Open 680.1 C9++ | Endgame

[shannon]

VOTE: Umlaut for thinking I was scum in version 1 of this game

[shannon]

I say we lynch out of Frank, Alch, Me, and Frank's Wifey. That's a decent scumpool.

Hey she's not just Frank's Wifey, she's an independent person of her own!

VOTE: fire
For not getting us to page 19 by now

Sheeping my mason buddy here
VOTE: FireScreamer

Fake claiming masons is like, #1 on my most hated thing that people do ever. Would vote you if I wasn't already voting you.

Official Vote Count

Brian Skies

(3): CommKnight, Titus, Alchemist21

Umlaut

(2): shannon, Green Crayons

FireScreamer

(1): FrankJaeger

Not Voting

(7): Narna, davesaz, Brian Skies, FireScreamer, Umlaut, RoryMK, Necta

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2017-05-03 20:06:48)

That's two votes, I should probably claim.

Dont out us yet

I can't believe I'm doing this.

VOTE: Frank (evil joke mason claiming Frank, not my cutest labradorable puppy Frank)

[shannon]

Because they're both making faux claims and I thought it was time to change things up

[shannon]

It took forever for the page to load just then, I thought the server was down again

[shannon]

Oshawott, come back and talk to me. ):

You have to say, 'Oshawott I choose you!'

Because they're both making faux claims and I thought it was time to change things up

If you suspect them both, why change it up when the first one was already gaining votes (and was a wagon you started)? What makes you think they're faux claims?

I said i was going to soft mason D1. before the reroll

^^That's what makes me think faux claims. Also no one else is taking it seriously as they would if it was a real claim. I always policy vote fake claims, no matter how fake, I'm just sharing the votes around. I can go back to the other faker if it bothers you? ((This is essentially RVS))

[shannon]

Shannon why are you offering to recind a vote if it makes someone uncomfortable?

It's not a literal offer, it's intended to show that the vote is not Serious.

^^That's what makes me think faux claims. Also no one else is taking it seriously as they would if it was a real claim. I always policy vote fake claims, no matter how fake,

You didn't vote Titus last game for fakeclaiming "two letters."

When she first claimed I thought it was real. When she rescinded it I already had a town read on her, *and* a scum read on the person she had tried to fake out. In that instance, voting Titus might have shifted the whole game in a way I didn't want it to go.

@shannon:

Because they're both making faux claims and I thought it was time to change things up

If you suspect them both, why change it up when the first one was already gaining votes (and was a wagon you started)? What makes you think they're faux claims?

I'm interested in your answer to this question.

I've never been a mason so I don't know exactly how I'd claim, but I think 'Hey mason buddy' 'Don't out us yet, buddy' kind of stuff is not the way.

Umlaut and Titus are voting together. Given the events of last game, one or both should be scum.

I think the last game might introduce some biases here that aren't helpful, to say the least.

[shannon]

PS I will be out a lot for the next three days with a work thing. I will be able to post in the evenings but not during the day.

[shannon]

On a serious note. VOTE: FireScreamer.

His play feels off from last game.

{FrankJaeger, Brian Skies, Narna}
{Alchemist, Green Crayons}
{davesaz, Titus, shannon, RoryMK, Necta}
{Umlaut, FireScreamer}

If FireScreamer is red, I'm willing to bet Shannon is too.

VOTE: shannon

Is anyone allowed to ask why or are you wanting to engage Shannon herself?

Also, the likelyhood of mafia last game being mafia this game will actually probably be unlikely. So I'm pretty confident in the team being green this time around. But TB definitely rolled some of our bloc from last game as red this one. I'm willing to bet on it being FS of all people.

Can we not tie me to the flip of random players please? And unless you think that you're a better town than any other town I ever played scum against, ScumMe wouldn't need Fire's coaching at the start of D1.

I've never been a mason so I don't know exactly how I'd claim, but I think 'Hey mason buddy' 'Don't out us yet, buddy' kind of stuff is not the way.

