(NSFW) Mini 1882 - TPTG Mafia 1.5: The Fappening (NoWins)

[podoboq]

*walks in slathered in baby oil, dick at quarter-mast*

How's it going, fellow perverts?

I'm gonna try to keep any flavor text in areas like this. If direct game talk that doesn't involve butt stuff or fursuits makes you soft, you can just skip over the parts that aren't in areas.

This is my first time playing in a while. I've been moderating games recently, so it's exciting to finally get back to the fun part.

[podoboq]

Please note, Gravy is not a Kink that appears in this game.

Don't kink-shame me.

[podoboq]

Don't kink-shame me.

i have a turkey baster with your name written on it if you start acting town.

Don't threaten me with a good time.

[podoboq]

Alright, I'm home. Thoughts:

Scum can't possibly have any compatible pairings within themselves, because if they did, they'd just auto-win by pairing with eachother every day. That means that NO pairings can possibly be scum/scum. So that will provide us with conf-town in future days, as if we ever flip scum, any of their previous pairings are conf-town.

We shouldn't mass-claim our kinks/turn-offs, especially since only one-side needs to be compatible. If we get down to coupling failed people, we can have people within that group claim either their kinks or turn-offs in order to confirm a successful coupling, but it shouldn't be done with no forethought or super early.


One thing I sometimes do in the party game version of Werewolf is a lynch by Tribunal. What we do is select (sometimes randomly) a person who is safe. That person then saves another one person, and so-forth. The last person left is eliminated. It can be useful day-one for town, because it forces players to out reads, and usually forces scum into a position where they have to pick each other to be safe. It outs a lot of information. The orgy mechanic seems incredibly similar, with enough twists to make it hard for us to use without a lot of forethought. All In seems to be thinking something similar:

I was thinking we might "elect" a townread who then gets to select someone of their choice to partner up with. The partner then selects someone for the second pair and so on until only one person is left.

So Player A pairs with Player B, then whether or not it fails, Player B chooses a Player C, who then chooses who they pair with. Etc, until one player is left alone. If any coupling fails, the person who they attempt to couple recouples instead of giving another player the choice. At the end, players attempt to couple again, making sure to share turn-offs or kinks in order to make sure their coupling is successful. Players selected earliest in the first phase get first pick here as well. I like this as a way to remove some of the power from scum. They're forced to play by town's rules, because breaking our sequence by attempting to couple without permission is tantamount to a scumclaim.

I want opinions on this.

[podoboq]

I need to determine wether you didn't think this through or you're scum trying to shaft us.

I want opinions on this.

I want to hear the arguments against this. You can argue with me in our neighborhood, but I would like to see town weigh in on WHY they like/dislike this.

[podoboq]

Except we don't have a lynch or night actions so whatcha gonna do when they scumclaim, waddle your finger at them?

Trying to answer this question in our PT. Not ready to divulge my thoughts on this in public yet.

In other words, come back to bed (our PT) honey.

[podoboq]

but couldn't there also be some night actions that can eliminate scum, and as such make it possible.?

Scum will name a player to be killed, and the night phase will be resolved immediately. Dawn will begin.

Seems like everyone is essentially vanilla, but with different sets of kinks / turn-offs. I doubt anyone has any night actions.

[podoboq]

I'd take you, Fresh.

Eager to jump on...why?

He wants that Toon Link boy pussy.

[podoboq]

RULES:

7. There are no night actions. Factional abilities may be decided in the appropriate PT.

I maintain my point about you guys not reading =_=

I totally remembered reading that, then went to find it and expected it to be in the "game-specific" part of the rules, couldn't find it, and assumed I was misremembering it. Whoops.

[podoboq]

So far I like Dramonic for scum. His contribution to the game has been "your idea sucks, and your idea sucks too." He gives 0 reasons and 0 suggestions. Sniping at other people's strategies is an easy way to break up town getting their shit together as well as an easy way to fake content.

I played with dramonic before, had exactly this perspective, and was stone wrong the entire game because of it. It was Musical Mafia. Happy to link you to relevant things in there if you don't want to read through the game yourself (but right now I'm too lazy).

[podoboq]

podo you have reads other than dram?

Yes. Unfortunately, most of my reads are generally bad unless inspired by setup spec, and I don't want to air-out my setup spec yet.

Leaving the dirty talk in the bedroom for now.

[podoboq]

can you share your bad reads anyway.

BAD READS: (without setup speculation)

TOWN:

dramonic

: He's playing exactly like he was in Musical Mafia, and despite snapping me up as a lover, he's not attempting to buddy me. He's insulting my bad ideas to my face.

Gorkington

: I town read a lot of activity and scumread inactivity. It's a fault of my game. That said, I like that Gorkington is trying to engage people.

DrippingGoofBall

: Played with her once before, in Overwatch Mafia. I was scum, and killed her night one. Her reads are good, and to my knowledge, she's a good enough player not to "Thank god I'm town. " as scum in her first post of the game.

All In

: I like his attempt to participate. Bad ideas are more valuable than no ideas.

shos

: Good reads.


ABSOLUTE NULL: Everybody else.


SCUM:

ThinkBig

: I think he's more interested in self-preservation and appearing to be doing something, but basically all I've seen him do is attempt to couple somebody in the first post of the game, then remind Fresh that he can couple him.

Fresh

: (Unlikely scum w/ ThinkBig) Invites people to couple him, but isn't actually talking about any other part of the game except to express a poor read.

[podoboq]

can you talk at me about why fresh/thinkbig partners doesnt seem likely to you?

I think ThinkBig is scummy for trying to bait Fresh into coupling him. If they were both scum, that wouldn't be an option (I assume), and talking about it detracts from either of their chances of getting attention somewhere else.

[podoboq]

no read on me pod?

Most of what I have on you is setup related. Stay tuned.

I think the reads you shared in 117 were good.

[podoboq]

pretty worried that this setup is broken though. :/

This game is HILARIOUSLY balanced...maybe. Just assume it is.

Your god has spoken.

[podoboq]

Scum can't possibly have any compatible pairings within themselves, because if they did, they'd just auto-win by pairing with eachother every day.

And here is my first scum read for piss-poor mechanical assessment of the set-up.

If scum can pair within themselves, then at the very least they can force a draw, since they can never be "lynched" and I assume their night-kill is non-mandatory.

[podoboq]

Scum will name a player to be killed, and the night phase will be resolved immediately. Dawn will begin.

Will the lover of this night-kill not ALSO die (regardless of whether or not they were made permanent)? They're lovers until the next day, right?

[podoboq]

And for 165 which is weak use of meta and feels like scum knowing Dram is town and looking for an easy reason to call him that.

dramonic: He's playing exactly like he was in Musical Mafia, and despite snapping me up as a lover, he's not attempting to buddy me. He's insulting my bad ideas to my face.

[podoboq]

hes

Pronoun game. Does "he" equal ThinkBig or MagnaofIllusion?

[podoboq]

thinkbig. i think that should be pretty clear with the context?

I assumed, but ambiguity is ambiguity.

[podoboq]

^^^^^^^^
I like this guy

[podoboq]

^^^^^^^^
I like this guy

Obviously not enough to buy me a twelve piece at Popeyes and a night of making me think that you're a Brazilian Spider Monkey.

Sorry man, I was taken up by dramonic already. If I could invite you into our palace of pleasure I would.

[podoboq]

Fuck it.

Get kinky wit All Alone

That isn't a person

[podoboq]

The only think giving me reservations is that Podo is quick to buddy up to him and Podo is still in my pool of scum.

Don't know what to tell you man, I just really hate lurkers. As evidence, I'd like to point you to all of my games on mafiascum, including the one I just finished moderating in which three players had to be replaced due to inactivity. Players like SnarkySnowman make me not want to play mafia, and if we had the ability to lynch him, I'd probably be arguing to policy lynch him.

If you think me cheering for the guy reaming Snarky is an attempt to buddy him, you just don't know the extent to which I despise lurkers. I'm happy to see someone else say something for once.

[podoboq]

Losing this game or being the catcher, not the pitcher.

This is a tough choice.

Only pansies are afraid to bottom. Grow some balls and let Rach peg your brains out.

[podoboq]

So your response has no Town value. Which is why I question even making it if you are Town.

Maybe it has personal value to you but frankly I don’t care about that any more than you care about my huge distaste for shit-posting and the absolute bane that playstyle is to MS.

Spoiler: Things unrelated to the game

I understand the disconnect now.

Post 229 had no intended game value (except for potentially shaming Snarky some more). You question the reason to make it since it had no game value, so you assumed it had value to MY game because at the least it could work as a way to buddy somebody (unlikely.) In reality, it has no intention to change the game, it's just (as you're calling it) shit posting. But you're wrong about having posts that are entirely unrelated to the game. When you pepper a game with them, it makes the game way more bearable to actually play, and hopefully makes people more likely to actually come back and read it. It's the same reason games have flavor.

I think the attitude you're expressing is detrimental to the enjoyment of the game, which causes activity problems. Activity problems are an ACTUAL problem, as opposed to the perceived problem of you having to skim over a meaningless comment or two in a page.

But whatever, you likely still disagree with me, and that's fine. What I'm arguing here is essentially a philosophical difference on the value that

FUN

has in a

GAME

, and whether or not comments unrelated to our game can be fun. I'd like to shelf this and talk about it a different time, because it's a complicated argument that isn't directly related to our game, but I thought I should at least elaborate before moving on. If the non-game-related comments bother you, I'll try to do a better job of making the distinction clear between when I'm making a comment on game-state or just taking the piss.

