Mini Normal 1879 Bringer Mafia II [Game Over]

[I Am Innocent]

I misread no one visited my target for Frogger so I'm thinking scum has a ninja.
VOTE: I Am Innocent

Yeah I sometimes misread something like no result for frogger :-/

vote alisea

[I Am Innocent]

I'd like to ask that we not rush this lynch, and personally I'd like to read the whole thread and look for interactions between the two scum and living players.

[I Am Innocent]

Honestly I only read that as an attempt to look Town.

Ok, but in the chance you're wrong, you don't want my help in solving the game? Cause waiting a week to cast that vote might just help town get a win. Why, because 1) I'm town 2) I'm a pretty good late game player.

All I'm asking for is one week. So please unvote for now and listen to what I have to say. If the group doesn't like it, lynch me and when I flip town, trust that info in LyLo.

[I Am Innocent]

Will start a read thru today. Also want to capture everyone's votes too. Will share when I'm done.

[I Am Innocent]

Thanks all for your patience. Through page 14. Seeing two of the four people remaining as pretty townie based on the interactions with Sheep, and two who are coming off as scummy. Will continue the read through, and see how these develop. Shouldn't be that much longer.

But Lowell brings up something that came to my mind as well (with the understanding I haven't read all of D1/D2 yet). Why does ali make a 1 for 1 trade, which would then leave 1 scum alive. It is terrible play unless that last scum thinks they can survive two mislynches.

1- can someone explain to me what ali was doing? Or at least a plausible theory? would have liked yesterday to have lasted long enough to discuss it.

[I Am Innocent]

I literally said that earlier.

So did that affect your reads then?

I also said that scum would try to be more convincing and not lurker scum, because winning due to being anlurker is stupid and makes you look bad.

I agree with the first part of the sentence, but the latter is confusing. Scum usually don't care how they win, as long as they do. If by the second half you mean, scum are not going to want to lurk because lurking draws attention, then I agree.

[I Am Innocent]

Terata, what is your alt?

[I Am Innocent]

Yeah through post 505, I'm pretty sure it's Terata.

[I Am Innocent]

Same list as earlier but updated on some parts.

Strong Towns:

Frogg- solving, mindmeld, pressuring

Lil Uzi Vert- Believable towny reasoning for early thoughts about suspicion
Naomi- emotional towny outlash, ok interactions

Decently strong towns:

AJ- Towny confidence+compactness in his reads.

Lowell-Free-flowey and sounds like he's solving the times he's been here. He gives real-sounding thoughts that doesn't seem like a try to get townread to me.
gerry- isn't trying

Weak towns:

Hawk- beginning of #575's towny. On return he's not as focused on defense as he was early game, but is more solving forward. Though big bits of his reads still feels kinda like he's pushing sheep for being bad more than scummy. Which is a little worrying.
PenguinPower- he's confident, but need much more from him to lock in as a real read, it's mostly tone so far.

Nulls:

Gerry- im hyped to see you start solving

Null to scum:

Sheep- i have real problems reading this guy because of his poststyle/personality. i'd rather lynch elsewhere for now since i have worse feelings elsewhere, but i won't hard defend him if my townreads agree together on lynching him.

Scum leans:

ChaosOmega- Already said case, but i doubt a bit from his response to Frog's case, mostly the WIFOM bit, im weak to that sorta stuff sorry. Also wanted to solve with me after which is never bad.
ECMitchell- Don't feel a strong drive to solve. Also gutfeeling mostly.
WhemeStar*- Passive, apologetic, sheepy without admitting it and some wolfy wordings. CLAIMED. gonna decide how to deal with it

Yeah this read on Sheep makes me want to puke. The one on Penguin is not much better either.

[I Am Innocent]

Hey Terata, how come when I do a control F on your ISO with the word PENGUIN, I get 5 hits and they are all from reads lists or vote counts? No quoting of his posts, no mention of him elsewhere.

If the reads list I just quoted has the following blurbage next to Penguin "he's confident, but need much more from him to lock in as a real read, it's mostly tone so far." why not engage him so you could lock in a read on him?

[I Am Innocent]

but there will take a lot for me to not end up lynching Innocent/Fitz

Do you think Alisea does a 1 on 1 with Frogger when his last partner is my slot or Fitz's?

[I Am Innocent]

Thru post 625. The scummiest two players in regards to Sheep/Penguin interactions is Naomi/Fitz and Terata. I personally don't imagine Alisea pulling that gambit if Fitz is the last scum tho, and Terrata's interactions with flipped scum is putrid.

I'll continue my read, thanks for your patience everyone.

[I Am Innocent]

I haven't gotten to that one yet but the comment on penguin/alisea is interesting.

As for night actions vig, x shot vig, JOAT including a vig would be most likely concerns. Tho holding that for end of game would be risky so we need to just make the best lynch possible today and expect we'll have one more lynch in pocket if we're wrong.

Ps paranoid gun owner would be the other but with the number of dead town power I doubt we have to worry about that either.

[I Am Innocent]

Like my slot is the worse for no interactions but penguins slot gets a null for no interactions lol.

[I Am Innocent]

even though i generally agree with the fact that scum usually easier believes joke claims like that and goes with it, i still don't feel great about a Hawk lynch right now. I'm probably leaning towards a Wheme lynch after all, since i kinda agreed with Chaos when he said Scum will just be able to play around it probably if we leave Wheme alive.

i didn't really get a strong feeling on unnknown from the catch up, but i think the slot is town from lil, so i'll look into that more later days.

i wouldn't be against a Sheep lynch, but i think we got a bigger chance in hitting scum in Wheme.

VOTE: WhemeStar

I have more concrete reasons in my head for why i think Wheme's scummy, while EC is just a gutfeeling. And even if i were more certain i wouldn't get a following there anyway i think from what ive read. So i think this is my best vote

Yeah pretty terrible. L-2 vote after agonizing earlier if it was okay to lynch a claimed power role. This with EC and Sheep each having wagons as well...

[I Am Innocent]

Sheep.

Olive branch.

Who would you prefer that lynch between Lowell, Penguin, and chaos.

Hawk isn't happening and Wheme isn't happening without a CC

I need to look at Chaos too, so unless your case is compelling I'd rather lynch Sheep or Penguin today.

This bodes very well for your slot unknown.

[I Am Innocent]

355 he notes that my slot was oppertunistic but when he actually puts down reads he doesn't really have a solid read on me.
612 is him basicly saying that EC is coasting scum (I need to read EC's ISO), but the fact that he goes after EC over Garrybote (who is also coasting) is strange. Like it seems like he's trying to not bring attention to Garrybote.
Also I wanna add that he thinks the claim was real and then suddenly it's not? That's rather inconsistant.
I don't like him, I wanna kill it!
KILL! KILL! KILL!
VOTE: Lowell

Replace in vote near deadline bodes well for Lowell as well.

[I Am Innocent]

what do you think of Terata's play from yesterday?

I'll reread it after I'm done D1/D2 and let you know later.

[I Am Innocent]

Are you trying to explain to me that you don't think buddying is bad from perspective? Given the first thing you did was address him and establish him as "Town and ez win" you basically get yourself in a position where if he is scum then he can easily manipulate you in his favour.

On the other hand, if you are scum then you are trying to get him on your side if you believe he is a strong Town player. Both make sense from my perspective.

If you're Town, being super friendly in a game of mafia doesn't work out well.

This isn't about the buddying.
Also please don't tell me how to play the game and how to play as town.
Thanks

Not sure if Lowell's last post has me but this sequence of posts doesn't help with that!

[I Am Innocent]

I'm only on page 12 of my catch up read through. And the pages are getting blurry. Here's where I am at atm:

Suspect Sheep and Terata
Feel like Frogger, AJ are town.
Everyone else still in need of sorting out.
No interest in a Wheme lynch today for claim and not keen on those pushing him.
Of the current wagons I'd be most likely to support a Chaos one but I'd need to finish my catch up or ISO him first.

For now....
VOTE: Sheep

Largest wagon at 2 right now, this vote puts Sheep at 2 as well. Odd vote for a teammate to make, bodes well for Fitz.

[I Am Innocent]

Through 1075, hoping to be caught up tomorrow, Thursday at the latest. Hopefully Terata pops in and responds to some of these posts.

[I Am Innocent]

Are you trying to explain to me that you don't think buddying is bad from perspective? Given the first thing you did was address him and establish him as "Town and ez win" you basically get yourself in a position where if he is scum then he can easily manipulate you in his favour.

On the other hand, if you are scum then you are trying to get him on your side if you believe he is a strong Town player. Both make sense from my perspective.

If you're Town, being super friendly in a game of mafia doesn't work out well.

This isn't about the buddying.
Also please don't tell me how to play the game and how to play as town.
Thanks

Not sure if Lowell's last post has me but this sequence of posts doesn't help with that!

Explain this more.

The whole back and forth on that page felt off. Commens like "If you're Town, being super friendly in a game of mafia doesn't work out well" & "Also please don't tell me how to play the game and how to play as town" when one of the players flipped scum and the other is still alive could be scum coaching.

[I Am Innocent]

Sheep.

Olive branch.

Who would you prefer that lynch between Lowell, Penguin, and chaos.

Hawk isn't happening and Wheme isn't happening without a CC

I would do Lowell, Chaos, and Penguin in that order of preference.
Still ten pages back - welcome to all my games

I doubt Sheep would include both of his companions in this list, with a Goon #3 and his other partner #1.

[I Am Innocent]

im so confused by all these setup shenanigans and what that means to others alignments. Im probably just gonna sheep Frogg if he votes someone i think is a decent vote since i think he's both a veteran (good for setup shit) and town

1112 posts in the game and this is terribad.

Pretty sure scum is Terata >>>>>>> HavingFitz/Unknown >>>>>>> Lowell

Will continue my reread to see if this changes

[I Am Innocent]

My wagon has 0 resistance. Do you really think a scum would be lynched so easily

well, let's assume you're scum for a second. then there's only 2 scum outside of you. And i don't think most people would put themselves out there to hard defend you as a teammate with how much pressure there's been on you today. Tbh i think they would just bus or just assess where the flow is going.

So i don't think the fact that there's not much resistance to your lynch makes you town

Continues to push a power role lynch, with 0 push to the Sheep or Penguin/Alisea slots to this point anyway

[I Am Innocent]

still feel Lowell has a towny straight to the point tone and think he's just likely town lhf. And if im right on Lowell, i think there has to be scum in his vote right now. Sheep is the one i feel worst about individually there. So VOTE: Cooperative Sheep. i would trust you if you found a better cfd Frogg, but i just don't like the Lowell lynch today

And then there is.....

[I Am Innocent]

My wagon has 0 resistance. Do you really think a scum would be lynched so easily

well, let's assume you're scum for a second. then there's only 2 scum outside of you. And i don't think most people would put themselves out there to hard defend you as a teammate with how much pressure there's been on you today. Tbh i think they would just bus or just assess where the flow is going.

So i don't think the fact that there's not much resistance to your lynch makes you town

Continues to push a power role lynch, with 0 push to the Sheep or Penguin/Alisea slots to this point anyway

This isn't a fair argument. Most people did that.

