Civilization Mafia [GAME OVER]

[Vecna]

See, heres the thing Notice - youre hard townreading the slots a lot of people are suspicious of for good reasons. With that PoE pool, how are you not having townreads on the actual obvious slots and having a pretty good idea of what the scumteam should look like?

And what praytell are the obvious slots? Because to me the obvious slots are literally the ones I have highlighted and given reasons for. Anyone scumreading them is either mafia or so far up mafia's ass that they might as well be honorary members. THIS is why you have been mislynching every single fucking day on unendorsed wagons if you're even town.

Btw, calling to be investigated by the double investigation wonder with that Red Fort showing up is a bit of a scumping to me.

lol yeah you're fucking trash tier if you're town.

Is it now? Because at this point in time, it strongly looks like proper usage of that inestigative wonder is the only way town is gonna win this. Calling out for it to be used on you could be a very valid scum sacrefise while youre already under fire. Calling me garbage for it is just total nonsense.

[Vecna]

See, heres the thing Notice - youre hard townreading the slots a lot of people are suspicious of for good reasons. With that PoE pool, how are you not having townreads on the actual obvious slots and having a pretty good idea of what the scumteam should look like?

And what praytell are the obvious slots? Because to me the obvious slots are literally the ones I have highlighted and given reasons for. Anyone scumreading them is either mafia or so far up mafia's ass that they might as well be honorary members. THIS is why you have been mislynching every single fucking day on unendorsed wagons if you're even town.

You really dont get to complain about mislynches when youve ended two out of 3 days without a vote anywhere.

You really dont get to complain about mislynches when you havent pushed a single scumread in forever.

[Vecna]

The tracker flip was the very moment we all got our wonders. You submit them way before, and gerry was the D3 lynch with the tracker. I had no way of knowing the tracker wouldve been gone when I very openly claimed I was likely picking that wonder. Doing that as scum, while it wastes the limited slots and likely invalidates the use of the wonder, is extremely subpar play.

And id say I had quite a lot of towncred during day3 yes. Im not even sure if there was a single vote for me during the entire day, and it lasted a long long time. And that was after the ABR flip, which I was pushing hard. The people you claim that were suspicious of me, werent at that time. Alisae and you were townreading me. Only Math was scumreading me.....and later Sondam, but that only happened when I was prodding them.

As for your comment that ive had a perfect fucking game? What dimension are you living in?

You very openly wifomed the shit out of what wonder you were picking. Means jack shit imo. Personally I was sure you weren't getting a wonder or had one from the prior ages because of it. So yeah, I doubt scum put much credence into what you put into the thread at athat time, and if they did they'd be fucking stupid.

And yeah that was when I was pushing you as town iirc. Because of something you yourself said you didn't pay attention to and could simply have been a misstep on your part as scum.

The dimension that scum have yet to be fucking lynched and I highly doubt that you as town fail to see that tbh, given how fucking god iter you seem to think you are.

I never said I didnt agree with your logic that scum wouldnt want the chaos that came from the DEO slot gone btw. Because as scum I wouldve loved to keep them around. I said as much in the post correcting you. The only point that was moot was that my action was directed at getting rid of the Titus head, because I had no idea how my pressure on the slot would resolve. All the other reasons for wanting that situation solved, which you yourself understood were vastly TOWN - are still completely valid.

Like, the only way it would make sense to even think me as scum would wanna solve that situation, was if I was scum with Math.

[Vecna]

Ive shaded/scumread you on D1, and on D3,5-D4 if im not mistaken. in between you were mostly a townread and I left you alone. Dont pretend you were a bastion of scum hunting in that time-frame, because its not true.

And im not blaming you for our mislynches, but i am saying you shouldnt blame me for it either (well you probably should for ABR), since thats hardly fair.

At any rate, this current posting isnt getting us anywhere except giving me the feeling im probably wrong about you being scum (which I guess is at least something we can work with).

[Vecna]

Notice if I hypothetically lock you as Town then the PoE on this game just becomes incredibly easy because it locks 3 other slots as Town at the same time and I have 2-3 reads I'm not confident in outside of my scumpool.

I don't care, the rest of your reads are probably shit. There's a reason I have largely given up on this game. Town deserve to lose after ignoring every fucking attempt to right them. Like even after I stpe in to derail the bullshit Creature shit going on people are still questioning if he's mafia and vecna is still throwing obvious shade over that and no one is batting a fucking eyelid at the fact htat he's scum pissed that I've completely eliminated a mislynch from the table.

I dont think I have ever scumread creature btw. Im just giving him more respect than most in that he can pull of pretty convincing scumplay these days, and im not putting him as a complete townlock. I dont wanna lynch creature.

[Vecna]

{Aslan, Brian, Creature, MathBlade, Notice}
{Caesar, Gorkington, LUV}
{davesaz, Maxous, Nero, Vecna}
{}
{CK, KidAmn, Leonshade}

If my reads are shit then work with me to fix them. The last time I asked for that you said no so what do you want from me? I've been trying all day to fix my reads and basically no one's done anything to help me figure shit out.

I dont have much problems with them. I personally think CK has been pretty towny since replace in (much more than Brian which id put a lot lower), and I dont understand the reads on Caesar and Gorkington.

The rest im completely fine with. If ive been wrong about Notice, he's probably right that Ali is town and ill trust his judgement on that.

[Vecna]

I never said I didnt agree with your logic that scum wouldnt want the chaos that came from the DEO slot gone btw. Because as scum I wouldve loved to keep them around. I said as much in the post correcting you. The only point that was moot was that my action was directed at getting rid of the Titus head, because I had no idea how my pressure on the slot would resolve. All the other reasons for wanting that situation solved, which you yourself understood were vastly TOWN - are still completely valid.

Like, the only way it would make sense to even think me as scum would wanna solve that situation, was if I was scum with Math.

My point was you were shooting yourself in the foot by keeping the person who scumread you around. You removed that point because you thought you'd be keeping Titus around, then decided you could fucking ego wifom me about it. Guess what? You can't, I'm not falling for it. As soon as you realized that it was "oh hey convenient Notice scumread!" like I literally cannot see why you aren't already fucking swinging. Instead we lost someone I gave reasons for being town based off really fucking strong meta tells. Why was that? OH because they were townreading me.

Why was Frogger killed? Because he was going to tr me if it wasn't multiball
Why was beeboy lynched? To save the Yuri/Notice "associative tells" for later (which are absolute fucking bullshit because you always intended to carry through your sr on me regardless of what yuri flipped, same with whoever else you fucking paired me with)
Why was ABR lynched? Because I thought he might be town and he wasn't actively going me
Why was PV killed? I bet if I go through his ISO we can find he wasn't scumreading me either
Why was there no nightkill last night? because scum tried to kill Alisae to get rid of one of my biggest defenders

You have literally been shading and trying to lynch me since D1 because I've been onto you, scumfuck.

Notice, I made that point because I wanted to sort you.

Dont you see that from my point of view, its a very convenient excuse to suddenly 180 on your read on me after I started townreading you? (the Titus/Mathblade swap that is).

I wanted to see how you'd react if I took that away from you by giving you the truth.

Yes, I couldve done it as an ego thing as scum, but what would be the sense?

[Vecna]

I never said I didnt agree with your logic that scum wouldnt want the chaos that came from the DEO slot gone btw. Because as scum I wouldve loved to keep them around. I said as much in the post correcting you. The only point that was moot was that my action was directed at getting rid of the Titus head, because I had no idea how my pressure on the slot would resolve. All the other reasons for wanting that situation solved, which you yourself understood were vastly TOWN - are still completely valid.

Like, the only way it would make sense to even think me as scum would wanna solve that situation, was if I was scum with Math.

My point was you were shooting yourself in the foot by keeping the person who scumread you around. You removed that point because you thought you'd be keeping Titus around, then decided you could fucking ego wifom me about it. Guess what? You can't, I'm not falling for it. As soon as you realized that it was "oh hey convenient Notice scumread!" like I literally cannot see why you aren't already fucking swinging. Instead we lost someone I gave reasons for being town based off really fucking strong meta tells. Why was that? OH because they were townreading me.

Why was Frogger killed? Because he was going to tr me if it wasn't multiball
Why was beeboy lynched? To save the Yuri/Notice "associative tells" for later (which are absolute fucking bullshit because you always intended to carry through your sr on me regardless of what yuri flipped, same with whoever else you fucking paired me with)
Why was ABR lynched? Because I thought he might be town and he wasn't actively going me
Why was PV killed? I bet if I go through his ISO we can find he wasn't scumreading me either
Why was there no nightkill last night? because scum tried to kill Alisae to get rid of one of my biggest defenders

You have literally been shading and trying to lynch me since D1 because I've been onto you, scumfuck.

Ok, I honestly havent even considered any of this in the reasoning for the lynches/nightkills.

I have been noting that there have been a lot of random scumreads popping up on your slot. I havent paid those too much mind, since they were in line with my own reads at the time, but im willing to dig into this to actually get somewhere if you think this is whats happening.

Yes im willing to give you an olive branch. My suspicion is not gonna leave entirely, since you do appear to be VERY VERY aware of exactly whats going on in this game, but im definately interested in exploring this since it points to a rather devilishly clever scum-brain if your suspicions are accurate.

At any rate, its not me.

(also, I didnt want beeboy but ABR lynched D1, and it had nothing to do with you. Also I think you mightve just given me a hint I was supposed to pick up much earlier)

[Vecna]

Like Notice I am actually willing at this point to just put you as Town because if the scumteam is SOMEHOW you MathBlade and whatever then we're fucked anyway and we're basically fucked as it is so banking on this is probably our best shot at winning.

