BlackVoid's Mini Normal Review

[BlackVoid]

Hi guys.

[BlackVoid]

There aren't two neighborizers. One is a friendly neighbor who basically selects a target and I'll mod-confirm them as town to their target. They don't get a private topic. There's only going to be one private topic in the game (other than the mafia topic of course).

[BlackVoid]

Yeah, I'll try to use a nice font and center the heading in the actual thread. But the content is pretty much what I posted.

[BlackVoid]

Three dead in one night happens when the weak friendly neighbor targets scum. Which means as long as they crumb right, it's a guaranteed scum lynch the following day.

But I see what you mean. By "just a friendly neighbor" are you suggesting a 1-shot or a full role? My current weak friendly neighbor is a 1-shot role.

As for the formatting, yeah I'll post it here. Hang on for a sec.

[BlackVoid]

Mini Normal ####: Chocolate Mafia

Still Playing

1. Player 1
   
2. Player 2
   
3. Player 3
   
4. Player 4
   
5. Player 5
   
6. Player 6
   
7. Player 7
   
8. Player 8
   
9. Player 9
   
10. Player 10
    
11. Player 11
    
12. Player 12
    
13. Player 13

Eliminated

1. No one yet

Links

D1: Start

[BlackVoid]

Rules & Public Info

Boilerplate game rules, 2 week days, 48 hour nights, 48 hours before prod, 24 hours before replacement.

Daytalk.

3 mafia

vs

10 town

. Mafia members can perform kill in addition to any role usage.

Sample Role PM

Vanilla Townie

Welcome [Player Name] to Mini Normal X. You are a Vanilla Townie.

Abilities:

• Your weapon is your vote, you have no night actions.

Win condition:

• You win when all mafia have been eliminated and there is at least one town player alive.

Confirm through PM by replying with your Role and Alignment. Game thread is here.

[BlackVoid]

Okay so, regarding rules, can I just add a line:

1. A lynch (or no lynch) occurs when a simple majority is reached. If deadline is reached without a simple majority, a no lynch occurs.

or am I missing other stuff? Typically if I'm player, I hate reading rulelists that are a whole page of obvious stuff so I wanted to get just the essentials down.

Regarding the weak friendly neighbor and vig, how would you like it if I changed the vig to 2-shot and left the weak friendly neighbor as is?

What's wrong with the scum wincon?

[BlackVoid]

I was going back and forth on how to word the scum wincon for a while actually.

I ideally wanted it so that the mafia kill takes precedence over the vig kill but I checked normal guidelines on the wiki and it seems that all kills have to resolve simultaneously. So, if I wanted the wincon as I phrased it, I'd have to account for the possibility of a draw. (I didn't want to do the 50% wincon because I didn't feel it was in the spirit of what I felt a mafia game was supposed to be: one team eliminating the other entirely.) So, I settled on allowing the possibility of a draw and balanced the game around that.

[BlackVoid]

@Regfan - vig is also essentially a named townie though. If they claim vig, given that there isn't a lot of power, the town can treat them as confirmed town just through setup spec. And if mafia claim PRs, the vig has the ability to prove their role and town can no lynch before or after.

[BlackVoid]

I was also throwing around the idea of having a backup vig. Vig is a strong role but swingy based on skill level but if multiple townies are responsible for it, that would more closely reflect the skill of the town. So, if the vig dies, someone else would become the 1-shot vig.

[BlackVoid]

Re: Wincon - so should I just add a line saying "or nothing can prevent it from happening?"

Re: Ruleset - I'll try and skim through finished normal games and find an experienced mod and copy their ruleset then in a bit.

Re: Vig - I'm changing it to 2-shot then.

Re: watcher - I really wanted some way of letting the mafia know that there is a watcher so that they are discouraged from shooting the most threatening townies but I can't find a way to do that. Thoughts?

[BlackVoid]

Okay, I'm going to copy rules from Mini Normal 1742 by Mykonian.

I don't really care if anyone uses whatever colors they want or isn't nice to me (I have a thick skin).

Here's what my final rulelist will look like:

---

Deadlines

2 week days, 48 hour nights. 48 hours before prod, 24 hours before replacement.

Rules

Be nice to your fellow players. Don't break the game by artificial means. When the majority of the votes is on a person, he gets lynched. If you don't get a majority before the deadline, a no lynch occurs. Vote using bold or vote tags.

Spoiler: Sample VT Role PM

Vanilla Townie

Welcome [Player Name] to Mini Normal X. You are a Vanilla Townie.

Abilities:

• Your weapon is your vote, you have no night actions.

Win condition:

• You win when all mafia have been eliminated and there is at least one town player alive.

Confirm through PM by replying with your Role and Alignment. Game thread is here.

Public Info

Daytalk.

3 mafia

vs

10 town

. Mafia members can perform kill in addition to any role usage.

[BlackVoid]

The following win condition should suffice. "You win when you have at least one member alive and the Town have been eliminated or nothing can prevent this from occurring."

Yeah, I'll use this.

