Mini Normal 1897: Chocolate Mafia - Game Over

[horrordude0215]

Hey y'all, happy to be here. Will read through the thread and post my thoughts tonight or tomorrow.

[horrordude0215]

I replaced into this game on page 9 for a reason... you all decide to give me an extra 18 pages overnight? Fuck youuuuuuuu.

I'm doing my readthrough now, expect a post up by tonight.

[horrordude0215]

HEY IF YOU ALL COULD STOP POSTING FOR 5 SECONDS SO I CAN ACTUALLY GET CAUGHT UP THAT'D BE FUCKING GREAT.

I'll just be going through the thread, providing commentary and giving my thoughts on things I go. This usually resorts to walls of text, but you all just made me read 28 pages soooooo... not fucking sorry.

- SS opens up with a miller claim. Game's getting interesting already, but the claim itself is NAI. Claiming in your first post is how you're supposed to play it.
- I'm not thrilled with 31 by Boon. Something about emphasizing how much WIFOM comes into play seems disingenuous.
- TB's 48 is also problematic for me. Saying that there's no reason not to believe a Miller claim just because it was claimed in the first post (which is what you're supposed to do) is terrible. If a town Miller doesn't claim until after the investigation, it looks fake simply because they should have claimed it in the beginning and avoided the wasted investigation altogether. Looks like scum buddying up to town to me.

23 - Votes ThinkBig instead for believing the claim UNVOTE: aronagrundy
VOTE: rb

This is also a horrible reason to vote for someone, because rb clearly explained his vote in 26. OMGUS?

I'd rather pretend the claim never happened and judge him based how he actually plays. If he looks like scum, I'll lynch him. If he doesn't, I won't.

This is how you're supposed to play a Miller claim from town.

HEAL: ThinkBig

HEAL: rb

Transcend is scum

Huh? I've seen enough of Transcend's games to know he usually pulls shit like this. How is something like that AI?

For reference transcend has checked into the thread and posted THREE seperate times now and has posted nothing but unexplained votes, that is suspect as hell to me.

That's Transcend.

VOTE: TwoFace

Okay, now I take it all back. Get your shit together.

the fact transcend is l-1 already means he's probably town

This is crap, and you know it.

Transcend claims while at L-2 because........ yeah, I've got nothing. You can claim confirmable all you want, but it doesn't mean anything until you're actually confirmed. I've seen games when someone claims confirmable to get out of a D1 lynch and then "zomgIwasblocked" D2.

Eager's 235 sucks because (backup) watcher =/= no miller. Hell, we could be looking at a troll setup... miller with no cops, backups without the primary role, etc. But setup speculation Day 1 kind of sucks, so let's not do it.

TB "believed the claim" on page 1. This is before we knew anything about a "power rich environment"

Now in this post on page 12, he says the reason he believes the claim is that it looks like a "power rich environment".

If he was town, how did he know it was a power rich environment - LESS THAN 25 POSTS INTO THE GAME.

Lynch with extreme prejudice

This is a misrep. TB first said that he believed the claim on Page 1 because he didn't have any reason not to, which is terrible reasoning, but he said nothing about a power rich environment. We've had some more information show up about potential setup info, which means it's totally reasonable for someone who was already leaning towards believing the claim to now be more solidified in his read.

because I go into every game and try to outguess the mod before the game starts.

do you think Smart is scum trying to coast on a Day 1 miller claim? What would you have preferred he do as a miller?

but how do you know he's miller?

This is just bad. Boon is asking what he would do

as

a miller. He's already stated he believes the claim, but nobody is saying anything about knowing anything at this point.

We have a backup watcher, which means there's probably a watcher. Then the other one is probably Transcend

My role is not watcher, i just said that I'm confirmable. Watcher is NOT confirmable

Try again.

- Transcend in 466 declares himself King after declaring himself confirmable earlier in the day. Wow, I've

never

seen scum try to do those things before!

actually if twoface doesn't cut his shit i'm just gonna replace out and let someone who can handle his insufferable-ness commandeer my slot

Ironic.

