DoY I: British Monarchy Mafia (Mini 1896) - Game Over :O

Infinity 324 · Tue Apr 11, 2017 8:06 am

In post 1422, shaddowez wrote:So, here's the reason I didn't want to comment after fitz' first catch up post until he was done....while the posts have a decent amount of content and supporting links in them, it feels like he's supporting pre-existing reads, rather than forming them based on the points he's making. I didn't want to point that out before he was done, but rather see if his following posts were any better.

Scum have to choose who they're going to read as town or scum based on what content they can pull from in the thread, whereas town has to use what's presented to make their reads. If you look at his reads, there's very little progression, rather an initial read on each slot and then more evidence to support that particular read. The only place this doesn't match up is nancy/farside, but the read changes at the replacement entrance, which is a convenient place to do so.

VOTE: havingfitz

I believe that's
L-1

This is a good point and another example of shaddow thinking deeper than I remember him doing as scum.

Infinity 324 · Tue Apr 11, 2017 8:29 am

In post 1429, Commander Shepard wrote:
In post 1408, Infinity 324 wrote:
In post 1401, The Wood Cutters wrote:Infinity, who are your top three scumreads again?
Wraith, prism, and fitz. Though I'm starting to doubt prism.

I should really catch up in order
Do you think Wraith is bussing here?

I find it horribly unlikely Wraith as scum would vote scum in a situation where most pressure on him was scum generated. That pressure has disappeared since the last vote count.

Infinity your vote is bad.

I don't do pre-flip associatives. If fitz flips scum I'll reconsider.

Infinity 324 · Tue Apr 11, 2017 8:32 am

You haven't demonstrated anything. I'm happy with my reasons for scumreading fitz and I'm happy with my and nacho's reasons for townreading AC (even though I don't agree with all of them).

Infinity 324 · Tue Apr 11, 2017 10:51 am

We have 1 day and 10 minutes. But still, fitz should claim for sure and someone should probably hammer him soon.

Infinity 324 · Tue Apr 11, 2017 11:49 am

Even if it is a mislynch, it doesn't mean shaddow is scum...

Infinity 324 · Tue Apr 11, 2017 9:54 pm

In post 1362, Infinity 324 wrote:I would like you to go more into your read on me but I think it'll end up being an endless wall war. So I'll just ask: what do you think scum!me is trying to accomplish with this push?

@prism

Infinity 324 · Tue Apr 11, 2017 10:35 pm

In post 1465, The Wood Cutters wrote:
In post 1419, Infinity 324 wrote:Nacho, I think shaddow is showing a lot more depth than he did in OotS. Maybe I'm valuing the meta for one game too much, but what do you think
I agree with it; I think the recent point on Fitz in particular is pretty strong.

~Nacho~

I swear, if you're just buddying me...

But yeah shaddow is actually a relatively confident townread after he made that point.

Infinity 324 · Tue Apr 11, 2017 10:38 pm

In post 1470, The Wood Cutters wrote:I think Infinity's point that Fitz's read is mostly based on POE and gut and here's this big asspull of a case looks more survivalistic than genuine.

Yeah, I haven't seen town be able to fabricate a case where they didn't have one before. I certainly can't do that for my PoE/gut reads.

Infinity 324 · Wed Apr 12, 2017 3:40 am

In post 1509, havingfitz wrote:
In post 1441, Infinity 324 wrote:Even if it is a mislynch, it doesn't mean shaddow is scum...
I never said he was. I don't think he is.

You said thinking deep doesn't mean shit. I said it means he's town.

Infinity 324 · Wed Apr 12, 2017 3:41 am

In post 1510, The Wood Cutters wrote:
Vote: Cloudkicker

Postie, Fitz, come vote CK with me.
As it stands right now AC is a stronger townread than Fitz is, but I think Fitz's posts when he is very very very close to death look town and CloudKicker is not looking so hot at the moment. I would vote Wraith, but 1) a surprising number of people are townreading him, and 2) voting him is basically a policy lynch for me at this point.

No. We have 7 and a half hours left, and fitz has done nothing town.

Infinity 324 · Wed Apr 12, 2017 3:45 am

I'll vote CK to avoid a no lynch but his entrance was quite towny to me. I believe I've seen CK's scumgame on his alt and it wasn't like this. I think you're just getting last-minute paranoia on fitz.

PEdit: no they're really not

Infinity 324 · Wed Apr 12, 2017 3:46 am

In post 1529, havingfitz wrote:
In post 1521, Infinity 324 wrote:
In post 1509, havingfitz wrote:
In post 1441, Infinity 324 wrote:Even if it is a mislynch, it doesn't mean shaddow is scum...
I never said he was. I don't think he is.
You said thinking deep doesn't mean shit. I said it means he's town.
My point being thinking deep is worthless if it gets you a mislynch. No alignment insinuated with that opinion.

This is a dumb conversation but the reason why I brought that point up in the first place was to say that shaddow is town.

I also thought the point he made was a good point and may have indicated you were scum, but I was not saying that thinking deeply meant shaddow was voting scum.

Infinity 324 · Wed Apr 12, 2017 3:47 am

In post 1531, The Wood Cutters wrote:I had last minute paranoia on fitz six hours ago, worked through it. I heavily doubt he's scum based on his recent posts.

You'll have to walk me through it.

Infinity 324 · Wed Apr 12, 2017 4:21 am

In post 1535, havingfitz wrote:
In post 1523, Infinity 324 wrote:fitz has done nothing town.
Well...I've revived a dead lurker slot. I may have correctly determined your alignment. I may have found scum.

All good stuff.

What have I done that's scummy?

You've done nothing that couldn't easily be done by scum. This is worrying because I can't say the same for your friends and enemies play. I've said this before.

Infinity 324 · Wed Apr 12, 2017 4:24 am

In post 1534, The Wood Cutters wrote:viewtopic.php?t=69244&f=53&st=0&sk=t&sd ... ct%5B%5D=0

This is his response to getting lynched on Day 1 the last time I was town against him scum, by the way. Pay special attention to the end, it looks nothing like here.

I read the last few posts, I really don't see how it's different

Infinity 324 · Wed Apr 12, 2017 4:26 am

In post 1538, The Wood Cutters wrote:I do think as scum in this position he would claim a stronger power role, I certainly would. One-shot commuter isn't a role that looks exceptionally town, and the thread temperature at the time (Farside said she'd vote him, CK had him as a scumread and the score otherwise was 6-5) said he was getting lynched unless he did something big, and claiming a weak power role like that is a really shitty thing to do to your scumteam since it's not going to draw a counterclaim. I know that Fitz is aware of this, and I doubt he would have made that claim to appeal to me specifically and based on the last time he was scum against me I don't think he thinks he could just talk his way out of it.

This is the only real point in his favor, but I think the play arguments are stronger.

Infinity 324 · Wed Apr 12, 2017 4:29 am

In post 1540, The Wood Cutters wrote:I think that this post looks good, it dispels a lot of the concerns on him I brought up earlier. I think a lot of scum players struggle with maintaining this kind of energy in the face of almost certain death, and I think that Fitz is one of those people - as scum he might be able to fake the case but I don't think the "fuck the townies voting me" aspect of it would be as pronounced.

I think this is a weak point. I think scum could certainly make a last-ditch effort like this, and he could channel his frustration at being about to be lynched.

Infinity 324 · Wed Apr 12, 2017 4:36 am

In post 1561, The Wood Cutters wrote:
In post 1557, Infinity 324 wrote:This is the only real point in his favor, but I think the play arguments are stronger.
What play arguments specifically?

The one about how he could pull a case out of his ass

Shadow's one about how he looked like he was trying to justify scumreads instead of developing them organically

The one about how I found him obvious town in a game I saw him in

The one about how CK's entrance looked towny

Infinity 324 · Wed Apr 12, 2017 4:41 am

In post 1563, The Wood Cutters wrote:It's a player specific point. I can keep the energy up just fine when being lynched, you can just fine, Fitz can't.

I'll trust you on this point, but you can always have anomalies.

Infinity 324 · Wed Apr 12, 2017 4:42 am

In post 1566, The Wood Cutters wrote:How did CK's entrance look townie?

I'm way too tired, sorry.

My vote is staying on fitz unless it needs to move to avoid a no lynch.

Infinity 324 · Wed Apr 12, 2017 4:44 am

In post 1541, The Wood Cutters wrote:
In post 1485, havingfitz wrote:
In post 1480, The Wood Cutters wrote:If you are town, I hope you change your approach in the future once you're spoiled.
I love when people (scum or town) pushing mislynches shift all the blame on the person being lynched. It's not your fault town!TWC your read on my is shit. It's my fault for being so darn scummy. Shame on me!
This in particular is one of those "fuck you" posts that seemed incredibly genuine to me.

This is so easy to fake, especially when it's a common thought to have as town. Which it is for me and I could definitely imagine it being like that for others.

Infinity 324 · Wed Apr 12, 2017 4:47 am

In post 1542, The Wood Cutters wrote:
In post 1478, havingfitz wrote:@TWC...I haven't dialogued with you because I think you're scum. Iirc you're voting me already. If there is a question your vote is hinging on..ask it. I'm not going to pour through your ISO looking for questions or respond in entirety to the wallpost you made wrt me yesterday.
This interaction I also don't think happens if he's scum here; a couple people in this game have called this slot one of the scarier ones in the game, Fitz has seen me push lynches like nobody's business before, no way in hell his response to me as scum is "I'm not digging through your posts, you're scum, I'm not wasting time convincing you. If you want to talk, you need to make things concise and approach me." - this is not how scum talk when they are seconds away from death.

