Anonymous Large Social Game ELOs

For large social games such as Survivor where the primary mechanic is social interaction.
xRECKONERx
GD is my Best Man
 
User avatar
Joined: March 15, 2009
Location: Bull City
Pronoun: He

Post Post #12  (isolation #0)  » Sun Mar 05, 2017 2:52 am

I think it should probably be done on an annual basis.

Anyone who played a game in the past year should be active.
get to know a reckoner

#EmeraldProud

xRECKONERx
GD is my Best Man
 
User avatar
Joined: March 15, 2009
Location: Bull City
Pronoun: He

Post Post #24  (isolation #1)  » Tue Mar 07, 2017 2:01 pm

hey im top 5 again woo
get to know a reckoner

#EmeraldProud

xRECKONERx
GD is my Best Man
 
User avatar
Joined: March 15, 2009
Location: Bull City
Pronoun: He

Post Post #38  (isolation #2)  » Wed Mar 08, 2017 10:12 pm

In post 37, xofelf wrote:Yeaaaah, I dropped 300 points. I might be less happy with that than before. I guess I have to come out of retirement to fix this. Ugh.

/out forever
get to know a reckoner

#EmeraldProud

xRECKONERx
GD is my Best Man
 
User avatar
Joined: March 15, 2009
Location: Bull City
Pronoun: He

Post Post #58  (isolation #3)  » Thu Mar 09, 2017 9:30 pm

In post 46, BROseidon wrote:It heavily biases towards recent performance.

is this true? I thought elo basically took everything into affect equally
get to know a reckoner

#EmeraldProud

xRECKONERx
GD is my Best Man
 
User avatar
Joined: March 15, 2009
Location: Bull City
Pronoun: He

Post Post #68  (isolation #4)  » Sat Mar 11, 2017 8:34 pm

Yeah I think "as long as I get to FTC I will be happy!" or "as long as I make jury I will be happy!" are pretty toxic views on the game tbh and that has a lot to do with elo

perhaps if there was a way to scale elo to match the Survivor payouts?

Winner: $1,000,000
Runner-up, $100,000
$85,000
$70,000
$55,000
$45,000
$35,000
$27,500
$20,000
$15,000
$10,000
$7,500
$5,500
$4,500
$3,500
$2,500

that's what i found on a quick googling... so like, do that, but scale it based on # of players and keep track of "winnings" instead of elo?
get to know a reckoner

#EmeraldProud

xRECKONERx
GD is my Best Man
 
User avatar
Joined: March 15, 2009
Location: Bull City
Pronoun: He

Post Post #69  (isolation #5)  » Sat Mar 11, 2017 8:34 pm

look @ me having great ideas
get to know a reckoner

#EmeraldProud

xRECKONERx
GD is my Best Man
 
User avatar
Joined: March 15, 2009
Location: Bull City
Pronoun: He

Post Post #71  (isolation #6)  » Sat Mar 11, 2017 8:37 pm

like okay, winner gets a mil, runner up gets 100k

then you total up the remaining pool (~386k) and space it out over the rest of the contestants

then winning has a much higher value to this ranking system everyone pretends to not care about but secretly does
get to know a reckoner

#EmeraldProud

xRECKONERx
GD is my Best Man
 
User avatar
Joined: March 15, 2009
Location: Bull City
Pronoun: He

Post Post #74  (isolation #7)  » Sat Mar 11, 2017 8:41 pm

i mean i think it's cumulative

and i think that gives people a reason to go for the "big win" to boost their rankings

perhaps we could curtail it to more recent games and exclude older ones in order to eliminate the games from before anon survivor became like a "legit" thing

or yeah average winnings could work too

no reason we couldn't keep both statistics handy.

i think both avg winnings and cumulative winnings gives people more reason to play for a win than elo which gives a minor difference between winning and coming in 3rd
get to know a reckoner

#EmeraldProud

xRECKONERx
GD is my Best Man
 
User avatar
Joined: March 15, 2009
Location: Bull City
Pronoun: He

Post Post #75  (isolation #8)  » Sat Mar 11, 2017 8:42 pm

the biggest thing a more payout-based system brings to the table is that there's a large gap of winning >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2nd place >>>>>>> jury >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everything else
get to know a reckoner

#EmeraldProud

xRECKONERx
GD is my Best Man
 
User avatar
Joined: March 15, 2009
Location: Bull City
Pronoun: He

Post Post #76  (isolation #9)  » Sat Mar 11, 2017 8:46 pm

you'd basically have the FTC values set: 1mil, 100k, 85k

then jury 'Pool' would be about 275k

remaining "pre-jury" pool would be the remainder
get to know a reckoner

#EmeraldProud

xRECKONERx
GD is my Best Man
 
User avatar
Joined: March 15, 2009
Location: Bull City
Pronoun: He

Post Post #94  (isolation #10)  » Sat Mar 11, 2017 10:00 pm

In post 88, zoraster wrote:FWIW proportionally the awards are:

