Micro 691: Just Mafia (Game Over)

Micro Games (9 players or fewer). Archived during the 2023 queue overhaul.
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Post Post #7 (isolation #0) » Wed Mar 08, 2017 5:35 pm

Post by Hiraki »

Counterwagon

Vote: Thinkbig
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Post Post #54 (isolation #1) » Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:14 pm

Post by Hiraki »

I don't think you can accurately make a TvT or anything prediction fairly this early on.
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Post Post #59 (isolation #2) » Sat Mar 11, 2017 12:49 pm

Post by Hiraki »

AJ, I agree with your LUV read.

I don't like 58. Perhaps I just don't understand what Sobolev is saying but there's no reason to criticize a post if you have no idea why it's bad or if it's good. Saying "it's forced" about something you can't pinpoint as scum or town sounds much more forced.
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Post Post #61 (isolation #3) » Sat Mar 11, 2017 12:53 pm

Post by Hiraki »

Your point is that since the post is forced, you have me as null?
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Post Post #63 (isolation #4) » Sat Mar 11, 2017 12:55 pm

Post by Hiraki »

Can you give me an example where a town player would have a forced post that you would need to point it out?
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Post Post #65 (isolation #5) » Sat Mar 11, 2017 12:59 pm

Post by Hiraki »

And here's my real point in all of this - you're able to say that it's forced but you can't say if it comes from a town or scum side? Not even a lean?
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Post Post #73 (isolation #6) » Sun Mar 12, 2017 10:02 am

Post by Hiraki »

I don't think he's entirely wrong but I don't think it's entirely helpful to stall stagnate the game.
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Post Post #79 (isolation #7) » Sun Mar 12, 2017 2:18 pm

Post by Hiraki »

In post 74, Maxous wrote:he strikes me as over-cautious and i want to check if he's normally like this
Does the latest posting by Schadd alleviate or strengthen your concerns?
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Post Post #89 (isolation #8) » Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:58 pm

Post by Hiraki »

Gonna have to play the towntell game at this rate.

I think Schadd, Hapa, and Maxous are town for the moment (in hierarchical order)

Vote: AJ


Mostly for what Tenshii said but nothing more.
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Post Post #92 (isolation #9) » Mon Mar 13, 2017 4:20 pm

Post by Hiraki »

In post 86, Tenshii wrote:You can't argue for lack of elaboration when most of the playerlist, including yourself, hasn't done so.
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Post Post #95 (isolation #10) » Mon Mar 13, 2017 5:28 pm

Post by Hiraki »

Not hard town. Just something to work with right now.
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Post Post #103 (isolation #11) » Tue Mar 14, 2017 9:21 am

Post by Hiraki »

In post 96, hapahauli wrote:What about Maxous and Shadd's play do you like?
Maxous seems to care about the game and isn't looking for people to lynch in an overall stagnant game.

Schadd seems to care about his posting from a town perspective. That could be swayed quickly.
In post 97, Aj The Epic wrote:Also Hiraki I can't imagine you making a single weaker vote than that. You:
You knew it was a weak vote and you decided to care about it?

Not defending that either - it is quite plainly a weak pressure vote and I don't like this reaction.
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Post Post #105 (isolation #12) » Tue Mar 14, 2017 9:31 am

Post by Hiraki »

Right - so my point is that it's a weak vote with no substance and your reaction to it is terrible. What should be ignorable is seen as an attack. If the vote has no substance, then no should join me, no?
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Post Post #115 (isolation #13) » Tue Mar 14, 2017 12:34 pm

Post by Hiraki »

In post 111, horrordude0215 wrote:why are surprised that AJ cared about it?
For the single fact that if you know it's a weak vote, then why should you care about it?
In post 107, hapahauli wrote:How is it townie if he isn't looking for people to lynch?
Because scum are looking for people to lynch while town is looking to lynch scum.
In post 107, hapahauli wrote:Like, if you care about the game, you should be trying to find mafia.
Are you trying to say that I'm looking for someone to lynch? Because I could've voted Soblev pages ago on very bad tenses and no one would've batted an eye.
In post 107, hapahauli wrote:What does this even mean?
It means that he's being very careful with his posting but from a town perspective rather than a scum perspective.
In post 111, horrordude0215 wrote:This is a bad 2nd post, and reeks of intentionally not chiming in on his thoughts of the previous page.
It's a bad thing I'm not voting one of them and TRing the other!