Bleh maybe

What if he didn't have the energy like you said at first but then found it somehow. (Relating to RL circumstances or something)

Infinity 324 · Wed Apr 12, 2017 4:55 am

In post 1559, The Wood Cutters wrote:
In post 1556, Infinity 324 wrote:I read the last few posts, I really don't see how it's different
This is a joke right

It's not a joke

Unless you mean that there's just not that much content there. Which is a fair point

Infinity 324 · Wed Apr 12, 2017 5:03 am

In post 1573, The Wood Cutters wrote:
In post 1571, Infinity 324 wrote:
In post 1566, The Wood Cutters wrote:How did CK's entrance look townie?
I'm way too tired, sorry.

My vote is staying on fitz unless it needs to move to avoid a no lynch.
Without us on the fitz wagon it simply doesn't have the numbers and I can promise you that our vote will not be on Fitz today. Simple logistics

So, if you don't switch, then it will in fact be a no lynch.

/Gin

You wouldn't vote fitz to avoid a no lynch?

...

...ok

Infinity 324 · Wed Apr 12, 2017 5:07 am

In post 1476, havingfitz wrote:I'm town town. Catching up in 50+ page game I replaced into to help mod and for player list only to be forced to claim and face D1 lyching for shit reasoning is very aggravating.

I'm town.
Town needs to exit my wagon and look elsewhere.

TWC, I found this vaguely similar to the post he made in the game you linked.

Infinity 324 · Wed Apr 12, 2017 5:10 am

In post 1575, The Wood Cutters wrote:Oh, you're the one pushing the wagon on me?
Too bad, I think you're scum.

Different circumstances affect scum's reads. And, eventually he was much more cooperative with you.

Just because it was the correct play to cooperate with you and appeal to you in the first place doesn't mean frustrated scum is going to do it.

Infinity 324 · Wed Apr 12, 2017 5:10 am

In post 1611, The Wood Cutters wrote:The "it sucks to be lynched for such shit reasons" also looks pretty different on its own.
Do you at least see my point that there's a pretty significant difference?

I probably didn't look into it deeply enough.

Infinity 324 · Wed Apr 12, 2017 5:12 am

In post 1572, The Wood Cutters wrote:Break out scum games exist but generally someone who is having a breakout scumgame sure as shit don't deserve to be lynched Day 1 since it's far more likely that they're just town.

But this is not a breakout scum game except for that one point. The vast majority of fitz's posts I can easily ensivion from frustrated scum.

Infinity 324 · Wed Apr 12, 2017 5:20 am

VOTE: CK

This will probably flip town, but I'm trusting TWC because I'm too tired to think very clearly. This was one of my weaker townreads, and I actually find TWC's arguments for town!fitz relatively compelling.

Infinity 324 · Wed Apr 12, 2017 5:25 am

Infinity 324 · Wed Apr 12, 2017 5:29 am

I'll also hopefully be here to vote wherever is needed to avoid a no lynch.

Infinity 324 · Wed Apr 12, 2017 10:05 am

All the wagons are town I think

Scum is in {dreal, prism, wraith} and maybe empking or someone

Infinity 324 · Wed Apr 12, 2017 10:18 am

VOTE: fitz

I guess

Infinity 324 · Wed Apr 12, 2017 10:18 am

TWC, this isn't gonna work. Sorry.

We're not no lynching.

Infinity 324 · Wed Apr 12, 2017 10:24 am

In post 1741, Commander Shepard wrote:
In post 1730, Infinity 324 wrote:All the wagons are town I think

Scum is in {dreal, prism, wraith} and maybe empking or someone
No. Please fix this. If they were scum they would make sure of a lynch. Those are likely all Town.

Scum want a no lynch...

Infinity 324 · Wed Apr 12, 2017 10:32 am

In post 1748, Commander Shepard wrote:
In post 1743, Infinity 324 wrote:
In post 1741, Commander Shepard wrote:
In post 1730, Infinity 324 wrote:All the wagons are town I think

Scum is in {dreal, prism, wraith} and maybe empking or someone
No. Please fix this. If they were scum they would make sure of a lynch. Those are likely all Town.
Scum want a no lynch...
Scum would want a lynch here based on numbers.

They would also want the commuter gone.

This wagon on Fitz is scum driven.

Commuter is barely a power role.

There are 13 players here. Town loses a mislynch if we no lynch and we lose a lot of info. If scum wanted a lynch then we would just no lynch and not give it to them. Scum lynch d1 is very rare anyway...

Infinity 324 · Wed Apr 12, 2017 10:34 am

In post 1758, Prism wrote:for some reason thinks that advocating against TvT wagons is a scumtell

What?

Infinity 324 · Wed Apr 12, 2017 10:37 am

Ok then who is scum prism? I have pretty solid town reasoning for AC, TWC, farside and shaddow

Infinity 324 · Wed Apr 12, 2017 10:40 am

In post 1761, Commander Shepard wrote:No.

Just no.

Town loses a mislynch if we lynch wrong or no lynch. Hence why you should always vote scum or no lynch.

D1 scum lynches are rare but you never lynch someone with a strong belief they are Town ever.

No lynch is better because scum have to deal with evens. Which means a no lynch which means they have to plot kills and lynched more carefully with that in mind.

No. We need a flip to give us info and move forward. If fitz is town he'd probably just be lynched later on in the game and we'd have one less mislynch to work with. Scum don't need to plan shit more carefully, all it gives them is more lynch targets and less mislynches required to win.

Infinity 324 · Wed Apr 12, 2017 10:42 am

In post 1766, Prism wrote:Forgot T&B but top 4 for me are TWC, T&B, AC, and shaddow. I've mostly only had time to read during walks or meetings, latter of which is rude to type up a frenzy during but I'm doing it anyway now.

I forgot T&B too, lol

If I had the option to get a 1-shot doc if they were town and lose the game if they were scum, I'd take the free doc shot. There is no world in which they are scum.

Infinity 324 · Wed Apr 12, 2017 10:49 am

{T&B}
{TWC, AC}
{shaddow, farside}
{CK, Shepard, empking, dreal}

{prism, wraith}

I guess this is where I'm at pending a flip. It's a pretty gross list but I'd be surprised if anyone in the top 3 tiers is scum

Infinity 324 · Wed Apr 12, 2017 10:51 am

In post 1469, Infinity 324 wrote:
In post 1362, Infinity 324 wrote:I would like you to go more into your read on me but I think it'll end up being an endless wall war. So I'll just ask: what do you think scum!me is trying to accomplish with this push?
@prism

Also if anyone wants to engage me on stuff we can do it d2. But please don't do so if you only want to argue and not listen.

Infinity 324 · Wed Apr 12, 2017 10:53 am

...wraith doesn't make sense as scum cause there would've been a stronger CW on someone towards the middle of the day

FUCK

Infinity 324 · Wed Apr 12, 2017 10:55 am

I will work with you shepard. But T&B is the one slot that I can't change. Sorry.

Everyone else I can reconsider, but it may take some convincing.

Infinity 324 · Wed Apr 12, 2017 10:56 am

In post 1796, Prism wrote:Anyone who thinks Shephard is scum though I'm not sure if anyone thinks that at this point should slap themselves

Why

Infinity 324 · Wed Apr 12, 2017 11:00 am

In post 1800, Almost Chara wrote:pedit: anyone who knows Sheperd's main (which i'm comfortable referencing as they've outed it themselves) would be townreading them, i think.

I could never read Shepard's main. But I agree they do look town here.

Infinity 324 · Wed Apr 12, 2017 11:01 am

In post 1802, CloudKicker wrote:
In post 1786, Infinity 324 wrote:{T&B}
{TWC, AC}
{shaddow, farside}
{CK, Shepard, empking, dreal}

{prism, wraith}

I guess this is where I'm at pending a flip. It's a pretty gross list but I'd be surprised if anyone in the top 3 tiers is scum
why do you even scumread me? please tell me how i scum alignement told in any way

I don't. I don't really have any scumreads

Infinity 324 · Wed Apr 12, 2017 11:03 am

In post 1807, Commander Shepard wrote:Then you likely don't have any Town ones either as no scumreads = bad reads outside RVS.

Yeah it's bad. Yes I also have townreads.

Infinity 324 · Wed Apr 12, 2017 11:04 am

Scum don't usually scumtell very much d1 anyway.

Chara: meh. Was separating townreads and non-townreads.

Infinity 324 · Wed Apr 12, 2017 11:06 am

CK is someone we should really look into I think (cause PoE). TWC may have been on the right track with that.

Infinity 324 · Wed Apr 12, 2017 11:13 am

In post 1812, CloudKicker wrote:
In post 1811, Infinity 324 wrote:CK is someone we should really look into I think (cause PoE). TWC may have been on the right track with that.
twc didnt poe me down, he jsut made a bullshit arguement about how much i lurk and that i was vanity voting when i was literraly vlad for days

I'm PoEing you down.

