Civilization Mafia [GAME OVER]

[Gorkington]

im pretty sure its me you want to maybe lynch.

[Gorkington]

The info isn't all that useful, and we can make people claim it anyway if we really want to know.

how do you get a dead person to claim things

[Gorkington]

No. Let's not give scum that information thanks.

convince me.

[Gorkington]

im not arguing to vote yea.
dont be difficult

[Gorkington]

@KidAmn why didn't you read the game over the night?

nobody tell alisae that i havent read anything but OP.

================

@ali, so youre basically saying that you think that scum isnt going to have any idea whats been built so far
and that you think that the build history of players is going to affect that significantly?
the only negative i can really see there is that scum might have a better idea of what kind of stuff they have available to build, but then so does town, no? seems less like a general boon to scum and more like a general boon to all players if im understanding it correctly.

on the other end, if we get a scum flip are we not going to be getting information on what scum has been trying to build so far this game? do you think that information is potentially valuable or no?

also, dont read above the equal signs.

[Gorkington]

til people think im lazy
):

i need someone committed to the nay-saying cause to fight me in my face please.

[Gorkington]

im not really sure why you thought that would work?
:/

Because I have made a PV argument people ignored and a Nero one showing it is his scum meta.

link me up.
especially for the PV argument.
pls and ty.

[Gorkington]

:/ not forced at all, who did you replace?

:/

[Gorkington]

cloud gets my second ISOdive slot.

[Gorkington]

:/ your pred was a scumfuck too when he replaced-in

oh god man i wish the slot i'd replaced hadnt done that!
:/
shit!

[Gorkington]

its funny because your pred did exactly what you are doing rn

:/

Even if it blocked the kill, you dont count it as a guilty inb4 i get fosed for saying this.

fos.

[Gorkington]

i dont think theres been a game where i havent been obvtown.

im not too worried bud.
(:
[ :/ ]

[Gorkington]

implying you obvtown as scum

im just that good

[Gorkington]

@leon

, i dont really know the context of the vote, i have no completed games with gin and dont know what his thought process was in this game.
it would be a pretty pointless exercise for me to try and justify his actions because the only thing that i can really bring to the table is knowing that they came from town.

[Gorkington]

why is that useful though?
my opinion is inherently skewed in a way thats literally just going to be me saying "yup thats town because reason because i know its true".
theres no objectivity there.
theres also that i feel like its a waste of time to iso my own slot, figure out what the mindframe was, just to justify actions that i will never be able to fully represent properly because i dont know what he was thinking.
you would rather me do that than read other people and give thoughts there?

[Gorkington]

is it worth having everyone check in before we hammer this?

p-edit: i have no idea what youre trying to say.

[Gorkington]

You can do both

im not going to.
deal with it.

you can either choose for me to wiffle around in my own slot's iso to pointlessly justify his behavior or i can play the game, actually give a shit and drive gamestate.

but actually you dont get to choose im doing the latter.

[Gorkington]

VOTE: leon

woah woah woah.
i thought i was your main bitch.

whats the deal

[Gorkington]

can someone explain the leon wagon to me like im 12

bonus points for tangible point form reasons.

[Gorkington]

Leon's Sondam vote screamed scum!Leon and the way he tried to wash his hands off that vote was really optimistic and scummy.

okay, well, i'll come back and reread that part of his iso when my head is a littleless murky.

do you have thoughts on his play before that point in the meantime?

Like his ISO is just bad, he's doing nothing but coasting, he's awful in VCA, his jump on the Sondam wagon was obvscum. I have nfc how that Sondam wagon even happened that was the most fucking disgusting thing I've seen all game.

possible that im not seeing coasting when im ISO-ing but overall it seemed like at worst, he was maybe disengaged at times, yeah? what makes his play disengaged scum vs disengaged town?

do you have vca posted somewhere?

Something about blending in I think.

do you agree with this?

[Gorkington]

D3 his push on Brian came off as manipulative. He was pushing Brian for a hammer when that slot is in general super fucking towny. Brian Skies replaced Drixx D1 who claimed he was going to built pryamids and Brian replaced that slot. Brian has done other things to make me townread him so....Yeah.

are there specific posts from his push there that you were reading as scummy?
can you talk a little bit about them if so?
if not i can stare at those posts some more cause i was admittedly getting a little lazy at that point in his ISO.

beyond his reads/votes, do you think his posting is scummy?
like.
i saw in my leon ISOdive that the two of you just finished a scumgame so im assuming you would have a little bit of a grasp on how he likes to play as scum, yes?
is this within your expectations of his scumgame or no?
and what do you make of his strong townread on you? is that something that makes sense to you based on your play here vs that game?

[Gorkington]

can i get the fake news instead

[Gorkington]

is that the fake news?

[Gorkington]

He's playing to his scumgame.

do you have experience with his towngame?

yes

its going to be fun to revisit this stuff when i start spewing town on the thread.
(:

[Gorkington]

Whats stopping you?

oh dangit are my posts not seeming very town?
hm.
i'll try and readjust.
do you have any suggestions for me?

[Gorkington]

youre leaning town.
seems like youre angry.
and frustration usually builds unreliable reads.
i would suggest sitting on it and coming back to it because im not really going to find anything compelling in what youre pushing there atm.

[Gorkington]

thats not very constructive!

[Gorkington]

Gorkington trying out the too scum to be scum approach? Hows it working out gorker?

i feel like you should know this isnt true.