Oh...
In post 111, horrordude0215 wrote:Hiraki also gets very defensive in his back and forth with Sobolev.
Curious how you're able to accuse every post of mine on being scummy. Additionally curious on how you're not able to say how I've been defensive. When is defensiveness scummy in an argument anyway?
In post 111, horrordude0215 wrote:If you admit it was a weak vote, why are surprised that AJ cared about it?
Clearly was speaking to the intensity of it. Both Hapa and AJ realized that.
In post 106, Aj The Epic wrote:You're acting as if having no justification EXCUSES your lame excuse for a vote.
It didn't. Would've taken it off if you didn't give the worst reaction possible.
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Post Post #148 (isolation #14) » Wed Mar 15, 2017 5:47 am

Post by Hiraki »

In post 116, hapahauli wrote:I still don't understand why you think AJ had "the worst reaction possible."
In hindsight, the worst reaction possible would've came with a vote. I think we both know that I was active last night and I was waiting to hear more AJ. The following doesn't help his case:
In post 147, Aj The Epic wrote:My entire contribution to this game has gone after people who haven't been playing to a town wincon this game, from Hiraki using weak reasoning, to Temphq being noncommittal to you using spam posts early to try and get a foothold in this game.
In post 117, horrordude0215 wrote:Weak votes are opportunistic and scummy.
I would have unvoted if he had a normal reaction to it.
In post 117, horrordude0215 wrote:(and in fact stated that you agreed with his read on LUV in your very next post)
The game stagnated.
In post 117, horrordude0215 wrote:because it felt like you were pushing Sobolev to the wall in an attempt to get him to out his read on you.
What's wrong with that?
In post 123, Sobolev Space wrote:Tenshii's activity shot down right after people started voting for him.
Everyone's activity spiked down but I also agree with Lil Uzi's 130 (Activity is NAI).
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Post Post #158 (isolation #15) » Wed Mar 15, 2017 12:56 pm

Post by Hiraki »

In post 151, hapahauli wrote:Why was AJ's reaction bad?
When was the last time that you made a list on why a vote was bad? AJ isn't some new player.
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Post Post #171 (isolation #16) » Thu Mar 16, 2017 4:03 pm

Post by Hiraki »

In post 169, horrordude0215 wrote:If AJ flips scum, Hiraki deserves some attention too.
says the person voting me
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Post Post #176 (isolation #17) » Fri Mar 17, 2017 4:50 am

Post by Hiraki »

Why do you have no preference in two diverging opinions?
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Post Post #207 (isolation #18) » Sat Mar 18, 2017 7:24 am

Post by Hiraki »

I don't think Lil Uzi deserves pressure but definitely should be voting at this point.
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Post Post #210 (isolation #19) » Sat Mar 18, 2017 9:46 am

Post by Hiraki »

That's usual for him though.
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Post Post #235 (isolation #20) » Mon Mar 20, 2017 8:37 am

Post by Hiraki »

232 is objectively wrong.
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Post Post #247 (isolation #21) » Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:03 am

Post by Hiraki »

In post 238, horrordude0215 wrote:Deadline is approaching and he's the scummiest read I have out of the 3 wagons above.
Is there a possibility that me and AJ are BOTH scum in your opinion?
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Post Post #261 (isolation #22) » Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:35 pm

Post by Hiraki »

In post 253, horrordude0215 wrote:I believe I already addressed this.
Correct, my b.
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Post Post #263 (isolation #23) » Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:37 pm

Post by Hiraki »

Will we ever get along Darklyn?
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Post Post #266 (isolation #24) » Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:41 pm

Post by Hiraki »

Will you get rid of AJ when I flip town?
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Post Post #269 (isolation #25) » Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:55 pm

Post by Hiraki »