[podoboq]

Too early to start a claim game don't you think?

I think the series of stranded players should be claiming something, yes. Not yet, but before an attempt to recouple at the end of the day.


Also, Fresh's recent posting looks way townier. Moved out of my scum pool.

[podoboq]

Or if you really really wanna talk to me...my vagina is available.

Fresh
Goon

User avatar
Joined: September 12, 2014
Pronoun:

He

Some men have vaginas.

For MoI's sanity, this post is not an attempt to buddy anybody. It has no intended game impact.

[podoboq]

Guys I got the call

I'm getting a kidney transplant tomorrow

So... VLA for 3-4 days I guess?

Wear condoms and don't catch STDs while I'm gone

Wow,

CONGRATULATIONS

!!

Real life is more important than this bullshit. Take all the time you need and be healthy!

[podoboq]

Magna town.

Snarky probable town. I think trying to kick into gear all of a sudden is strange, but not necessarily indicative of scum. I think her response to Kuroi is kind of on the town side, and I think her attempt to get with Rach is towny.

Kuroi is a scumlean for me now. Shitty interactions with people. Setting the bar too high for Snarky. I don't like how he's dealing with Magna, and I want to reread it when there's a little more content there and I have the attention span to read it in full, but it looks TvS, and I'm liking Magna. Also, including yourself in a list of people who you townread is fucky.

[podoboq]

podoboq, this is my first game with you, but you're going to have to trust me about Snarky. We have history.

I've played with Snarky before also, but whatever, I'll extend some benefit of the doubt on your interactions with Snarky. Will focus in on you v Magna at some point.

[podoboq]

podoboq, some players like Kuroi / MoI don't like that I don't talk much in games, so if I don't post like 5 or 6 times every page they get mad at me for not posting enough

I am one of these people too. I'm just trying to work on not scum reading people for stuff I dislike which isn't inherently scummy.

[podoboq]

Not buying this in the least. Anyone who has played any amount of games with Snarky knows that he’s “Neutral Useless” as any alignment. The fact that you are seem to be scum-reading him for every action he is taking is suspect and looks like you’ve found that “safe” scum read to pressure.

This 100%. I'm cool with cucking Kuroi today.

Motion to start saying cuck instead of lynch since we're leaving them out of sexy times.

[podoboq]

proddodge. Gonna post some stuff in a few, I guess.

[podoboq]

Sidenote: the only reason I'm OK with Jaqen's way of typing is because I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt that he might not be a native English speaker, and this is somehow an easier way for him to approach the language.

Or maybe he is a native English speaker, and just really annoying.

[podoboq]

its a gimmick alt.

I don't see myself getting with him regardless.

[podoboq]

Lets see if this works. It should since I have no hangups.

This seems plausible, but it seems like bad play to withhold this until four people have failed on you, then just reveal the information on day one anyway. Like, if you're going to end up claiming this anyway, you might as well start day one early with "Hey guys, nobody try to hook up with me. Details later."

[podoboq]

That request from Jaqen without preparing the second round does show us what a quality player he is though.

Really? This one is throwing poo on a man's game again just because you wish to not read in the second person?

In all fairness, mafia is a game about semantics and language, and you're insisting on destroying our standards of semantics and language. It makes it annoying to try to read.

[podoboq]

I scum read both Snarky and ThinkBig, but I think I'm just more pissed off at Snarky for being in this game when I told her I don't want to play with her, and I have to play to win.

This pings me really hard. Particularly, the "I have to play to win," reads LAMIST as fuck.

[podoboq]

Actually, I have no idea why I was even contemplating listening to MoI.

He's blowing over every fucking post I have anyways.

Get kinky with Snarky

Found scum. Thanks for claiming.

[podoboq]

hm.
Podo, wanna fuck again?
I'd like to discuss stuff with you.

Part of me wants the power to offer my dick to Snarky so that he doesn't feel like he has to accept Kuroi. Failing that, yeah, hit me up.

[podoboq]

SnarkySnowman, if you say no to Kuroi, I will offer you my dick so you don't have to worry about being alone.

[podoboq]

So Snarky gets to say no?

This game is getting to be kind of bastard.

In what possible way is that bastard? Without some mechanic that allows town to DENY scum, it is impossible for town to kill scum.

You just sound disappointed that this rule makes it harder for scum to win.

[podoboq]

You all now have the ability to Say No to Getting Kinky! If someone asks you to Get Kinky, you have the ability to Just Say No. Simply quote the offender asking you and post, in bold, No, Just Sayin' and that person will FAIL. You only get the ability to Say No once per day phase. Remember that incompatible kinks still fail as well. Remember that incompatible kinks still fail as well. We'll give at least a 24 hour lag time between someone asking before posting the result.

This was in the post, it just didn't have an area around it. It was still red text, directly above the day start VC. At a certain point, if players don't notice your stuff, it's on them.

[podoboq]

Well that's fucking disappointing. I assumed at the very least that we'd wait until SnarkySnowman came back before Kuroi got in. In this case, low activity is a weak-link, because scum can get kinky with them, and they won't pop in to deny access. Fuck.

Alright dramonic. Come get me. All-In and Rach basically get to decide who's lynched today. Whoever dies, I suggest we book Kuroi and Snarky together so that we can cuck them together tomorrow.

[podoboq]

Get kinky with Snarky

get bent scum

no jus sayin

<3

[podoboq]

Podo, why has your read on me flipped 180?

Kuroi is a scumlean for me now. Shitty interactions with people. Setting the bar too high for Snarky. I don't like how he's dealing with Magna, and I want to reread it when there's a little more content there and I have the attention span to read it in full, but it looks TvS, and I'm liking Magna. Also, including yourself in a list of people who you townread is fucky.

[podoboq]

Podo, why has your read on me flipped 180?

Kuroi is a scumlean for me now. Shitty interactions with people. Setting the bar too high for Snarky. I don't like how he's dealing with Magna, and I want to reread it when there's a little more content there and I have the attention span to read it in full, but it looks TvS, and I'm liking Magna. Also, including yourself in a list of people who you townread is fucky.

You say lean, but you're acting solid.

Scumlean to scumread isn't a 180, Captain Misrep.

[podoboq]

Not buying this in the least. Anyone who has played any amount of games with Snarky knows that he’s “Neutral Useless” as any alignment. The fact that you are seem to be scum-reading him for every action he is taking is suspect and looks like you’ve found that “safe” scum read to pressure.

This 100%. I'm cool with cucking Kuroi today.

Actually, I have no idea why I was even contemplating listening to MoI.

He's blowing over every fucking post I have anyways.

Get kinky with Snarky

Found scum. Thanks for claiming.

There's more of the transition from lean to scumread. You were scumreading Snarky for basically everything he did yesterday, then you come into Day 2 and instantly attempt to get kinky with him with no real explanation. Also, everything since looks like "scum under pressure" until the mod comes in and says "Snarky's too slow," then you can relax and start playing more aggressively. Yeah, you're scum.

[podoboq]

Welp. Playing to your win condition is fun.

Dramonic, I want to say no to that. We have Rach&All-In who die if I accept and shos and gork are a match. I think Rach is more important than me, and I don't think there's scum in Rach&All-in. Plus, I know that I will at least book the right players (Kuroi + Snowman). Thoughts?

Hypothetically, I'm talking about denying your request and asking Rach to pair with YOU, so I can book the right players and Rach survives. I'd say they can couple me instead, but frankly, I don't want to scumbag you Dramonic.

[podoboq]

Also, we know that shos&Gork is a successful, pair, so if I accept, I'm just killing Rach&All-in.

[podoboq]

Okay.

How do you think we should pair up?

I was thinking we might "elect" a townread who then gets to select someone of their choice to partner up with. The partner then selects someone for the second pair and so on until only one person is left.

I'm not sure how else we're going to have scum be unselected here?

Agreed.

I wonder if it is best to out your kinks/off-limits now and lynch from there.

outing off-limits will only give scum the opportunity to manipulate things. I'm not a big fan of that.

Some of his theory-crafting is bad, but it's town. Scum is unlikely to be this all-cards-on-the-table methinks. This is just the first thing that comes to mind. If Dramonic is even partially OK with what I'm selling here, then I'm gonna reread and make a decision.

Also, gork, maybe consider saying no to shos.

[podoboq]

I have to go do some work, but I'll be checking in. Everyone, PLEASE give me feedback on this. Are Rach&All-in worth saving here?

[podoboq]

I mean realistically as Town you should be judging whether you think the odds of Dram or All-In is more likely to be scum. Frankly I’m having trouble with the whole notion that you as Town think the best course of action is to reject Dram and have Rach / All-in choose Dram. That means you think there is a zero percent chance that there is any scum in Dram / Rach / AllIn and you think getting rid of yourself (the only player whose alignment you know for certain) is the best course of action. That makes me go "Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm ..."

I'm basically certain that dram is town, and he's not only better at this game than I am, but I think he's better at town telling. If he is town, he has more value to this game than I do, and he's almost certainly town. Now that I know that mafia cannot lynch, I can be a little more transparent about that belief.

When it comes to All-in & Rach, I think Rach is more likely scum there going only by play, but mechanically, I find it implausible that scum would have 0 turn-offs. Like, I get that it's a possibility, but it seems unlikely. Rach & All-in are arguable more important than me because townRach can auto-pair with people. That has to be worth something.

[podoboq]

Who are your scum reads besides Kuroi? That’s what it comes down to.

The only player who I feel confident calling scum is Kuroi. After that, my reads mostly align with yours, but I'd give higher preference to "lynching" players who are difficult to work with, especially considering the mechanics of this game require town to be incredibly cohesive. My "lynch" order is as follows.