You just replaced in and don't seem to have a read on me, could I not be scum pretending to scumhunt with useless questions?

theres a pretty clear difference between a single tedious question and someone dropping a ton of useless questions.
theres also that im not really sure why youre implying that i didnt care about your interactions with me when youre pretty clearly the first person ive taken time to look at this game?

"Why would scum keep doing it if they're getting SR'd for it?"

how many times have you seen scum actually try to do something like what youre describing as an actual strategy vs people generally kidding around?
im looking at your 2010 joindate right now, btw.

Forced. How do you know that Ali's reads might be unreliable, if you haven't read the game?

did you even read the post that youre referring to here?
i said i didnt trust ali's nancy read SPECIFICALLY because of how frustrated he was.
how does that in any way translate to me not trusting any of ali's reads?

[Gorkington]

elbirn looked bad.
gin also looked bad.

and so we the scumteam collectively decided last night that i should do the nightkill, especially after gin apparently just dropped a vote on a mislynch that has gotten me nonstop shit all of this cycle!
wow makes perfect sense to me!

[Gorkington]

you should ask me for my thoughts on it.

[Gorkington]

alisae.
i dont explain
the thoughts
of people i replace.
EVER.
I DONT DO IT.
because that would be
A WASTE OF TIME
and i dont waste my time.
ever.
i dont ever do that.
and fuck whoever asks me to waste MY VALUABLE TIME.

thats right.
i hate you alisae.
i hate you and the horse you road in on.

because you decided it would be a good idea to ask me for my thoughts on my predecessor.
i hope you repent for the rest of your life.
and even then i will never forgive you.

[Gorkington]

the only question you should be asking
is why is your vote so fucking bad.

[Gorkington]

if people are going to vote me because my predecessor did terrible shit, fine.
i cant really argue against that.

if people are going to vote me because im a lazy sack of shit this game, fine.
i can understand that.

but creature's argument for me being the apparent source of the nightkill is fucking terrible.
and if thats a big part of the basis of your vote, then thats fucking weak.

im not going to promise im going to get invested this game because i probably dont have the time and effort to put into it.

p-edit: only lameread i have for scum right now is leon.

[Gorkington]

i also kind of hate every post that math has made at me.
but that also might just be mathblade.

[Gorkington]

tbh that isn't the only source for my vote.
But mkay can we talk?
I would really like to talk.
Talking is what cool people do.
What do you think of Vecna?

it felt like it with how you started pushing me after it
D:

i can probably talk more tomorrow night, but ive had a pretty long day today.

vecna's closer to townlean than not.
i can give a lot of words there but theyre pretty lame.

Glork, do you think Creature genuinely believes his roleblock of you stopped the kill? Do you think everyone who voted after Creature (being LUV and Alisae) believes in that being a hard guilty?
What did you think of Nero and Alisae's back and forth earlier where they voted you then Nero switched to Alisae?
What do you think of Vecna, MathBlade, and Leonshade all voting you together before Creature outed the roleblock?

im still kind of trying to digest creature's claim.
the way hes been saying kind of softpushing me this whole time while saying hes apparently waiting for reactions seems kind of weird. like, if his intention was purely just to get reactions i dont really understand why he would even mention me before actually claiming me as his target.
i think under different circumstances i would be leaning town on a claim like that, but with no scum flipped, i think its a risk that scum could plausibly take at this stage.
unless theres a way that scum can see all of the wonders that havent been selected yet, hes probably not fakeclaiming having the role at the very least. i guess if hes scum it would be pretty weird to target me? but i guess at the same time i also just feel like the waiting and build-up to claiming target could have been waiting to see who the best person would be to drop on.
i'll probably need to reread it tomorrow night.

nero/ali interaction seemed kind of boring. did you take something from that interaction? because i didnt from what little i remember from it.

and leon/math pushes on me ive already established i didnt like.
theres elements of vecna's engage that give me wonky vibes but his vote isnt anywhere near as bad as the other two's.

had to say, gork is ugly posting a lot

lol.
you have nothing to say on creature's claim on me?
i would have thought a player of your caliber would have been all over that.

[Gorkington]

i ask anyone to seriously look into how leon has been engaging me so far this cycle and tell me with a straight face that that seems like someone who is trying to sort someone vs someone who is literally just trying to stay alive by finding reasons to call someone scum.

and mathblade totally discrediting that argument by focusing on the tone of my posts over the content feels fucking garbage too.

[Gorkington]

im entirely willing to own up to my content being kind of shit so far.
i was trying out something that i usually do with my replacement game, but i dont have the energy for it anymore and i got really demotivated trying to do it here.

and i think scum saw me as an opportunity to jump on as an easy lynch.

im not sure if the scum is faking a claim they know they can get away with or if theyre just trying to take advantage of my general lack of investment in this game so far/my predecessor's posting.
but i would be fucking shocked if there werent at least two scum in leonshade, mathblade, cloudkicker and creature.

p-edit: im feeling actually kind of good atm.
if im still feeling this good tomorrow i promise to give more specific and comprehensive and tangible thoughts on things.
but i should really probably sleep or i'll die tomorrow q.q

pp-edit: gahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
one sec.

[Gorkington]

Gork is scum. Pretty damn sure of it. It feels more like he's pushing Leon in order to have someone to push rather than believing it.

[Gorkington]

VOTE: Gorkington

is this the part where im supposed to react?

[Gorkington]

sorry to disappoint, but im town.
dont have any wonders.
vecna, ali and nancy are probably town. feel like creature is town. pretty sure rest of the wagon has 3+ scum on it. best bet is math/leon [which is probable bet for partners].
dont really have anything else beyond that.

someone hammer so i can figure out who i can call stupid postgame.