If you want to talk about my townreads we can talk d2.

Infinity 324 · Fri Apr 14, 2017 11:39 am

Ok it's late for me now but we have:

T&B lock town
Chara town because meta and no strong CW
Wraith town because no strong CW

Farside town because tunnel looks genuine and backing out is a town move
Shepard town because...they look town
Shaddow town because meta

Empking maybe town because nacho said so
Dreal maybe town because his thoughts look genuine but I've seen him give very genuine thoughts as an SK. Never seen his scumgame though

Prism likely scum
CK likely scum

VOTE: CK

Infinity 324 · Fri Apr 14, 2017 11:55 am

It wasn't a strong CW until a few hours before the deadline. Most scum don't like to take risks like that.

Infinity 324 · Fri Apr 14, 2017 12:06 pm

Mastina was barely even playing.

The CW to fitz was CK. Every other wagon had ample time to develop a CW but there wasn't one. You can't call a wagon that happened in the last few hours the counter to a wagon that lasted all day phase. That's not how it works.

Infinity 324 · Fri Apr 14, 2017 12:40 pm

Why do you think there was no strong CW for wraith for most of d1?

Infinity 324 · Fri Apr 14, 2017 12:46 pm

In post 1836, Tea and Biscuits wrote:Because scum can only do so much and don't have the power to magically create wagons without town's support.

-- Postie

How about on AC or on shaddow/fitz earlier on?

You think town were the ones sitting on vanity wagons and shit?

I don't

Infinity 324 · Fri Apr 14, 2017 12:49 pm

In post 1265, Aristophanes wrote:
VC 1.15
HavingFitz
(3): The Wood Cutters 806, Almost Chara 819, Wraith 905

Wraith
(3): Tea and Biscuits 317, Infinity 324 688, Shaddowez 1083

Almost Chara
(3): Drealmerz 238, Empking 1036, Commander Shepard 1209

Tea and Biscuits
(1): Prism 1091

Shaddowez
(1): CloudKicker 1263

Not Voting
(2): Farside22 979, HavingFitz 1097

With 13 players alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch.

Day one ends Wednesday, April 12th at 6pm EST, or in (expired on 2017-04-12 18:00:00)

Mod Notes:

A two day extension has been granted per request and added to the counter. If this still seems insufficient, let me know. A lot can happen in 2 days though!

Also, Happy Scumday Infinity!!!

Mmm

Infinity 324 · Fri Apr 14, 2017 12:51 pm

In post 1839, Tea and Biscuits wrote:Why not?

-- Postie

Because town like to consolidate when the game is stalling to pressure people.

Also if scum was on either AC or shaddow/fitz they could've just switched to the other.

I mean you can't "just" do those types of things as scum but they could probably find a way

PEdit: I'm saying all the wagons were probably on town so scum was sitting on the sidelines not on any of them

Infinity 324 · Fri Apr 14, 2017 12:59 pm

Scum are weird sometimes

Infinity 324 · Fri Apr 14, 2017 1:00 pm

I know what you're saying, it's random shit for scum to say but sometimes they do that to get townread.

Infinity 324 · Fri Apr 14, 2017 1:19 pm

Town aren't more likely to do it than scum though really

Infinity 324 · Fri Apr 14, 2017 1:19 pm

Or at least, it's not significant enough to get a good read.

Infinity 324 · Fri Apr 14, 2017 1:24 pm

I know that style of scum play, I have done it before and it's not hard to fake. "That's weird for scum to do" is not a good argument when every scum has a different way of approaching the game and looking townread. The only really towny stuff is stuff that is hard to fake and that is not hard to fake.

Is this how town!CK plays?

Infinity 324 · Fri Apr 14, 2017 1:25 pm

In post 1852, Empking wrote:
In post 1828, Infinity 324 wrote:Mastina was barely even playing.

The CW to fitz was CK. Every other wagon had ample time to develop a CW but there wasn't one. You can't call a wagon that happened in the last few hours the counter to a wagon that lasted all day phase. That's not how it works.
You're contradicting yourself here.

Where

Infinity 324 · Fri Apr 14, 2017 11:53 pm

In post 1870, Empking wrote:
In post 1854, Infinity 324 wrote:
In post 1852, Empking wrote:
In post 1828, Infinity 324 wrote:Mastina was barely even playing.

The CW to fitz was CK. Every other wagon had ample time to develop a CW but there wasn't one. You can't call a wagon that happened in the last few hours the counter to a wagon that lasted all day phase. That's not how it works.
You're contradicting yourself here.
Where
CK happened in the last few hours. Having lasted 'all day phase'. CK cannot be the counter wagon to Having. Yet that is your first sentence.

(I'm not trying to be pedantic, I genuinely don't understand what you're saying.)

Well fitz was a town wagon. So obviously scum wouldn't have motivation to find a CW for that. It's possible that scum piled on fitz at the end to save CK (so fitz would be the CW to CK) but my main point is that fitz wasn't a counter to any other wagon.

Infinity 324 · Fri Apr 14, 2017 11:54 pm

In post 1867, Commander Shepard wrote:
In post 1791, Aristophanes wrote:
VC 1.LYNCH!!!
HavingFitz
(7): Almost Chara 819, Wraith 905, Tea and Biscuits 1385, Shaddowez 1422, CloudKicker 1725, Infinity 324 1734, Prism 1751

Almost Chara
(3): Drealmerz 238, Empking 1036, Commander Shepard 1209

CloudKicker
(2): The Wood Cutters 1510, HavingFitz 1527

The Wood Cutters
(1): Farside22 1363

Not Voting
(0): Nobody!!!

With 13 players alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch.

Day one ends Wednesday, April 12th at 6pm EST, or in (expired on 2017-04-12 18:00:00)

Mod Notes:

Doing this on mobile (just finished work). Man you guys get busy at deadline!
There appears to be a lynch!
So TWC, Farside22, and HavingFitz were all off the main wagon. That's three town. The game started with 13 players. That means 10 left. 2-3-4 scum probably 3 so that means more than likely most of the scum if not all were on the havingfitz wagon.

So I want to lynch someone one the fitz wagon.

In post 1868, Commander Shepard wrote:So Drealmerz and Empking and myself are the only ones off the wagon alive.

I know I'm town and so if any of Drealmerz are Empking are scum it's likely only one of them.

That means at least two of AC, Wraith, T&B, Shaddowez, Cloudkicker, Infinity or Prism are likely scum.

Why does it make dreal or empking more likely to be town though?

Infinity 324 · Fri Apr 14, 2017 11:56 pm

That modkilled was pretty gross for us btw. It's actually the day before mylo if we mislynch today.

Does that mean we massclaim or?

Infinity 324 · Sat Apr 15, 2017 12:17 am

That doesn't count cause it isn't a counterwagon that was close to lynch until deadline. If almost or wraith was scum, scum would've been scared of people consolidating almost or wraith and tried to run up one on the other wagons harder. Instead the wagons stalled, making it look to me like scum were happy with the gamestate.

Infinity 324 · Sat Apr 15, 2017 12:19 am

Sorry if I'm not explaining it well but I swear I didn't invent this concept

Infinity 324 · Sat Apr 15, 2017 1:47 am

Farside replaced nancy

I like that scumpool but I still doubt wraith is scum.

What's the PS about?

Infinity 324 · Sat Apr 15, 2017 3:23 am

So you're saying either both almost and wraith are scum? That's unlikely just by statistics. If not, they could've just pushed whichever of those 2 was town.

Infinity 324 · Sat Apr 15, 2017 4:55 am

In post 1883, Empking wrote:
In post 1882, Infinity 324 wrote:So you're saying either both almost and wraith are scum? That's unlikely just by statistics. If not, they could've just pushed whichever of those 2 was town.
Pushing Wraith wouldn't have gotten them there any faster than pushing Having. Almost is scum.

If scum were pushing fitz and not wraith, that means there were more town votes on wraith than on fitz.

Why wouldn't scum just switch to wraith then? They could've used wraith's disengagement as an excuse.

Same thing the other way around.

If scum were pushing both, they could've consolidated and pushed a CW better that way.

There's no way that scum were unable to push a CW of any kind as long as town is voting town.

Infinity 324 · Sat Apr 15, 2017 5:57 am

In post 1887, Empking wrote:They did push a counter wagon. Having got lynched. Yes they could have goes with the two townies voting Wraith rather than the two townies voting Having, but why should they? Having got lynched. They succeeded.

They pushed a counter wagon. Almost is still alive.

It's very risky to just let a scum wagon stay there for a while without traction on any other wagon. Especially with all the replacements whose votes are hard to predict, almost easily could've gotten lynched.

Infinity 324 · Sat Apr 15, 2017 5:59 am

In post 1891, Commander Shepard wrote:VCA. Numbers alive. If two scum were on Almost Chara with me that doesn't make sense. Then all of Town conspired to lynch havingfitz and scum wouldn't vote Fitz except likely one. Which is ludicrous given three people off the wagon are dead.

Fitz was a deadline lynch. Scum aren't more likely to be on or off the wagon.

Plus, why wouldn't just one of them be scum?

Infinity 324 · Sat Apr 15, 2017 6:01 am

In post 1896, Tea and Biscuits wrote:Infinity why am I not townreading you anymore

-- Postie

No idea.