1 67.29%
2 6.73%
3 5.72%
4 4.71%
5 3.70%
6 3.03%
7 2.36%
8 1.85%
9 1.35%
10 1.01%
11 0.67%
12 0.50%
13 0.37%
14 0.30%
15 0.24%
16 0.17%

yeah this only works for 16 player games though

so it's more like: the top three payouts are locked in
then you have a certain % of the pool for jury and a certain % of the pool for prejury
get to know a reckoner

#EmeraldProud

xRECKONERx
GD is my Best Man
 
User avatar
Joined: March 15, 2009
Location: Bull City
Pronoun: He

Post Post #97  (isolation #11)  » Sat Mar 11, 2017 10:05 pm

winner should take a much larger % of the pool tho just based on how survivor works
get to know a reckoner

#EmeraldProud

xRECKONERx
GD is my Best Man
 
User avatar
Joined: March 15, 2009
Location: Bull City
Pronoun: He

Post Post #99  (isolation #12)  » Sat Mar 11, 2017 10:09 pm

idk like the whole thing is that "getting to FTC" should only be like half your game

the other half should come from WINNING a FTC

so like yes, the F3 should be rewarded higher for getting there than the next closest rankings
but the winner should smother the other two

i like survivor's proportions and im bad at math but if we could take the poker method but just apply it to non-FTC participants and keep the FTC pool the same as it is i think that'd be the best
get to know a reckoner

#EmeraldProud

xRECKONERx
GD is my Best Man
 
User avatar
Joined: March 15, 2009
Location: Bull City
Pronoun: He

Post Post #128  (isolation #13)  » Sat Mar 11, 2017 11:15 pm

In post 100, zoraster wrote:I think that a 10:1 ratio of first to second is totally inappropriate for a rolling determination of supposed skill. Like if you just want a fun "I wonder what our winnings would be if we used survivor" then sure. Keep it the same or very, very similar. But as a replacement or alternative measure to the elo system I think it'll be sorely lacking.

In post 101, hiplop wrote:in survivor often second place is a bad player

yeah this

second place (or third place) is often someone who was bad at the game and therefore got dragged there by someone else for the free win
get to know a reckoner

#EmeraldProud

xRECKONERx
GD is my Best Man
 
User avatar
Joined: March 15, 2009
Location: Bull City
Pronoun: He

Post Post #130  (isolation #14)  » Sat Mar 11, 2017 11:18 pm

See, I feel like this list is maybe better.

My whole point is that people think making FTC is enough and I'd love a ranking system that weighted wins harder to try and accommodate for that but I'm not sure how to really do that.
get to know a reckoner

#EmeraldProud

xRECKONERx
GD is my Best Man
 
User avatar
Joined: March 15, 2009
Location: Bull City
Pronoun: He

Post Post #133  (isolation #15)  » Sat Mar 11, 2017 11:20 pm

another thing: i think active rankings should be a limited time period vs inactive/lifetime rankings?

p.edit: not sure that's a wrong thing though.

idk
get to know a reckoner

#EmeraldProud

xRECKONERx
GD is my Best Man
 
User avatar
Joined: March 15, 2009
Location: Bull City
Pronoun: He

Post Post #135  (isolation #16)  » Sat Mar 11, 2017 11:22 pm

in this $$$ system, top 5 of all time is:

snakes
betch
reck
cc
jal

in the elo system, top 5 of all time is:

snakes
SiW
STD
BPC
Reck

i kind of feel like the first system is maybe more indicative of survivor history than the latter system?

and given the closeness of most of the $ amounts, one win is enough to catapult someone into the upper echelon, which is what i think is important
get to know a reckoner

#EmeraldProud

xRECKONERx
GD is my Best Man
 
User avatar
Joined: March 15, 2009
Location: Bull City
Pronoun: He

Post Post #136  (isolation #17)  » Sat Mar 11, 2017 11:25 pm

meh money does something win % doesnt because like

ive won 3 times
ive played 12
3/12 aka 25% winrate doesnt look great

esp compared to bella winning 2/5
or jess winning 1/2

but when you consider that out of my 9 losses, 4/9 involved making merge it looks better?

i dunno i think $$$ amount is probably more indicative of someone's historical impact at least. like, even in the scenario where someone played 5 games, if they're placing in the bottom every time, that's gonna be overshadowed by one person making jury one time, right?
get to know a reckoner

#EmeraldProud

xRECKONERx
GD is my Best Man
 
User avatar
Joined: March 15, 2009
Location: Bull City
Pronoun: He

Post Post #137  (isolation #18)  » Sat Mar 11, 2017 11:27 pm

elo gives you a "current" snapshot of the playerbase
$$$ gives you a historical long-term snapshot
get to know a reckoner

#EmeraldProud

xRECKONERx
GD is my Best Man
 
User avatar
Joined: March 15, 2009
Location: Bull City
Pronoun: He

Post Post #139  (isolation #19)  » Sat Mar 11, 2017 11:27 pm

right, which i think is super important too?
get to know a reckoner

#EmeraldProud

xRECKONERx
GD is my Best Man
 
User avatar
Joined: March 15, 2009
Location: Bull City
Pronoun: He

Post Post #142  (isolation #20)  » Sat Mar 11, 2017 11:29 pm

Then list by total number of wins. Your merges and other finishes OTHER than your wins are largely irrelevant to your total $ won.

