Newbie 1781 - Game over

[Loopdan]

I skimmed this game before asking to replace in. Gut was that the team was Accountant/rb. Was pleasantly surprised by my role pm (not scum).

Nobody should do anything other than vote rb or destro until they both claim BP or not BP.

VOTE: rb

[Loopdan]

town-lean

[Loopdan]

Dammit. I just said nobody should do anything until rb and destro claim BP or not BP and then I did something.

[Loopdan]

I don't know how you people got more than half-way through day1 using the BP claim strategy without forcing every player to claim. Several players in this game should know better (Accountant included).

[Loopdan]

I have ZERO qualms about lynching either rb or destro if they continue to avoid making a BP or not BP claim.

[Loopdan]

VOTE: 270 is the scummiest post I have read in a long long time. I'm not moving my vote off of rb until he claims, but that was terrible.

[Loopdan]

270

VOTE: rb

[Loopdan]

Tbh I've never seen the BP claim thing Loopdan? In fact, how is this suddenly a thing you're insistent on when all of our previous newbie games together you haven't even suggested it at all?

Because it's a new strategy that was just recently proposed by RC and literally nobody has been able to show how it doesn't benefit town.

Allowing everyone else to claim not BP while you sat there not talking about it

at all

is very scummy. Now refusing to claim BP or not BP is even worse. If you are scum you have the benefit of hearing the claims of others without being forced to limit your own claims. It preserves your ability to fake-claim later.

You have until the end of your next post to either do the claim or satisfactorily explain how refusing to do so benefits town more than you claiming BP/no-BP.

[Loopdan]

I actually can't stand mechanical-clearing people and think it's a wholly shit way to teach newbies to play because matrix6 is designed to be a simplified manner in which they can learn how to scumhunt, not a setup to be exploited to try and get a win. Honestly the

Get off your high horse and play to your wincon.

But maybe you are...

[Loopdan]

First proposed in-game in Newbie 1775:

So, over the last few months while I was not playing Mafia I have been working on strategies to up town's winrate in this setup and since I have finally rolled town I am going to put them into action.
The correct play at the beginning of D1 in this setup is for the 1-Shot Bulletproof, if any, to claim. This helps town immensely in numerous setups. Why am I advocating this?

1) It is fucking insane for scum to try to claim 1-shot BP in this situation. It is an insane risk play which forces a 1v1 in 5/6 setups and gets minor towncred in 1/6.
2) If the setup is Roleblocker/Jailkeeper/1-Shot BP, it's easy for the BP claim to be disbelieved. The claim coming at the start of the game makes it far more trustworthy.
3) If the setup is Tracker/1-Shot BP/Goon, the Tracker knows that there is no doc and can be a lot safer on claiming. Note that mathematically the correct play is to target the outed tracker if the other PR is not known; so little potential gain is made here.
4) If the setup is Tracker/Doc/Goon, a living tracker will know by the lack of a BP claim that there is a doctor. He can then claim safely and be doctor protected the entire game. Which sucks because I'm going to get guaranteed nightkilled but I'll get over it.

Since the 1-Shot Bulletproof doesn't actually net town a mislynch by being hit it is not actually specifically valuable for it to bait the hit.
This does come at the cost of narrowing down the game possibilities for scum: but I believe that the reward is well worth the price.

[Loopdan]

I like how you're trying to distance yourself from scumbuddy lemon. I'd like for us townies to lynch rb first today so that newbscum lemon has to decide what to do with his night actions himself, rather than having experiencedscum rb find a good target.

^Fykus gets it.

[Loopdan]

@Tykus-- You nailed it. rb can disagree with the strategy. That's fine. But it's not ok to watch everyone else claim if you disagree with it and you are town and you say nothing to stop it from progressing. There is no town motivation in that.

[Loopdan]

@rb-- I pretty much agree philosophically with everything you said in 305. But I'm still playing to my wincon.

[Loopdan]

And you shoulda brought all this up before you were pressed to claim.

[Loopdan]

Sure there's a chance. But the most damning thing is rb's failure to speak up when others were claiming prior. Often in Newbie games the experienced players go out of their way to make sure the ne'er players don't claim unnecessarily. If he was really unfamiliar with this new day1 claiming strategy, and he was town, I would expect town!rb to make a ruckus about this much easier in the game when everyone was dropping their BP claims.