Also couldn't think of a way of letting mafia know a watcher exists. Maybe making it so the watcher cannot target the same player two nights in a row is a decent middle ground? So they can't just sit on a singular clear. Mafia still may end up shooting the player the night the watcher is on them but it's less of a given with that.

This is a decent idea, I'll think on it. I really wanted to use a watcher instead of a doc because when I'm mafia and I want to kill someone and can't get the kill in, it's really frustrating. I figured with a watcher, even if the mafia member dies the following day, they at least eliminated a townie that they wanted to get rid of and then their teammates can kill the outed watcher the next day anyways. With a doc, there's just a missed kill and no other info for the mafia.

[BlackVoid]

What if I changed a goon to a neighborizer? That way mafia have double the opportunity to neighborize townies and get them to out their role in private if they are skilled enough at manipulation? They could catch the watcher that way and if one mafia member sucks at sweet-talking people in private, this reduces swing and allows two of them to try separately.

[BlackVoid]

Interaction wise does the Mafia neighbourize visit re; watcher? Does the friendly neighbor?

Forgot to answer this. I thought it was standard but yes, all of these roles "visit" their target and can be seen by the watcher. Do I need to make that public someplace in the rules?

[BlackVoid]

Oh, by the way this might be a bit controversial but once the game ends, I want everything to be released. I'm not going to do that thing mods do where they ask "if you want to retract anything from your mafia topic, you have 24 hours." Wholeheartedly disagree with giving anyone the option to do that. My opinion is that their raw unfiltered thoughts should be made public and I think it's better for the players and the game as a whole since it's all part of the game.

[BlackVoid]

Just curious, what's wrong with having two neighborizers? I've considered rolecop but I don't like how it's just a simple check and nothing skill-dependent (which is the same reason I prefer vigs over cops, there's really no wrong way to use a cop role). If you dislike double neighborizer, I'd rather leave it as a single neighborizer than add a rolecop.

[BlackVoid]

If it's a case of town "clearing" one neighborizer because the other flipped scum, that's really the fault of people making erroneous assumptions, isn't it?

[BlackVoid]

Yeah, I see the problem. So would you say:
1-shot weak friendly neighbor
2-shot vig
watcher
7 VTs
vs
neighborizer
2 goons

is balanced? If I'm using the wincon you posted previously, I'd also be accounting for the possibility of a draw. In other words, vig can't be endgamed in 3P if they have a shot left.

[BlackVoid]

Also, I'm mulling around the possibility of giving the vig one shot during the day and one during the night. Thoughts on normalcy/balance of this? Alternatively changing the vig to an "anytime" vig that can shoot anytime they want.

My logic is just that a dayvig is an incredibly fun role and would increase enjoyment of the game without detracting from balance which is basically the point of playing anyways.

[BlackVoid]

Do you recommend scrapping that idea or do you think it's possible to rebalance the game around a vig that has two shots anytime? If I can get a balanced, normal setup out with that role, it would be pretty fun I think.

[BlackVoid]

In this case, I'd swap the watcher for a 1-shot or 2-shot or add in an x-shot ninja for the scumteam (normally I wouldn't like them because they give false negatives to trackers but with a watcher, it'll be blatantly obvious there is one if someone dies with no one visiting them so there's not too much harm as far as confusing the town goes).

[BlackVoid]

Also, I would like to post a sample goon role PM in the OP as well just so town knows the scum wincon, the number of mafia, and that they have daytalk (the last two are mentioned in the rules but I'd rather not leave any room for confusion over the wincon.

[BlackVoid]

On second thoughts, scratch the dayvig idea. You're right. I think it makes it makes the setup more convoluted than the simple, elegant one I wanted.

What if I just posted the scum wincon in the OP instead of a goon PM?

[BlackVoid]

Here is an example of what I'm talking about.

[BlackVoid]

Okay, here's what the ruleset and final role PMs would look like (assuming Fire and Empking like the setup as well). I added a line about the private topics to the rules. Opening post is Post 10. Second post is below. Setup is in Post 35.

---

Deadlines

2 week days, 48 hour nights. 48 hours before prod, 24 hours before replacement.

Rules

Be nice to your fellow players. Don't break the game by artificial means. Vote using bold or vote tags. When the majority of the votes is on a person, he gets lynched. If you don't get a majority before the deadline, a no lynch occurs. Any private topics that are part of the game will be released unedited at endgame.

Public Info

Daytalk.

3 mafia

vs

10 town

. Mafia members can perform kill in addition to any role usage.

Spoiler: Sample VT Role PM

Vanilla Townie

Welcome [Player Name] to Mini Normal X. You are a Vanilla Townie.

Abilities:

• Your weapon is your vote, you have no night actions.

Win condition:

• You win when all mafia have been eliminated and there is at least one town player alive.

Confirm through PM by replying with your Role and Alignment. Game thread is here.

Town Win condition:

You win when all mafia have been eliminated and there is at least one town player alive.

Mafia Win condition:

You win when you have at least one member alive and the Town have been eliminated or nothing can prevent this from occurring.

