Mini 1894: DBZ Abridged Mafia - Arrival To Namek (Game Over)


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Post Post #14 (isolation #0) » Tue Mar 21, 2017 7:22 am

Post by Not Chara »

In post 13, Almost50 wrote:Who? Me? Why would I bully the player with the arguably cutest avatar on site?
i beg to differ! ;>

VOTE: Almost
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Post Post #16 (isolation #1) » Tue Mar 21, 2017 7:33 am

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and, now i know the dragon's name is senron. cool.
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Post Post #17 (isolation #2) » Tue Mar 21, 2017 7:34 am

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oh and Kuroi: very interesting mechanic with the Dragonballs. i look forward to sabotaging all attempts to gather seven of them.
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Post Post #20 (isolation #3) » Tue Mar 21, 2017 7:55 am

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weeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

Almost: i don't know! and after i joined to play with you... it brings a tear to my eye.
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Post Post #22 (isolation #4) » Tue Mar 21, 2017 7:59 am

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god, fight? i've fought with Almost a single time and it's not something i'd ever like to do again. so he'd better be town!
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Post Post #28 (isolation #5) » Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:18 am

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Almost: hahaha. i thought about asking to hydra, but we were slow on the draw there.
and i agree with you. i'd say collecting the dragonballs isn't worth it, keeping them separate is best.

pedit: Vifam, check the rules again. there's only one wish to be made, barring special wishes allowed by one's role.
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Post Post #32 (isolation #6) » Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:24 am

Post by Not Chara »

VOTE: Majiffy
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Post Post #78 (isolation #7) » Tue Mar 21, 2017 6:14 pm

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while i'm sure there are town players that are able to make extremely helpful wishes, i'm just as sure there are scum with devasting wishes. the public wish available is not useful for scum, but by the rules scum have reason to gather the dragonballs.

it's also a lot easier for scum to gather them for a few reasons. so, i think keeping them safe is just a better idea. i dont want dragonball gathering to skew lynch/vig decisions for town when we should just be trying to kill scum. let scum run around for them instead.

granted, near to lylo is probably only when i'd actually start worrying about it.
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Post Post #245 (isolation #8) » Thu Mar 23, 2017 4:03 am

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early assessment of Almost here suggests he's leaning town. i like Desperado's assessment of that one Almost post coming from town (meaning i like Desperado), but Almost is a self-aware scum and is perfectly capable of forming such a thought. he remembers things and uses them, his alignment has little to do with it. that would be why Almost is only lean town. i certainly don't want him lynched, however. i haven't seen anything from him i don't like yet.

Imperium: i'd like to know about your push. you mention you have one, but haven't discussed me or spoken to me beyond the vote and then mentioning you have the push.

i find mechanics discussion largely NAI. in games with nonstandard public mechanics, there are always going to be disagreements and sifting through them for alignment information is usually fruitless and just leads to pointless fights. better to examine how players react to the disagreements and deal with them.
In post 121, Socrates wrote:I find annoying that people think about the mechanics only in terms of how they can be used directly, not in terms of how they can be a vector for scumhunting. Scum can do a lot, but they can do very little without leaving a paper trail if we approach it correctly. I will have more to say on this day 2.
right now, i would say Socrates looks town.
i also want to say that giving my thoughts on how i think the dragonball mechanic will work out doesn't mean i won't be using it for scumhunting!
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Post Post #246 (isolation #9) » Thu Mar 23, 2017 4:06 am

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Alisae's relatively quick new decisions based on the posting from other players is something i've seen from town Alisae.
Tywin: have you seen town Alisae? what you described as scum just looks like the question-heavy town Alisae i've seen before. what's the difference?

: acknowledges bias but doesn't make an effort to work around it, and wants to policy on page 6? i don't see an actual scumread here.
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Post Post #247 (isolation #10) » Thu Mar 23, 2017 4:15 am

Post by Not Chara »

alright, scratch what i said earlier.
i'm townreading the intent of , but i dislike that Socrates's push on me so far is based on this tell that they've said twice isn't complete because i haven't scumread anyone for the dragonballs, just given my opinion.
for one, zefiend has come to exactly the same conclusion, and Socrates hasn't mentioned it. they've caught scum this way before, but 2/3 players with the same opinion haven't even been spoken to. if there was real concern, why isn't the same care being taken? Socrates only mentions Almost after he brings up this exact problem.
and reading 121 again, there's the main issue. Almost is fine because Socrate's agrees that Almost's reasoning is towny. therefore, the mechanics tell isn't that important. zefiend gets a side-eye for stalling in , but no mention of the mechanics tell. the reply to Almost sounds like a retroactive excuse.
so in the end it just looks like my post caught Socrates's attention as something they could push safely, instead of the tell being the cause.
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Post Post #248 (isolation #11) » Thu Mar 23, 2017 4:18 am

Post by Not Chara »

Alisae: do you still think Tywin is scum?
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Post Post #251 (isolation #12) » Thu Mar 23, 2017 4:35 am

Post by Not Chara »

Kuroi:
i like this format. having the wagons with the most votes at the top is ideal, along with removing the players from the count that aren't being voted at all. it's very readable. :>
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Post Post #253 (isolation #13) » Thu Mar 23, 2017 4:52 am

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why are Imperium and Socrates town?
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Post Post #365 (isolation #14) » Fri Mar 24, 2017 6:41 am

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Tywin, while you're here: i'm curious, where have you seen my scum meta to know to make that judgement? my memory is bad, so i might simply be forgetting. was it Kuroi's WWE game?
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Post Post #484 (isolation #15) » Sat Mar 25, 2017 6:34 am

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In post 470, Imperium wrote:Why does something have to be complete for a push early game?
i'm still reading up, but i want to note this and answer it for good.

it doesn't. Socrates voting me for that tell is valid early game, even if incomplete. what's putting up alarm bells for me is what i perceived as Socrates not committing to that tell with the other players who had exhibited it. it's possible that he did feel that way too, but i happened to ping him more because of my direct response.

either Socrates is scum who's gathered a following, or they're not and scum are the ones following along. i really doubt there are more than 1 or 2 scum either voting me or interested in doing so publicly right now.

i've seen a few players now cite Socrates's 'case' as a reason for voting, but there isn't a case. Socrates themself could get a pass as its a personal tell that's worked for them before, but for everyone else that isn't true. they liked the case. what's the case? that i had an opinion about playing cautiously with the dragonballs. that's all.

thinking about it like this, i'm more inclined to entertain that Socrates as town, and there's scum within the followers. because Socrates's case isn't a case you can actually cite and follow, it's a personal tell about mechanics. do those who like the case also SR Almost and zefiend?

Imperium: i wanted to address you specifically on this due to what you said earlier. that town are more like to go against the grain and protest for their opinion on mechanics, but scum just like to say something functionally correct in lieu of scum hunting.
i can only assume this means you agree with me that my suggested approach (not just mine, zefiend's approach is the best iteration in my opinion) is the best one. yet i received flack for this opinion from players who wanted to try and win for town with the help of the dragonballs.

put together, this is at odds with your behaviour, if you're actually scumreading me based on Socrates's case.

the above about Socrates should hopefully also explain my issues with them and why i thought and still think they could be scum.

i have a lot of strong reads right now and it's a little unusual. nearly caught up, there weren't too many pages.
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Post Post #485 (isolation #16) » Sat Mar 25, 2017 6:38 am

Post by Not Chara »

if Imperium is scum, Clumsy is almost certainly town.
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Post Post #487 (isolation #17) » Sat Mar 25, 2017 6:43 am

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i wasn't sure if you were, which is exactly why i said that. i outlined your feelings on scum and town re: mechanics discussions because your opinion of me appears opposite to your feelings on thay matter.
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Post Post #488 (isolation #18) » Sat Mar 25, 2017 6:44 am

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i'm aware you've said other things regarding your SR; i'm getting to it.
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Post Post #494 (isolation #19) » Sat Mar 25, 2017 6:54 am

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i suggested playing it safe, that does not mean it was a'safe' suggestion.
now i say this, keeping in mind that at the time i didn't expect to receive any flack for a mechanics opinion advocating caution.

but evidently, i did. what exactly would be an unsafe thing to argue? that we should work together to gather the balls and give them to a townread?
if suggesting that we avoid a central mechanic to this game, including that i would actively work against any players (including town ones) attempting to group the balls, is a safe suggestion that scum would go for to look towny, then what isn't a safe suggestion regarding rhe dragonballs?

pedit: alright, you have more posts. i'll get my laptop.
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Post Post #496 (isolation #20) » Sat Mar 25, 2017 7:03 am

Post by Not Chara »

In post 491, Imperium wrote:
In post 421, Imperium wrote:
In post 246, Not Chara wrote:early assessment of Almost here suggests he's leaning town. i like Desperado's assessment of that one Almost post coming from town (meaning i like Desperado), but Almost is a self-aware scum and is perfectly capable of forming such a thought. he remembers things and uses them, his alignment has little to do with it. that would be why Almost is only lean town. i certainly don't want him lynched, however. i haven't seen anything from him i don't like yet.
Why do you like desperado for liking almost's post as coming from town and ignoring that we had already discussed liking almost's approach there?

I want this question answered as your going through things. This one matters more to me than the ball stuff, which this head cares little about.
i liked the way Desperado explained his thought process surrounding the read after being questioned, it looked very genuine to me. simply thinking Almost is town for that posting isn't really enough for me. unless i missed it somewhere, you didn't really go in depth about it. essentially, Desperado caught my attention there while i just forgot that you had that opinion. i happened to mention Desperado there because i was reminded of the townread while talking about Almost.

pedit: i don't see a point arguing about that further then, we're not going to agree and if you believe this then i don't have a problem with that stance.
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Post Post #498 (isolation #21) » Sat Mar 25, 2017 7:09 am

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In post 494, Imperium wrote:Tells in and of themselves do not mean the person thinks oh everyone who does this one thing is definite scum. They do not exist in a vacuum. If someone commits one tell you find scummy, and they haven't done anything else you find town, pushing them for it is what mafia is all about. Selective scumhunting exists, sure, but I don't see it playing out in this case.

Also and not related here, asking questions is not throwing shade, it's trying to figure out the game.
you may have noticed in my first post today, but i am considering that to Socrates, my position and zefiend/Almost's were different. at the time when i scumread Socrates for that point, i still felt that calling that one tell a 'case' for other players to sheep was going overboard when other players had expressed the same opinions.
In post 490, Imperium wrote:
In post 486, Not Chara wrote:if Imperium is scum, Clumsy is almost certainly town.