Infinity 324 · Sat Apr 15, 2017 6:02 am

In post 1900, Commander Shepard wrote:No one should advocate for mass claim D2 especially Infinity.

I'm not advocating anything. I'm suggesting a massclaim. Normally the day before mylo/lylo people massclaim. Why is this situation different?

Infinity 324 · Sat Apr 15, 2017 6:10 am

I know what you're talking about, I just don't know how that has anything to do with mass claiming.

Infinity 324 · Sat Apr 15, 2017 6:22 am

If you didn't have a specific reason in mind, I can see why you say that. I thought you had a specific reason in mind.

But I doubt you'd catch scum with a 2-word post anyway.

Infinity 324 · Sat Apr 15, 2017 6:22 am

I think you need to look at the big picture more.

Infinity 324 · Sat Apr 15, 2017 6:28 am

I thought you wanted me to guess yor reason for scumreading me. That's why I answered your post at all.

Wrt the second part, it's just that developing a read based on such a small thing usually isn't reliable. Even though that's not your whole read.

Infinity 324 · Sat Apr 15, 2017 6:42 am

In post 1910, Infinity 324 wrote:I know what you're talking about, I just don't know how that has anything to do with mass claiming.

@shepard

Infinity 324 · Sat Apr 15, 2017 6:46 am

viewtopic.php?t=70277&f=83&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go
viewtopic.php?t=68703&f=52&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go
viewtopic.php?t=68714&f=53&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

Here postie.

Infinity 324 · Sat Apr 15, 2017 7:09 am

I get what you're saying. I don't know what to tell you.

What are your thoughts on prism again?

Infinity 324 · Sat Apr 15, 2017 7:27 am

VOTE: prism

Sure

Infinity 324 · Sat Apr 15, 2017 7:33 am

The point about staying on the sidelines and not pushing a town mislynch is especially strong if all the major wagon are town

Infinity 324 · Sat Apr 15, 2017 7:52 am

In post 1930, Tea and Biscuits wrote:Towards the end of the day Wraith wasn't really a major wagon anymore so I don't think that makes him at all likely town if that's what you're suggesting. There's no reason for scum to get particularly panicked about a wagon on a partner in the middle of the day when there are already two other wagons of the same size on town, especially since AC was looking like a probable lynch.

-- Postie

Maybe? I still think scum were likely to push a counterwagon harder than they did for most of the day phase. And wraith was about the same size as the other wagons up until I switched off.

Infinity 324 · Sat Apr 15, 2017 8:21 am

I'm not really sure tbh

Infinity 324 · Sat Apr 15, 2017 10:09 am

Shepard is town.

Infinity 324 · Sat Apr 15, 2017 10:11 am

Why would you think that?

Infinity 324 · Sat Apr 15, 2017 10:36 am

In post 1947, Wraith wrote:TBH I'd townread Infinity for much of his activity but his tunnel of me and his inexplicable desire for a D2 massclaim (why would you massclaim at this point BEFORE MyLo?) discourage me from doing so.

I think you're town now.

I also still don't understand why we wouldn't massclaim-- I thought it was standard to do so the day before mylo/lylo. Am I wrong?

Infinity 324 · Sat Apr 15, 2017 10:38 am

In post 1950, Wraith wrote:Alright I was trying to play coy but at this point it's probably useless since I'm giving off "I AM A POWER ROLE" vibes with today's posts like an ambulance speeding down Main Street

I'm George VI, Bodyguard.

I protected Wood Cutters last night.

Combined with the above fact and that I've been extremely scummy to a deliberate extent the entire game, I concluded I was Roleblocked N1, and by town rather than scum.

So here we are now. My cards are on the table.

I know I just said we should massclaim but that was unnecessary...

I think it goes without saying that we shouldn't lynch wraith today.

Infinity 324 · Sat Apr 15, 2017 11:01 am

In post 1961, Wraith wrote:drealmerz nevertheless jumps to the conclusion that I stated both town and scum have roleblocking capability

Where did he say this?

Infinity 324 · Sat Apr 15, 2017 11:15 am

Dreal might be scum but that was probably it a scumslip

Infinity 324 · Sat Apr 15, 2017 11:18 am

In post 1986, Infinity 324 wrote:Dreal might be scum but that was probably not a scumslip

Infinity 324 · Sat Apr 15, 2017 11:21 am

In post 1788, Infinity 324 wrote:
In post 1469, Infinity 324 wrote:
In post 1362, Infinity 324 wrote:I would like you to go more into your read on me but I think it'll end up being an endless wall war. So I'll just ask: what do you think scum!me is trying to accomplish with this push?
@prism

Prism you never answered this btw

Infinity 324 · Sat Apr 15, 2017 11:24 am

In post 1990, Wraith wrote:
In post 1988, Infinity 324 wrote:
In post 1986, Infinity 324 wrote:Dreal might be scum but that was probably not a scumslip
You can believe that it wasn't a scumslip but it still stands that he so distorted my post that it could only have been willful misrepresentation.

...or he just made a dumb mistake.

Dreal I didn't say you're probably scum I said you're maybe scum, and only because of PoE

Everyone is so defensive jeez

Infinity 324 · Sat Apr 15, 2017 11:30 am

Dreal, if you want me to provide you links of all the times I've used PoE as town later on in the game

or if you want me to give you an essay on why I think PoE is one of the best scumhunting tactics

I'd be happy to

Infinity 324 · Sat Apr 15, 2017 11:34 am

Earlier in the game scum scumtell even less.

Infinity 324 · Sat Apr 15, 2017 11:36 am

How do you catch scum if they don't scumtell?

Infinity 324 · Sat Apr 15, 2017 11:38 am

Oh and if you want me to go through all my townreads in this game one by one and explain them (which I already did briefly)

I'd be happy to do that too

Voting me for using PoE is pretty dumb tbh

Infinity 324 · Sat Apr 15, 2017 11:45 am

I'm using PoE because no one is truly scummy to me. And no one is usually scummy to me on d1. It's not just scumtells that I can't find, PoE is literally the main way I scumhunt in most games.

I don't see how I'm waffling or not addressing your point.

Infinity 324 · Sat Apr 15, 2017 11:47 am

I mean there are some things that indicate someone is scum to me. For example, I'm voting prism because postie brought up a good (small) point, tone (which is small for me), because he wasn't on a wagon when I think all the wagons were on town, because TWC was killed and they suspected him, as well as PoE. But I havve no incriminating evidence and that's normal.

Infinity 324 · Sat Apr 15, 2017 11:50 am

In post 1820, Infinity 324 wrote:Ok it's late for me now but we have:

T&B lock town
Chara town because meta and no strong CW
Wraith town because no strong CW

Farside town because tunnel looks genuine and backing out is a town move
Shepard town because...they look town
Shaddow town because meta

Empking maybe town because nacho said so
Dreal maybe town because his thoughts look genuine but I've seen him give very genuine thoughts as an SK. Never seen his scumgame though

Prism likely scum
CK likely scum

VOTE: CK

@dreal

If you want me to go through any of these, ask.

I use PoE early more than late tbh, I honestly thought you were saying it's too late to use PoE because I think of things that way.

Infinity 324 · Sat Apr 15, 2017 11:53 am

In post 1971, Wraith wrote:
In post 1963, drealmerz7 wrote:my brain is not fully on

was thinking it was TWC that was the RBer, not farside
If you were under the impression TWC was the RBer, why did you imply I claimed to be RB'd by scum?

TWC flipped town

"Brain fart" doesn't cut it here

Keep making that noose

In post 1972, drealmerz7 wrote:because if TWC was the RB and were killed their RB would not go through

@wraith

Infinity 324 · Sat Apr 15, 2017 11:55 am

In post 2017, Infinity 324 wrote:
In post 1820, Infinity 324 wrote:Ok it's late for me now but we have:

T&B lock town
Chara town because meta and no strong CW
Wraith town because no strong CW

Farside town because tunnel looks genuine and backing out is a town move
Shepard town because...they look town
Shaddow town because meta

Empking maybe town because nacho said so
Dreal maybe town because his thoughts look genuine but I've seen him give very genuine thoughts as an SK. Never seen his scumgame though

Prism likely scum
CK likely scum

VOTE: CK
@dreal

If you want me to go through any of these, ask.

I use PoE early more than late tbh, I honestly thought you were saying it's too late to use PoE because I think of things that way.

@dreal

Infinity 324 · Sat Apr 15, 2017 12:00 pm

Wraith I don't understand what's wrong with that response so you'll have to use words

Infinity 324 · Sat Apr 15, 2017 12:11 pm

Dreal I kinda want you to respond to 2025 at some point

Infinity 324 · Sat Apr 15, 2017 12:17 pm

If dreal thought TWC was roleblocker and didn't assume NAR, I can see why he would say what he said

PEdit: so you're satisfied with that? and still voting me?

Infinity 324 · Sat Apr 15, 2017 12:21 pm

Infinity 324 · Sat Apr 15, 2017 12:29 pm

In post 2050, Wraith wrote:IF DREALMERZ THOUGHT TWC WAS THE ROLEBLOCKER FROM THE START WHY DID HE ACCUSE ME OF INSIDER KNOWLEDGE THAT SCUM ROLEBLOCKED ME?!