RB, EagerSnake, and TB are obv-town.

They're contributing, have their try-hard pants on, and are the driving force behind the game.

Transcend is also probably town

, since he's making a ton of sense so far and is pushing a lot of pro-town objectives.

What. The. Hell?

No. No. No. No. No. Transcend has made 0 sense all game, and leading town doesn't mean obvtown. Come on hap, you're better than this.

Who's more likely to be mafia? The two idiots screaming at each other in thread, or the guys in the background letting it happen?

This thread exploded overnight. There have been 18 pages since I replaced in on page 9 less than 24 hours ago. It would make total sense that scum bould be leading town here.

JSYK I think it's p dumb to lynch someone who claimed confirmable u_u

Ummmm.... The last game we were in, you were voting someone on D1 that claimed confirmable.

also if im lol hammered vig/lynch the hammered

You have 2 votes on you?

Like in what world does a townie go "Player X is confirmed mafia, but let's lynch Player Y instead"?

+1 to this though


COOL I'M FINALLY FUCKING CAUGHT UP. I REALLY LIKE RB/TRANSCEND SCUM LIKE MANY OF Y'ALL (BEST TOWN PERFORMANCE SCUMMY ANYONE?), SO MY MAIN FOCUS AT THE MOMENT IS ON THE 3RD MEMBER. I ONLY REALLY FOCUS ON SCUMREADS, DON'T ASK ME TO OUT MY NULL/TOWNREADS BECAUSE I WON'T BECAUSE IT'S A FUCKING TERRIBLE IDEA.

Eddie - For someone with 57 posts in this game, you've got absolutely nothing to show for it. You FoS'd ThinkBig after 194, and then gave no reason for your suspicions... and current excuse for not voting is because you don't sheep cases. While that is admirable from a town perspective, from a scum perspective it looks like you don't want to actually commit to anything.

Arona - You've got even less content than Eddie, but I'm really hoping you're going to blow me out of the water with your next post considering 16 pages have passed since you were on last.

I Am Innocent - This game's moving at a fast pace, but it would be nice if you joined us for it.


VOTE: Transcend This is L-1.

You don't get to claim confirmable, post some BS reads list, and troll the rest of the game. I've seen scumhunting out of your other games, but I see absolutely none of it here.

[horrordude0215]

Eddie, have you forgotten how to use quotes? It's kind of really annoying not being able to link to the posts you're quoting.

I was referring to the fact that you voted CloudKicker after he had claimed that bizarre confirmable role. But you were scum that game, so point rescinded.

[horrordude0215]

Eddie, leaving Transcend at "pseudo L-1" does nothing, because the whole point of L-1 is pressuring a slot to produce content and claim. Transcend has no reason not to do that if he's not actually at L-1. An lolhammer at that point would essentially be a scumclaim, so he's not at any risk of not being able to post before lynch.

[horrordude0215]

RB, you've spent most of the game tunneling on ThinkBig and wasting page after page on setup spec. Then out of nowhere you vote TF just because he called himself the most townie person in the game, saying it was a scumclaim. Can you elaborate on that?

[horrordude0215]

Eddie, leaving Transcend at "pseudo L-1" does nothing, because the whole point of L-1 is pressuring a slot to produce content and claim. Transcend has no reason not to do that if he's not actually at L-1. An lolhammer at that point would essentially be a scumclaim, so he's not at any risk of not being able to post before lynch.

what it does is prevent a lol or self hammer

An lolhammer without asking for a claim is a scumclaim.

Self hammer? Are you fucking serious? You've been townreading Townscend the entire game... in what universe would Town Townscend selfhammer?

[horrordude0215]

wait, tf claimed he was the most townie person? I cc

yeah, it's obviously me.

Um, I just read through almost 30 pages in one sitting. I'm

clearly

the towniest.

[horrordude0215]

Um, I just read through almost 30 pages in one sitting. I'm

clearly

the towniest.

he thats pretty towny, did i put u on my townread list[/quote]You did, although I am still scumreading you pretty hard.

Can you please elaborate on your TF Case? The only thing that I can see that was his "scumclaim" as you put it was his post that he was obvtown. I'm failing to see the correlation.