Any statement that begins with if imperium is scum will lead to a flawed conclusion.
was there any point in saying this? it isn't as though it will matter if you end up flipping town.
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Post Post #499 (isolation #22) » Sat Mar 25, 2017 7:09 am

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and you aren't scumreading Clumsy.
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Post Post #501 (isolation #23) » Sat Mar 25, 2017 7:13 am

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In post 461, Tywin Lannister wrote:Also, I'll repeat: anyone with a reason not to vote clumsy, go ahead and tell me why. Otherwise, why aren't you also SRing the slot? If they flip scum, any fence sitter should be the subsequent lynches, and yes, I'm playing pre-flip associations. If you take a hard town stance on them, at least I know you weren't playing both sides in hopes of derailing the lynch but leaving open the bus possibility if necessary.
the games only just started. between you and ABR i'm getting those 'this wagon is the wagon town should be on and you're scum for trying to go against the decision!' vibes that i get from awful games where players aren't allowed to have opinions.
and yes, that was me being dramatic. but honestly, why do you expect players to have a hard-town stance or be scumreading Clumsy Phoenix? maybe i'm leaning town and have other players i'm more interested in lynching. i understand why your scumread is so strong, and honestly i got the same vibes at first, but really.
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Post Post #505 (isolation #24) » Sat Mar 25, 2017 7:19 am

Post by Not Chara »

In post 501, Imperium wrote:So here's the thing and why I care about the desperado thing is because we did give a town read for his approach to typing. Typing misunderstood what we meant, and I explained that we townread the way almost scumhunted typing, but did not agree with the conclusion.
i know this means Tywin, not typing.
Now nacho had expressed early suspicion on desperado and when I think about how desperado!scum might navigate the game against nacho (my other head), I think he would try to make it look like they were on a similar wavelength early. I could see him pointing out a read we already gave, understanding what looked town about it, and sharing that. Now he could also just be town on the same wavelength, sure, but I found it interesting that you liked desperado's take while ignoring that the first person to even mention that list looking like town was us.
i've just explained it. the
conclusion
of liking Almost's handling of Tywin has nothing to do with it. i liked the way Desperado explained himself regarding it. it certainly doesn't look like scum jumping on a read to try and buddy you, if that's what you're implying.
i had to go ISO you and look for Almost to find the opinion you were talking about. you didn't elaborate, you just had an opinion. i'm supposed to remember that? Desperado made a show of it in his initial post on the matter and then had to defend the opinion when questioned. it's not really a mental leap to figure out why he left an impression and you did not.
seeing Desperado's thoughts outlined as they were = townread. thinking Almost is town for the Tywin thing =/= townread. is that better?
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Post Post #508 (isolation #25) » Sat Mar 25, 2017 7:28 am

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In post 503, Imperium wrote:And no we're not scumreading clumsy, and yes even we flip that will be evident that we're town, but if you're viewing reads today with that premise in mind and how it affects the alignments of other players, you'll be wrong.
well, i wasn't. i don't exactly have a hydra PT to throw thoughts into. they go here so i can see them later. if you flip scum i'll refer back. if you don't then you really have nothing to worry about.
i guess your point here was to make a general statement about not forming reads through pre-flip associations. still, the point was predicated on you being scum. until i know if you are or not, it's meaningless.

pedit: yes, that's the post in particular. i think Desperado did say more on the subject, but it gets my point across.
and sure, maybe he could fake it. still, i'm not about to second-guess myself on everything because i think scum could fake things. i'm townreading Desp for other reasons but that Almost thing is certainly one of them. the way it was expressed just looks town. i'm of the opinion that scum and town look at 'towny' posts differently, but i really don't feel like launching into a meta discussion right now to no useful end.
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Post Post #512 (isolation #26) » Sat Mar 25, 2017 7:38 am

Post by Not Chara »

i know nothing about this Desperado/nacho connection. but, before i waste my time because i misunderstood: did Desperado ping you, or did i? i can't tell what your Desperado read is right now.

i dislike that you keep going back to how i didn't townread you for the same thing. so what? if you understand where i'm coming from, why are we still talking about this? do you want me to stop townreading Desperado, or do you want me to townread you for the same reason as him, even though i've explained why you're different?

if you're discussing this with me idly simply because you believe it's fruitful, i have to tell you that there's only so many times we can beat this dead horse. there's a whole game to discuss, i'd be happy to do so.

pedit: well, that really took the wind out of my sails considering what i just finished typing. i have entirely too much to say about Imperium right now. i like their approach to this game and i'm seeing a lot of sophisticated thought processes, and someone who isn't likely to get caught in a tunnel. at the same time, a lot of the things they do or say ping me. i don't like to listen to that voice when it's conflicted like it is now, so i'll just see where things go from here.

i don't have much of an opinion on Vifam right now. let me look at him.
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Post Post #513 (isolation #27) » Sat Mar 25, 2017 7:39 am

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to add to the above because i forgot to say what i wanted: what bothered me about Imperium has been resolved enough when i take their thought process and their goal being reading me into account. that should be the takeaway.
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Post Post #514 (isolation #28) » Sat Mar 25, 2017 7:43 am

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on Vifam: so far, i wouldn't vote there. what bothers you about him? i've played with Vifam a few times and this lack of drive is what i've come to associate with town Vifam.
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Post Post #515 (isolation #29) » Sat Mar 25, 2017 7:49 am

Post by Not Chara »

i don't want Almost lynched and i don't see a reason to vote ABR. i'd much prefer more players on Majiffy. i want to see Tywin respond to Desperado's before i do anything else on that front.
Phoenix's is what's hurt my townread on the slot the most. not one, but both heads agree with this tell? it's nowhere near a universal tell, and coming from anyone from Socrates is cause enough for me to be suspicious. i'd actually thought there were more players agreeing with this case, but now that i'm looking i think i was wrong.
the only one left is Alisae, who manages to be a frustrating player for me to read whenever i've tried to.
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Post Post #578 (isolation #30) » Sun Mar 26, 2017 8:25 am

Post by Not Chara »

do you have anything to say about your vote sheeping Socrates?
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Post Post #583 (isolation #31) » Sun Mar 26, 2017 10:52 am

Post by Not Chara »

sorry Desperado, i meant Clumsy's vote on me. i'm not sure how i missed that my post could be interpreted as being directed towards you.
to re-iterate: Clumsy, i've addressed what i think of your vote already. do you have anything to say in return?

and as for Tywin's answer about Alisae: unfortunately, i've also noticed this. which is why Alisae is null right now.
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Post Post #585 (isolation #32) » Sun Mar 26, 2017 11:03 am

Post by Not Chara »

not her or him, Tywin. check my sig.

and there were some SRs on me before. not that many, you're right. mainly i'm concerned about Clumsy at this point.
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Post Post #588 (isolation #33) » Sun Mar 26, 2017 11:45 am

Post by Not Chara »

Vifam, i never did ask. were you actually scumreading me in Fire Emblem, thinking i was the other team?
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Post Post #599 (isolation #34) » Mon Mar 27, 2017 1:48 am

Post by Not Chara »

i'm going to reread Tywin with that in mind.

but Majiffy, what i actually want from you is an opinion on your wagon. reads on the players on it.

Vifam: is... leantown. who are you voting, Vifam? i'd rather Almost wasn't lynched today.
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Post Post #650 (isolation #35) » Mon Mar 27, 2017 7:54 am

Post by Not Chara »

i have to say, i don't find Majiffy's case very scummy. if anything, it's improved my read on him.
more later.
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Post Post #676 (isolation #36) » Mon Mar 27, 2017 11:30 am

Post by Not Chara »

i've been putting off properly wading through the argument between Tywin and Majiffy... i suppose i have to give it attention at some point.
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Post Post #689 (isolation #37) » Mon Mar 27, 2017 12:10 pm

Post by Not Chara »

i don't think Tywin said they would settle for TvT. they said if there are players who don't think it's TvT (of which there seems to be a few), they need to make a decision.

Tywin, i'm finding your apparent annoyance with Majiffy a little difficult to swallow. i can see you're going for it but... i don't get the sense you find him all that frustrating. especially if he's giving you so much ammo to call him scum. personally, if i believed what you did i'd be thrilled.
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Post Post #784 (isolation #38) » Tue Mar 28, 2017 7:54 am

Post by Not Chara »

VOTE: Clumsy
Tywin vs. Majiffy made me like Majiffy more Tywin less, but i really can't make up my mind. trying to go through the back and forth is exhausting. i'll be doing that now but, Clumsy is a better wagon. besides disliking , neither of those two have addressed their vote on me or where it came from.

i'm townreading Desperado. why's he scum?

and Almost, i really can't agree with you there. i don't think it's actually possible to 'slip a vote in when nobody's looking'. players are always looking. votecounts are posted regularly.
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Post Post #789 (isolation #39) » Tue Mar 28, 2017 7:58 am

Post by Not Chara »

In post 787, Albert B. Rampage wrote:
In post 785, Not Chara wrote:Tywin vs. Majiffy made me like Majiffy more Tywin less, but i really can't make up my mind. trying to go through the back and forth is exhausting.
Because they are both town.
it's possible. either way i'm uncomfortable making my mind up about it.

Majiffy: it's not an RVS wagon. at least, my reasons aren't RVS and i don't think anyone's ever were.
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Post Post #792 (isolation #40) » Tue Mar 28, 2017 8:02 am

Post by Not Chara »

in my experience, unless i get a sense that Tywin is purposely trying to fake it, asserting that falsehoods are true over and over isn't a scum trait. i've been trying to see if his frustration could stem from being scum and being 'right' but having no one listen to him anyway, or if that's town frustration. but i don't think 'lying' in this case is particularly scummy. at least not from Tywin, based on his scumplay in our last game. if that doesn't make sense it's because this is all nebulous and difficult to make a good decision on right now.

Maria: hm. so you can't point me to anything? i have to go see who else is on the Desperado wagon.
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Post Post #795 (isolation #41) » Tue Mar 28, 2017 8:35 am

Post by Not Chara »

town lie all the time, especially about obvious things. usually because they think they're telling the truth.
and you can play a game as scum without lying. if mafia was as simple as lynching liars it wouldn't be very hard.

pedit: do i have to quote? i voted Clumsy Phoenix on this page and mentioned why. :>
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Post Post #799 (isolation #42) » Tue Mar 28, 2017 8:45 am

Post by Not Chara »

Maria: it's legit, i'd like to lynch Clumsy.

Majiffy: i don't know what else to tell you. my read on Tywin did get worse after your exchange. and that's how people are. you can hunt that way and i won't begrudge you it but none of what you've listed is something i associate with scum over town. especially not things like projecting.
i mean, i've been tunneled by town where debating logically did nothing, and where when i pointed out how they weren't making sense, or outright contradicting themselves, it wouldn't help.

when i saw Tywin scum everything he said made sense and was
correct
... it was just off and in context you could see the scum motivation in his reads and how he chose to present them. it's pointless for me to keep examining your fight right now so i won't do it anymore. i'll try and figure you both out in other scenarios. i want to look at other players.
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Post Post #817 (isolation #43) » Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:29 am

Post by Not Chara »

is me.

and Almost: what do you see that makes you think Maria did this out of scum motivation, as opposed to it being a genuine joke? she's back on Desperado now.
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Post Post #825 (isolation #44) » Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:38 am

Post by Not Chara »

Maria, which part of that are you referring to? Clumsy? Clumsy did give a reason, they cited Socrates's case. i pointed out why that didn't make sense and why it was scummy, and have no received a response yet.
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Post Post #827 (isolation #45) » Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:41 am

Post by Not Chara »

Almost: unfortunately it isn't, unless you have more to tell me about Maria. you said her naked joke vote was enough to bring her from null to an SR... what does that have to do with her meta? you can spoiler your response if you want, but i really would like to see it.
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Post Post #833 (isolation #46) » Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:51 am

Post by Not Chara »

this is just a guess, but i think Majiffy might be scumreading him.
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Post Post #843 (isolation #47) » Tue Mar 28, 2017 10:01 am

Post by Not Chara »

hahahaha.
and is correct.
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Post Post #852 (isolation #48) » Tue Mar 28, 2017 10:13 am

Post by Not Chara »

Maria: sure, but... why didn't you like his vote on you? you said it was because he was wrong about your meta.
pedit: can you say why then? why didn't you say this when i asked you earlier?
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Post Post #934 (isolation #49) » Wed Mar 29, 2017 8:07 am

Post by Not Chara »

Clumsy, could you please eventually get to answering me about your initial vote on me? the one where you said both of your heads liked Socrates case. i want to know what about it you liked, why you agreed with the tell, etc.
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Post Post #1052 (isolation #50) » Thu Mar 30, 2017 8:04 am

Post by Not Chara »

obviously i don't have any objections to this wagon.