As of this post, Here is the following votes on Sheep and Penguin/Alisea's slots:

Post Date Player Vote
23 2/3/2017 Fro99er Cooperative Sheep
28 2/3/2017 gerryoat Cooperative Sheep
29 2/3/2017 Hawk Cooperative Sheep
51 2/3/2017 Lowell Cooperative Sheep
52 2/3/2017 Unknown1234 (Lil) Cooperative Sheep
229 2/4/2017 Fro99er Cooperative Sheep
247 2/4/2017 Unknown1234 (Lil) Cooperative Sheep
346 2/6/2017 Alisae (Penguin) Cooperative Sheep
572 2/7/2017 Hawk Cooperative Sheep
650 2/9/2017 Fro99er Alisae (Penguin)
725 2/11/2017 Fro99er Cooperative Sheep
727 2/11/2017 WhemeStar Cooperative Sheep
790 2/12/2017 Fro99er Alisae (Penguin)
986 2/13/2017 Havingfitz (Naomi) Cooperative Sheep
1008 2/13/2017 gerryoat Alisae (Penguin)

Still feel that most people did that?

[I Am Innocent]

Someone thinks Lowell is Town?

Doubled up with your lack of activity recently is suspicious.

And Unknown's response.

[I Am Innocent]

You are quoting posts that happened half the game ago. Havingfitz did the exact same thing, and it's weird if you are implying my reads aren't allowed to change.

Well that's where I'm at in my read through (around post 1300 or so). This actually is a pretty key part of the game....where the wagon shifts back to Sheep. Not sure what to make of Terata being the one to restart that, or that you, who was just having back and forth with Sheep about 2 posts per game being lurking or not, are attacking his attacker. I believe that's called chainsawing

[I Am Innocent]

TBH, I'm not feeling as good about this lynch as I could be.

However, my gut is telling me to hammer.

I'll regret this later, maybe... stupid Gut.

VOTE: Sheep

What a weakass vote. Lowell...who I think you suspected...was just a vote behind Sheep. But instead you have such doubts about your hammer. Oh woe is you. smh

Does scum Fitz make this post to town Unknown after successfully hammering his teammate? Me doesn't see that.

[I Am Innocent]

Terata had zero reason to START a counterwagon to Lowell on her scumbuddy.

Terata is nearly conftown in my eyes

AKA Alisea, it's okay to 1 vs 1 against Frogger cause I can win it...

[I Am Innocent]

Okay now you just get roped.
Terata scum after starting a flashwagon on Sheep AROUND DEADLINE?
REALLY?
REALLY?

interesting.

[I Am Innocent]

Ftr i think everyone except unknown gets big points for voting sheep.

includes alisea interestingly enough

[I Am Innocent]

Terata had zero reason to START a counterwagon to Lowell on her scumbuddy.

Terata is nearly conftown in my eyes

AKA Alisea, it's okay to 1 vs 1 against Frogger cause I can win it...

Frogger was talking about Terata starting the Sheep wagon back up when Lowell was at L-2.

No I get it. But my theory is that Alisea's 1 for 1 trade indicates to me that the 3rd scum must be someone that could escape two mislynches after alisea was lynched. When the most townie person in the game D2 says "Terata is nearly conftown" that falls right in line with the type of player that would be okay with Alisea's 1 for 1 trade.

[I Am Innocent]

I hear ya, that is the one thing I can't figure out. I did notice after he made that vote, he disappeared for the rest of Day 1. Maybe he made that vote hoping to get town cred later, not realizing how quickly it took off.

Still the list of bad posts by him (and others regarding him) is bad:

Post 61 "I havent played with sheep b4 obv, but he strikes me as a person that would defend himself awkardly as either alignment, so while i think towns could be pinged by his weird wordings, i dont rly think its scummy."

Post 83 "i did reread Sheep, even if i still stand by he would over-defend himself awkwardly as either alignment, i think i still lean scum to the way he's not posted even 1 thing i could find towny" (At the bottom of his reads list, the only person he specifically commented on)

Post 107 (by Sheep) "I also am okay with Terata.
That said I would tend to expect one scum amongst Terata, Naomi, and Chaos - just due to not having a town read on him and having one on the other two, I'll call it as Chaos." (Flip flop on Terata, and classic small group with one scummate in it, but push a townie hardest within the group/Chaos)

Post 172 "i think you should adapt Frogg's approach in this case, Sheep. Show us you can focus on something else than the one you're tunneling with s*** thats boring to read. That will help both you and us more than reading whatever you're doing now, which is being salty at Frogg's annoying (to you) playstyle. Something scum and town could do, so we dont get any info." (weird interaction for someone you supposedly scum read)

Post 179 "(and frogg, just ignore him, you know its best for town, even though im not sure he does)" (Trying to get Frog to focus elsewhere other than Sheep)

Post 202 "Frog being dismissive and non-caring and then having this quick turn. I can't tell if it feels forced or not since i dont know the guy" (tries to discredit Frog who is pushing Sheep, also doesn't "know the guy" yet in Post 61 claimed to know all about Sheep despite never playing with him b4)

Post 379, he has a reads list with 5 town reads (including Penguin), and 4 null reads (including Sheep). His scum reads include 3 players. Pretty much how I'd expect scum Terata to act, 1 scum in each of his two biggest groups.

Post 487, making pre-excuses for his vote on Wheme "i really feel like this is not inexperienced town but inexperienced scum. but im gonna feel so bad if im wrong :/"

Post 505, New Reads List "Sheep- is trying but not being towny" What the heck does "he is trying" mean? He's doing a bad job at faking his towniness? Slip much???

Post 509, responding to Wheme's reads list "Frogg is pretty obvious, but Naomi im more interested in" (4 posts earlier Terata lists Naomi as his #3 town read)

Post 603, new reads list "PenguinPower- he's confident, but need much more from him to lock in as a real read, it's mostly tone so far." Yet never once engages this slot to further his read
Post 603 "Sheep- i have real problems reading this guy because of his poststyle/personality. i'd rather lynch elsewhere for now since i have worse feelings elsewhere, but i won't hard defend him if my townreads agree together on lynching him." Despite throwing him in the scum group, semi defends him "real problems reading this guy" and tries to deflect elsewhere.

Then there was the post by Unknown looking for connections. He list my slot as being the worst for having no interactions with Sheep, yet he put's Penguin's slot at null for the same reasons.

[I Am Innocent]

I'm caught up. I'm pretty sure it is Terata. If not Terata, probably Unknown. Lowell is for sure town.

[I Am Innocent]

Honestly, Frogger had so much confidence in his read on Alisae. Given Frogger was targeted by Alisae in attempt to get rid of a leader, it is obvious that this reads must have been mostly accurate otherwise he would have been leading incorrect lynches. It makes me much more confident in Terata.

Why not have ECM or HavingFitz in that case do the fake claim? It doesn't make sense to have Alisea do it unless Alisea's partner was more town read than Alisea?

Who fits that bill. Not me or Fitz. Terata is #1. Followed by Lowell and prob you. Fitz and me, tho, nope, try again.

[I Am Innocent]

I don't like how both people who questioned me are your Town-reads. Seems to conveniently easy to just pick me off and then put a strong case against a relatively harder lynch.

I'm ready to lynch Terata, what are you talking about?!?!?

[I Am Innocent]

Given EC was entirely inactive actually makes more sense for Ali to do it. Leaves less options and a replace out leaves for a fresh start. Could be a matter of activity and the fact that very few people trusted EC.

You just went sassy which I find funny. As if you are going completely aggressive on me for suspecting you.

Did you miss the part where ECM was at L-1 Day 2. Including Alisea, who pushed hard when people hopped off that wagon. And that was with 2 people unvoting when it got to L-1.

ECM was universally scum read. Try again.

[I Am Innocent]

Given EC was entirely inactive actually makes more sense for Ali to do it. Leaves less options and a replace out leaves for a fresh start. Could be a matter of activity and the fact that very few people trusted EC.

You just went sassy which I find funny. As if you are going completely aggressive on me for suspecting you.

Did you miss the part where ECM was at L-1 Day 2. Including Alisea, who pushed hard when people hopped off that wagon. And that was with 2 people unvoting when it got to L-1.

ECM was universally scum read. Try again.

[I Am Innocent]

That's my point. You can spend your time getting miss lynch #1 off if you're scum with your strongest case. The other two have already gladly shown support for my lynch.

And wouldn't scum IAI be smart to take it them (assuming your town) and then go 1 vs 1 with Fitz tomorrow.

Could it be I'm really town and really trying to figure this out. Forget ECM, trust me I read that crap, and I can't change his play. I've played with him before, he is a pretty crappy player. But if I'm right about Terata, ECM did hit on 2 of the 3 scum, though not really pushing either of them.

I'm town. My play is town. You think that catchup is faked? You don't know I spent the last two days tracking ever vote and unvote:

Day 1
Post Date Player Vote Unvote
4 2/3/2017 Fro99er gerryoat
5 2/3/2017 WhemeStar Unknown1234 (Lil)
7 2/3/2017 AJ The Epic WhemeStar
10 2/3/2017 Cooperative Sheep WhemeStar
11 2/3/2017 Fro99er gerryoat
11 2/3/2017 Fro99er WhemeStar
13 2/3/2017 Lowell Unknown1234 (Lil)
23 2/3/2017 Fro99er WhemeStar
23 2/3/2017 Fro99er Cooperative Sheep
28 2/3/2017 gerryoat Cooperative Sheep
29 2/3/2017 Hawk Cooperative Sheep
51 2/3/2017 Lowell Unknown1234 (Lil)
51 2/3/2017 Lowell Cooperative Sheep
52 2/3/2017 Unknown1234 (Lil) Cooperative Sheep
54 2/3/2017 ChaosOmega WhemeStar
62 2/3/2017 Terata Unknown1234 (Lil)
75 2/4/2017 Hawk Cooperative Sheep
75 2/4/2017 Hawk Unknown1234 (Lil)
117 2/4/2017 Unknown1234 (Lil) Cooperative Sheep
117 2/4/2017 Unknown1234 (Lil) gerryoat
158 2/4/2017 Cooperative Sheep WhemeStar
158 2/4/2017 Cooperative Sheep Fro99er
213 2/4/2017 AJ The Epic WhemeStar
213 2/4/2017 AJ The Epic Hawk
222 2/4/2017 Fro99er Cooperative Sheep
222 2/4/2017 Fro99er Hawk
223 2/4/2017 Cooperative Sheep Fro99er
223 2/4/2017 Cooperative Sheep Hawk
229 2/4/2017 Fro99er Hawk
229 2/4/2017 Fro99er Cooperative Sheep
233 2/4/2017 WhemeStar Unknown1234 (Lil)
233 2/4/2017 WhemeStar Hawk
247 2/4/2017 Unknown1234 (Lil) gerryoat
247 2/4/2017 Unknown1234 (Lil) Cooperative Sheep
253 2/5/2017 gerryoat Cooperative Sheep
284 2/5/2017 Terata Unknown1234 (Lil)
284 2/5/2017 Terata ChaosOmega
324 2/5/2017 I am Innocent (ny/ECM) WhemeStar
346 2/6/2017 Alisae (Penguin) Cooperative Sheep
355 2/6/2017 Lowell Cooperative Sheep
355 2/6/2017 Lowell ChaosOmega
359 2/6/2017 Fro99er Cooperative Sheep
359 2/6/2017 Fro99er ChaosOmega
391 2/6/2017 Havingfitz (Naomi) Lowell
405 2/6/2017 Fro99er ChaosOmega
429 2/6/2017 Fro99er Lowell
458 2/6/2017 WhemeStar Hawk
458 2/6/2017 WhemeStar Lowell
460 2/6/2017 Terata ChaosOmega
460 2/6/2017 Terata WhemeStar
461 2/6/2017 Fro99er Lowell
461 2/6/2017 Fro99er WhemeStar
527 2/7/2017 Unknown1234 (Lil) Cooperative Sheep
527 2/7/2017 Unknown1234 (Lil) gerryoat
540 2/7/2017 Alisae (Penguin) Cooperative Sheep
540 2/7/2017 Alisae (Penguin) WhemeStar
545 2/7/2017 Fro99er WhemeStar
552 2/7/2017 Fro99er WhemeStar
572 2/7/2017 Hawk Unknown1234 (Lil)
572 2/7/2017 Hawk Cooperative Sheep
601 2/8/2017 Terata WhemeStar
605 2/8/2017 Terata I am Innocent (ny/ECM)
612 2/8/2017 Lowell ChaosOmega
612 2/8/2017 Lowell I am Innocent (ny/ECM)
613 2/8/2017 Fro99er WhemeStar
613 2/8/2017 Fro99er I am Innocent (ny/ECM)
628 2/8/2017 AJ The Epic Hawk
628 2/8/2017 AJ The Epic Lowell
650 2/9/2017 Fro99er I am Innocent (ny/ECM)
650 2/9/2017 Fro99er Alisae (Penguin)
677 2/10/2017 Unknown1234 (Lil) gerryoat
677 2/10/2017 Unknown1234 (Lil) WhemeStar
684 2/10/2017 Havingfitz (Naomi) Lowell
725 2/11/2017 Fro99er Alisae (Penguin)
725 2/11/2017 Fro99er Cooperative Sheep
727 2/11/2017 WhemeStar Lowell
727 2/11/2017 WhemeStar Cooperative Sheep
780 2/12/2017 Fro99er Cooperative Sheep
780 2/12/2017 Fro99er Hawk
782 2/12/2017 Terata I am Innocent (ny/ECM)
782 2/12/2017 Terata WhemeStar
790 2/12/2017 Fro99er Hawk
790 2/12/2017 Fro99er Alisae (Penguin)
816 2/12/2017 I am Innocent (ny/ECM) WhemeStar
816 2/12/2017 I am Innocent (ny/ECM) Lowell
854 2/12/2017 Alisae (Penguin) WhemeStar
880 2/12/2017 Fro99er Alisae (Penguin)
883 2/12/2017 Alisae (Penguin) Lowell
892 2/12/2017 Unknown1234 (Lil) WhemeStar
944 2/12/2017 Fro99er ChaosOmega
950 2/12/2017 Alisae (Penguin) Lowell
950 2/12/2017 Alisae (Penguin) ChaosOmega
953 2/12/2017 WhemeStar Cooperative Sheep
953 2/12/2017 WhemeStar ChaosOmega
964 2/12/2017 Alisae (Penguin) ChaosOmega
964 2/12/2017 Alisae (Penguin) gerryoat
986 2/13/2017 Havingfitz (Naomi) Cooperative Sheep
1003 2/13/2017 Hawk Cooperative Sheep
1003 2/13/2017 Hawk ChaosOmega
1008 2/13/2017 gerryoat Alisae (Penguin)
1023 2/13/2017 Hawk ChaosOmega
1023 2/13/2017 Hawk gerryoat
1040 2/13/2017 Fro99er ChaosOmega
1040 2/13/2017 Fro99er WhemeStar
1074 2/13/2017 Alisae (Penguin) gerryoat
1074 2/13/2017 Alisae (Penguin) WhemeStar
1076 2/13/2017 I am Innocent (ny/ECM) Lowell
1076 2/13/2017 I am Innocent (ny/ECM) WhemeStar
1089 2/13/2017 Fro99er WhemeStar
1107 2/13/2017 Hawk gerryoat
1107 2/13/2017 Hawk WhemeStar
1129 2/14/2017 Alisae (Penguin) WhemeStar
1138 2/14/2017 Unknown1234 (Lil) Havingfitz (Naomi)
1181 2/14/2017 Lowell I am Innocent (ny/ECM)
1181 2/14/2017 Lowell Havingfitz (Naomi)
1183 2/14/2017 Cooperative Sheep Hawk
1183 2/14/2017 Cooperative Sheep Lowell
1185 2/14/2017 Havingfitz (Naomi) Cooperative Sheep
1185 2/14/2017 Havingfitz (Naomi) Lowell
1219 2/14/2017 Fro99er ChaosOmega
1263 2/14/2017 Hawk WhemeStar
1263 2/14/2017 Hawk Lowell
1277 2/14/2017 Fro99er ChaosOmega
1277 2/14/2017 Fro99er Lowell
1300 2/14/2017 Terata WhemeStar
1300 2/14/2017 Terata Cooperative Sheep
1320 2/14/2017 Fro99er Lowell
1320 2/14/2017 Fro99er Cooperative Sheep
1322 2/14/2017 Hawk Lowell
1322 2/14/2017 Hawk Cooperative Sheep
1324 2/14/2017 Alisae (Penguin) Cooperative Sheep
1352 2/14/2017 WhemeStar ChaosOmega
1352 2/14/2017 WhemeStar Cooperative Sheep
1354 2/14/2017 I am Innocent (ny/ECM) WhemeStar
1354 2/14/2017 I am Innocent (ny/ECM) Lowell
1360 2/15/2017 Lowell Havingfitz (Naomi)
1360 2/15/2017 Lowell Cooperative Sheep
1420 2/15/2017 ChaosOmega WhemeStar
1420 2/15/2017 ChaosOmega Lowell
1430 2/15/2017 Unknown1234 (Lil) Havingfitz (Naomi)
1430 2/15/2017 Unknown1234 (Lil) Cooperative Sheep

Day 2
Post Date Player Vote Unvote
1487 2/17/2017 ChaosOmega I am Innocent (ny/ECM)
1530 2/17/2017 I am Innocent (ny/ECM) WhemeStar
1536 2/17/2017 Alisae (Penguin) gerryoat
1538 2/17/2017 Fro99er I am Innocent (ny/ECM)
1563 2/17/2017 Alisae (Penguin) gerryoat
1563 2/17/2017 Alisae (Penguin) I am Innocent (ny/ECM)
1580 2/18/2017 WhemeStar I am Innocent (ny/ECM)
1646 2/19/2017 AJ The Epic ChaosOmega
1667 2/21/2017 Lowell I am Innocent (ny/ECM)
1670 2/21/2017 Lowell I am Innocent (ny/ECM)
1687 2/22/2017 Havingfitz (Naomi) I am Innocent (ny/ECM)
1689 2/22/2017 Fro99er I am Innocent (ny/ECM)
1708 2/22/2017 WhemeStar I am Innocent (ny/ECM)
1708 2/22/2017 WhemeStar ChaosOmega
1714 2/23/2017 Lowell ChaosOmega
1737 2/24/2017 ChaosOmega I am Innocent (ny/ECM)
1737 2/24/2017 ChaosOmega WhemeStar
1747 2/24/2017 Alisae (Penguin) I am Innocent (ny/ECM)
1751 2/25/2017 Alisae (Penguin) ChaosOmega
1752 2/25/2017 Unknown1234 (Lil) ChaosOmega
1754 2/25/2017 Fro99er ChaosOmega

You think that's scum IAI faking it up?

[I Am Innocent]

You didn't read what I said if that's your response. I never said EC was town-read I said nobody would believe them.

Ok I missed that, my apologies. Tho I strongly disagree, fake claim is a fake claim, I've played on this site long enough to tell you nearly 100% of the time people go with the fake claim in a non LyLo/MyLo situation.

[I Am Innocent]

FYI, you said "try again" implying you think I'm purposely trying to make you look scummy or discredit you. If you thought Terata was scum, what need would you have to say that.

Because as good as I am, I'm not perfect. Could I be wrong on Terata, sure, I've been wrong before. I'm on wrong on him, based on Alisea's 1vs1 and your play on this page, could you be the likeliest #2, probably. So no, I won't take these shots lying down, esp if there is mafia agenda behind it.

[I Am Innocent]

You can't act like that is AI. Specific people will put lots of effort into catch ups, but I don't know you at all so I can't say that you wouldn't do this as scum. Without meta that point is invalid.

Sure I can. Isn't scumhunting AI? Isn't that all about effort? Trying to see if someone is faking it vs. really doing it. I can give you my scum meta, last two games I replaced out because I lurked it out as scum. Not interested, unfortunately I prefer finding scum, hence the effort. If you can't see the effort and thought I was just saving all that for my back pocket to use at said moment, then you have a long way to go (or are scum).

[I Am Innocent]

I've played with Fitz before, multiple times. I liked his vote in 986, no need to vote Sheep at that point. Also I'm putting a lot of stock in the Alisea gambit, doesn't make sense for Alisea to do that instead of Fitz or with Fitz as a partner.

The one thing I don't like is that if I'm wrong about Terata, Fitz is the other slot from that early Sheep's read list I pointed out:

Post 107 (by Sheep) "I also am okay with Terata.
That said I would tend to expect one scum amongst Terata, Naomi, and Chaos - just due to not having a town read on him and having one on the other two, I'll call it as Chaos." (Flip flop on Terata, and classic small group with one scummate in it, but push a townie hardest within the group/Chaos)

Once again, I'm pretty sure it's Terata. If I'm wrong, chances are town loses because I will likely be the next lynch (or maybe first to go with a promise Terata is lynched in LyLo).

If I'm right about Fitz and Lowell, and we can form a town block, auto win. Once again, another if, but both I feel confident about.

[I Am Innocent]

mod, I'm pretty sure Terata is in prod range. how about it

[I Am Innocent]

vote terata

If the group goes with me, I want a promise that terata is lynched in LyLo when I flip green. Time for others to talk. I'll be happy to answer any questions tho

[I Am Innocent]

Oh, here's my last two scum games. First was me, second was a hydra with Nero which I never even posted:

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=69284

viewtopic.php?f=56&t=67645

[I Am Innocent]

I thought Terata was town because they were the only person who was actually able to identify me as Town. But I guess It could just be more buddying.

Why do you think it's me over Havingfitz? And can you answer the question about Havinfitz's ISO?

Both had good points and bad points (unlike Lowell who was almost all good points and Terata almost all bad points). The tiebreaker was the Alisea gambit, doesn't add up for me with Fitz as the last partner. Your slot, I can at least see that.

What question about Fitz's ISO?

[I Am Innocent]

Well, it looks like you did get replaced out of that one game. That's a really bad meta to have though.

Yeah replaced out cause I flaked out lol.

[I Am Innocent]

Terata voted really early on the sheep train. What do you think about that?

I addressed that in 2126 "I hear ya, that is the one thing I can't figure out. I did notice after he made that vote, he disappeared for the rest of Day 1. Maybe he made that vote hoping to get town cred later, not realizing how quickly it took off."

It's the only thing, ONLY thing positive Terata did. Unless you count buddying up to frog when the whole world was against him during the Alisea claim, but one could also point out that Terata was the only person that knew Frog was telling the truth...