Do you think that my reasons against AJ are bad? I would love to get your feelings on how someone calls people out on actively lurking when they're not and they call over half of the game inactive, including active players.
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Post Post #270 (isolation #26) » Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:55 pm

Post by Hiraki »

Also how do you feel about horrordude?
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Post Post #273 (isolation #27) » Mon Mar 20, 2017 1:00 pm

Post by Hiraki »

And you don't feel that AJ reacted badly?
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Post Post #275 (isolation #28) » Mon Mar 20, 2017 1:20 pm

Post by Hiraki »

:(

But I'm so so so deadset on AJ and clownman.
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Post Post #294 (isolation #29) » Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:19 am

Post by Hiraki »

I'm no voting LuV for being inconsistent. That's NAI and that's certainly not within his own playstyle - no offense.
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Post Post #295 (isolation #30) » Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:20 am

Post by Hiraki »

NB inconsistent refers to voting patterns, not reads
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Post Post #305 (isolation #31) » Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:56 am

Post by Hiraki »

Do you guys know how many times LUV actively flakes from games?

Like - I really don't want to bring it up but since you're forcing my hand - LUV is not allowed to join games due to actively replacing out. If he's scum here, it's not because you guys did literally any scumhunting. It's not a bad D1 lynch but not by any means great either.
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Post Post #307 (isolation #32) » Tue Mar 21, 2017 11:09 am

Post by Hiraki »

It's not that it's not my first choice - it's not A choice for me.
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Post Post #308 (isolation #33) » Tue Mar 21, 2017 11:10 am

Post by Hiraki »

I would rather have myself be lynched than LUV. There's NOTHING to be gained. No matter how it flips, it's a scum gain. EVEN if he's scum.
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Post Post #312 (isolation #34) » Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:18 pm

Post by Hiraki »

What associations between LUV can you get? LUV hasn't said anything. That's the SINGLE reason why this wagon has grown up. Do you think LUV who is known to be dodgy overall is trying a new tactic of just NOT talking?
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Post Post #315 (isolation #35) » Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:33 pm

Post by Hiraki »

I'll disagree with both of you but much more with horror than anything.
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Post Post #326 (isolation #36) » Tue Mar 21, 2017 4:23 pm

Post by Hiraki »

@Darklyn there is no acceptable reason why you can't hop on this quickly

Vote: Horrordude
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Post Post #327 (isolation #37) » Tue Mar 21, 2017 4:24 pm

Post by Hiraki »

Unvote, Vote: AJ


Can't switch until there's more votes but I am deadset on Horror tbh
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Post Post #332 (isolation #38) » Tue Mar 21, 2017 4:54 pm

Post by Hiraki »

Vote: Horrordude
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Post Post #335 (isolation #39) » Tue Mar 21, 2017 7:50 pm

Post by Hiraki »

Very much so. Do you have any reason not to believe so?
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Post Post #343 (isolation #40) » Wed Mar 22, 2017 4:52 am

Post by Hiraki »

In post 339, Maxous wrote:like, if i'm to trust Hiraki's read on LUV, that he's just a player that regularly pulls shit like this...i'm not gonna be delighted, sorry
I don't have a read on LUV - I just know he's not a good lynch for today.
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Post Post #344 (isolation #41) » Wed Mar 22, 2017 5:22 am

Post by Hiraki »

Deadline is in just around 12 hours. Please vote.
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Post Post #347 (isolation #42) » Wed Mar 22, 2017 7:37 am

Post by Hiraki »

Unvote, Vote: AJ


I hope someone CCs.
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Post Post #349 (isolation #43) » Wed Mar 22, 2017 8:46 am

Post by Hiraki »

The difference in pages would be a factor if we didn't waste 5 pages trying to lynch a lurky player for lurking.
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Post Post #359 (isolation #44) » Wed Mar 22, 2017 10:21 am

Post by Hiraki »

Phoneposting, will self vote if I'm leading wagon, dark isn't scum
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Post Post #369 (isolation #45) » Wed Mar 22, 2017 10:48 am

Post by Hiraki »