Gorkington is Town because it makes no fucking sense for scum to come in today and suddenly bus one of their own after the kill getting docced or to let a lynch go through on him when they already have a vice grip on this game. Like basically as soon as we get one scumflip in this game the dominoes just fall.

It wouldve made a lot of sense if Gork was roleblocked and that prevented the kill, but apparently its not at all what happened.

[Vecna]

At any rate Notice - It is not my intention to shade/agitate or ruin the game for you in any way. I think this little live debate has put a lot of stuff in a sensible place for me and im gonna try and work with these new pieces.

[Vecna]

{Aslan, Brian, Creature, MathBlade, Notice}
{Caesar, Gorkington, LUV}
{davesaz, Maxous, Nero, Vecna}
{}
{CK, KidAmn, Leonshade}

If my reads are shit then work with me to fix them. The last time I asked for that you said no so what do you want from me? I've been trying all day to fix my reads and basically no one's done anything to help me figure shit out.

Is your read on Cloud based on Cloud or ssbm?

There's also very likely more than 3 mafia. I'm pretty sure Vecna is mafia which would make Maxous town because I don't think the back and forth with them was SvS. I thought Maxous was scum because of thinking Vecna had to be town but it's very likely I just fucked up on my read there. dave is town, just trust me on that one if you're town. I can't figure out if Nero is just bad and only hunting off "anti-town" stuff because of that or mafia hiding behind it. I have issues reading Nero but I think Alisae townreads him so... ehn.. not an avenue I would pursue unless through associations given that I think because I keep not being able to read him when I follow games as well.

Can you expand on Yurislot/Kid? You had them as obvtown for the D1 wagon earlier?

Are you willing to exchange me the same courtesy, put me as town for now, and willing to solve the puzzle in such a way where we both trust eachothers reads? Because I think that would put us in a pretty good spot here to get somewhere.

[Vecna]

Ok im gonna go on the cocky train again, and put up the people that I think would be able to think this through to the level that Notice just portrayed. From what I know about these people (and it might not be enough, but alas) - theres only 5/6 people here that id think were gonna orchestrate such a plan.

Vecna
Mastina
Titus (probably gone too early though)
Leonshade
Nero Cain
Pine (I guess? his portrayal of Caesar shows quite the hidden intellect id say)

I know it isnt me. Notice trying to frame himself only to later be able to fall back on it by outing it, is a very small possibility - but unlikely.

Nero Cain is a possibility. He's been hard on the attack on certain people that are widely townread. Ive stated earlier I think it could be possible he's scum since he reminds me of DeathNote Nero - but his current posting is going way beyond that. His posts are very well thought out generally - so if its him he's really trying to make this his scum magnum opus or some shit.

Leonshade - A real contender. Ive seen in Code Geass this guy is very smart when he wants to. The only thing that gives me doubts here is that id suspect he wouldnt have trouble to keep up appearances going into today, but he's just fallen off so much.

Pine: Insufficient information to judge the likelyhood.

[Vecna]

Ego doesn't have a point. It is what it is. The same as shooting as soon as possible as a vig, it's the ego of thinking you're better than everyone else and can pull off pro plays and will be nightkilled if you don't take the shot asap. I can't really explain it right now but it's something where I don't think ego needs a purpose beyond "I am so much better than everyone else that I can do this", especially when you're already winning in a game.

True, but let me tell you one thing: I had a massive moment of weakness this game where I nearly replaced out. If I was scum, I wouldnt be proud of having to resort to such cheap tactics, not at all (and I really dont think id ever use them either). And I certaintly wouldnt go on a huge ego-spree in such a needless way, when its not needed. As scum I use my ego when it helps further my wincondition, not to just show off. Not sure if the people in PYP can confirm that or not, but thats how I view it at least.

[Vecna]

Ok im gonna go on the cocky train again, and put up the people that I think would be able to think this through to the level that Notice just portrayed. From what I know about these people (and it might not be enough, but alas) - theres only 5/6 people here that id think were gonna orchestrate such a plan.

Vecna
Mastina
Titus (probably gone too early though)
Leonshade
Nero Cain
Pine (I guess? his portrayal of Caesar shows quite the hidden intellect id say)

I know it isnt me. Notice trying to frame himself only to later be able to fall back on it by outing it, is a very small possibility - but unlikely.

Nero Cain is a possibility. He's been hard on the attack on certain people that are widely townread. Ive stated earlier I think it could be possible he's scum since he reminds me of DeathNote Nero - but his current posting is going way beyond that. His posts are very well thought out generally - so if its him he's really trying to make this his scum magnum opus or some shit.

Leonshade - A real contender. Ive seen in Code Geass this guy is very smart when he wants to. The only thing that gives me doubts here is that id suspect he wouldnt have trouble to keep up appearances going into today, but he's just fallen off so much.

Pine: Insufficient information to judge the likelyhood.

proof im still being underestimated

You werent here at the start of this game, and im unfamiliair with you. But dont t worry, youre not giving off the vibe of a dummy, and even though i think your towb since the replace in youre definately part of the people that could be faking it.

[Vecna]

Apparently hes VLA until the 18th, i suggest we wait until then

This is so strange after voting him, bringing his lynch closer but at the same time creating the opportunity to blame a mislynch on someone else (if hes town ofc)

Reminder for self in case of a leon townflip

[Vecna]

Please, I'm pretty sure this is scum that isn't even trying to look useful.

Creatures posts here are looking a bit forced. Not a lot if thought behind it, just random postings. Theee types of posta id almost expect from a scum creature.

[Vecna]

Like I hate that my scumreads are on Gork but I have not seen a single Leonshade is scum reason why. Ewwwwwwwww

Interesting because I haven't seen a single decent reason why Gork is scum either.

Wasn't WWE multiball?

Leonshade is tonally different from all his Town games.

Out of tone, why?

Disregard this because I found a scumgame where he is tonally the same as his Town game.

Does Vecna play like this as town? I'm wondering.

He's more laid back in the Town games I've read.

Let's do Caesar, they're just blending in.

Why haven't you been doing any readslists?

Which towngames are those i wonder? Because this is fairly inaccurate

[Vecna]

If it came from anyone else id be all over it Nero, absolutely.

I'm debating whether or not this is the 5th scum.

I'm also worried that he's floating the idea that Leon is a Gork buddy so scum can get a mislynch out of the Gork scum flip.

And im worried that youre worried about us flipping both your buddies consecutively.

Respond to my reasons for the suggestions, or else just hush hush and stop shading me with these silly subtle suggestions where you hope others will pick up the pitchforks for you.

[Vecna]

but even then I'd lynch all of Nancy, Math, Senpai and Gork before Vecna.

That warms my heart at least

[Vecna]

Senator nancy, we return thy affection with Our own Imperial magnanimity.

We would caution that, in Our experience, those who are run up quickly and against whom there is both little evidence and lackluster support tend towards innocence. Those who are perennial suspects but cannot quite garner support for conviction tend towards being criminals whose confederates decline to support said conviction.

It is Our belief that we see such a situation with the traitors Vecna, Leonshade, and Lil Uzi Vert, all of whom We perceive to be broadly suspected, but against whom charges are stubbornly resistant.

If you'd actually believed this drivel you wouldve acted upon one of those many requests to put forth some actual reasoning that is a bit more indepth than just using funny roleplaying gimmicky words.

[Vecna]

Glorious Caesar greets the new Senators, and presumes that they shall serve the patricians they represent with dedication and wit.

We are most pleased with the foiling of whatever Barbarian plots were attempted in the night, and have little regret for the condemnation of the late Senator Sondam. While their innocence has since been proven, We feel that they were more useful to Our cause as a momentary diversion in the arena than any efforts they attempted in the Senate chambers.

We shall collect Ourself and present Our cause against the heathens Vecna and Leonshade later this day.

Augustus Caesar

Underlined for emphasis.

You can't honestly expect me to be okay with a Leonshade lynch going through if you don't even want to provide your reasoning for it. How the fuck am I supposed to sort your slot lmfao

Awesome, im not the only one.

I propose we give the slot another 72 hours before we unequivocally end him.

[Vecna]

Being shut down so much? You didnt exactly do a lot so far this game, so this sentiment feels fake.

man fuck off vecna.

just because i havent posted a shit-ton doesnt mean i havent done anything.
even if its not in the literal thread.
and its demotivating as fuck for people to potshot me nonstop.

are you seriously so confident in your read on me that youre willing to literally box me in a corner and confbias me to death instead of trying to directly engage me on something actually game related that isnt just calling me awkward?

Im not stopping you from just ignoring these posts and doing actual game related posting. Itd be kind of refreshing.

[Vecna]

I'm considering starting a blacklist and have Alisae + nancy for the opening if they're town.

Wth is this nonsense? Their play is fine and way above average this game if theyre town. Its even more impressive if scum.

Kinds puzzled how a town creature could have such ideas aboit the gamestate.

[Vecna]

I was keeping up with this up until ABR got lynched which you should all be fucking ashamed of by the way so I've only got ~150 more pages to go?

What makes you say this crap? ABR lynch was fine, and his "via-frogger" omgus on me was one of the most rediculous things ive ever seen in a game of mafia.

At any rate, finally some activity in this slot

[Vecna]

I must be in your must live pile. I even have a feeling that Creature and Maxous are the same alignment. It would be odd if they weren't.

If Maxous is Town then Caesar and Vecna are scum.

What makes you say stuff like this?