[Gorkington]

yup.

[Gorkington]

i sure am glad i replaced into this game so that i could be called shit a bunch. (:

[Gorkington]

i would really like to not have to look at this game anymore.
can we go back to lynching me?

[Gorkington]

And you dont self ? this looks like you trying not to be actually lunched dear gork

wow youre really quite the detective arent you!

[Gorkington]

really fucking funny that cloud calls my posting shit and thinks that me not self-voting is a seriously viable reason for me being scum.

[Gorkington]

oh man that was the problem! i didnt understand what you were saying!
it wasnt that i was just saying your thought process is dumb as fuck!

[Gorkington]

shit. i guess leon's actually probably town then.

[Gorkington]

"hey gork man i know i just told everyone to hammer you and i clearly dont care about whether youre town or scum because im just grasping at anything you do to call you scum right now, but hey man im trying to sort you right now comon what the heck man gimme a bone"

and i was joking. as in your reasons for your push are so bad i wouldnt be surprised if you didnt have a single read right.

[Gorkington]

Yay, I just found out I'm going on exchange to Glasgow this fall!

Also my V/LA starts now, I might post a bit but don't expect much.

VOTE: Gorkington

leon's coming into this cycle with a lot of heat on him.
his best chance for getting himself out of the hotseat is to try and shift momentum somewhere else.
i think my slot being a replacement of a slot that was also disengaged before they replaced out made me an easy potential scapegoat.

i think the focus on gin feels kind of ehhh in retrospect.
just, why would you not be asking me for my thoughts on actual reads so i can potentially start scumhunting?
or question me on what i thought about people in the gamestate or specific events pertaining to other people? it just seems like it could be intentionally distracting.

asking someone what they think about who they replaced seems like such a waste of time, especially when theres so much to be trying to unpack in this game.

i dont really feel all that strongly about this, but his play gets a lot worse from there.

beyond that, i think his subsequent engages with me were extremely lazy and him not responding to being called out on that feels like him trying to abuse the attention being shifted off of him.

his questions are very surface level and dont really indicate much interest in actually trying to parse someone's alignment.
his angles that hes been pushing on have entirely focused on who i replaced since he cant defend himself and my tone vs my content.
its really not hard to call something LAMIST or forced.
i dont really think theres a lot of actual HUNTING and instead just a lot of empty posturing.

i get that hes on VLA, but him asking me things, getting called out on those things and then the only mention of me since is just "i like this wagon" in spite of his questions/my responses.
you would think he would be interested in dismantling what i said to make it more clear i was scum?
but he just entirely drops it.

leonshade is also the first person that i ISOdived this game and will probably be the last for a while if i dont die because i really dont want to put more effort into this game than i have already if im literally just about to die.
BUT.
i will say that there are elements of leon's early play that i found somewhat townleaning, but all of his votes this game have been so fucking
terrible.
like.
every single time the day gets close to the end, hes made a terrible shitty vote that it doesnt even look like he believes in.
i think theres a very very real possibility that leon is trying to lay low specifically because he knows that people looking back are going to really see how obviously terrible his voting record has been.

leon's probably who we should be lynching today.
especially since the momentum on his wagon fizzled onto me and there really doesnt seem to be a good reason for why that happened other than my slot being a SHINY SHINY COUNTERWAGON.

vote: leon

ayyyyy
im fucking in the game lets go.

going up the wagon totem pole but in the meantime get the shit votes off of me and lets get a wagon going here please.

[Gorkington]

VOTE: Gorkington

nancy is giving me the heebie jeebies. No time to explain but Gork is also scum so....

my read on mathblade is pretty linked with my leonshade read.

i think the way his focus on me developed was potentially very opportunistic in terms of the timing of my focus going towards leonshade and the subsequent hardpush on me being scum, as well as the hesitance to actually commit to pushing there until the leonshade wagon was actually kind of failing.

i think one of the things i feel worst about with so many of these people who have called me scum is that SO SO SO many of them claimed i was obviously scum throughout my early play, but instead decided to focus elsewhere, especially while leonshade wagon was happening.

like, i just cant help but feel like some of it must have been opportunism.

i especially feel bad about math/leon pushes together because they use very very similar reasoning.
in a way that almost makes me feel like there was discussion on how to frame pushing me.

beyond that, i dont really see incredibly convincing reasoning for why leonshade has mathblade in his toptier and mathblade is constantly defending leonshade and calling him obvtown but doesnt seem to supply reasons while doing so while leonshade wagon is happening?
it just seems weird to me that he wouldnt try to convince people by saying actual reasons that he was scum vs just saying over and over again that hes town and trying to push nero who was clearly not going to happen? im just not sure if i see how that intention works.

with math theres also this really strange justification for scumreading me of "PV is scum and PV/Gork are scumbuddies"
and i just dont really get it?
like.
that was one of the first things that stood out to me this game.
that PV has like.. 200+ posts, ive only ever seen PVscum lurk and math is calling him scum?
ive asked for reasoning on this and i never got it.
and theres a lame part of me that feels like math is pushing me as an excuse to not have to rehash that [but thats probably not a good point zzz].

in terms of general thoughts on math im kind of confused as to why hes still alive?
scum grabbing vig to try and justify mathblade's claim being alive this game seems pretty plausible to me.
i havent really looked into what people have been talking about here so i would be interested in whether this was talked about at some point/if people could link me to where it was talked about so i dont waste too much time speccing over something thats probably already been talked about at some point.