[horrordude0215]

Transcend, how the

fuck

does that CC Miller in any way? If anything it could be used to clear a miller after a guilty claim by cop. Your claim makes no sense with how you've been reading SS all game.

[horrordude0215]

ThinkBig - he claimed weak, which means he dies if he targets mafia.

It still doesn't prove confscum like Transcend has been screaming all day though.

[horrordude0215]

Weak affix =/= Counterclaim for miller.

[horrordude0215]

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... y_Neighbor

Let's see if we can verify this with BlackVoid.

Yeah, because the mod is totally going to confirm this information...

[horrordude0215]

Friendly neighbor is not confirmable, it's not a counterclaim to milller, and it certainly wouldn't point to SS confirmed scum... I don't buy it.

No need to replace him. We can hang him instead.

[horrordude0215]

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=64916

Friendly neighbor in this game, no indication of them getting a PT.

[horrordude0215]

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=64916

Friendly neighbor in this game, no indication of them getting a PT.

This was a normal game btw.

[horrordude0215]

Self hammering as town is playing against your win condition. Period. This had better be a scum move.

[horrordude0215]

Hey all, just a reminder that I'm V/LA on weekends. Will be back on Monday.

[horrordude0215]

...15 pages over the weekend. I hate all of you.

I'll actually do in depth reading a little later, but for now I see we're mass claiming?

I'm a neighborizer, I neighborized boon last night.

[horrordude0215]

@horror -please quote the specific things you said in the pt that boon is town reading. you can quote things YOU say in the pt, just not what OTHER people say.

Still rereading, just addressing this now... I'm gonna confirm with the mod about this one first before I quote things.

[horrordude0215]

Like I said, I'm gonna confirm with the mod first. I'm not about to get modkilled if he considers it a violation.

[horrordude0215]

Cool I'm back.

Eddie is basically claiming vig. Why would the mafia choose to kill IAA, a slot that has posted only once?

Nightkill analysis is pure WIFOM.

I actually TR him from day1 as well despite low activity but I'm worried if he's scum he's gonna slip by

Can you really say I'm inactive? I replaced in yesterday, posted a giant ass wall of text, and was active until the end of the day.

Just want to verify - is there any possible way for mafia to have more than one KP at night?

What the fuck kind of post is this?

Everyone out a hypothetical watch result so the real watcher can safely crumb

My hypothetical result would be that horrordude0125 targeted Boonskiies

Hey Eager, I want you to hardclaim right now whether or not you're actually backup. Thanks.

Theory: Scum team is probably mostly offf of the transcend wagon. The last place the scum team wants to be found is on a friendly neigjbor's wagon

UNVOTE: rb
VOTE: horrordude

orly

[horrordude0215]

I'm 90% sold on hapscum right now.

Hap spends all of Day 1 pushing Eddie/Transcend scumteam. Yet, when Transend get puts at L-1 the following situation occurs:

hi hapahauli can u please unvote and leave him at pseudo l-1

UNVOTE:

Not a bad idea.

You take the (terrible) advice of one of your top scumreads... You

unvote

another scumread who is at L-1, thereby relieving him of the pressure of having to claim...and then 3 posts later:

VOTE: Transcend ur l-1, full claim or die

intent to hammer

ofc.

This is crap, and needs rope.

[horrordude0215]

When did Boon get added to the hood? During the night or when the mod opened the game for day 2?

Day 2.

[horrordude0215]

Also, just because I read someone as mafia in the moment doesn't mean that everything they post is bad. I thought Transcend was mafia. I didn't want him to get INSTAHAMMERED. What is difficult about this to understand?

Instahammers are basically scumclaims. Transcend hadn't brought up the self-hammering at that point iirc. Removing him from L-1 means that he doesn't have to claim. This is bullshit.

[horrordude0215]

Also, just because I read someone as mafia in the moment doesn't mean that everything they post is bad. I thought Transcend was mafia. I didn't want him to get INSTAHAMMERED. What is difficult about this to understand?

