Mini 1889: Greatest Idea Mafia (Endgame!)

[Drixx]

VOTE: Boring

Learned that one the hard way.

[Drixx]

I skipped ahead just to answer the earlier question, since apparently 1-shot lynchproof is good?

I got dealt retired marine and a card with a very useful ability, so I took the Retired marine for alignment (the odds of an SK in this setup are very low). Seems stupid to out my actual role. Suffice it to say that I valued it over having a shot of lynchproof.

[Drixx]

Oh hey another game where I get wagon'd and probably killed D1

Where have I faced this situation before?

Oh wait, every game I've ever played ever. Except The Thing.

Let's get on with it, shall we?

Wow this is bad. This is bad in a way that feels real though. Go figure. This is super consistent with your idea that one shot lynchproof is really desirable.

Generally speaking

, getting lynched isn't my issue.

@Grey - Well, you got one helluva bad vote to pounce on, but I'm still undecided on Wraith. There's a very believable (natural) clumsiness there.

@RC - you just made me laugh audibly.

@LUV - I'm really not good scum.. I just had a lucky couple newbie games.

Uh uh. I was on the losing side of your first game. You no get to claim luck.

If we're going to lynch Drixx at all this game, I think we should do it within the next (r/l) day or two, before he recovers from his illness.

Meant that for the scum PT.

Ha. Ha. *cough*

[Drixx]

I'd like Drixx and LUV to come back, please

Never went anywhere. (Except to sleep, which I've been doing a lot of this past week. Only 11 hours last night though!). What's up Boring?

[Drixx]

Hrm. I think I'm going to probably believe RC on this one. Transcend has been basically posting stuff that seems helpful except it's just information without analysis. Add to that RC saying there's a hard scum tell that he's dropped twice.

[Drixx]

Okay, let's get to work.

First let's figure out who's lurking, since there are players with a single post or so in the last couple of pages who I completely forgot about.

Posts By Player

Grey: 92
Transcend: 65
Keyser: 50
RC: 36
LUV: 36
boring: 33
Wraith: 26
Screenplay: 22
zefiend: 22
alban: 8
massive: 7
PimHel: 5
Drixx: 4

So unbelievably, there are three players who have fewer posts than alban,

who pleads sickness

.

At the moment, I'm reasonably confident in assuming Keyser and Grey are both town. Keyser has been actively moving to solve the game from an early stage, and I find Grey claiming Mass Redirector to be more likely town-motivated than not.

However, re-reading I've encountered a contradiction already that will be noted below.

Let's go through shit.

