Matrix6 BP fix
- Ircher
-
Ircher He / Him / HisWhat A Grand Idea
- Ircher
He / Him / His- What A Grand Idea
- What A Grand Idea
- Posts: 15190
- Joined: November 9, 2015
- Pronoun: He / Him / His
- Location: CST/CDT
- Lycanfire
-
Lycanfire Mafia Scum
- Lycanfire
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2645
- Joined: June 4, 2016
I personally intend to make Newbies great againIn post 25, Ircher wrote:Matrix6 is fine as-is imo. The BP strategy improves winrates.
If anything nedds improving, it's quality control on ICs.- UpTooLate
-
UpTooLate Mafia Scum
- UpTooLate
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2838
- Joined: December 23, 2015
- Location: Joisey
- Contact:
This isn't a thread about IC quality control, and that's a project currently being worked on.In post 25, Ircher wrote:Matrix6 is fine as-is imo. The BP strategy improves winrates.
If anything nedds improving, it's quality control on ICs.
The BP strategy is not how newbies should be introduced to the site. Period. "Here's a setup, let's find a way to get around it." As it's been stated before, the BP can then easily get less invested because they are pretty much conftown and don't need to worry about saving themselves. It's just a slippery slope we don't need in the Newbie Queue.- momo
-
momo Mafia Scum
- momo
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2415
- Joined: February 23, 2017
- Location: Timezone: EST
- Toomai
-
Toomai Goon
- Toomai
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 734
- Joined: January 12, 2013
- Location: Ontario
- Contact:
I agree with this. (To be honest I knew it was a weak reason to start with; I just wanted to introduce the name "Backup6". Because it has a Backup and is a backup to Matrix6. It's like irony or something.)In post 24, mhsmith0 wrote:True, but it's IMO less of an unbalancing issue than BP auto claiming and then tracker knows that he's dealing with a doc if there's no BP claim.
Is that actually proven in practice though? I don't keep stats on it because using a strategy is not an easily trackable thing, but I heard someone else is.In post 25, Ircher wrote:The BP strategy improves winrates.This should be required reading for...everyone for anything, really.- Ircher
-
Ircher He / Him / HisWhat A Grand Idea
- Ircher
He / Him / His- What A Grand Idea
- What A Grand Idea
- Posts: 15190
- Joined: November 9, 2015
- Pronoun: He / Him / His
- Location: CST/CDT
- mhsmith0
-
mhsmith0 Balancing Act
- mhsmith0
- Balancing Act
- Balancing Act
- Posts: 10830
- Joined: March 7, 2016
- Location: Phoenix, AZ
It's a very low sample size thing, but IIRC it's not a major improvement. It ALSO creates a situation where a doctor fakeclaim becomes much more teneble in goon-goon, since once all claim BP or tracker, you have 50% odds of it being cop only, PLUS you have an easy built-in excuse for being alive after said fakeclaim ("I got roleblocked"). Amusingly, doctor fakeclaim was tried in 1774 and it was JK/goon/goon, and the fakeclaiming scum got autolynchedShowhttp://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Mhsmith0
Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
BATMAN: Only jugg was the only one we didn’t scum read at least not me
Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
Life is simply unfair, don't you think?- mhsmith0
-
mhsmith0 Balancing Act
- mhsmith0
- Balancing Act
- Balancing Act
- Posts: 10830
- Joined: March 7, 2016
- Location: Phoenix, AZ
because people THINK it will improve win ratesIn post 30, Ircher wrote:If it doesn't improve winrates, why is used?Showhttp://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Mhsmith0
Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
BATMAN: Only jugg was the only one we didn’t scum read at least not me
Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
Life is simply unfair, don't you think?- RadiantCowbells
-
RadiantCowbells He/himSmooth Criminal
- RadiantCowbells
He/him- Smooth Criminal
- Smooth Criminal
- Posts: 70855
- Joined: February 24, 2013
- Pronoun: He/him
- Contact:
- RadiantCowbells
-
RadiantCowbells He/himSmooth Criminal
- RadiantCowbells
He/him- Smooth Criminal
- Smooth Criminal
- Posts: 70855
- Joined: February 24, 2013
- Pronoun: He/him
- Contact:
- Lycanfire
-
Lycanfire Mafia Scum
- Lycanfire
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2645
- Joined: June 4, 2016
- FireScreamer
-
FireScreamer Mafia Scum
- FireScreamer
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2414
- Joined: February 5, 2017
- Location: Prestwick, United Kingdom
Follow the Cop was fairly balanced. There's precedent to changing the newbie set up when it fails to provide a quality experience for newbies going back to the very start.In post 25, Ircher wrote:Matrix6 is fine as-is imo. The BP strategy improves winrates.