Socrates, what's your read on zefiend right now? and one thing: to . what made you realize that ABR should be concerned about the hammer regardless? your 1035 seems to imply that it's odd for ABR to be concerned.
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Post Post #1053 (isolation #51) » Thu Mar 30, 2017 8:05 am

Post by Not Chara »

is anyone still scumreading Tywin?
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Post Post #1056 (isolation #52) » Thu Mar 30, 2017 8:56 am

Post by Not Chara »

zefiend is one of the other slots i like the least in this game. i dislike . two times calling Majiffy's case bullshit but it's never addressed once. surely if other players are listening to Majiffy, and Tywin is getting frustrated, zefiend would be able to say something against this awful case of Majiffy's. and if Tywin is town, which i believe there's a good chance of, it looks like a buddying stance on the whole affair.
has a lot of examination of other slots, but none of them are ones he's pushing. he mentions being pinged by Desperado but apparently there are bigger fish to fry. like Majiffy. but despite this scumread and push on Majiffy there's very little of substance regarding zefiend's read on the slot.
i'll have more to say when we've seen flips, but for now this is enough.
and unlike most slots in the game, i haven't found any compelling reason to actually townread zefiend. i question his inclusion in both Alisae's and Almost's townreads.
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Post Post #1143 (isolation #53) » Fri Mar 31, 2017 1:15 am

Post by Not Chara »

i could lynch any of Clumsy, Maria, zefiend, and Alisae.
who is townreading these players and why?
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Post Post #1150 (isolation #54) » Fri Mar 31, 2017 6:51 am

Post by Not Chara »

In post 1147, Desperado wrote:
In post 1144, Not Chara wrote:i could lynch any of Clumsy, Maria, zefiend, and Alisae.
who is townreading these players and why?
zefs response to me calling out his "pings" seemed town even if I had to prod him to get those thoughts
what about it was town? like, why did it appear genuine instead of something fakeable?
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Post Post #1158 (isolation #55) » Fri Mar 31, 2017 7:56 am

Post by Not Chara »

zefiend: you realize i was the first player to give a reason to scumread Majiffy, right? i was voting him for some minor RVS pings, then pointed out that he thought he might be biased about Almost but was interested in scumreading/policying the slot early on.

i'm not saying you didn't also make a point, i'm just making that clear.
i also don't think 'shading you for lack of input' is a fair assessment when what i was questioning was the lack of depth to what appeared to be a long-held scumread.
and part of your defense of that is that you were one of the few players to take a hard stance on Majiffy vs. Tywin. that had nothing to do with what i was saying, you took a stance but didn't talk about your thought process in the least. (which you did in that other reads post concerning some townreads and Desperado)

does it matter that you handled the situation 'better' than other players?

Tywin: i did read your argument with Majiffy. that i had difficult parsing the back and forth doesn't mean i was lazy about it.

that said, this issue with Maria's read progression is one of a few contradictions i've seen from her, and why i don't like the slot. so i like zefiend's analysis here.
normally i don't scumread contradictions, being a contrary town player myself, but often they make sense when explained. so far, Maria's explanations have not convinced me.
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Post Post #1166 (isolation #56) » Fri Mar 31, 2017 9:28 am

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Tywin, i know you're pissed off about this, but calm down. i read the damn exchange. my read on Majiffy changed because of it and because there are players i'm SRing more now, he was a weaker early-game SR.

i didn't have anything else to say about the exchange because it was difficult to follow for me. i don't know what else i can say. so i gut-read from it and then moved on to exchanges that would actually allow me to form some reads i can rely on.

i'm not 'owning an SR'. i'm refuting zefiend's point that he was the first player to say something concrete about Majiffy. that's really it.

as for arguments about wagons receiving opposition vs. non-opposition: not something i look at day 1. i've been town and wagoned for a while in games. my pushers would always cite 'lack of opposition' as a reason for me to be scum, because scum were saving me for lategame or thinking there were better targets. or just defending me.
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Post Post #1167 (isolation #57) » Fri Mar 31, 2017 9:30 am

Post by Not Chara »

In post 1165, Tywin Lannister wrote:I'd Maria flips scum, I'll gladly follow next seeing as I was so wrong
we don't lynch people for being wrong. if you're town, stop suggesting to take a dive for no reason.
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Post Post #1326 (isolation #58) » Sat Apr 01, 2017 7:13 am

Post by Not Chara »

In post 1319, Imperium wrote:Not Chara - Are you leaning town on Vifam still? Can you talk about that read?
i've been in a few games with Vifam. for now, this reminds me of his towngame.
functionally, the read isn't very strong. essentially he's off my radar for not doing anything that's bothered me. i can go ISO him later if you're looking for substance for your read, it's possible i've just forgotten about something.

and: Imperium going apeshit over Desperado's concerns probably means Imperium is town.

busy day today.
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Post Post #1330 (isolation #59) » Sat Apr 01, 2017 7:23 am

Post by Not Chara »

homesite as in which site you were on before mafiascum. i think it was EM?
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Post Post #1372 (isolation #60) » Sat Apr 01, 2017 9:06 am

Post by Not Chara »

Tywin: i'll ISO Majiffy today. please don't say i was the first player to SR Majiffy after chewing me out for claiming such earlier, however. ;>

but about : curb your assumptions there, Imperium! you weren't even sure if she'd won, and you drew conclusions from it. tsk tsk. that's nearly as bad as my calling Clumsy town if you flip scum.
(the above is said in jest, of course.)
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Post Post #1418 (isolation #61) » Sat Apr 01, 2017 12:53 pm

Post by Not Chara »

time for a double ISO of Tywin and Majiffy. i'll be back in four hours.
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Post Post #1420 (isolation #62) » Sat Apr 01, 2017 1:00 pm

Post by Not Chara »

In post 1420, Majiffy wrote:Tywin is this the first game of mafia you've ever played? Real question

Follow up question: Are you reading any of my posts or just like one or two words and then extrapolating what you THINK those posts said?
stop making posts like this.

i can't remember. are you currently scumreading Tywin? if you are, this behaviour sucks. v
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Post Post #1421 (isolation #63) » Sat Apr 01, 2017 1:02 pm

Post by Not Chara »

Tywin: about . at the time i made it, i'd missed your apology about earlier. we're cool.
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Post Post #1467 (isolation #64) » Sun Apr 02, 2017 12:58 pm

Post by Not Chara »

if we're voting Maria over Clumsy, i want hammer.
i didn't get a chance to ISO Tywin and Majiffy. sorry.
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Post Post #1468 (isolation #65) » Sun Apr 02, 2017 12:58 pm

Post by Not Chara »

i'll still do it, just not tonight.
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Post Post #1470 (isolation #66) » Sun Apr 02, 2017 1:02 pm

Post by Not Chara »

zefiend: why are you so pissed when your SR Maria will very likely be the lynch?
hammer is mine.
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Post Post #1476 (isolation #67) » Sun Apr 02, 2017 2:13 pm

Post by Not Chara »

pretty sure you just hammered, Majiffy. thanks for listening to my request to not do that one thing.
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Post Post #1478 (isolation #68) » Sun Apr 02, 2017 2:14 pm

Post by Not Chara »

yes, i just checked that too. thanks.

sorry Majiffy. :< my mistake.
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Post Post #1480 (isolation #69) » Sun Apr 02, 2017 2:16 pm

Post by Not Chara »

why do you think?
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Post Post #1482 (isolation #70) » Sun Apr 02, 2017 2:17 pm

Post by Not Chara »

i can't tell if you're joking or if you actually don't know why i want to hammer.
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Post Post #1488 (isolation #71) » Sun Apr 02, 2017 2:33 pm

Post by Not Chara »

lovely. it's a good thing i don't actually think Maria has a dragonball.
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Post Post #1489 (isolation #72) » Sun Apr 02, 2017 2:33 pm

Post by Not Chara »

i was trying to delay the hammer so Maria could post.
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Post Post #1490 (isolation #73) » Sun Apr 02, 2017 2:34 pm

Post by Not Chara »

...also if i was wrong and she
did
have a dragonball, i did want it.
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Post Post #1493 (isolation #74) » Sun Apr 02, 2017 2:34 pm

Post by Not Chara »

Maria were you here this whole time? are you scum?
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Post Post #1502 (isolation #75) » Sun Apr 02, 2017 2:47 pm

Post by Not Chara »

confusion might stem from Kuroi's last vc. it didn't count Imperium's vote.

fairly sure that actually was lynch.

Clumsy, why the kneejerk hammer when you'd rather Tywin here?
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Post Post #1574 (isolation #76) » Wed Apr 05, 2017 8:20 am

Post by Not Chara »

hello everyone, busy day today.
i'll nap then be back in thread after that.

i don't know how i feel about massclaim, but let's see Socrates's argument.
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Post Post #1605 (isolation #77) » Wed Apr 05, 2017 3:22 pm

Post by Not Chara »

i'm awake now, just skimmed up.

there's no need for the vigilante to claim here. like Tywin said, they'll just be killed the next night. Socrates being outed, if town, already protects the vigilante enough.
i'm stuck between that and the suspiciousness of Socrates's claim being enough to protect them from being killed, meaning the vigilante
should
claim to be protected. i don't know. i'm not happy with the claim.

i spent the night ISOing Majiffy and Tywin. suppose it doesn't really matter now. there's just no way Tywin is scum here.
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Post Post #1606 (isolation #78) » Wed Apr 05, 2017 3:23 pm

Post by Not Chara »

Socrates, i fail to see any correlation between your "Thing I Can Do" post and your doctor place. the post that you said outed yourself so badly looks like something related to the dragonballs, not to being a doctor.
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Post Post #1607 (isolation #79) » Wed Apr 05, 2017 3:23 pm

Post by Not Chara »

*doctor claim.
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Post Post #1612 (isolation #80) » Wed Apr 05, 2017 3:34 pm

Post by Not Chara »

In post 1608, Socrates wrote:Oh yes, yes, yes, I am aggressively throwing myself on the chopping block here.

But I am a very self-sacrifice oriented player, and if I can guarentee the Vig's safety tonight, and then he gets to shoot again tomorrow, we ensure 4 pro-town kills in two days and will be down to endgame anyway. A worthwhile use of my role in my view. (I also suck at playing doc.)
and if the scumteam has a roleblocker?
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Post Post #1614 (isolation #81) » Wed Apr 05, 2017 3:39 pm

Post by Not Chara »

i've been thinking about Clumsy's hammer. i'm not sure if the scum would snipe the hammer like that, in a way that really makes it seem that they did it without thinking. there's nothing to prompt the scum to be so nervous around the hammer when i said i would take it. and they would know Maria is town and thus probably not lying about her claim not to have a dragonball.
i'm considering that if could have been done precisely to look genuine, but it was so sudden and in direct response to my asking for the hammer that i'm thinking that unlikely. not to mention it doesn't fit at all with the scum narrative of that hydra being cautious.
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Post Post #1616 (isolation #82) » Wed Apr 05, 2017 3:40 pm

Post by Not Chara »

Socrates: did you say who you protected night 1?
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Post Post #1620 (isolation #83) » Wed Apr 05, 2017 3:47 pm

Post by Not Chara »

In post 1617, Socrates wrote:Vigi should only claim if we go for the full massclaim.

If we don't do the full massclaim, then the vigi should absolutely not claim.
i don't understand this.

why did you claim before even making sure the town wanted to massclaim? your claim only makes sense to protect the vig, even in a misguided sense. now you're saying the vig should only claim if we all agree.

that isn't to mention that in a massclaim situation, the vig should absolutely claim VT. there are surely more and obfuscating their identity would just be a better idea.
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Post Post #1621 (isolation #84) » Wed Apr 05, 2017 3:48 pm

Post by Not Chara »

Socrates, i won't ask why you chose Albert because it's frankly obvious that he was a major townread.
can you go into more detail as to why that is?
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Post Post #1623 (isolation #85) » Wed Apr 05, 2017 3:50 pm

Post by Not Chara »

In post 1615, Socrates wrote:
In post 1593, Clumsy Phoenix wrote:Also Socrates, while you're writing up your argument for a mass claim (which I want to see despite us having claimed), what is your read on our slot?
I am currently viewing you with an intense, stress inducing paranoia.

What you did is
exactly
what I would have theoretically advised you to do if you are scum, but it's also
exactly
the kind of thing I like doing myself as a townie.