USE YOUR FUCKING BRAIN

Because he thought you were saying scum had their own roleblocker

In post 2051, drealmerz7 wrote:why this is a bunch of hogwash - my comments colored

In post 1820, Infinity 324 wrote:Ok it's late for me now but we have:

T&B lock town -
lock town huh? what? when did this happen and how?

Chara town because meta and no strong CW -
META?!?!?! NO STRONG CW?!?!? FITZ WAS THE FUCKING CW

Wraith town because no strong CW -
WHAT KIND OF REASONING IS THIS I CAN'T EVEN FOLLOW IT

Farside town because tunnel looks genuine and backing out is a town move -
BACKING OUT IS NOT NECESSARILY A TOWN MOVE!!! CRACKSMOKERS

Shepard town because...they look town -
I'm sold!!! NOT

Shaddow town because meta -
TF?!??!?!!?

Empking maybe town because nacho said so -
WOW, sold again

Dreal maybe town because his thoughts look genuine but I've seen him give very genuine thoughts as an SK. Never seen his scumgame though -
THANKS BUDDY!

Prism likely scum -
whyyyy??????????????

CK likely scum -
whyyyyyyyy???????????

VOTE: CK

Have you read my posts?

Infinity 324 · Sat Apr 15, 2017 12:35 pm

Dreal, I'm pretty sure the only posts you have read of mine are the ones I made in the last hour. And you're voting me.

Infinity 324 · Sat Apr 15, 2017 12:48 pm

In post 2062, Wraith wrote:I AM SCUM LYING ABOUT MY CLAIM AND BEING ROLEBLOCKED, WHAT DOES NIGHT ACTION RESOLUTION STOPPING A ROLEBLOCK FROM A PLAYER WHO WAS NEVER A ROLEBLOCKER HAVE TO DO WITH ANYTHING?!

Because dreal thought there TWC died before he could use his roleblock, and therefore there had to be a scum roleblocker to block you. He didn't assume NAR was being used.

Dreal, ignore wraith for a second and read at least the ISO of the person you are voting.

Infinity 324 · Sat Apr 15, 2017 12:51 pm

No you clearly haven't because you are asking about reads I've already explained.

Like I literally just explained why I was voting prism and you asked why I scumread prism.

Read.

Infinity 324 · Sat Apr 15, 2017 12:58 pm

In post 2072, drealmerz7 wrote:looks more to me like you are TRing ppl you want on your side, don't have a legit history of developing a SR on, and are your scumbuds, and are SRing those you want lynched

sorry I poorly articulate myself with that 'WHYYYY????" re: prism - it seems like a contrived read through and through set to serve/legitimize the rest of your reads

You don't seem to be trying to sort me

Infinity 324 · Sat Apr 15, 2017 1:02 pm

I explained the process in my ISO.

Infinity 324 · Sat Apr 15, 2017 1:09 pm

Because it's not in one post its all over my ISO and the fact that you missed all of it shows to me that you didn't read or at least not carefully enough.

Tomorrow morning I'll quote where I explained stuff though. But I bet you're just going to say it's all bullshit so yeah

Infinity 324 · Sat Apr 15, 2017 1:15 pm

That's vague as fuck.

I have a bunch of townreads. I have been developing them over the course of the game. Most of the explanations are in my ISO. If there's a specific one you want me to go in depth on, ask. If there's a specific one you don't like the reasoning for, ask.

Infinity 324 · Sat Apr 15, 2017 1:20 pm

Anyway, I think taking a break from this would do us all some good.

I'm still not really sure the specific issues you have with me dreal. Why are my reads maneuvering and faked and not genuine?

PEdit: because apparently you have issues with the reads. Start talking about specific issues, the vagueness is really annoying.

I don't see why developing townreads over the game is scummy.

Infinity 324 · Sat Apr 15, 2017 1:21 pm

I want you to ask about my reads because I want evidence you're trying to sort me and because I want to be able to work this out if you're town.

Infinity 324 · Sat Apr 15, 2017 1:22 pm

Or if not trying, made an effort in the past to do so.

Infinity 324 · Sat Apr 15, 2017 11:40 pm

Dreal, I still don't know specifically why you scumread me

Infinity 324 · Sun Apr 16, 2017 12:20 am

You're still not giving any specifics whatsoever.

Infinity 324 · Sun Apr 16, 2017 12:23 am

I want you to go through specific reads or things I've said or done and explain why they're not a town though process. Sure, that's a possibility from your POV. But I have no idea why you think that's a more likely possibility than me being town.

Infinity 324 · Sun Apr 16, 2017 12:26 am

You pick one and explain why it fits that narrative.

Infinity 324 · Sun Apr 16, 2017 12:29 am

Again, i could be scum doing that. But I still have no idea why you think that's more likely than the reads being genuine.

What about my read on T&B shows it's not coming from town in your view?

Infinity 324 · Sun Apr 16, 2017 12:29 am

I already justified my thought process on all my reads.

Infinity 324 · Sun Apr 16, 2017 12:32 am

Right now I'm inclined to believe you're scum trying to find a place for your vote but you can't find specifics to justify it. Prove me wrong.

Infinity 324 · Sun Apr 16, 2017 12:33 am

In post 2110, drealmerz7 wrote:
In post 2109, Infinity 324 wrote:I already justified my thought process on all my reads.
AND THEY ALL SEEM LIKE CONTRIVED BULLSHIT

FOR LIKE THE FIFTH FUCKING TIME, HOLY FUCKING SHIT PLEASE LEARN TO READ

I know you think they look like bullshit. I want to know why you think that.

Infinity 324 · Sun Apr 16, 2017 12:39 am

I townread T&B because postie is playing to her town meta. She is much more aggressive as town and she constantly doubts and re-evaluates herself, which is something I can relate to. Wrestling with paranoia is something I have not seen scum!postie come close to fake, even though she is good as scum in other ways.

What is your issue with that read?

Infinity 324 · Sun Apr 16, 2017 12:40 am

You never directly refused to give specifics, but if that's what you're doing then that's sad.

Infinity 324 · Sun Apr 16, 2017 12:43 am

It doesn't have to be a case, it just has to be some sort of specific something so I can tell whether you're actually thinking about this instead of finding a place for your vote.

Infinity 324 · Sun Apr 16, 2017 12:51 am

Unfortunately you could just be very stubborn town.

You used more energy refusing to explain than you would have giving a case.

Can you at least promise me to give some specifics on something....sometime?

Infinity 324 · Sun Apr 16, 2017 12:55 am

I'm sorry for pushing you this hard, but you should really get more involved in the game or replace out.

Infinity 324 · Sun Apr 16, 2017 1:06 am

No but if you can't go into specifics on anything then you probably should replace out. If you can give some good content then it's ok if you're not in top form.

Infinity 324 · Sun Apr 16, 2017 9:21 am

Why do you think it's SvT?

Infinity 324 · Sun Apr 16, 2017 10:00 am

I really want to but I also want to stay on prism...

We need more people voting scum

Infinity 324 · Mon Apr 17, 2017 6:48 am

In post 2143, Prism wrote:The push to have drealm replace out

Where did I do this?

Infinity 324 · Mon Apr 17, 2017 7:42 am

In post 2127, Infinity 324 wrote:No but if you can't go into specifics
on anything
then you probably should replace out. If you can give some good content then it's ok if you're not in top form.

Key phrase.

Infinity 324 · Mon Apr 17, 2017 7:43 am

You could possibly intepret that post as suggesting to dreal that he should replace out, even though that's not how I meant it.

You could not possibly intepret that post as "pushing" for him to replace out.

Infinity 324 · Mon Apr 17, 2017 8:34 am

Wraith could you possibly join us on prism or CK?

Infinity 324 · Mon Apr 17, 2017 10:22 am

I hope you're scum

Infinity 324 · Mon Apr 17, 2017 12:38 pm

In post 2115, Infinity 324 wrote:I townread T&B because postie is playing to her town meta. She is much more aggressive as town and she constantly doubts and re-evaluates herself, which is something I can relate to. Wrestling with paranoia is something I have not seen scum!postie come close to fake, even though she is good as scum in other ways.

This is why I townread T&B, prism, if that helps you at all. (I would be townreading her without meta for similar reasons, but meta makes it stronger).

Infinity 324 · Mon Apr 17, 2017 12:39 pm

In post 2187, Titus wrote:
In post 2184, Almost Chara wrote:I also have it on my notes that the slot's flavour is Queen Victoria,
I am unamused at your attempts to discuss my flavor though. :-p

He's right, pine claimed that.

Infinity 324 · Mon Apr 17, 2017 12:40 pm

In post 2188, drealmerz7 wrote:titus, heads-up

AC claimed VT early game, then retracted it!

AC very likely scum, with infinity and T&B

if infinity is town then maybe commander is scum, but, mehhh, that's waffles right now

Everyone mentioned in this post is 85% town at least

Infinity 324 · Mon Apr 17, 2017 12:47 pm

Titus, for a large part of the day there were 3 wagons of about equal size (wraith, almost, and thinkmomo/having). Lynch didn't happen until very close to deadline (and flipped town). I concluded that all 3 wagons were town. What do you think

Infinity 324 · Mon Apr 17, 2017 12:50 pm

I trust it better than my reads for now though.

