Anonymous Large Social Game ELOs

For large social games such as Survivor where the primary mechanic is social interaction.
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Post Post #12 (isolation #0) » Sat Mar 04, 2017 8:52 pm

Post by xRECKONERx »

I think it should probably be done on an annual basis.

Anyone who played a game in the past year should be active.
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Post Post #24 (isolation #1) » Tue Mar 07, 2017 8:01 am

Post by xRECKONERx »

hey im top 5 again woo
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Post Post #38 (isolation #2) » Wed Mar 08, 2017 4:12 pm

Post by xRECKONERx »

In post 37, xofelf wrote:Yeaaaah, I dropped 300 points. I might be less happy with that than before. I guess I have to come out of retirement to fix this. Ugh.
/out forever
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Post Post #58 (isolation #3) » Thu Mar 09, 2017 3:30 pm

Post by xRECKONERx »

In post 46, BROseidon wrote:It heavily biases towards recent performance.
is this true? I thought elo basically took everything into affect equally
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Post Post #68 (isolation #4) » Sat Mar 11, 2017 2:34 pm

Post by xRECKONERx »

Yeah I think "as long as I get to FTC I will be happy!" or "as long as I make jury I will be happy!" are pretty toxic views on the game tbh and that has a lot to do with elo

perhaps if there was a way to scale elo to match the Survivor payouts?

Winner: $1,000,000
Runner-up, $100,000
$85,000
$70,000
$55,000
$45,000
$35,000
$27,500
$20,000
$15,000
$10,000
$7,500
$5,500
$4,500
$3,500
$2,500

that's what i found on a quick googling... so like, do that, but scale it based on # of players and keep track of "winnings" instead of elo?
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Post Post #69 (isolation #5) » Sat Mar 11, 2017 2:34 pm

Post by xRECKONERx »

look @ me having great ideas
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Post Post #71 (isolation #6) » Sat Mar 11, 2017 2:37 pm

Post by xRECKONERx »

like okay, winner gets a mil, runner up gets 100k

then you total up the remaining pool (~386k) and space it out over the rest of the contestants

then winning has a much higher value to this ranking system everyone pretends to not care about but secretly does
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Post Post #74 (isolation #7) » Sat Mar 11, 2017 2:41 pm

Post by xRECKONERx »

i mean i think it's cumulative

and i think that gives people a reason to go for the "big win" to boost their rankings

perhaps we could curtail it to more recent games and exclude older ones in order to eliminate the games from before anon survivor became like a "legit" thing

or yeah average winnings could work too

no reason we couldn't keep both statistics handy.

i think both avg winnings and cumulative winnings gives people more reason to play for a win than elo which gives a minor difference between winning and coming in 3rd
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Post Post #75 (isolation #8) » Sat Mar 11, 2017 2:42 pm

Post by xRECKONERx »

the biggest thing a more payout-based system brings to the table is that there's a large gap of winning >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2nd place >>>>>>> jury >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everything else
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Post Post #76 (isolation #9) » Sat Mar 11, 2017 2:46 pm

Post by xRECKONERx »

you'd basically have the FTC values set: 1mil, 100k, 85k

then jury 'Pool' would be about 275k

remaining "pre-jury" pool would be the remainder
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Post Post #94 (isolation #10) » Sat Mar 11, 2017 4:00 pm

Post by xRECKONERx »

In post 88, zoraster wrote:FWIW proportionally the awards are:

1 67.29%
2 6.73%
3 5.72%
4 4.71%
5 3.70%
6 3.03%
7 2.36%
8 1.85%
9 1.35%
10 1.01%
11 0.67%
12 0.50%
13 0.37%
14 0.30%
15 0.24%
16 0.17%
yeah this only works for 16 player games though

so it's more like: the top three payouts are locked in
then you have a certain % of the pool for jury and a certain % of the pool for prejury
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Post Post #97 (isolation #11) » Sat Mar 11, 2017 4:05 pm

Post by xRECKONERx »

winner should take a much larger % of the pool tho just based on how survivor works
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Post Post #99 (isolation #12) » Sat Mar 11, 2017 4:09 pm

Post by xRECKONERx »

idk like the whole thing is that "getting to FTC" should only be like half your game

the other half should come from WINNING a FTC

so like yes, the F3 should be rewarded higher for getting there than the next closest rankings
but the winner should smother the other two

i like survivor's proportions and im bad at math but if we could take the poker method but just apply it to non-FTC participants and keep the FTC pool the same as it is i think that'd be the best
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Post Post #128 (isolation #13) » Sat Mar 11, 2017 5:15 pm

Post by xRECKONERx »

In post 100, zoraster wrote:I think that a 10:1 ratio of first to second is totally inappropriate for a rolling determination of supposed skill. Like if you just want a fun "I wonder what our winnings would be if we used survivor" then sure. Keep it the same or very, very similar. But as a replacement or alternative measure to the elo system I think it'll be sorely lacking.
In post 101, hiplop wrote:in survivor often second place is a bad player
yeah this

second place (or third place) is often someone who was bad at the game and therefore got dragged there by someone else for the free win
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Post Post #130 (isolation #14) » Sat Mar 11, 2017 5:18 pm

Post by xRECKONERx »

See, I feel like this list is maybe better.