[I Am Innocent]

Honestly, I can't see a way to convince anyone of Havingfitz being the last scum. If Terata is Town then Town will 99% lose. I'll vote when we are ready to end day.

Then hope I'm right. I'm on a hot streak, so chances are looking good, esp in light of Terata's lurking.

Look at my last town game...great quote by Black Void post game:

"The scumteam here were demolished by the wrecking ball that was IAI."

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=70173&start=975

[I Am Innocent]

Towns:

Frogg

Lowell
gerry

Scum:

Sheep
Hawk

Lil Uzi Vert

i did reread Sheep, even if i still stand by he would over-defend himself awkwardly as either alignment, i think i still lean scum to the way he's not posted even 1 thing i could find towny

It doesn't really make sense to defend someone and scum-read them at the same time.

That's what I'm saying, he did that ALL DAY ONE!!! And his first vote on Sheep, was his only vote on sheep. The one that got him all his town cred.

[I Am Innocent]

i think you should adapt Frogg's approach in this case, Sheep. Show us you can focus on something else than the one you're tunneling with shit thats boring to read. That will help both you and us more than reading whatever you're doing now, which is being salty at Frogg's annoying (to you) playstyle. Something scum and town could do, so we dont get any info.

Given Sheep was scum and there's no Day chat, this just looks like Coaching.

Post one says Mafia has day chat.

[I Am Innocent]

Unknown (and possibly terata) are only people I can think of who would benefit from this. <> If not unknown, then I'm leaning IaI based on these last few pages.

Why are you so resistant to Terata?

[I Am Innocent]

I just honestly feel if Lowell, Fitz, and I stick together, we win. If I'm wrong about one of those two, I'll personally take full responsibility for the loss. And if that was the case, I'm sure Frogger will let me have it with his "don't ever vote out terata" postgame.

If the choices are Unknown today, and if Unknown flips town, than me, I'd rather you lynch me first so Lowell/Fitz, whoever survives the night can trust my analysis and seriously consider Terata in LyLo. Make Terata and Unknown cross vote, then you make the final call.

I've done about all I can do to this point. I don't see my reads changing.

[I Am Innocent]

mod, I'm pretty sure Terata is in prod range. how about it

Can I request a prod on the mod too???

[I Am Innocent]

i think you should adapt Frogg's approach in this case, Sheep. Show us you can focus on something else than the one you're tunneling with shit thats boring to read. That will help both you and us more than reading whatever you're doing now, which is being salty at Frogg's annoying (to you) playstyle. Something scum and town could do, so we dont get any info.

Given Sheep was scum and there's no Day chat

, this just looks like Coaching.

Post one says Mafia has day chat.

Honestly, I'm not playing dumb I'm actually quite unintelligent when finding things on this site. I hate catch up so I sometimes skip over things.

Where are the setup roles too?

The fact scum has day chat has been mentioned several times in this game. Including this:

2.) When Chaos is around, he interacts with Wheme the most which makes me believe that they aren't on the same team because they wouldn't need to discuss as much

with the day chat

that they'd have.

Unknown, any comments on this?

[I Am Innocent]

Fitz, thanks for waiting until Terata responds/votes. I'd appreciate it if you wait until that happens and we can discuss.

[I Am Innocent]

Also, where did Terata lead a counter train on you? How close were you to dying?

1.) I don't remember her leading that train at all.

2.) if you were about to be lynched, I could see it as distancing if she thought that you were a guaranteed lynch.

Why would Terata start a scum wagon on Sheep when she just could have supported

the L-2 Lowell wagon

or lurk?

1) Not sure how much leading she did but she got the ball rolling.

2) possibly...

1) And right before that Terata parked a vote on me and nothing happened.

People keep acting like Terata was like, sheep is so scummy, vote sheep! That was actually frogger....terata spent most of the day semi-defending sheep.

[I Am Innocent]

Here's my own thoughts i took during the iso. I started writing down the post numbers half way through and it's super messy, but sry i don't have the energy to correct it all. Ask me if you're confused

Spoiler:

Gerry: #35 feels weirdly phrased in a way i could see being partners. "You would have preferred I denied something without even knowing what it was? " +

Chaos: " I'll remind people that I've had issues with Chaos for some time now, just in case anyone wants to have a complaint about me hopping on that wagon if it catches much more steam " "I'm still fine calling Chaos scum though, I just got there on the WK road." "we're discussing a scumread on Chaos." he seems to want to make it VERY clear he's scumreading Chaos and he seems very self-aware of what he's doing. So even though i think it would usually look good for Choas it gives me distancy vibes. He also had basically 2 scum reads in Hawk/Chaos but put all real pressure on Hawk and only mentioned Chaos in the passing. And later when the pressure on Lowell started he STILL kept Chaos as his second lynch and slipped in Lowell as first without really mentioning him much earlier.

Wheme: #632 really feels like spew. like hard spew. And with how sheep talked early about scum Whiteknighting, i wouldn't be suprised if that's a big part of his play.

EC: Just no interactions

Lowell: towntown "So you would have been okay with the pressure on WhemeStar if you'd thought of it before me? Is that a habit that will carry through the game? Feels like it would make you hard to cooperate with if town." He's using "@Lowell" several times for meh questions where it doesn't really fit in. Dunno what to make of that. #1291:i feel like scum often wants to avoid being seen as having tmi when talking about pre-flips. Maybe this read is dumb, but im giving lowell townpoints for sheep's post. Also the way Lowell jumped to sheep's top lynch towards the end and being the CW obviously looks good for Lowell

Penguin/Alisae: Basically no interactions, but Penguin didn't play and Alisae subbed in towards the end, so i won't read into that.

AJ: #223: "but I'll sheep AJ for the moment." a bit blatant if partners, but idk. "If you have suggestions for future games I'd love to hear them.." this doesn't strike me as a tone that's designed to please AJ, like it's been at other times to others. He's more lowkey salty for AJ pushing him, which could be because AJ was accusing a partner.

Naomi/HavingFitz: "That's an interesting way to look at it - I don't think I can fully come with you on it" "Why would you say there is red between us three when everything you've said on the matter has me and Terata as green. Isn't that an explicit contradiction."- Naomi. ++ #321 also +

Lil/unknown: "Avoiding LilUzi because he's currently less active." "You then attack Uzi (one of my attackers)" hm. The part in #321 where he responds to Lil's vote doesn't feel at all like a partner interactions. #1222 "I feel safe in the knowledge

you'll

have a lot of people to lynch before I'm the worst lurker " i think sheep's phrasing here is super spew-y

Frogg: towntown. Scum doesn't use 70% of their posts responding/trying to justify his own actions to a partner. thats a partner interaction approximately 0 % of the time.

interesting post connected to several: #1206: TMI/spew? or defending a partner in the claims?

I've iso'd Sheep to look for spew more than partner interaction, because they're much harder to differentiate. +++ = lock clear ++ = looks good, + = looks slightly good. - = something pinged me

+++: Frogg
++: Naomi/fitz, Lil/unknown, Wheme, Lowell
+: Gerry

- (ordered worst first): EC, Chaos, AJ

Terata what do you think about your comments here regarding penguin/aliseas slot? Would you agree you are defending them here? Why would you dismiss no interactions with sheep for them but give my slot the worst score for doing the same thing?

Would you agree that is how scum might act with their partner?

[I Am Innocent]

I'm never gonna vote Lowell this game, ever. The reason i caught sheep was because i thought Lowell felt town and i went looking for scum on that Wagon and sheep was the least towny one. I just don't ever see things playing out like they did if Lowell's scum.

Sorry I don't buy this. At the point you vote Sheep, EIGHT of the TWELVE people not named Lowell voted Lowell at some point in this game. So either:

1) You're town reading abilities are so strong that you are in the top third of the class or
2) You're scum that knew Lowell was town and didn't want to join a partner on his wagon, so threw a vanity vote at your partner in hopes for town cred later (for staying off Lowell and if Sheep flipped, being on him), and disappeared when his wagon took off.

I know which one I think is more likely.

PS - you're buddying "I'm never gonna vote Lowell this game, ever" after it is established that nobody else is interested in voting him/aka he's not a viable wagon is noted.

And i think Unknowns way of handling this day has felt the towniest. Others have only been making cases made to convince others to lynch specific people while unknown has actually tried to have a conversation with people and evaluating them.

Get out of here that the key to this day is interactions among living players. The key to this game is Day 1 and Day 2, that is where the evidence is. Beyond that, there isn't much, other than why the heck did Alisea pull a 1 for 1 gambit with only 1 remaining teammate.

So yes, I am going to go back to the evidence from Day 1 to Day 2, to see how people interacted with Sheep and Penguin/Alisea, and vice versa. Outside of your half hearted vote to start a wagon on sheep, you did ZERO towny stuff D1 and D2. None, notta. But you sure scummed it up in hindsight. The clues are there, if people just look at it.

Ok, so the biggest reason (from what i've precieved) to why IAI says im scum is that "Alisae wouldn't have made the fakeclaim if the partner is in the back-then-suspects". This is terrible logic. Scum KNOWS people evaluate their play after they die, so saying that Alisae and her partner didn't even think about how his claim would look after the flip is just beyond bad. Since scum would know for sure this logic would be taken up, if not by themselves (if you're scum) it will be taken up by the town (if someone else is the last scum). Right now im leaning SLIGHTLY more towards fitz, simply because you have focused so little on preparing the second mislynch after me if you're scum, and you're gonna look pretty bad when i flip town. This is wifom too of course and you could totally be scum doing this, but the way you swapped your second suspect in the span of 1 page felt like a move that scum perhaps wouldn't make if they're focused on getting me lynched.

Did you even read my posts? I put a whole case with every scummy post you made D1 and D2. And guess what, there is A LOT!

Did you also read that the Alisea gambit didn't point to you, but to you, Unknown, and Lowell. Lowell though, when looking at interactions with scum, comes out looking nearly confirmed town. Unknown/Lil, had just as many good posts as bad. In one post Unknown pushed both Sheep and Penguin, and only Sheep and Penguin. How often does scum do this....not very often.

You never pushed them. Outside of that vote, which you then disappeared from, you did nothing. Even when you put Sheep in your scummy pile, you then defended him saying "he's trying"

WHAT DOES IT MEAN WHEN A SCUM READ OF YOURS IS TRYING???

Because if that isn't defense of a scummate you are leaning scum read on, then I don't what it is.

[I Am Innocent]

And if i wpould bus sheep, why the fk would i have such a lame ass reason as that and get less cred than if i listed loads of scummy stuff i saw sheep do. If im scum and know sheep is scum, then i have loads of such reason to just list up that i actuslly believe in because i know it to be true.

It just makes no sense for me to be like "eh i think lowell is town and i think there's a scum in the voters so im voting sheep" instead of "SHEEP IS SCUMMY BECAUSE X, Y AND Z" and get cred.

AIA also using this as a point against me is ??

I already explained this. Your vote before Sheep was a solo vote on my slot, who nobody followed you on. Scum Terata may have thought, well let me throw a vote on Sheep next which will benefit me later, expecting more of the same (nobody following you). And then there is the town cred from not jumping on Lowell's wagon, if he ended up being the lynch and he is town like I think.