---

Rest of the role PMs are here:

Spoiler: 1-shot Weak Friendly Neighbor

Town 1-shot Weak Friendly Neighbor

Welcome [Player Name] to Mini Normal X. You are a Town 1-shot Weak Friendly Neighbor.

Abilities:

• Once during the game at night, you can target another player and I'll mod-confirm you as Town to that player. If your target is mafia-aligned, you die.

Win condition:

• You win when all mafia have been eliminated and there is at least one town player alive.

Confirm through PM by replying with your Role and Alignment. Game thread is here.

Spoiler: 2-shot Vig

Town 2-shot Vigilante

Welcome [Player Name] to Mini Normal X. You are a Town 2-shot Vigilante.

Abilities:

• Twice during the game at night, you can target a player to kill.

Win condition:

• You win when all mafia have been eliminated and there is at least one town player alive.

Confirm through PM by replying with your Role and Alignment. Game thread is here.

Spoiler: Watcher

Town Watcher

Welcome [Player Name] to Mini Normal X. You are a Town Watcher.

Abilities:

• Each night you can target a player to watch and learn who visited them that night.

Win condition:

• You win when all mafia have been eliminated and there is at least one town player alive.

Confirm through PM by replying with your Role and Alignment. Game thread is here.

Spoiler: Goon

Mafia Goon

Welcome [Player Name] to Mini Normal X. You are a Mafia Goon.

Abilities:

• You share a Private Topic (Mafia PT) with your fellow mafia; (partner's names) which is always open.
  
• You have a factional night-kill meaning that each night one of you can night-kill a player.

Win condition:

• You win when you have at least one member alive and the Town have been eliminated or nothing can prevent this from occurring.

Confirm through PM replying with your Role and Alignment. Game thread is here.

Spoiler: Neighborizer

Mafia Neighborizer

Welcome [Player Name] to Mini Normal X. You are a Mafia Neighborizer.

Abilities:

• You share a Private Topic (Mafia PT) with your fellow mafia; (partner's names) which is always open.
  
• You have a factional night-kill meaning that each night one of you can night-kill a player.
  
• You have a Private Topic (Player's Neighborhood) which is always open. Each night, you can target a player. I will add them to your neighborhood topic at the end of that night.

Win condition:

• You win when you have at least one member alive and the Town have been eliminated or nothing can prevent this from occurring.

Confirm through PM by replying with your Role and Alignment. Game thread is here.

[BlackVoid]

@Regfan, would you be okay back-up modding this game? You don't have to do anything because I know I'll have enough time to stay on top of everything. I just think it would be helpful to have someone with access to the setup if I have any questions.

[BlackVoid]

Thanks!

[BlackVoid]

Probably should mention no talking about ongoing games, no breaking site rules, no breaking normal mafia rules too.

These are all part of the site rules and while I'd prefer not to clutter the OP with general site rules, I'll post a link to them if you like. So, the rules section would look like this:

Rules

Follow all site rules. Be nice to your fellow players. Don't break the game by artificial means. Vote using bold or vote tags. When the majority of the votes is on a person, he gets lynched. If you don't get a majority before the deadline, a no lynch occurs. Any private topics that are part of the game will be released unedited at endgame.

[BlackVoid]

Sure. Added a line to the public info section. Here's what the final version of the second post would look like.

Review took roughly twelve hours so not bad. How long does it usually take?

---

Deadlines

2 week days, 48 hour nights. 48 hours before prod, 24 hours before replacement.

Rules

Follow all site rules. Be nice to your fellow players. Don't break the game by artificial means. Vote using bold or vote tags. When the majority of the votes is on a person, he gets lynched. If you don't get a majority before the deadline, a no lynch occurs. Any private topics that are part of the game will be released unedited at endgame.

Public Info

Normal Game. Daytalk.

3 mafia

vs

10 town

. Mafia members can perform kill in addition to any role usage.

Spoiler: Sample VT Role PM

Vanilla Townie

Welcome [Player Name] to Mini Normal X. You are a Vanilla Townie.

Abilities:

• Your weapon is your vote, you have no night actions.

Win condition:

• You win when all mafia have been eliminated and there is at least one town player alive.

Confirm through PM by replying with your Role and Alignment. Game thread is here.

Town Win condition:

You win when all mafia have been eliminated and there is at least one town player alive.

Mafia Win condition:

You win when you have at least one member alive and the Town have been eliminated or nothing can prevent this from occurring.

[BlackVoid]

Totally forgot to mention back-up mod in the opening post. I'll mention the reviewers as well as that seems standard.

Opening Post:

Mini Normal ####: Chocolate Mafia

Mod: BlackVoid
Back-up Mod: Regfan
Reviewers: Empking, Firebringer, Regfan

Still Playing

1. Player 1
   
2. Player 2
   
3. Player 3
   
4. Player 4
   
5. Player 5
   
6. Player 6
   
7. Player 7
   
8. Player 8
   
9. Player 9
   
10. Player 10
    
11. Player 11
    
12. Player 12
    
13. Player 13

Eliminated

1. No one yet

Links

D1: Start

[BlackVoid]

Yeah. So, we're just waiting on Nexus then?