in summary i just get bad vibes about the timing and justification of his scumread on me in terms of how it relates to leon who is really really likely scum and his PVread and justification of scumreading me via his PVread feels wonky and the role stuff kind of pings me too.

people townreading mathblade should talk to me like im 12 about it.

p-edit: zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
please dont take the wind out of my sails just as im getting going.
at least not with generic shit like "your post sucks".
i dont think you understand how demotivating that in particular is for me.
please dont :/

[Gorkington]

like, at least engage me on it

what do you disagree with

[Gorkington]

LUV and Leonshade are scum.

lol
why

[Gorkington]

is your next post going to reveal that youve actually been scumreading me this whole time?
and this last page was just a joke?
lol

[Gorkington]

zzzzzz
im gonna go back to picking at my wagon.

[Gorkington]

can you link me specific posts that you feel wouldnt be fakeable by them in terms of dissonance?

p-edit: ty, you honestly have no idea how much i appreciate it after feeling shut down so much

[Gorkington]

The fact that they're still alive shouldn't be surprising because they generally aren't an early NK choice that I've seen.

i more meant in terms there being some sentiment that they should be vigged in order to use their role.
im thinking about this more and im realizing that im definitely underthinking how that works between so many kill-stopping roles being in play/someone townreading them being incredibly unlikely to shoot them for utility/scum potentially trying to brew suspicion on him by sitting on the vig/potentially saving it for endgame if they have it.

p-edit: tyty.

[Gorkington]

gendering was an accident. i thought he was your pronoun and have been making an active effort to use it because my kneejerk was something else. will try to do better in the future, but i really dont see why that should enter into your read of me though?

i really dont like you focusing on the single point that i admitted i had underthought on this page.

[Gorkington]

why is PV scum.

[Gorkington]

obviously its not obvious that pv is scum because nobody else is talking about it.

and its frankly not obvious that im scum because im not scum.

theres literally 0 effort on your part to do anything other than just vaguely characterize the entirety of my posts as being disingenuous.
why is it so hard to actually break down a case/engage me directly if youre so convinced that im scum and theres potential for me to break apart the wagon here?
that youre implying thatd be a waste of time is just really strangely cocky.

p-edit:
1) vca is garbage.
2) multiple kill-stopping roles being in the game only applies to you?
3) this is just literally buzzword garbage.
4) 700 posts later, i actually read and organize my thoughts and my read becomes more confident! shocking!

[Gorkington]

vote: mathblade

[Gorkington]

leon wagon is doing nothing while hes not here.

i dont think you ever got those math/titus interactions, are you still intending on doing that

[Gorkington]

Being shut down so much? You didnt exactly do a lot so far this game, so this sentiment feels fake.

man fuck off vecna.

just because i havent posted a shit-ton doesnt mean i havent done anything.
even if its not in the literal thread.
and its demotivating as fuck for people to potshot me nonstop.

are you seriously so confident in your read on me that youre willing to literally box me in a corner and confbias me to death instead of trying to directly engage me on something actually game related that isnt just calling me awkward?

[Gorkington]

Is that addressed to me, Gork?

yes

[Gorkington]

I am finely fine with KidAmn condemnation.

why
and why did you stop pushing me

[Gorkington]

zzzzzz.

[Gorkington]

do you think youre accomplishing something right now?

[Gorkington]

[because i dont]

[Gorkington]

Math is Town. Notice explains it better than I.

im gonna go back to reading then i guess.

[Gorkington]

i more mean the way youre pushing it?

just calling someone scum over and over is accomplishing nothing but padding an already enormous game with more rhetoric.
why is nancy scum.
convince people.
it doesnt look like youre doing anything when you just say it over and over again.

[Gorkington]

why are you expecting people to hunt through your ISO for your reasons for wanting nancy lynched instead of hitting them in the face with why?

[Gorkington]

my argument is that repeating that someone is scum is pointless.
you have to actively try and make it happen.
if you have the time to argue with me over this dumb semantic thing, you dont have time to case nancy and hit people in the face with your case?

which really just boils down to, do you actually care if nancy gets lynched right now?
if you do, prove it by getting your shit together, make points and argue with people about those points instead of just telling them that theyre wrong and dumb.

you are making points in your ISO, sure, but you could easily be hitting people in the face with them until they have to either seriously buckle down and convince you that youre wrong, sheep you or give up.
and if it gets to the latter state then find something else to push on her if youre still convinced shes scum?

like.
i just dont get why people think that just saying someone is scum is useful in game thats about communication.
convince me.
or convince other people if you think im scum. i dont really give a shit.
reading tons of rhetoric is so mind-bogglingly tiring for me.
and i get that we all get there sometimes just.. zzzzzzzzzz.
be a little self-aware in that way?

[Gorkington]

the only serious point i can see recently was that she was active on the site while sondam wagon was happening and that you think shes faking being incredulous about it happening while it was happening.

which is kind of ethically questionable but its not the worst point in the world if its true?

idk

nancy's tone just kind of reads pretty town in general/theres a lot of emotion and effort that i feel would be pretty hard to fake.
im pretty aware that im a prime candidate for WKing right now, and nancy would be in an amazing position if that was her goal here, but i just dont get that vibe from here/i would be really impressed with her.

do you have experience with her outside of this game?

p-edit: zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
right.
because its the push itself and not the way that youre pushing it that im finding frustrating.

why the fuck does everyone talk past me this game?

