Star Wars Rogue One [GAME OVER]

[mastina]

Especially considering that both you and Pine have admitted that it was planned that way.

No, but you see.
You got it wrong.
I wasn't bussing Pine so that I would get town credit.
I wasn't bussing Pine because I thought Pine would go down.
I was fucking bussing Pine because I thought *I* was going down.

So your reasoning was exactly the fucking

opposite

of accurate.
I was bussing Pine because I was expecting Heartless and Infinity to drive a lynch through on ME. Infinity had me nailed dead to rights that this was my scumgame. Heartless had my slot nailed and when I came in my presence did nothing to weaken their read on me. Between them, I was under the impression I was a walking deadwoman, so the plan was for me to make sure that my attacks against Pine would set Pine up to survive.

There was ZERO plan for Pine to die. He was our fucking endgame player. (So was Aeronaut, btw. The plan was me to die, and Pine to live, with Aeronaut too. Titus was semi-expendable as well, but I knew I was the least-valuable member of my team.) There was EVERY intention for ME to die. I was the person who was most obviously scum of our team and I was the person who was most obviously going down first.

Pine breaking into the rogue crew had literally NOTHING to do with this, because that was something we did expecting Pine/Gin to talk their way out of and they fucking WERE talking their way out of it.

Then the guilty happened and all our plans went up in smoke. (By the way, goddammit, Drunken Piper, you magnificent bastard you. You have no fucking idea just how much you wrecked the scum's plan.)
But the simple fact is you WEREN'T right.
You couldn't have been more wrong.

I joined expecting to die.
Not expecting to be the final scum.

[Nero Cain]

ok? I'm not really getting it. You were scum and you pushed Pine with no reasoning and I correctly identified it as that. It doesn't really matter what the scum plan was.

[mastina]

Didn't help that peregrine tried to make himself IC confirmed and town spotted his lie.

Fun fact: if it weren't for the town spotting the lie, the scum (by which I mean, me) were basically going, "Fuck fuck FUCK" at that reveal and it would have worked brilliantly.

While it ended up backfiring because town spotted the lie, had they not, the scum sure as fuck didn't. It had me fooled until I had reason to doubt it.

[mastina]

She was my first scum read after I replaced in....

Which is why the prospect of you as conftown terrified me so much and why I was laughing my ass off that the player who frankly was almost our next nightkill even

without

the reveal was being lynched.

[mastina]

Tbh, Mastina was head scum not me. I was pretty demotivated. The kills were to help her, not me.

Not true. Pine was the head scum. When he died, I inherited the role of head scum, but I left many cheeky scumfuck comments in-thread (which you can find in my game iso) where I said, "this is YOUR scumgame, not MINE". And I meant it! Pine was our leader.

I

suggested

the Molla vanillaize, but he was the one who submitted it (okay so technically it was Gin); I

suggested

the Nacho nightkill, but I wasn't the one to send the message to Firebringer. (That was Gin technically, but Pine slot all the same.) If you look at the early PT pre-guilty, Pine (with a side of Gin) was our driving force. I happened to beat Pine to the punch in suggesting a lot of ideas, but he was the one who really fleshed them out and put the work into them. He also gained leadership back when I revived him since he was the one formulating the plan for us. This really was Pine's scumgame, not mine.

[mastina]

Mastina didn't react AT ALL to PV being town
That's sketch af

To be fair. I had real-life. I wasn't going to react regardless of my alignment. I figured that a town-me would have a chance to react to anything pertinent come morning unless nightkilled, and if nightkilled a town-me would have a last will. As a result, a scum me didn't need to react. That was a real-life thing, not a scum thing.

[mastina]

ive never seen mastin play scum this way

That's because I wasn't supposed to be the endgame scum player! I play in entirely different ways depending on:
-Whether I am aiming to die (this game)
-Whether I am aiming for a perfect/near-perfect game (most games)
-Whether I am aiming to be the last scum alive (not this game, and not most games, but some games).

The thing is, because I almost never am aiming to die it's the version of my scumgame people see least often. Literally the one and only other time I've done this much distancing/bussing was Left 4 Dead. (Which is why my heart skipped a beat when Molla actually brought that game up, because he had every fucking reason to do so and was absolutely right about it being the same plan.)