i sorta disagree

i dunno i think there's a system in which we say, okay

making FTC, there's x % of total value tied up in that
making jury, there's x % of total value tied up in that
then not making jury has a smaller value than either of the others
Last edited by xRECKONERx on Sat Mar 11, 2017 11:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
get to know a reckoner

#EmeraldProud

xRECKONERx
GD is my Best Man
 
User avatar
Joined: March 15, 2009
Location: Bull City
Pronoun: He

Post Post #144  (isolation #21)  » Sat Mar 11, 2017 11:30 pm

like if we list by total wins i look like im on par w/ snakes and betch and theyre very clearly above me in a big way
get to know a reckoner

#EmeraldProud

xRECKONERx
GD is my Best Man
 
User avatar
Joined: March 15, 2009
Location: Bull City
Pronoun: He

Post Post #145  (isolation #22)  » Sat Mar 11, 2017 11:31 pm

In post 143, Xalxe wrote:y'all take this shit so serious, man

It's a game, just have fun, find some idols, get your allies voted out, go home mid-jury, like the cool kids do!

can we skip past the part where people act like not giving a fuck is cool bc idk seems fruitless
get to know a reckoner

#EmeraldProud

xRECKONERx
GD is my Best Man
 
User avatar
Joined: March 15, 2009
Location: Bull City
Pronoun: He

Post Post #148  (isolation #23)  » Sat Mar 11, 2017 11:37 pm

yeah but that 7% tho
get to know a reckoner

#EmeraldProud

xRECKONERx
GD is my Best Man
 
User avatar
Joined: March 15, 2009
Location: Bull City
Pronoun: He

Post Post #152  (isolation #24)  » Sat Mar 11, 2017 11:46 pm

stop it i can only get so erect!
get to know a reckoner

#EmeraldProud

xRECKONERx
GD is my Best Man
 
User avatar
Joined: March 15, 2009
Location: Bull City
Pronoun: He

Post Post #157  (isolation #25)  » Sun Mar 12, 2017 1:10 am

In post 154, hiplop wrote:reck if it helps i think you suck ass

In post 152, xRECKONERx wrote:stop it i can only get so erect!
get to know a reckoner

#EmeraldProud

xRECKONERx
GD is my Best Man
 
User avatar
Joined: March 15, 2009
Location: Bull City
Pronoun: He

Post Post #168  (isolation #26)  » Sun Mar 12, 2017 8:44 pm

well yeah.

but I think in general winning has become kind of dulled in comparison to just making it to FTC
get to know a reckoner

#EmeraldProud

xRECKONERx
GD is my Best Man
 
User avatar
Joined: March 15, 2009
Location: Bull City
Pronoun: He

Post Post #170  (isolation #27)  » Sun Mar 12, 2017 9:55 pm

nah see the difference is that the big gap between winning and 2nd/3rd/whatever place via the money system is big enough that it makes the difference between 7th and 9th or 11th not that big of a deal, value-wise

with elo it means the person who wins just get 1 more match win over the person who comes in 2nd
get to know a reckoner

#EmeraldProud

xRECKONERx
GD is my Best Man
 
User avatar
Joined: March 15, 2009
Location: Bull City
Pronoun: He

Post Post #176  (isolation #28)  » Sun Mar 12, 2017 11:06 pm

idk i think first vs jury vs pre-jury is a better paradigm
get to know a reckoner

#EmeraldProud

xRECKONERx
GD is my Best Man
 
User avatar
Joined: March 15, 2009
Location: Bull City
Pronoun: He

Post Post #181  (isolation #29)  » Mon Mar 13, 2017 9:34 am

that's not a bad thought
get to know a reckoner

#EmeraldProud

xRECKONERx
GD is my Best Man
 
User avatar
Joined: March 15, 2009
Location: Bull City
Pronoun: He

Post Post #188  (isolation #30)  » Mon Mar 13, 2017 12:33 pm

fan fave 100k is good but we'd probably need to only do that in games where IDs arent revealed idk
get to know a reckoner

#EmeraldProud

xRECKONERx
GD is my Best Man
 
User avatar
Joined: March 15, 2009
Location: Bull City
Pronoun: He

Post Post #190  (isolation #31)  » Mon Mar 13, 2017 8:56 pm

?
get to know a reckoner

#EmeraldProud

xRECKONERx
GD is my Best Man
 
User avatar
Joined: March 15, 2009
Location: Bull City
Pronoun: He

Post Post #192  (isolation #32)  » Mon Mar 13, 2017 9:09 pm

oh no i wasn't being sarcastic? i said

"esp compared to bella winning 2/5
or jess winning 1/2"
get to know a reckoner

#EmeraldProud


[ + ]

Return to Large Social Games