[Game Over] Newbie 1784 - Escape Room

For Newbie Games, which have a set format and experienced moderators. Archived during the 2023 queue overhaul.
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Post Post #625 (ISO) » Thu Apr 06, 2017 3:32 am

Post by WhyMafia »

In post 611, Chronicle wrote:
In post 584, WhyMafia wrote:@Chronicle what post number did you give reasoning
what the fuck I just brought it up in , but my brief Noodle read came way back in

what

the

fuck
In post 610, Srceenplay wrote:
In post 606, WhyMafia wrote:
In post 604, nancy wrote:
In post 601, WhyMafia wrote:This places me in a conomdrum.
What conundrum are you referring to?


@src talk to me about 595 please. Why do you not care about being on a wagon with WM? Why are you wagoning Chronicle? You appear to be scumreading both WM and Chronicle, yet abandon the larger WM wagon to join WM in forming a new Chronicle wagon. Why? What are your reads?

VOTE: srceenplay
Agreed on that's gross
I'm actually incredulous that he's being that obvious

Can you explain your chronicle read?
I have Cronicle as a null town. When the point about him not do to much came up it made me think why is he a null-town. If anything he should just be null. I thought maybe he is just trying to sneak by. So, let's see what happens.

As for voting the same as WM. Why not? I scum read him ya, but I don't know for sure. I was founding to give the benifit of the doubt and try to look someplace as not as obvious. Then he post like this and solidify the read again. Maybe he's like a Momo??
What's a momo
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Post Post #626 (ISO) » Thu Apr 06, 2017 3:34 am

Post by WhyMafia »

In post 611, Chronicle wrote:
In post 584, WhyMafia wrote:@Chronicle what post number did you give reasoning
what the fuck I just brought it up in , but my brief Noodle read came way back in

what

the

fuck
Fair enough

You haven't changed your mind at all ever since that original post?
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Post Post #627 (ISO) » Thu Apr 06, 2017 3:35 am

Post by WhyMafia »

In post 611, Chronicle wrote:
In post 584, WhyMafia wrote:@Chronicle what post number did you give reasoning
what the fuck I just brought it up in , but my brief Noodle read came way back in

what

the

fuck
In post 615, Chronicle wrote:
In post 598, WhyMafia wrote:
In post 596, StealthyNoodle wrote:Well ignore this part, I see now that you already explained yourself a couple of times on that matter.
oh
I was blind?
Can you give me post numbers?
yes, you are blind.

and also scum.
Repeating something over and over doesn't make it true fyi
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Post Post #628 (ISO) » Thu Apr 06, 2017 3:40 am

Post by Chronicle »

In post 626, WhyMafia wrote:Fair enough

You haven't changed your mind at all ever since that original post?
Correct
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Post Post #629 (ISO) » Thu Apr 06, 2017 3:41 am

Post by Chronicle »

In post 627, WhyMafia wrote:Repeating something over and over doesn't make it true fyi
Like how you repeated multiple times that I never explained my Noodle read? Anything else you want to lie about?
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Post Post #630 (ISO) » Thu Apr 06, 2017 4:39 am

Post by nancy »

Spoiler: Uh, ramble..
Btw, my name doesn't get capitalized. Lowercase "n" every time. I don't know, one of my quirks? I've been correcting people on that since pretty much right from the start, when I joined MS a little over 3 months ago (it seems like so much longer). I didn't have any forum mafia experience before that but I'd played on EM for a few weeks and really took a liking to the game, except the atmosphere there just didn't connect with me and I wanted something a little more competitive. Found MS. I seemed to take naturally to the game, though, I don't know what that is, and I learned a lot very fast. That was thanks in large part to the supporting cast that I had (and still have) backing me up along the way. Pine has been the centerpiece of my time here, and I call him Senpine for a reason. But to be completely honest most of my learning happened outside of class time, so to speak, while reading through old games of various MS users who I felt had the most to teach me. So I had to take most of what I know for myself, which is really how I've operated all through life, so nothing new to me. (Ever heard the phrase "no free handouts"?) I think that's why I place such emphasis on teaching in newbies, though. And it's also why great IC's like Pine are so important. So many IC's don't take up that responsibility the way he does (granted, his activity this game so far hasn't made that a reality, but when he's his active self what you get is something that you'll struggle to find elsewhere).