The question focused on why you switched from Suspect #1 to Suspect #2, when both suspects were doing the same suspicious thing. I don't think you answered that yet.

Just for shits and giggles, really. I didn't want to get stuck in a tunnel.

^^That's what makes me think faux claims. Also no one else is taking it seriously as they would if it was a real claim. I always policy vote fake claims, no matter how fake, I'm just sharing the votes around. I can go back to the other faker if it bothers you? ((This is essentially RVS))

Once again, why're you just immediately assuming their claims are fake? I also don't really care whether you vote Umlaut or not. I'm more interested in why you decided to change your vote.

Once again, I assumed fake because it's not a context in which I'd expect real mason claims to be made. As above, I changed vote because I figured, why not?

Umlaut and Titus are voting together. Given the events of last game, one or both should be scum.

I think the last game might introduce some biases here that aren't helpful, to say the least.

What do you mean? I'm sensing a pro-Titus bias that isn't helpful.

Biases like: X isn't playing the same, so they must be a different alignment, as though no one thought to change their play style between games.

[shannon]

I didn't want to get stuck in a tunnel.

Why would you have gotten stuck in a tunnel on an RVS vote? This sounds like an excuse made up by nervous scum.

VOTE: Shannon

Maybe it's hard to tell tone on the internet, maybe we have cultural differences, but I was taking the piss.

[shannon]

I can either explain it to you and it will be awkward, or we can just accept that you didn't realise I was being sarcastic and move on.

[shannon]

I can either explain it to you and it will be awkward, or we can just accept that you didn't realise I was being sarcastic and move on.

I mean I can't really argue with you if you say it was meant to be sarcastic, but when multiple people are asking you a serious question when trying to get a read on you, sarcasm isn't the answer. Ircher tried that shit too in the last game.

Ah so that's where we're missing each other; you're trying to ask a serious question about something I said just out of hand.

[shannon]

Oooh err it's getting interesting.

If I knew how to put gifs in I'd do the popcorn one

[shannon]

It's so weird playing another game with the same people, it's like we're in a continuation of that one somehow.

[shannon]

The math stuff is dumb

because everyone (should) recognize that what you rolled last game has no causative effect on what you rolled this game BUT ALSO any given player has less of a chance to roll scum twice in a row in the same game setup (4/13 + 4/13 = 8/26) than roll scum once and then town once in the same game setup (4/13 + 9/13= 13/26). Also that math is very simplified because not every game has a set 4 anti-town slots but the general principle is there.

Shun the non-believer, shun, shuuuuuuuun

[shannon]

Night night numbats, I'll be back with more general bullshittery tomorrow evening. Try to get to 25 pages by then.

[shannon]

Can we slow down? I do has work and other games? Is shannon lynched yet?

I just counted and you have 180 new posts on the site in the past 24 hours, 3 of which are in this thread. "I do has work and other games" just isn't enough to account for that kind of discrepancy.

Honestly I'm not as ready as some people are to scumread you for this. While I've never met scum!Titus, I've heard she's pretty crafty, so I don't believe she has a tell this blatant. But... what gives?

We are not lynching me. That's all I have time to say before I go to work. Be good and post lots x

[shannon]

Can we slow down? I do has work and other games? Is shannon lynched yet?

I just counted and you have 180 new posts on the site in the past 24 hours, 3 of which are in this thread. "I do has work and other games" just isn't enough to account for that kind of discrepancy.

Honestly I'm not as ready as some people are to scumread you for this. While I've never met scum!Titus, I've heard she's pretty crafty, so I don't believe she has a tell this blatant. But... what gives?

Trying to find gems in crap is insane. I just know shannon's scum.

Like whowver else has 3 votes prolly town too

Nope, we're still not lynching me. Sorry not sorry.

"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence."

You aren't offering evidence that Shannon is scum, so I'm going to dismiss that read.