Spoiler: Wall

* PimHel is still sitting on his RVS vote (Screenplay), who happens to now be a growing wagon target. Screenplay is still sitting on his RVS vote (Grey), this despite him townreading Grey in #358.
* Like me, boring was rather perplexed by Drixx discarding the One-shot Unlynchable Townie card
* Grey claimed Mason with Keyser in #38. However, in #324, he also claims Mass Redirector. While it's possible that Grey was joke-claiming Mason for the RVS, this still needs clarification. EDIT: Since Keyser comes out and says he isn't actually Masons with Grey in #92, it's clear now Grey was just joke-claiming.
* I'm still rather confused about RC's apparent counterclaim in #61. In #81 he goes back on his counterclaim and claims Doctor as his alignment card. But even then, that brings back the question of why counterclaim against a mod-confirmed discard?
* LUV in #93-94 is indirectly objecting to Keyser's effort to get everyone to claim alignment cards by misreading the claims of Transcend and RC and portraying those claims as "damaging" to the town. Honest mistake? Subtle way to throw shade on Keyser? Both are equally plausible, but for now I lean the latter.
* Again, zefiend outright refusing to claim his alignment card is suspicious to me. Some have brought up that such a gambit would make little sense as scum because it would draw immediate heat on him - I disagree. While this situation would be easily avoidable if zefiend simply claimed VT for alignment, if I can inject some WIFOM any scum player here would be obviously aware that that's the easy out and might consider a VT alignment card claim suspicion in itself. For my part, I view the refusal to even allow a risk he might be counterclaimed as more suspicious than anything.
* boring is also skeptical of claiming alignment cards. Despite this, he votes for zefiend.
* I find it suspicious that Transcend was immediately wary of zefiend's refusal to claim his alignment card, yet didn't vote for him until after boring did so first.
* massive claimed (Town, presumably) One-Shot PGO as his alignment card. Keep in mind there is a Werewolf version of this card.
* I have to agree with Grey that it's rather unlikely that 2/3 Conspiracy Theorist cards would pop up on a 39-card draw. boring claimed Conspiracy Theorist for alignment and Grey's mod-confirmed discard was Conspiracy Theorist. Obviously, this lends more credence to Grey in this situation.
* As noted by many other players, zefiend's #146-147 comes off as overdefensive.
* I don't like at all that the third part of boring's #149 is essentially injecting a large dose of WIFOM into the zefiend discussion.
* In response to me listing the possible power cards zefiend could've drawn, massive votes for zefiend. This is a very sharp contrast with how Grey, boring, LUV, and Screenplay reacted to my post.
* Grey accuses boring of trying to indirectly derail the zefiend wagon in favor of a wagon on me
* In #180, RC expresses willingness to lynch boring and a belief that zefiend is town. He then urges LUV to vote boring, while keeping his own vote on me. Odd.
* While I still townread Grey, I find it odd that despite "fishing for bad votes" and apparently hitting on me, he didn't have a problem with massive's vote for zefiend slightly earlier
* Despite voting for and scumreading me, LUV apparently missed my hop onto the zefiend wagon by a whole two pages
* Grey does a complete 180 on zefiend page ~9-10. While odd, this seems in keeping with Grey's character, at least as far as I'm aware
* In #233, RC expresses bafflement that anyone would be townreading him at that point. While at the time I personally did view RC's play as extremely erratic and very slightly suspicious, upon a re-read I feel more confident in townreading RC by this point
* By #262, Keyser apparently scumreads 6 players, alban being the only player of them he names.
* Transcend started out very active, but his activity became sporadic after a short time
* In #284, Grey switches his vote to Screeplay. This is a pretty reasonable vote IMO, since Screenplay has mostly been making posts every now and then that contribute little to nothing. After having not made a post in over 100 posts, Screenplay reacts to this vote immediately. IMO a sign of active lurking.
* Interestingly, I think zefiend makes a good point in #297. In general I like zefiend's page 12-13 activity. In fact, his pointing out of massive's bad vote earlier while others apparently missed it probably makes me townread him now.
* #324 is Grey's Mass Redirector claim. While I can see a potential scum motivation for this claim (making rival scum factions fear their kills could be redirected to themselves or a buddy) I find it more likely to be town-motivated. If Grey was scum, he could easily have let the action go through without claiming and let the town investigative/protective roles stew in their confusion the next day. Additionally, the potential scum motivation can ALSO apply to a town motivation.
* In #325, PimHel reappears and question's alban's reasons for giving a "possible tactic for scum to use." Yet, if PimHel is caught up as he claims, he should know that alban was the second-to-last person to claim their alignment card. And since he townreads zefiend (the last player left to claim, who refuses to claim), there is no reason to throw shade about a "possible scum tactic" when everyone else has already committed to a truth or a lie.
* As I wondered at the time, Keyser saying he'd "hoped not to have to vote D1" is really strange. At the time I thought it might be role-related, but there don't seem to be any PRs tied to their vote in the deck
* In #365, Grey apparently forgets he's already voting for Screenplay
* I find Transcend's #391-393 questionable. Especially since he suddenly released a flurry of activity after a minor, joking suspicion was thrown at him. Though his justification for the Screenplay vote in #397 is fine, so I'm probably overthinking this one.
* Then again, three of my more confident townreads quickly turn their attention to him, so...
* boring always has her options open when the wind changes, it seems to me

I've realigned my reads. At the moment I'm willing to lynch boring, massive, LUV, or Screenplay. Drixx and PimHel to a lesser extent, because lurking.

For the time being I will park here: VOTE: massive

Bolded and underlined part is gross. It should go unquestioned when someone says they are sick or something. For example, I am coming off a week of being sicker than I've ever been and not ended up hospitalized. Are you going to cast doubt on me too?

[Drixx]

You can't lynch me, I'm the gingerbread man!

Wanna bet?

VOTE: Transcend

This reads as faux non-concern at being heavily suspected.

[Drixx]

This is an awful lot of flailing about with a heaping side of AtE to boot. If I wasn't already voting there, I'd vote and L-1 it.

[Drixx]

Jumping ahead from page 29 where Boring outed that I targeted -Grey- and he then leapt to the conclusion that I must be scum. Sorry but no. I do have a night action, and I did target you with it, but my action doesn't kill. I've got several pages of reading to do, but given how unpleasant just page 29 was from -Grey-, I thought I'd at least put that shit to rest.

[Drixx]

I can't see why a townie/scum would visit Grey unless they thought/knew he was lying about his two claims role cards or wanted to block/kill him.
Thus, Drixx's night visit reason will be interesting

If you have played with -Grey-, at all, you'll know he claims all sorts of shit. In my limited interactions with him so far, I haven't seen any consistent way to figure him out, so I wanted to know.