[Vecna]

Nancy is scum
Gork is scum
Math is scum
Senpai is scum
RC is scum.

Did you just call Notice scum? Notice? The most obvtown player in this game? You really just called Notice scum?

Notice really isnt obvtown this gsme though. That live interaction we had definately moved him to more likely but....

Trying to decide whether the RC replace in action is made to disrupt current wagons or is actually a pretty sane turn of events.

[Vecna]

No other reasons, though? Just that they "corroborated a lie"? They're not a girl, btw.

I'm obvtown because I've been the only Town doing any significant gamesolving for the past two days, Notice is obvtown because they AtE'd me into believing it.

Excuse me?

[Vecna]

I'm obvtown because I've been the only Town doing any significant gamesolving for the past two days

And I haven't? Not Vecna? Not Creature?

Really? My efforts are being compared to creatures?

[Vecna]

Vecna has been spamming the game with walls, not gamesolving.

So live chatting with your bf to get a read on him isnt gamesolving huh? Or any of the other shit? Hmmmmm this nonsense i do not like.

[Vecna]

Out of all my posts, I feel like 11069 is one of my most genuine posts.

I agree with it btw, dont get me wrong. And im going to be wagoning caesar ABR style if he doesnt start to do AI shit soon.

Just the barrage of posts before it feels like youre just throwing out posts for the sake of throwing out posts.

[Vecna]

the Caesar slot has 72 real life hours remaining to meet the demands for in depth reasoning over his reads. Failing this, this vote shall be permanent for the remainder of the game, or untill either me or he has been killed. This is not a bluff.

VOTE: caesar

[Vecna]

How can PoE be used to go from 1 townread to two scumreads? Explain it to me.

[Vecna]

As in, you say if 1 slot (maxous) isnt scum....then two others have to be?

Also please answer my other question. What game did you read of mine to conclude im more easy going as town?

[Vecna]

Is that adressed at me or nancy?

[Vecna]

Notice how as soon as I'm in the scum brigade starts throwing their votes around and trying to develop new wagons while not actually addressing that wagon?

That's not a coincidence.

Whose this scum brigade?

[Vecna]

Max what's your read on Nero?

I was strongly town-reading in the early days, plus that read was backed up by Pine's confident meta read on Nero.

My read on him has been starting to sour though, idk.

Really now? And why is that? Because his posts have gotten longer and more coherant as the days have passed. Not saying its strongly town-indicative, but id like to hear your reasons for this.

[Vecna]

How can PoE be used to go from 1 townread to two scumreads? Explain it to me.

Reads-based PoE, I have slots that I'm confident in my reads on and slots that I'm not.

As in, you say if 1 slot (maxous) isnt scum....then two others have to be?

Also please answer my other question. What game did you read of mine to conclude im more easy going as town?

Several games, but it's mostly irrelevant.

Neither of these answers actually answer my questions. Even if youre confident in a read or not....how can maxous going from town -> scum mean that TWO others players suddenly become scum together? (especially two players that fmpov make absolutely NO SENSE together).

As for the second part....I dont even have SEVERAL games as town on this site, definately not several where I play easy-going. And its definately not irrelevant since youre coming up with made up meta to be suspicious of me and then avoiding the question as what its based on.

Suspicion of Nancy is increasing. Answer my questions please.

[Vecna]

Leon's town he's just bad.

Town Leon is not bad

[Vecna]

Fuckkk RC is town and Nero is scum

VOTE: Nero Cain

Nero being scum makes so much sense but I ignored it because ABR flipped town

Can you explain this Leon? Id like your posts to go back to Day1 reasoning again. Im not gonna do a readslist for a while, and I WANT YOU TO DO THEM. And be thorough please. Id like to get a solid read on your allignment again.

[Vecna]

I'd also like an explanation for why I killed Frogger.

I thought you said he was killed for being town.

yes, a scum team containing me would kill someone that was town reading me so I ask who are my buddies.

But I thought we shouldn't look into why he was nightkilled because he was killed for being town.

Davesaz, Cloud, maybe LUV?

If Nero is scum, his obvious buddies are Caesar and Yuri. Just FYI.

[Vecna]

Like I'm not 100% positive that Leon is town but I like their play this game. They took contrarian stances when there was no need for them to. There's been a shitty 'town consensus' led by scum that's lead to town lynches for days on end and they've generally stood against it. They have some things that look weird at the surface level like the Nero one but I fully can see that as coming from town in that situation. I think a lot of their reads are bad, notably their read on my slot, but I think that they come from town.

Kidamn is suggesting that Nero Cain is the scum counterwagon to Gorkington even though

1) RC replacing in and deathtunneling him hasn't gotten the wagon going
2) The wagon composition was RC/Alisae/nancy/Mathblade/Leon and even if he scumreads Leon that's still four town
3) The wagon from when Gorkington had 7 votes was MINIMUM 3 scum. Cloud, Nero, davesaz, LUV, Vecna on one wagon?

Do you think that scum are bussing here?

You like Leonshade's play, but one post earlier you indicate that im potentially scum.

Talk to me about this: Has Leonshade been a watered down Vecna, with exactly similair reads, YES or NO? If YES - Analyse who had the reads earlier and which wouldve copied whom.

Then adress your internal logic afterwards. TY.

[Vecna]

Like I'm not 100% positive that Leon is town but I like their play this game. They took contrarian stances when there was no need for them to. There's been a shitty 'town consensus' led by scum that's lead to town lynches for days on end and they've generally stood against it. They have some things that look weird at the surface level like the Nero one but I fully can see that as coming from town in that situation. I think a lot of their reads are bad, notably their read on my slot, but I think that they come from town.

Also, argue how everything youve stated here doesnt apply to Nero. Because all of this applies nearly 100% to Nero. Which youre death-tunneling. I dont know if its AI for Nero, but your internal logic is fishy. Why does it make Leonshade town but Nero deathtunnel material?

[Vecna]

I'm waiting to hammer.

The hammer duty is mine now, you've been re-assigned to active voting duty with some explaining every here and there.

Go at it soldier.

[Vecna]

I'm sheeping RC because I don't have the ability to get town to work together or be cohesive and yeah

You can do more than you think. Especially now that you managed to make my scumread of you disappear.

[Vecna]

You're my top TR

Welcome to the club, took you a while though since it was obvious since his very first post.

[Vecna]

jesus fucking christ there hasn't been a case for Leon scum any more than there's been a case for Gorkington scum they're both shitty wagons on town that scum were indifferent too

But theres been a case on Nero, right?

[Vecna]

I didn't have to replace into a slot I knew was town in a game where town is getting fucking shit on and try to salvage one day for you guys and get immediately nightkilled

And how did you knew the slot was town? Because it has been rather vague for everyone that correctly ignored the few things Drixx did in the very first resolution phase.

[Vecna]

Vecna help me save Nero and push the Leonshade wagon.

Not quite sure I want to, yet. Im rather intrigued by these recent devellopments.

[Vecna]

Venca first of all I'm townreading you so I already decided the tonal difference is irrelevant (you're more forceful and rigid with your tone here whereas in those games you seemed more chilled out, I guess because you're assuming the role of Town leader), second of all there is a result that indicates that Maxous and Creature share alignments, third I read Death Note and Code Geass.

Alright thank you, that satisfies me.

[Vecna]

you voted fucking ABR you don't get to be the arbiter of what is and isn't a mislynch

Stop with this bullshit

[Vecna]

I am radiantcowbells and I am telling you that they are scum and that's better than any case.

If you read any of this game, you'd know this type of stuff is just going to result in a collision of ego's. How about you combine your wonderfull identity with a solid case to get the best of both worlds?

[Vecna]

What policy lynch did I try to start?

[Vecna]

Nancy, please convey to Jaereed that im currently in my "wanting to work with Jaereed" phase. Id like him to make use of that opportunity and help us catch scum and sort this current shenanigans.

[Vecna]

Oh that one. Yes, that one is important.

[Vecna]

But more for like, tomorrow. I think this day is quite likely to get resolved in the coming 48 hours at this pace.

[Vecna]

Also, if you get your way and Nero cain flips scum, Ceasar is next tomorrow even if he becomes the Willy Shakespeare of case-writing.

[Vecna]

Townblock:

Vecna
Nancy
Luv
Alisae
Mathblade

Potentially to give invites to Jaereed and RC.


Scumteam Option 1:

Maxous
Leonshade
Gorkington
(Creature)

Scumteam Option 2:

Nero Cain
Caesar
Yuri/KidAmn
(Leonshade)

Floaters:
Dave/Cloud/RC/Jaereed

[Vecna]

Nero isn't flipping scum, we aren't lynching Nero end of story. Vecna you've been TRing Nero all game don't let that change now.

Not all game, not at all. My current townread of him is under the assumption his scumgame hasnt improved tremendously - AND doesnt improve while the number of ingame days grows larger.

Im still largely on the fence whether his attack on Math + Nancy/Jaereed is brave town digging into the stuff we all feel iffy about, or just scum finding contrarian stances to bring chaos to town.

His posts have become a lot more coherant, long and showing a unified vision of the game than i saw of him in Deathnote. Not conclusive at all, but gun to my head it feels more towny to scummy. Doesnt mean RC cannot be correct, since Nero is obviously a very competent player.

[Vecna]

Oh dont worry Kidamn, that team isnt dependant on Leonshade - its the cuddly nature between the three other slots that gives me that impression. Leon is merely there because I think Gork/Leon were trying to be forcibly bussing eachother today, and Neon was very opinionated of pushing it towards Gorkington - but maybe youre right and it doesnt make sense to have his bracketed name there.