If I ask
"What makes you so sure of X?"
and you answer
"Well of course I don't

know

X 100%, no one can be 100% sure of anything except scum, I don't have to be 100% sure just to say what I think"
then you haven't actually told me why you're so sure of X, you've just evaded the question.

You're asking me how I know someone in last game's town bloc is definite scum. Well it can never be 100% we could all be town this game and it could be a game full of lurker scum allowing the town to go at each other. However, that is counter intuitive. I see FS postings as off. Even if only slightly. I can't point at something and be like "Ah ha, he's 100% scum, let's lynch him". I can only state that his reaction thus far hasn't been quite what I'd expect from him as town again.

This still doesn't explain anything. You're saying

• You think someone in the townbloc is scum, because you think it's unlikely that no one in the townbloc is scum, because that would mean no one in the townbloc is scum.
  
• You think FS is scummy, because his posts are off, because he's not acting like town.

You're not explaining anything.

Umlaut for King of Town. Unfortunately I think Comm is town too.

[shannon]

Hmm I thought I declared VLA here? Maybe I didn't do it right. Anyway, it's over, but I need to catch up elsewhere first x

[shannon]

I've read the last five pages but not in huge detail. I intend to re-read the whole game either tonight or tomorrow - it's a public hol here Tuesday, hooray. If anyone has anything they particularly want to draw my attention to, please say so.

Growlithe can't even learn growl what a shitter.

Growlithe is my second fave pokemon, please no smack talking about him or I will be forced to lynch you.

@GC, well consider this: FS hasn't really stated a good reads list of his own. Really only "questions" mine. If he flips red, I'd say because my reads might be correct. He's worried about being singled out by PoE. Not only that, but asking why I TR people constantly seems to be unsure scum who want to know why they aren't in my TR pile. If they were town, they'd create cases for me to examine why I SHOULDN'T TR someone. Not just telling me I shouldn't because herp derp, they told me so.

I'm comfortable with flipping FS today. You mix his play with his earlier statements of me not being able to lynch him, makes me want to see him lynched all the more just to show his cockiness as scum doesn't work when up against me. When you're in my sights, you're going to either claim or be lynched eventually. No way around it for him now.

I haven't looked in detail at what you're referring to here, but it does seem like a different FS from last game where he was kinda power town. Remember that 'being scum' is not the only possible explanation for a shift in style like that. I think we should leave FS for today, and see what shakes out tomorrow or when we get to claiming. I just have a feeling about this. (I know, feelings aren't reasons but this is where I'm at).

Also, some players just don't give reads lists until they're more sure of things, I don't know whether FS is particularly one of them but for me that's not hugely AI this early.

I found Titus's timing suspicious, and wanted to engage Titus on the timing of her vote.

You came up with Titus failing to articulate any suspicions as scummy, and you are faulting me for failing to engage Titus on not articulating suspicions.

So, whatever.

LOL I never said it was scummy.

The whole fucking point is that you voted her for voting Shannon (a vote you wanted) before you did

.

And I'm saying that she could have found Shannon suspicious as well, and just went ahead and voted Shannon instead of waiting on it.

Seriously, GC can hang today.

I think TownTitus calls someone out for exactly what you're saying she's done herself. Like say, if I'd seen someone make a case on you, and jumped in and voted you without explanation, she'd be first on my case for the opportunistic voting. Does ScumTitus make this mistake herself? I don't know, I've never seen scum Titus, but it doesn't immediately sound like TownTitus to me.

I never said and never mean to imply that Alchemist is suspicious of Titus.

What did happen is Alchemist created a suspicion -- Titus failed to articulate the reason for her shannon vote -- and then faulted me for failing to have adopted THAT suspicious and try to press titus for THAT suspicious rather than for the suspicion I actually had at the time.

Which is PRET-TEE hilariously bad.

This sentence makes my head hurt.