Instahammers are basically scumclaims. Transcend hadn't brought up the self-hammering at that point iirc. Removing him from L-1 means that he doesn't have to claim. This is bullshit.

Instant hammers are definitely not scumclaims. I'd be amazed if you haven't seen a townie hammer someone in a nonsensical spot give your experience with this game.

I have seen instahammers from town. I have also seen that person be lynched the next day virtually every single time because of it. There is almost no protown reason to instahammer.

And removing him from L-1 absolutely doesn't do anything, when it's

very clear

that I intend to vote him, and the town has repeatedly been telling him to claim for like 15 pages.

Yes it does, because intent to vote =/= a vote at the time. With how Transcend plays you honestly think he would claim outside of L-1?

[horrordude0215]

I have confirmation I'm not allowed to quote anything from the neighborhood topic into the thread. I can paraphrase that before Boon joined my neighborhood I had commented that I was nulltown reading him but I had picked up his PR Crumbs and I wanted to take a closer look at him. Boon can confirm this if he wishes.

[horrordude0215]

Also, all of these PR claims can make total sense if we have scum RBs, Ninjas, etc. We should be lynching among the VT claims today.

With that, VOTE: hapahauli

[horrordude0215]

Eddie, if you weren't clear I'd be sure you're scum.

Why are you arguing semantics like this? I PM'd the mod and he made a decision. I was just the messenger.

[horrordude0215]

did boon claim cop in the hood before the thread?

Yes. He confirmed that I was reading his crumbs correct when he was added.

[horrordude0215]

Also, just because I read someone as mafia in the moment doesn't mean that everything they post is bad. I thought Transcend was mafia. I didn't want him to get INSTAHAMMERED. What is difficult about this to understand?

Instahammers are basically scumclaims. Transcend hadn't brought up the self-hammering at that point iirc. Removing him from L-1 means that he doesn't have to claim. This is bullshit.

Instant hammers are definitely not scumclaims. I'd be amazed if you haven't seen a townie hammer someone in a nonsensical spot give your experience with this game.

I have seen instahammers from town. I have also seen that person be lynched the next day virtually every single time because of it. There is almost no protown reason to instahammer.

Ok. Then you're admitting that this entire line of argument is complete bullshit?

If townies can hammer in this spot, then my reasons for removing my vote are valid. Plain and simple.

Oh please, just because townies can hammer, it doesn't mean that there is any reason to expect anyone in this game would instahammer. Removing your vote just looks like fence sitting.

[horrordude0215]

I have seen instahammers from town.

it doesn't mean that there is any reason to expect anyone in this game would instahammer.

r u 4 rela

omg please don't be this dumb. Just because I've seen it (primarily with newer players), doesn't mean there is any indication that anyone on this playerlist would do it.

[horrordude0215]

Horror, who on this player list have you played with before?

Eddie is the only one I have a completed game with.

[horrordude0215]

Horror, who on this player list have you played with before?

Eddie is the only one I have a completed game with.

So if you don't know anyone here, how can you draw the conclusion that this town is not likely to quickhammer?

Because this has been one of the most in depth and active playerlists I've ever played in. Based on the posts in thread, I can't list a single person that I think would be likely to quickhammer.

In case you need a simpler explanation: I don't need 5 games of meta with each player to know they're not stupid enough to lolhammer someone D1 without a claim.

[horrordude0215]

@ Horror - or another thing... how can you make claims about what Transcend is and isn't likely to do at L-1 without having played with him?

Active game. Can't comment.

[horrordude0215]

Okay fine, prove me wrong. Tell me who you were so terrified was going to swoop in and instahammer Transcend without giving him a chance to claim or defend himself at all.

[horrordude0215]

Rip me.

I have a huge propensity to OMGUS, but I legitimately don't know how you can say what horror is saying if you actually read the thread.

Also, he's repeatedly calling me dumb, which makes very little sense if he thinks I'm mafia. I should be scummy and pushing an agenda. Dumb implies that I'm town.

Misrep much? I said that your whole "unvote because ohnoquickhammer" defense is bullshit. I'm not calling

you

dumb, I'm calling your "defense" dumb.