I forgot to mention this as I was claiming: The Six Star dragon ball mysteriously arrived in my mail this morning.
might as well answer this too.
are you referring to asking for a read on one's slot, or is it something else you're talking about?
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Post Post #1626 (isolation #86) » Wed Apr 05, 2017 3:55 pm

Post by Not Chara »

the argument is scum are locked into their narratives early-game, and have to be careful taking actions that would disagree with it.
it's
something
, but it's not worth giving scum a roadmap of kills.

yes, we can use how the scum react to the massclaim as a vector for scumclaiming, as Socrates said... but i wouldn't know how to effectively do it without falling into wifom.
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Post Post #1638 (isolation #87) » Wed Apr 05, 2017 4:19 pm

Post by Not Chara »

In post 1630, Desperado wrote:i'm pushing you because i don't think you're reacting how i would expect town who tunneled a widely town/nullread scum and built a couple serious associative tells off of that scumread.
i don't agree with this case, and it's not because of the Tywin townread.

waiting for the player you're pushing to be around to push is pretty basic. so is reconsidering after a period of time.
just looking at Tywin, the focus is obviously on their 1v1 with scum on day 1. they were frustrated at not being listened to so the focus was on players who had seemingly skirted the argument.

i feel like you're looking at an inconsistency and so feel confident in your case, because you have evidence that you can quote and prove. Tywin is obvious town. i concluded as much on my reread of the 1v1. it's simply not a scum fight.
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Post Post #1639 (isolation #88) » Wed Apr 05, 2017 4:19 pm

Post by Not Chara »

In post 1637, Alisae wrote:Socrates who were you on N1?
ABR.
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Post Post #1643 (isolation #89) » Wed Apr 05, 2017 4:23 pm

Post by Not Chara »

i noted it but forget to mention: i agree with Almost, scum don't get hurt very much by openly buddying Majiffy on day 1. he was in a good position with how the thread reacted to his fight and i'm not confident he would have been lynched without being shot. besides that, i don't agree that scum wouldn't want to take advantage of town players disliking Tywin after that, and joining in.
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Post Post #1644 (isolation #90) » Wed Apr 05, 2017 4:23 pm

Post by Not Chara »

In post 1630, Desperado wrote:i'm pushing you because i don't think you're reacting how i would expect town who tunneled a widely town/nullread scum and built a couple serious associative tells off of that scumread.
but you're suspicious? don't split hairs.
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Post Post #1645 (isolation #91) » Wed Apr 05, 2017 4:24 pm

Post by Not Chara »

last post was in response to .
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Post Post #1658 (isolation #92) » Thu Apr 06, 2017 3:01 am

Post by Not Chara »

In post 1173, ɀefiend wrote:
In post 1167, Not Chara wrote:i'm not 'owning an SR'. i'm refuting zefiend's point that he was the first player to say something concrete about Majiffy. that's really it.
Yeah, this is why I don't like being shaded. Because your assertions are provably wrong:

Iso Not Chara + zefiend, Ctrl+f "Majiffy":
In post 33, Not Chara wrote:VOTE: Majiffy
In post 403, ɀefiend wrote:@Tywin I wouldn't mind lynching Vifam

Desperado is pinging me more than Clumsy tbh. Don't really get how ABR pairs them as scum partners. Also not sure how a Clumsy flip would magically solve the game. Lots of people are making some bad pre-flip associations.

Gonna VOTE: Majiffy though. He ignored basically everything about Clumsy and the relevant discussion to post flavor related fluff. It seems like he's brushing off engagement.
In post 516, Not Chara wrote:i don't want Almost lynched and i don't see a reason to vote ABR. i'd much prefer more players on Majiffy. i want to see Tywin respond to Desperado's before i do anything else on that front.
Phoenix's is what's hurt my townread on the slot the most. not one, but both heads agree with this tell? it's nowhere near a universal tell, and coming from anyone from Socrates is cause enough for me to be suspicious. i'd actually thought there were more players agreeing with this case, but now that i'm looking i think i was wrong.
the only one left is Alisae, who manages to be a frustrating player for me to read whenever i've tried to.
I'm not outright accusing you of doing this intentionally, but it is most certainly a scum tactic to try to twist the interpretation or timeline of events to suit your narrative.
check my post .
i link to a post of Majiffy's and explain what i don't like.

this is completely irrelevant to the game now, but i don't like leaving loose ends that make it seem like i don't know what i'm saying. i don't blame you for not seeing it, since it wouldn't show up just by searching Majiffy in my iso.

my list of who i think scum can be is getting shorter. i don't believe zefiend is scum. this isn't as strong a read as i'd like. Tywin isn't scum, and i also don't think Vifam is.
Desperado gives me mixed feelings. i don't hate his approach to Tywin here. i know what i said earlier, but attacking Tywin after the Majiffy flip just doesn't make any sense. scum Desperado would have more sense than that, wouldn't he? pressing someone for more info when you don't understand their reasons is towny. scum choosing to do so here doesn't feel right.

i have a scumteam in mind but i think right now is the wrong time to start theory-crafting. not without seeing the results of night 3.
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Post Post #1659 (isolation #93) » Thu Apr 06, 2017 3:11 am

Post by Not Chara »

In post 1634, Socrates wrote:Tywin, every time you say I
have
to die tonight, the easier you are making it for scum to not bother killing me because they could mislynch me tomorrow instead.

I'm not asking you to change your mind, but you should backburner that thought for now.
see, there's the issue.
scum doesn't want their kills to be blocked. leaving a claimed doctor alive to hopefully wifom mislynch them, and risk that doctor protecting the player they try to kill?

it's just better play to kill you, even if they have a roleblocker.
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Post Post #1662 (isolation #94) » Thu Apr 06, 2017 3:17 am

Post by Not Chara »

true.
but usually Strongman shots are quite limited.

whatever the case, i suppose discussing this further right now is a waste of time.

pedit: why do you say that?
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Post Post #1664 (isolation #95) » Thu Apr 06, 2017 3:21 am

Post by Not Chara »

Clumsy can do that if they want to. i'm not convinced.
speaking of Clumsy: i don't know what would prompt Socrates scum to claim here as they did. it could be Tywin calling Socrates a likely Majiffy buddy, or something more elaborate. i don't think their position was secure enough to just not worry about pulling a gambit, no. though i was also townreading them yesterday.
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Post Post #1665 (isolation #96) » Thu Apr 06, 2017 3:24 am

Post by Not Chara »

i really can't read Alisae. part of me wants to say that scum wouldn't claim to give a dragonball to dead town, in a situation where scum Alisae should have known they weren't in a position to pretend they were a real NK target. i could just leave Alisae at that.
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Post Post #1667 (isolation #97) » Thu Apr 06, 2017 3:31 am

Post by Not Chara »

hm. ok, i understand how you came to that conclusion.
my stance on Desperado after looking at him for scum is that i can't find it. i want to see a real Desperado case.
strangely i want to flip him as i think it would go a long way to clarifying this game for me, but i can't justify that when i'm townreading him.

i initially thought his pushing on Tywin was annoyance from scum, in response to Tywin seemingly dropping the Alisae and Socrates scumreads, both perfectly set up, in favour of concentrating on him and myself. now i understand where he's coming from more, after ISOing him again.
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Post Post #1668 (isolation #98) » Thu Apr 06, 2017 3:37 am

Post by Not Chara »

VOTE: ABR
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Post Post #1669 (isolation #99) » Thu Apr 06, 2017 3:39 am

Post by Not Chara »

he spent day 1 pushing town and defending scum.
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Post Post #1672 (isolation #100) » Thu Apr 06, 2017 4:06 am

Post by Not Chara »

In post 1671, ɀefiend wrote:I don't really buy the "upon reread, I knew Tywin was town in the 1v1 along!"
Tywin is town because Majiffy flipped scum, not because i reread during the night.
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Post Post #1674 (isolation #101) » Thu Apr 06, 2017 4:07 am

Post by Not Chara »

Tywin: have you forgotten ABR asserting time and again that you vs. Majiffy was TvT, and separately, how town Majiffy was?
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Post Post #1675 (isolation #102) » Thu Apr 06, 2017 4:08 am

Post by Not Chara »

In post 1670, Tywin Lannister wrote:I'm confused as to what exactly changed your mind in desperado's ISO, because I read it exactly how you originally did. Idk if ABR is scum or town, but he's not the only one left if so. I also still have not gotten answers from desperado at any point, which you'd not see in just his ISO. He ignores questions directed toward him, so that's a problem. He could fix it anytime, but I'm betting he won't. So now that you claim to understand him, where exactly is he coming from? You can't just say that and not explain it.
i understand why he wants to question you and where the town mindset is in removing doubts, even if i don't agree with his conclusions.

he did answer your questions about ABR. he did it lazily, and Desperado has proven that he's not especially charismatic, but he said he's voting ABR for the same reasons he was on day 1, and to ISO him.
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Post Post #1678 (isolation #103) » Thu Apr 06, 2017 4:12 am

Post by Not Chara »

Spoiler:
In post 724, Albert B. Rampage wrote:
In post 716, Vifam wrote:
In post 703, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:Majiffy (4/7) - Not Chara, ɀefiend, Tywin Lannister, Almost50
not a fan tbh
Yeah, I really don't care for this.
In post 786, Albert B. Rampage wrote:
In post 785, Not Chara wrote:Tywin vs. Majiffy made me like Majiffy more Tywin less, but i really can't make up my mind. trying to go through the back and forth is exhausting.
Because they are both town.
In post 813, Albert B. Rampage wrote:
In post 791, Majiffy wrote:
In post 774, Tywin Lannister wrote: What I can say for sure is that anyone that scum reads me over Majiff simply hasn't read anything or they're scum. It's that simple. Majiff doesn't have a case
Like this is empirically false.

And the rest of his argument for me-scum is that I'm not engaging him, well everything he's said has been addressed two or three times over. If he continues to ignore it, what more is there for me to say?

Oh and I note that I challenged him to go post-by-post and argue his case for me-scum based on the things he said he saw in my ISO

Did he do that? Nope. Just more shitpost lying.
This is egos clashing between town, it's not scum vs. town. Let it go.
In post 947, Albert B. Rampage wrote:
In post 946, MariaR wrote:VOTE: Majiffy
I think this could be a really good starting point I feel like his vote on Almost was really meh and lackluster this zefiend Desperado are where I'm looking at vote wise in that order
This is such a scummy vote. Majiffy is town.

spoiler is ABR TRing majiffy and then discouraging all discussion on the matter.

and here's him springboarding off of Desperado agreeing with that, and calling 'Tywin and Majiffy are both town' an earlier read despite sharing it right until the hammer.
In post 948, Albert B. Rampage wrote:Majiffy, a50, Tywin, town town town.
In post 1513, Albert B. Rampage wrote:Jesus Christ, that's Jason Bourne! Nice majiffy kill!

Ok here's the deal. Desperado is caught scum. Tried to posture Tywin and Majiffy as town vs town after I called him out on it, basically parroting my earlier read. Desp is scummy as fuck, everyone follow me!

VOTE: Desp
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Post Post #1680 (isolation #104) » Thu Apr 06, 2017 4:17 am

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the town ABR was pushing was Maria. Clumsy as well, who i think is town.
and this is post that made me suspicious of ABR, who i'd honestly not been paying attention to very much until this point:
In post 1652, Albert B. Rampage wrote:Not Chara makes a good point about Clumsy stealing the hammer being more likely town. Unfortunately for not chara, that makes not chara more scummy than Clumsy now.

I would say that the likely pairings are:

Desperado+Not Chara
Zefiend+Vifam
ABR was pushing Clumsy until the end of the day. he hasn't mentioned anything that changed, except that i made a good point in favour of Clumsy town. apparently the hammer snipe was enough to remove Clumsy from ABR's scumlist, and put me there instead. which is odd when he got the point from me in the first place.