[Vecna]

Scumreading Mathblade isn't contrarian it's fucking ludicrous and comes from scum desperately trying to widen the mislynch pool.

Well......its a thought that probably crossed the mind of many a towny in this game - and I do feel this Math-play is very far removed from the Math I saw in PYP. Also the fact it doesnt stick does mean theres no other scum at all trying to push that agenda.

Id love for Jaereed to come in here and explore that idea he uttered about the scumteam trying to push for him as their next mislynch.

[Vecna]

Also, im just going to put this forward; I could still see a minor connection between Nancy and Nero - where Nero has been hardbussing but is now getting protected by her.

Talking about ludicrous ideas, amirite?

[Vecna]

Also, damn im on fire.

Can we agree were just gonna auto-lynch anyone that doesnt have me at the top of their townreads by now? (poor ceasar/math).

[Vecna]

I still think Neon has the skillset to fake that AtE btw. Im very much on the fence here, and a bit sad that the Gorkington wagon is gone.

[Vecna]

Hmmm crap, just realized I again put up another reads list for Leonshade to copy.

Leon, if youre town - can you please do me the favour of obv-towning it up again? I dont want to mislynch you but at this pace youre giving me little choice.

[Vecna]

RC: your thoughts on my scumteam #1?

[Vecna]

Hmmm what happened to our little live chat. Booooo

[Vecna]

My current townread of him is under the assumption his scumgame hasnt improved tremendously - AND doesnt improve while the number of ingame days grows larger.

If you are basing my game off of Deathnote why would you say this? Even as scum I had much better reads than the town.

Im not basing it on reads

[Vecna]

What exactly are you basing it on then?

Messaging style/length, depth of reasoning that sort of thing.

Your average message length and content has increased a lot since day1 and most stuff has some more in-depth and thought-out reasoning behind it that I didnt see in Deathnote. Ofcourse there you were also only part of a 1scum team and it was only day1.....so its probably a bad comparison regardless.

[Vecna]

the Caesar slot has 72 real life hours remaining to meet the demands for in depth reasoning over his reads. Failing this, this vote shall be permanent for the remainder of the game, or untill either me or he has been killed. This is not a bluff.

VOTE: caesar

49 hours remaining

[Vecna]

Math has been scumreading the Spiff/Nancy slot all game yet Nacy is always on the backburner. Its actully been a large part of why I think they are scum.

I actually think this is not a bad point. The same applies to the slots read on me, and the constant disappearing act from Math. Think about it, when was the last time theyve been pushing anything with conviction?

The same applies to Caesar

The same applies to Maxous

The same applies to.........the Gorkington slot I guess.

Heck, even to creature/Jaereed. and recently to Leonshade.

Id be surprised if theres not at the very least 3 scum in this group.

[Vecna]

A birthday is one day. Its been literally 2 weeks

[Vecna]

Okay LUV, who we gonna kill?

[Vecna]

A replace out for non-game reasons is null. A replace out for in-game reasons is not.

Spiffeh replaced out because of players claiming and fishing for PRs. That is a town player being annoyed at the game state. Scum does not replace out for that reason.

Only if theyre scum together with Math, annoyed at the picking/announcement of that wonder.

[Vecna]

VOTE: Gorkington

[Vecna]

A case could be made for anyone to be a mislynch. Unless the scum completely in the lurkers theyve had a very decent performance up untill this points so id like something a bit further-going than that.

[Vecna]

I still think theyll both flip red Nancy.

The sudden Bus-Bus between the two slots.

The sudden halt to scumreading and pushing eachother because both went inactive when I stated it was likely a SvS thing.

The sudden jump onto Nero now.

[Vecna]

Even if frogger was 100% false in his reads he'd have been a great nightkill. (doesnt mean u cant gleam over them and report back to us though, id actually like someone to do that).

[Vecna]

VOTE: Leonshade

Ill do this then for now.

Another reason im hesitant to vote Leonshade though is that people stated that Pine dont bus. Yet pine has been pushing the slot quite a bit and im still rather suspicious of Pine

[Vecna]

And leon and Caesar.

[Vecna]

The danger ofcourse is....killing someone to eternalize their townreads can also be quite good motivation.

[Vecna]

It might be the case Nero - im finding this a difficult decision.

[Vecna]

Nancy, a question for you - do you feel it indeed has been Jaereed posting only? Id really like him to use my olive branch and start enjoying and posting this game.

[Vecna]

At any rate I feel like I want to lynch in those two a hell of a lot more than Nero atm.

[Vecna]

At any rate, the living have far more information than frogger had and a bunch of my townreads are strong enough for me to have very little doubt in them. We all seem to agree that most of those names mentioned by frogger contain a bunch of scum so it has just come to the point of prioritizing.

[Vecna]

Its not just that LUV.

The elaborate replace out message from Elbirn. The awkward pushes he did during day1, and the tone of almost knowing too much.

One of the main reasons I also felt very suspicious about the slot have been the Notice tunnel first by Elbirn.....followed later by that very strange townread of Gin/Gork by Notice out of the blue.

Its mainly gut and reaches, I know - but the entire slot just feels.....slimy and off.

[Vecna]

that is not why I am scumreading him. I thought Elb was active lurking and Gin's hardcore defense and jump on the Sondam wagon was scummy as F.

Oh yeah, also this.

[Vecna]

So sick of people townreading others because they scumread me.

I claim scum, quicklynch me now.

When did that happen?

[Vecna]

I'm scumreading Maxous strongly and there's a result that Maxous and Creature are the same alignment.

confirm that you are chichen itza.

How about you stop this nonsense?

[Vecna]

UNVOTE: Leonshade

[Vecna]

OK semi-full disclosure the reason I think Gork might be a mislynch is because I'm scumreading Maxous strongly and there's a result that Maxous and Creature are the same alignment. Creature came out with the roleblock on Gork and people piled on his wagon. The entire wagon is Town by my reads except Leonshade. It looks like Town lynching Town to me. The Leonshade wagon only popped up only after I WKed the fuck out of the Gork wagon, so I don't think it was actually a counter.

Based on this we could also lynch Maxous.

[Vecna]

UNVOTE: Leonshade

Why the unvote, you fear hes going to get blitzed?

He was getting blitzed, and were in no hurry.

[Vecna]

I voted for Nero because his posts during the Resolution Phase looked like he posted them just to seem like he was participating in the discussion.

I don't really want to do none. Like its safe and doesn't change anything. I feel like Arts, eventhough I realize that it could backfire on town, could really help too.

if you don't know what any of them do why is one better than the other?

The first of these posts amounts to no conclusion either way. Particularly the "arts could backfire but could also really help" doesn't really show depth in thinking, so I don't really see the need to post it if no real conclusion was drawn?
The second is basically a throw away question (you can check the context yourself).

how do you feel about that Vecna?

Huh, why ask about this of all things?

[Vecna]

errr, thats not the post where Spiff says that Max was "disinterested" oh well too lazy to go quote it.

oh ok, misquote then?

[Vecna]

Keep this wagon around 6 votes btw, theres a few developments I wanna see happen.

[Vecna]

I think were thinking the same thing here. Good

[Vecna]

Spif should prob talk about why he SOLELY scum reading me for that but ignoring Max.

Max's posts didn't really ping me like yours did. I got the vibe he was just uninterested with the Resolution phase which isn't alignment indicative. I do believe his push on me is crap.

Are you scum reading him?

I mean I guess its not impossible that Spiff finds me scummy and not Max (though he later does scumread him) but IDK, I just get such bad vibes from him calling Max "disinterested"

Hmmm not sure if scum is ever gonna remember such details to dredge up later on while trying to tie it to some other strings.

[Vecna]

VOTE: Gorkington

[Vecna]

....14 pages overnight.

Going to find latest VC and see what changed.

NO, youre going to read them, and read them carefully because as Nancy said they were probably the most important pages in the game.

[Vecna]

It was a fabricated counter meant to make us stop after lynching either, and look elsewhere. Both slots were pushing eachother hard and people were just equally piling on. SvS is still most likely imo.

[Vecna]

hmmm the idea of lynching Maxous after that result is also so enticing still though.

Would be kind of funny if scum is simply Gork + Leon + creature + Maxous + someone else.

[Vecna]

hmmm the idea of lynching Maxous after that result is also so enticing still though.

Would be kind of funny if scum is simply Gork + Leon + creature + Maxous + someone else.

Hmmm guess this would be weird though with creature roleblocking his teammate......

For that reason also, lynching Maxous would be kinda cool since it could townclear Gorker if were wrong there. That would also make Leonshade all the more likely (although a wagon starting up to save a towny is maybe less likely to yield proper conclusions).

[Vecna]

Yep Math, good that youre being sharp and present again. Join in on this musing so we can lock down our lynch for the day.

[Vecna]

The AtE, the wild panic, the way he threw himself at everything as if it were his last gasp, it just doesn't come from scum the way he did it.

Hmmm dont be -too certain- of this quite yet, I could see Nero fake this. I think its not what happened, but it could be what happened.

[Vecna]

VOTE: Maxous

[Vecna]

Btw, whoever decided to use the double wonder on Maxous + Creature, kudo's.

[Vecna]

Hope our doctors have been paying more attention than the scumteam though because I think I have deduced the owner of Chichen Itza.

[Vecna]

Join us in our little cohesive party Ali. The townblock has arrived.

[Vecna]

The result confirmed Maxous as town, not Creature as scum.

If you scumread me, lynch me today. It'll show how ass-backwards your reads are.