Would explain why you disappeared the rest of D1...if you had shown up, you would have had to push the Sheep wagon you started or give yourself away.

[I Am Innocent]

still feel Lowell has a towny straight to the point tone and think he's just likely town lhf. And if im right on Lowell, i think there has to be scum in his vote right now. Sheep is the one i feel worst about individually there. So VOTE: Cooperative Sheep. i would trust you if you found a better cfd Frogg, but i just don't like the Lowell lynch today

And then there is.....

im confused by this post though if IAI is town. Why would one of the main points to why he might be wrong in his read on me be weirded out smiley and he has absolutely no thoughts on it? I would expect either some kind of possible explanation so it fits in his world like "oh but he voted his partner because x" or a comment adding some doubt to his read, like "there's at least 1 point in his favour", but the comment just quotes my post and subtly shades it without giving any thoughts.

JUST SO WEIRD

Up until that post, I had ZERO GOOD INTERACTION POSTS from you tied to the two flip scum. ZERO!

Then I read that, which gave me pause for a minute. I admit it is a weird thing for scum to do, I would have been 95% confident you were scum without that post. Probably dropped to 75% or 80% after that.

Still pretty sure it is you. Especially since after that vote and immediate subsequent post, you disappeared for the rest of the day.

[I Am Innocent]

Here's my own thoughts i took during the iso. I started writing down the post numbers half way through and it's super messy, but sry i don't have the energy to correct it all. Ask me if you're confused

Spoiler:

Gerry: #35 feels weirdly phrased in a way i could see being partners. "You would have preferred I denied something without even knowing what it was? " +

Chaos: " I'll remind people that I've had issues with Chaos for some time now, just in case anyone wants to have a complaint about me hopping on that wagon if it catches much more steam " "I'm still fine calling Chaos scum though, I just got there on the WK road." "we're discussing a scumread on Chaos." he seems to want to make it VERY clear he's scumreading Chaos and he seems very self-aware of what he's doing. So even though i think it would usually look good for Choas it gives me distancy vibes. He also had basically 2 scum reads in Hawk/Chaos but put all real pressure on Hawk and only mentioned Chaos in the passing. And later when the pressure on Lowell started he STILL kept Chaos as his second lynch and slipped in Lowell as first without really mentioning him much earlier.

Wheme: #632 really feels like spew. like hard spew. And with how sheep talked early about scum Whiteknighting, i wouldn't be suprised if that's a big part of his play.

EC: Just no interactions

Lowell: towntown "So you would have been okay with the pressure on WhemeStar if you'd thought of it before me? Is that a habit that will carry through the game? Feels like it would make you hard to cooperate with if town." He's using "@Lowell" several times for meh questions where it doesn't really fit in. Dunno what to make of that. #1291:i feel like scum often wants to avoid being seen as having tmi when talking about pre-flips. Maybe this read is dumb, but im giving lowell townpoints for sheep's post. Also the way Lowell jumped to sheep's top lynch towards the end and being the CW obviously looks good for Lowell

Penguin/Alisae: Basically no interactions, but Penguin didn't play and Alisae subbed in towards the end, so i won't read into that.

AJ: #223: "but I'll sheep AJ for the moment." a bit blatant if partners, but idk. "If you have suggestions for future games I'd love to hear them.." this doesn't strike me as a tone that's designed to please AJ, like it's been at other times to others. He's more lowkey salty for AJ pushing him, which could be because AJ was accusing a partner.

Naomi/HavingFitz: "That's an interesting way to look at it - I don't think I can fully come with you on it" "Why would you say there is red between us three when everything you've said on the matter has me and Terata as green. Isn't that an explicit contradiction."- Naomi. ++ #321 also +

Lil/unknown: "Avoiding LilUzi because he's currently less active." "You then attack Uzi (one of my attackers)" hm. The part in #321 where he responds to Lil's vote doesn't feel at all like a partner interactions. #1222 "I feel safe in the knowledge

you'll

have a lot of people to lynch before I'm the worst lurker " i think sheep's phrasing here is super spew-y

Frogg: towntown. Scum doesn't use 70% of their posts responding/trying to justify his own actions to a partner. thats a partner interaction approximately 0 % of the time.

interesting post connected to several: #1206: TMI/spew? or defending a partner in the claims?

I've iso'd Sheep to look for spew more than partner interaction, because they're much harder to differentiate. +++ = lock clear ++ = looks good, + = looks slightly good. - = something pinged me

+++: Frogg
++: Naomi/fitz, Lil/unknown, Wheme, Lowell
+: Gerry

- (ordered worst first): EC, Chaos, AJ

Terata what do you think about your comments here regarding penguin/aliseas slot? Would you agree you are defending them here? Why would you dismiss no interactions with sheep for them but give my slot the worst score for doing the same thing?

Would you agree that is how scum might act with their partner?

It's simple. EC was in the thread a lot and actually played the game. Sheep did too. So it would've made sense for it to be at least some discussion both were involved in. But Penguin literally just popped in and didn't interact with anyone, so it's not weird he and penguin didn't have any discussion.

And to your second question. Are you refering to my initial read, where i gave "-" points for having no interactions? Then yes, i think scum usually have problems interacting back and forth with one another.

If you're refering to my own post and if i would deal with my reads as i did if i were scum with PP/Ali, then it's a terribly leading question, and yes i probably would since the reason for my read i made this game would make sense if i were scum aswell.

Alisea had over 100 posts in the game Day 1 before Sheep was hammered. That is more than Lowell still has this whole game. More than

ECM

had this whole game, Chaos, Hawk, AJ, even

Sheep

himself. (Both underlines go against your reason above).

But you dismiss it as "Alisae subbed in towards the end, so i won't read into that"

It's crap, it was deflection, and the only person that would benefit from deflecting attention to Alisea's slot would be Alisea's partner. Is that "leading" enough for you?

[I Am Innocent]

actually, now i remember fitz's reaction to the sheep lynch after it was hammered and b4 the flip was pretty towny. i swapped again, im probably leaning towards it being you slightly. But go ahead and ask anyway, since you might be town

How convenient you just remembered that now. Now you can go after me!!!

Must have realized it could be unknown instead of fitz today, and didn't want to be boxed in to voting fitz and confirming me when I don't vote fitz. Scum Terata knows he loses in that situation.

[I Am Innocent]

tl;dr Vote Terata

[I Am Innocent]

Nothing new to add. Tomorrow is a hectic day for me, tho should be able to check in at night time.

[I Am Innocent]

You acting like how people acts recently doesn't matter when that's the only time you've been in the game is so disingenious and completely false. The last days is where both towns and scum get on edge and prove themselves one way or the other. Like i think you're doing right now as scum. And again, assuming i would even bus in that situation (which is stupid in itself), WHY would i make a HALF-HEARTED vote on my partner

when i could get so much more credit

just making up some reasoning why he's scum. Makes no sense.

Because you didn't know the wagon was going to take off. Nor did you want the wagon to take off. Best case scenario for scum Terata:

1) Get town cred later for voting scum (sheep) and not voting town mislynch (Lowell, if it had gone thru) AND
2) Sheep not getting lynched D1

Full out bussing D1 almost never happens. Nor would I have expected you to do that on a power role scum slot. But what you did, followed by your disappearance, yeah that lines. up.

PS - regarding the underlined, how much more credit do you want. Almost nobody was willing to lynch you today, nor would they have if I didn't shine light on your scummy D1 and horrible interaction with Sheep D2 post.

And i was one of the driving solving forces d1, for you to have found NONE of my stuff towny d1 as town is just very unlikely.

Then prove me wrong. Show me these driving solving forces from D1 that I completely missed.

Also, any reason why you didn't answer my question in 2259

: WHAT DOES IT MEAN WHEN A SCUM READ OF YOURS IS TRYING???

[I Am Innocent]

My final thoughts are I like this lynch and obviously feel strongly terata is the last scum. If wrong, I'm sure I'll be alive tomorrow cause I pushed this lynch. If somehow I'm not, Lowell remains my strongest town read.

All said, I'll be shocked if I'm wrong.

[I Am Innocent]

Still prefer lynching Terata. My compromise is unknown. Will keep an eye on the thread as the deadline is approaching.

[I Am Innocent]

I'm back. Won't be here exactly at deadline so we'll need to settle before then.

Well I see you're still on unknown. If unknown doesn't hammer terata in her next post, I'll move to unknown with you.

[I Am Innocent]

Unofficial vote count

Terata 2 - IAI, Fitz
Fitz 2 - unknown, Terata
Unknown 1 - Lowell

[I Am Innocent]

Sounds good

[I Am Innocent]

It's not blackmail. I'm not voting Lowell, and I've already stated if it's not terata it's prob u. I'd rather end this game now (hence u or Lowell vote terata) but with deadline approaching I'm going to move to u if u keep hemming and hawing.

Once Lowell says his piece, if he doesn't move his vote u get one chance to hammer terata or my vote comes ur way.

I'd also appreciate you not name call like that. It's not necessary.

[I Am Innocent]

Like for real, I'm not voting Lowell or Fitz, I don't get the impression they are voting each other, so either vote me and try to get one of them to join you and terata or vote terata who is one of ur top 2 choices. It's not blackmail and it's not a frigginhard choice either.

Playing with u is draining I'm not going to lie.

[I Am Innocent]

I don't gain anything from not voting her if I'm scum. You have not replied to anything I've said this game. If you want to lynch me, that is your choice. You won't like the result.

Well scum unknown would rather see a Fitz lynch and a IAI vs Terata battle/mislynch in LyLo so yeah keeping town terata alive for one more days when he town reads you would be good for scum unknown. Wouldn't you agree?

[I Am Innocent]

scumunknown wouldn't push a lynch that has little chance of happening unless he scum-read then. I honestly didn't expect either of you two to vote him and I'm not surprised it didn't happen.

So with less than 8 hours why are you still sitting on that wagon?

[I Am Innocent]

Well at some point the scummiest player needs to vote, and if a hammer does not occur, then it's up to the then confirmed town to figure who the scum is, the voter or votee.

I'd like to do one more reread focusing only on 4 slots:

Lowell's
Unknowns
Sheeps
Aliseas

Should be quick as I can skip the other posters and I already have votes captured.

[I Am Innocent]

IamInnocent, if you think I'm scum and that Lowell is Town why have you not voted me? That would have done what you want to accomplish.

Well that isn't exactly what I said. For example, if I think you're the scummiest and Lowell also thinks you're the scummiest, you then should vote. Not me. If you both think I'm the scummiest, I'll be happy to vote first.

[I Am Innocent]

Honestly, I'm leaning on you being scum because I don't see why Lowell would kill Havingfitz as scum. Makes no sense.

Okay, nice 180 from earlier. Counter question, who would scum Lowell kill then?

[I Am Innocent]

None of what you just said makes me believe you any more because you should have done this yesterday.

What, had the scummiest person vote first yesterday? Doesn't do squat in non-LyLo. In LyLo, you get a confirmed town, and also force the "scummiest" player to make a choice on who they want to try to convince. And maybe they're wrong and the person they vote for was the one more on the fence...

Nope scummiest person votes first.

[I Am Innocent]

Plus, me being alive over fitz seems like a bit of a set-up, considering my attacking unknown all day and fitz' relative townread on him.

Fitz townread unknown? I don't recall that. Anyone want to provide posts on this I'd appreciate it.