Like, I had really poor fundamentals in my game because there was very little that I'd been actively taught by anyone except Pine and JaeReed (another good IC). You do get pieces of feedback here and there from other players (if you haven't yet, go read the dead thread of the newbie that Pine linked to), and those are golden, but for the most part you don't get much of anything and you have to feel your own way and grapple in the dark with your development as a player of mafia. One of the biggest flaws of my towngame was that I lacked confidence. Even when I felt that something was right, all it ever took was for someone to tell me I was wrong, or for people to not back up me and validate me, and I would assume that I had missed the mark and would abandon it. My current idea about why I lacked confidence is partly the way that I'd been burned by tunnels and conf!bias in the past (read Pine's caveat to my comment wrt not tunneling, it's important: not tunneling is a simplistic approach to the matter, what you need most is to recognize when you're in a bad tunnel and learn how to pull yourself out) and partly due to just believing I wasn't any good and thereby wasn't likely to hit in the mark in the first place. I don't think the latter was true, fwiw. While I was never much more than a decent player with potential to be good, I wasn't bad. But I did lack confidence, and that really undermined my game in a kind of "fatal flaw" sort of way. So I think if there's anything I can hopefully instill in the newbies here, it's confidence. Never be
over-confidence
, to the point that you are no longer checking yourself, but believe in yourself and don't let self-doubt cave at your ability to close.

Another major flaw in my towngame was laziness, and this is probably one of the most common flaws you'll find. Instead of really reasoning out all my reads and going through every scenario, taking myself step by step through thought processes and taking everything I could into consideration, I would just skip half the steps and jump to conclusions and not really bother to consider half of what I'd missed along the way. That was just a direct path to bad reads and sloppy play. Conf!bias really reared its head for me a lot of the time because of this. I would latch on to one or two details and take them for a ride and it would be a while, often too late, before I realized what had happened. This happened enough times that it eroded my confidence, and it could have been avoided just by being more circumspect by how I went about my business. The issue with lapsing into lazy reasoning is that it becomes increasingly hard to course correct and get back into being thorough and demanding of yourself the further you fall away from that. If you're lucky, one wrong flip (a scumread flipping Town) can jolt you out of that and wake you up, but even then it may only do so partially and it's up to you to take initiative and reset yourself properly, and even if you
do
it may very well still be too late in the game to fix what you broke. In the best of worlds, you and your fellow Townies are all reevaluating yourselves and each other in a critical way to keep all of you from lapsing into the kind of lazy mentality that loses most games for Town. Unfortunately, in most cases, Town simply doesn't rise to this challenge and ends up eating itself alive, resulting in a Town loss far more than a scum win.

Probably caring about not only the outcome but also the process is what underpins all of this though. I think there are a lot of players, particularly those from sites like EM, who don't have any great drive to win their games, and have even less drive to follow the process and really delve into gameplay. They're happy coasting or doing the bare minimum to get by and if they end up winning the game that's great, if they end up losing then fine, move on to a new game. I think there's a difference between wanting to win and wanting to win while doing your best, and having both at the same time is absolutely essential. You need the drive to win at your best. I was going to write, "and put yourself on the line to do so", but then I realize that's what caused me to give up playing, so I wouldn't advise doing that. Don't put yourself on the line. But
do
try the fuck out of your games. I actually never particularly minded losing games, to be entirely honest, but I absolutely minded the fuck out of not giving my best, and I think it's the latter that really drove me to want to win more than the actual desire to win. Sometimes that drive is totally absent. Sometimes it comes and goes over the course of a game. Sometimes other players drive you into apathy. When it happened to me I always felt like shit afterwards and wondered why I had even been playing. I think that's a healthy sense of responsibility to have. Better if you can avoid it altogether, though.

I don't really know why I wrote all of this but apparently I got really carried away so I guess I should probably spoiler the lot of it and expect that no one could possibly bother to read it. I guess I'm feeling sentimental about my time on MS and about the people who I've had the good fortune of meeting since I came here. There are a lot of people here with huge measures of generosity and for whatever reason the ones I've encountered have all shown me the kindness of extending that generosity my way. Okay yeah I clearly need to just stop typing at this point because I am rambling in the worst way, sorry.
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Post Post #631 (ISO) » Thu Apr 06, 2017 4:58 am

Post by nancy »

In post 623, Chronicle wrote:That doesn't help me with understanding why you scumread him in the first place, or why you no longer scumread him
As stated previously in my ISO, I scumread him because his pushes were more attacks than attempts to hunt or gamesolve. I no longer scumread him because he at least appears to be attempting to engage with the table now, even if his recent sideline-y content is pretty terrible.