I'm going to bathe in Drixx's blood and use RC's skin as a robe.

I get that you are over the top, but this might be taking it just a

wee bit

too far, mate.

I meant what I said in 741.

RC is now firmly in my scumreads pile and I will be screaming for his blood when Drixx flips Scum.

There's no possible universe where RC and I would be scum and RC would defend me after I got tracked to someone claiming to be BP. This is so much of a reach that if it weren't for my actual role result, I would be voting you right now. Like ... I'm more surprised than you could possibly be that RC didn't immediately just vote me and instead is suspicious of you, but I literally cannot envision a possible world where that is what you're positing it to be.

[Drixx]

Actually ... RC made a super reasonable post. Given my experience with you, I assumed your claims were just as likely to be BS as to be true. Either way I got info by targeting you. If you were telling me BS, then targeting you was the only way to get what I wanted to know. If you were telling the truth, then everything would be re-directed to you. Either way you slice it, RC is spot on and you're stubbornly hanging on to a busted assumption. Time to move on now Grey.

[Drixx]

This is so much of a reach that if it weren't for my actual role result, I would be voting you right now.

Way to insinuate results without actually giving away anything definitive that you can just backpedal on later.

I'm happy with my vote considering you still can't justify visiting me as town.

I refuse to unvote without a claim and result. Period.

Okay. It's your vote. Do what you like with it. Whenever you decide that you position as a potentially unkillable member of the town obligates you to actually play for real instead of taking pot shots at me about another game, please feel free to rejoin the rest of us.

Also ... those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. This is self-explanatory.

[Drixx]

There's nothing at all vague about outright saying I investigated you. Time to go sniff someone else's ass now, lol.

[Drixx]

So.... Is no one else seeing WhemeStar's outright contradictions, or does no one actually care?

I'm paying attention. I'm watching for the moment. You know my roll Boring. I'll pounce when I'm ready.

[Drixx]

Drixx, is Grey town?

Barring any shenanigans: yes.

[Drixx]

Jumping ahead from page 29 where Boring outed that I targeted -Grey- and he then leapt to the conclusion that I must be scum. Sorry but no. I do have a night action, and I did target you with it, but my action doesn't kill. I've got several pages of reading to do, but given how unpleasant just page 29 was from -Grey-, I thought I'd at least put that shit to rest.

How far are you? A lot has gone down but the overall content level has been fairly minimum.

Why did you choose to target Grey?

Because he lies, frequently and often and self-admittedly. I really didn't want to be paranoid about him all game.

And this is simple shit folks. There's only a few roles which give alignment info. There's only

ONE

(imo) where explicitly claiming could (depending on the card draw) result in outing other investigators just to find out that I'm telling the truth. There's literally zero upside to having that conversation and all downside. Barring Grey running some kind of convoluted gambit where he's actually some flavor of Godfather and he believes he can both get me mislynched and then somehow NOT be roped himself following that (seems really fucking unlikely, but hey ... it's in the possibility space), dude's town. And now it should make some sense why I didn't have a desire to keep the 1-shot unlynchable.

Info wins the game. Period.

[Drixx]

We have a smart winner. That's why I said barring any shenanigans. There remains some small possibility space where -Grey- is not town; however, the way he is interacting with me basically pushes that possibility space into highly implausible. There's no way he trades 1-for-1 for me and there's no way he avoids the rope if he pushes me, so I'm pretty certain he's town.

The whole

point

of being obtuse about it was to see how he would respond to me and to see whether he would put himself in a position that would be wholly compromised if his

actual

role turned out to be some form of godfather.

It's about as good a clear as is possible in this particular semi-open setup.

[Drixx]

[Taking my town read of Grey out of the equation...]

There are potentially multiple scum factions in this game so I presume you can only clear him from being one certain scum faction - thus, it isn't a "town clear".

If this game was MAFIA vs TOWN it would be a "1-for-1" trade scenario, but it isn't - there are likely multiple scum factions in this game, thus, Grey doubting your legitimacy means nothing. Even if he was this 'godfather', he could still be 'other scum'.

I sense that we'll gain clarity on this 'investigation' result after you flip (I'm happy to wait for this information).

Scum!-Grey- would happily take my clear and not push me, I think. But yes ... there is a possibility of II shenanigans. It just doesn't line up with his play. Do you agree or disagree?

[Drixx]

Can you guys please read my posts? I pointed out why I didn't explicitly claim before. I didn't claim bloodhound. I simply came to the logical conclusion that my result + -Grey- behaving the way he is adds up to he's town.

Obviously I eat a night kill, but that's fine.