ABR, you should also go ahead and explain where you got those teams from, and why Socrates is obvious town.
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Post Post #1681 (isolation #105) » Thu Apr 06, 2017 4:19 am

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zefiend: ah. ok, i see where you got that impression. after Majiffy's flip i looked for interactions. 'it's simply not a scum fight' meant i really didn't think there was a way Tywin vs. Majiffy was scum vs. scum. i wasn't looking for that when i looked at them in more depth during the night.
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Post Post #1682 (isolation #106) » Thu Apr 06, 2017 4:21 am

Post by Not Chara »

In post 1679, ɀefiend wrote:Slightly (un)related memory jog since you're talking about ABR: it might be worth mentioning that ABR considered Majiffy v. Tywin a clash of town egos.

What do you think about an ABR + Alisae pairing?
i've been struggling to read Alisae. he makes decisions i don't agree with. the passing of the dragonball was a bad idea as town and a weird idea as scum.
i'm also rarely interested in pairing players when neither of them have flipped. but, to answer your question, if ABR is scum i don't think Alisae is scum as well. i haven't looked yet but i do seem to remember Alisae also hard townreading Majiffy.
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Post Post #1685 (isolation #107) » Thu Apr 06, 2017 4:55 am

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i suppose that's true. either way i'm not discounting Alisae as scum on an ABR scumflip, but i don't find it particularly likely over another pairing either.
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Post Post #1687 (isolation #108) » Thu Apr 06, 2017 5:40 am

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is that really what you're coming in with? i expected something with more
oomph
.
it was also very lucky for Desperado and i that the townie gunning for us had all of this material defending Majiffy and stopping players from questioning Majiffy. mafia is easy!
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Post Post #1690 (isolation #109) » Thu Apr 06, 2017 5:54 am

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In post 1689, Albert B. Rampage wrote:My counterwagon to Despy is a joke.
your 'counterwagon' is currently the two players you've called as the scumteam.
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Post Post #1691 (isolation #110) » Thu Apr 06, 2017 5:54 am

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In post 1689, Albert B. Rampage wrote:Alisae would never steal the hammer on a mislynch
this didn't happen.
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Post Post #1694 (isolation #111) » Thu Apr 06, 2017 6:00 am

Post by Not Chara »

In post 1688, Tywin Lannister wrote:
In post 1674, Not Chara wrote:Tywin: have you forgotten ABR asserting time and again that you vs. Majiffy was TvT, and separately, how town Majiffy was?
No, not entirely, but that's better than Alisae constantly saying it was SvT, with me being scum and absolutely zero reasons given as to why Majiffy was town. He went full on chainsaw defense of Majiffy, and after reading zefiends post saying I'm overthinking WIFOM here, I agree. If desperado is the red herring, then Alisae is scum. Socrates looks town, and the one BIG difference between Alisae and Socrates pertaining to the Majiffy buddying is Majiffy NEVER interacted with Alisae. At no point did he even mention him, let alone give Alisae a reason to hard defend him like they did on D1. Alisae has never asked Majiffy questions to sort him either, which is what town Ali would've done. I was overthinking this pretty badly and not looking at the obviousness of it.

Alisae is scum. I'd rather flip Ali and worry about someone like ABR/desperado later. Ali seems the obvious choice after you take WIFOM out of it.

VOTE: Alisae
what you've said about Majiffy interacting with Alisae is also true for ABR. Majiffy's iso has Alisae asking questions. is the volume not good enough?
i'm much more sure of ABR scum. nothing about how he's approached today has looked town. he attempted to limit discussion on Majiffy, and now, is limiting discussion on Desperado and wanting to immediately go to lynch.

he's also try to frame his involvement with you vs. Majiffy yesterday as though he approached it better than everyone because he defended you. defended you, and also ignored your Majiffy case just like everyone else did. he's trying to spin it as though he was helping you out and should be lauded, when he didn't help your case at all. it wasn't as though you were in danger of being lynched yesterday and he made sure you weren't with his insistence it was TvT. he was protecting his partner. Alisae may or may not have been helping, but i'm certainly nowhere close to confident or even decided on that.
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Post Post #1698 (isolation #112) » Thu Apr 06, 2017 6:09 am

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In post 1697, Albert B. Rampage wrote:Not Chara you are sounding more town now. Desperado is not your friend. He's a scumbag. SK or scum I don't know, but I guarantee you he's scum.
what about changed your mind?

you say 'Desperado is scum, maybe not with NC, but scum', and then you say i'm responding as desperate scum who was caught this morning. then after one post i'm sounding more town.
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Post Post #1700 (isolation #113) » Thu Apr 06, 2017 6:14 am

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oh, i actually got the sequence of events wrong on my last post.

still, the change from me as Desperado's desperate (heh) partner to me sounding more town, in the span of one post, is strange.
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Post Post #1701 (isolation #114) » Thu Apr 06, 2017 6:16 am

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go into more detail about why it looks authentic, please. why is it different from my other posts before?

and tell me why Socrates was obvious town to you.
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Post Post #1708 (isolation #115) » Thu Apr 06, 2017 6:25 am

Post by Not Chara »

In post 1651, Albert B. Rampage wrote:Socrates was already super town too, so him claiming was useless. I trust him to protect the right person.
so, Socrates was already super town, before he posted his reasoning for a massclaim + claim? i'm asking why he was 'already town'. is it what he posted at the beginning of the day about planning on claiming?
why do you trust him to protect the right person? what did he do in this game to earn that trust? that line just looks like pocketing. it's the same with how you're spinning your narrative with Tywin.
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Post Post #1712 (isolation #116) » Thu Apr 06, 2017 6:26 am

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In post 1702, Albert B. Rampage wrote:He was obvtown because of his dumb plan even before be revealed what it was lol. Scum don't execute convoluted plots like suggesting a massclaim d2.
'dumb plan' and 'convoluted plots'.
and also 'i trust him to protect the right person'. none of these are real feelings, they're all conveniences.
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Post Post #1716 (isolation #117) » Thu Apr 06, 2017 6:36 am

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ABR: i'm trying to engage with you and get your thought process, but it's difficult to avoid descending into laughter over you going from appealing to me about Desperado to 'fuck your micro wagon'. it's just so petty.
i don't think one post from me was genuine enough to flip your read, and i don't believe you letting go of it so easily.
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Post Post #1717 (isolation #118) » Thu Apr 06, 2017 6:39 am

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In post 1715, Tywin Lannister wrote:ABR: even if Desp is scum, why would Ali asking about a dragon ball be such a sure sign of town? Clumsy stole the lynch, not Ali. Personally, I'm ok with either of them, but Desp is a weaker case per say. I'm not averse to flipping him though, and really, NC's vote on you and ignoring the things Desp has done looks weird too. Of all the possible scum candidates, you (ABR) seems like the worst choice. Ecen considering you ignoring Majiffy, Ali did it worse by far, so NC using that reasoning to vote you looks bad.
have you been reading my posts today? what's so towny about ABR that makes him the worst choice? the difference between ABR and Alisae is that Alisae hasn't been making manipulative post after manipulative post. i've asked you directly about Alisae on Majiffy as well, and you haven't answered me yet.

and i asked you for a Desperado case. what has he done?
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Post Post #1719 (isolation #119) » Thu Apr 06, 2017 6:41 am

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In post 1692, Tywin Lannister wrote:Sometimes I need to be told I'm overthinking or looking at the wrong thing, which is what Zefiend did. Desperado made it look like it was to shade me, which I don't like, but I think flipping Ali gives more info than Desp does, even if they're both scum (probably aren't though). Ali is the logical lynch based on associations, and they never addressed why they hard defended Majiffy, why they hard SR me, why they joined into the mock/insult party of me rather than answer questions or discuss the me/Majiffy thing logically without bias, etc.

NC, the difference between say.. Your approach to the 1v1 and Alisae's is that you wanted to read up on both and assess the arguments presented rather than just make a pick and hard defend it without cause. You went into it without any set conclusions or bias. Ali did not. They wouldn't even discuss it with me, and they joined into mocking me over actually trying to figure out if I'm scum or not.

So yeah, Ali is my lynch choice after rethinking.
i don't want to defend Alisae when i've not liked his play this game at all, and can't get a good read on him.

the reason i'm not voting Alisae here is because ABR is scum, look at him.
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Post Post #1721 (isolation #120) » Thu Apr 06, 2017 6:45 am

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the original post already conveyed the pettiness of that insult and gave me a good chuckle. no need to beat the dead horse.
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Post Post #1723 (isolation #121) » Thu Apr 06, 2017 6:49 am

Post by Not Chara »

are you having fun?
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Post Post #1725 (isolation #122) » Thu Apr 06, 2017 6:54 am

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well, yeah. this is the most fun i've had in the game so far. you were so tight-lipped before.
too bad i have to lynch you.
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Post Post #1727 (isolation #123) » Thu Apr 06, 2017 7:03 am

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i'd rather not talk about this when you aren't caught up, it's a waste of time. my case on ABR is not simply that he said it was TvT. it's the way he's tried to manipulate the game with it.
i've tried to respond to you about Desperado.
look, when are you going to have time? when we're both online and caught up we can go through the points. i'm tired of this runaround.
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Post Post #1729 (isolation #124) » Thu Apr 06, 2017 7:06 am

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i'm keeping that to myself. when i said i wanted to call the scumteam but it wasn't the time for theory-crafting, i meant it. i've never been the type to try and look for partner associations while the related players are still alive. it's work that goes down the drain if one of the partners flips wrong, and no one listens to your partner association conclusions after you've died anyways.
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Post Post #1731 (isolation #125) » Thu Apr 06, 2017 7:16 am

Post by Not Chara »

In post 1513, Albert B. Rampage wrote:Jesus Christ, that's Jason Bourne! Nice majiffy kill!

Ok here's the deal. Desperado is caught scum. Tried to posture Tywin and Majiffy as town vs town after I called him out on it, basically parroting my earlier read. Desp is scummy as fuck, everyone follow me!

VOTE: Desp
ABR, can you quote where you called out Desperado for having Tywin and Majiffy and town, parroting your read?
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Post Post #1733 (isolation #126) » Thu Apr 06, 2017 7:36 am

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i'll just make an ABR post and leave it at that.

his reads aren't based on him figuring out if someone is scum or town. they're based on convenience and who he thinks he can lynch.
it's more obvious in his behaviour today.

is a good enough summary of where he was on Clumsy. 1525 he calls the team at Desperado and Clumsy.
then we get to . i make a point for Clumsy town and ABR changes his tune. i guess at this point he realized Clumsy wasn't as lynchable. i don't see a town explanation for this complete 180 after i pointed out something that happened that ABR should have read already. it's also the point where the scumread on me materializes.

so, that continues until i see ABR's posting and realize he's scum, then vote him. all he has to say is OMGUS.
comes along. he says he stepped up to the plate to defend Tywin, who was being scumread. thank goodness ABR was there. his second reaction to my vote, after calling it OMGUS, is to try and make himself look good. not by scumhunting, but my showing how very, very town he is. same post even includes the 'i wasn't on maria's wagon, i was just scumreading her' defense. then he brings up what i said about Alisae to tell you why he thinks Alisae is town. (and god, if that isn't the most delicious irony, that ABR's big vote-post against Desperado includes an accusation of parroting, and now he's piggy-backed off my comments twice. and i'm still scum with Desp here in his narrative) ABR doesn't have anything compelling to say by himself. he has posturing, like this entire post.