Kuroi > Snarky > Jaqen.

I think there's one scum between Gork and shos. If I'm wrong there, I'd look at DGB, then Rach&All-in, then Fresh.

You and dramonic are heavy enough townreads at this point that you're out of my PoE.

[podoboq]

Now that I know that mafia cannot

nightkill

P-Edit

Mafia essentially can't nightkill without making the number of playerslots even. Since they don't have uncontested control over removing players from the game, I think we can be more explicit about who has value to the town and who doesn't.

[podoboq]

Well y'know, you can't help your team win if you're not alive.

And you've been here longer than me. Why don't you know this?

Yes you can! You seriously, seriously can.

You are a mason, and you partner mason is a cop. He's about to be lynched, so you redirect town's attention and get yourself lynched instead. Good job, you just sacrificed yourself for town, and are more likely to win the game because of it.

Or, better yet, YOU DON'T

SAVE

SOMEONE YOU SCUMREAD FOR THE SUPPOSED PURPOSE OF SELF PRESERVATION. You're saying that if there were three people left, you and two confirmed scum, that you would partner with one of the scum rather than all die together.

[podoboq]

I was waiting to hear from All in, in our PT but have not heard from him, who is left?

Unless Gork or I deny the people requesting us, you and All-In are dead.

[podoboq]

He wasn't going to let you be stuck out...

And how, per chance, did you plan on doing that?

[podoboq]

Exactly what did you think a man was getting at with his question to you or did you even see it? Feck!

Ignoring your posts is a serious possibility. Misreading or misinterpreting them is another.

[podoboq]

gahhh
im getting scared that im trusting too much that the mods wouldnt make rach's prefs scum.

If Rach indeed has no Kinks then her as scum means that she can always link up with a partner to prevent them from being Cucked. Is it out of the question that it could be a scum role? No. You can make an argument the way she handled it seems Pro-Scum (looking to strand as many Town players without warning). If she were in a position where she was scum read then she could only assure her survival by repeatedly linking with partners.

At least now a man can properly name this the role fish that it is. Scum.

In what way is this rolefishing at all? You can join the scum pile with Kuroi.

[podoboq]

I was waiting to hear from All in, in our PT but have not heard from him, who is left?

Unless Gork or I deny the people requesting us, you and All-In are dead.

Its making the best of a terrible situation. Neither all-in nor rach is particularly town.
If I thought they were worth saving id have asked them to pair not you.

Fair enough.

[podoboq]

k.
kuroi then jaqen.
with all of our control over lynching.

weeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

I'm OK with this, especially since Snarky will be collateral damage.

[podoboq]

if allinrach binds them.

If they don't, then we're already hitting scum, so that's good.

[podoboq]

oh wait I forgot the book we get to pass it on right?

Yas, please put it on the most scum / useless pair so that we can cuck them together.

[podoboq]

get kinky with gork

We are both town. Rach is, too, and as such she will probably get to choose who gets lynched out of the rest...sadly these might both be town..

get kinky with it: Podo

A man is completely missing this part. Rach is town- CONFIRMED town. So is All In. Podo should say no. A man is laying low for reasons but before something stupid happens will let it known he is a Voyeur seeing things others don't. Wasting 2 town for scum at this point is a dumb move.

How the fuck are either Rach or All-in CONFIRMED town, and why aren't you putting the same pressure on gork to deny shos?

[podoboq]

A man is

*I am* laying low for reasons

The mafia has no night kill, so there's basically no reason to be this needlessly secretive, unless there is no secret, and you're actually just scum, in which case go on, continue as is.

[podoboq]

Assuming that we cuck All-In&Rach and they book Kuroi&Snarky, these will be the surviving "playerslots."

dramonic, DrippingGoofball, Fresh, Gorkington, Jaqen Hghar, KuroiXHF&SnarkySnowman, MangaofIllusion, podoboq, shos

That's an odd number. If they nightkill, they lose, unless I'm completely misunderstanding something here.

Mechanically, an odd number of "playerslots" MUST be cucked every day, and another player is removed by being absorbed into another. There is no nightkill.

[podoboq]

Fun fact: knowledge that is exclusive to one player is not CONFIRMED unless that player's alignment is also confirmed. Jaqen, they aren't conf town. If you want to claim cop, in this game, you're gonna have to do better than softing it.

Mafia has no nightkill. There's NO reason I can posit not to fullclaim. What are all of your targets and all of your results?

[podoboq]

And, think this through really well- why would a man as scum be stepping in at the last second as scum to stop the tragedy of killing 2 townies in lieu of just one- especially in a game where town decides whether or not scum even get a NK? A man has seen your brilliance before Gork, just think this through.

I assumed you checked the "pair" today. Seems like bad checks, but whatever, I'll think. You better start looking town real fast for me to buy any of this.

[podoboq]

i) im not brilliant and never have been.
ii) its been 24 hours since shos proposed to me and i didnt reject.

podo has about 9 hours to make up his mind at this point.

Also, it is important that I survive, gork can confirm that I can back this..

Knowing some extra bullshit about shos, do you believe that a day cop is likely?

[podoboq]

ii) its been 24 hours since shos proposed to me and i didnt reject.

We'll give at least a 24 hour lag time between someone asking before posting the result.

You can likely deny him. This isn't only on me.

[podoboq]

OK, so Gork is town. The problem is that only you, me, shos, dram, and Rach/All-in are up for cucking.

I won't kill dram here, and as far as I can tell, you don't want to kill shos, so I feel like it's between the two of us.

[podoboq]

It's that Shos quote which is cause for a man to single you out btw.

Who is this directed at.

[podoboq]

You. A man is explaining why he is singling out your pairing over Gork/Shos which now is seemingly a moot point.

I understand what you're saying now.

[podoboq]

get kinky with it: Podo

No just sayin'

Same as Gork here. If Rach/All-in snipe me without first getting consent, they are scum claiming.

[podoboq]

Sorry dram, but for what it matters, we do have a cop-claim citing two innocent results on the two people up for rope.

[podoboq]

The desperation of losing both partners would be a reason for that sort of gambit.

kuroi would have to be town for that to be true.

Yeah I agree. Still doesn't mean it is a certainty ... it is not impossible that Kuroi is just playing Fake Mafia Traitor for some reason.

But either way I think making DGB and myself a pair and getting rid of us tomorrow helps clear up that possibility quickly.

Kuroi is dying tomorrow, end of story. I'd rather take Snarky with him, but maybe that's just me.

[podoboq]

Also, a man is seeing one scum in the MoI/DGB pairing.

I misinterpreted this when I initially read it. I need confirmation that this is a cop result, not a read, since he has also claimed to have a result on Rach & All-in.

[podoboq]

So he's had two checks, but four results. So he looks at *couples* and gets how many scum are in that couple?

[podoboq]

Exactly what did you think a man was getting at with his question to you or did you even see it? Feck!

Ignoring your posts is a serious possibility. Misreading or misinterpreting them is another.

Alright, so we lynch a pair that includes one scum, or they're both town and we confirm scum in Jaqen. Seems fine. We still have to deal with who dies today.

[podoboq]

@Mod: replace me. I wanna play mafia, not charades

I love you dramonic. I'll do my best to salvage this, I promise.

[podoboq]

Gork is definitely the most town player here.

Gork is definitely my strongest town read here.

Agreed. I'd be null on shos, accept that Gork trusts him.

Dramonic

's slot I trust completely. Rach/All-in are supposedly cop-cleared. I think we either ignore Jaqen and lynch the pair, or I'm the most reasonable lynch today. I'm less obv-town / useful than shos, Gork, or dramonic, and I'll promise to book Magna&DGB.

If we lynch Rach/All-in, they should only book Magna/DGB IF they both flip town. If either flips scum, we know that the cop claim is bullshit, and the book should go to Kuroi/Snarky or Jaqen/Fresh to hit certain scum.

[podoboq]

Jaqen/Fresh to hit certain scum

Never mind, if Jaqen is claimed scum, don't book there. We can just lynch Jaqen alone tomorrow, and Fresh doesn't have to die as well. Don't know why my mental gymnastics failed so hard there.

[podoboq]

I'm 100% going to book Magna&DGB. DO NOT start the next day with everyone trying to link up. Take time to fucking talk about shit, and take time to let people with supposed day actions actually use them. Today could have been a massive waste, and everyone just hooking up right at day start destroyed town's ability to truly control the lynch. That said, also just deny Magna/DGB if they attempt to slut it up with you. As far as I'm concerned, if they attempt to, they're scum claiming, because both have shown that they're willing to go down with the ship.

Force Jaqen to claim a check on somebody, etc, etc, you guys know what you're doing. I just wanted some final thoughts before I got cucked to death.

[podoboq]

A man doesn't like how Dramonic is rage quitting as soon as something disrupts the path being followed at the time.

Mafia is a game, and is intended to be fun. If something is getting in the way of you having fun, you have an obligation to yourself to leave.

If this really doesn't make any sense to you, you're lacking in empathetic maturity. Your attitude creates a barrier to playing the game which is unfun to navigate.

[podoboq]

Should we, you know, claim turn-offs or something to confirm that anyone can get it on with eachother? The only confirmed pair in the three of us is Pine > me.

Also, how exactly do we want to do this in the first place? This is our lynch mechanic, so town should have control of it.

Could we all vote on who we want to be left out? I'm fine being the lynch today, but if town wants to leave out someone else, then we should do that.

[podoboq]

i kind of feel like dropping what shos claimed in the PT here.

Let him do it unless you mistrust him.