There exists no world in this setup where any variant of scum!-Grey- trades 1-for-1 for me, which is why I believe -Grey- isn't any variation of scum here. Me flipping town results in him eating rope. The only world where -Grey- acts as he has today is if he's town.

This isn't hard shit folks.

I'm a

COP

and hooray we gain NOTHING by me making what the smart kids already realized explicit. It would take like 4 claims to counterclaim me, so there's zero upside to this. The only road this leads down is other potential cops being outed. By being circumspect, I think it should be REALLY fucking obvious that -Grey- is indeed not scum.

@-Grey- : Welcome to my town game, bro. Now stop chewing the wrong bone and go find real scum.

[Drixx]

Not getting a scum!RC vibe here. Between him and Keyser, I'd sooner believe Keyser is scum. But before either of those, I'd be looking at Wheme, Pim slot, Wraith and that shady JerryArr character.

[Drixx]

Nobody gets to pick -Grey-. I was intentionally obtuse to get a read on him, and I'll literally eat my hat if he's not town.

@Boring - I'm sorry I'm not posting "enough" for you. I post when there's something that I want to say. Part of the problem is that only a few of us are talking right now, and I threw out some reads and got fuck all of a response. I mean... I know my day one is bad, but damn.

[Drixx]

Fairly epic and well played day one by a Jester day-vig who somehow vigged a lynchee which took out a lyncher. Very solid gambiting by -Grey- which drew an investigate (and while Keyser keeps trying to cast doubt on the clear, there's literally no world in which -Grey- as scum would have behaved the way he did. I outed myself so he had no reason to trade, but pushed me anyway until he was satisfied) and he's mostly clear. We have no kill from any scum from night one (which may have been down to Grey's Gambit, or a claimed roleblock, OR the treestumping of Boring could be from scum). It's hard to draw any firm conclusions in this particular setup.

You'll need to dig in and contribute as your slot is kind of PoEd at this point into one of the places that needs pushing.

[Drixx]

(and while Keyser keeps trying to cast doubt on the clear, there's literally no world in which -Grey- as scum would have behaved the way he did. I outed myself so he had no reason to trade, but pushed me anyway until he was satisfied) and he's mostly clear.

You claimed cop, therefore you only investigate Mafia.
In a Greatest Idea Mafia game that is not a town clear.
Only a Bloodhound can town clear someone into TOWN / NOT TOWN.

Yes but that's why we play the game. Do you honestly believe that -Grey- would trade 1-for-1 for me if he's scum? If your answer is no, then you should be like 95% townreading -Grey- with some paranoia that you keep bottled up. If he's scum, then -Grey- would have been pushing me knowing that I'm not scum with him which means he had to assume a successful wagon would result in me flipping green, which would mean his death tomorrow. Unless we got sorted into a setup where today is LYLO already (possible but improbable I think), there's no world in which -Grey- does that. A 1-for-1 trade in a setup where literally just one person taking a scum card for alignment results in a "valid" setup is beyond suicidal.

Please do point out if I somehow misread something or am misunderstanding this setup, because I'm basically assuming -Grey- is near IC level at this point because of how he played in response to finding out I visited him.

[Drixx]

@RC - Keyser basically gets one chance to get it right, or else I'm going to point out why he should be today's wagon. I hope you'll go with me when you see it. I have very little expectation that he's suddenly going to realize why he's scummy and fix it.

[Drixx]

OMG that was an super ugly few pages. I had a bunch of stuff multi-quoted, but our fearless mod stepped in and I would just as soon not even tangentially bump into that stuff.

Drixx, only Transcend (Town Bloodhound) could town clear Grey. If you are a cop, you can only investigate Mafia.
You're only alive because of your claim right now.
Stop this irrelevant 1v1 trade business. You obviously didn't understand why he was suspicious of you.
There was no reason to visit Grey last night.
Can't touch you though in case you're Town Cop.

I don't know how else I can explain this. I've had an investigative role like 3 times ever, but it was obvious even to me that there were possibility spaces where I could get an innocent that wouldn't be innocent (werewolf, etc...).

So I'm not town reading -Grey- just because I know he's not

mafia

. I'm town reading him because if he was some

other

flavor of scum, there's no way he would push to lynch me. That would result in him being lynched when I flip green. There's no way on earth that any flavor of scum!-Grey- trades 1-for-1 for an outed weak investigator (weak in that this setup has as many scum possibilities that can't be caught by it than can).

Is there any logical flaw in that thinking? If so, please point it out.

[Drixx]

Ummm... I'm not sure you're rational at this point when it comes to RC, -Grey-.

RC doesn't lose his composure and lose his shit like this as scum. He tends to be the very definition of cool and collected. I'm starting to think he might be right about TB.