[horrordude0215]

The point isn't that town has never quickhammered in any game ever. The point is that no one in this game would have been dumb enough to do it.

Please read the fucking thread.

[horrordude0215]

Apparently I'm the only person on this site that has never quickhammered.

Like honestly, does arona's filter strike you as someone cautious enough not to quickhammer? Or Something_Smart (to that point, he had posted almost nothing of substance)? RB was generally being wild and crazy, and was not defending Transcend when I posted what I did.

I legitimately don't know how you hold these opinions if you actually read the thread as you claimed.

You can't justify that any of those people would quickhammer

as town

.

I'm done with this back and forth.

[horrordude0215]

If you thought that Transcend being at L-1 was such a horrible thing because "Oh no! Someone may come in and quickhammer him!", then you should have jumped on eager's case when he did the same thing

the very next post

and say that?

Instead, you just state an intent to hammer and move on. Your defense right now makes absolutely no sense considering the context with which you handled yourself Day 1.

And finally, please don't use the R word with me, certainly not as an attempted insult. It's ridiculously offensive and completely unnecessary.

[horrordude0215]

What does the neighborhood even do to help scumhunting?

...seriously? It can form a townbloc when used correctly, or help get reads on people that you haven't fully sorted yet. You can't actually imply that the role isn't beneficial to scum hunting.

[horrordude0215]

Did you actually carefully read all 30 pages of the game? Be honest.

No, I just pulled a wall of text out of my ass when I replaced in Day 1.

[horrordude0215]

Also horror, are you a normal neighborizer, or do you have any modifiers? (Weak, 1-shot, etc)?

Nope. Boring ol' neighborizer.

[horrordude0215]

Two things Horror:

1) I'd still like you to address #1423.
2) Who are your other scumreads? Even if you think I'm conf-scum, there are still two scumbuddies to find. I'm particularly interested in your thoughts on arona and SS.

1)

I liked the situation where Transcend was at L-1, and I had made it abundantly clear to everyone in the thread that I was ready to quick hammer. That's a situation where I know I'm in control, everyone knows that Transcend can be hammered, and that other townies will be less incentivized to do the quick hammer themselves.

That is far better than a situation where Transcend is at L-1 with my vote, and no one had given intent to hammer. For all I know, some random person walks in and quickhammers and poof day is done.

I have a feeling we're going to disagree until we're blue in the face about whether or not it makes sense that town was at risk of quickhammering. This, however.... actually makes sense. I still don't townread you by a longshot, but I'll give you this point.

2) I don't like rb... he's probably my #2 read. I'm not thrilled with what arona has done most of the game either, and your initial case on him earlier in the day can look like a D2 bus attempt from an association perspective (which means nothing until flips come into play, ofc). SS - I think I've probably given him a pass considering I believe the claim, but I haven't seen much that has given me a scumread? I'll ISO those two right now and see if anything tickles me the wrong way.

[horrordude0215]

SS ISO

ISO 0 - Claims Miller
ISO 8-20 - Almost entirely setup spec
ISO 35 - Votes Eddie for hard pushing the Miller D2 Policy lynch.
Seems to only really produce cases/content when pressured.
ISO 58 and 61 - These are the only times I can see in his ISO when SS has really pushed a case on someone rather than just providing passive commentary on the game.

The main reason why I haven't focused on him so far is because I believe the miller claim, but he needs to step up and produce some more content, like now.

Arona ISO

...okay, there has been even less from this slot than from SS, which I didn't think was possible. I can't see anything in this ISO that even remotely resembles scumhunting, save ISO 6 when he voted rb for having a "convoluted case" on page 3.

Hap, you can have some breathing room for now.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: aronagrundy

[horrordude0215]

Eager, so far your whole reasoning for TR Arona has been because he posts a lot in a day. But please look at his ISO and tell me where on earth you're getting any sort of townread from the content

in

the posts.

[horrordude0215]

sorry I'm still salty about that lynch

why nobody unvoted

why they put him BACK to L-1 after I unvoted

why he self-hammered

#stayingsalty

Not wanting to entirely go back to this, but I don't see how having Transcend alive would have been productive to town in any way today.