Well, there are more people sheeping me or claiming to sympathize with me, so...?

Titus who is whatever
Narna is whatever
Alchemist is suspicious because his reasons are rivaling your scare tactic, plus he's in GOLDEN SPOT NO. 4

Umlaut has also claimed he thinks I'm town. As well as Rory (although Rory does it in a very shady manner).

You have...FS and GS?

'What do you think about the people tepidly agreeing with me?'
'More people seem to agree with me?'
'Yeah, but your people don't count.'

???

This appeal to authority does not sit well with me.

[shannon]

@Comm I don't like your pressure vote for claim on someone you town read.

If you are sure in your read, you're risking outing a PR and having the whole thing go to shit.

VOTE: Comm

[shannon]

Guys I have to admit that, as someone not directly involved in all this back and forth, it's bloody hard to follow.

PS - Brian cute cloud for townie of the week

[shannon]

(Also who the hell doesn't know who Elon Musk is?)

*snippy*

But that has nothing to do with me voting GC. It's a compromise. Get this done and over with so I can push on FS. I could park my vote on FS but with how town is being, it's not going to produce results till I know we can put him at L1. If you're voting for a lynch without a claim, say so now and I'll lynch your ass today. I always prioritize claim first. Anyone who hammers before a claim is the next day's lynch.

If you're worried about outing PR's then why the hell do you bother voting anyone? You might as well no-lynch and let the PR's go to work. If today is going to progress, GC is going to need to claim, else, town is going to be too stubborn to actually LOOK at FS. (And no Umlaut, your view of FS has been less than helpful, I'm trying to get the actual town to look at FS, not someone who's been defending FS all along).

What's the case on FS?
It's too early in the day to be making compromises.

Like after Comm claimed in the last game there was a definite tonal shift towards more reasoned play which made the claim of them acting scummy on purpose more believable. They seem to know what more townie behavior than this is. Why don't they do it?

Unless that shift was a placebo because I was suddenly looking for town after the claim. But I know I wasn't the only person to notice that.

This is an interesting question. Are you looking for answers or do you think you have an answer, besides the obvious but probably unlikely 'scum doing the same thing again'?

lolol

Literally the person who came up with a lack of reasoning is Alchemist.

JFC he literally is the one who came up with it. I didn't say it first. he did. I was responding to him. You don't get to then say "oh ho he was responding to you". He was responding to me responding to him.

No one cares. You're spamming the game you two.

I feel like we need to start this over because Titus is at least right that this is starting to get unreadable with all the spam. Can all relevant parties please state their current read on Titus, and why?

Yeah, I can see that.

But CommKnight is literally voting Green Crayons just to get his claim. Not because he thinks Green Crayons is scum.

@Brian, would you say replacing out was not a sign of getting a role someone did not like?

And I thought this was pretty rolefishy too.

You make a good point.

[shannon]

Someone asked why I town read Comm early.

I liked that he gave reads lists, and that he tried to sort out who to vote for using math, even if that math proved to be incorrect. I got the sense that he was really committed to the probability discussion he was having with Umlaut and that he genuinely believed in that strategy. I didn't mind his vote against Fire in 163 for 'his play feels off from last game', because it does.

If you see my 338 I say that I think Umlaut is like super town, and Comm is town too. Their discussion was the Big Thing happening around the post 160s and on, and it read like Comm was genuinely trying to math his way to reads, and Umlaut was genuinely trying to correct him.

[shannon]

We have more than half the day left.

It's not the claiming VT, it's the claiming at L-2 that is sounding lynchbait alarms for me. Scum can be lynchbait too but I want to think about it more, and meanwhile there are other things worth pursuing today too.

If this is how it works, I'm adding claiming at L-2 to my Book of Scum Strategies. Sorta feels like you want this wagon to go away? I think we can do worse than lynch a VT, FWIW.

[shannon]

Hey Shannon can we chat?