[Drixx]

Drixx

- I'm still wanting to delay judgement on Drixx. I've seen him use odd reasoning before (I really don't see the 1v1 argument, despite trying to explain it to us like three times). In my first game, he somehow

CORRECTLY

reasoned that since I was least likely to be scum, I was the best lynch choice going into lylo. I'm not trying to be dismissive, I'm just suggesting that it's NAI for him (or even a town-tell? again, I've never seen a confirmed scum!Drixx). If he's a cop, we'll know more tomorrow.

FTFY. I'm totally fine with people underestimating me

[Drixx]

By the way... RC has not, to my knowledge, ever tactically replaced out of a game as scum. That kind of makes the replace out harmful to the game, imo.

[Drixx]

The Cop Lover claim

could

have been a gambit. God knows you're crazy enough to try that -Grey-. There's a wide difference between crazy like a fox and self-destructive crazy, and you strike me as a fox.

I get what you're saying about treating the replace out as NAI, but my brain won't let me dismiss the fact that RC doesn't tactically replace out as scum. That basically makes that slot almost as safe as yours.

[Drixx]

I really wish Drixx had been more forthcoming about his alignment card.

Umm... when I saw the game was open, it was already like on page 6 or something. I saw the claim was asked for and immediately jumped ahead and claimed my alignment card. How much more forthcoming could I possibly have been?

This silly ass scumteam has decided to withhold their votes and watch town tear itself apart while they from the sidelines.

ISO Drixx. Not a single vote today. He's taking after his scum buddy Keyser.

Lynch Drixx, vig Keyser

Got a big fat wrench for you there. If there is one defining consistent thing about my play since the day I joined this site until now, regardless of anything else ... it's that I very rarely vote or move my vote. Go ahead. Go back to my early games and watch as I don't even RVS vote. Feel free to check all my games, or just randomly. You're going to find that I don't vote until my personal standard is met. If your theory was including literally anyone else but me (or my frequent hydra partner Cerberus v666 who NEVER votes, it would maybe make sense).

As for voting. I was ready to give an intent to hammer, but now I see you're back at the silliness again. I'm starting to get a little tickle at the back of my brain that says you might be running the pushes on me as a gambit to pocket me. Not going to go down that particular paranoid path until another day though.


I'm good with Wheme I think. I can see a world where a scum takes that role, especially since most people who get treestumped just check out and stop paying attention.

@Grey - You might do better to be a tad less manic. I have a pretty set routine of when I check in, and this is far from the first time I checked in to you bouncing around like a ping pong ball.

Checking votes to be sure, but I think I'm good with

intent to vote/hammer wheme

and asking for reads and thoughts just in case we're dealing with just bad town and not scum. As a frequent gambler, I find it never hurts to hedge one's bets (For example: Betting the Falcons for the super bowl and taking the points, then betting the amount that bet would pay out at halftime for the gigantic 12:1 payout being offered for halftime bets on the Pats. The Pats bet turned the earlier Falcons bet into a hedge, and then became a gold strike).

Also ... stop fucking with me -Grey-. I got shit to do, and mind games with -Grey- isn't on the schedule for today.

[Drixx]

Got a big fat wrench for you there. If there is one defining consistent thing about my play since the day I joined this site until now, regardless of anything else ... it's that I very rarely vote or move my vote. Go ahead. Go back to my early games and watch as I don't even RVS vote.

Can't find that wrench, considering you voted frequently enough in d1, yet haven't voted d2 AT ALL.

Yep. You will see a trend if you read me from join date forward. I participate in RVS now. I vote more freely on day one than any other day because a mislynch is statistically overwhelmingly likely and so there might as well be some information to work with. That doesn't change the fact that

on the whole

I really very rarely use my vote. This is something you could check with very minimal effort.

I'm starting to get a little tickle at the back of my brain that says you might be running the pushes on me as a gambit to pocket me.

See, this kind of stuff makes no sense considering you've pretty much been calling me lock town for... how long now?

Why in the hell would you think I'd bother running a gambit to pocket somebody that's already there?!

The only reason I've been nearly sure you are not scum is BECAUSE of how you pushed me for visiting you. The fact that you are coming back after me again when me being an outed investigator has only good outcomes for town is why I'm starting to be paranoid. There's no reason for it, since (as you pointed out) your earlier push would be suicidal for scum!you to make.

Since I'm outed there's a small range of things which can happen:

1.) I get night killed (this only happens if there are scum in the game who will be caught out by my investigate)
2.) Scum ignore me and eventually paranoia wins out and you all lynch me, and when I flip green you'll have my reads as developed as they are at that time and a list of whom I investigated. (not that I expect that list will help much as scum probably only ignore me if they are of the non-Italian variety).