[Gorkington]

like is it really so hard to engage me in case youre wrong here?

if you do and you still feel like nancy and i are both scum, then great.

if youre wrong then youre probably going to feel like a fucking idiot.
or at least i'll make an active effort to make you feel that way if youre town here.

[Gorkington]

why do i play mafia

[Gorkington]

vote: vecna

enjoy pushing this leon/me dichotomy for today.
because tomorrow im chewing you up and spitting you in the trashbin.

[Gorkington]

im not voting nero as long as the biggest reason its happening is RC driving it.
[and also because nero seems like shit-town but i mean]

mathblade is closer to null.
leon's latest posting feels townish.
and i feel really uncomfortable with how often it just keeps swinging back on the two of us.

everything about vecna's constant push to try and bring it back to the two of us interchangeably feels awful.

[Gorkington]

[Gorkington]

nope.

[Gorkington]

yeah fuck off.
hes been doing it for ages.

his reasoning and reads are sticky.
and they dont even make sense.
hes saying that leon and i are scum together because we have ONLY focused on each other.

[Gorkington]

ive seen like 10 posts of his saying this.

and hes been around enough that he doesnt have the excuse of not reading the game.

[Gorkington]

i just think hes scum?

[Gorkington]

in no world does town vecna engage my play the way he has this game.

[Gorkington]

i cant really say?

i really dont believe he pushes me the way he has and reads my play the way he has been as town here.

[Gorkington]

i really dont think its as simple as his playstyle?
at all?

its also weird as fuck that hes been floating davesaz as scum for ages now but trusts his result on creature/max without the slightest of doubt.

[Gorkington]

ou really are all over the place. Also nice to ignore all my posts on the topic of why I think youre scum and only refer to me pushing "both you and Leon"

yeah because i havent referred to your shit ass potshots at me that wouldnt be hard at all to fake as scum.

is anyone townreading this?
seriously?

[Gorkington]

How have I been floating Davesaz as scum for ages? It was like literally a period of 24 hours last day or something. Also this second statement almost feels like youre fishing whether im the chichen itza....there no need Gorkington, I already claimed what wonder I have and its not that one.

how does this address what im actually saying?
dont move the goalpost.
why are you taking dave's claim at face value if youre suspicious of him?

and i have no idea what happened when you were writing the second half of this post.

[Gorkington]

is everything okay vecna?

[Gorkington]

i still dont really understand why nero wagon happened.

[Gorkington]

i think youre taking me literally when you probably shouldnt

why is nero scum

[Gorkington]

i was making fun of him. because im stupid.

[Gorkington]

q.q

[Gorkington]

someday youll be as good as me, dont worry.

[Gorkington]

rc
why should i vote kid
hes just a kid

[Gorkington]

im selling my vote to the highest bidder
that way i cant be held responsible for my actions

[Gorkington]

i think the worst part about this game.
is that there are 500+ pages.
and 3 people with postcounts in this game equal to ~a quarter~ of my entire posting history on this account.
and the last serious reason i remember for someone thinking someone was scum in a way that was even remotely tangible was nero's thoughts on nancy.
is it too much to ask for the casing in this game to get condensed down into tangible shit that i can actually digest? and not just HEY THIS PERSON'S TONE?
tone only means something to me if its based on direct experience with someone.
i could metadive if life wasnt shitting in my mouth, but as such, thats not happening.

if you quote posts at me and say "LOOK AT THIS TONE" it means nothing to me.
if you point at a person and say "LOOK ITS SCUM" it means nothing to me.
explain things at me like im dumb as fuck.
because im really tired of floating through this game feeling like i have absolutely nothing to hold onto.
and very little of whats being pushed is sticking with me at all.
====================================================

LEONSHADE

im trying really hard not to focus on him scumbinning me.
with literally nothing so much as an update on anything since his first interactions with me.
which my gut is growling at really hard but i dont really trust that.
i also think its probable that he could just not be reading?

i thought some of his stuff on nero was decent.
i felt similarly about nero's selfvote seeming weirdly premature.

i havent seen any serious push in terms of strong confident reasoning on him being scum which i could have missed, but i think its kind of concerning that i cant even remember a vague reason why people are calling him scum?
i think if this was a town on scum wagon or a scum on scum wagon there would be more justification and less "well lets consensus on a ??????", which is the vibe im getting.
it feels more like scum taking advantage of apathy.

Leon Wagon

NoticeMeSenpai,

KidAmn

,

CloudKicker

, Lil Uzi Vert,

Caesar Wills It

, Alisae, [scum]

Vecna

[/scum]

bolded are all big big big question marks.
and even ali/senpai are wavering townleans for me.

hey look im talking about VECNA! read this please

his engagement this game is very very selective in a way that feels nasty.
ive also seen scum try to take the driver's seat and organize things before and vecna is giving me those kind of vibes.
[andrius in thing mafia comes to mind]
i dont see any reason why vecna as scum wouldnt claim for towncred to drive mislynches and then still use the ability with the position that scum are in.
scum can afford to trade here.

like.
all ive gotten in response is just nancy voting me.
which i still dont really get at all.
and would like words on.

tldr:
why is leon a scum
*the leon wagon feels really really bad.*
why is vecna not a scum

this game is ruining my sleep schedule.

[Gorkington]

HEY GUYZ!
IT'S

MULTIBALL!

!

can you go back to posting like you were when i first replaced in
so i can feel like youre town again?
thanks.

[Gorkington]

kid/vecna connection kind of makes sense.
adding kidslotsort to list of shit to do

[Gorkington]

prooooood dodge.