[I Am Innocent]

I'll look back, I may have misremembered.

No I found it. He said late after he developed a scum read on terata that he was leaning town on unknown. Not sure id read that as a vote of confidence unknowns way more than he felt strongly that terata was scum at that point. My memory was of them bickering throughout the day. Also should be noted that Fitz's last comment on unknown was regarding your find of her not wanting to lynch IAI today.

I'll get the post in a sec

[I Am Innocent]

I don't like an IAI vote. Not today anyways.

Terata would you vote Fitz? The only thing is though that I doubt Lowell could be convinced either way but I'm getting second thoughts.

Could you explain

this

?

Nice catch....why would he assume there would be a chance to vote IAI tomorrow if I'm scum?

[I Am Innocent]

@Fro99, you don't need to defend my honor. But seriously thanks for defending my honor.

VOTE: sheep

Is the slip real? Who knows? Am I going to laugh if the sheep flips scum? You bet!

VOTE: Sheep

--

@Naomi: Hi! Come join us

L-3 and L-2 votes on page 3. I know one of these is a bus, but which one.

[I Am Innocent]

From page 3, last I remember:

52- Lil votes sheep to L-3 [+, good pressure]
54- chaos votes wheme, asks what he thinks [-, possible derailment?]
65- hawk calls lil suspicious because he was "the last one to vote [sheep]" [-, what??]
76- AJ calls out hawk for being chicken [+]
80s-90s- Ter and naomi banter [ter looks bad, naomi looks good]
114- Lil explains sheep vote, three times, then promptly unvotes [-, why?]
120s- frogger pushes sheep wagon [+, good]
142- sheep, Lil, Wheme lead w/ 3 votes
158- sheep OMGUS' frogger
171- sheep points out ter's WKing, then reversal when wagon dies [+, hadn't noticed this]
200- EC enters to call out gerry [-, not particularly revealing]
213- AJ calls out hawk again [+, yep]
222- frogger joins hawk-wagon [+]
223- sheep, too [-, good vote, but why he and frogger besties all of a sudden?]
229- frogger notices, returns to sheep [+]
274- naomi post-walls, has NO scum candidates [-, weak]
282- chaos again defends sheep [-, twice now he's derailed]
284- ter votes chaos [+, good new wagon]
293- sheep and hawk lead with three votes
315- wheme calls hawk scum for jumping on "weak" sheep wagon [-, why weak?]
324- EC again jumps in to vote a lurkerish player [-, why not, say, Lowell then?]
346- penguin enters, votes sheep [-, opportunistic]

Some scums:

VOTE: chaos
Chaos looks to be making a specific and deliberate attempt to derial the sheep wagon early on. All of his posts are either subtle attempts to derail the sheep wagon or him asking "hey I wonder what player X think of the sheep wagon?" His entire game so far seems to exist only to make sure sheep isn't killed... without it appearing as so. This is protecting a scumbuddy or WKing a town to pocket him (I'm leaning the former), but either way chaos is certainly scum.

fos hawk

The way he talks in 65 and 75 he takes as given that sheep is not scum and the wagon on him was serving some other purpose than to lynch scum. But why? I notice he's not the only one to do this (Naomi does as well), but the fact that he doesn't even consider the leading wagon could be scum (or is even serious) reads like he already knows the answer.

fos naomi

Maybe someone is going to jump in and tell me there's a meta I'm missing, but to post so many times and not have any scumreads is just bad. I think she's at least partially playing up the "omg I can't decide, it's so hard to find scum!" angle to avoid having to take a stance.

Some maybes:

frogger

. As a rule I'm very, very skeptical of "that guy who everyone townreads." Frogger is no exception. I don't have a playstyle bone to pick here, but tonally he's not quite where I'd expect him to be as a widely-assumed pro-town player. tl:dr I'm putting a pin in this one.

sheep

. I read him as very scum at the start and less so as I read on, largely due to the associative things happening around him.

He starting to feel less like obvscum and more like opportunistic target

. His brute force responses to his critics read less scholarly than oppressive, so none of his defenses really stick for me.

EC

. This guy is just trying to hide. Don't have a strong read but there it is.

Some towns:

AJ

. The only real, strong townread I have in this game. His calling out hawk posts are spot on, and he's in general a good kind of lurker. The one that shows up, is right, then leaves.

ter

. Went 180 on this guy. Thought he looked bad in his first interactions with naomi, but now I look back and I think I misread that passage. I've liked the wide net he's casting and the way he engages.

Whoever is left, null, I guess.

Underline is interesting.

[I Am Innocent]

VOTE: Sheep

--

@Naomi: Hi! Come join us

Fuck this post. Blank votes can go die.

I GUESS I HAVE TO ENQUIRE ABOUT YOUR REASONING AS YOU DIDN'T GIVE IT!

so tell everyone in your own words why your voting sheep and give it in 25 words or more.

I saw what Gerry was seeing and a decent sized wagon early game is great way to evaluate and re-evaluate players.

With that being said:

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Gerry

Naomi and Terata probably aren't scum.

Naomi and Terata probably aren't scum.

I agree here. Thanks for answering my question. I may have been hopped up on cold meds last night but I didn't think the case on sheep was that strong so I didn't mind switching my vote to get some response and shake up some people.

Tho personally I don't see what's so scummy as jumping off a wagon and onto another to get some engagement and conversation. It's d1. And early too. I want lots of people talking today not just tunnel on sheep :/

Also why Gerry? If you thought Sheep's slip was something substantial wouldn't that mean you're inclined to town read Gerry since he was implying that Gerry is town?

Pedit: ^ What Fro99er said. Though Im still only partially sold on it being a legit slip. I can easily see this as being a misnomer. Sheep's reaction to the whole thing seems pretty indifferent he's not trying to hard to deny it as a slip more so just saying it's silly to think of it as a slip.

I thought it was but after a reread I don't trust Gerry and his recent posts make me think he's scum. Just because you agree with someone doesn't mean you think they're town. I know people won't follow me on to him because Sheep is basically telling himself but that's fine. We can get Gerry tomorrow or even now to put me at ease if the rest of you are town reading him.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Sheep

Interesting string of posts. Lil getting off sheep only to get back on. I remember this being positive points to Lil's slot.

[I Am Innocent]

Sheep is so obvious opportunistic scum it hurts.

Spoiler: Why I think Gerry is scum

58, 134, 136, and 152

What first pinged me about Gerry before I did my first reread of his ISO was his 58. On the surface it looks like just filler, but if you look and think it about it on a deeper level, he's arguable treating himself as confirmed town that shouldn't be considered for a lynch today by anyone for getting the game out of RVS as well as starting a wagon on Sheep.

Fast forward to a bit to 134, he does the same thing again by discrediting not only Naomi's read on him but also her as a player by bringing up a previous game without any context in which he claims he got two members of the scum team lynched.

136 is self explanatory.

I'm inclined to believe 152 is more scum motivated than town motivated and it only reinforces my read on him. He's hints at a PR of some sort and says he shouldn't be lynched today. There was no pressure on him at the time and the overall focus was on Sheep as well as the various arguments Frog was getting into so it was odd for him to drop that soft like it's hot and just leave. Scum have more to gain by bread crumbing in my opinion. It helps them with fake claiming and it can potential draw doctors and jail keepers to them.

TL:DR: Gerry has been been basically treating himself as confirmed town since RVS ended.

I think Gerry tried to distance from Sheep early and it sort of backfired a bit. I also think he could be just scum that tried to spread and pray on paranoia early and Sheep is town.

If we lynch Gerry today, we'll probably feel a lot better about Sheep's alignment

VOTE: Gerry

First post found interesting, remembering liking that during my initial read. Second and third post are how he got off the second sheep vote. Not sure that I like this line from the middle post:

"If we lynch Gerry today, we'll probably feel a lot better about Sheep's alignment"

[I Am Innocent]

Honestly, I'm leaning on you being scum because I don't see why Lowell would kill Havingfitz as scum. Makes no sense.

Okay, nice 180 from earlier. Counter question, who would scum Lowell kill then?

Unknown please answer this question

[I Am Innocent]

Day 1 scum votes:

Post Date Player Vote
10 2/3/2017 Cooperative Sheep WhemeStar
158 2/4/2017 Cooperative Sheep Fro99er
223 2/4/2017 Cooperative Sheep Hawk
346 2/6/2017 Alisae (Penguin) Cooperative Sheep
540 2/7/2017 Alisae (Penguin) WhemeStar
883 2/12/2017 Alisae (Penguin) Lowell
950 2/12/2017 Alisae (Penguin) ChaosOmega
964 2/12/2017 Alisae (Penguin) gerryoat
1074 2/13/2017 Alisae (Penguin) WhemeStar
1183 2/14/2017 Cooperative Sheep Lowell
1324 2/14/2017 Alisae (Penguin) Cooperative Sheep

Both scum voted Lowell, neither voted my slot or unknowns

Day 2 scum votes

Post Date Player Vote
1536 2/17/2017 Alisae (Penguin) gerryoat
1563 2/17/2017 Alisae (Penguin) I am Innocent (ny/ECM)
1751 2/25/2017 Alisae (Penguin) ChaosOmega

My slot received a vote, unknown and Lowell no votes.

Voting history points to unknown.

I also want to restate what I said Day 5. Going in to that day, Fitz and I were the leading suspicion getters. I specifically stated that I don't see Alisea making that 1 vs 1 gambit unless her teammate could win it. I specifically felt Fitz was not scum because of this reason, nor would it point to my slot***. As you can see I was right on Fitz, and if you really ask yourself you'll realize it also doesn't make sense for my slot to be scum either.

*** More than half the player list voted me Day 2 (just not at the same time). If you really think Alisea pulls that gambit with me as the last scum, you need to get your head checked.

[I Am Innocent]

@Lowell - why avoid the larger RVS wagon on WhemeStar to pressure Lil Uzi instead?

Interesting, would he address his scummate or protect his scummate?

[I Am Innocent]

@Fro99, you don't need to defend my honor. But seriously thanks for defending my honor.

VOTE: sheep

Is the slip real? Who knows? Am I going to laugh if the sheep flips scum? You bet!

i actually liked this reaction much much more. Pretty towny imo

I liked that reaction less than Uzi's - it felt like he was hard playing nonchalance while actively building a wagon. If his goal was pressure, he should have owned the vote - he distanced from it.

Another interesting interaction between the two unknown (pun intended) players to me. Lowell comes off looking better here to me.

[I Am Innocent]

.
.
.
That's an interesting way to look at it - I don't think I can fully come with you on it as thus far Frogger has also shown a bit of lack of responding to things otherwise. Also, he did literally misrepresent and lie about a comment when attacking me, which is an issue. At the RVS stage you shouldn't have to do that - which means either it's a really bad habit, or he was salivating scum who got overexcited.

I continue to dislike Lowell for the early stuff that he opted to dodge and the notes mentioned here.
Frogger is also looking bad - I stand by the salivating scum comment.
I agree with those who think Gerry bought the slip, I don't think it looks like a slip but I don't need to squint hard to see why he thought it did. I find it a little odd that he's not still pushing on it if he actually thought it was a slip though.
I generally like Naomi's entrance.
I also am okay with Terata.
That said I would tend to expect one scum amongst Terata, Naomi, and Chaos - just due to not having a town read on him and having one on the other two, I'll call it as Chaos.