In post 624, WhyMafia wrote:The one where I ask to be lynched. It's meant to show I am perfectly fine with being lynched (something scum wouldn't be on d1). I realized that tos is not equivalent to forum mafia :p
Yeah, refer to my comments already made in response to that. It's basically just WIFOM and not indicative at all of a Town mindset. Town should absolutely not be okay with being lynched Day 1 or ever. Getting lynched is against your wincon regardless of alignment with the exception of a few rare circumstances that aren't worth getting into here.
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Post Post #632 (ISO) » Thu Apr 06, 2017 5:19 am

Post by StealthyNoodle »

In post 630, nancy wrote:expect that no one could possibly bother to read it..
I did. Twas a fine read.
In post 630, nancy wrote:Another major flaw in my towngame was laziness, and this is probably one of the most common flaws you'll find.
This one is tough, and I struggle with it myself. I feel like I should be able to deliver a good read, but it really takes a lot of time. Concidering every post from both town- and scum-angle. Weigh one's reaction up to another's. And there's a big possibility no one's gonna care, or just see your dedicated investigation as a bad read. I feel like the easiest way to overcome this, is to read and get involved often. Stacking up a day of two of posts feels like saving work for the weekend. And your reads will probably end up being more sloppy.
In post 630, nancy wrote:Pine has been the centerpiece of my time here, and I call him Senpine for a reason.
He seems like a great IC, so it sucks that he's most likely gonna be replaced. It also takes away a lot of consistent read-material.
I'm about to post a big read on him soon though, so I hope your friendship won't cloud your judgement too much.

Anyways. Long read, but good. I do believe you have a genuine philosophy about teaching. It's just difficult to be certain that you're not using it as a cover-up(considering that's the essence of the game we're playing).
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Post Post #633 (ISO) » Thu Apr 06, 2017 5:19 am

Post by StealthyNoodle »

UNVOTE: nancy
VOTE: pine
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Post Post #634 (ISO) » Thu Apr 06, 2017 6:30 am

Post by Srceenplay »

nancy I read it. Don't really know what's the relevance to this game.
Think is was worth an unvote?
"A man can not be too careful on the choices of his enemies." Oscar Wilde
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Post Post #635 (ISO) » Thu Apr 06, 2017 6:39 am

Post by StealthyNoodle »

I'd say I'm close to
certain
that WhyMafia is not scum.
I've been taking notes on him from every page, and I just can't see it.

He's been way too active, genuine, seemingly honest, butthurt and quarreling. He's been taking pretty wild risks, and he's been admitting mistakes and regrets. Regarding Chronicle, it seems like stubbornness/tunneling.
I admit there's been some shady situations(like the doc-prot. question and the "lynch-me"-part), but he's been open about discussing them and have admitted that he sees, in hindsight, that they make him suspicious. The whole trial-error-play is way too risky for scum.

If he was scum putting up this play, I'd be impressed.

Ugh, I'll do the big scumPine post later. This whole investigation-biz takes forever.
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Post Post #636 (ISO) » Thu Apr 06, 2017 6:47 am

Post by StealthyNoodle »

In post 634, Srceenplay wrote:nancy I read it. Don't really know what's the relevance to this game.
Think is was worth an unvote?
Not in itself, no. And I still don't see her as town yet. Still, my core-argument isn't really that strong anymore. And I've changed my mind about Pine. To me, he's suspicious in many ways.
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Post Post #637 (ISO) » Thu Apr 06, 2017 10:54 am

Post by WhyMafia »

In post 629, Chronicle wrote:
In post 627, WhyMafia wrote:Repeating something over and over doesn't make it true fyi
Like how you repeated multiple times that I never explained my Noodle read? Anything else you want to lie about?
False. I stated multiple times I might be missing something. You showed your posts, and I acknowledged it. You seem to be upset over very little
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Post Post #638 (ISO) » Thu Apr 06, 2017 10:55 am

Post by WhyMafia »

In post 635, StealthyNoodle wrote:I'd say I'm close to
certain
that WhyMafia is not scum.
I've been taking notes on him from every page, and I just can't see it.

He's been way too active, genuine, seemingly honest, butthurt and quarreling. He's been taking pretty wild risks, and he's been admitting mistakes and regrets. Regarding Chronicle, it seems like stubbornness/tunneling.
I admit there's been some shady situations(like the doc-prot. question and the "lynch-me"-part), but he's been open about discussing them and have admitted that he sees, in hindsight, that they make him suspicious. The whole trial-error-play is way too risky for scum.

If he was scum putting up this play, I'd be impressed.