[Gorkington]

if i get 12 hours i will probably have time to catch up. if im not caught up by then, people can hit me in the face/ and or torso / and or feelings.

[Gorkington]

secretly actually:

o:

[Gorkington]

hi nancy.
i was at work.

im home now.

[Gorkington]

and i think given that ive stated that i havent been scumreading leon, you might just have to consider that maybe i was making a joke.
o:

[Gorkington]

ow no not punches
i have such brittle fragile skin

[Gorkington]

how did you read the post where i explained why i thought you were scum
and then subsequently
ignore all the parts about leon in it?

[Gorkington]

from where i stand from having skimmed this game slightly,
kid looks way worse than leon to me.

[Gorkington]

im reading things first.
and then posting my thoughts on those things.
and then dont you worry.
i'll be voting something
and itll be fucking amazing.

[Gorkington]

which scumgames from leon do you feel resemble his play here the most?

[Gorkington]

I AM THE CHOSEN ONE

[Gorkington]

leon did you ever respond to vecna's big case on you involving meta?
or at least respond in detail to the general sentiment of your play here being worse than in geass?

[Gorkington]

im glad both wagons arent at l-1.

i think i would die if i had that much responsibility q.q

[Gorkington]

wtf
theres two days left?
vecna calm down lol

[Gorkington]

have you ever gotten overly apathetic in a game as town in a game with a lot of mechanics before?

[Gorkington]

in game as town in a game.
wow
im a literal genius.

[Gorkington]

can you go into the general mindset you had when you were voting
beeboy on D1
abr on D2
sondam on D3?

[Gorkington]

also,
nancy
i saw earlier you were talking about yuri's play in this game being a strong indicator of kid's slot being town.
can you talk about that if im not misunderstanding what you were saying there?

[Gorkington]

vecna's probably town

[Gorkington]

i could hunt for the misinterpreted quote, but probably not the best use of my time if i interpreted it wrong anyways.

[Gorkington]

how does maxous come off while creature stays?

[Gorkington]

im pretty sure he knows that.
hes referenced it before.

[Gorkington]

drinking while trying to take this game seriously was probably a bad idea!

kid's probably scum [tone/confidence/reads all feel off]
leon's probably not [tone isnt comparable to scum-meta ive looked at and i can generally buy apathy for most of why hes scumread]

if nothing else changes, im voting kid tomorrow.
and not right now.
because vecna is going to swoop in and lolhammer and im not down.
especially since this game is moderately engaging atm and im hoping that i'll be feeling less sad tomorrow so i can dig into more than just main two wagons.

[Gorkington]

sorry for not giving more than that after all that hype earlier today.
im just really not feeling great.
:/

[Gorkington]

i had all this confidence to come in and be a mother fucker and instead after reading a bunch i just kind of feel droopy and stupid.
q.q

[Gorkington]

rc
why is nero scum

please.

dont just say "lol fuck u he is"
why.

like
theres no way a wagon is happening there unless you actually drive something home here.

[Gorkington]

lol.
i dont know what i was expecting.

[Gorkington]

can you just fucking clean up the rhetoric for a second?
its so tiring.

like.
even if youre right.
youre not doing a good job of driving it home.

[Gorkington]

@rc

, nero scum is something thats floating in the back of my head.
and honestly, your push is one of the biggest things making me scared of taking it seriously.

ive been trying to ignore your push.
because i dont want to start shit with you this game.
just.

like.
is it so hard to make a case there if youre actually that confident hes scum?
do you really think the rhetoric is working?

p-edit: zzzzzzz.
im not going to rush the day just because i dont feel good.
i want to lynch scum.
the gamestate fucking sucks.
if we rush it and lynch town its going to be even shitter tomorrow.

[Gorkington]

your selfvote was weird.
your read on me has been weird.
and sometimes it feels kind of like youre overly content with the gamestate in a way that makes me uncomfortable.

[Gorkington]

Gorkington, my man.

This gamestate is awesome. (almost) 535 pages of joy.

I really dont get this apathy. Or this demoralized sentiment.

Scum is playing really good (or is doing a damn fine job lurking under the radar) - and we get to try to shit on their parade.

we have different ideas of joy.
:/

[Gorkington]

im just annoyed because i started off feeling really good about my catch-up.
youre right that i should probably step away for a bit.
but
i really dont think i would feel comfortable voting, even if i think its a good vote, if i think its going to end the cycle before im ready for it to end when i have a choice still.

[Gorkington]

Thats just me trying to motivate you Gork. Thumbs up, at least your busy salvaging the slot and doing a lot better making me think youre town than any of your predessesors (lol-spelling) predecessors? did. Stupid red lines. Predescesors? fucking english language.

i get you.
i just dont agree that this is a good place right now.

You're not hammering, just so you know.

im pretty sure whichever way i vote right now is going to get lynched.
i really dont like that kind of pressure.

[Gorkington]

i will say that i dont feel great about how leon left right after the questions stopped.

[Gorkington]

eh, El was active lurking to me and Gin putting me in a damned if I do, damned if I don't situation felt scummy. His vote on Sondam felt really opportunistic and I haven't really fely like you've done anything that makes me like the slot.

I was just frustrated that there was a wagon on me based on ???? Like why is me being frustrated so unbelievable? What is your read on Leon?