Sure, let's hope I can keep up with you

[shannon]

I feel like there's a difference between what you're saying here:

Half the day left? If you think you found scum, you lynch it.

and what you're saying here:

Maybe he's town, maybe he's scum trying to diffuse his own wagon. At the very least I know he's not a PR and probably a safer lynch than anything else that's going to be pushed today.

How confident are you that CommKnight is scum?

FWIW I am getting more confident in his being scum, the more you try to derail the wagon at L-2. Frankly if someone claims VT Day 1 and we don't have any other outstandingly scummy option, I reckon we lynch the VT.

[shannon]

I have a serious question. Where the hell did all of ya'll get your previous experience playing mafia from? It's like playing the game with guppies who think they're a shark.

I am but a humble otter, looking for other town otters with which to hold hands and float about the ocean

[shannon]

What is your opinion on the GC/Alchemist issue?
BTW feel free to ask me questions as well.

I am finding it very hard to keep track of what's actually gone on there. Let me go back and re-read the original posts (not all the pages of stuff that's come afterward) so I can give you a proper answer.

[shannon]

I have just skimmed a million pages and come to a conclusion I wasn't expecting.

GC is suspicious of me in 132
Titus votes me in 151
Fire asks whether he can ask her why, or does she just want to engage me herself in 152
In 153 and 154 GC accuses Titus of jumping in front of his vote on me

From 164 on, GC asks me about my vote change from one faux-mason to another, following up on *his* suspicions of me.
In 229, Alchemist asks me further about my vote change on the mason issue.
I respond in 240, Alchemist votes me in 243
we go back and forth a bit
Alchemist unvotes me in 288

In 342, GC asks Titus again about her vote on me
GC asks follow ups in 357
Titus says GC is scum for whining in 390

Three quick votes on GC - 402, 403, 404 (for unrelated stuff - complaining about someone complaining about trust tells)
410 Alchemist could support the GC wagon but wants to stay on Rory

Gamma brings up the Titus voting me issue again in 412 (he has been ISOing GC?) and asks for an explanation.
GC responds in 421

Alchemist gets involved, says it doesn't look like GC was expressing suspicion in 132. (See 425).
GC responds in 519
Alchemist 532 'You didn't call (titus) out for lack of reasoning, but for voting before you did'

The rest I am calling 'blah blah blah'.

So now I know why I was confused: The issue is between GC and Alchemist, but it was started by Gamma in 412, some 300-odd posts after the initial issue.

Here's what I think currently:

- I still don't know why Titus voted me (and I don't think she followed up with me after she voted me, which is bad).
- I don't get how GC is in trouble here, when it's Titus who dodged that question (of why she voted me) and GC made attempts to follow it up, while Titus lurked.
- I don't get why Gamma waited 300 posts to bring it up
- If there was an issue at the time, why was it not discussed when GC and Alchemist were both asking me about my vote change between faux masons in the 150s, 160s, and 200s?

Theory: The three quick votes on GC (402, 403, 404) regarding the 'trust tell' issue are what sparked the whole thing. ScumGamma has gone looking for an angle that will allow him to vote GC while the wagon is hot. ScumAlchemist is doing the same. He didn't

need

to do it back when GC was trying to engage with Titus originally, because at that point, it looked like

I

could be a viable mislynch (GC, Titus, Alchemist, possibly more...) and that was a better play for him until he realised my wagon was going nowhere.

Not sure whether to vote Gamma, Alchemist, or Titus. But I'm not voting GC.

[shannon]

UNVOTE: because Comm is not as bad as this other lot

[shannon]

VOTE: Alchemist

[shannon]

OK, how do you construe them?

[shannon]

(I'm going for a little while, that big post made my head explode, but I"ll be back this evening x)

[shannon]

Shannon, when you're done putting your head back together, let me know what you think of Rory.

I don't know what to make of his alignment but his posts don't have a lot of substance.