Infinity 324 · Mon Apr 17, 2017 12:54 pm

Cause my reads usually suck early on.

Infinity 324 · Mon Apr 17, 2017 12:58 pm

Dreal, the wagon on fitz slot was stalled for most of the day as well. The fact that fitz lynch ended up happened at deadline instead of the others means nothing imo.

PEdit: no titus, your slot was the last wagon pushed by TWC?

Infinity 324 · Mon Apr 17, 2017 1:00 pm

Spoiler: fitz/momo wagon

In post 825, Aristophanes wrote:
VC 1.9
ThinkMomo
(3): nancy 802, The Wood Cutters 806, Almost Chara 819

Almost Chara
(2): ThinkMomo 216, Drealmerz 238

Tea and Biscuits
(2): Empking 168, Commander Shepard 495

Wraith
(2): Tea and Biscuits 317, Infinity 324 688

Drealmerz7
(1): RadiantCowbells 627

Pine
(1): Wraith 693

Not Voting
(2): Pine, Prism 346

With 13 players alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch.

Day one ends Monday, April 10th at 6pm EST, or in (expired on 2017-04-10 18:00:00)

Mod Notes:
You guys post so much that I look inactive!
Well done

In post 869, Aristophanes wrote:
VC 1.10
ThinkMomo
(3): nancy 802, The Wood Cutters 806, Almost Chara 819

Almost Chara
(2): ThinkMomo 216, Drealmerz 238

Tea and Biscuits
(2): Empking 168, Commander Shepard 495

Wraith
(2): Tea and Biscuits 317, Infinity 324 688

Pine
(1): Wraith 693

Commander Shepard
(1): RadiantCowbells 862

Not Voting
(2): Pine, Prism 346

With 13 players alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch.

Day one ends Monday, April 10th at 6pm EST, or in (expired on 2017-04-10 18:00:00)

Mod Notes:
Pine has been prodded for the second time

In post 922, Aristophanes wrote:
VC 1.11
ThinkMomo
(4): The Wood Cutters 806, Almost Chara 819, Wraith 905, nancy 908

Almost Chara
(2): ThinkMomo 216, Drealmerz 238

Tea and Biscuits
(2): Empking 168, Commander Shepard 495

Wraith
(2): Tea and Biscuits 317, Infinity 324 688

Not Voting
(3): Pine, Prism 346, Shaddowez 884

With 13 players alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch.

Day one ends Monday, April 10th at 6pm EST, or in (expired on 2017-04-10 18:00:00)

Mod Notes:
Pine has been prodded for the second time.
Shaddowez replaces RadiantCowbells!

In post 964, Aristophanes wrote:
VC 1.12
ThinkMomo
(4): The Wood Cutters 806, Almost Chara 819, Wraith 905, nancy 908

Almost Chara
(2): ThinkMomo 216, Drealmerz 238

Tea and Biscuits
(2): Empking 168, Commander Shepard 495

Wraith
(2): Tea and Biscuits 317, Infinity 324 688

Not Voting
(3): Pine, Prism 346, Shaddowez 884

With 13 players alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch.

Day one ends Monday, April 10th at 6pm EST, or in (expired on 2017-04-10 18:00:00)

Mod Notes:
I've given up on getting pagetops lol
At least there were no vote changes!

In post 1028, Aristophanes wrote:
VC 1.13
ThinkMomo
(3): The Wood Cutters 806, Almost Chara 819, Wraith 905

Almost Chara
(2): ThinkMomo 216, Drealmerz 238

Wraith
(2): Tea and Biscuits 317, Infinity 324 688

Tea and Biscuits
(1): Empking 168

Not Voting
(5): Pine, Prism 346, Shaddowez 884, Commander Shepard 978, nancy 979

With 13 players alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch.

Day one ends Monday, April 10th at 6pm EST, or in (expired on 2017-04-10 18:00:00)

Mod Notes:
ThinkMomo and Drealmerz7 are being prodded.
Searching for a replacement for nancy.

In post 1096, Aristophanes wrote:
VC 1.14
HavingFitz
(3): The Wood Cutters 806, Almost Chara 819, Wraith 905

Almost Chara
(4): HavingFitz 216, Drealmerz 238, Commander Shepard 1062, Empking 1036

Wraith
(3): Tea and Biscuits 317, Infinity 324 688, Shaddowez 1083

Tea and Biscuits
(1): Prism 1091

Not Voting
(2): CloudKicker, Farside22 979

With 13 players alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch.

Day one ends Monday, April 10th at 6pm EST, or in (expired on 2017-04-10 18:00:00)

Mod Notes:
Lots on Replacements! Thanks to everyone who came out to play

In post 1265, Aristophanes wrote:
VC 1.15
HavingFitz
(3): The Wood Cutters 806, Almost Chara 819, Wraith 905

Wraith
(3): Tea and Biscuits 317, Infinity 324 688, Shaddowez 1083

Almost Chara
(3): Drealmerz 238, Empking 1036, Commander Shepard 1209

Tea and Biscuits
(1): Prism 1091

Shaddowez
(1): CloudKicker 1263

Not Voting
(2): Farside22 979, HavingFitz 1097

With 13 players alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch.

Day one ends Wednesday, April 12th at 6pm EST, or in (expired on 2017-04-12 18:00:00)

Mod Notes:

A two day extension has been granted per request and added to the counter. If this still seems insufficient, let me know. A lot can happen in 2 days though!

Also, Happy Scumday Infinity!!!

In post 1304, Aristophanes wrote:
VC 1.16
HavingFitz
(3): The Wood Cutters 806, Almost Chara 819, Wraith 905

Wraith
(3): Tea and Biscuits 317, Infinity 324 688, Shaddowez 1083

Almost Chara
(3): Drealmerz 238, Empking 1036, Commander Shepard 1209

Tea and Biscuits
(1): Prism 1091

Shaddowez
(1): CloudKicker 1263

Not Voting
(2): Farside22 979, HavingFitz 1097

With 13 players alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch.

Day one ends Wednesday, April 12th at 6pm EST, or in (expired on 2017-04-12 18:00:00)

Mod Notes:
No vote changes!

Farside22 is V/LA until Monday

In post 1355, Aristophanes wrote:
VC 1.17
HavingFitz
(4): The Wood Cutters 806, Almost Chara 819, Wraith 905, Infinity 324 1343

Almost Chara
(3): Drealmerz 238, Empking 1036, Commander Shepard 1209

Wraith
(2): Tea and Biscuits 317, Shaddowez 1083

Tea and Biscuits
(1): Prism 1091

Shaddowez
(1): CloudKicker 1263

Not Voting
(2): Farside22 979, HavingFitz 1097

With 13 players alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch.

Day one ends Wednesday, April 12th at 6pm EST, or in (expired on 2017-04-12 18:00:00)

Mod Notes:

Farside22 is V/LA until Monday
Prods will go out in the morning because I feel generous this weekend!

Infinity 324 · Mon Apr 17, 2017 1:04 pm

In post 2217, Titus wrote:
In post 2215, Infinity 324 wrote:Dreal, the wagon on fitz slot was stalled for most of the day as well. The fact that fitz lynch ended up happened at deadline instead of the others means nothing imo.

PEdit: no titus, your slot was the last wagon pushed by TWC?
They made a comment about how Cloud didn't follow through on something, but the last interaction of detail was with Drealmerz. Cloud then subbed out. I know I'm town, so Cloud ran out of time. I'll be looking into that person next but I didn't like how Drealmerz didn't answer what mistake he made.

Dreal wants you to read but I'll sum up.

Basically, wraith claimed BG on TWC and said he thought he was blocked by town. Dreal said wraith claimed he was blocked by scum. Then wraith called that a misrep and/or scumslip and has been tunneling dreal for the past few pages.

PEdit: ok

Infinity 324 · Mon Apr 17, 2017 1:42 pm

In post 2253, drealmerz7 wrote:tell me, how incompetent was I in inspectorscout's procrastination mafia?

All I remember is you tunneling us for a large part of d1

Infinity 324 · Mon Apr 17, 2017 1:44 pm

Almost tried to fish for flavor that was already claimed?

Infinity 324 · Mon Apr 17, 2017 1:47 pm

In post 2264, Titus wrote:
In post 2260, Infinity 324 wrote:Almost tried to fish for flavor that was already claimed?
Infinity, where is the liqour cabinet?

There's a liquor cabinet? No wonder everyone is acting so weird.

Infinity 324 · Mon Apr 17, 2017 1:48 pm

Titus, you are making quite a bit of sense so far. This is a troubling development.

Infinity 324 · Mon Apr 17, 2017 1:48 pm

In post 2263, Commander Shepard wrote:
In post 2260, Infinity 324 wrote:Almost tried to fish for flavor that was already claimed?
In other words it matters to Almost50 what flavor exists.

Why does a VT care to note that?

In order to verify it if, for example, a replacement tried to claim different flavor.

Infinity 324 · Mon Apr 17, 2017 2:01 pm

Titus, what do you think about voting prism? Prism was TWC's main scumread other than your slot.

Infinity 324 · Mon Apr 17, 2017 2:04 pm

Still don't like to bus, do you?

Infinity 324 · Mon Apr 17, 2017 2:05 pm

You're saying nacho+gin were both wrong on their top 2 scumreads titus? And they were nightkilled?