I don't get the part about being content with the game state at all.

i just dont like that it feels like youre pulling me out every now and then like "oh yeah gork is scum too haha woops forgot about that".
the consistency there feels weird.
theres also that i feel like im pretty in the game right now.
this is like.
me, in the game, as town.
and most people are seeing it.
you holding onto this read and pretending like my contribution isnt changing now that im actually in the game feels really sticky.

i think it was more the timing than anything?
like.
you had maybe 4-5 votes on you, but the general sentiment wasnt there.
so the reaction felt overblown.

i think im townleaning leon atm.

and your recent posting is a pretty good example of that.
like.
leon wagon is fizzling
and instead of ramping up the pressure for the wagon
youre fishing for RCwagon
and taking potshots at him
instead of driving leon.
if youre feeling RC i dont get why you wouldnt try to vote or push him here.

[Gorkington]

actually forgot about that. can look at it again, but
from what i remember i really feel like youve been under significantly less pressure this game than leon?

[Gorkington]

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[Gorkington]

did you really think you were about to be lynched there?

[Gorkington]

okay, if it was so uncertain, why the fatalism?
how many scum did you think were jumping on you?

[Gorkington]

so kidamn hardbusses two of his scummates?

[Gorkington]

nero why are you being so selective with what you respond to from me?
-.-

[Gorkington]

youre responding to stuff after my stuff was posted?

[Gorkington]

Hes gotta have some way to fabricate somewhat credible reads as scum, no?

i guess.
kind of feel like scum wouldnt accept competing scum wagons here.
especially if dave is town.

[Gorkington]

like "oh shit max and creature are linked! we should bus each other now and accept that as the gamestate!"
feels pretty unlikely

[Gorkington]

if dave is scum then im pretty sure we're fucked

so im probably just going to hope hes not

[Gorkington]

because likely two scum out of lynchpool
and i think under those circumstances
we're not going to get to a point where dave or his targets are going to be viable wagons
unless we continually lynch scum the rest of the game
and neither creature's, dave's or max's play this game indicate scum with any level of overall worry about the gamestate.

[Gorkington]

like.
odds of lynching a parity cop claim
are so low.

even if i thought davesaz was vomiting scum all over the game
i would probably not vote him.

it wouldnt be worth the risk.

can maybe see lynching one of his targets
but
i havent seen any sentiment for that at all.

so if hes scum
hes probably protecting a scummate
and we're probably not going to deal with that.

[Gorkington]

is she really forcing it?
saying its possible that its multiball is different from saying she thinks its multiball.

[Gorkington]

this game is a town loss tbh

lol.

[Gorkington]

be back tomorrow.

[Gorkington]

Unclaimed
CloudKicker

Gorkington

NoticeMeSenpai
nancy
Maxous

ftfy.

also still wonderless.

also also feeling like a muddled mess.
i really need to stare at this game for a few hours tonight
and would really like to condense thoughts when ive got my head back into this

as motivation, ive definitely actually created a program that will automatically post my address, SIN # and credit card information if i fail.
feel free to throw rocks at me IRL/destroy my credit/steal my identity if im still being a sack of shit.
you need to do this for me.
as true friends.

[Gorkington]

why

[Gorkington]

math.
im like.
90% sure vecna is town right now.

if youre going to continue this nonstop blitz of posting, you should understand that
A) its not changing anything about how im perceiving him specifically
B) its making this thread a fucking chore to read.

you keep saying that scum is going to drive the gamestate if you dont spam to stop them, but i dont really see why anyone would seriously advocate towards lynching in the next few days.
and if somehow a quicklynch happens, then whoever's town throwing around their votes can eat shit postgame.

theres also that it doesnt really seem like theres any momentum on anyone except nero, so i dont really get why youre congesting the thread here.

condense a case on vecna if you think hes scum.
like.
point by point
why is he scum.
make something that i can actually digest.

vecna's said you have a bad history of reading him in the past, is that true? or no?

[Gorkington]

and yes im focusing specifically on your read on vecna because the two of you are my strongest townreads and if that doesnt get sorted now, its going to be a problem.
so lets work this through.
please?

[Gorkington]

@Gork- what were your build attempts day1 through day4?

im not really sure this is protown for me to claim tbh.
im a little worried that what i specifically tried to build would be giving scum info on something.

[Gorkington]

math
you'll have to go to bed at some point.

what happens then?
WHAT HAPPENS THEN!?!?

[but seriously though, i really dont think a lynch is going to happen just because youre not posting, i think the real effect is that this game is going to be impossible for anyone thats catching up to parse]

[Gorkington]

Claim it. Your failures only reveal what wonders are out there.

i mean.
i agree.
lol.

[Gorkington]

its not so much an issue of claim order?

idk
im probably overthinking it

[Gorkington]

math, vecna.
i need you to both sit down.
this is an intervention.

i need you to look into each other's eyes and say something nice about each other, okay?

and then i need both of you to say "i respect u and also ur town and also lets get scum".

okay?
okay.
neat.
glad we definitely worked that out for good.
:')

[Gorkington]

like, i dont actually see a way to progress forward as long as this conversation is happening.
at the very least, math, im asking you to seriously consider shelving vecna for today and rework your reads from there.

[Gorkington]

luv, why did you not pick leaning tower?

[Gorkington]

it didnt occur to you that scum having it was really really terrible?

[Gorkington]

actually nero, this applies to you too.
why didnt you pick leaning tower?

[Gorkington]

vecna, if youre not scumreading math, can you stop trolling them?

[Gorkington]

14993 and Vote nancy

not claiming.
i dont see the serious benefits to knowing my pred's build request and i seriously think theres potential for it to help scum SPECIFICALLY in this instance.
and im not voting anyone anytime soon.