Lots of one liners, 'I agree with this', 'Can I get more info', but no real positions taken, no really hard questions asked.

515 is interesting - looks like Comm has accused Rory of using his mod access to view the existence of a scum PT???

I definitely can't scum read Rory for what I see here so far, but there's no real reason to town read him either. Overall I'd say C+, lacks substance, could do better.

[shannon]

UNVOTE: CommKnight
It's too early to lynch and I think we've gotten what we can out of this wagon.

Gotten what we can? Are you claim collecting?

Why does everyone think this is about the claim.

What is it about, then?

[shannon]

In 342, GC asks Titus again about her vote on me
GC asks follow ups in 357

Also, thanks for confirming that GC did, in fact, engage Titus on his suspicions.

It seems the sort of thing that is easily verifiable by reading GC's ISO. And then once GC's follow up question is noticed, it should have been like 'OK you did follow up but Titus didn't answer - Why didn't Titus answer, and why didn't you keep pushing it?' Not the shit show we've had.

The most damning point for me is that the whole thing was a total non-issue until Gamma brought it up like 300 posts later. And if anything I'd have expected Titus to be lambasted for not answering the question (why she voted me with no explanation) rather than Alch for not following up enough. (It is bloody hard to follow up with Titus, especially when Titus is lurking for hundreds of posts at a time).

Seriously, I think there's scum here. I was being voted by GC and then Titus, and Alch chose to engage me about my reads but not Titus for not responding to GC. Then when it became clear I was not going to be wagoned, Gamma brought up GC and Titus again, and Alch went after GC.

I mean there were three naked votes on Alch in a row, and it was at that time - 300 odd posts after Titus first voted me - that Gamma chose to ask Alch why he hadn't followed up with Titus more.

Join me here on Alch or Gamma because I'm pretty sure this is where scum's at.

[shannon]

Can everyone drop this and vote with me please?

@Fire I'll vote Gamma with you, his play is dodgy a.f.

[shannon]

VOTE: Gamma

Let's do this now rather than 300 posts later

[shannon]

What is the specific issue here?

Answer this question Shannon.

The specific issue is that it was you who started the whole GC vs Alchemist shit show we've been seeing the past umpteen pages.

Long long ago, in a post known as 151, Titus voted me without giving a reason. GC got mad at Titus for doing that, because he wanted to vote me first, and Titus didn't give a reason for the vote. Alchemist got involved, and started asking me to justify my actions.

That looks, to me, like the start of a wagon on me. Except it wasn't. Titus didn't come back to answer GC's questions, the wagon moved on, and Alchemist unvoted me.

Much later, these names popped up again.

In 390, Titus calls GC scum for whining. There are three naked votes on GC shortly after. A shonky looking wagon, from my POV.

You followed that up, not by asking Titus why she'd continued to evade GC's questions, but by accusing GC of not even asking follow up questions. And that's plainly false, and you can see it in GC's ISO.

Then Alchemist got involved again, and said he didn't think Titus had a case to answer because it didn't even look like GC was suspicious of me. My problems with this are that he didn't bring it up at the time (he waited for your prompting), and that he refused to accept a reasonable explanation from GC.

So: My issue with you is that you waited until a very opportune moment to bring up GC's supposed failing re: Titus, the point you made was false, and it gave Alchemist an in to really wagon GC.

If you're

not

directly involved, you should join me in looking at Alch and Titus very closely because this is really bad stuff.

[shannon]

I very clearly cannot read you. Do more things. Give me a fighting chance. Sort and be sorted. Don't just turtle up.

I don't think you are reading me anyway.

What have you done for me to attempt reading?

I've been giving you the benefit of the doubt here because I think you'd be a real asset if you started working at this game and theres plenty of time left for you to do it. So yeah you are right I havn't been reading you but i've been waiting for you to give me something to read.

To start, can you please tell me why you voted me way back in the 100s?