[podoboq]

and i also really dont want people to carry him forward based on me having a poor perception of what his claim would mean.

The only reason I'm OK dying is because I assumed he had some town PR. So yeah, if this claim is heavily suspect or useless, I'd vote for shos getting cucked today.

[podoboq]

Helping This OOC Stand Out Better

You all now have the ability to Say No to Getting Kinky! If someone asks you to Get Kinky, you have the ability to Just Say No. Simply quote the offender asking you and post, in bold,

No, Just Sayin'

and that person will FAIL. You only get the ability to Say No once per day phase. Remember that incompatible kinks still fail as well. Remember that incompatible kinks still fail as well. We'll give at least a 24 hour lag time between someone asking before posting the result.

Not paying enough attention to even know the rules of this game is unacceptable.

[podoboq]

get kinky wit: Podo

No, Just Sayin'

I'm really getting tired of these contentless couple attempts. It's worse than naked voting.


Either way, we're fucked. Nothing we can do about this.

Helping This OOC Stand Out Better

You all now have the ability to Say No to Getting Kinky! If someone asks you to Get Kinky, you have the ability to Just Say No. Simply quote the offender asking you and post, in bold,

No, Just Sayin'

and that person will FAIL.

You only get the ability to Say No once per day phase.

Remember that incompatible kinks still fail as well. We'll give at least a 24 hour lag time between someone asking before posting the result.

Nonetheless, gonna try it.

[podoboq]

For what it matters, if the gods take mercy on us and shos fails, Pine needs to get with me not the other way around.

Pine, we don't know if me > you is compatible, but we know it works the other way around.

[podoboq]

podo, that was a really bad gambit which I don't know why you did. now you've practically doomed us to luck in whether or not any pairing is compatible. at worst, we lose 3 townies. way to go. I think that post really showed well that I was vla until today. so you "tired of this" is super stupid, if you're town.

There's no gambit? If I can say no, then Pine and I are an autopair. You're the only one who dies.

[podoboq]

unless you and pine dont line up.
it doesnt matter.
you cant say no.

Pine is dramonic's slot, and we hooked up yesterday. We know we work.

[podoboq]

There's no gambit? If I can say no, then Pine and I are an autopair. You're the only one who dies.

You pointed out how the rules specifically say you can only say no once a day. You already said No. What is the point of expecting the Mods to not follow the rules they established?

I've done a bad job at reading the rules so far, and elements are incredibly vague. For example, I didn't realize that when I said no to dramonic, I would automatically be moved to the failed column. As far as I've read, that was never explicitly stated, so I'm gonna go out on a limb and just say that I have no way of knowing what will and won't work or why at this point. Might as well give it a try.

[podoboq]

yeah i didnt know that saying no would prevent us from then making a choice ourselves.

If anything else, I think this miscommunication on the mod's part might afford us a second nay-say. Since I was immediately put in the no pile for saying no, I never actually was given a chance to pick anybody before scum would be allowed to pick me again.

[podoboq]

If podo really cannot say no again, then you should be reading into which pair you make permanent. These would be moi and dgb.

I'll make my own decision, thank you.

Alright, so you're replacing into what is (to me) an obv-town slot. I trust that you're town, and I respect that players are responsible for making their own decisions. That said, there is basically no town motivation NOT to book Magna and DGB. Basically every player agrees on that.

Please review the game before deciding to forsake town's decision here. You very well might be throwing the game.

[podoboq]

Thankfully Agent Aardvark (which is how I will forever more refer to Pine in Mafia games) did his job.

Never requesting Get Kinky from this half of the couple today and will preemptively break any completed matches made with us.

DGB and I absolutely need to be stranded today.

Kuroi and Snarky need to join ASAP and then Jaqen absolutely should be testing that pair with public results. Not doing so on bullshit "A man does what he wants" grounds is more or less a scum claim which would be confirmed if DGB and I both flip Town.

I'm more or less 50/50 on that happening. Both DGB and Jaqen I could see as scum.

DGB flips scum? I'd be looking strong at Kuroi again.
Jaqen is lying scum? Strand the Rach / Firebringer duo in a heartbeat as odds favor him faking that result to save their hides when all looked lost.

I'll be playing Breath of the Wild for the next few days. In the meantime, everything Manga just said is perfect, and anyone who plays against it is scum or illiterate.

[podoboq]

So Jaqen we need your result from last night

Not how this works. I no longer have patience for people misunderstanding the rules of this game. Please review how Jaqen's ability works.

[podoboq]

I approve of

that

partnering

Nice pronoun game.

[podoboq]

I don't know what to do in this game without a vote.

Start with reading.

[podoboq]

I want to say no because I still think kuroi is scum. Thoughts?

Unacceptable. He's not getting stranded today anyway, even though we all know he's scum, because we are required to kill Magna/DGB today out of policy. You pairing with Kuroi makes us able to cop him, and also ensures that we kill Magna/DGB today. Refusing to follow town's plan is scum.

[podoboq]

Shos and Podo – Please actively acknowledge you understand not to join up until after Jaqen has given his claimed result.

Acknowledged.

Podo, would you come with me to bed

I haz toys

I'll let you know when to send the request. I don't really have any interest in talking in PT anyway, so it can wait.

[podoboq]

A man is seeing 2 scum in Snark/Kuroi!

Alright, so whether or not Jaqen is telling the truth, we now have another worthwhile play. We can kill Kuroi today. Have Snarky split, and we cuck Kuroi. If Kuroi flips town, we get the same result, but we get to KEEP MoI and DGB.

The downside to this is that if we assume Jaqen is telling the truth, and we kill DGB/MoI, it's possible that they book Kuroi/Snarky, and we get to kill them together, but if there is one scum in DGB/MoI, we might not be able to control the book in the case of their deaths regardless.

At the very least, I want opinions on this from Snarky, MoI, DGB, Jaqen. We have over a week.

If shos, Magna, DGB, Snarky, or I take any actions before significant discussion on this topic, and town reaching a decision on the matter, they are scum claiming.

[podoboq]

Gorkington, I love you. As long as Fresh will join us on this, and we can appropriately finagle couples, this seems to be the best way. We need Magna or DGB to be able to fuck Fresh, or vice versa.

I agree that it seems unlikely for scum to pair knowing that a town daycop is going to check them, so I doubt the game is solved, and at this point I'm thinking Jaqen is scum, but if I'm wrong, then we just win in two days.

[podoboq]

A man is seeing 2 scum in Snark/Kuroi!

Alright, so whether or not Jaqen is telling the truth, we now have another worthwhile play. We can kill Kuroi today. Have Snarky split, and we cuck Kuroi. If Kuroi flips town, we get the same result, but we get to KEEP MoI and DGB.

The downside to this is that if we assume Jaqen is telling the truth, and we kill DGB/MoI, it's possible that they book Kuroi/Snarky, and we get to kill them together, but if there is one scum in DGB/MoI, we might not be able to control the book in the case of their deaths regardless.

At the very least, I want opinions on this from Snarky, MoI, DGB, Jaqen. We have over a week.

If shos, Magna, DGB, Snarky, or I take any actions before significant discussion on this topic, and town reaching a decision on the matter, they are scum claiming.

I've been very vocal about wanting my pairing DEAD.

OK, cool, but let's look at logic. If we believe Jaqen is town telling the truth, killing you flips one scum and one town. If we kill Kuroi or Snarky, we net one scum, and lose no town.

In the case that Jaqen is lying, killing you likely flips two town. Killing Kuroi or Snarky may still kill scum in the case that Jaqen is lying.

We kill just as many scum if we DON'T lynch your pair, and potentially more.

[podoboq]

With a result of two scum in Kuroi/Snark, I think it's important to consider the book. If we can permanently link those two, then that's a good deal.

If we kill Jaqen, and he's town, then he books Kuroi/Snark. If we kill Jaqen and he's scum, lying, then we don't need to book Kuroi and Snark anyway.

[podoboq]

only question is whether results are tampered with.
we should probably be trying to play less on trying to solve the game via mechanics alone at this point because of how closed the setup is.

how are people acting/behaving?

who do we think is scum beyond just jaqen's results?

it feels way too simple for it to just be snarky/kuroi/one of moi/dgb.

My three biggest scumreads, regardless of results, are Kuroi > Jaqen > Snarky, in that order.

[podoboq]

I have something to say on the framer issue that takes more time than I have to give right now.

Please hold off on moving forward til Monday if possible.

Will do. Good luck with work.

[podoboq]

I'm OK sticking with the plan.

Option a): Cuck MoI/DGB.
Option b): Cuck Kuroi or Snarky.
Option c): Cuck Jaqen.

A was the original plan, so I'm fine sticking to it. We leashed everybody today so that we could do that, so we can do that. I just wanted to explore our options, and discuss if something better came around that was worth mixing it up. I considered that C is our best option, but that might just be because I don't believe Jaqen. If he's telling the truth, and his results were tampered with, we'll need the day cop to stick around. I hadn't originally considered that.

[podoboq]

Alright, shos, I think we're ready for you to send the love waves at me whenever you're ready. I think the town has reached a decision.

[podoboq]

Alright, so Jaqen almost conf scum, there's almost definitely at least one scum in Snarky and Kuroi, and then we probably have one more scum to find.

NO pairing until town has discussed. If people are pairing without significant discussion, it's scummy. If Jaqen or Snarky/Kuroi attempt to pair with anybody, deny them. We can't kill both slots without sacrificing another, so we might have to let one through today, but town should discuss and decide which if either.