I'm not moving anymore. Probably won't be here for deadline.
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Post Post #370 (isolation #46) » Wed Mar 22, 2017 10:48 am

Post by Hiraki »

Mistake --
Vote: Horrorface
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Post Post #371 (isolation #47) » Wed Mar 22, 2017 10:49 am

Post by Hiraki »

Vote: Horrordude


Sorry phone posting!
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Post Post #423 (isolation #48) » Wed Mar 22, 2017 1:31 pm

Post by Hiraki »

In post 413, horrordude0215 wrote:I still want a Hiraki lynch fwiw. I have a stronger read on him than anyone else.
You don't have to repeat something 10 times for people to understand.

I didn't think I'd be here but I'll be on until the end. That being said, let's get some backlog out of the way:
In post 352, Aj The Epic wrote:It also would be awesome if you didn't waste space lying about the reasons people wanted LuV lynched.
Great, let's go over this:

Uzi is L-1 as of 304 with the following on the wagon:

A) Maxous
B) Sobolev Space
C) Aj the Epic
D) Darklyn

Here are the reasons given:

A)
In post 191, Maxous wrote:Uzi just wants somebody else to end the day do he can stay off wagons and avoid giving any stance.
Wow...a flaky player being...flaky - I'm SURE that has NOTHING to do with what I just said!
In post 209, Maxous wrote:Meh. I do.
I think his reads are shallow
In reference to the above, I wonder if this has ANY coincidence!
In post 336, Maxous wrote:you don't lurk the game and give no effort to defend yourself as a doctor
if you're a town protective you will put more effort into getting the wagon off of you so you don't have to claim
The same argument can be made for the reverse tbh.

Out of everyone's comments, these are at least the most thought provoking. I wonder why I TR Max!

B)
In post 202, Sobolev Space wrote:VOTE: Lil Uzi
In post 198, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:
In post 195, Sobolev Space wrote:Who do you think could be scum then?
That's what I'm trying to figure out.
Try harder.
Voting him for being lurky and flaky? Check!

C)
In post 57, Aj The Epic wrote:LuV's play this game actually bothers me, and I consider myself fairly aquatinted with his bad habits of sounding scummy early. Here particularly, he's been as brief as possible with no real advancement to the game.
"He is flaky and lurky"
In post 211, Aj The Epic wrote:This iteration of LuV is unusual even for him, though. LuV normally ATTEMPTS to have reads, even if they're not very unique.
wow a meta attack, this is some good scumhunting dude
In post 241, Aj The Epic wrote:Actually, thinking on it: LuV's conclusion in 203 contradicts his conclusion in 173. If you're not clicking links, 173 is his "let's end the day now" post and 203 is his "I think Aj/Max is tvt" explanation, from his earlier statement that Tenshii/Max/Myself is tvtvt.
173 does not say "let's end the day now" so your entire argument here crumbles pretty quickly.
LUV wrote:Prolonging the day doesn't do any good.
In response to Horrordude saying that he'll put an L-1 vote on AJ before the deadline.

LUV
never
says that he wants to end the day. His question is literally:
In post 173, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:What do you want to accomplish before you put him at L-1?
Which has NOTHING to do with ending the day early!

D)
In post 314, Darklyn wrote:It gives some decent ones for AJ and Maxous
In response to me saying that the LUV lynch produces no information. No response was given to this post. In fact, Darklyn asks LUV later on who he wants to lynch.

So - I apologize. You're not wrong. The wagon isn't EXCLUSIVELY on lurky attacks. Here's what else is on the wagon:

A) META
B) False claims
C) An overall bad vote from Darklyn that was not followed up on
In post 353, horrordude0215 wrote:You put AJ at L-2 on Page 4 by sheeping someone else's "case", admitting it's a weak vote... AJ calls you out and tells you the vote is weak, so he's scum?
Yes. We've already had this argument. You're clearly not with me. Oh wait! Should we re-visit this little snippet!
In post 169, horrordude0215 wrote:Based on AJ's recent reactions (trying to go powertown and dictate to everyone who the lynch is going to be), Hiraki's vote on him feels like a weak attempt to bus a partner.
Hmm...that's odd...it seems that you
noticed
the change and just made it fit your agenda! Good looks!
In post 354, Toto wrote:Clown case is good.
Clown case hasn't changed since Page 4. Never change Toto.
In post 356, Toto wrote:You seem to be attacking Hiraki for a weak case on AJ, but I think you had some issues with AJ yourself. Can you clarify this?
No! I said don't change! Don't start to look around a little bit!