Did it not occur to you that I perhaps would not enjoy having a power that I know I would not make the best use of?

I didn't really want it.

if either of you are town, theres a distinct chance that youre the specific reason that we're so fucked today.
so thanks for that.

[Gorkington]

And yes, I think Gorkington is very likely scum,

as I have already stated since

.

since when??

[Gorkington]

if nancy is actually scum

im going to be sad.

[Gorkington]

For the record, regardless of my read on you which I will keep to myself, I once invented a role and spent like 10 posts asking the mod questions about it in chat as a goon.

thats in your character though.
i really dont think thats in vecna's character >.>

[Gorkington]

okay great.
whats your read on nancy?

[Gorkington]

...

[Gorkington]

can i just post my rolePM to speed up the process of losing?

[Gorkington]

lol.

[Gorkington]

NOW YOU KNOW HOW I FELT WHEN I REPLACED IN LEON
HOW DOES IT FEEL
DOES IT FEEL BAD
I HOPE IT FEELS BAD

[Gorkington]

I don't think there's a 0% chance that Nero was bussing nancy but there's no way that I'm voting her today or anytime soon

isnt that a given

if youve openly stated youre only voting nero?

[Gorkington]

:/

[Gorkington]

not claiming.

Yes you are.

And yes, I think Gorkington is very likely scum,

as I have already stated since

.

since when??

hey yeah nancy lets play a game.
its called.
you do this.
and im going to make you not have fun.

why are you scumreading me
why did you imply that you were scumreading me before when your ISO indicates the contrary

i have good reasons for not wanting to claim here.
why would i imply otherwise when it clearly draws attention to myself?

[Gorkington]

im waiting nancy.

[Gorkington]

hello i am leaning tower guy i blocked dave because i thought he would nightkill woops sorry

[Gorkington]

i dont know vecna
i just dont know

[Gorkington]

math
you remember that time
when i made a joke
and you thought i was serious

[Gorkington]

are you guys fucking kidding me

[Gorkington]

Its not a funny joke Gorkington, we have enough chaos as is.

Own up to it, or renounce that statement.

lol.

[Gorkington]

i think it was pretty funny.

[Gorkington]

i would rather lynch nancy than nero atm.
and even then, i wouldnt advocate for lynching either of them RIGHT THIS SECOND.

[Gorkington]

I am outed as having Aspergers in the thread

That means I have trouble understanding sarcasm or some social conventions

I play mafia to get better

Like the go for broke to me is a lie based on how I learned the phrase. Guess it means something else.

its not a big deal.
just letting you know i was kidding.

[Gorkington]

Who do we need to hear more from?

Ceasar? Cloud? Notice?

leon too.

[Gorkington]

Leon has talked a lot today actually.

hasnt really felt like it tbh

[Gorkington]

I really dont think Nancy is scum here Gorky. I mean, not that im the authority figure on Nancy or w/e but I raelly dont see it.

do you have words
about why
or is this just gut

[Gorkington]

Leon has talked a lot today actually.

hasnt really felt like it tbh

i guess there was the role stuff.
but i feel like his contributions to the thread have felt weird.
like
entirely focused on himself/mechanics
and im really worried i gave him the benefit of the doubt yesterday because he responded well to questions about himself
when his scumhunting hasnt really felt all that real to me

[Gorkington]

do you really think youre going to lynch me with that?

[Gorkington]

In like my third post today.

not seeing it?

[Gorkington]

With what? Are you trying to goad me or something? Lol.

i dont get your progression on me at all.
and its honestly put me really on edge.
so.
yes.
im goading you if it means youll actually explain shit here.

[Gorkington]

if someone has the ability to Wifom their reads as town, that wouldnt strike you as someone who would be willing to do something similar as scum?

[Gorkington]

you said you were going to go for a nap
you fucking LIAR

[Gorkington]

vote: nancy

[Gorkington]

theres nothing about nancy's engagement with today thats town.

[Gorkington]

vecna, if this is what you felt like when i said that,
im sorry.

because its really fucking annoying for you to say that right now.

[Gorkington]

Gork and Caesar are both Town.

this is your last direct mention of me in your ISO.
and here is your third post:

Sorry, I've been busy. I'm VT I went for broke on the neighborhood wonder and lost it, obviously. Someone with priority needs to deny the vig because scum very likely have 1 slot with priority here.

NK is optimal which means one of two people are very likely scum and also means that there are scum in my Towns. Need to rethink. If Town has the IC wonder, they NEED to reveal with mod RIGHT THE FUCK NOW.

Aslan I am trusting you on Caesar, I need you to be sure. Please reset and go back over his non-flavor content and thoroughly grok that.

CK you were PoE, why can you not be scum with Leonshade? I need a lot of content from you today, please.

davesaz I'm presuming you targeted RC and I.

Vecna I need you to stop considering a world where Aslan and Notice are scum and focus elsewhere, please.

do illuminate why you arent full of fucking shit here
or was the mention of scumreading me in the scumPT
and you just forgot that you were supposed to be floating it in the thread before now?

[Gorkington]

"oh hi its me nancy im here to comment on nothing actually happening within the gamestate regarding main wagons and what not and man i mostly just kind of look like scum who's finding it hard to readjust after driving a mislynch"

[Gorkington]

like i was really the best choice you had available to try and fake push?
really?

[Gorkington]

if anyone reads your ISO, youre literally fucked because theres literally nothing in there that makes how you started this push look okay.

[Gorkington]

youre hilarious.

[Gorkington]

lol.