If anything nedds improving, it's quality control on ICs.In the dark, it's nearly invisible—until it exhales.- Toomai
-
Toomai Goon
- Toomai
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 734
- Joined: January 12, 2013
- Location: Ontario
- Contact:
Would ruin town's already-shaky winrate in the BP setups, and newbie setups should probably keep to Normal roles for best education of site meta.In post 35, Lycanfire wrote:make osbp active instead of passive, thoughtsThis should be required reading for...everyone for anything, really.- mhsmith0
-
mhsmith0 Balancing Act
- mhsmith0
- Balancing Act
- Balancing Act
- Posts: 10830
- Joined: March 7, 2016
- Location: Phoenix, AZ
Also the problem is that BP roles are incentivized to claim D1 (and towns are debatably incentivized to push for their claim or no claim), and this change fails to solve that problem.In post 37, Toomai wrote:
Would ruin town's already-shaky winrate in the BP setups, and newbie setups should probably keep to Normal roles for best education of site meta.In post 35, Lycanfire wrote:make osbp active instead of passive, thoughtsShowhttp://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Mhsmith0
Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
BATMAN: Only jugg was the only one we didn’t scum read at least not me
Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
Life is simply unfair, don't you think?- Creature
-
Creature Solve This Game
- Creature
- Solve This Game
- Solve This Game
- Posts: 46072
- Joined: January 26, 2016
- Location: Lands of Fire
- mhsmith0
-
mhsmith0 Balancing Act
- mhsmith0
- Balancing Act
- Balancing Act
- Posts: 10830
- Joined: March 7, 2016
- Location: Phoenix, AZ
UB only inherits roles from its own team. So can only inherit the JK role in column A, or tracker in row 3.Showhttp://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Mhsmith0
Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
BATMAN: Only jugg was the only one we didn’t scum read at least not me
Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
Life is simply unfair, don't you think?- Accountant
-
Accountant Jack of All Trades
- Accountant
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 6419
- Joined: May 16, 2015
- Location: Wonderland
Just throwing something out there - Mafia Encryptor? I enjoyed the daytalk experiment.There's nothing that says that a fake can't beat the real thing.
You must not imagine that for beings like you and us there can be laughter. The low men laugh, and we envy them. But for us, the higher ones, there is no laughter, only an unending vigil, purely serious, stretching on into the night.- FireScreamer
-
FireScreamer Mafia Scum
- FireScreamer
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2414
- Joined: February 5, 2017
- Location: Prestwick, United Kingdom
- Accountant
-
Accountant Jack of All Trades
- Accountant
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 6419
- Joined: May 16, 2015
- Location: Wonderland
No it doesn't. It's a game changer, sure, but the point of this thread is to change the setup.
It doesn't add any complexity at all. Why the hell would a newbie fid the concept of day talk confusing? They already can grasp night talk, just extend it to day.There's nothing that says that a fake can't beat the real thing.
You must not imagine that for beings like you and us there can be laughter. The low men laugh, and we envy them. But for us, the higher ones, there is no laughter, only an unending vigil, purely serious, stretching on into the night.- Toomai
-
Toomai Goon
- Toomai
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 734
- Joined: January 12, 2013
- Location: Ontario
- Contact:
We're trying to change a reasonably-balanced setup as little as possible to disable the popular new claim strategy being paraded around. Let's not tweak more than what's needed.This should be required reading for...everyone for anything, really.- FireScreamer
-
FireScreamer Mafia Scum
- FireScreamer
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2414
- Joined: February 5, 2017
- Location: Prestwick, United Kingdom
- FireScreamer
-
FireScreamer Mafia Scum
- FireScreamer
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2414
- Joined: February 5, 2017
- Location: Prestwick, United Kingdom
I've seen this mistake been made often enough by actual good players that it needs a line in the rules specifically refuting itIn post 39, Creature wrote:Wait, Universal Backup?
So if Mafia Roleblocker is lynched then town gets a Town Roleblocker?In the dark, it's nearly invisible—until it exhales.- FireScreamer
-
FireScreamer Mafia Scum
- FireScreamer
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2414
- Joined: February 5, 2017
- Location: Prestwick, United Kingdom
- Toomai
-
Toomai Goon
- Toomai
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 734
- Joined: January 12, 2013
- Location: Ontario
- Contact:
Quickly thrown-together example role PM wrote:You are aTown Universal Backup. The first time a town-aligned player who is not a Vanilla Townie dies, you will inherit their role. You will receive the new role PM immediately once the other player has died. You will not receive information about any of that player's previous actions or results. If you die, you will be flipped as "Town Universal Backup" in all circumstances.This should be required reading for...everyone for anything, really.Copyright © MafiaScum. All rights reserved.
- Toomai
- FireScreamer
- FireScreamer
- FireScreamer
- Toomai
- Accountant
- FireScreamer
- Accountant
- mhsmith0
- Creature
- mhsmith0
- Toomai
- FireScreamer
- Lycanfire
- RadiantCowbells
- RadiantCowbells
- mhsmith0
- mhsmith0
- Ircher
- Toomai
- momo
- UpTooLate
- Lycanfire
- Ircher