I'm gonna go do a little reread on how people treated our options yesterday. I happen to remember Fresh calling me scummy for considering NOT killing DGB/MoI, and I'd like to point out that in hindsight, it's possible that scum talked us out of pursuing one of our better options.

[podoboq]

Also, at this point I'm assuming the scum win con is to have scum represented in at least half of the player slots, meaning if there is a pair with scum, that pair IS scum (though town would retain their wincon). I'm sure it could be something else, but I'm having a hard time figuring out what it could be, and I think this is our best option to play against.

In that case, look at the player list.

FirebringingRachMarie, Fresh, Gorkington, Jaqen Hghar, podoboq, shos, SnarkySnowKuroi

There are seven player slots and probably three of them are scum. I believe two are Jaqen and Snarky/Kuroi, and I'm not sure on the third. I have some educated guesses. What I'm saying is that we should be treating today like LYLO. If we cuck wrong, we probably lose. If we cuck right, we might get no book, and scum might get a kill, leading us into 5 "player" LYLO the next day.

[podoboq]

I agree and I would also say we definitely need to cuck Jaqen that means he was lying uggh

He was

probably

lying. We still don't know if there's some kind of role that would screw with investigative results, but it seems far more plausible to me that scum would fake claim day cop than the world in which not only do we have a town day cop, but there's also a scum role that ruins the results, and they accurately ruined results before the role was even claimed. Also, Jaqen's play has been scummy, so that's a bulletpoint.

[podoboq]

good point but Im beginning to think its more likely the game is mountainous

This was my assumption at game start.

[podoboq]

@Podo, yes it was scummy to not try and confirm scum. Which is what anything but killing DGB/MoI was gonna help us do.

You were trying to confirm scum in Jaqen, correct? I was discussing the option of KILLING Jaqen, which would have confirmed his alignment one way or the other, and therefore confirmed the possible validity of his checks.

Listen, you are NOT the only person yesterday who wanted to forgo our other options, so I'm not stupid enough to scumread you for it. Town agreed to a plan, and you were one of many voices who contributed toward us following that plan, but you called me scummy for wanting to consider our other options (which would also confirm scum). THAT is what I have a problem with, and that's what I'm considering when I'm trying to find any more scum.

[podoboq]

Town: Opinions on cucking Rach/Fire, Jaqen, and Kuroi/Snarky all today?

[podoboq]

Town: Opinions on cucking Rach/Fire, Jaqen, and Kuroi/Snarky all today?

[podoboq]

How about cucking Jaqn and Snarky?

That's only two player slots. There's no way for us to functionally cuck an even number of slots.

[podoboq]

OK. So we cuck one person.

Jaqen.

Badabing Badaboobies.

Killing Jaqen is a foregone conclusion because he may as well be confirmed scum at this point. We have several other slots we scumread. We have power during the day phase, and lose it during the night, so if we can get multiple "lynches" that town is comfortable with in one day phase, we should take it.

[podoboq]

....So instead of killing scum, we do some other kind of dance?

Are you fucking with me?

We kill scum, and more scum, and more scum, all in one day phase, rather than one at a time, with multiple night phases in between.. Are you just not reading, or are you scum who's intentionally misrepping me?

[podoboq]

No. This isn't making any sense.

What's the problem with killing scum, and then killing scum?

Nightphases reduce the number of player slots, by bookin one player to another. If we book to town, we remove a town player slot. If we book a town with a scum, I believe we remove a town player slot, because I assume that player slot will be treated as scum.

If we kill scum today, then move to the night phase, one way or the other, we are losing a town player slot during the night phase, unless we magically are able to get scum to pair with eachother today, and the scum we lynch books that pair.

TL;DR: Night phases hurt town. We can lynch multiple players in one day phase if we are well coordinated. Therefore, we should lynch the most scum possible at once in order to reduce the number of night phases.

[podoboq]

Fair enough. Let's cuck Snarky.

I can bang someone else, but I have to do it soon. I'm leaving work shortly.

Asking For Consent: FirebringingRachMarie, Fresh, Gorkington, Jaqen Hghar, podoboq, shos, SnarkySnowKuroi

You and Snarky are linked. You're going down with the ship too.

[podoboq]

Asking For Consent:

FirebringingRachMarie

, Fresh, Gorkington,

Jaqen Hghar

, podoboq, shos,

SnarkySnowKuroi

I'm talking about removing the striked out slots. That leaves four slots going into the night. If any scum is left, they will have a kill or some couple will get booked, leaving us with three playerslot lylo tomorrow. This is assuming that there is EXACTLY one scum in Fresh, Gork, myself, and shos. If there are two, my plan causes us to lose outright. If there are none, and we are all town, my plan causes us to win outright.

[podoboq]

And I've done that because people keep scum reading me.

Rightfully so.

Listen, if you're town, and you believe Snarky is scum, you are already doomed. We need to kill your slot at some point. Crying about how you got to that point isn't going to solve anything. You have one win condition, and that requires you to die.

[podoboq]

Well tell me what to do quickly because I'm out of work at 11.

Nothing active. Read the game. Develop opinions on our situation. Decide who you scumread and who you townread. Consider the logic of the game, and what the best avenue to achieve your win condition is.

Do not attempt to pair anybody. If anybody attempts to link with you, deny it.

[podoboq]

Reads (in order from scummiest to towniest):

SCUM

Jaqen: He claimed a cop clear and his cop clear was wrong. We have no reason to believe that there is a day cop, or ANY non vanilla roles in this game. His play is scummy, and frankly, I'm tired of reading third person passive.

Kuroi: Paired with Snarky despite the fact that he supposedly scumreads her, claiming survivalism. Playing to survive, not to win, is scummy. The reason that he paired with Snarky is because Snarky is the only player useless/scummy enough to not deny him within 24 hours.

SnarkySnowman: Came in to listen to town and deny Kuroi only a couple of minutes after god came in and said too late fucker. It was LAMIST.

Firebringer: Refuses to attempt to understand even the basic mechanics of the game. Probably the most useless person I've ever had to play a game with, and is immediately going on to a blacklist I am starting exclusively because of this game. Also, Jaqen's claim came in to save the pair with RachMarie, and I townread Rach.

MIXED

shos: I didn't like him pairing with me a couple of day phases ago without FIRST asking me for consent. He locked me in, and ultimately made the decision to kill a much townier slot than his own against my will, and without significant prior discussion. This is the only overtly scummy thing I see in his game. This is the player that most worries me out of the group I want to bring into tomorrow.

Fresh: Read recent interaction. He seemed the most pushy to "stick to the plan" yesterday, and even went so far as to call me scummy for examining our other lines. Aside from this, the majority of his play has seemed generally towny to me.

TOWN

RachMarie: Has been a bit helpful, but doesn't radiate town. I have a problem with how many potential lovers were scorned before she came out with her mechanical disadvantage to being paired with, but I assume that was simply poor play, and it's understandable.

Gorkington: Obvtown. I have no intention right now to spell this out, but Gorkington is town, and anyone who doesn't see it is oblivious.

[podoboq]

Scum must needs physically outnumber us to win.

The way that "playerslots" has been used by the moderator, and the mechanic of linking players in the first place, implies that two players BECOME one. The alignment of that pair comes into question when those two slots are different.

If you think the moderators are likely to respond to me explicitly asking them for the scum win condition, you're fucking nuts, but I'll go ahead and do it.

[podoboq]

I feel like an idiot, but message sent. I'll let you know the results if I receive any.

[podoboq]

With the possibility of eliminating multiple players in a single stroke, getting kill happy as you suggest is reckless and scum motivated.

I'm suggesting a line of play that plays to a very specific win condition that I have spelled out. You are describing a DIFFERENT win condition, applying my line of play, then calling that line of play scummy, but none of that strategy is informed by the win condition you are describing.

If I am wrong, and the win condition is DIFFERENT from the one that I have based my line of play on, then I will adapt my play to something better suited to the new information.


Describing a hypothetical situation in which my strategy doesn't work when I have explicitly stated that I do not think that hypothetical situation is in play, then calling my strategy scum motivated, is at best neglecting to adequately read what I'm saying and is at worst just flagrant misrepping.

[podoboq]

A man is requesting both Rach and Gorkington ask of the mod the same question so this one can't lie and say the mod wouldn't answer him.

Also, why specifically Rach and Gork? Are they your biggest townreads all of a sudden? Why is Firebringer not included in that since you have a supposed copclear on the pair?

[podoboq]

Those ones have always been townreads. A man is leaving out firebringer because many are in doubt of him on the first place. And a man isn't talking about a hypothetical situation- that's you. A man is talking about what the rules clearly state (and which he is already double checking with a mod). They state "Any Lovers are treated as a single slot for the purposes of Orgy Mechanic," and "Each day phase will start with an odd-number of playerslots. If at any time this cannot be accomplished, the Town will win.", and that's all there is to playerslots. The rest is something you are fabricating to push an agenda. How the bloody hell is making things up and fear-mongering town into a course of action not scum motivated?

I'm doing exactly what I did yesterday. Examining our options, and trying to ferret out discussion on elements of the game we do not know.

NONE of what you just said outlines a scum wincondition. None of what you are saying rules out how I was reading the scum wincondition. If the mods come in and tell me something explicit that rules out what I'm considering (I asked three questions by the way. What is the scum wincon, are merged playerslots considered a single player for the purpose of majority, and if so, what is the alignment of a playerslot which includes both town and scum players,) then and only then will I consider it impossible.

The only agenda I'm pushing is an attempt at eliminating the most scum possible in the safest way possible. If you, Jaqen/Kuroi, and Rach/Firebringer ALL have to die at some point, then we should examine and discuss the possibility of murdering them all at once, and the various pros and cons of doing so.

