Mini 1891: Fat Boy Mafia [Over]

[Firebringer]

Is VCA the cool thing to do these days and I wasn't told?

I want to be cool.

[pieg]

not that i know of, i love vca but basically everyone just shits on it

you're already cool tho!

[Firebringer]

not that i know of, i love vca but basically everyone just shits on it

you're already cool tho!

i mean i shit on it too often, but i just think people are using it wrong.
some people use VCA as basis of arguments and I think its supplemental things.

Like "ohhh okay that makes more sense with this additional information"

But anyways, would it help at all I pointed out ThinkBig was also just a lazy scumfuck in White Flag?

[Firebringer]

the latest scum meta is too be really lazy and do nothing.
like theres maybe about 5-6 players I know currently who are ACTIVE scumfucks.
Gin is one of them, but he is very town here imo.

[pieg]

tb's scumplay is the very picture of laziness, yes

oh, uhhhh

i don't actually remember that. i was sring him for just being a fucking scummy motherfucker through and through

like i guess i can sheep you if i can't get any of the wagons i want going and probably won't bc i haven't the carelevels for this game?

[pieg]

anyway why are you being so nice to me *peer*

[Firebringer]

i don't know what you mean friend, i am only nice as scum, so I am obviously not nice here.

[pieg]

[Aj The Epic]

Aj, do you have any solid reads other than on Nos?

Thus far:

Town: Gin, you, desp
lean town: fire, wheme
null: persi
null scum: Pieg, momo

To go more in detail, I'm actually not sure wtf is going on in Pieg's head. Saying my posts look like 'textbook good scumposting' is kinda... bad, since 'good scumposting' looks like townposting. So at bare minimum, she needs to identify a difference between what's town and scum. More importantly, it's very obviously chainsawing from that slot over Nos, who was through most of yesterday hell bent on lynching pieg. There's no reason that defense is warranted, even though the two of them became a voting block after for no real apparent reason.

Like holy fuck, Pieg SCUMREADS NOS by last glance and thinks Nos is trying to bus alz. All of the sudden, she's uptight defending nos and anyone who votes Nos? That being said, Pieg also has kept Nos closer to being lynched than she needed to, even if they're aiming alz first and could pull off lynching a second person once this slot flips town. And Pieg did have a scum read on Pine at one point. Ergo, it's hard to say exactly where Pieg falls for certain, on whether she's having a hard time saying what she means or if she actually is trying to push that noswagon is scumdriven.


I think really quickly discussing wheme might be important, since I have played a completed game with him. Fire modded that game so I'm supposing he's been watching in some way/shape/form too. wheme is a fluff poster, that got heavily scumread D1 due to it and had to role claim out of a lynch scenario (well, actually claimed early at like L-2 or 3). The main thing I noticed is that in bringer mafia, I had to engage wheme to get anything constructive. The same applies here, but no one has actively engaged wheme.

I do get why Fire scumread wheme though. It's why I can't hard townread wheme: Wheme actually had real substance. Yeah a lot of it wasn't great but there was an active attempt to make waves and solve the game. Yeah in that game, Frogger and I were basically leading the town on our merry old way and really were set on our lynches. Here's the issue with my limited exposure to wheme: was it because we prompted Wheme multiple times to give us something that he gave us something, and the nature of the game was less shit-posting that I saw substance? I think this is more likely, as Bringer mafia did have a lot of longer posts that were borderline walls. (Really, I'm still pissed town didn't win that over a fucking lynch I championed d1)...


Other than that, while I'm wary of Gin because there's a lot of talk over how fantastic he's been as town and scum, there still has to be flaws in scumgames and I'm not seeing any issues with his reads or progressions here. Desp's interactions early D1 seemed to be really town with his active engagement around Grey and such. I'd be tempted to SR Persi off of Two-face posts, but I honestly haven't put a lot of thought into Persi's posting to say one way or another.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

VOTE: Nos

[Nosferatu]

Nos's reads have flitted about in a way that really doesn't look like how reads naturally evolve. If nos is claiming that they didn't scumread alz with the original posting on him then the vote on d2 basically came out of nowhere and it's sort of strange in and of itself for a read to evolve from dislike to scumreading in the span of the rest of the day where his vote was resting on wheme and they haven't really said anything meaningful about wheme so far today? They voted alz at daystart and then jumped on fire when he was fluffposting but hasn't mentioned wheme who they made this big 180 on that they emphasized and explained the justificaiton for.