Ugh, I'll do the big scumPine post later. This whole investigation-biz takes forever.
MY MASTER PLAN WORKED MWAHAHAHAHAHAH
shoot scum slip


In all seriousness, looking back, yeah I was tunneling Chronicle. Still find him a tad susp though
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Post Post #639 (ISO) » Thu Apr 06, 2017 11:23 am

Post by TesXX »

In post 592, CogMachine wrote:I'm actually more interested in seeing what TesXX has to say. Explcit pressure is not very useful. Try to convince me to lynch chronicle instead and I might listen.

Tes, who do you think is mafia?

Come on, don't be shy. I'm very curious.
I will say who I think is scum if you claim
tracker
or
not tracker.
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Post Post #640 (ISO) » Thu Apr 06, 2017 11:29 am

Post by nancy »

In post 634, Srceenplay wrote:nancy I read it. Don't really know what's the relevance to this game.
Think is was worth an unvote?
Sorry, it wasn't very relevant at all.... I don't really know why Noodle was scumreading me in the first place, and I have even less of an idea why he'd be pushing an empty slot over me now. Suffice it to say that the behavior is pretty strange and I also don't get why he's be defending WM so consistently throughout the game. Anyway, could you answer my questions about your vote please?

Still waiting on those reads you promised, Noodle. Would be great if you could throw them in when you case Pine.
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Post Post #641 (ISO) » Thu Apr 06, 2017 11:59 am

Post by WhyMafia »

Considering we have just over 2 and a half days left, we probably should decide on a lynch. I say we kill screen!
VOTE: Srceene
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Post Post #642 (ISO) » Thu Apr 06, 2017 12:06 pm

Post by nancy »

In post 639, TesXX wrote:
In post 592, CogMachine wrote:I'm actually more interested in seeing what TesXX has to say. Explcit pressure is not very useful. Try to convince me to lynch chronicle instead and I might listen.

Tes, who do you think is mafia?

Come on, don't be shy. I'm very curious.
I will say who I think is scum if you claim
tracker
or
not tracker.
Tes this is honestly just a cop-out. You can't wait for this to give reads and get involved.
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Post Post #643 (ISO) » Thu Apr 06, 2017 12:07 pm

Post by nancy »

In post 641, WhyMafia wrote:Considering we have just over 2 and a half days left, we probably should decide on a lynch. I say we kill screen!
VOTE: Srceene
Why?
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Post Post #644 (ISO) » Thu Apr 06, 2017 12:34 pm

Post by StealthyNoodle »

In post 632, StealthyNoodle wrote:And there's a big possibility no one's gonna care, or just see your dedicated investigation as a bad read.
In post 640, nancy wrote:I don't really know why Noodle was scumreading me in the first place, and I have even less of an idea why he'd be pushing an empty slot over me now. Suffice it to say that the behavior is pretty strange and I also don't get why he's be defending WM so consistently throughout the game.
Well, this pretty much sums up what I hate about putting effort into this; you're simply ignoring everything relevant I've posted so far. Pretending you don't know why I was scumreading you. Why do you even bother?
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Post Post #645 (ISO) » Thu Apr 06, 2017 12:37 pm

Post by CogMachine »

In post 639, TesXX wrote:
In post 592, CogMachine wrote:I'm actually more interested in seeing what TesXX has to say. Explcit pressure is not very useful. Try to convince me to lynch chronicle instead and I might listen.

Tes, who do you think is mafia?

Come on, don't be shy. I'm very curious.
I will say who I think is scum if you claim
tracker
or
not tracker.
Your obsession with power roles is interesting to me.

I'd call your refusal to engage based on my lack claim quite dodgy! Also your obsession with power roles.

But fine,
tracker
.

I'm not sure this "plan" was a good idea, but everyone else went along with it

If there's a mafia ballsy enough to claim cop, now's your chance.

I've had a really rough day, will post more content tomorrow.
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Post Post #646 (ISO) » Thu Apr 06, 2017 12:39 pm

Post by Chronicle »

And now we play follow the tracker.....
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Post Post #647 (ISO) » Thu Apr 06, 2017 12:40 pm

Post by Chronicle »

Anyway mobile posting, will be on a computer tonight.
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Post Post #648 (ISO) » Thu Apr 06, 2017 12:46 pm

Post by StealthyNoodle »

In post 430, StealthyNoodle wrote:
Shredding Pine's Wallpost - Part 1
In post 387, Pine wrote:
Page 1

[...]leads me to think nancy is Town. This isn't based on standard tactics or anything, it's largely based on my relationship with nancy. I have a sense that she tends to play a bit fast and loose when she's Town, especially in the early game. A first-post scumclaim-in-jest isn't something I see her doing as scum.[...]
So you've been witnessing her play as scum then? If so, could you share with us a game in which you were? If not, how can you be sure that she'd play much differently as scum?
(Is this unethical or too out-of-game to ask for btw?)