The most damning point for me is that the whole thing was a total non-issue until Gamma brought it up like 300 posts later.

The specific issue is that it was [Gamma] who started the whole GC vs Alchemist shit show we've been seeing the past umpteen pages.

I don't get this impression.

What's the impression that you get? For me, Gamma, Alch, and Titus all come out of it looking bad.

I can see it, though it was not my intention. I ended up causing an avalanche of strife by shaking a tree of a question.

It was the wrong question. Should've asked, 'Titus, why didn't you answer GC's question'.

[shannon]

Can someone who isn't Commknight explain to me why they are voting me. Can they also explain to me why they think Commknight is voting for me.

I was voting you because Comm said you were playing at a lower level than your last run, but your last post seems to counter that. I don't particularly care to read the last run so could you or Comm do a summary?

Can we lynch this already?

[shannon]

I wasn't disturbed by Titus' irresponsiveness, and I hadn't read past that post so I couldn't tell she didn't answer. I was disturbed by GC's phrasing.

So you saw like 300 posts had happened between Titus voting me and you asking GC the question, and it didn't occur to you to:
- read a few more pages to see if it had been resolved
- read a few more pages to see whether anyone else had asked what you were going to ask
- ISO any of the involved players to establish same?

Your iso suggests ... that might actually be the case. It shows you responding to posts in order, regardless of what might have happened in between. OK, I believe you.

VOTE: Alchemist

[shannon]

@Shannon: Perhaps you didn't notice, but the post in question 356 (provided I'm guessing this is the one you're talking about) was early in Gamma's catchup upon replacing in. So the whole "he waited hundreds of posts to bring it up" part of the initial case against him was a non issue. It was almost the very first thing Gamma did of substance.

Does this clarification of the timeline affect your position vis. GE "stirring up stuff"?[/quote]

I don't know what order you're reading in, but yes it did, see my previous posts.

[shannon]

Dave, I could likely be sold on Titus but there are two things stopping me:

1. I've never played with Titus in this mode and can't pattern-match what she's doing to any particular scum MO. You seem to have more experience there so maybe you can point me to relevant examples of Titus' use and misuse of VCA.
   
2. I was certain she was scum last roll and I was completely wrong. Her play is obviously very
   different
   this time, and the circumstances are different too (she's not death-tunneling me this time for one), but all the same I'd really like to hear more from players who correctly townread Titus last game. (My first choice would be Narna except I'm not really townreading him.)

Last game I was sure she was town, her actions were 100% what I know of town titus. (I've played with her as town maybe 4 or 5 times now? Neither of us has ever been scum in a game we've shared). Regarding pattern matching, her actions here don't match what I know of Town Titus. You are right that she's different. Whether that's because she's rolled a PR, rolled SK, or rolled Scum, or just busy IRL, IDK.

[shannon]

I wasn't disturbed by Titus' irresponsiveness, and I hadn't read past that post so I couldn't tell she didn't answer. I was disturbed by GC's phrasing.

So you saw like 300 posts had happened between Titus voting me and you asking GC the question, and it didn't occur to you to:
- read a few more pages to see if it had been resolved
- read a few more pages to see whether anyone else had asked what you were going to ask
- ISO any of the involved players to establish same?

Your iso suggests ... that might actually be the case. It shows you responding to posts in order, regardless of what might have happened in between. OK, I believe you.

VOTE: Alchemist

Can you look back on the Gamma progression on me and comm and come back on the wagon kthanks

inb4 'shannon was bussing gamma and then the wagon got strong and she left it but now she's worried about not being on it so she came back'

[shannon]

VOTE: firescreamer

most scummy person rn

Growlithe used Vote. It was not very effective.

Join me on Alchemist?

[shannon]

Umlaut firescreamer alchemist scumteam

Davesaz sk

Final guess

While the undeniable benefit of not having two fire-persons in the game can't be understated, I'd prefer you to bus Alchemist please

[shannon]

Why is Gamma Emerald a wagon? Last I remember I saw more genuine attempt to solve from him than from anyone else.