I agree with people that are not a fan of Uzi's vote, but find it odd that some of these same people aren't citing Lowell.

I think I find Hawk scummier than Uzi, and of about equal scumminess to Lowell.

I'd like to lynch Lowell or Hawk right now, with optional secondaries for Chaos and Frogger.

Removed the top half of it, I think the underlined looks bad for unknown not lowell

[I Am Innocent]

I don't understand your reply there, here's the timeline - you arrive in the game and say this;

I havent played with sheep b4 obv, but he strikes me as a person that would defend himself awkardly as either alignment, so while i think towns could be pinged by his weird wordings, i dont rly think its scummy.

You then attack Uzi (one of my attackers) at this stage, you are effectively WKing me.

Later on, the wagon on me dissolves - at that point you shift your read to a "might be scum" sort of read.

I say that the theory scum plan was to WK (which you did) and then, later, when you realize the wagon won't bull rush through it's viable to have me as a lynch option by seeing how maybe I'm scum (which you also did). That is a coherent comment which is as much of a slip as my last comment called a slip. If something looks weird it's because we're not talking cleanly to each other - not because it's a slip.

Look at Sheep trying to point out how Lil/Unknown is "one of my attackers"

[I Am Innocent]

You continue to push the misrep and lie angle, when I pointed out I simply misread. Misreading is different from intentionally misrepping or lying.

You need to make a case on me that doesn't involve me not reading, thinking I misrepped, or thinking I lied.

So you agree that you misrepped/misunderstood me?
But your case doesn't change?
Okay.

Vote: Hawk

Would also do Lowell, but I'll sheep AJ for the moment.
I actually think Frogger's defense is bad enough I'm reading it as town - the point being if he doesn't see the hypocrisy, it's not scum hypocrisy whether it exists or not.

Okay, my current scumreads don't exactly include you but this jump at the end is fucking atrocious. You go from 'let's talk' to voting frogger, who you claim to want to have a discussion with. You're so incredibly nitpicky especially in latter pages about what frogger said and not about what frogger's DONE. Because you attacking doesn't really solve anything Frogger had pushed for the last couple of pages.

The points you claim I'm being nitpicky about are the same thing's Frogger's done.
Note in his last post - he isn't admitting to lying or misrepping - but he is admitting to misunderstanding, which is the same thing just depending on whether he is town or scum.
That's the point, and I needed to figure out the hypocrisy to get a read through it, when the slot I'm presented with is resorting to ignoring, rage, and yelling to present their case - I don't know another way to sort through it. If you have suggestions for future games I'd love to hear them..

Always hate when scum say things like 'Would also do Lowell, but I'll sheep AJ for the moment.'

[I Am Innocent]

You continue to push the misrep and lie angle, when I pointed out I simply misread. Misreading is different from intentionally misrepping or lying.

You need to make a case on me that doesn't involve me not reading, thinking I misrepped, or thinking I lied.

So you agree that you misrepped/misunderstood me?
But your case doesn't change?
Okay.

Vote: Hawk

Would also do Lowell, but I'll sheep AJ for the moment.
I actually think Frogger's defense is bad enough I'm reading it as town - the point being if he doesn't see the hypocrisy, it's not scum hypocrisy whether it exists or not.

Okay, my current scumreads don't exactly include you but this jump at the end is fucking atrocious. You go from 'let's talk' to voting frogger, who you claim to want to have a discussion with. You're so incredibly nitpicky especially in latter pages about what frogger said and not about what frogger's DONE. Because you attacking doesn't really solve anything Frogger had pushed for the last couple of pages.

The points you claim I'm being nitpicky about are the same thing's Frogger's done.
Note in his last post - he isn't admitting to lying or misrepping - but he is admitting to misunderstanding, which is the same thing just depending on whether he is town or scum.
That's the point, and I needed to figure out the hypocrisy to get a read through it, when the slot I'm presented with is resorting to ignoring, rage, and yelling to present their case - I don't know another way to sort through it. If you have suggestions for future games I'd love to hear them..

Always hate when scum say things like 'Would also do Lowell, but I'll sheep AJ for the moment.'

[I Am Innocent]

@Lowell - considering their relative wagon sizes and that you don't seem to like either player's play - why did you choose to hop on the Chaos wagon as opposed to the more vibrant Hawk wagon?

@Lowell - Do you not use votes for pressure and analysis? Seems like even if someone is your secondary/tertiary read if you are in a better position to pressure them it would still be worth your time, no? (I mean, I'll agree with Frogger's vote this is becoming more intellectual as a question than practical but still)

Not sure I like either of these questions.

[I Am Innocent]

Sheep.

Olive branch.

Who would you prefer that lynch between Lowell, Penguin, and chaos.

Hawk isn't happening and Wheme isn't happening without a CC

I would do Lowell, Chaos, and Penguin in that order of preference.
Still ten pages back - welcome to all my games

Interesting to box himself in on Lowell (if scum, could have power role) first and put Penguin (goon last). bodes well for Lowell not being scum.

[I Am Innocent]

@Frogger - I don't get how you think CO is exactly sorting Wheme. I'd rather lynch CO of that combo if we want a sort, and there doesn't appear to be a sort, and considering the Wheme headache I'm not getting why you're tossing it aside to another scum read of yours. Clarify?

I'd be fine lynching Hawk or Lowell today.

Sheep has been gone for so long that I haven't even said something to them once. Given they've been under some heat all day I honestly wouldn't be too surprised if they were lurking scum.

I've been generally posting multiple times a day every day of the game, are you mixing me up with someone else?

People are ignoring how bad Hawk is until just now.
I'm actually having a hard time figuring out if there's more theory soft support for Lowell or Hawk.
I'mma do this to see if it's Lowell.

Vote: Lowell

Sheep the sheep everyone! There is mint julep tea at the end of this rainbow.
I will be back later if people manage to bum rush onto Hawk, the guy who talks out of both sides of his mouth all day.
I still oppose the Wheme lynch.

Going to break for a bit. I don't like sheep right now, and I thbink that is where I would put my vote right now if I had to choose. Will be back later.

I need to look at Lowell and EC. Nothing stands out to me in either aspect so if people have a strong read on either, I would actually like to see it from someone else's perspective to see if I agree/disagree. Otherwise I'll look at them more intently later.

I need to look at Chaos too, so unless your case is compelling I'd rather lynch Sheep or Penguin today.

Sheep has been gone for so long that I haven't even said something to them once. Given they've been under some heat all day I honestly wouldn't be too surprised if they were lurking scum.

TBH, I'm not feeling as good about this lynch as I could be.

However, my gut is telling me to hammer.

I'll regret this later, maybe... stupid Gut.

VOTE: Sheep

Unknown, you suspected Sheep from the very beginning of your replace in. Why did it take you so long (until the hammer) to vote him?

[I Am Innocent]

IamInnocent, if you think I'm scum and that Lowell is Town why have you not voted me? That would have done what you want to accomplish.

Well that isn't exactly what I said. For example, if I think you're the scummiest and Lowell also thinks you're the scummiest, you then should vote. Not me. If you both think I'm the scummiest, I'll be happy to vote first.

You didn't answer me again, you ignored me. It doesn't matter who votes, that's not how it works. If you think I'm scum, then why haven't you voted me? I'm not comfortable in saying you are confirmed scum, which is why I'm not voting. If you're Town and you think I'm confirmed scum, vote me and let your cards play out. That's how it works.

It does matter who votes. I'm not making scum's decision for them. If you and Lowell both think it's me, I'll vote first. But until then, I stand by what I said earlier. The scummiest person goes first. That's how it works.

[I Am Innocent]

Honestly, I'm leaning on you being scum because I don't see why Lowell would kill Havingfitz as scum. Makes no sense.

Okay, nice 180 from earlier. Counter question, who would scum Lowell kill then?

That's an easy question: you, for your own reasons. You just said yourself that I pulled a 180, which means you yourself thought I Town-read you. Also, I can tell in your aggressive tone you are either trying to make me look inferior or you are just frustrated. Not sure which one but frankly I don't care for it.

Also, it's not a 180 if I Town-read Lowell more than you. Which brings me to another point, why did I kill my scum-read who was arguably easier to lynch?

I said you pulled a 180 not because of a read switch I thought you made on my slot, but because in very short time you made these two posts:

Honestly, it doesn't seem like either of you will believe me, but Havingfitz died for a possibility of a couple reasons.

1.) he started to question me being scum. You won't agree with this one as much because you think I'm scum but this is a possibility IMO.

2.) Lowell couldn't be killed, (this is if he's scum) and had to pick someone else to kill in replacement of him.

3.) IamInnocent (if he's scum) framed Lowell by killing Havingfitz in an attempt to guarentee his survival.

Atleast there was a kill, I was ready to auto skip because I thought there'd be a coward player.

Honestly, I'm leaning on you being scum because I don't see why Lowell would kill Havingfitz as scum. Makes no sense.

Interesting how you put that out as a possibility, but then less than 50 mins later say it "Makes no sense"

[I Am Innocent]

Honestly, I'm leaning on you being scum because I don't see why Lowell would kill Havingfitz as scum. Makes no sense.

Okay, nice 180 from earlier. Counter question, who would scum Lowell kill then?

That's an easy question: you, for your own reasons. You just said yourself that I pulled a 180, which means you yourself thought I Town-read you. Also, I can tell in your aggressive tone you are either trying to make me look inferior or you are just frustrated. Not sure which one but frankly I don't care for it.

Also, it's not a 180 if I Town-read Lowell more than you. Which brings me to another point, why did I kill my scum-read who was arguably easier to lynch?

As for your last question, there is two reasons that Lowell is still alive:

1) He is the last scum, so killed the next towniest player (I'm not as easily going to dismiss as you)

2) You killed him because either you didn't think Fitz and I would cross vote or WIFOM, the latter of which I am killing myself over. So if you're the last scum, well done.

[I Am Innocent]

None of what you just said makes me believe you any more because you should have done this yesterday.

What, had the scummiest person vote first yesterday? Doesn't do squat in non-LyLo. In LyLo, you get a confirmed town, and also force the "scummiest" player to make a choice on who they want to try to convince. And maybe they're wrong and the person they vote for was the one more on the fence...

Nope scummiest person votes first.

Read two posts up. The fact you don't know how it works shows me you aren't thinking clear like a Town should.

Nice shade. noted.

[I Am Innocent]

Fine -_-
VOTE: ECM
You can catchup. Looking forward to what you have to post anyways.
But after that bullshit with me yesterday you are by no means towns.

Honestly, this really sits uncomfortably with me. Alisae does a very small push on EC, compared to the massive push she did on Gerrybote. And it is very quickly dropped when the slot replaces out. I could easily see her gaining credit if she knew he was replacing out.

Interesting that you missed most of these posts:

and yeah I don't really like that post by ECM tbh as well.
pedit: swiped.

Okay now you just get roped.
Terata scum after starting a flashwagon on Sheep AROUND DEADLINE?
REALLY?
REALLY?

Wheme why not ECM?

Or that Alisea only unvoted my wagon when it dropped to 2 votes and Chaos's wagon jumped up to three votes.