, i'm desperate scum OMGUSing. he derides the wagon on him, as if it should mean anything when from his point of view, the wagon is only scum. there's nothing at all to fear from a wagon that's
just scum
.

then i make . ABR says it sounded authentic when questioned. so he tries to appeal to me to vote Desperado. not with quotes, more description/detail of why Desperado is scum. just .

besides that, his earlier behaviour is specifically wanting to shut down discussion of players he doesn't want talked about. he wants Desperado lynched quickly, he doesn't want discussion. he wants players to townread Majiffy and move on, he doesn't want that questioned.
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Post Post #1734 (isolation #127) » Thu Apr 06, 2017 7:39 am

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In post 1732, Tywin Lannister wrote:Gimme an hour and I'll catch up on my lunch break, but I haven't seen any arguments that aren't just entirely based on WIFOM. I also dislike NC saying 'I'm keeping that to myself' looks odd. If you're town and get NK'd NC, what did that solve? Your reads don't have to be right to give them. If you have associations if ABR flipped scum, giving them isn't detrimental even if they're wrong. Also, I will be reading everything, so claiming it's a waste of time seems counterproductive.
i said it was waiting until day 3, earlier. i'd be deluding myself if i thought i would be a nightkill target tonight. there's a reason for this, alright?

i figured you would be reading everything, but discussing things now when you have half the story has no point. i want to discuss with you when we're on the same page with regards to what has been said and done in thread already. i don't have the infinite capacity to debate things twice because the first time you didn't read what i'm referencing and the second time you did.

and i want us to both be online so nothing gets missed, because that seems to keep happening. points/questions are difficult to lose that way.
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Post Post #1735 (isolation #128) » Thu Apr 06, 2017 7:48 am

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actually i really need a nap. hopefully it won't be too long.
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Post Post #1740 (isolation #129) » Thu Apr 06, 2017 9:03 am

Post by Not Chara »

my case is on ABR. i'm not SRing him for 'naked votes'.

they're not doing the same things at all. you can't honestly tell me Alisae, Desperado, and ABR are all playing similarly this game. i'm not discounting that Alisae could be scum, i'm saying that the evidence says ABR is the best shot at hitting scum.
don't air quotes 'manipulative'. don't do that. that's exactly what they are. you can't honestly tell me you see Desperado crafting a narrative and trying to control his reads based on how the game is going.

i am
not
calling Alisae town. it's true i'm townreading Desperado. Desp said you guys were TvT. ABR said you were TvT and to stop paying attention to Majiffy. when you sit here and tell me i'm ignoring Alisae and Desperado as though their play this game is in
any way similar
to ABR's, you sound like you're just annoyed i'm not agreeing with your scumreads.
you keep repeating that they're all doing the same things, so where is your ABR scumread? you have an Alisae scumread, and a Desperado scumread, and they're exactly the same as ABR in your mind, so ABR should be a scumread.

...now obviously i don't actually think that, but would you please examine your logic for me. none of what i've pointed out about ABR is the same as Alisae or Desperado beyond the surface level.

i am not scumreading ABR for calling you and Majiffy TvT.

it's the way he kept repeating that you were specifically to stop conversation about it. and it's the way he brings up that read as a way to accuse Desperado of parroting. i still don't understand that but there's certainly nothing in ABR's ISO that can explain it.

Alisae's play also completely differs from ABR's. Alisae's play sucks. he sheeped bad cases, and i don't find much useful in his posts. he could be scum. but he doesn't ping me like ABR is right now and i'm not convinced he's scum. i'm not saying he's town. i'm saying i want ABR dead.

you keep saying that Alisae calling you two SvT is worse than ABR calling it TvT. well, here's why SvT is less useful if Alisae is Majiffy's partner. by framing your fight with Majiffy as a debate with someone who's right and someone who's wrong, that makes whichever side isn't proven town look bad. if you'd flipped before Majiffy, Majiffy would look worse. that's bad for hypothetical scumpartner Alisae.
the reason why manipulative scum ABR, who wants to control the game, would call it TvT is so if you end up flipping, he can still safely TR his partner Majiffy because Majiffy was part of the 'obvtown TvT fight on D1'.
the above doesn't mean they both can't be scum. they could be on the same team and have different styles. my only point here is to tell you why Alisae calling you scum there instead of calling it TvT isn't 'worse' than ABR's way of handling things.

i'm not saying who ABR's partner is because i just told you, i need to wait until day 3. is that such a terrible thing to ask for. i find scum independently and push them. i'm not interested in a pool of players to lynch like i was on day 1 because i'm that confident ABR is scum.
i'm trying not to get frustrated because this is exactly the situation you were in on day 1.

i was hoping for a consolidated 1 or 2 posts on Desperado because i find them so much easier to process if it's in one place. that's the reason i collected all my ABR material isn't of leaving it spread about my ISO. i was considering Desperado scum, you can see it when i question him scumreading you. despite what you want to believe i haven't been ignoring him. but i've drawn my own conclusions. and frankly if ABR is scum it's unlikely Desperado is. it's so much easier to rule-out partner associations than it is to form them.

i can also see town motivation from Desperado. for one, he's pushing ABR. i found his early-game posting towny, such as how he formed his reads and how he explained his thought process. another thing, scum questioning you here isn't an ideal move for them to make. the player you're pushing all day flips scum, and Desperado sees something he thinks is odd. so he presses it. i understand that, it's a town thought-process. is it a scum thought-process to press you here, Tywin? not even as a scumread, but because he doesn't understand where you're coming from. i don't agree with Desperado's opinion here, i didn't find your behaviour odd, but i found the way he thought about the situation to be towny.

but please, if we continue this further let's keep it to one or two points of discussion at a time. it's so much easier for me to follow and think about.
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Post Post #1741 (isolation #130) » Thu Apr 06, 2017 9:08 am

Post by Not Chara »

In post 1739, Tywin Lannister wrote:You voted Maria without reason and never moved
Tywin this is false, and you are killing me. you are
killing
me. Maria and Desperado had an entire argument. you should read it again. even if you don't agree with the reason there
was
a reason for the vote.
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Post Post #1748 (isolation #131) » Thu Apr 06, 2017 9:51 am

Post by Not Chara »

stop saying i think Alisae is town, i've denied that a few times.
In post 1744, Tywin Lannister wrote:Desp has skated by doing scummy things and not doing townie things, and all I have to go on for the contrary is your claimed ISO that says you completely understand where Desp comes from. Interesting to note, you never provided any reasons why you believe that, which isn't like you. You're usually very good at giving reasons for things..
In post 1740, Not Chara wrote:another thing, scum questioning you here isn't an ideal move for them to make. the player you're pushing all day flips scum, and Desperado sees something he thinks is odd. so he presses it. i understand that, it's a town thought-process. is it a scum thought-process to press you here, Tywin? not even as a scumread, but because he doesn't understand where you're coming from. i don't agree with Desperado's opinion here, i didn't find your behaviour odd, but i found the way he thought about the situation to be towny.
yes, yes i have provided reasons. if they're not satisfactory then tell me what specific things you have a problem with and we can discuss it. specific things. if you say 'he does scummy things' i really cannot say anything in response.

but i'm so utterly tired of arguing this, and a Desperado townflip wouldn't be terrible in the long run. if Desperado is going to keep responding to you with crap instead of explanations because he's annoyed, i'll let him get lynched for it and i'll stop dealing with it.
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Post Post #1751 (isolation #132) » Thu Apr 06, 2017 9:54 am

Post by Not Chara »

and if you say 'i've talked about Desperado before' then it's the same as telling me to ISO you and respond to everything. that is
impossible
. narrow your focus, please. i'm giving you specific instances, that's what i need back or we can't talk.

Alisae: Tywin says you gave zero reasons for majiffy to be town. is that true or not?
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Post Post #1753 (isolation #133) » Thu Apr 06, 2017 10:00 am

Post by Not Chara »

can you talk more about why it looked TvT to you?
do you find tunneling scummy? i've seen town do it a lot. hell, i guess i'm doing it.

i just ISOed Alisae for mentions of Majiffy, Tywin. you have to stop denying things have happened. saying things like 'Desperado voted Maria and gave no reasons' or 'Alisae gave zero reasons for TRing Majiffy'. it makes you impossible to work with. there's making a mistake and then there's being difficult because you disagree with someone.
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Post Post #1755 (isolation #134) » Thu Apr 06, 2017 10:08 am

Post by Not Chara »

is it bad that i agree with him? i think the genuine anger i was reading from Majiffy was because Tywin is genuinely annoying to talk to about things like this. every time i make a point he then repeats something i've not said as though i did, and says i haven't explained things after just explaining them. and i suppose that because i'm townreading Desperado for a few different things he's done, coupled with the context of him being pushed by my number one scumread, it's not good enough because i haven't explained Desperado's play and why it's all so fucking towny for the entire game from start to finish. it's not towny from start to finish. i'm a human being and Desperado is too, it's impossible to understand every single decision someone makes in a mafia game. the
multiple
reasons i've given for townreading Desperado should be enough.
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Post Post #1757 (isolation #135) » Thu Apr 06, 2017 10:14 am

Post by Not Chara »

Tywin doesn't even need to townread Desperado. i can respect someone having different reads. but it's like i lose all credibility on ABR because Tywin thinks what i've said is inadequate and i really can't explain myself any more than i already have!

Alisae: having different reads isn't awful. Desperado getting lynched here isn't the end of the world, in fact i very much want him gone, it would make everything so easy. but the best solution to my problem here really should not be to lynch someone i think is town. it's not something i can justify to myself.

Almost: whenever you get back. are you properly scumreading Desperado? can you quote/tell me why?
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Post Post #1786 (isolation #136) » Thu Apr 06, 2017 11:41 pm

Post by Not Chara »

In post 1766, Desperado wrote:he also believes I haven't done anything all game to build reads

how am I supposed to react to that other than exasperated annoyance?
i don't know, i've made an attempt at least. you could do something like help me case ABR, collect the posts you've made previously... literally anything other than do nothing but respond to Tywin in a way that doesn't help the game at all?
In post 1774, Desperado wrote:1) in what way do i appear worried about your vote or what you think
because nearly all of your posts have been complaining at Tywin. instead of saying he should know things he obviously missed/ignored, quote yourself and shove it in his face. do something. all i see is you being pissed off. you were doing things before.
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Post Post #1787 (isolation #137) » Thu Apr 06, 2017 11:43 pm

Post by Not Chara »

Alisae, why did you have to quote like five wallposts from Tywin without a spoiler? your ISO is hell to search now.
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Post Post #1788 (isolation #138) » Thu Apr 06, 2017 11:45 pm

Post by Not Chara »

anyway. all i found on Desperado for you was that he looked like he was coasting on day 1. i think i remember asking you to elaborate on that at some point, but i can't find it right now. what has the read so strong for you? you didn't sound very convinced at the tail-end of day 1, you just said he 'feels like he was coasting'.
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Post Post #1794 (isolation #139) » Fri Apr 07, 2017 5:27 am

Post by Not Chara »

In post 1791, Tywin Lannister wrote:Now he votes ABR (before you) while giving no case at all. It was a naked vote. Any town with a real SR can give their case, regardless of it being good or bad. Refusing IMO always points to scum. It takes no effort to post thoughts on any player here. He doesn't need to pull out a spreadsheet and go over every post. All he had to do was say 'I don't like X, I don't like Y, they're scum because of X,y,z.' Not doing so in my view always means the player doesn't actually believe their SR and is faking it.

Anyway, why defend the guy so much? What did you see in the ISO that made him such a strong TR?
first point: this is the second time i've said this Tywin, so please read it this time. Desperado did answer you. he said he was voting ABR for the reasons he was already scumreading ABR for day 1. i ISOed Desperado, and found that this was true. specifically he doesn't believe the way ABR is crafting narratives (i'm calling this manipulation but they're essentially synonyms). so this point is utterly moot.

second point: i wouldn't defend him this much if you didn't bring him up every time i tried to talk about ABR. i defend him every time because you keep calling my read into question and
asking me about it
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Post Post #1795 (isolation #140) » Fri Apr 07, 2017 5:32 am

Post by Not Chara »

In post 1791, Tywin Lannister wrote:I think everyone can at least agree that Desperado hasn't been trying his best to find scum and build a case on them. Isnt that a sign of coasting, or is the semantics of it more important? My general feel has always been that he's coasting and generally not doing much. Yes, he could point out a post or two that I missed, but he hasn't, and not even doing that is a coasting sign. Let's just say that if he is town, he isn't putting in much effort to help town win.
i won't argue with you there, Desperado hasn't been super engaged this game, and he hasn't been trying his best to put in the effort. that by itself is not a reason for a scumread, Tywin. it could certainly be part of a case if there were other things.
but i don't read players based on how much they care about the game. if i lynched every townie who wasn't trying to win with all of their might, scum would win every game just by trying at it a little.
Desperado's thought process looks like town to me, and no i'm tired of repeating myself on that one so if you ask why, i'm going to ask you to ISO me.