I dont know if the three of you as town can fit with any of my working scenarios.....Like unless theres more than 2 scum in cloud/RC/Math/Nero/

[Vecna]

Math, please.....let go of that slots read just based purely on a few lines from Drixx.

[Vecna]

Townblock:

Vecna
Nancy
Luv
Alisae
Mathblade

Potentially to give invites to Jaereed and RC.


Scumteam Option 1:

Maxous
Leonshade
Gorkington
(Creature)

Scumteam Option 2:

Nero Cain
Caesar
Yuri/KidAmn
(Leonshade)

Floaters:
Dave/Cloud/RC/Jaereed

Nancy, given recent devellopments - how do you feel about these ideas I floated earlier? Can you see my reasoning here of two potential scumteams? Are you seeing the same global outlines of two different teams?

Try and mix in your own reads and see where we get with this? Maybe we can find the ideal lynch for the day that gives us a ton of guidelines for lynches going further, regardless if its a town or scum flip.

[Vecna]

Option two could also have Gorkington and cloudkicked attached to it id say based on recent developments. Besides after reading that recent gunslingers game, Nero has become more aware that he needs to bus earlier so id not be surprised if he is scum that he's actively trying to bus today. It fits with general bussing-timing.

[Vecna]

With Nero he is trying to paint people as liars as scum where as Town he lets the facts do it.

Nero/Vecna/nancy/Cloud

Wait, youre scumreading me and Nancy here?

Go read those last 15 pages you missed.

[Vecna]

Also, Mathblade fits decently well with team1 if were wrong about the town assumption.

Can someone link me some Titus-scum games? I need to do some investigating there since Titus was awfully quick to TR me which usually doesnt happen.

[Vecna]

Also some mathblade scumgames maybe.

This scumread on me is just lol-worthy at this point

[Vecna]

This constant shade of me from Vecna is p bad.

What are you talking about? What shade? Im just trying to solve the game, stop whining.

[Vecna]

Because Titus was part of the DEO slot. My conclusion is still that the slot is most likely town.

[Vecna]

That moment where u wanna go home to play Path of Exile but the raid is so bad

[Vecna]

rain even.

[Vecna]

Not be so damn trollish as in any scum-game ive ever seen from her for one.

[Vecna]

i really dont think its as simple as his playstyle?
at all?

its also weird as fuck that hes been floating davesaz as scum for ages now but trusts his result on creature/max without the slightest of doubt.

You really are all over the place. Also nice to ignore all my posts on the topic of why I think youre scum and only refer to me pushing "both you and Leon"

[Vecna]

I really don't have the energy for this.

Vecna, I told you what I felt was happening, I don't know what more you want from me on it. Some guidance on that would help.
Creature, it's incredibly demotivating to have you repeatedly say mastina isn't posting therefore I'm scum when it was mentioned prior to the game even starting that mastina would not be an active player.
Maxous is town because Creature is town, unless we're positing <redacted> as scum trying to make a scum buddy a townread through pairing him with obvtown Creature.

Also, Mausoleum can back me up that the early TR on Gin was a poor reaction test to see how he would react to getting an easy TR for something he didn't really deserve to have because Alibae had pointed out the obvious before him. This is not a call for Mausoleum to do so, ftr, I don't think it's necessary at this point, just...meh, people keep bringing that up and it's mildly annoying that I'm getting bitched at for it.

Some interaction, interpretation....not just static opinions but showing us how stuff thats happening affects you & your thinking? Also, you really cannot just keep stating that every time someone questions something you do that it annoys you or w/e, this is Mafia, were neither a bunch of psychics nor part of some lovable pony orgy.

[Vecna]

Also, the way these two camps start shaping up almost makes it feel like this game is multi-ball after all.

[Vecna]

i really dont think its as simple as his playstyle?
at all?

its also weird as fuck that hes been floating davesaz as scum for ages now but trusts his result on creature/max without the slightest of doubt.

How have I been floating Davesaz as scum for ages? It was like literally a period of 24 hours last day or something. Also this second statement almost feels like youre fishing whether im the chichen itza....there no need Gorkington, I already claimed what wonder I have and its not that one.

[Vecna]

i really dont think its as simple as his playstyle?
at all?

its also weird as fuck that hes been floating davesaz as scum for ages now but trusts his result on creature/max without the slightest of doubt.

How have I been floating Davesaz as scum for ages? It was like literally a period of 24 hours last day or something. Also this second statement almost feels like youre fishing whether im the chichen itza....there no need Gorkington, I already claimed what wonder I have and its not that one.

Actually the second statement is the opposite, reread it.

Hmmm I wasnt aware of that, mustve missed or it wrong assumption by the slot.

[Vecna]

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=70036

just look at RC flailing around. THIS is RC town. Whatever is in this game is not RC town.

Had to search too long for RC's name in that game and got bored. Settled on SSBM's Iso instead. Realized the slot is scum in this game. Nice

[Vecna]

Also, the way these two camps start shaping up almost makes it feel like this game is multi-ball after all.

We've gone 3 night phases without having 2 kills in a night. I'm willing to bet it's not multi-ball at this stage.

Yeah I wasnt being completely serious, obviously its not multiball - its just funny that theres almost two camps forming.

[Vecna]

Also, the way these two camps start shaping up almost makes it feel like this game is multi-ball after all.

We've gone 3 night phases without having 2 kills in a night. I'm willing to bet it's not multi-ball at this stage.

Agreed. Vecna likes mechanics. No way a town Vecna does that.

Hohoho, look at who is taking my post stating "that the way camps start forming ALMOST makes it feels like its metaball" to me actually think that and missing the most obvious mechanical flaw to my plan. C'mon now Mathblade, at least come up with proper reasoning if youre gonna be so insistant and missing the obvious.

[Vecna]

First let's note that the teams here have four people and PV is missing which generally is a nod to my PV is scum theory and probably a scum claim from Vecna and if Vecna thought PV was town and based on what he said at the start of the game his scum team options would have 5 people. Setting that aside for the moment we go into these scum team suggestions more in depth.

Scum team option 1 of Maxous Leonshade Gorkington (originally Elbrin) and (Creature) not sure why the parenthesis from Vecna but I'm going to roll with it for now.
This sample of a VC was at Yuri's peak

Yuri (9): Lil Uzi Vert, Akane and Nebby, Vecna, Spiffeh, beeboy, Fro99er, The DEO, Nero Cain, Leonshade
beeboy (4): ssbm_Kyouko, PeregrineV, Yuri, Albert B. Rampage

And this is what happens an hour later.
beeboy (5): ssbm_Kyouko, PeregrineV, Yuri, Albert B. Rampage, Spiffeh
Yuri (4): Vecna, beeboy, Nero Cain, Leonshade

This team would mean that none of the scum team suggested by Vecna as Vecna isn't going to suggest themselves being town until the 9th vote on Yuri. This would mean an all town wagon for the first 8 votes on Yuri. That almost never happens barring someone being absolutely ridiculous and so antitown everyone can't stand them (see me in SU2). Yuri was lurking pretty hard core at the start of the game.

This makes that first team rather unlikely. Now let's look at the second suggestion more in depth.

Interesting........it could also mean the first team is correct and Yuri is their 5th, no?

[Vecna]

If Maxous is scum, I'm also scum.

Remember that.

Yeah the coloured teams were made before that result was broadcasted - the brackers for that team1 composition around your name should no longer be there.

[Vecna]

The second team presented with Nero/Caesar/Yuri (KidAmn)/Leonshade.

This however is truly odd as well. Knowing beeboy is town, this would require Leonshade and Nero Cain scumreads for that theory to remain on Yuri. I can see one scum remaining but not two. They were online at the time because they came in towards the end of the Yuri wagon. Bussing that hard at the end of the day generally gets looked at pretty hard, I doubt two scum would pile on a third towards the end of the day. Not only would it make a Yuri lynch likely but then one of themselves as well. The nancy/spiffeh slot would have to replace one of those members pulling the lynch off of Yuri to make sense since that slot was the catalyst off the Yuri slot.

More recent thoughts have made links to Gorkington and Cloudkicker for that composition. Those would make a bit more sense given this I think?

[Vecna]

So in short it is almost certain Vecna's scum teams are horribly flawed at this point.

Namely I also find that with the scumreads disappearing off the Yuri/Vecna slots not entering into Vecna's reads is fishy as fuck.

Vecna needs to reexamine its' reads.

If you had read the last 25 pages, you'd have seen that that is something that has been going on

At any rate, its hard to take 500 pages into account when just putting my impressions out there, you can take it down a notch on the shading. But I do appreciate in your inputs since they have some valid concerns (but also take into account that unlikely does not always mean untrue).

[Vecna]

beeboy

(11): ssbm_Kyouko, PeregrineV, Spiffeh, Elbirn,

Albert B. Rampage

,

Fro99er

, Creature, Akane and Nebby, Leonshade, Drixx, Yuri

Albert B. Rampage

(5): Lil Uzi Vert, Vecna,

The DEO

,

beeboy

, Caesar Wills It

With the end of day one we have lynch on beeboy who is town, a counterwagon on ABR who is town, and Yuri wagon of unknown alignment that disappeared.

ssbm_Kyouko, PeregrineV, Spiffeh, Elbirn, Creature, Akane and Nebby, Leonshade, Drixx, Yuri

Taking out the confirmed town this leaves the group ssbm_Kyouko/Cloudkicker, PeregrineV, Spiffeh/nancy, Elbirn/Gorkington, Creature, Akane and Nebby, Leonshade, Drixx, Yuri.