[I Am Innocent]

I don't want to be lynched, but it seems like that's the road we're going down. I'm offering to answer anything you ask, this is me trying to work with you here.

i buy this ate rn. makes me wanna cry

Garrybote doesn't it remind of Trans from House of Harmony?
VOTE: ChaosOmega

I'll vote if needed then.

VOTE: ChaosOmega

Interesting who places the L-1 vote right after Alisae, with a resounding "I'll vote if needed then."

[I Am Innocent]

"And it is very quickly dropped when the slot replaces out."

HE WAS STILL FRIGGIN PUSHING THE WAGON LESS THAN 50 POSTS FROM THE HAMMER VOTE ON CHAOS!!!

sorry, I feel better. Care to recant that statement unknown?

[I Am Innocent]

Wheme why not ECM?

POST 1709!!!

The vote count when this post was made (1709), and was in reference to Wheme's changed vote from ECM to Chaos in 1708:

ECM 3 votes
ChaosOmega 2 votes
Wheme 1 vote

So before Wheme changed his vote:

ECM 4 votes
ChaosOmega 1 votes
Wheme 1 vote

Interesting method for trying to divert attention away from your partner......UNLESS.....my slot is town, hmmmm.

[I Am Innocent]

I never claimed that I could prove Wheme's alignment. I said I thought my role seems incompatible with a town rolestopper. But it's not impossible.

I'm a tracker. My target last night was ECMitchell; they didn't go anywhere.

Some of Wheme's posts at the end of D1 made me second guess my scum read on the slot. I read through Sheep's ISO, and they mentioned every player in the game except for ECMitchell. Not even in passing, not as a part of a readslist, none. It's a giant scumtell to me when scum is lynched and someone isn't mentioned by them.

I would say AJ should fullclaim, but I actually think it's better AJ keep the investigative role he is hidden

I just want to know if AJ got a result

ECM did not make a kill.

I'm willing to take this 1 for 1 and roll Alisae first but I'm trying to figure out what the point of Alisae's claim is from scum right now.

Just for those wondering, I'm Vanilla Town by the way, and two nights I was tracked/followed doing nothing. Something to consider when you're developing your reads. Either you think I'm a goon who was never sent to do the kill or I'm vanilla town like I said.

[I Am Innocent]

Wheme why not ECM?

POST 1709!!!

The vote count when this post was made (1709), and was in reference to Wheme's changed vote from ECM to Chaos in 1708:

ECM 3 votes
ChaosOmega 2 votes
Wheme 1 vote

So before Wheme changed his vote:

ECM 4 votes
ChaosOmega 1 votes
Wheme 1 vote

Interesting method for trying to divert attention away from your partner......UNLESS.....my slot is town, hmmmm.

Elaborate on this? I'm not quite seeing your point. You're saying Ali would have left your slot alone or what? We've seen Ali's willingness to bus (sheep) and 1v1 to kill VT.

There's a difference between pushing a wagon and hopping on a flash wagon when ur buddying/sheeping the town leader (froggers) which is what alisea did:

VOTE: Sheep
Flash wagon let's goooooo!

There was no further post pushing Sheeps wagon.

[I Am Innocent]

You probably still think I'm scum IAI, but look at this because it's worth looking at.

Trust me I'm not dismissing anything. At this point I want to hear Lowell's thoughts. He made it sound like we could expect something today.

[I Am Innocent]

Frogger had been Town-reading me all game. I have no idea why you assume that he only Town-read me before he died.

He also Town-read Uzi.

Gerry kill from me makes no sense. One of his last posts was him saying that IAI/Fitz was the last scum, then died saying "wait! I know who the last scum is" and never told us.

I don't understand what you're saying. Unless you assume getting rid of Frogger, Gerry, and Fitz (people who weren't scum-reading me at the time of their deaths) then you aren't thinking correctly.

Frogger was suspicious of EC iirc for a long time. All of the kills make more sense for him more than me.

Okay let's review the list:

Gerry you said was leaning towards Fitz/IAI
You were leaning towards Fitz/IAI
Terata was leaning towards Fitz/IAI
Lowell has been suspicious of my slot for most of the game

So why did Alisea go 1 vs 1 with Frogger when everyone and their mom was suspecting Alisea's last teammate (assuming I'm the last scum)?

It

Does

Not

Add

Up

!

Factor in the two night targets on my slot, and you really think it was Goon/Goon/Even Night JKer (what are they likely to get, 1, maybe 2 shots on average in a game) against all this town power???

If the town player of you recognizes these two facts, we got a 50/50 shot in winning this. Yes puts the pressure on me, but I'm pretty sure the scum of you and Alisea thought you had it in the bag with Fitz and me pretty much being guaranteed to be the last two mislynches. Then again, you probably didn't see me turning that theory upside down and forcing scum to kill Fitz.

For the record, I came across something I previously hadn't quoted but it is probably going to be the dealbreaker on which way I vote. I want to see where both of you are at before I disclose tho.

[I Am Innocent]

@IaI, above you ask why Ali would kill frogger if everyone else suspected you. But frogger suspected you too

Okay, then why trade one vs one AT ALL??? Why not continue "bussing me" like Alisea did Day 2 and get town cred? Because going 1 vs 1 with Frogger and leaving me to win the game DOES.NOT.MAKE.SENSE.

Why do you continue to ignore this fact? Why do you not even talk about the points of my slot being investigated twice with zero return?

Also, why do you say in the same post: "Unknown, don't vote me." & "I'd prefer someone else do it, even if it's against me, so that it won't be my problem."

[I Am Innocent]

@IaI, I agree in principle that Ali's sacrifice doesn't really make that much sense, but as far as which of the three of us it MAYBE makes some sense for, that's where I'm coming to you. Tell me why Ali would sacrifice himself for me or for unknown if it's not you. It happened.

Because who was scumreading you or Unknown prior to the Alisea gambit? Few if any right? The key being, Alisea wasn't going to last more than two days when making that gambit. So the last teammate needed to win the game, aka, be somewho was universally town read.

Frogger dies, still need 2 mislynches
Alisea dies, still need 2 mislynches

Guess who is left....2 people most if not all people were scumreading.....Fitz (flipped town) and me. The scum of unknown or you were certainly sure to win with easy flips over Fitz/myself.

But Alisea and teammate probably underestimated me. Yesterday I flipped this game on it's head when I said, it can't be me, it can't be fitz***. This was after Terata and unknown both coming in and stating they think the last scum is one of us (fitz/myself).

***Question for the town player of you two, why would scum IAI shoot down an easy mislynch of fitz and go out and build a "fake case" on Terata? Why not save that for LyLo after fitz was mislynched?

[I Am Innocent]

ebwop Yesterday I flipped this game on it's head when I said, it can't be me, it can't be fitz

for the reasons mentioned above ("the last teammate needed to win the game, aka, be somewho was universally town read")

[I Am Innocent]

ebwop Yesterday I flipped this game on it's head when I said, it can't be me, it can't be fitz

for the reasons mentioned above ("the last teammate needed to win the game, aka, be somewho was universally town read")

I agree... I think. But why frogger?

Not sure I ever believe scum but this was Alisea's last post:

Frogger was the only one who could lead things and he had to go.

[I Am Innocent]

If you know who you want to vote then vote. I sense you jumping on unknown's interest in voting me but not trying to get to excited. I'd rather you say what you're thinking, because asking us for our thoughts and offering cagey responses is not cool.

I do know who I want to vote. I promise it is legit, I'll share the reason and even vote first once I hear commitments from both of you. And I'll provide the post that goes along with that reason...it is one I haven't shared with you and when you two see it you'll know I wasn't blowing smoke at this point.

My final thoughts, I'm town, Alisea leaving the game in scum IAI's hands is just crazy. I hope the town player of you two can come to grips with that, because if not, a vote my way is a loss. I get it, my predecessor played like crap, and I'm not going to lie, I honestly was 80% sure that Terata was the last scum. I went all in and was wrong, so if town loses I'll take the lion's share of the blame. All I will say is if say Fitz had been lynched the previous day, this game would have been over days ago cause I would have voted Terata in my opening post LyLo, and scum would have hammered.

So once you two commit, I'll share.

[I Am Innocent]

If you think it's me you might as well just vote. Unknown will hammer and it'll be mercifully over. He's obviously just sitting back waiting for something to happen.

You around right now?

[I Am Innocent]

So where was frogger leading then? That's why I keep coming back to you. He knew I was town, and at least said he was leaning town on unknown by the end.

But was he leaning town on unknown when the gambit happened?

[I Am Innocent]

Well I'm not as sure on that. For sure he leaned town in his final moments, but I'd have to read back before that.

I think I'm going to make my vote.

[I Am Innocent]

anyway

Never lynch Lowell or Terata

They are conftown

One scum one ali or AJ because otherwise town is OP. Obviously I'm VT and when I flip you all will see t has to be scum!Ali because there is no way town has a tracker a watcher and a third investigative PR in AJ. So it's Ali v AJ tomorrow. And because I'm flipping VT you all HAVE the lynch Ali no questions asked

Not going to lie, Lowell surviving threw me for a loop, and I struggled with my strong town read I developed on him during my initial read through.

I'm going to defer to Frogger tho, he played the best game here and he said never to lynch Terata or Lowell. I did not listen to him about Terata, I'll defer to him on Lowell. If I lose to Lowell, I have no problem saying well played to the scum team. If I lose to unknown though, I think I would have much more regret.

Lowell if you're town, I hope you come around and realize Alisea sacrificing himself and putting all his eggs in my basket to win this game is just terribad scum play, and does not add up.

If you're scum, well hammer and gloat.

Sorry all if I'm wrong.

vote unknown

[I Am Innocent]

Here now.

That vote prob loses you the game though, cuz I think Lowell is scum.

Yeah even if you guys had cross voted I was pretty sure I was going your way anyway, I don't think any further arguments were going to sway me. If I lose, I'll say congrats to Lowell and then you can say 'I told you so.'

[I Am Innocent]

If you're voting me so you don't look bad when you lose, that's hilarious lol.

No I don't care how I look. I've had really good games and really bad games. I only ever talk about the good ones tho

[I Am Innocent]

Here now.

That vote prob loses you the game though, cuz I think Lowell is scum.

I do find it interesting that you find Lowell scum yet still have not voted him.

[I Am Innocent]

Crap!!!!!!!!!

Well played

[I Am Innocent]

You're friggin stubbornness is what nearly gave you away. Oh well props where they are deserved.

Sorry unknown, rest of town

[I Am Innocent]

Still, I'm going to kill Ali for doing this to me.

Lol did he go rogue on u?

[I Am Innocent]

For the record I'm still shocked terata wasn't scum.

[I Am Innocent]

Did u have a power?

[I Am Innocent]

Was I just really scummy?

Honestly my reads in the final five was:

Lowell - very strong town for interactions with scum
Fitz - very strong town based on gambit
Unknown - null
Terata - strong scum read

So no I don't think you were scummy, it was POE for me which got muddied when Lowell survived the last night. My biggest concern with ur slot was I felt u focused much more on getting people to town read u then scumhunting.

Or at least that's how it felt to me.

Plus remember my theory also revolved around players who were not too scummy to be aliseas partner.

Now that I said all that, feel free to let me have it. I can take it

[I Am Innocent]

Reading the dead thread depressed me, sorry guys! At least unknown gave u a little hope at the end :-/