My whole point is that people think making FTC is enough and I'd love a ranking system that weighted wins harder to try and accommodate for that but I'm not sure how to really do that.
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Post Post #133 (isolation #15) » Sat Mar 11, 2017 5:20 pm

Post by xRECKONERx »

another thing: i think active rankings should be a limited time period vs inactive/lifetime rankings?

p.edit: not sure that's a wrong thing though.

idk
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Post Post #135 (isolation #16) » Sat Mar 11, 2017 5:22 pm

Post by xRECKONERx »

in this $$$ system, top 5 of all time is:

snakes
betch
reck
cc
jal

in the elo system, top 5 of all time is:

snakes
SiW
STD
BPC
Reck

i kind of feel like the first system is maybe more indicative of survivor history than the latter system?

and given the closeness of most of the $ amounts, one win is enough to catapult someone into the upper echelon, which is what i think is important
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Post Post #136 (isolation #17) » Sat Mar 11, 2017 5:25 pm

Post by xRECKONERx »

meh money does something win % doesnt because like

ive won 3 times
ive played 12
3/12 aka 25% winrate doesnt look great

esp compared to bella winning 2/5
or jess winning 1/2

but when you consider that out of my 9 losses, 4/9 involved making merge it looks better?

i dunno i think $$$ amount is probably more indicative of someone's historical impact at least. like, even in the scenario where someone played 5 games, if they're placing in the bottom every time, that's gonna be overshadowed by one person making jury one time, right?
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Post Post #137 (isolation #18) » Sat Mar 11, 2017 5:27 pm

Post by xRECKONERx »

elo gives you a "current" snapshot of the playerbase
$$$ gives you a historical long-term snapshot
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Post Post #139 (isolation #19) » Sat Mar 11, 2017 5:27 pm

Post by xRECKONERx »

right, which i think is super important too?
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Post Post #142 (isolation #20) » Sat Mar 11, 2017 5:29 pm

Post by xRECKONERx »

Then list by total number of wins. Your merges and other finishes OTHER than your wins are largely irrelevant to your total $ won.
i sorta disagree

i dunno i think there's a system in which we say, okay

making FTC, there's x % of total value tied up in that
making jury, there's x % of total value tied up in that
then not making jury has a smaller value than either of the others
Last edited by xRECKONERx on Sat Mar 11, 2017 5:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Post #144 (isolation #21) » Sat Mar 11, 2017 5:30 pm

Post by xRECKONERx »

like if we list by total wins i look like im on par w/ snakes and betch and theyre very clearly above me in a big way
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Post Post #145 (isolation #22) » Sat Mar 11, 2017 5:31 pm

Post by xRECKONERx »

In post 143, Xalxe wrote:y'all take this shit so serious, man

It's a game, just have fun, find some idols, get your allies voted out, go home mid-jury, like the cool kids do!
can we skip past the part where people act like not giving a fuck is cool bc idk seems fruitless
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Post Post #148 (isolation #23) » Sat Mar 11, 2017 5:37 pm

Post by xRECKONERx »

yeah but that 7% tho
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Post Post #152 (isolation #24) » Sat Mar 11, 2017 5:46 pm

Post by xRECKONERx »

stop it i can only get so erect!
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Post Post #157 (isolation #25) » Sat Mar 11, 2017 7:10 pm

Post by xRECKONERx »

In post 154, hiplop wrote:reck if it helps i think you suck ass
In post 152, xRECKONERx wrote:stop it i can only get so erect!
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Post Post #168 (isolation #26) » Sun Mar 12, 2017 2:44 pm

Post by xRECKONERx »

well yeah.

but I think in general winning has become kind of dulled in comparison to just making it to FTC
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Post Post #170 (isolation #27) » Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:55 pm

Post by xRECKONERx »

nah see the difference is that the big gap between winning and 2nd/3rd/whatever place via the money system is big enough that it makes the difference between 7th and 9th or 11th not that big of a deal, value-wise

with elo it means the person who wins just get 1 more match win over the person who comes in 2nd
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Post Post #176 (isolation #28) » Sun Mar 12, 2017 5:06 pm

Post by xRECKONERx »

idk i think first vs jury vs pre-jury is a better paradigm
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Post Post #181 (isolation #29) » Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:34 am

Post by xRECKONERx »

that's not a bad thought
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Post Post #188 (isolation #30) » Mon Mar 13, 2017 6:33 am

Post by xRECKONERx »

fan fave 100k is good but we'd probably need to only do that in games where IDs arent revealed idk
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Post Post #190 (isolation #31) » Mon Mar 13, 2017 2:56 pm

Post by xRECKONERx »

?
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Post Post #192 (isolation #32) » Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:09 pm

Post by xRECKONERx »

oh no i wasn't being sarcastic? i said

"esp compared to bella winning 2/5
or jess winning 1/2"
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Post Post #214 (isolation #33) » Sat Mar 06, 2021 6:36 pm

Post by xRECKONERx »

In post 24, xRECKONERx wrote:hey im top 5 again woo
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