Pine wrote: -WhyMafia jumping on Chronicle for being vote 2 on Stealthy instead of LoopDan for being the third vote strikes me as odd and disingenuous, and if this weren't a Newbie game I'd be all over that. We'll see how it plays out.
-WhyMafia then jumping onto nancy looks like scum falling into her trap. Definitely putting a pin in that.
It's page one. They look like random votes to me. He could just as well have joined the bandwagon and vote me.
Pine wrote:
Page 3


I never got any response on this. Not sure if people just ignored it, but here starts my case on Pine.
For a Town IC, I don't like Pine's Wallpost at all. His arguments are simple and pretty pointless, a bunch of them are just rephrasings of other players' posts.
-Pine enters, nancy interaction is pretty obvTown.
I still don't get why you feel that anything obvious, based on this short interaction.
She should be perfectly fine tricking you, taking advantage of you knowing each other. The fact that you wish to ignore that fact is just weird.
Pine wrote:
Page 4

-Stealthy's entrance looks like newScum. Praises TesXX and LoopDan for empty reasons
They're already more reasonable than yours, considering we're page 4.
Pine wrote: votes nancy as the most dynamic player present. Does not support BP-claiming strategy, agrees with nancy, but does it anyway? Then flips around and says she's not supporting a pro-Town agenda? Naaaahhh.
I explained why several times. Did you simply ignore those posts?
Pine wrote: Also as noted in Post 90, exaggerating charges against nancy.
I responded to you on that one as well:
In post 94, StealthyNoodle wrote:
In post 90, Pine wrote: Trumping up the charges against nancy and gross exaggeration are pretty classic scum tactics.
I have nothing to hide; my vote is solely based on supposed probability. If some other good theories come around, I'll surely listen.

What are your reasons for defending her on the other hand? Joking around with friends is something anyone could do; scum or not.
(though you might've gone offline at that point, as you never replied to my question)
Pine wrote: -WhyMafia continues to make moves that come off as opportunistic, specifically moving against LoopDan for a page 1 RVS vote. Hesitating a little on my scumread though, not sure even newScum would do this.
Contradicting yourself? You just accused WhyMafia's page 1 RVS vote for being suspicious, yourself. And this just seems like a basic push to me:
In post 83, WhyMafia wrote:Yea he's viable to look into.
Loopdan, explain your vote
VOTE: Loopdan


Gah, this takes so much time. I'll continue after I come home tonight(or in the morning). I'm glad Pine's back, despite our disagreement.
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Post Post #649 (ISO) » Thu Apr 06, 2017 12:47 pm

Post by Srceenplay »

In post 640, nancy wrote:
In post 634, Srceenplay wrote:nancy I read it. Don't really know what's the relevance to this game.
Think is was worth an unvote?
Sorry, it wasn't very relevant at all.... I don't really know why Noodle was scumreading me in the first place, and I have even less of an idea why he'd be pushing an empty slot over me now. Suffice it to say that the behavior is pretty strange and I also don't get why he's be defending WM so consistently throughout the game. Anyway, could you answer my questions about your vote please?

Still waiting on those reads you promised, Noodle. Would be great if you could throw them in when you case Pine.
In post 610, Srceenplay wrote:
In post 606, WhyMafia wrote:
In post 604, nancy wrote:
In post 601, WhyMafia wrote:This places me in a conomdrum.
What conundrum are you referring to?


@src talk to me about 595 please. Why do you not care about being on a wagon with WM? Why are you wagoning Chronicle? You appear to be scumreading both WM and Chronicle, yet abandon the larger WM wagon to join WM in forming a new Chronicle wagon. Why? What are your reads?

VOTE: srceenplay
Agreed on that's gross
I'm actually incredulous that he's being that obvious

Can you explain your chronicle read?
I have Cronicle as a null town. When the point about him not do to much came up it made me think why is he a null-town. If anything he should just be null. I thought maybe he is just trying to sneak by. So, let's see what happens.

As for voting the same as WM. Why not? I scum read him ya, but I don't know for sure. I was founding to give the benifit of the doubt and try to look someplace as not as obvious. Then he post like this and solidify the read again. Maybe he's like a Momo??
Do you need something else?
"A man can not be too careful on the choices of his enemies." Oscar Wilde

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