So why on earth would you push me because I don't vote much, and then intentionally refuse to go check and discredit that theory? It makes no sense. Unless you want me thinking about how suicidal it would be for scum!You to push me again. And that's where the path to madness begins.

Also ... stop fucking with me -Grey-. I got shit to do, and mind games with -Grey- isn't on the schedule for today.

No mind games here, bruh. Just catching scum and eating corn flakes.

I

might

buy Keyser as scum. I've read my role card so I feel it is my solemn duty to inform you that you are mistaken if you legitimately believe I'm scum. Do carry on with the corn flakes though. They're fairly good for you, as far as processed cereals go. I would highly recommend that you swap to steel cut oats though. Much better for your heart and digestive health.

[Drixx]

I want Wheme to show back up and give reads and thoughts, or self-hammer to avoid potentially slipping up. It's win-win for us if Wheme talks, because very few players can WIFOM as effectively as they think so any reads and thoughts scum!wheme give will be useful, and if we are mistake and this is town!wheme, then we have the benefit of the reads and thoughts of someone whose motives we can trust.

[Drixx]

VOTE: Wheme

L-1

Please read #1894 for a succinct argument against lolhammering.

[Drixx]

very few players can WIFOM as effectively as they think

Heh heh heh.

I straight up called out my partner in LyLo and town refused to Lynch him.

Somewhere in my games is a game where a scum team including Varsoon pulled off a gambit even though I told the game

exactly

what they were doing. Sometimes it happens. Usually? Not so much.

[Drixx]

I received

NO RESULT

last night. I asked if it may have been overlooked and was told that my submission was received but I get no result. I was attempting to investigate Lil Uzi Vert, who has been kind of lurksacking a bit.

There's some other stuff that probably needs talking about, but it's past 1am for me, so I'm going to go sleep.

Please

be aware that we

may

be in a situation where a hasty vote could result in a very quick loss, and act responsibly.

[Drixx]

That answers one of my questions anyway. (I was doubting Wheme was town.)

@Drixx, why target LUV? I checked your ISO and you hasn't mentioned anything about leaning scum on him.

I'm leaning scum on Grey. As I am re-reading, the feeling I am getting is he's all over the place and he jumps from one person to the next very quickly. It just seems like his posting is a massive bowl of WIFOM.

PSA: I'm sick right now. I'm posting at 2:45 am my time because this is when my fever broke. I'm staying home from work today so whenever the fever is down, I'll check in and post more/read the game.

Between the two slots who needed clearing up due to ignoring the requests to full claim, LUV was the one who I was more concerned with.

[Drixx]

Also that 1-shot townie claim is horrible. That's scum and not a survivor. There's no way. It fits with things RC said too. RC is good enough as scum to use the truth whenever he possibly can, so that line about not having targeted due to the gambit -Grey- is almost certainly a true explanation of why he didn't kill anyone night one.

[Drixx]

You realize that you contradicted your slot's previous claim for card used for role, right? You also realize that 1-shot townie turns into a survivor right? Ergo you cannot possibly be town and it seems much more likely you are scum. You are doubling down on the supersaint claim to scare us away from lynching you.

[Drixx]

I suppose that's plausible. If he had doubts, then blocking me would work as a weak pseudo-investigate. It doesn't clear me though... same as my investigate on -Grey- only clears him from being Mafia and not some other flavor of scum.

[Drixx]

My three cards were

one-shot townie

, supersaint, and hider.

I discarded hider.

Guys

I am town

. If you think I am scum for sure, lynch me. The thing is, Keyser does not want me to be lynched because when I flip town, he will look bad.

Definition of One-Shot Townie from the setup article in the wiki: One-shot Townie (If alive at the start of Day 2, turns into a Survivor)

By your own claim you cannot possibly be town. By your slot's claims, you are almost certainly scum.

[Drixx]

I think we're collectively being stupid and getting suckered by Momo, and whomever else is scum is contributing to it.

RC was blocked night one, and we had no kills. There's a wide range of things you can posit for the 2nd kill: someone believed -Grey-'s gambit and withheld a kill. An SK didn't want to reveal themselves to the game straightaway. A solo scum of some type wanted to keep the fact that it was multiball from being known straightaway. I think we have hard claims and no doctor, but maybe someone fibbed and doc saved? This one isn't the case, but the possibility space also includes me being a scum/sk. No matter what we decide about the 2nd kill: withheld strategically, withheld out of fear, stopped by BP/Doc ... that still leaves the

OTHER

kill.

Why on earth would we believe one-shot townie at this point?

Is the sole thing keeping momo alive the supersaint thing? I would suggest if that's the case, we put momo at L-1 and have another suspect hammer. Two birds. One stone. Pretty solid chance we come away from that in a lot better shape.