Deterring

us from that discussion is scum motivated. This entire game has been a process of town not communicating enough, and an abundance of players hindering that communication where possible.

[podoboq]

Cucking them gave us multiple insights that:
Jaqen is likely scum
1 of Rach/Fire could likely be scum now.
Likely NOT two of Kuroi/Snark being scum.

But had we cucked Jaqen yesterday and he was indeed scum, it just wouldn't have told us anything else about anyone.

Cucking Jaqen yesterday would have given us multiple insights that:
Jaqen is confirmed scum
1 of Rach/Fire could likely be scum now.
Likely NOT two of Kuroi/Snark being scum.
Likely neither of MoI or DGB being scum.

A scumflip from Jaqen accomplishes all the same things, but it also KILLS scum and DOESN'T kill town.

[podoboq]

Also moderators got back to me. No, they won't tell me the scum wincondition. They did confirm, though, that in the case that majority is counted for win condition, a simple majority is all that matters (not taking into account "playerslots"), and all of the mechanics around playerslots only matter for the whole cucking and booking and them dying together at night thing.

Essentially, normal scum win condition is likely intact. We can play a little more conservatively.

[podoboq]

A man is pointing out to this one that discussion doesn't mean 'follow podoq's plan'. Discussion is bringing opposing views to the table and making a decision.

Town: Opinions on cucking Rach/Fire, Jaqen, and Kuroi/Snarky all today?

I was attempting to do the latter, but the only two who have humored discussing my idea today have been scum. "Discussion is bringing opposing view to the table and making a decision." This is what I'm attempting to do, and you called it "scum motivated."

[podoboq]

If we both flip Town? Jaqen is not linked and should be tomorrow’s strand. Make him still perform a scan before flipping on the off chance he is Town and probably don’t direct it as if he is scum it is 100% WIFOM. Flip Snarky / Kuroi the next day for the same reasons listed in the first scenario if Jaqen is Town. If Jaqen is scum it probably is best served to flip Fire / Rach. The fact that Rach has specifically dodged my question about whether Fire is no longer Town to her if Jaqen is scum is pretty telling.

I had forgotten that Magna laid out a plan. If we don't multikill today, this seems best.

[podoboq]

That's me. I agree that it is probably mountainous and we should cuck jaqen. in turn he will kill by using the lovebook, and then we'll cuck the snarkuroi pair. I don't see why this is too complicated though.

We just need an OK from everyone and let's get it done.

Why will Jaqen kill with the book of love? We don't know that booking is mandatory. If we kill scum, maybe they'll refuse to use it, and then scum will get a nightkill.

[podoboq]

A man won't be scanning anyone today.

So we're all treating this as the scumclaim it is, right? Cool.

[podoboq]

Any time anybody in a game is taking this tact with a man, he is often likely to do just the opposite out of spite.

Also, I'd like to point out that this attitude is not only antitown, and generally reprehensible, it is by definition cheating.

"Play to win the game."

If you intentionally do not play to your win condition, you are a game thrower and a cheater. In the case that this is a legitimate attitude of yours, rather than just posturing, you should reevaluate your perspective on the game and/or never play it again.

[podoboq]

1. A man doesn't reward condescending asshats by bending to their will. A man signs up to play a game the same as anyone else, and while we may be all working toward the same goal that doesn't mean someone else gets to instruct you like a dog to do what they want. If this one is weak enough to bend to another's will fine. A man isn't.

A man plays to their win condition. If you have a strict advantage in the game, and refuse to use it in any way, you are game throwing. There's nothing to muddy it.

2. A man's role was three shot. No shots left= no investigation.

This may be the case (it happens to make your claim even less believable), but it has nothing to do with the statement that I quoted: "Any time anybody in a game is taking this tact with a man, he is often likely to do just the opposite out of spite."

This is not about a specific issue, it's about an attitude. It says that you will inform your play decisions based at least partially on spite, even when that is strictly at odds with playing the game to your own win condition. This attitude is a flagrant game throwing attitude, and if it's genuine, you should be ashamed of it.

[podoboq]

he is often likely to do just the opposite out of spite. A man won't be scanning anyone today.

Also, it's your intention to imply here that you are refusing to use your ability out of spite.

[podoboq]

So, how about dropping the I'll founded, off point accusations and just enjoying the game?

I'm not accusing you of anything. You're scum, and you never had a cop ability in the first place to intentionally refuse to use out of spite.

I'm making a point right now that what you're saying outlines an attitude that is

cheating

. I'm not exactly going to enjoy the game if I let that slide, because as a long time player and moderator of these games, that kind of attitude makes the game not worth playing. It's cheating, and it's important that you, and anyone who reads this, knows that.

[podoboq]

Any time anybody in a game is taking this tact with a man, he is often likely to do just the opposite out of spite.

THIS is the statement I have a problem with, and THIS is the statement that you should be a respectful enough person and player to admit is wrong.

This does not have a context in which it is appropriate. That attitude is strictly cheating, and is unforgivable. If you refuse to own up to that, and would like to keep dodging what I'm saying, then I have nothing more to say on it. I understand that you are playing a game right now, and you have a reason to be stubborn here, but it is important, for the respect of this game and its rules, that it is made explicit how unacceptable this attitude is.

I am not accusing you of cheating. I believe you're posturing, and that is totally acceptable gameplay, but that doesn't mean it's inappropriate to respond to your posturing at face value.

[podoboq]

It's laughable that you think a limited use investigation in a game of this size= fake claim but an unlimited use role to look at 2 players and find out if one or more are scum is fine.

Let's bring it back to the game and talk about this. Your claim, if true, makes you the only town PR. Otherwise, any town would have claimed to defend you, because the consensus at this point seems to be that the game is mountainous.

Your claim implies that there is ONE town power role in this game is a cop which is not only not sane, but also limited shot, and also NOT even getting results on a specific player, and scum MUST have some sort of power role that is interacting with that. That is, too me, even more unbelievable that we have an unlimited day cop with a scum PR to interact with it.

[podoboq]

Also, what are the logistics of a scum interacting with daycop results? Do we have multiple millers who just don't know that they're millers? Are scum picking couples as they form to increment or decrement the scumcount in them?

Having roles with DAY actions interact WITH one another, especially when one is receiving results during the day phase modified by the other role with a day action, is so far outside of the box logistically that I fail to see how it is possible that our moderators would even deal with the fuss, much less decide that is was balanced.

[podoboq]

Just previously he is stating that a man's limited use is making his claim more unbelievable.

That is, too me, even more unbelievable than that we have an unlimited day cop with a scum PR to interact with it.

You either can't read or you're just misrepping me. I explained why I believe a 3-shot day cop is even more unbelievable than an unlimited day cop, you somehow read the I believed the opposite.

[podoboq]

But, to answer this one's question

What question are you answering? This one?

Also, what are the logistics of a scum interacting with daycop results? Do we have multiple millers who just don't know that they're millers? Are scum picking couples as they form to increment or decrement the scumcount in them?

So you haven't taken the time to consider the mechanics by which you have obviously received false information?



Also, cop isn't a crappy role. It's arguably one of the most powerful town roles in the game next to jailkeeper.

[podoboq]

So you haven't taken the time to consider the mechanics by which you have obviously received false information. Got it. I'm done guys. I'm not responding to anything from Jaqen for the rest of the game. I'll read it, but I'm done responding to this nonsense.

If any town has a problem with this, let me know, but I believe I'm doing more harm than good by quoting him at this point.

[podoboq]

There's a *than* I typoed out of there. If you can't read that grammatically incorrect sentence and discern what the typo is from the context of the entire discussion, you're a moron.

[podoboq]

So you haven't taken the time to consider the mechanics by which you have obviously received false information.

Setup spec isn't outguessing the moderator. Refusing to consider what roles or mechanics might be interacting with yours, when it is a fact that roles or mechanics are interacting with yours, is too irresponsible and stupid to be plausible.

[podoboq]

That is, too me, even more unbelievable *than* that we have an unlimited day cop with a scum PR to interact with it.

[podoboq]

lets start linking up so we can get this over with.

In the case of lynching scum, I imagine that they might be able to forego using the book as a way to gain access to the nightkill. We should consider the following three options:

A) Jaqen is scum and can and will choose not to book, making our pairings today irrelevant.
B) Jaqen is scum and either must book or will choose to, in which case we probably pair the towny players with towny players and scummy players with scummy players.
C) Jaqen is town, and will choose to book. I have no idea how to predict his decisions in this case.

[podoboq]

The lynched player will

get to

hand out the Book of Love to one of the Lover groups.

not a has to.

In that case, pairs are not likely to matter much if at all. Any reason not to just pair with whoever we're comfortable being linked to? Should we leash the Rach/Fire and Kuroi/Snark slots and have them pair with eachother?

[podoboq]

i dont really see what that would accomplish

On the off chance that scumJaqen decides to use the book instead of the bullet, I'd rather him not be able to force anyone into one of the required kills we have to make.

[podoboq]

The lynched player will

get to

hand out the Book of Love to one of the Lover groups.

not a has to.

In that case, pairs are not likely to matter much if at all. Any reason not to just pair with whoever we're comfortable being linked to? Should we leash the Rach/Fire and Kuroi/Snark slots and have them pair with eachother?

Statistically, this is a really good idea.

I can't tell if this is sarcastic or not.

[podoboq]

Permission to bone shos?

At the very least, I want gork and Rach to show their approval before anything happens.


Also, still wish people would discuss my idea of a multikill today. If you're against it, that's fine, but if I could at least get town to start talking about why they're against it, that would be nice.