It just feels like nos doesn't actually have a consistent real view of the game that they're going off of. It feels like there's relatively little permanence to things that they're claiming they think, and everything is justified after the fact so they can come up with any justification pretty much.

I mean I thought it was fairly obvious that if someone posts a string of shitty posts and I make a 180 on a read that I voted them for those posts.
I thought it was also pretty obvious that if I don't mention scum reading alz during our interactions that I didn't scum read him because of his interactions. I justify things after the fact cause no one asked me when it was still relevant. If you had questions about the 180, why didn't you take the initiative and ask for it?

and for the second time, I didn't scum read Alz cause I didn't like him.

[implosion]

this push on nos is pretty blatantly scum motivated and the only thing that people are pushing him for is playing transparently clunkily which is not a thing that scum!nos does?

Okay, first, wtf? this is not the only thing that people are pushing him for. Second it's a horrid strawman of one of the things that people are pushing him for. Third, how much meta do you have with nos?

This is like 2nd or 3rd person just saying that Momo is playing like shit.....

wtf is going on here?

He asked if anyone had any questions. I asked him questions in literally the most hard-to-miss way possible (in their own post with his name at the top). He missed them.

He's pretty clearly not reading the game, which is frustrating.

If you had questions about the 180, why didn't you take the initiative and ask for it?

There's a reason I read ISOs. I don't always notice or ascribe significance to things that are worth ascribing significance to the first time I read them - for instance the alz post that I mentioned i really don't like.

and for the second time, I didn't scum read Alz cause I didn't like him.

I pretty explicitly didn't say this?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

There's scum in momo, Nos, AJ.

The fact that no wagon is reaching past 2 or 3 votes more often than not is because scum can't freely push up a mislynch.

That's what the game state looks to be telling me now.

[Nosferatu]

it's sort of strange in and of itself for a read to evolve from dislike to scumreading in the span of the rest of the day

?

[Nosferatu]

If you had questions about the 180, why didn't you take the initiative and ask for it?

There's a reason I read ISOs. I don't always notice or ascribe significance to things that are worth ascribing significance to the first time I read them - for instance the alz post that I mentioned i really don't like.

So its ok for you to assign importance after the fact but it's not ok for me to justify after the fact?

[implosion]

Will explain first one more later on not phone.
Second one, a those are different and b it's about a pattern. You've made so many unjustified jumps that I have difficulty believing that they had a consistent process of scumhunting behind them. It's not about one case of doing something then later explaining why.

[Nosferatu]

Will explain first one more later on not phone.
Second one, a those are different and b it's about a pattern. You've made so many unjustified jumps that I have difficulty believing that they had a consistent process of scumhunting behind them. It's not about one case of doing something then later explaining why.

a. How are they different? Why should I justify something that you obviously didn't care about until someone else brought it up?
b. I still don't see how you don't get it. If anyone, had asked me why I did something, I would've said so. But you didn't. So why do you think it's scummy that I explain something when you ask for it?

[implosion]

First thing thinking more about it is probably not very significant. The bigger point there is that you have managed to

still

not justify your vote or fos on alz, despite talking extensively about what wasn't justifying it. Unless I've missed something but it looks like you just keep talking about what wasn't the justification for it rather than what was.

a. How are they different? Why should I justify something that you obviously didn't care about until someone else brought it up?

Being transparent with at least

some

of your motivations as town is beneficial because it lets others follow your thought process and figure out if you believe the things that you believe for genuine reasons. Me assigning importance after the fact is because I'm not perfect; I miss things and I change my mind sometimes. Comparing the process by which I assess others' play to how you make pushes and state your reads in general is a a non-comparison. The problem isn't that there are some things you didn't justify, I'm willing to accept that, it's that there are so many things you've done like your hop from wheme to alz and from alz to fb that look like they don't have any actual train of thought behind them because you're justifying all of the reasons after the fact and those reasons are sometimes essentially the most basic reason possible (i.e., jumping on fb because you disliked the fact that he was spamming). I don't believe that you have an actual process behind the reads that you're giving; you're keeping your options open and jumping on whatever flavor of the month there is.

I still want to know why you voted alz in the first place, and why you dropped your suspicion of wheme, and why the reasons you fossed alz were worth just dropping wheme, why you thought pressure on fb was worth jumping off of alz. Your play just makes no sense and you can give whatever justifications you want because you've been so opaque. I don't remember your play from any games with you that have gone beyond day one but I just can't see genuine scumhunting behind what you're doing.

b. I still don't see how you don't get it. If anyone, had asked me why I did something, I would've said so. But you didn't. So why do you think it's scummy that I explain something when you ask for it?