Infinity 324 · Mon Apr 17, 2017 2:07 pm

I want specific reasons for your apparent townread on prism, titus.

Infinity 324 · Mon Apr 17, 2017 2:08 pm

Mastina wasn't really there, gotta be fair.

Infinity 324 · Mon Apr 17, 2017 2:09 pm

In post 2300, Titus wrote:Drealmerz is still alive, so I'm not sure where you get that impression.

They may have suspected dreal a little but their main 2 scumreads were your slot and prism. Ask anyone.

Infinity 324 · Mon Apr 17, 2017 2:12 pm

In post 2303, Titus wrote:
In post 2298, Infinity 324 wrote:I want specific reasons for your apparent townread on prism, titus.
Their town read is fuck you wanting Drealmerz dead. I townread him bitch.

I like that tone. I think they are dead wrong, but I like how they fight for that read.

I'm really not seeing where you get this.

Infinity 324 · Mon Apr 17, 2017 2:17 pm

Titus, the tone in prism's last post is NAI and you should know better. It's not even about anything reads-related.

Infinity 324 · Mon Apr 17, 2017 2:18 pm

In post 2306, Titus wrote:
In post 2304, Infinity 324 wrote:
In post 2300, Titus wrote:Drealmerz is still alive, so I'm not sure where you get that impression.
They may have suspected dreal a little but their main 2 scumreads were your slot and prism. Ask anyone.
My ending ISO skim suggests differently, which is why I confronted Drealmerz but if that's the conclusion you draw I wonder why.

In their last post TWC was questioning dreal, yes.

For a large part of the day they were pushing prism and for most of the end of the day they were pushing CL. Again, ask anyone.

Infinity 324 · Mon Apr 17, 2017 2:19 pm

Can you get some other quotes for the prism tone?

PEdit: meh ok

Infinity 324 · Mon Apr 17, 2017 2:21 pm

No titus, I'm talking about what TWC's reads were. That's pretty objective. They were pushing CK at the end of the day, that's a fact. They were pushing prism for a large part of the day, also a fact.

Infinity 324 · Mon Apr 17, 2017 2:29 pm

Spoiler: CK push

In post 1510, The Wood Cutters wrote:
Vote: Cloudkicker

Postie, Fitz, come vote CK with me.
As it stands right now AC is a stronger townread than Fitz is, but I think Fitz's posts when he is very very very close to death look town and CloudKicker is not looking so hot at the moment. I would vote Wraith, but 1) a surprising number of people are townreading him, and 2) voting him is basically a policy lynch for me at this point.

In post 1513, The Wood Cutters wrote:
In post 1511, farside22 wrote:I'm calling in sick.
No energy for reading.
Ugh
Will you be around to get a lynch at deadline?
If so, please vote CK.

In post 1522, The Wood Cutters wrote:Infinity, talk to me about Fitz's recent posts and the possibility of a CK lynch?

In post 1564, The Wood Cutters wrote:
In post 1558, drealmerz7 wrote:I gave my read on fitz yesterday, I see healthy sorting attempts that don't seem nefarious

I can't say he's a TR (I don't hand out TRs like they're freecandy like the rest of most of you do) , but I have almost no scumpings there and don't like the wagon composition at all

believe me, the claim sucks and commuter 9/10 times is a scumrole, but it's not enough to counter the rest of the nullish read on him
9/10 a scum role?

Look at the wiki, it's labeled as a pro-town role given that the player actually leaves and can't perform actions, ergo kills. Doing the research the history also matches up but that doesn't matter because fake claim blah blah blah, his character circumnavigated the world by ship blah blah traveling equals commuting blah blah it fucking fits. blah blah

ALSO

In post 1101, CloudKicker wrote:With 3 days only and 4 wagon we should really just stop the vanity stuff and really try to at least work on 2 of those wagons
This is cute given:
In post 1452, Aristophanes wrote:
VC 1.17
HavingFitz
(6): The Wood Cutters 806, Almost Chara 819, Wraith 905, Infinity 324 1343, Tea and Biscuits 1385, Shaddowez 1422

Almost Chara
(5): Drealmerz 238, Empking 1036, Commander Shepard 1209, HavingFitz 1373, Prism 1451

Shaddowez
(1): CloudKicker 1263

The Wood Cutters
(1): Farside22 1363

Not Voting
(0): Nobody!!!

With 13 players alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch.

Day one ends Wednesday, April 12th at 6pm EST, or in (expired on 2017-04-12 18:00:00)

Mod Notes:

Prodding Almost Chara
However, all prod timers will reset in the new dayphase.
You have this little tid bit. Cloud Starts out by saying we have to stop vanity voting and dicking around but when we have two wagons, with one at L-1, he votes on Shaddow which is a clear as day vanity wagon with no potential

In post 1567, The Wood Cutters wrote:What about CK's entrance was towny?

Like, details.

/Gin

In post 1581, The Wood Cutters wrote:Well here's the thing and I can also tell you that with 7 hours left, CK knows that you wont vote him if you dont give him an answer so he'll just lurk the day out.

If you do however vote CK, that will force him to come out of the wood works and lay shit on the table.

All hours before deadline.

What do you have to say about that titus

Infinity 324 · Mon Apr 17, 2017 2:38 pm

In post 2330, drealmerz7 wrote:I'll cry less if you flip VT, actually, but there will still be tears

I'll be weeping 'WHYYYY DO TOWNIES LIEEE, IT HURRTS IT HURTS' *weepweep*

Just because you wish townies wouldn't lie doesn't make it true.

Infinity 324 · Mon Apr 17, 2017 8:59 pm

Postie, why does dreal look town to you?

Infinity 324 · Mon Apr 17, 2017 9:12 pm

He really couldn't give a vague possible scum motivation for someone's posting as scum?

Infinity 324 · Tue Apr 18, 2017 8:20 pm

VOTE: dreal

This game is going nowhere

Infinity 324 · Tue Apr 18, 2017 9:23 pm

Sorry

Infinity 324 · Wed Apr 19, 2017 12:03 am

Dreal I less want you to defend and more want to see what you have to bring to the table.

Infinity 324 · Wed Apr 19, 2017 12:10 am

I am voting dreal now.

Infinity 324 · Wed Apr 19, 2017 12:42 am

What's your read on prism and does meta influence it at all?

It would be very helpful if you got quotes to back up what you're saying, especially with respect to T&B.

Infinity 324 · Wed Apr 19, 2017 12:53 am

I still think prism and titus, then I'd reconsider my empking, shaddow, and almost townreads (in that order).

Infinity 324 · Wed Apr 19, 2017 1:11 am

See 2014, also I'm trusting nacho that prism could fake what he's given so far as scum.

Infinity 324 · Wed Apr 19, 2017 2:12 am

I'm glad you went into specifics here.

The small tone things I don't know what to tell you. I think they'd be the same for me as town and scum.

I think town is more likely to consolidate on a compromise lynch of some kind than stubbornly vote their top scumread in a stalled game. For example, I switched to fitz instead of wraith to try to get things moving, and iirc wraith wasn't my top scumread either. Not to say town can't be stubborn, but it's less likely.

I repeat the fact that the reasons are small because I'm making the point that that's how I form my reads, especially earlier on.

Yes, I scumread them even though there's no incriminating evidence. I wouldn't be shocked if prism flipped town, but I don't think it's very likely given those points and given how many townreads I have.

Infinity 324 · Wed Apr 19, 2017 2:48 am

I thought I addressed everything...

Infinity 324 · Wed Apr 19, 2017 3:22 am

Can you try rephrasing some things

Infinity 324 · Wed Apr 19, 2017 4:02 am

VOTE: titus

Infinity 324 · Wed Apr 19, 2017 4:03 am

If dreal turns out not to be a mason, we lynch him. Simple as that.

Infinity 324 · Wed Apr 19, 2017 4:27 am

In post 2411, Wraith wrote:I think a Mason fakeclaim by dreal was intended to open a lot of possibilities for his buddies:

1. dreal claims Mason, vouched for by his scumbuddy. I don't think this was going to happen since it means that fake Mason buddy is dead meat as soon as dreal flips scum

2. dreal claims Mason, no vouch by a scumbuddy and the scumbuddy joins the wagon. This is risky because it allows the town to wagon PoE his potential partner that he was hoping would vouch for him via PoE.

3. dreal claims Mason, no vouch by a scumbuddy because the scumbuddy was already bussing him. This is pretty cunning because the town might be seduced into determining the scumbuddy via wagon PoE as per #2, which can potentially give a false clear on players who were on the dreal wagon before the claim.

PREDIT:

Yes, it makes sense in flavor terms. But did people not already warn me that scum could easily have prepared flavor fakeclaims?

It also means fucking nothing until the partner actually vouches for him, and that you're taking it at face value without someone backing it up is fucking suspicious.

In #2 and #3, can't we just lynch dreal when we're in mylo/lylo and there's no other mason claim?