At the height of the Yuri wagon the following players have unknown alignments (removing myself as I am town): Lil Uzi Vert, Akane and Nebby, Vecna, Spiffeh/nancy, Nero Cain, Leonshade

The people not on Yuri but on beeboy are: Cloudkicker, PV, Vecna, and Yuri.

So if you scumread Yuri at least one of Cloudkicker, PV, Vecna need to be scum with Yuri with a side of spiffeh/nancy. More reasoning why Vecna isn't trying to use the entire game to form his reads he's going for what is popular and what "sounds good". So if Yuri is scum then nancy probably is too.

Therefore if you scumread Yuri at least one of Cloudkicker or PV or Vecna has to be scum with

My name appears in both lists and im pretty sure I was on Yuri. Also, bussing is ofcourse a thing but I do indeed think the bussers would have to be in Nero/Leonshade here.

[Vecna]

How have I been floating Davesaz as scum for ages? It was like literally a period of 24 hours last day or something. Also this second statement almost feels like youre fishing whether im the chichen itza....there no need Gorkington, I already claimed what wonder I have and its not that one.

how does this address what im actually saying?
dont move the goalpost.
why are you taking dave's claim at face value if youre suspicious of him?

and i have no idea what happened when you were writing the second half of this post.

I have no idea why you think it was Davesaz that has Chichen itza? Like did I miss something obvious here? either way, if I did miss it - you bringing it up so everyone is aware isnt really the stuff of legends.

[Vecna]

is everything okay vecna?

Everything is fine, but trying to push me as scum (if youre actually town) is not going to be very productive.

[Vecna]

Spoiler: Main D2 wagons

Main Wagon 1
Caesar Wills It (6): Creature, Spiffeh, Akane and Nebby,

The DEO

, Brian Skies, Elbirn

Main Wagon 2

Albert B. Rampage

(6): Lil Uzi Vert, Leonshade,

MathBlade

, nancy, Vecna, Akane and Nebby

Main Wagon 3
Vecna (7): Caesar Wills It, Nero Cain,

Albert B. Rampage

, Elbirn, Maxous, Brian Skies, nancy

Albert B. Rampage

(5): Lil Uzi Vert,

MathBlade

, Vecna, Akane and Nebby, davesaz
ssbm_Kyouko (4): Yuri, Leonshade, Maxous, Akane and Nebby


Vecna (7): Caesar Wills It, Nero Cain,

Albert B. Rampage

, Elbirn, Brian Skies, nancy, Creature

Albert B. Rampage

(4): Lil Uzi Vert,

MathBlade

, Vecna, davesaz
ssbm_Kyouko (4): Yuri, Leonshade, Maxous, Akane and Nebby

These were the main D2 wagons. The lynch then was switched to ABR.

Now if we assume Yuri is scum then almost certainly the ssbm slot/Cloudkicker slot is town due to how long the Yuri slot left their vote on ssbm. Keep in mind scum would have likely built daychat at this point (assuming they are not idiots and with three mislynches I'm okay assuming that I think) and scum likely have night chat so almost certainly I don't see if Yuri scum them baby sitting their vote on scum that long with all that going on.

The people not on Yuri but on beeboy are and are not a person Yuri sat their vote on:PV and Vecna.

So if Yuri is scum then nancy most likely is and at least one of PV/Vecna probably is.

This post contains errors math. Scum leaving their vote on a teammate as an easy park happens rather often, since its the easiest place to have it parked since you'll always have an explanation (and atm I think Yuri + cloudkicker is actually a rather likely scum combination). The conclusion about me is false as well since I was actually on Yuri.

[Vecna]

Albert B. Rampage (10): Lil Uzi Vert, Vecna, davesaz, Leonshade, MathBlade, Caesar Wills It, nancy, Akane and Nebby, ssbm_Kyouko, Brian Skies
ssbm_Kyouko (6): Yuri, Maxous, Creature, Nero Cain, Albert B. Rampage, PeregrineV

Coming back to the end of the day if Yuri is scum then that's two wagons on town at the end of the day. This makes Sondam, NoticeMeSenpai, and Elbrin would have one scum in it, if any.
So any team with NoticeMeSenpai and Elbrin in it together is probably wrong.

You put too much trust on scum teammembers not parking their vote on eachother. Parking it on eachother there while this big TvT shitfest in me vs ABR is going on is a quite likely scum strategy since itll look better on them later on when people like you do this type of VCA.

[Vecna]

We got 4 days. Who we lynching?

Stop with this shit. we have 6 days left and its PLENTY.

[Vecna]

ok I wanted you, like I was/am town reading Cloud b/c I don't think Cloud is playing like he did as a traitor. Both you and Ali think that's wank. Vecna continues to shade me and lightly call me scum from a game where I was a traitor. Can you explain the difference and why its ok for him but not me?

You do realize ive been saying your play here is much better than in Deathnote right (especially after day2 onward). What is this constant shading youre talking about?

[Vecna]

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=70036

just look at RC flailing around. THIS is RC town. Whatever is in this game is not RC town.

Had to search too long for RC's name in that game and got bored. Settled on SSBM's Iso instead. Realized the slot is scum in this game. Nice

???? That's actually a reason I was town reading Cloud since these two games seem pretty similar to each other. Could you help explain the diffrences between SSBM's play in this game and that game.

Alright, I can do some more deep-level digging but in that game he feels to be freely posting a lot more? I just did a surface level read of his iso and it didnt match to my memory on SSBM this game (I had a slightly tingling earlier he also felt different in Code geass).

[Vecna]

Yes, I do think youre part of one of two possible scumteams. Yammering about me shading you because im doing my job doesnt really impress me.

And I think we both know some case isnt going to work here, even if you are scum.

[Vecna]

Vecna how does Yuri/Nero/Cloud sound to you

Pretty sure thats exactly the combination I just mentioned somewhere in one of my catchup posts?

[Vecna]

The second team presented with Nero/Caesar/Yuri (KidAmn)/Leonshade.

This however is truly odd as well. Knowing beeboy is town, this would require Leonshade and Nero Cain scumreads for that theory to remain on Yuri. I can see one scum remaining but not two. They were online at the time because they came in towards the end of the Yuri wagon. Bussing that hard at the end of the day generally gets looked at pretty hard, I doubt two scum would pile on a third towards the end of the day. Not only would it make a Yuri lynch likely but then one of themselves as well. The nancy/spiffeh slot would have to replace one of those members pulling the lynch off of Yuri to make sense since that slot was the catalyst off the Yuri slot.

More recent thoughts have made links to Gorkington and Cloudkicker for that composition. Those would make a bit more sense given this I think?

Like, right here? And yes, Yuri was allready there in the original composition.

[Vecna]

Ok so short to do list; see if a team composition can be made that makes some sense with voting/behaviour around the day 1/2 wagons. Update the two team/tiers.

Check into that SSBM iso to see if my initial idea chops wood.

[Vecna]

Also, trying to pocket me by writing me off as something thats beyond obvious at this point isnt going to get you candy.

[Vecna]

Townlocks;

Nancy
Alisae
Math
LUV
Vecna
Jaereed?
DaveSaz? (will have to read up as well to see if he indeed is the obv Chichen-guy since I missed that)

TEAM 1:
Nero Cain - interesting to see if this team also makes sense without Nero potentially
Cloudkicker
Gorkington - could be scum pissed at being scumread for the wrong reasons by being incorrectly linked to Leon
Ceasar
(Yuri)

TEAM 2:
Leonshade
Maxous
Creature
(Gorkington)
(Yuri) think this fits here as well
(RC)

Something along these lines.....No Math, I did not check yet whether this all makes 100% sense with everything that has happened this game.

[Vecna]

I thought your AtE-spree was done Nero? There really is no reason for this continuous beligerence

[Vecna]

Except youre not, and youre just attacking my efforts while there also is a VIABLE alternative that should fit with most of your own reads (well if youre willing to let go of Nancy/Math, but that doesnt appear to be the case).

There also is a much smaller option for a third team that ive been entertaining for a long time now, but it seems to be less and less likely over time.

A team that includes 2 out of these 3: Nancy/Alisae/Jaereed

[Vecna]

Yammering about me shading you because im doing my job doesnt really impress me.

like this is plenty hypocritical 'cause when people accuse you of being scum you yell and beat your chest about how you are "obvtown" and you aren't.

A notion that is only brought up by Math or people under pressure. A notion I couldnt care less about, and one that ill ignore going forward.

[Vecna]

Remember when you 1v1ed ABR and you said "scum can't (or won't) do that" it is entirely possible that scum would do that.

Noone ever said they wouldnt. Good luck to scum faking the depth of thought patterns/investigation though and keeping it in such a way that noone can argue against it or show me where theres scum thought patterns behind it

[Vecna]

Well maybe I did say they wouldnt at the time because I wanted ABR lynched, but thats beside the point. At any rate, id highly doubt scum are going to do it in that fashion when theres plenty of other mislynches availlable.

[Vecna]

viewtopic.php?p=8829772&user_select%5B% ... 0#p8829772

viewtopic.php?p=8735959&user_select%5B% ... 0#p8735959

Ok going to go back on what I claimed earlier. Reading both Iso's actually refreshed my memory as to why I mild TR on SSBM day1/2 - and Nero is actually correct that the playstyles are eerily similar. Not sure why my mind played a trick on me, probably because my strong townread on cloudkicker has been slowly waning recently.

Some more townpoints for Nero calling me out on it and being correct.