I guess this is fair, but (a) the fact remains that I just cannot see your line of thought in this game if you're town and that your jumps are very convenient as scum and (b) there are other reasons that I think you're scum (the early pieg thing, and the more I think about your reaction to the pine PR the more it feels faked).

[Nosferatu]

First thing thinking more about it is probably not very significant. The bigger point there is that you have managed to

still

not justify your vote or fos on alz, despite talking extensively about what wasn't justifying it. Unless I've missed something but it looks like you just keep talking about what wasn't the justification for it rather than what was.

a. How are they different? Why should I justify something that you obviously didn't care about until someone else brought it up?

Being transparent with at least

some

of your motivations as town is beneficial because it lets others follow your thought process and figure out if you believe the things that you believe for genuine reasons. Me assigning importance after the fact is because I'm not perfect; I miss things and I change my mind sometimes. Comparing the process by which I assess others' play to how you make pushes and state your reads in general is a a non-comparison. The problem isn't that there are some things you didn't justify, I'm willing to accept that, it's that there are so many things you've done like your hop from wheme to alz and from alz to fb that look like they don't have any actual train of thought behind them because you're justifying all of the reasons after the fact and those reasons are sometimes essentially the most basic reason possible (i.e., jumping on fb because you disliked the fact that he was spamming). I don't believe that you have an actual process behind the reads that you're giving; you're keeping your options open and jumping on whatever flavor of the month there is.

I still want to know why you voted alz in the first place, and why you dropped your suspicion of wheme, and why the reasons you fossed alz were worth just dropping wheme, why you thought pressure on fb was worth jumping off of alz. Your play just makes no sense and you can give whatever justifications you want because you've been so opaque. I don't remember your play from any games with you that have gone beyond day one but I just can't see genuine scumhunting behind what you're doing.

b. I still don't see how you don't get it. If anyone, had asked me why I did something, I would've said so. But you didn't. So why do you think it's scummy that I explain something when you ask for it?

I guess this is fair, but (a) the fact remains that I just cannot see your line of thought in this game if you're town and that your jumps are very convenient as scum and (b) there are other reasons that I think you're scum (the early pieg thing, and the more I think about your reaction to the pine PR the more it feels faked).

I scum read Alz because of a case pieg made later on in the day. Read the reasoning, read his ISO back, and it was simple as that. Like I (thought I) explained earlier, the Alz wagon had lost momentum and he got replaced, so I figured instead of waiting for his replacement to do something, I should move my vote somewhere else, and so I started to look over at the playerlist. At that time, Fire started a shitposting spree, which I remembered as something scum!Fire would do. Some votes started to pile on, and so that's where I went. Now I've got to move my vote somewhere else, haven't figured out when or who it's gonna switch to.

As for why I stopped suspecting wheme, there was a fair bit of discussion earlier in the day about why he was probably town.

If you can't see my line of thought from my post-fact justifications, well I guess that's just an unfortunate clash of playstyles. I can accommodate for that now, but I can't fix what's already happened. Likewise, I can't do anything about you not liking my interactions with pieg. All I can do is answer questions.

[Nexus]

Fat Boy thought back to the things he'd eaten in the last 24 hours. His mind briefly rested on the McDonald's incident, but he soon shook that off. "Yeah, I've been eating alright Mum," he muttered. "I've got stuff to do - do you need anything else?"

"Oh, just that we're inviting you to dinner tomorrow night," she answered. "Be here by seven."

"Yes mum," Fat Boy sighed.

Votecount 2.5:

Nosferatu (3)

- Aj The Epic, implosion, TheRealGin-N-Tonic

momo (2)

- Firebringer, Whemestar,

Whemestar (2)

- momo, Persivul

Aj The Epic (1)

- pieg

Firebringer (1)

- Nosferatu

Persivul (1)

- Desperado

Not voting (0)

-

Day 2 begins. With 10 alive it takes 6 to lynch. Deadline is in two weeks, at 10am BST on Saturday 8th April 2017 (expired on 2017-04-08 10:00:00)

[Firebringer]

Hey guys what's up, how's life?

[pieg]

VOTE: fire

boo!

[pieg]

meh did i scare you?

VOTE: aj

[Firebringer]

you scared me with that vote.

[pieg]

sorry