Infinity 324 · Wed Apr 19, 2017 4:34 am

In post 2419, Almost Chara wrote:
In post 2411, Wraith wrote: Yes, it makes sense in flavor terms. But did people not already warn me that scum could easily have prepared flavor fakeclaims?
In games like this one, scum are PROVIDED with fake claims from the mod. The thing is I've never seen a mod that provided a Masonry for a fake claim. Such gambits only occur in non-flavoured closed setup games. They're way too hard to pull in a themed game. Like, what if the supposed Mason flavour did exist in the game and came out to say: "NO. I'm NOT Masons with drealz."?? There's ONLY ONE FLAVOUR that could be Masons with drealz now, so how does he know that's not already in play if he was faking?

~A50

Good point.

Infinity 324 · Wed Apr 19, 2017 4:35 am

In post 2425, Wraith wrote:
In post 2421, Infinity 324 wrote:
In post 2411, Wraith wrote:I think a Mason fakeclaim by dreal was intended to open a lot of possibilities for his buddies:

1. dreal claims Mason, vouched for by his scumbuddy. I don't think this was going to happen since it means that fake Mason buddy is dead meat as soon as dreal flips scum

2. dreal claims Mason, no vouch by a scumbuddy and the scumbuddy joins the wagon. This is risky because it allows the town to wagon PoE his potential partner that he was hoping would vouch for him via PoE.

3. dreal claims Mason, no vouch by a scumbuddy because the scumbuddy was already bussing him. This is pretty cunning because the town might be seduced into determining the scumbuddy via wagon PoE as per #2, which can potentially give a false clear on players who were on the dreal wagon before the claim.

PREDIT:

Yes, it makes sense in flavor terms. But did people not already warn me that scum could easily have prepared flavor fakeclaims?

It also means fucking nothing until the partner actually vouches for him, and that you're taking it at face value without someone backing it up is fucking suspicious.
In #2 and #3, can't we just lynch dreal when we're in mylo/lylo and there's no other mason claim?
I want to do that
now

But I want to know who the Mason partner is. If I think it's a credible claim it might convince me to give drealmerz a reprieve today.

I'd prefer not to give scum the opportunity to shoot the partner

Infinity 324 · Wed Apr 19, 2017 4:42 am

This argument is dumb. The mason partner will claim today or tomorrow and if they don't we lynch dreal.

Just wanted to let everyone know that this is the day before mylo.

Infinity 324 · Wed Apr 19, 2017 4:53 am

In post 2447, Titus wrote:
In post 2442, Commander Shepard wrote:You're wrong. Mason doesn't claim.

Just because you have been doing it wrong longer doesn't mean jack.
Yeah, this response feels like dumb town thinking he knows better. Annoying as fuck but genuine.

Back to a more important subject: this is not how titus reads people.

In fact, titus has said before something along the lines of genuine-looking emotion is not more likely to come town. This isn't exactly emotion but it's pretty similar.

Titus likes hard evidence. VCA, pushes, and strong interactions are how she tends to read people. Not some shitty tone thing.

There's definitely something that's missing from titus's ISO that I usually find as town and sometimes as scum too. But this is not town!titus.

Nacho and gin both were trying to push her slot at the end of the day and she got nightkilled. And she kind of just...avoided that topic.

CK was pushing his vanity wagon all d1 while criticizing the vanity wagons. That combined with the fact that the stalling indicates that scum were probably off the major wagons looks really bad for this slot.

Titus is scum guys.

PEdit: holy shit I'll catch up eventually

Infinity 324 · Wed Apr 19, 2017 4:58 am

In post 2454, Commander Shepard wrote:Absolutely not.

We lynch scum today and keep lynching scum.

Partner should absolutely not claim.

FoS on Wraith growing.

No no no

I'm totally with you on the mason not claiming, but people who disagree aren't necessarily scum. People have different ideas about optimal play. Especially when wraith already suspected dreal before the claim.

Infinity 324 · Wed Apr 19, 2017 5:13 am

In post 2474, Titus wrote:
In post 2472, Wraith wrote:
In post 2467, Titus wrote:
In post 2464, Wraith wrote:FYI considering Shepard's vehement opposition to any of these a town flip by any of these players will practically confirm you as scum to me.

And vice versa if they flip scum.
Not quite sure about what this means.
Right now I feel I have a decent grasp on my reads. But if any of my current scumreads (drealmerz, Prism, AC) flip town, it would force me to drastically re-evaluate my perception of the game-state.

Meaning I would probably start scumreading T&B again as well as you.

While you have been saying a lot of sensible things I've been suckered in by that before. I'm pretty wary of you buddying me right now, as Shepard is arguably my strongest townread at the moment and he is pretty hostile toward you.
That's understandable, but I don't think we need to get to that point. I think Commander Shepard is town too and the simple explanation is Drealmerz/Prism or Infinity/A50 are scumfucks with one more in the lurkers.

So much fake

I think we should lynch titus and then work from there. If titus does flip scum, I may be coming around to a scumread on wraith--this post makes a lot of sense as telling wraith not to bus. But I don't want to lynch wraith until lylo for sure to give him a chance to die and confirm himself.

I'd also have to look into empking and shaddow. But I'd rather start with titus and figure the rest out later.

Infinity 324 · Wed Apr 19, 2017 5:15 am

In post 2491, Wraith wrote:TWC was the obvtown townie to ever town and their insights would be such a stabilizing force right now.

I'm not a magician, but I'd bet you good money TWC would be voting titus right now if they were alive.

Infinity 324 · Wed Apr 19, 2017 5:17 am

In post 2498, Wraith wrote:Like use your fucking brains.

If I am scum and got away with killing TWC, why would I come out and claim to have visited him the night he died? Why would I even be
dropping hints
that I did so? My claim was unprompted, I only did so because AC picked up on those hints and started pressing me about them. Why would I drop those hints if I'm scum and killed TWC? Why would I claim to have visited TWC and then been roleblocked if I'm actually scum and successfully nightkill them?

Use your fucking brains.

In case of a tracker or watcher.

Why wouldn't you?

Infinity 324 · Wed Apr 19, 2017 5:21 am

In post 2511, Wraith wrote:
In post 2507, Infinity 324 wrote:
In post 2491, Wraith wrote:TWC was the obvtown townie to ever town and their insights would be such a stabilizing force right now.
I'm not a magician, but I'd bet you good money TWC would be voting titus right now if they were alive.
If TWC was voting Titus right now I would be voting Titus with them.

But as is Titus is the only one right now speaking total sense and while that could be hardcore buddying there is no way in hell I am lynching the only sensible voice in the room when everyone else is going off the fucking rails.

Remember, TWC were the ones who sold me on this slot being a good lynch. They were desperately trying to get a deadline lynch on CK slot. And then they died.

Infinity 324 · Wed Apr 19, 2017 5:22 am

Also, unfortunately, sensible titus means scum titus.

Infinity 324 · Wed Apr 19, 2017 5:25 am

Yeah sorry, I'm not compromising today. Titus is such a confident scumread and there's no one else in the game that I'm comfortable lynching right now.

Infinity 324 · Wed Apr 19, 2017 5:31 am

In post 2469, Infinity 324 wrote:
In post 2447, Titus wrote:
In post 2442, Commander Shepard wrote:You're wrong. Mason doesn't claim.

Just because you have been doing it wrong longer doesn't mean jack.
Yeah, this response feels like dumb town thinking he knows better. Annoying as fuck but genuine.
Back to a more important subject: this is not how titus reads people.

In fact, titus has said before something along the lines of genuine-looking emotion is not more likely to come town. This isn't exactly emotion but it's pretty similar.

Titus likes hard evidence. VCA, pushes, and strong interactions are how she tends to read people. Not some shitty tone thing.

There's definitely something that's missing from titus's ISO that I usually find as town and sometimes as scum too. But this is not town!titus.

Nacho and gin both were trying to push her slot at the end of the day and she got nightkilled. And she kind of just...avoided that topic.

CK was pushing his vanity wagon all d1 while criticizing the vanity wagons. That combined with the fact that the stalling indicates that scum were probably off the major wagons looks really bad for this slot.

Titus is scum guys.

Quoted for visibility.

Infinity 324 · Wed Apr 19, 2017 5:32 am

People miss stuff a lot.

Infinity 324 · Wed Apr 19, 2017 5:34 am

People miss posts. That one was important enough that it was worth requoting so people don't miss it.

Infinity 324 · Wed Apr 19, 2017 5:40 am

In post 2533, Wraith wrote:Also you guys have constructed a scenario where I can't possibly be town

1. If I vote Titus and Titus flips scum, I'm bussing a scumbuddy
2. If I refuse to vote Titus and Titus flips scum, I'm refusing to bus a scumbuddy
3. If I vote Titus and Titus flips town, I've 180'd on my own reads and willfully mislynched a townread

I don't know about anyone else but I'm definitely giving you a chance no matter what titus flips. I just want you not to give up.

Infinity 324 · Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:31 am

In post 2537, Prism wrote:To clarify, 734 was directed at Drealm, not at me/TWC.

Wraith needs to take a goddamn timeout along with Infinity because both have been either scum or solid deadweight tunneling two town practically the entire game.

Mhm, I was tunneling dreal...

Infinity 324 · Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:17 am

Good point.

Better choose your BG target wisely!

I don't know whether I want to lynch dreal/prism when we get to lylo. On one hand, they were both in my scumpool before and they might be fakeclaiming. On the other hand, it seems so unlikely for scum to gambit like that.

But I'm pretty sure titus won't flip town so we'll have at least another day to sort it out.