[Vecna]

right so, me tilting my head that you continue to have me as a substantially strong scum read despite no rhyme or reason is scummy but when anyone even looks at you funny you go into (fake?) bravado mode and no one should suspect you. I mean, if you are scum then its not like I'm going to get you to admit it and its not impossible that you are just town with his head so far up his ass he's oblivious to how hypocritical this is. Get off your high horse bro.

Alright

[Vecna]

Townlocks;

Nancy
Alisae
Math
LUV
Vecna
Jaereed?
DaveSaz? (will have to read up as well to see if he indeed is the obv Chichen-guy since I missed that)

TEAM 1:

Nero Cain - interesting to see if this team also makes sense without Nero potentially

Cloudkicker

Gorkington - could be scum pissed at being scumread for the wrong reasons by being incorrectly linked to Leon
Ceasar
(Yuri)

TEAM 2:
Leonshade
Maxous
Creature
(Gorkington)
(Yuri) think this fits here as well
(RC)

Something along these lines.....No Math, I did not check yet whether this all makes 100% sense with everything that has happened this game.

VOTE: Leonshade

Most posts from Ceasar without explaining any of his reads. Tomorrow is death-tunnel on Caesar day.

[Vecna]

Nancy
Alisae
Math
LUV
Vecna
Jaereed?
DaveSaz? (will have to read up as well to see if he indeed is the obv Chichen-guy since I missed that)

your top 3 town reads have done nothing but lynch and vote town. (lynched Bee, ABR. TBF DEO wasn't on the Bee wagon but they were scumreading them and Bee was hammered b4 they joined the wagon)

Maybe Nancy is right about RC, it seems highly possible. LUV is doing shit all. He's saying that I should be townreading him for Raw and while I guess I can see similarities it seems fairly different at the same time.

I'm not sure why Jae is suddenly a top town read after you were hard scumreading him.

I know this Nero, but lynching town is part of the process of becoming enlightened

And yes, im still somewhat suspicious of the Alisae/Jaereed combo. Im putting them in the townread pile because theyve been using my shade/scumread as a reason why theyre not enjoying this game so I want to give them some space to come out and hunt without my interference.

[Vecna]

Lets put leonshade into the ground. It serves a purpose for you since you get to spit at Mathblade some more who has been opposing the wagon rather hard.

[Vecna]

Batshit fucking stupid, nice

[Vecna]

See Nero, even though im batshit fucking stupid - at least im obv-town.

[Vecna]

I don't care what leon flips. I think they're town but them flipping scum doesn't make Nero town. he needs dead.

See Nero, your scumread is suddenly anticipating on a Leon scum-flip after townreading the slot very hard.

Hammer time imo

[Vecna]

UNVOTE: Leonshade

This town actually needs some more time for proper instructions.

PLAN TO VICTORY:

TOWN NEEDS TO TAKE THE NEIGHBOURHOOD AND ROLEBLOCK MIRACLE TODAY. THIS IS OF UTMOST IMPORTANCE

DAVESAZ, WHILE A NOBLE SOUL THAT TRIED TO BE SUBTLE, IS THE CLEAR HOLDER OF CHICHEN ITZA. SCUM KNOWS THIS, AND WE HAVE TO PROTECT HIM AT ALL COSTS

IF WE CAN GET THE ROLEBLOCK ON TOWN, WE KNOW THAT IT COULD ONLY BE CREATURE (=double scum lynch in case of roleblock)

BOTH TOWN DOCTORS SHOULD BE ON DAVESAZ. NEIGHBOURHOOD WONDER CAN INVITE DAVE + SOMEONE ELSE THEYD LIKE TO PROTECT/WIFOM

GOOD DISTRIBUTION OF WONDER SUBMISSION:

2 TOWN FOR THE NEIGHBOURHOOD WONDER

1 TOWN FOR THE TOWN-CONFIRM WONDER (Pref on someone like CEASAR/NERO)

ALL OTHER TOWN ON THE RoleBlock TO DENY IT TO SCUM.

THIS IS OF UTMOST IMPORTANCE.

[Vecna]

Creature, your roleblock tonight is LIMITED to either ME or GORKINGTON. We do not want you to accidentally hit a town-doctor protecting Davesaz

[Vecna]

Davesaz is town though.

[Vecna]

Ok, you guys bore me now

[Vecna]

Creature, can you confirm you'll use your RB on (preferably) Gorkington, or me tonight?

[Vecna]

Agree with 12224.

Good, Roleblock Gorkington if you trust that im town, or just go on me if you think im likely scum to stop any suspicions that my wonder is being used.

[Vecna]

Creature, can you confirm you'll use your RB on (preferably) Gorkington, or me tonight?

Sure.

Though, I don't expect much effect.

Yeah, but roleblocking Gork does tell us something about the janitor wonder. And if Dave does end up rb'd we know that scum had another wonder slot and they picked the RB to stop him from getting more reports.

[Vecna]

VOTE: RC

Its not going to work

[Vecna]

Couldve sworn it was you or Ceasar that had it Notice, with the knowledge being spread through that hood - right untill Gorkington started spanking me in the face with the truth.

At any rate, we should be able to play with the knowledge in broad daylight if we can get that Roleblocker in town hands.

[Vecna]

why is everyone townreading me even though these other dudes are lurking this isn't fair scum caught for the wrong reasons

What? what does this even mean

[Vecna]

Vig is probably in posession of Leonshade the scumlord

[Vecna]

Hey RC, you should probably pick up that allignment confirmation wonder eh. Either you or Caesar.

[Vecna]

Your Emperor deserves more splendid lodging. We have commanded the construction a grand Forbidden Palace, that all may know Our Splendor and Magnificence.

Good

[Vecna]

Caesar, what do you make of the replace-in of RC. Im guessing you have more experience with the slot?

[Vecna]

UNVOTE: Leonshade

This town actually needs some more time for proper instructions.

PLAN TO VICTORY:

TOWN NEEDS TO TAKE THE NEIGHBOURHOOD AND ROLEBLOCK MIRACLE TODAY. THIS IS OF UTMOST IMPORTANCE

DAVESAZ, WHILE A NOBLE SOUL THAT TRIED TO BE SUBTLE, IS THE CLEAR HOLDER OF CHICHEN ITZA. SCUM KNOWS THIS, AND WE HAVE TO PROTECT HIM AT ALL COSTS

IF WE CAN GET THE ROLEBLOCK ON TOWN, WE KNOW THAT IT COULD ONLY BE CREATURE (=double scum lynch in case of roleblock)

BOTH TOWN DOCTORS SHOULD BE ON DAVESAZ. NEIGHBOURHOOD WONDER CAN INVITE DAVE + SOMEONE ELSE THEYD LIKE TO PROTECT/WIFOM

GOOD DISTRIBUTION OF WONDER SUBMISSION:

2 TOWN FOR THE NEIGHBOURHOOD WONDER

1 TOWN FOR THE TOWN-CONFIRM WONDER (Pref on someone like CEASAR/NERO)

ALL OTHER TOWN ON THE RoleBlock TO DENY IT TO SCUM.

THIS IS OF UTMOST IMPORTANCE.

For visibility

[Vecna]

Also, the way these two camps start shaping up almost makes it feel like this game is multi-ball after all.

We've gone 3 night phases without having 2 kills in a night. I'm willing to bet it's not multi-ball at this stage.

Yeah I wasnt being completely serious, obviously its not multiball - its just funny that theres almost two camps forming.

Oh there's two camps forming. You gonna join me on mine? Because I'm obv town and the more you resist the more I feel you're scum.

VOTE: Vecna

Fuck it.

[Vecna]

Ok so short to do list; see if a team composition can be made that makes some sense with voting/behaviour around the day 1/2 wagons. Update the two team/tiers.

Check into that SSBM iso to see if my initial idea chops wood.

And day three too...Gee that sounds like you're trying to beat my VCA I wish you all the luck in the world because you're going to need it. At least you admit your teams don't make sense now. Saves me a shit ton of effort trying to convince everyone else.

THIS POST IS A SCUM CLAIM FROM VECNA!!!!!!!!!!

Actually, this post was me trying to work with you and take your work seriously. Can you please like, stop making that so damn hard?

[Vecna]

Townlocks;

Nancy
Alisae
Math
LUV
Vecna
Jaereed?
DaveSaz? (will have to read up as well to see if he indeed is the obv Chichen-guy since I missed that)

TEAM 1:
Nero Cain - interesting to see if this team also makes sense without Nero potentially
Cloudkicker
Gorkington - could be scum pissed at being scumread for the wrong reasons by being incorrectly linked to Leon
Ceasar
(Yuri)

TEAM 2:
Leonshade
Maxous
Creature
(Gorkington)
(Yuri) think this fits here as well
(RC)

Something along these lines.....No Math, I did not check yet whether this all makes 100% sense with everything that has happened this game.

Are you going to make me rip this to shreds again? Seriously?

Those teams are also still very horrible.

You've also omitted certain people like nancy from the list.

You are scum. I want your head more than Nero's. I could VCA this shit again but I already can tell your wagons are shit.

If you have a Yuri on your scumteam if you don't have nancy I'm not buying it.

What IS YOUR read on nancy?

Do you see that very bright green name at the top of my townlocks? It says Nancy.

[Vecna]

Fuck the green I can't read shit...But either way if you have Yuri scum nancy HAS to be there.

Elaborate some more on this because im really really not seeing it. Also, this REALLY is not how you would adress me if you really thought I was scum, so cut it out please.

[Vecna]

Ok so short to do list; see if a team composition can be made that makes some sense with voting/behaviour around the day 1/2 wagons. Update the two team/tiers.

Check into that SSBM iso to see if my initial idea chops wood.