[Loopdan]

That's a reply to 311

[Loopdan]

@Fykus-- I am 100% on board with your thinking here.

[Loopdan]

7/9 slots had claimed before I ever showed up.
Try again.

[Loopdan]

7/9 slots had claimed before I ever showed up.
Try again.

lolno

243
253
255

lolyes

[Loopdan]

Destro dies without a BP/notBP claim.

VOTE: Destro

[Loopdan]

@ICrb-- Given the situation we are now in, and with no BP claim, should everyone claim or no claim tracker? I think tracker claims should generally follow everyone no-claiming BP, as if there is a tracker we have tracker-doc and then the doc knows who to protect at night. But things have changed now and we are four days from deadline. Now I'm thinking we shouldn't have tracker (if there is one) claim. Your thoughts?

To everyone: Do not claim or even hint at

any

power roles you may have. Also do not even hint that you

don't

have a power role.

@rb-- I'd also like your thoughts on Creature.

[Loopdan]

Aatami, Loopdan, do you actually scumread Destro/Pyra or are you voting him because they didn't BP/not BP claim earlier?

The latter. Forgot to move it.

VOTE: Lemon

[Loopdan]

@Creature-- Your thoughts on my IC question to rb above?

[Loopdan]

@rb
Please answer my question in 381.

[Loopdan]

@Creature-- Why does it bother you that I voted lemon instead of another wagon? You've brought it up twice now.

[Loopdan]

Fykus=town lean
Destro=scum lean
I'm voting lemon.

[Loopdan]

We are getting close to deadline so we really need to start consolidating votes.

[Loopdan]

VOTE: rb

Are you going to reply to 381?

[Loopdan]

Guys rb already no-claimed BP.

@Creature-- Why?

[Loopdan]

Time to explain some stuff.

With no BP claims we should have proceeded to tracker claims, so if there is a tracker there is also a doc who can protect him/her. The doc would not claim. If there is no tracker, there would be no more claims at all. This is the continuation of this new BP claims day1 strategy.

However, Fykus made it very obvious he is a PR in 325, which threw a wrench in the idea of making a tracker (if it exists) claim. Because then we have two outed PRs. That's why I asked rb in 381 if we should do tracker claims. There is no doubt that rb saw Fykus claim in 325; it was directed at him. I had to ask rb two more times about 381 before he finally answered.

[Loopdan]

rb's play has not benefitted town. He delayed and confused town. He is a great town player and that has not been shown this game. Town!rb would never have let the game state devolve to this chaos.

That's why I'm pretty sure he's scum here.

[Loopdan]

He feels unfocused and unengaged like he was at Micro 688.

I replaced in and instantly changed the focus of the game to finally finish the BP claims. As it was, the half-way done BP claims only benefitted scum. How is that unfocused and unengaged?

[Loopdan]

There are nine hours left until deadline and we have four players not voting. That's not real helpful.

If we aren't lynching rb then it should be lemon, but I really feel good about an rb lynch right now.

[Loopdan]

Agreed. I've seen scum!rb give up before.

[Loopdan]

It should be obvious, but if we have a doc they should be protecting Fykus tonight regardless of this flip.

[Loopdan]

Also Creature can you do me a favor and post before the thread is locked if you get here? I'd like to know if you made an effort to stop by before deadline.

[Loopdan]

VOTE: pyra

lol

[Loopdan]

There's literally no reason not to quick hammer here.

Perfect town win in a Newbie. That doesnt happen often.

[Loopdan]

I'm a bit surprised Creature didn't townread me after I replaced in and exposed rb.

[Loopdan]

We need one more vote.

@Fykus-- lol I softed doc?

[Loopdan]

"pleasantly surprised" was referring to him thinking accountant was scum I'm 99% sure

Yes.

I'm not doc.

[Loopdan]

[Loopdan]

I'll say again that I agree with rb about the BP claims strategy not being great for newbies. But I'll use it in every game until the setup changes. Wincon and all that.

@Huntress, thanks for modding a clean game.

@Pyra, I think you played fine. Maybe the best of anybody in a scum slot this game.

[Loopdan]

@mhsmith, I agree that it shouldn't be a major discussion point, but in this particular game 7/9 had claimed not-BP and the remaining players (who were both scum, btw) were not being pressured to claim. If I hadn't pushed it and made it the focus of discussion the second half of day1 then scum would have received all the benefit and none of the downsides of the BP claims.