I have no intention of lynching Uzi or Tenshii after the following 2 pages.
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Post Post #427 (isolation #49) » Wed Mar 22, 2017 1:40 pm

Post by Hiraki »

I literally talked about that.
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Post Post #430 (isolation #50) » Wed Mar 22, 2017 3:13 pm

Post by Hiraki »

I'm requesting replacement after this lynch (just for the fact that I don't want to kill the game by causing a NL in case someone else comes in here).

I'm tired of you two telling me that I either haven't done enough work or haven't read the thread or haven't done enough to your liking. I'm just not having fun with you two and I don't expect that to change with D2.

The fact is that you DID SR AJ and me at the same time. That's the only thing that I was stating. I wasn't stating that you were doing so. That was completely irrelevant to my argument that is exactly the same as it was now.
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Post Post #431 (isolation #51) » Wed Mar 22, 2017 3:15 pm

Post by Hiraki »

In fact, there is
zero
claim in the above post that you are scumreading AJ. Instead, there is a complete fact that the same changes that led me to SR AJ are the same ones that you did. The difference was the reversal on that scumread after people realized that it was very fishy that you were SRing both me and AJ at the same time.
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Post Post #433 (isolation #52) » Wed Mar 22, 2017 3:27 pm

Post by Hiraki »

You were scumreading two of the leading wagons. That's a very safe bet.

I rescind that portion of my argument that it was many people. Sobolev, Lil Uzi, and AJ acknowledged it before you "flip-flopped" by reading his ISO.
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Post Post #434 (isolation #53) » Wed Mar 22, 2017 3:30 pm

Post by Hiraki »

Just to push it in, your reasons for scumreading me were identical to AJ yet he was also scum because he was leading the town.

How do you scumread someone, say that they're scum for leading, and then agree to their logic - essentially following them?
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Post Post #437 (isolation #54) » Wed Mar 22, 2017 3:41 pm

Post by Hiraki »

The votes on AJ at that time were
clearly
one in the same with me.

But I'm sure you can't understand that because you're taking everything I say to the fucking literal dictionary.
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Post Post #438 (isolation #55) » Wed Mar 22, 2017 3:42 pm

Post by Hiraki »

Note that instead of arguing my logic about his SR doesn't make
any
sense in full context he decided to change the argument to the fact that I talked about myself being a leading wagon when I was being suspected by the same people and even lumped in together with Max at that time.
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Post Post #476 (isolation #56) » Sat Mar 25, 2017 9:02 am

Post by Hiraki »

I'm going to stay quiet before I say anything but understand there's something I want to say but feel much better if I conceal it for the time being.
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Post Post #490 (isolation #57) » Sat Mar 25, 2017 1:03 pm

Post by Hiraki »

In post 476, Hiraki wrote:I'm going to stay quiet before I say anything but understand there's something I want to say but feel much better if I conceal it for the time being.
This was about Darklyn not posting since the 22nd.

Vote: Max

This is L-1.
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Post Post #497 (isolation #58) » Sat Mar 25, 2017 5:41 pm

Post by Hiraki »

Me too tbh
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Post Post #501 (isolation #59) » Sat Mar 25, 2017 8:37 pm

Post by Hiraki »

I would've waited but it's not a big deal
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Post Post #514 (isolation #60) » Sun Mar 26, 2017 8:14 am

Post by Hiraki »

LUV probably picked up that Darklyn isn't lurking.
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Post Post #524 (isolation #61) » Tue Mar 28, 2017 3:52 am

Post by Hiraki »

You can't SR someone for "town-leading" and then agree with their logic

When AJ questioned you on it and you gave him very coy answers, i was pretty solid in my read
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