VOTE: Momo

[Drixx]

No, its cause I am third party. You are not helping town by lynching me. Try and lynch mafia instead.

Click on my name. Then click user's topics. Then find SMITE. Then go look at me winning what was at that time (and may still be?) the longest game in site history as scum claiming to be a 3P. What part of "Momo is suckering us" doesn't make sense? There's even fairly strong evidence for it. RC got roleblocked and that explains one of the missing kills quite nicely. It ALSO explains why RC felt the need to immediately claim he had not acted on night one. He sent in a kill, no kill happened, he shat his pants and claimed to have been suckered by -Grey-'s gambit.

You're caught scum. On the offchance the supersaint crap is true, we just have someone else suspect hammer you.

[Drixx]

LUV is such scum. He's trying to WIFOM me into lynching a townread, and is even implying there's only one scumteam even though we know for certain there must be two. He dies tomorrow.

Unless someone convinces me Drixx or Grey are scum there's no fucking chance I'm lynching a townread over a claimed third party.

@Drixx: We still have to lynch Keyser first to pop his Unlynchable. On the off chance we survive through the night, no fucking way do we go into LyLo with an Unlynchable player.

Looking at the numbers, there are a few possibilities. We live in one of the following worlds:

• 2 member scum team, 1 SK OR 1 different scum
  
• 1 scum, 1 SK or different scum
  
• 1 scum, 1 SK or different scum
  
• 1-2 scum, 1 sk or diff scum, 1 survivor (if momo is not lying, and if we're in this world we are in deep shit)

I am convinced that momo is scum and claiming 3p survivor to make us look elsewhere. I believe the best thing to do is lynch momo and have Keyser hammer. Keyser's unlynchable would be bypassed if momo is really as supersaint.

I just don't think we can afford to leave someone we KNOW is not town, and where we have evidence that their lies line up with the data we have and make it more likely they are scum than the claimed survivor role. Momo as scum makes way more sense with what we know than momo as 3rd party.

Did I miss something or make a bad assumption somewhere?

[Drixx]

VOTE: Momo

You are willing to vote him first, but are you willing to hammer him?

I take it you believe the current claim of Survivor Supersaint?

Wait a fucking minute.

If there are two scum factions remaining, both kills got blocked or didn't happen N1. RC/momo still got roleblocked and Grey claims BP. Five scenarios:

1. RC/momo is a Survivor; Both teams no-killed because of Grey's Mass Redirector fakeclaim
2. RC/momo is scum; Both teams no-killed because of Grey's fakeclaim
3. RC/momo is scum and was blocked, the other scumteam no-killed because of Grey's fakeclaim
4. RC/momo is a Survivor; one scumteam shot Grey and hit the vest, the other no-killed because of Grey's fakeclaim
5. Both teams killed - RC/momo is scum and was blocked, the other scumteam shot Grey and hit the vest

That settles things for me - we lynch Keyser to pop his Unlynchable for potential LyLo tomorrow (there's no pro-town reason to lie at this point, so if he gets lynched from it he'll almost certainly flip scum) then lynch momo for today

Is that how it works? We lynch him and it just resets? For some reason I was thinking he would just escape being lynched and we would go to night phase, and I think that would put us at the mercy of hoping scum crosskill.

[Drixx]

I'm okay with that. Like ... what was such a big deal about 1-shot governor that it needed to be not claimed? That seems to be a really strong thing to have if scum to use on a last day and ensure win. I'm convinced momo is scum for reasons already shared. LUV hammers Momo works for me. I believe that would eliminate 2 scum and could just end the game on the spot with a win.

The one thing to worry about is Scum!Keyser.

As for gladiate: do what you think is best.

[Drixx]

That is not a slip. Just misinterpreted.

This is so fucking bad. Wake up Keyser. We "just misinterpreted" Momo claiming reasons for why HE chose cards? He's clearly just making shit up. Rope it already.

[Drixx]

If we're really going to take the BS claims into account and assume supersaint, then NO townie should hammer because we may not be in a position to afford the trade. I'm guessing -Grey- doesn't believe the Supersaint claim. I'm struggling to understand why you do.

[Drixx]

If we're really going to take the BS claims into account and assume supersaint, then NO townie should hammer because we may not be in a position to afford the trade. I'm guessing -Grey- doesn't believe the Supersaint claim. I'm struggling to understand why you do.

If you think momo's claims are bullshit you hammer .
If you town read Grey don't let him hammer.
If you town read Wraith don't let him hammer.