[horrordude0215]

I'm talking content-wise... Transcend as clear would just open the floodgates of shitposting. But that's neither here nor there at this point.

[horrordude0215]

Eager, so far your whole reasoning for TR Arona has been because he posts a lot in a day. But please look at his ISO and tell me where on earth you're getting any sort of townread from the content

in

the posts.

Can you address this please, eager?

[horrordude0215]

Okay everyone seriously, we're dropping the Transcend stuff now. That lynch has come and gone, and going back and forth about whether it was deserved/a good idea/etc., will get us absolutely nowhere. Let's move on to the current game.

[horrordude0215]

Eager, boon has been pushing scum watcher since Day 1... he's been calling you scum a lot more than rb.

[horrordude0215]

He's only at L-2 and with all the talk of quickhammers between hap and myself it would be terrible. But just in case.

Any quickhammers before Arona has a chance to come in and claim (assuming he gets put at L-1) will be treated as a scum claim and will be lynched tomorrow. No exceptions.

[horrordude0215]

Arona has been at L-1 and pressured because of POE, but mainly because of his lack of content all game. I expected when he came back yesterday to actually produce something worthwhile...

Instead, we get some bullshit reads list with absolutely no justification and more contentless posting.

Arona, if you want to out your buddies before hammer you could save us all a lot of time.

[horrordude0215]

TB, your attempts at pressuring me have made absolutely no sense. Your whole thought process is based on claims and setup spec rather than content.

Boon and I added Darkshadow to the neighborhood because of Boon's cop clear.

[horrordude0215]

Lylo is the only time I ever believe in fully outing reads lists. Boon has probably been towniest person in the game, therefore Darkshadow is town by correlation.

Scum is between ThinkBig, Something_Smart, eagerSnake, rb.

{TB, Eager, RB} is my best bet, and barring a miracle I will not be voting outside of that lynch pool.

[horrordude0215]

TODAY IS LYLO. PLEASE HOLD YOUR VOTES!

This feels disingenuous to me.

[horrordude0215]

RB, get your shit together and unvote. It's lylo.

[horrordude0215]

I'm getting a pretty long fucking post together right now, but the tl;dr version is we have eager/tbscum at least, with you and SS switching back and forth for the 3rd.

[horrordude0215]

I'm not opposed to voting you either, RB. You're far from a townread in my eyes.

[horrordude0215]

I want to know why Eddie never once vigged SS, honestly. Vigging the miller claims is usually the best way to play it, no?

[horrordude0215]

rb - I'm still getting other thoughts together, but I'm going to hop in and say that the watcher claim appears to be legit. Either that or eager got lucky as all hell with his fake claim that I targeted boon n1.

[horrordude0215]

The question surrounding Eager is whether he's townwatcher or scumwatcher (which I'm reading right now)

[horrordude0215]

Assume ur in this hypo scum team as eager or SS, what makes you decide to claim these 2 things?

RB why would SS as scum decide to claim Miller in the first place...?

It's a fakeclaim, and a bad one that we unfortunately can't policy because eddie shot 2 townies

I can see a scum claiming miller, watcher + miller from a scumteam us outside my realm of exp and I don't see why a scumteam would do it

Scum watcher means that scum has the ability to hunt for town PRs. Miller isn't a totally irrational fakeclaim if scum has a watcher, because you can logically conclude that if scum have a watcher, town has investigative role to counter it.

[horrordude0215]

Eager + SS aren't scum partners imo

Then it's probably horror with eager/tb. I think I got pocketed too hard in the neighborhood.

You're going to have to elaborate on this one a bit, boon.

[horrordude0215]

well I was blocked

I watched eddie and got no result

GGA.

[horrordude0215]

FYI - the reason why my fucklong post is still incoming is because I'm doing full ISO reads of rb, Eager, SS, and TB. I mistakenly started with rb, who has 280 fucking posts in this game.

