Anonymous Large Social Game ELOs

For large social games such as Survivor where the primary mechanic is social interaction.
Skelda
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Post Post #45  (isolation #0)  » Thu Mar 09, 2017 8:28 pm

So wait, does this system really reward recent successes/punish recent failures? Xofelf has gotten 2nd like 6 times, it doesn't seem right that one 25th place would make her drop so much.

It isn't like an average of all the times you played, it seems like the order you play them matters.

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Post Post #115  (isolation #1)  » Sat Mar 11, 2017 10:46 pm

I dunno, don't most people want to win a FTC regardless? I don't think Elo is dominant motivating factor for people. Like, the only time that I think about Elo during a game is at the beginning when I hope that I survive long enough that my Elo doesn't put me at the very bottom.

And would most people be happy with second place? I guess second place finishers always seem happy post-game, but I think getting second seems terrible. But if you're the kind of person who's happy with second, you probably are going to be happy with winning 100,000 fake dollars.

I think the money thing is fine apart from that though. I don't like certain games requiring money to be spent in order to play though if that was a serious suggestion, that's going to incentivize playing it safe even more. Like, if there's a game that I want to play in the near future that costs a little more than I have, I might be super careful at the beginning of the game until I reach the spot that gives me the money that I need. It just seems like it would add a motivating factor to games that's completely external and unnecessary.

The main problem with all of these rankings systems is that they are going to punish people for doing poorly and almost publicly shame them. Like, I didn't make a Jury my first three games, and my attitude going into all of them was just that I needed to make the Jury to prove that I could, you know? There's something really humiliating about being super low on a ranked list when in my opinion placement doesn't necessarily indicate ability or how well you actually played. One of the difficult things about feeling integrated into this community for me was the Elos because it's tough to feel welcome when the numbers are saying that you suck.

But I get why you guys like doing rankings and going through the numbers. I just really think the emphasis should on everyone just doing their best in the current game rather than trying to improve their Elo/money ranking. Feeling previous failures weigh down on you in the middle of a game isn't fun.

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Post Post #119  (isolation #2)  » Sat Mar 11, 2017 10:55 pm

In post 117, Vijarada wrote:the money pay-in isn't serious, skelda. i'm pretty sure it's a reference to a dumb website called tengaged.

should non-anon survivor games be included in the payout system or not???? because snakes (fuck's SAKE) won one of those, and SIW lost one of those.


Oh my god, that website is so stupid! I didn't get it though, take back what I said about that.

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Post Post #121  (isolation #3)  » Sat Mar 11, 2017 11:00 pm

In post 116, zoraster wrote:People like the feeling that their performances have some permanence and like if they do well it's not forgotten in ten seconds. That's particularly true of a game that's anonymous where even talking about it knowing that Reck is Hermione and SensFan is Juno we refer to them as Hermione and Juno.


That makes sense, but at the same time, people don't like feeling like their failures have permanence and if our goal is to make people be willing to take risks and not just float along, introducing ranking systems isn't going to do it. I think the people who are doing well in these games are generally going to want to return anyway and also are a lot less likely to be motivated by Elo I'd think. I don't think the idea of maintaining a high Elo has the same weight to it that getting rid of a low one does.

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Post Post #158  (isolation #4)  » Sun Mar 12, 2017 1:34 am

In post 155, Haschel Cedricson wrote:Just keep two lists, one with high-payout dollar amounts for the winner and one with a narrower band of Survivorpoints for everyone.


How many ranking systems do we need? lol

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Post Post #169  (isolation #5)  » Sun Mar 12, 2017 9:33 pm

In post 166, Shadoweh wrote:The comments about second and third place people usually being less active players or goats that can't win..
Well yeah but on the show they still end up with more money. I think that's why you even get moments where people on the losing side of an alliance will be like
"okay but can you at least vote the asshole that betrayed us out before us?" Because it does more then just put them a place lower, they actually get less Survivordollars.

It never compares to the BIG PAYOUT. So the big players still want to go big or go home. But it means the players that aren't likely to win still have incentive to place high.
(I feel like this is the opposite sentiment to what you guys want to express but it's also how irl survivor is, isn't it? The F3 goat still gets more money then the BIG PLAYER in 4th.)


This is exactly it. All ranking systems are going to have the opposite affect of what people want unless they are just counting wins, because they make going out earlier so much worse than going out later that people aren't going to make a big move at 9 or 11 that could send them home in an early spot and hardly give them any money. And in general I think most people do want to win, but realize that with the way MS Juries are it's hard to predict what they're going to do and the best way to win is to get to FTC. I mean, Juno really proves that, even though she didn't win if any of the Hermione votes switch to Dan she does.

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Post Post #195  (isolation #6)  » Wed Mar 15, 2017 12:00 am

I would actually like having a static payout for first and then variable payouts for 2nd/3rd depending on how many Jury votes they got.

I just wouldn't want people intentionally casting Jury votes in the minority to influence that, you should vote for who you want to win.


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