Alisae: it's not a big problem, haha. it's just that Tywin is difficult to ISO with the search feature because of the volume of words, so when you quoted all those posts it bloated your ISO where it was easier to search before.
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Post Post #1797 (isolation #141) » Fri Apr 07, 2017 6:05 am

Post by Not Chara »

thrilling case.
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Post Post #1798 (isolation #142) » Fri Apr 07, 2017 6:05 am

Post by Not Chara »

In post 1731, Not Chara wrote:
In post 1513, Albert B. Rampage wrote:Jesus Christ, that's Jason Bourne! Nice majiffy kill!

Ok here's the deal. Desperado is caught scum. Tried to posture Tywin and Majiffy as town vs town after I called him out on it, basically parroting my earlier read. Desp is scummy as fuck, everyone follow me!

VOTE: Desp
ABR, can you quote where you called out Desperado for having Tywin and Majiffy and town, parroting your read?
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Post Post #1800 (isolation #143) » Fri Apr 07, 2017 6:13 am

Post by Not Chara »

why would i ask Desperado to find something you claimed you did?
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Post Post #1801 (isolation #144) » Fri Apr 07, 2017 6:14 am

Post by Not Chara »

In post 1799, Albert B. Rampage wrote:Why don't you ask Desperado to quote you it? I am done trying to convince you. I already answered too many of your questions with no return on investment. I was too nice to you.
convince me? i thought i was your Desperado partner. who is it then?
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Post Post #1803 (isolation #145) » Fri Apr 07, 2017 6:18 am

Post by Not Chara »

In post 1788, Not Chara wrote:anyway. all i found on Desperado for you was that he looked like he was coasting on day 1. i think i remember asking you to elaborate on that at some point, but i can't find it right now. what has the read so strong for you? you didn't sound very convinced at the tail-end of day 1, you just said he 'feels like he was coasting'.
did you answer this, Alisae?
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Post Post #1808 (isolation #146) » Fri Apr 07, 2017 6:24 am

Post by Not Chara »

hm. why is ABR townlean?

pedit: yes, no one's talked about him since he hasn't posted. i'm waiting on a replacement too. though i'm townreading him a bit from yesterday based on meta. not that strong of a read but simply being inactive also isn't a scumtell.
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Post Post #1810 (isolation #147) » Fri Apr 07, 2017 6:29 am

Post by Not Chara »

i don't agree that it suggests he might be scum. it's one thing for scum to skirt by... but Vifam hasn't been here at all. it's pointless to ask for someone who will be prodded/replaced. there's no way to pressure.

did nothing i said about ABR make you wonder in the least, Alisae?
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Post Post #1813 (isolation #148) » Fri Apr 07, 2017 6:36 am

Post by Not Chara »

In post 1811, Alisae wrote:Okay yeah that's fine. You're right.
And can I talk about ABR later? I rather keep my thoughts to myself about that read.
that depends, when is later? later this day, or on day 3?
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Post Post #1817 (isolation #149) » Fri Apr 07, 2017 6:59 am

Post by Not Chara »

Alisae: alright, but along with your thoughts about my ABR read on day 3, i expect a justification for why it had to be day 3.
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Post Post #1818 (isolation #150) » Fri Apr 07, 2017 6:59 am

Post by Not Chara »

Almost: i hope you're caught up. i want your opinion on everything.
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Post Post #1820 (isolation #151) » Fri Apr 07, 2017 7:34 am

Post by Not Chara »

no one is waiting for anything.
why are you content to sheep Tywin and not sheep me? why are you scumreading Desperado?
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Post Post #1822 (isolation #152) » Fri Apr 07, 2017 7:37 am

Post by Not Chara »

In post 1800, Not Chara wrote:why would i ask Desperado to find something you claimed you did?
In post 1801, Not Chara wrote:
In post 1799, Albert B. Rampage wrote:Why don't you ask Desperado to quote you it? I am done trying to convince you. I already answered too many of your questions with no return on investment. I was too nice to you.
convince me? i thought i was your Desperado partner. who is it then?
my questions aren't just going to go away, ABR.
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Post Post #1824 (isolation #153) » Fri Apr 07, 2017 8:04 am

Post by Not Chara »

there was a second question there. why is Desperado scum for you?
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Post Post #1863 (isolation #154) » Sat Apr 08, 2017 6:32 am

Post by Not Chara »

did you forget Maria's VT flip, Tywin? it was a named side character as well.
and Clumsy clamed Moori.
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Post Post #1868 (isolation #155) » Sat Apr 08, 2017 6:42 am

Post by Not Chara »

also Alisae is still null for me. i wouldn't hate an Alisae lynch, he's certainly not a townread.

zefiend: would love to hear about your catchup when you're able.

Almost: ah, i hoped you would come around. but i hope you've read those posts you said you weren't able to yesterday.
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Post Post #1871 (isolation #156) » Sat Apr 08, 2017 6:44 am

Post by Not Chara »

ABR/Alisae is my second pick for the scumteam. my actual best pick for the scumteam is, like i said, waiting for day 3, but obviously that one includes ABR too. i don't have a townread on Alisae.

Vifam is my worst townread but he still is one. it's a weak read because of meta. pretty sure he will be replaced
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Post Post #1874 (isolation #157) » Sat Apr 08, 2017 6:48 am

Post by Not Chara »

Tywin, you have a bad attitude right now and so does Desperado.
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Post Post #1877 (isolation #158) » Sat Apr 08, 2017 6:52 am

Post by Not Chara »

and happy cakeday, ABR! <3 better luck next year.

pedit: please stop.
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Post Post #1879 (isolation #159) » Sat Apr 08, 2017 6:53 am

Post by Not Chara »

ABR you gave a sentence on why Desperado is scum
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Post Post #1880 (isolation #160) » Sat Apr 08, 2017 6:55 am

Post by Not Chara »

your entire case is Desperado thought it was TvT but only said so after you asked what his opinion on the fight was. also 'coasting'.
your case is that Desperado is lazy. good case. Vifam is lazy too.

who's Desperado's partner? i read the game, and i
think
it's me still, correct?
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Post Post #1884 (isolation #161) » Sat Apr 08, 2017 7:00 am

Post by Not Chara »

In post 1883, Albert B. Rampage wrote:You, alisae, zefiend, vifam. Last 2 scum in those 4.
well this is a choice quote.
i thought one of the two last scum was Desperado?
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Post Post #1894 (isolation #162) » Sat Apr 08, 2017 7:11 am

Post by Not Chara »

In post 1885, Albert B. Rampage wrote:If Ali is scum, it's not with desperado. I have built hypothetical scum pairings.
that doesn't explain why Desperado isn't in that list then.

i asked who Desperado's scumpartner was. you gave me 4 players(including a player who is not Desp's scumpartner according to you) and said the last 2 scum were within that group. looks like a mistake to me. ;>

so, again:
who
do you think Desp's scumpartner is? you seem to have a list of possible
scapegoats
pairs, so this isn't a difficult question.
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Post Post #1897 (isolation #163) » Sat Apr 08, 2017 7:13 am

Post by Not Chara »

no, no, no. i will utterly oppose a massclaim. there is no reason to do so today when we have so many mislynches left.
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Post Post #1901 (isolation #164) » Sat Apr 08, 2017 7:16 am

Post by Not Chara »

so why did i have to beat that answer out of you instead of you giving it in the first place?

and still, why is your best, most confident scumread Desperado, that you will not move your vote from and will lambast all townreads of, not included in that 4 player list of who the last 2 scum are?
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Post Post #1902 (isolation #165) » Sat Apr 08, 2017 7:18 am

Post by Not Chara »

In post 1899, Desperado wrote:crowdsourcing the vig/leashing the sk and our doc already being out chief among them
listen when people tell you not to massclaim, please.
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Post Post #1903 (isolation #166) » Sat Apr 08, 2017 7:21 am

Post by Not Chara »

In post 1887, Almost50 wrote:@Chara: I've concluded that ABR is better left for the night action to sort. He is either Town, Scum or SK. Either Town/Scum the SK will want to take him out. Either Town/SK SCUM will want to take him out. The one thing that remains is if it's a Vig not SK, and then SCUM will take care of ABR if he is not scum.

In sum: ABR is dangerous to have around for long as either alignment. Whatever he is NOT is sure to deal with him, so let's not waste our time on that slot for now.
i'm not leaving ABR scum for a night action, trusting that the threat of his mighty reputation will be enough to get him nightkilled at some point.
i'm sorry Almost, it just isn't happening. if you can't see what i see, and also can't actually explain to me why he's town by play, then you're not going to get me to budge.
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Post Post #1908 (isolation #167) » Sat Apr 08, 2017 7:28 am

Post by Not Chara »

those are good odds. ;>

Albert, much like Desperado but going utterly unnoticed by Tywin, also enjoys giving reads without any reasoning at all, only doing so after i wrestle them from him.
the reason for this is not conclusive, but prelimary testing suggests ABR is charismatic and Desperado is pissy.

pedit: ooh, scare-tactics now. i like the new direction.
notice how it comes immediately after the Desperado wagon goes belly up. why not beforehand? what if ABR was
nightkilled
? i'd sweep the game.
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Post Post #1917 (isolation #168) » Sat Apr 08, 2017 7:38 am

Post by Not Chara »

In post 1914, Albert B. Rampage wrote:NC I enjoy playing with you. If you are town, you will get to know my playstyle in time, but you're dead wrong here. Looking forward to more games together.
oh, i feel the same. i'm having a lot of fun. even if it turns out i'm completely wrong and was tunneling you in ridiculous fashion. but i'm so damn convinced, that i'll shake your hand and congratulate you on fooling everyone through excellent use of your already excellent reputation.
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Post Post #1919 (isolation #169) » Sat Apr 08, 2017 7:40 am

Post by Not Chara »

In post 1913, Almost50 wrote:
In post 1906, Albert B. Rampage wrote:A50 explain to them the difference between my town and scum game please.
I'm not an expert in your play, mate, but I'd say you lurk a lot when you're Scum. You hardly said a word in the main thread in FA's abandoned game.
hm, interesting.

Almost would you keep in mind that ABR has very little content today that wasn't pushed by me? seriously, when you get the time ISO us in day 2 and see what you think.
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Post Post #1922 (isolation #170) » Sat Apr 08, 2017 7:48 am

Post by Not Chara »

Tywin, your blanket statements about the players you view as disagreeing with you are detrimental to actual discussion.
i'm literally tunneling so well that ABR complimented me for the sheer enjoyment of it.

if we've heard from zefiend and Vifam's replacement, and nothing has changed, i'll lynch Alisae.

pedit: yes, exactly. everyone keeps assuming the night actions will continue to help just because we were lucky enough to get a Majiffy shot.
scum have power roles, remember? those still exist.
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Post Post #1925 (isolation #171) » Sat Apr 08, 2017 7:52 am

Post by Not Chara »

just in case anyone suggests it again.

we are not massclaiming. and we have one night of flips, one claim, and plenty of time. so do not assume things we don't know about the setup.

pedit: you know what, you probably did. i'll read it when i get home, i guess?
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Post Post #1929 (isolation #172) » Sat Apr 08, 2017 7:58 am

Post by Not Chara »

In post 1927, Tywin Lannister wrote:Anyone disagreeing is inherently either scum or so blinded that they're compromising the game IMO.
you are blinded by your ego and incapable of the simplest form of seeing the point of view of others. you're also incapable of reading that i'm happy to lynch Alisae after arguing for my own position down to the bone.
there are two players we're still waiting on here.
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Post Post #1930 (isolation #173) » Sat Apr 08, 2017 7:59 am

Post by Not Chara »

In post 1928, Almost50 wrote:I didn't get the "no massclaim when we have so many mislynches left"!!! I thought the whole purpose of a massclaim is to minimize the pool of said mislynches.
can i ask you to trust my judgement instead?
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Post Post #1933 (isolation #174) » Sat Apr 08, 2017 8:01 am

Post by Not Chara »

oh, ABR, i know how you can help me.

do you have any games where you were lynched as scum in a time that wasn't lylo? if they're older than three years, i'm not interested.
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Post Post #1934 (isolation #175) » Sat Apr 08, 2017 8:03 am

Post by Not Chara »

In post 1932, Albert B. Rampage wrote:Agreed with NC, mass claim on Day 2 when we're winning is idiotic and scum-driven.
this is just correct, yes.
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Post Post #1942 (isolation #176) » Sat Apr 08, 2017 9:40 am

Post by Not Chara »

how many times do i have to say i'll lynch Alisae if we hear from zefiend/Vifam's replacement, Tywin, before you read it?

if ABR flips town, shoot me. sure.