[horrordude0215]

FYI - my wall of text post is still incoming, just slightly delayed. I was doing it at work but had to actually work for a bit and now I have to head to rehearsal.

I'll be back to post it later tonight.

[horrordude0215]

Huge Wall of Fucking Text incoming:

My thoughts are as follows. The Transcend lynch was such a ridiculous fail, it's almost

too

easy to push the lynch as scum driven. I have a tendency to think that scum would want to stay as far away from it as possible. There is a 0% chance that all 3 scum were on that wagon. RB, SS, and Eager were all off of that wagon. I've already stated boon/darkshadown town, so I'm ISOing the remainder players in the game.

rb

- rb spends a good deal of time Day 1 casting suspicion on TB for not bringing up his homesite meta with Blackvoid, which for some reason means that TB didn't have a reason to believe the miller claim? He also finds it suspicious for some reason that TB didn't question why other people believed the claim - when there is absolutely no reason to

not

believe the claim Day 1. You're supposed to treat it like a named townie claim and judge them based on their content... plus, Miller claims are supposed to be vigged regardless. Eddie failed when he didn't shoot him, honestly. This "case" feels weak at best, especially for page 13.
- RB indicates several times that Transcend wasn't a lynch target, even going so far as to strongly townread him when all Transcend had done was claim an alleged confirmable investigative role. Why did you believe his role instead of doubting it? Why not question everyone that doubted this role and ask them from a town perspective why they would do so? It reads as a potential WhiteKnight knowing the flip.

Also: for any town players who choose to believe the miller claim right now, if you're willing to let the miller claim live into LyLo, pls replace out so I don't have to lose IQ points correcting you

Nothing AI about this quote, I just have to point out its irony. *cough*Eddie*cough
- RB spends a lot of Day 1 on the Setup Spec, including what appears to be pretty blatant rolefishing in 357 by saying that the real watcher is "probably" Transcend, which would of course force him to elaborate in his next post.
- Posts 386, 387, and 391 look like an overreaction and an attempt to discredit any case that remotely pops up by implying that the player is obviously a VI (such as in Post 396).
- Post 439 is interesting, because it highlights the fact that rb has seemingly intentionally avoided giving his insight on the miller claim.
- Post 716 self meta lol

Even though TF's an insufferable moron, I'm annoyed he's dead because after Transcend's flip I didn't think scum would be THAT arrogant about having found the scumteam if they knew they were actually going to be wrong. So I was hoping he'd be alive as a strong townread.

Considering you've been an arrogant ass 90% of this game, this is rich.
- In Post 955, rb implies that I've had low activity in a game that was 30 pages long when I replaced in. This comment makes no sense.
- Post 991 appears as an attempt to once again discredit any potential case on him before it starts ("my wagon's not gonna build, and he needs to find actual scum").

I wanna lynch arona tbh

This post comes out of absolutely nowhere. The only other time he had referenced arona was when he appeared to be testing the waters with Eddie before trying to dictate the D2 lynch. He hasn't given any of his own reads D2, just asking other people what theirs are instead.
- RB votes arona in Post 1093 but doesn't give any reasoning for it until later.
- Post 1151 is actually a pretty damning case against eager, but rb continues to leave his vote on arona, why? Arona was clearly an easier lynch target than Eager at the time, plus this looks like someone trying to cast suspicion on a partner (bus attempt) without actually having to follow through with it.
- Post 1532 rubs me the wrong way, because it's like he's trying to discredit a backup watcher claim when it had already been outed and verified that Eager was actually a watcher.
- RB then opens the day in Post 1715 by attempting to "bait" something, yet he unvotes 3 minutes later. How does this make

any

sense as town?
-

Anyway, out of the claims, who are the fakest?

Backup watcher ayyy lmao

I'm actually going to quote this, because apparently arrogance is the only way to get through to you.

EAGER IS ACTUALLY A WATCHER. HE VERIFIED MY N1 NIGHT ACTION BY NEIGHBORIZING BOON BEFORE EITHER OF US CLAIMED.