[mastina]

If mastina had more influence though, town would be fucked

Yeah that's the thing though.

As scum, I know I'm not going to be listened to--people don't listen to me as town, so when I am scum I very explicitly exploit this. I use people not listening to me to push things which look good, yet I know won't actually go through. I've weaponized a lack of influence. So as scum. I don't win by getting people to follow me. I win by letting other players do the leading with me staying on the sidelines. I was on the sidelines for TheThinker. I was intended to be on the sidelines for Pine. (The guilty fucked that up.) I was on the sidelines for SirCakez. Basically most of the mislynches I was doing my own thing on, while still letting them go through.

I don't need to influence games as scum. I win specifically because I let town tear themselves apart. It might not be as glorious a tactic as charging in and power-lynching town after town after town. But it's simple, it's pragmatic, and most of all, it fucking WORKS.

[Desperado]

hi molla

why did you even sign up for this game?????

[mastina]

Mastin not having influence as scum means she's playing like shit

Quite the contrary. People think that good scumplay requires being at the forefront of discussion. It does not. The ideal level of influence for scum is "enough to not become an obvious lynch when people want to look for lynches in players doing fuckall, but NOT enough to be the main proponent of this idea". Middle-of-the-road influence: enough where you are making some noise and impacting the game, but not enough where you're the one who is most obviously the cause of continuous town deaths.

For influencing the game, scum use the nightkill. That was how I controlled the game. I didn't have to control the day; I just controlled the way things went during the night.

[Desperado]

i don't think you really believe that

[Desperado]

like in this game all you could muster was NK influence

but optimal scum play obviously includes controlling the day phase

[mastina]

but optimal scum play obviously includes controlling the day phase

Yes it does!
But optimal scumplay involves holding (lowish-)middle-of-the-road

influence

over the day.
The two should not be confused as being synonymous.

You can control how the game goes as a lurker.
You cannot influence how the game goes as a lurker.

Optimal scum play involves controlling the day, and we largely accomplished that. Very specifically, we were keeping things from heading in one particular direction. (For instance, one influence on our nightkills? Keeping the number of players with scumreads on scum balanced--specifically, many players scumread 2/3 scum and townread a third, just having WHICH 2/1 be different. We wanted to keep it from becoming too unanimous, since if everyone agreed on two correct scumreads even if the third was wrong, then that town unity would be devastating and by and large we kept that from happening, which was my main concern.)

There were certain things we couldn't control, this is true. Heartless had very strong influence on MoI/zefiend being scum, and that was not something we could safely challenge. (Going for a 3-man win would likely have ensured that the town won.) But we controlled more than we did not control, even though we influenced a whole lot less. From the get-go, we were in control of the game. The Pine guilty fucked that control up, but it didn't remove it altogether. It just made it so that we had to work harder to actively maintain the gamestate we wanted.

[mastina]

I disagree, I think she thinks it's optimal at least and is doing it for towncred

Correct! It was in fact optimal.
I just figured that there was no harm done to me no matter who I killed or didn't kill.
It was the best of the three available strategies (no-lynching would've been abysmal for town; lynching would've lynched either Molla or TWIE in that 4p mylo), but it was still not something which actually hurt me to suggest, while it was something that theoretically was beneficial to the town, thus, towncred.

[mastina]

You gut was definitely in the right place, you said some good reasons to scumread mastina but I disagreed with a lot of them.

So fucking much this.

Honestly Nero if you just didn't bother to give any reasons (because most reasons you give are absolute bullshit) and just blurted out who the scum are, you'd be a much stronger player. Your accuracy wouldn't be 100%. But if your reasons weren't so shitty, you'd get a lot less flak for your reads which ARE right.

[mastina]

Btw mastina isn't explaining her plans in the scum chat so I'm just as in the dark about her plans as ya'll are.

I thought I was pretty clear about what I was doing and why?

[Nero Cain]

Do what you need to do to grieve.

[mastina]

mastina is now yelling at me again.