[podoboq]

multikill as in trying to cuck multiple people?

Correct.

[podoboq]

Hitching me and kuroi to allrach sounds like a horrible idea if there is scum outside of us that isn't jaqen.

Why?

Rereading jaqen. That needs to get sorted asap.

He's sorted. He's scum. We're killing him today. If you want to spend what obviously little time you devote to this game rereading an obvscum slot that all of town has agreed to kill, have fun.

[podoboq]

Unless there are other objections, I'd only like to ask what we think the pairings should be. Stranding Jaqen means I need a new dance partner.

Let's start narrowing down the options.

The following are pairings we know work:
shos > podoboq
Gorkington > shos
RachMarie/Firebringer > anyone

Jaqen > Fresh

Since you and Fresh aren't an option, we can cross that one out.

Either me or Gorkington get shos, so

shos, do you want to pair with me or Gorkington?

[podoboq]

well, anyone else who can fuck you. If we lack such options, I can fuck you, and podo can fuck someone else (assuming there is one like that)

Worst case scenario, Rach can pair with anyone.

[podoboq]

Wait, shos, did you also claim 0 turn offs?

[podoboq]

Fine enough.

Get kinky with Snarky

YOU ARE ALREADY PAIRED WITH SNARKY

YOU NEED SOMEONE OUTSIDE OF YOU TWO TO JOIN YOUR GROUP AS A THREESOME

HOW IS IT EVEN POSSIBLE THAT YOU ARE PAYING THIS LITTLE ATTENTION

[podoboq]

Fair enough. Let's cuck Snarky.

I can bang someone else, but I have to do it soon. I'm leaving work shortly.

Asking For Consent: FirebringingRachMarie, Fresh, Gorkington, Jaqen Hghar, podoboq, shos, SnarkySnowKuroi

You and Snarky are linked. You're going down with the ship too.

I'm so fucking tired of people skating by either not paying attention to the game or its mechanics or pretending to not pay attention to the game or its mechanics.

You, Snarky, and Firebringer can fuck off as far as I'm concerned.

[podoboq]

This is awkward.

I felt like we had something going during day one.

I enjoyed you chewing out Snarky, but then you decided to

eat

him out for no reason and revealed yourself as scum.

[podoboq]

Snarky's a chick.

Apologies to Snarky. I know this isn't the first time I made that mistake.

[podoboq]

Unless there are other objections, I'd only like to ask what we think the pairings should be. Stranding Jaqen means I need a new dance partner.

Let's start narrowing down the options.

The following are pairings we know work:
shos > podoboq
Gorkington > shos
RachMarie/Firebringer > anyone

Jaqen > Fresh

Since you and Fresh aren't an option, we can cross that one out.

Either me or Gorkington get shos, so

shos, do you want to pair with me or Gorkington?

So we are going with this?

What I posted are just pairings that we know work. It's not a plan.

Rach and shos can pair with anyone. So Gork, Fresh, and I need to figure out which pair between us works, then you or shos take the other, and whichever of the two of you is left goes with Snarky/Kuroi.

[podoboq]

Gork, Fresh, I have one turn-off. It's S&M. If either of you DO NOT have S&M as a kink, I can pair with you. shos or Rach can pair with the other, then shos or Rach can pair with Kuroi/Snark.

[podoboq]

sorry podo.
it wasnt meant to be.

If Fresh is also to kinky for me, then hopefully you can pair with eachother. If not, we're gonna have to try to pair one of the three of us with Kuroi/Snarky. I don't want to try to ask their kinks and work with that stuff, because I expect them to lie.

[podoboq]

I claimed my kinks and stuff on the last page. So it should be public knowledge if you can bang me.

missed that.

So I can mate Fresh.
Then either shos > Gork & Rach > Kuroi/Snarky or vice versa. How do we decide those pairings? I'm inclined to just let shos pick who he wants and have Rach take the other.

[podoboq]

Get Kinky Wit-It: Fresh

[podoboq]

Alright guys, let's solve this.

First of all, if Rach's request isn't valid (which it probably isn't), Snarky has a chance to deny Jaqen. If he doesn't, then Snarky (or Kuroi I think) later can FORCE break up the pair, and Jaqen can't request that partnership again in the day, so that's good.

If Snarky and Kuroi refuse to work with us, it's a full scumclaim. We kill them all tomorrow, but we likely lose town today. There's nine players. There's likely only three scum. If we lose two town, we still maintain the majority, so even if Kuroi/Snarky don't break up the pair, and we lose Rach and her partner, we are still in a good position.

get kinky wit: gorkington

No, Just Sayin'

hey fuck you jaqen this cycle isnt over yet.

THIS presents a problem, though. Now we need to figure out how to safely get these two BACK together. You can just move yourselves to the fail column and let shos request again, but then there's risky business with Jaqen. If Kuroi/Snarky don't do anything, then Jaqen can't fuck it up and you're fine, so let's just play to that.

[podoboq]

it's still ok. we need to get the "second chance" right.

all we need is that people reject jaqen's offers.

But even if we fail that, because Snarky is absent/scum, we still have the majority, and we just kill him tomorrow.

I'm just saying, worst case scenario isn't actually that bad for us. Scum has claimed. The process of killing Jaqen at this point might be overly bureaucratic, but at the least it's inevitable.

[podoboq]

Did we already establish that Gork can't fuck Shos? If so sorry for skimming. But just saying Gork can re-hook up with Shos before second chance if the kinks and such allow.

When Gork and I denied our partners on day 2, not only was the person trying to hook up with us moved to the failed column, but so were we.

But no, we haven't established that Gork can't fuck shos.

[podoboq]

yep I just double checked

MoI/DGB linked snarky and kuroi together as ONE SLOT

hence mine should go through and we should lose Jaqen this round.

Each new day, the Orgy starts anew. Any Lovers are treated as a single slot for the purposes of Orgy Mechanic, although only the first player involved in a Get Kinky request will count for the Off-Limits check. IE Player A and B are lovers, and Player C requests to Get Kinky with Player B. Even if Player A isn't compatible with Player C, this would still work.

You don't request a playerslot, you request a player. Kuroi and Snarky are still unique players, and you have to choose one of them to pair with. Then, only yours and their kinks and turn offs factor in, and also (to my knowledge), only that player is allowed to deny you.

[podoboq]

Gork why

And no, handcuffed couples cannot break up

Hey, how about SAYING NO TO JAQEN WHILE YOU'RE HERE.

[podoboq]

I cannot say no because we already said no to rach -__-

No you didn't.

[podoboq]

fresh might be third scum btw.

Not getting into this right now. We need to stay focused on Jaqen, and this can wait.

Gork should be in the failed column. He definitely can't say no again, according to the rules. There is a possibility that Jaqen fails pairing with Gork (because of kinks), but I don't think taking that risk is very wise.

Instead, Rach can break up, then the failed column is Rach, Kuroi/Snark, shos. Shos can say no. Kuroi/Snark can't pair with Rach. Shos and Kuroi/Snark are inevitable. AFTER the request is made, Gork breaks his pair, moving him and Jaqen to the failed pile. Jaqen can't request Gork. Rach can deny Jaqen. Rach pairs with Gork, all's well.

If anything goes wrong, the outcome won't be WORSE than it stands right now. If we can get Jaqen paired with Kuroi/Snark, that's alright. It reduces their options.


So here's the order of operations I'm spelling out.

• Rach breaks up her pair before the moderator confirms Gork and Jaqen as a couple.
  
• Once failed players can attempt to pair again, shos requests to pair with Snarky (NOT the pair, just the player).
  
• Gorkington breaks his partnership with Jaqen AFTER shos places his request, but BEFORE it is confirmed.
  
• RachMarie pairs with Gorkington.

Opinions? We need to be fast about this.

[podoboq]

Our we could just wait for jaqengork to fail, I don't know that kinks are necessarily something scum would lie about?

If we take that gamble, and we're wrong, then we lose shos, and aren't able to kill Jaqen.

[podoboq]

i like podo's plan a lot.
i think if we go with it, we box jaqen into a corner completely. the only risk is if kuroi/snarky lolpartner jaqen. but if shos is the one who initiates and that initiation happens before i break up with jaqen [should that be an issue], then there really shouldnt be any way for this to not work out as far as i can tell.

There are many ways for this to not work out. I'm not sure how fully I should spell it all out in case scum is too dumb to figure it out on their own, but long story short, I can't see a plausible situation in which we lose more than one slot today, so WORST case scenario, our predicament doesn't significantly change. It might just be a different towny getting cucked.

[podoboq]

I have a pretty good feeling jaqgork will fail tbh

yeah neat. i'd like a really high confidence that we're not about to cuck town again. and we dont even get that if jaqen fails.

If Jaqen

does

fail, and we do nothing, then shos can just request you again and Jaqen gets cucked alone. Also, shos can say not to Jaqen.

[podoboq]

Does anyone understand the fail column?

Gork isn't there because he didn't ask. Saying no doesn't put you there. ASKING AND FAILING OR ASKING AND GETTING TOLD NO DOES.

That's not how it worked for Gork and I on day two.

get kinky with gork

No, Just Sayin'

get kinky with it: Podo

No just sayin'

"I'm glad you're practicing safe sex, but this is pretty lame by our standards."

Kink Count

Getting Kinky

MangaofIllusion + DrippingGoofball

KuroiXHF + SnarkySnowman

Jaqen Hghar + Fresh

Asking For Consent:

All-InRachMarie

Failed:

dramonic, Gorkington, podoboq, shos

Deadline: (expired on 2017-03-07 14:34:07)

Activity Check: All-In prodded again, seeking replacement for Dramonic

[podoboq]

I have a pretty good feeling jaqgork will fail tbh

yeah neat. i'd like a really high confidence that we're not about to cuck town again. and we dont even get that if jaqen fails.