- Post 1726 would only be made by scum, because town would never do this... [sarcasm]

certainly

not a town player that's as high caliber as rb.[/sarcasm]

HOLY FUCK RB YOU POST A LOT.

eagerSnake

- Eager's intro to the game always made absolutely no sense to me. Did he really replace in just to cast what seems to be an RVS vote on page 9?

If you're reading my ISO I'm putting this here to remind you not ever ever ever lynch rb before d4

It's D3 and you definitely haven't townread rb at all this game - is this still valid for you?
- This is still going back to setup spec which has been 95% of this game, but watcher does NOT CC miller and implying that it does is shitty.

Because I don't see miller with watcher and backup watcher

This is even more of a bullshit post because he knew at the time that there isn't a watcher and a backup in this setup.
- Post 414 he tries to "pick" a lynch on 2 lurkers, one of whom already flipped town.
- Eager then spends a shit ton of time Day 1 continuing to say that Backup Watcher directly counterclaims miller, when

HE WASN'T ACTUALLY A BACKUP

.
- Posts 1132, 1134, and 1145 seem to be really shitty attempts to whiteknight defend a player, and they don't even make sense.
- Post 1320 is where Eager hardclaims that he's actually a watcher, but he never actually addresses why he spent all of Day 1 pressuring the miller claim because backup watcher apparently directly counterclaims miller because he knows watcher in any form doesn't cc miller.
- In Post 1409, Eager votes me without reasoning or justification in the middle of my back and forth with hap.
- The frustration in Posts 1448, 1449, and 1470 don't come off as genuine. They come off as scum who intentionally avoided the mislynch just to be able to scream "failtown" later.
- Fuck it I'm not reading the rest of this ISO

....okay, so I have a confession to make. I literally just wanted to post this so that you could all see I wasn't

actually

lying when I said I had a wall of text incoming. And had I needed to, I was prepared to provide ISO Cases for TB and SS as needed.

But I'm scum soooooooooo

VOTE: Eager

[horrordude0215]

This game was tough. It relied on some seriously risky fucking gambits, and we got reallllllyyyyyyy lucky with some things.

[horrordude0215]

In answer to the statement in the dead chat, yes, I am very new. But even that doesn't explain how the hell I missed that I was being conned...

I think when you first start out you instinctively want to townread anyone that clears/confirms you.

[horrordude0215]

I'm gonna hop off for the night and rejoin the conversation tomorrow, but before I go, I just need to send a huge shoutout to BlackVoid for what was probably one of the best modded games I've seen. Seriously, the fact that you managed to get so many pagetop votecounts in a game that was

this

fast paced is ridiculous. All of your hammer locks were virtually instantaneous too.

[horrordude0215]

And Gg scum go wifomfuck yourself

Love youuuuu Eager

Yeah, this game wasn't easy by any stretch. There were several times when I thought I was dead in the water, specifically after TB pegged me as the scum neighborizer. But honestly, I was able to ride the coattails of my team here... the miller/cop claims were already decided before I even replaced into the game and they executed the gambits perfectly. Boon even got people believing that scum had a fucking ascetic/rb combo

@Literally everyone: Power lynch and/or vig

any

claimed miller before lylo from here on out

.

I think if Eddie had shot SS either night, we would have been steamrolled by town.

[horrordude0215]

GG scum, especially Boon. Very impressive for mafia to jump into that town v town shitfight like that.

I was worried I was going to 1 v 1 you, but your peace treaty offer with me Day 2 was when I was able to breathe a sigh of relief. Seeing you vigged night 2 was a huge blessing for the scumteam.

[horrordude0215]

Eager's intro to the game always made absolutely no sense to me. Did he really replace in just to cast what seems to be an RVS vote on page 9?

I realize this probably got lost in the hammer vote, but could you clarify this for me?

[horrordude0215]

At the risk of sounding too cocky, simply helped fuck this game up from the start. Scum were leading the quicklynches each day. Scum were the ones that added 4-5 extra power roles to the game thanks if to two fakeclaims. A lot of the bad townplay was initiated because of scum strategy.

Yeah, there were some terrible decisions made, but don't take the credit away from scum because they helped get the town to make those decisions.