Almost: i was asking for meta on ABR getting lynched because i wanted to figure out how to do it. it was a tongue-in-cheek suggestion, i'm not the type of player to read other games or lean on meta and i don't plan on starting now.

on massclaim: i'd rather quicklynch Alisae right now, zefiend and replacement Vifam be damned, than massclaim.
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Post Post #1944 (isolation #177) » Sat Apr 08, 2017 9:59 am

Post by Not Chara »

actually, i change my mind. i didn't really mean it in the first place, but shooting me for being wrong doesn't help anything. i'm back to wishing Desperado was dead. vigging him would be nice.
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Post Post #1947 (isolation #178) » Sat Apr 08, 2017 10:42 am

Post by Not Chara »

Almost: i think i asked you why ABR is town. you said he was town by play, and you're incredibly confident, but could you go into it? i can't rewire my thinking if players only have arguments for why ABR is
null
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Post Post #1948 (isolation #179) » Sat Apr 08, 2017 10:48 am

Post by Not Chara »

In post 1945, Desperado wrote:if you're against mass claim and you want me dead you should just be lynching me then

it doesn't make any sense to force another claim
oh, believe me Desperado, i'm rapidly getting over wanting to keep you alive. at this point i don't want to back down on it due to pride. (and because really, i still think you're town)
but you haven't tried scumhunting since the beginning of the day.
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Post Post #1996 (isolation #180) » Sat Apr 08, 2017 2:33 pm

Post by Not Chara »

In post 1954, Lycanfire wrote:I'm here and queer

(Actually only one of those)

Please tell me in your own words major events that took place in this game while I decide who is getting nailed to a cross
let's see. first, claims:
Desperado claims VT, and the same flavour as the dead Imperium.
Clumsy claims Moori and VT.
Socrates claims doctor. Clumsy gave Socrates their dragonball last night.
Alisae says he gave Imperium his dragonball, so it's in scum hands.
the Majiffy kill indicates a serial killer or vigilante.

events: main event on day 1 was a Tywin vs. Majiffy argument. it didn't lead to a lynch, though Tywin pushed hard. instead Desperado and Maria also had an argument, and Maria was eventually lynched. though Clumsy could have gone instead if things were different.

Majiffy was killed at night by someone.

day 2 started with Socrates claiming doctor and arguing for a massclaim. also, a wagon formed on Desperado quickly. i'm doing this by memory so i don't remember the timeline, but i fought the Desperado lynch, and Tywin and Almost both shifted focus to Alisae. i've been trying for an ABR lynch.
did i miss anything?
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Post Post #1997 (isolation #181) » Sat Apr 08, 2017 3:38 pm

Post by Not Chara »

why can't the players who are being wagoned actually care about being lynched? i'm tempted to vote Desperafo just because Alisae has just the slightest more of a desire to live.
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Post Post #1998 (isolation #182) » Sat Apr 08, 2017 3:40 pm

Post by Not Chara »

*Desperado.

Alisae when you say you don't care about things, and don't say why, and don't give any of your process, i get nothing from you.
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Post Post #1999 (isolation #183) » Sat Apr 08, 2017 3:45 pm

Post by Not Chara »

and now i'm just stuck rereading Code Geass again. honestly you're not very different there. but it did seem you were more invested, not that investment is really AI.
why doesn't the input of three players you're townreading sway you at all?
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Post Post #2009 (isolation #184) » Sun Apr 09, 2017 6:14 am

Post by Not Chara »

In post 2001, Tywin Lannister wrote:
In post 1998, Not Chara wrote:*Desperado.

Alisae when you say you don't care about things, and don't say why, and don't give any of your process, i get nothing from you.
NC, you're saying the exact reasons why I get pinged by Alisae. Unless this is a one off, it's not like him to play this way as town. Alisae is usually pretty aggressive and all-in on the scum hunt. They haven't been this game to the standard I'm used to, to say the least. It could be their RL stuff making them this way, but I can't judge based on that.
right. i do understand the scumread... i still want to wait for zefiend, i'm expecting something because it looked like he had something he wanted to say.
and lycan should be caught up at some point.
i remember liking working with Alisae a lot during Code Geass. he was townreading me and took my input. it's like he doesn't care about the opinions of anyone else in this game.
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Post Post #2010 (isolation #185) » Sun Apr 09, 2017 6:17 am

Post by Not Chara »

In post 2008, Desperado wrote: that was a typo bro
Alisae wasn't making a point about the difference between 'in' and 'one of'.
are you scumreading Clumsy's play today?
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Post Post #2020 (isolation #186) » Sun Apr 09, 2017 12:59 pm

Post by Not Chara »

i'm not claiming. that i keep opposing it despite Tywin being correct from his point of view should tell you all something.
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Post Post #2023 (isolation #187) » Sun Apr 09, 2017 1:44 pm

Post by Not Chara »

what don't you like about today from Clumsy?
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Post Post #2026 (isolation #188) » Sun Apr 09, 2017 2:36 pm

Post by Not Chara »

In post 2025, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:
I PRODDED SOCRATES 8 HOURS AGO IM SORRY TO FORGET MENTIONING THAT
you should be
ashamed
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Post Post #2027 (isolation #189) » Sun Apr 09, 2017 2:37 pm

Post by Not Chara »

In post 2024, Desperado wrote:the way they are presuming my lynch has been a foregone conclusion.
why does that make them scum?
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Post Post #2052 (isolation #190) » Sun Apr 09, 2017 11:43 pm

Post by Not Chara »

Tywin, it's been two days since lycan said it would catch up on an 83-page game. zefiend has also not caught up yet, we're waiting on both and i doubt both are scum.
why don't you want to lynch Alisae?
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Post Post #2053 (isolation #191) » Sun Apr 09, 2017 11:52 pm

Post by Not Chara »

i do appreciate Socrates catching up.
why did my ISO give a confident townread?

Alisae: wanting to hammer Maria
was
dragonball motivated. why no response to my comments about Code Geass or your play this game?
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Post Post #2063 (isolation #192) » Mon Apr 10, 2017 6:45 am

Post by Not Chara »

In post 2061, Tywin Lannister wrote:
In post 2052, Not Chara wrote:Tywin, it's been two days since lycan said it would catch up on an 83-page game. zefiend has also not caught up yet, we're waiting on both and i doubt both are scum.
why don't you want to lynch Alisae?
They claimed and the last real lurker besides Zefiend is lycan. I see no reason not to vote the Vifam/lycan slot. It doesn't solve the third or more scum player(s), but it's at least one of them if my suspicions are true. Nobody's lynching them before they post, but at some point, it starts getting scummy over being NAI.
so instead of lynching your scumread, your solution is to force a massclaim by going after players who haven't?
i have to go. be back tonight.
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Post Post #2074 (isolation #193) » Mon Apr 10, 2017 10:40 am

Post by Not Chara »

In post 2069, Socrates wrote:There's no need for me to explain. I WILL be heavily scrutinizing your play day 3, however.

Care to respond to my other posts pointed your way? They are still relevant.

I'm giving you my dragon ball tonight. If it doesn't arrive, then Imperium's question about whether ball passing can be roleblocked can be considered officially answered.

Capiche?
sorry, could you quote the posts? i can't remember any pending questions but i can go look.

and yes, i understand, believe me. with that in mind i'd actually recommend giving the ball to someone else, like Tywin.
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Post Post #2075 (isolation #194) » Mon Apr 10, 2017 10:42 am

Post by Not Chara »

In post 2067, Tywin Lannister wrote:And NC: I'm going with the safe bet. Idk whose scum, but I have said multiple times whose in my lynch pool. IMO, it's a process of elimination. What do you care if lycan gets lynched or not? If he's scum, that's good for us. Only his buddies would care. I'm unsure about you too, but I'm going off of your hints and current play to guess. If proven otherwise, then you'll be lynched and that's that, but til then, I have to go with the most likely scum. You not wanting to claim after the things you've said seems pointless to me, and no doubt scum think the same if you are town, but that's your choice. Lycan is a lurker just like Vifam was, and we're at the stage where lurker scum need the rope. It's that simple.
i know Vifam/lycan are in your lynchpool, but i don't see how a VT claim tells you anything about Alisae's alignment. i suppose in the grand scheme of things my reads on those two are not different enough that i vastly prefer one over the other, but i do think it's more likely for Alisae to flip scum. i just don't want any more claims we don't need.
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Post Post #2076 (isolation #195) » Mon Apr 10, 2017 11:03 am

Post by Not Chara »

In post 1631, Desperado wrote:i think it's not a very power heavy game anyway. doc + vig + something not super important is probably all we have
Desperado, i don't understand how you could really think the town setup is doc + vig and that the mafia wouldn't have any counters to that. roleblocker, an x-shot strongman? i think i meant to comment on this earlier but i realized i never did.
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Post Post #2077 (isolation #196) » Mon Apr 10, 2017 11:09 am

Post by Not Chara »

i was looking for Socrates's questions but i'll just let them quote it, because i'm not sure what's that pressing in there. things like my misremembering where ABR's vote was at the end of day 1, are resolved just by informing me.
but i did realize from that ISO that Socrates's allusion to why Desperado is scum and why the scumteam probably has a roleblocker are related to the post i just quoted from Desp.
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Post Post #2081 (isolation #197) » Mon Apr 10, 2017 11:18 am

Post by Not Chara »

In post 2079, Desperado wrote:
In post 2077, Not Chara wrote:
In post 1631, Desperado wrote:i think it's not a very power heavy game anyway. doc + vig + something not super important is probably all we have
Desperado, i don't understand how you could really think the town setup is doc + vig and that the mafia wouldn't have any counters to that. roleblocker, an x-shot strongman? i think i meant to comment on this earlier but i realized i never did.
doc + vig isn't that powerful of a town to begin with, why would scum need a direct counter?

majiffy already flipping a relatively useless role + all the VT claims suggests to me that there's not much in the way of scum power, which suggests that there isn't much town power beyond what's claimed either
allowing the town a vig-kill every single night isn't strong?
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Post Post #2082 (isolation #198) » Mon Apr 10, 2017 11:19 am

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hm, no. i suppose that isn't exactly it. after massclaim the vig can only get 2 more kills off, so it isn't absolute.
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Post Post #2084 (isolation #199) » Mon Apr 10, 2017 11:22 am

Post by Not Chara »

ah. first quote, i remember reading it but that was at a time i was
convinced
you and ABR were the scumteam. i still believe ABR is scum but i don't think you are. i do understand your reasoning from that time, and if i'm remembering correctly i still do, i just don't agree and think he was pocketing you.

on Desperado: first day he was certainly talking about his scumread on ABR and about the formation of narratives from it. Desp hasn't done anything today besides right at the beginning so that's a dead-end.
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