Point of clarity, as my thank-you said afterwords, I wasn't so much yelling at you as I was yelling at the setup, because if you hadn't given me the information I had asked for, then I would've been absolutely fucked; TWIE would've caught me right then and there and I'd have been lynched. (I lacked information about how Firebringer would word something, so I was ranting that this is the sort of thing which I felt should've been immediately available. To be fair. I as a mod am guilty of this myself, but I still bitch about it as a player which is one reason I don't mind the players bitching at me when I mod since I know I'd do the same in their place. )

[mastina]

Just thinking, mastina doesn't wait this long in any town game to vote.

Actually, I do. Steven Universe 2 tells you as much.
Not that you're wrong though. It was a scumclaim--because I wasn't willing to cast the

first

vote. THAT part? Yeah that was scummy. In Steven Universe 2 I was conftown so me not being the first vote made sense. Here, not so much.

I'd have voted before dance. Not a moment sooner, but also not a moment later.

[Infinity 324]

If mastina had more influence though, town would be fucked

Yeah that's the thing though.

As scum, I know I'm not going to be listened to--people don't listen to me as town, so when I am scum I very explicitly exploit this. I use people not listening to me to push things which look good, yet I know won't actually go through. I've weaponized a lack of influence. So as scum. I don't win by getting people to follow me. I win by letting other players do the leading with me staying on the sidelines. I was on the sidelines for TheThinker. I was intended to be on the sidelines for Pine. (The guilty fucked that up.) I was on the sidelines for SirCakez. Basically most of the mislynches I was doing my own thing on, while still letting them go through.

I don't need to influence games as scum. I win specifically because I let town tear themselves apart. It might not be as glorious a tactic as charging in and power-lynching town after town after town. But it's simple, it's pragmatic, and most of all, it fucking WORKS.

You have a lot more influence than the average player, that's for sure

[mastina]

Do you think anyone read my last will?

I did, but I sure as fuck wasn't going to deal with the shit in there unless I was given good reason to.

But believe me if I was given reason to your last will would've backfired and made me more town thanks to my response to it.
I held back because I figured there wasn't a need to respond to it since apparently nobody else was and that suited me just fine. Less work on my part. (Basically I could've responded and gotten extra towncred for it, but it just...wasn't worth the effort.)

[mastina]

TWIE asks Mastina who she'd nk and Mastina WK's him and says she WOULDN'T kill him. Why is that not a scum claim. lol

Because I have been asked that same exact question by players when I have been town

and answered it

.
TWIE was asking a question he knew that I would give a reasonably good answer to regardless of my alignment. It's not something which I could only answer as scum.

I can, have, and DO answer scum-specific questions as town.
In fact, something people commonly ask me to do is to give an example of situational awareness for the current game if I were scum: for me to write the psychological profile outlying the strengths/weaknesses of that player and how to handle them. I will make it clear that I can only take my best guess...but then I oblige them and write one anyway.

I am incredibly self-aware as town and it is for that reason that I can be self-aware as scum.

[Infinity 324]

That's fine, as long as you actually do reassess.

UNVOTE:

I think this is fine given titus's playstyle.

However, something bothered me about pine's first post and he continues to seem somewhat fake.

VOTE: pine

it feels off to have a strong personality saying she caught scum right out the gate but have the level-head to produce VCA which apparently she's good at doing.

This is titus in a nutshell

ok I like that posting enough. Still am kinda concerned about the early stuff but I'll let it go for now

VOTE: AJ

Like thinkbig said, they're fluffing it up

You like your VCA don't you

Does CWing mean anything to you this early?

I need flips. I can theorize with wagons but please don't try to "help" with my VCA with your votes. Just vote. Trying to help or get me to VCA on page 1 is creepy as fuck and your push on Pine reeks of desperation.

If you don't like VCA page 1, why did you vote me?

Your reaction here seems overblown.

VOTE: titus

That's fine, as long as you actually do reassess.

UNVOTE:

I think this is fine given titus's playstyle.

However, something bothered me about pine's first post and he continues to seem somewhat fake.

VOTE: pine

Hrmm

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Well I'll be, Mastina was scum lol

Wish I hadn't replaced out now

[Nero Cain]

I still don't get why you are so angry. Your reason less strong arm push on Pine was scummy. Maybe I didn't get "the plan" and ok you DIDN'T do it b/c Pine joined the crew so ok I can be wrong about that but pointing out that the Pine push didn't make sense coming from town was still right.

And the two reasons in the last will were pure scum posting from you.