If Jaqen

does

fail, and we do nothing, then shos can just request you again and Jaqen gets cucked alone. Also, shos can say not to Jaqen.

Simplest plan imo. Less moving parts.

Doing nothing may be simpler, but it comes with a pretty significant risk.

[podoboq]

Well shit there's that. And I'll keep my mouth shut.

Podo, should they not break their couple up before the 24 hours, do we want to break us up?

I don't want to break us up. Keep in mind that if we do, we can't get back together. Rach can autopair with anyone, so less risk is incurred by her breaking up. Plus, if they break up, Kuroi/Snarky go into the fail pile too, so there are more positive outcomes for town. You and I are both relative town reads right now, and not on the list to get cucked any time soon.

[podoboq]

Can we hold off on the game criticism and talk about the things that we can control?

[podoboq]

fresh might be third scum btw.

Not getting into this right now. We need to stay focused on Jaqen, and this can wait.

Gork should be in the failed column. He definitely can't say no again, according to the rules. There is a possibility that Jaqen fails pairing with Gork (because of kinks), but I don't think taking that risk is very wise.

Instead, Rach can break up, then the failed column is Rach, Kuroi/Snark, shos. Shos can say no. Kuroi/Snark can't pair with Rach. Shos and Kuroi/Snark are inevitable. AFTER the request is made, Gork breaks his pair, moving him and Jaqen to the failed pile. Jaqen can't request Gork. Rach can deny Jaqen. Rach pairs with Gork, all's well.

If anything goes wrong, the outcome won't be WORSE than it stands right now. If we can get Jaqen paired with Kuroi/Snark, that's alright. It reduces their options.


So here's the order of operations I'm spelling out.

• Rach breaks up her pair before the moderator confirms Gork and Jaqen as a couple.
  
• Once failed players can attempt to pair again, shos requests to pair with Snarky (NOT the pair, just the player).
  
• Gorkington breaks his partnership with Jaqen AFTER shos places his request, but BEFORE it is confirmed.
  
• RachMarie pairs with Gorkington.

Opinions? We need to be fast about this.

[podoboq]

fresh might be third scum btw.

Not getting into this right now. We need to stay focused on Jaqen, and this can wait.

Gork should be in the failed column. He definitely can't say no again, according to the rules. There is a possibility that Jaqen fails pairing with Gork (because of kinks), but I don't think taking that risk is very wise.

Instead, Rach can break up, then the failed column is Rach, Kuroi/Snark, shos. Shos can say no. Kuroi/Snark can't pair with Rach. Shos and Kuroi/Snark are inevitable. AFTER the request is made, Gork breaks his pair, moving him and Jaqen to the failed pile. Jaqen can't request Gork. Rach can deny Jaqen. Rach pairs with Gork, all's well.

If anything goes wrong, the outcome won't be WORSE than it stands right now. If we can get Jaqen paired with Kuroi/Snark, that's alright. It reduces their options.


So here's the order of operations I'm spelling out.

• Rach breaks up her pair before the moderator confirms Gork and Jaqen as a couple.
  
• Once failed players can attempt to pair again, shos requests to pair with Snarky (NOT the pair, just the player).
  
• Gorkington breaks his partnership with Jaqen AFTER shos places his request, but BEFORE it is confirmed.
  
• RachMarie pairs with Gorkington.

Opinions? We need to be fast about this.

And that would leave me out?

Fuck that.

YOU AND SNARKY ARE THE SAME SLOT. PAIRING WITH SNARKY IS PAIRING WITH YOU

QUIT PLAYING DUMB

[podoboq]

get kinky wit Gork

"What the fuck kind of fucked up shit is he into? OH MY GOD."

Kink Count

Getting Kinky

podoboq + Fresh
FirebringingRachMarie + SnarkySnowKuroi

Asking For Consent:

Gorkington

Failed:

shos, Jaqen Hghar

Deadline: (expired on 2017-03-31 11:44:39)WOO

Activity Check: Seeking Firebringer replacement

[podoboq]

Screwed up a quote there because I'm mobile, but WOO.

So Gork requests shos. If they fail, shos can just request Gork after they fail. Shos has to remain active so he can say no to Jaqen. We got it.

[podoboq]

I'm honestly not getting how Gork NOT being in the failed column screws with your plan in any meaningful way. Like, you couldn't pair with him regardless.

If you're talking about how Rach's thing succeeded when it shouldn't have, then pairing with Snarky doesn't seem to REALLY help you. We lose town, they book you with Kuroi and Snarky, and we kill the three of you. I'm sure I don't see the entire picture, but that doesn't look like the worst case scenario to me.

Now I have my problems with unpredictable and inconsistent moderator decisions, but I think you're being hyperbolic.

[podoboq]

I vote fuck day five, let's speed murder Kuroi and Snarky.

Get Kinky Wit-It: Fresh

[podoboq]

So yeah, let's cuck Snarky.

Get kinky wit: Rach

He knows what this is. There's no way he's legitimately this completely unaware and simultaneously this completely scummy. Kuroi has been scum this entire game, and in the case that any of you happen to not be completely convinced, you at least must agree that it is now impossible for town to win this game if we are attached to the concrete block that is Kuroi/Snarky. If they are both town, we already lost.

If Rach comes back and says no in time, or the pairing between them and Kuroi fails, all that must happen is shos or Rach partner eachother, and today is a success.

If Rach doesn't say NO before 2:53pm tomorrow, Fresh MUST say no to me. Then, we wait for Rach to break apart, shos partners with Fresh, then Rach partners with me. It has to happen in this combination, in this order.

If shos partners ME, then Kuroi can attempt to partner with Fresh, and Fresh can't say no. I maintain the ability to say no. If shos attempts to partner before Rach breaks up, he is leading to the possibility that I am cucked instead, if Rach doesn't come back in time or is scum and refuses.

Order of operations:

• Fresh breaks with me before 2:53pm tomorrow
  
• Rach either says no or breaks her pairing after it's successful
  
• shos links with Fresh
  
• Rach links with me

Firebringer does literally nothing. Make that slot simpler by only allowing one of the two heads to make decisions. This plan is completely foolproof, and will result in Kuroi and Snarky dying 100% of the time if followed. Any action that does not follow exactly this plan to the letter is a complete scum claim and that player will automatically be cucked day 6.

[podoboq]

In the case that Snarky & Kuroi are not BOTH scum (likely Snarky is town), we can worry about finding the (hopefully) last scum tomorrow.

[podoboq]

I'll be on between 8:00am and 10:00am tomorrow. I'll likely be on between noon and however long it takes for me to be confident that Rach broke or Fresh said no. No matter what, I will not be away for more than 24 hours at a time so that I can always so no if someone attempts to pair with me.

[podoboq]

I was converted last night to the scum team.

Spoiler:

So, like, we have to take this at face value. There's literally no town incentive to fake claim scum, and if Firebringer is doing this, I'd like to call for a modkill and any more significant punishment possible since playing against you win condition is against site rules and there is basically no more blatant example of town playing against their win condition.

So Firebringer is almost definitely scum. Chances are, she isn't claiming this for no reason. He wants to divert the kill to himself for some reason. Options:
a) Kuroi and Snarky are ACTUALLY both scum, and Firebringer wants to divert the kill to himself to reduce the number of scum deaths.
b) Neither is scum, and he's super WIFOMing.
c) Some utter nonsense I haven't considered.

Every time I think this game has reached a new low in utter nonsense, it dips lower. What is mafia? WHY AM I HERE?!

Whatever game Firebringer is playing, I don't think it behooves us to play it. Can we please just kill Kuroi/Snarky and proceed with whatever the fuck just happened on day 7?

[podoboq]

we were still discussing things

No we aren't. Kuroi and Snarky die today. There's no more discussion that needs to be had. They're cornered scum, we're ending their bullshit, then we'll deal with the remaining bullshit tomorrow.

The only step that remains is for Rach to pair with Shos, badabing badaboom, Day Seven accomplished.

[podoboq]

Order of operations:

• Fresh breaks with me before 2:53pm tomorrow
  
• Rach either says no or breaks her pairing after it's successful
  
• shos links with Fresh
  
• Rach links with me

NONE OF THIS NEEDS TO HAPPEN ANYMORE BECAUSE RACH CAME IN AND DENIED KUROI

MISSION ACCOMPLISHED

[podoboq]

Well, Kuroi did not know that, Podo.

1) Didn't know what?
2) Yes he did. He's scum. He's been playing dumb for weeks.
3) It doesn't matter whether or not he knows anything. He can't request anyone anymore, and he's dead.

[podoboq]

yep

so you sticking with fresh?

should I go ahead and request shos then? and lets leave the snowwoman and kuroi to their fate.

yes yes yes

[podoboq]

I was converted last night to the scum team.

Can we not justify this player with any consideration? Please and thank you.

Firebringer is scum. If Firebringer wants us to switch from our plan, it does not behoove us to do it. If Firebringer didn't want us to switch from our plan, he could have just done nothing and it would have continued to happen. There is no reason to listen to anything he's saying. We're done here.

[podoboq]

If we fuck things up for today we can lose someone else and kuroi/snarky will not go down as planned

We need to stick with the plan peeps.

This is hard enough to coordinate without screwing things over.

I love you. You are an oasis of sanity in the hellish desert of stupid that is this game.