And day three too...Gee that sounds like you're trying to beat my VCA I wish you all the luck in the world because you're going to need it. At least you admit your teams don't make sense now. Saves me a shit ton of effort trying to convince everyone else.

THIS POST IS A SCUM CLAIM FROM VECNA!!!!!!!!!!

@Nero what do you make of Vecna posting a "to do list" of make a team that makes sense and then posting that team and then saying he didn't analyze it to see if it made sense?

Vecna is just scum who meant to post that TDL in scum chat.

[Vecna]

Creature, your roleblock tonight is LIMITED to either ME or GORKINGTON. We do not want you to accidentally hit a town-doctor protecting Davesaz

Please stop using this color. I can't read it.

AND FUCK THAT NONSENSE.

Scumreads do not control mechanics. One of the best things we have is that we stopped a scum kill. However that happened needs to happen again without anyone's interference. Meaning do whatever the fuck you want.

As you said before yourself, im the master of mechanics, so you can sit your ass back down with these clown suggestions. Your terrible read on me be damned.

[Vecna]

unlike you, I don't need to be scum and know everyone is town to be competent. Thats why I was you know, not busy mislynching town d1 and 2. But like ok, I'm too lazy to go back and read so I'll give you the benifit of the doubt that YOU were town reading Bee but you are still responsible for what your sister did in that slot since you know...its the same slot.

And you're picking out my sister being blatantly wrong in order to further your agenda. Tell me, if I was scum why would I try to stop her from mislynching huh? This discord is crap it was absolutely no fun. My sister said I should give up on mafia forever chewed me out for three hours then had to go and barely gave me an edge in edgewise. It was downright sickening and now we have been lynching her scumreads after my protests repeatedly they were town and it pisses me off. So don't tell me I've been antitown when all I have been doing is arguing my case. If you say I am scum simply because of my sister she's not here. You need something POST day one. Name how I not the DEO slot has been scummy. Here's a hint you fucking can't because I'm town. So stop your bullshit Nero.

And I told you not to bring this shit up again.

[Vecna]

Lynch Vote 4.22

Leonshade (5):

NoticeMeSenpai, KidAmn, CloudKicker, Lil Uzi Vert, Caesar Wills It

RadiantCowbells (4):

nancy, Nero Cain, Vecna, davesaz

Nero Cain (2):

Leonshade, RadiantCowbells

Vecna (2):

Gorkinton, MathBlade

Caesar Wills It (1):

Creature

KidAmn (1):

Maxous

Not Voting (1):

Alisae

With 16 players alive, it takes 9 to lynch by majority.
Lynch deadline is in (expired on 2017-03-26 13:41:51), at which point at which point we will default to no lynch.

Oh, this was just meant to be a temporary vote

VOTE: Leonshade

Will settle for KidAmn or Gorkington as well, but this is probably the better lynch for today.

[Vecna]

Guys it's fucking obvious that Vecna is trying to get the town to be cohesive.

Yeah, I wish I had some way of making Math see it :/

[Vecna]

@Ali: Him wanting to be in a neighborhood or advocating for town to build one doesn't make him town.

The most important thing is that Davesaz is in it so we have extra sources of protection on him.

[Vecna]

Vecna answer please

Sorry, what did you want answered?

[Vecna]

Like I really don't get how anyone who is town and has been part of the shit play of this game is still going to fight me in this game. it's absolute cancer

You werent even here to go through it all, so you have no reason whatsoever to be this agitated.

Youre also not even trying to read into my reasoning for why im doing stuff, all youre just doing is "OMG VECNA WAS PART OF 3 MISLYNCHES, CANCEROUS NOOBSCUM IS ALWAYS WRONG".

Yet at the same time, all youve done to convince us that nero is scum is put out this very wide phrase of reasoning that could apply to roughly 10 people in this game.

[Vecna]

Like idk if Vecna is scum or town who just thinks he's the hottest shit even though all he's done is fuck the game over since the start but he needs to be out of the game as soon as possible for town to win

Like, youre completely ignoring any of my efforts to organize town today. Youre not even trying to engage anyone except Nero, this is just pure scumtalk or your ego talking because "GASP" people dont agree with you. Even if youre correct on Nero, wtf do you think voting me is going to accomplish?

[Vecna]

And how is being more egotistical going to solve the problem RC? That's literally what've you been since you subbed in which is why I said you aren't what the gamestate needed.

No, this gamestate doesn't need a leader. There's 5 people trying to play town leader and half are scum and the other half are shit. The game needs someone with competent reads.

You havent even read more than half the thread

[Vecna]

Vecna answer please

Sorry, what did you want answered?

Who would've neighborized Night 1?

hard to answer at this point for me, since half the DEO slot had a scumread on me. In Alisae's place I could totally see the DEO being a decent choice to gamesolve. Ofcourse there were plenty other choices as well, after Code Geass im a bit surprised I havent been invited I guess.

Anyways, why is this important to you? You think some wifom nonsense is going on here?

[Vecna]

And yet I'm the one who was trying to lynch scum and you're the one voting Leon. funny how that works. maybe I'm just better than you if you're town?

Now if only you'd upgrade your convincing game eh? Because at the rate youre going, everyone is going to be ignoring you soon. What youre doing is harmfull to town, even if youre right.

[Vecna]

Like the worst part is that you've seen the same shit that I've seen wrt Kid and Nero chainsawing and soft defending each other but you won't vote either of them.

Which is why I think you're scum: the associatives are super obvious and I wouldn't even entertain a lynch on Leon based on the same reasoning that you've addressed in thread.

Yet you're happy to just skedaddle off and lynch town rather than try to lynch actual scum

Let me point you to just one example that makes me believe Nero is more towny than you have been so far.

This afternoon while we were live chatting he posted an Iso from a game that was meant to identify the allignment of someone (I already forgot who it was). In the game SSBM_KYOUKO also was playing, and I made a comment that his play appeared totally different to what it was this game.

Nero responds going: I also read it, and I actually had the complete opposite view. can you explain why you drew that conclusion?

I decided to do it properly and did an indepth comparison. guess what? Nero was correct, and the play did match in some very key details. Now....why would Scum!nero engage me there, correct me, and be this aware of the details? Because he did the same thing, and actually compared the meta's, as good town should - At least thats my assumption. And theres a ton of small little details for which im town-reading Nero.

Its all wonderfull that you come in here and think you can powerboat your way to a Nero lynch, but if you think youre gonna be succesful just by slapping your ego around, then you have probably gotten used to playing with weakminded drones too much.

Put in the effort that some others have done, or shut your yap and sit down boy.

[Vecna]

And yes, I can be called upon to work with you if youre really town. But the way youre trying to force the issue is not going to work with me. And this attitude of trying to force me out of the way is just another example of your anti-town play. Theres plenty other ways to go about it, but as you admitted it yourself youre too lazy for it.

Try and convince me the rational way. If you cannot do that, than stop bragging about your rational prowess.

[Vecna]

And as a hint; as I said before, im also willing to compromise and redirect todays lynch to either Gorkington or KidAmn. Im quite sure you were scumreading one of them as well werent you?

Which other people are you willing to lynch today BESIDES nero or Nancy?

[Vecna]

Whats your reservations about Gorkington?

[Vecna]

VOTE: KidAmn

There you go, pretty sure nearly everyone is scumreading this slot and it has to go at some point regardless. Dont say im not willing to work with people.

[Vecna]

He is playing like he usually does as town, and while my only experience with him as scum is as Cheetory this isn't at all like that. Scum!Cheeto was a useless lurksack and didn't really do anything. He's doing things this game. Also the fact that in the Leon/Gorkington duelling wagons most of the scum votes were on Gorkington and scum haven't been bussing and Gorkington has not played like scum who is being bussed.

you dont think today was a good moment to bus?

[Vecna]

So for the record RC: Am I town or scum?

[Vecna]

UNVOTE: Leonshade

This town actually needs some more time for proper instructions.

PLAN TO VICTORY:

TOWN NEEDS TO TAKE THE NEIGHBOURHOOD AND ROLEBLOCK MIRACLE TODAY. THIS IS OF UTMOST IMPORTANCE

DAVESAZ, WHILE A NOBLE SOUL THAT TRIED TO BE SUBTLE, IS THE CLEAR HOLDER OF CHICHEN ITZA. SCUM KNOWS THIS, AND WE HAVE TO PROTECT HIM AT ALL COSTS

IF WE CAN GET THE ROLEBLOCK ON TOWN, WE KNOW THAT IT COULD ONLY BE CREATURE (=double scum lynch in case of roleblock)

BOTH TOWN DOCTORS SHOULD BE ON DAVESAZ. NEIGHBOURHOOD WONDER CAN INVITE DAVE + SOMEONE ELSE THEYD LIKE TO PROTECT/WIFOM

GOOD DISTRIBUTION OF WONDER SUBMISSION:

2 TOWN FOR THE NEIGHBOURHOOD WONDER

1 TOWN FOR THE TOWN-CONFIRM WONDER (Pref on someone like CEASAR/NERO)

ALL OTHER TOWN ON THE RoleBlock TO DENY IT TO SCUM.

THIS IS OF UTMOST IMPORTANCE.

For more emphasis

[Vecna]

Dont flake on that last question now

[Vecna]

Dont bullshit me RC. Someone this cocky and certain about so many things certainly has a confident read on my slot.

Town or scum.

[Vecna]

VOTE: Leonshade

Cloudkicker, im quite sure I documented every change in perception ive had on your slot. Ive townread your slot for most of the game except for a brief while during today/yesterday because of a few statements you made which I didnt like.