I don't town read you or wraith. You in particular are sinking like a rock. -Grey- isn't an idiot and I can think of several plausible reasons he wants it to play out the way he has suggested. The fact that the really obvious stuff doesn't appear to have occurred to you is making me wonder what sort of thinking you're doing about the game state. The stuff I

think

-Grey- has in mind should be really obvious if you are making safe assumptions and are trying to keep town wincon alive.

I would advise you to trust -Grey- if you townread him. It's possible if

you

don't see it, then scum don't either, and that's good.

Sometimes you want to be a

little

more subtle than Lucille.

[Drixx]

Actually that's not quite accurate. I do not

strongly

town read you Keyser. I hope you're town because the world where there's only two anti-town and they are separate is the world where we have the best chance to win, and the one in which you have the most likelihood to be town.

[Drixx]

If we're really going to take the BS claims into account and assume supersaint, then NO townie should hammer because we may not be in a position to afford the trade. I'm guessing -Grey- doesn't believe the Supersaint claim. I'm struggling to understand why you do.

If you think momo's claims are bullshit you hammer .
If you town read Grey don't let him hammer.
If you town read Wraith don't let him hammer.

I don't town read you or wraith. You in particular are sinking like a rock. -Grey- isn't an idiot and I can think of several plausible reasons he wants it to play out the way he has suggested. The fact that the really obvious stuff doesn't appear to have occurred to you is making me wonder what sort of thinking you're doing about the game state. The stuff I

think

-Grey- has in mind should be really obvious if you are making safe assumptions and are trying to keep town wincon alive.

I would advise you to trust -Grey- if you townread him. It's possible if

you

don't see it, then scum don't either, and that's good.

Sometimes you want to be a

little

more subtle than Lucille.

Drixx, you SR Keyser. Then vote him. Either you take away unlynchable and prove him innocent or you lynch scum. This is the correct, safe move people.

No. The proper move is to kill you because you're scum. Then we have to hope that you are SOLO scum so that a kill goes away with your lynch.

Not only that ... if I somehow could suspend my disbelief enough to believe your bullshit, I can't trust you as far as I could throw you because a survivor

NEVER

plays favorably to town. You alive tomorrow means we lose because you'll vote wherever you can to end the day and try to end the game alive.

This bill of goods you're trying to sell that you're going to be our savior is bullshit. You need to eat the rope. Period.

[Drixx]

Okay apparently people haven't done the math. There are six of us alive. There are at least 2 scum left, possibly 3.

Momo is caught scum and is almost certainly NOT a supersaint; however, IF he is, then the only world in which we can win is if Momo goes today.

If there are 3 scum left and we use today to test Keyser, there is no possible way we win. That's why I am

exceptionally

suspicious of the people pushing for us to lynch Keyser. That's essentially conceding the game. It's scummy as all fuck.

[Drixx]

There's nothing to dodge. You want me to hammer? I'll hammer. Momo is caught scum and there's no way we can win by lynching Keyser today* (as Keyser and Momo both pushed). If there's 2 scum, it's Keyser and momo. If three, add LUV. Game is solved. Just need someone to nut up and hammer momo and be done with it. LUV stepping up and offering to hammer makes me suspect it's just Keyser and momo, which means we don't lose if the supeursaint thing is true.

I.E. - let's get this shit done.


* - If Keyser's claim is true, lynching him sends us to night phase and we lose unless scum shoot each other, and since scum seem to recognize one another (given that they were both pushing for us to do the thing that ended any chance of town victory), that's not at all likely.

[Drixx]

LOL. Friend just left and I refreshed. You should try and summon me more often. Please point out where I've logically erred, because I believe LUV just solved the game (at least ... if they will actually follow up and hammer, they move to the probtown pile imo).

There's a maths problem though. If momo is really a supersaint, then we lose. If not, then we maybe win. We'll have the numbers to lynch Keyser twice.

If Supersaint, then hammerer dies and one of {You, me, wraith, LUV} dies tonight along with one of them from the supersaint. That would leave only 3 tomorrow, so the two not keyser could get rid of his one shot, but then he kills one and wins.

If not supersaint, then hammerer does not die, there's one more player, and we win if it's only 2 scum.

Ideally Keyser would hammer momo, but there's no world in which I believe he ever would do so because duh ... momo is caught scum and keyser is caught scum.

[Drixx]

No idea how on earth I got tracked to a BP night one and managed not only to win but be alive at the end.

[Drixx]

No idea how on earth I got tracked to a BP night one and managed not only to win but be alive at the end.

The Cop claim gave you a general pass D2 and then the RC drama did the rest.

Did Grey draw BOTH scumkills N1?

Massive roleblocked RC I believe.

[Drixx]

That day one was great. I just kind of sat and laughed when it all washed out.