I realize you're working in chronological order, but the best way to find an answer to this is just to read the segment of the game during which the wagon built up. Once you get to that I'd appreciate your thoughts on the cases presented.

I'll go further: Regardless of whether you think my case on Gamma was any good, I want to know what you think of the people who followed me on to him.

The TLDR is that Alchemist was voting Gamma as an OMGUS.
I voted Gamma but implicated Alchemist as being his team mate. (Alchemist voted elsewhere but I can't be arsed seeing whether it was before or after I voted)
Then FireScreamer, Narna, Umlaut, and Alchemist all voted Gamma again.

FireScreamer has emerged as the Gamma alt-wagon, Gamma apparently has no reads to vote despite having read the whole game ...

[shannon]

His reads list is very safe. He inexplicably refused to speculate on why town Dave would be townreading him despite being in a situation where he has to have thought about that. Has been reactive and sort of around but refusing to step out of the nullspace to form a strong opinion on anything.

Oh, is this a case on Gamma? Okay, he gets 1.

I just reviewed Gamma like you asked Fire and I can't say any reason to town read Gamma, it's mostly lazy play where he quotes a bunch of stuff and gives a one liner like 'this looks town' or 'reads change'. It's fine to do that stuff sometimes, but without anything substantive accompanying it I'd call it null at best.

[shannon]

While the undeniable benefit of not having two fire-persons in the game can't be understated, I'd prefer you to bus Alchemist please

Shannon this is gross.

Don't blame me if I get confused between you later in the game, then!

(That was a poorly phrased joke, I just got done with a game where I accidentally bussed my scum buddy to death D1 because their name was similar to another player's name, and both slots replaced and I got mixed up).

(Not that I'm claiming to be scum with either Screamy or Growlithe here, of course)

[shannon]

Gamma, who on your wagon do you think is scum?

UNVOTE: Gamma Emerald

Will reconsider this when I get back.

this is nasty
VOTE: Umlaut

What's nasty about it?

Also, who *did* you think was scum on your wagon?

[shannon]

Gamma, who on your wagon do you think is scum?

UNVOTE: Gamma Emerald

Will reconsider this when I get back.

this is nasty
VOTE: Umlaut

What's nasty about it?

Also, who *did* you think was scum on your wagon?

Asks about scumreads on my wagon
Leaves my wagon

You can't tell me something isn't up.

Other than him, I don't really have scumreads on people from my wagon.

Waaaay ahead of you dude. Are you even reading this game?

I wasn't disturbed by Titus' irresponsiveness, and I hadn't read past that post so I couldn't tell she didn't answer. I was disturbed by GC's phrasing.

So you saw like 300 posts had happened between Titus voting me and you asking GC the question, and it didn't occur to you to:
- read a few more pages to see if it had been resolved
- read a few more pages to see whether anyone else had asked what you were going to ask
- ISO any of the involved players to establish same?

Your iso suggests ... that might actually be the case. It shows you responding to posts in order, regardless of what might have happened in between. OK, I believe you.

VOTE: Alchemist

Can you look back on the Gamma progression on me and comm and come back on the wagon kthanks

inb4 'shannon was bussing gamma and then the wagon got strong and she left it but now she's worried about not being on it so she came back

'

And actually, why not go back?

VOTE: Gamma

Gamma is L-1

[shannon]

@Gamma I quoted myself, are you even reading -

1189
inb4 'shannon was bussing gamma and then the wagon got strong and she left it but now she's worried about not being on it so she came back'

[shannon]

I mean, ScumYou knows I'm not bussing, but it might look like that to anyone else. If anyone *does* think I'm bussing, goodo, ask Gamma for his claim please.

[shannon]

Shannon is scum this game.

Is this based on her last post or is there more?

I think it's based on his imagination as much as anything.