DoY I: British Monarchy Mafia (Mini 1896) - Game Over :O

[Wraith]

Sup

I'm gonna Unite the shit outta this Kingdom

[Wraith]

please no spam

[Wraith]

I feel like I've seen this episode a hundred times

[Wraith]

4 pages while I was asleep 0_0

I'm a miller

Miller? In a Mini?

...Really?

[Wraith]

King Edward V*

rofl are you serious?

One of the Princes in the Tower? A Miller?

[Wraith]

Dunno. I've only vaguely been following along the past two days since I hate RVS, but planned to catch back up after we hit 10 pages.

[Wraith]

I just don't buy it. But I am also seeing it largely out of context.

[Wraith]

Spoiler: Stream-Of-Consciousness Wall

* Pine has a one-post ISO
* T&B scumreading dreal right off the bat is ew. This is pretty typical dreal. One reason why I ignored the thread for the first couple days was because people were pushing so hard on easy target dreal
* Seriously using meta to justify a page 3 scumread? Uh
* And another (nancy) jumps on dreal for being dreal. This is an infuriating reality of every dreal game.
* I really don't like how T&B keeps digging a tunnel with a spoon
* Again I'm super-skeptical of Infinity's Miller claim. It was totally unprompted, but that means nothing when it comes to Miller claims - it could just as easily be scum trying to preemptively justify an investigation result as it could be town preemptively attempting to dispel uncertainty. But his flavor claim (Edward V) makes

absolutely

no sense IMO. Richard III would make

much

more sense for a Miller. Miller also seems like a very unusual pick for a Mini, unless it's only part of the role.
* Bork's entrance jumping immediately on the dreal wagon is super scummy
* Same with Empking
* I like Prism's entrance into the game though
* While I'm skeptical of Infinity's Miller claim I approve of his posting so far
* WoodCutters seriously needs to sign their bloody posts EDIT: And they refuse to which is fucking annoying
* I have to agree with WC that nancy's literal OMGUS is awful
* I think T&B's #145 is awful. I don't think I'm the first to point this out
* Bork's #147 um...
* I hate AC's entrance into the game too. Of the other two I mentioned earlier, Bork is still really scummy to me but Empking got better
* ARGH SPAM WC STAHP
* ARGH BADLY-FORMATTED WALLS DREAL STAHP
* AC and nancy both lash out at a different player for "butting in" while they are having a conversation with someone else. They both use it as an easy excuse to not answer the player who "butt in"
* @WC: There were two reasons I just ignored the drealmerz drama after that comment - yeah, laziness was one, and the second was something you mentioned: it's really easy to get sucked into defending drealmerz for a long period that doesn't do much good, especially since committing to defending a particular player hardcore this early could be self-defeating
* OH GOD THE SPAM PLS NO The worst thing about WC's spam is that I feel obligated to actually read it because their heads actually say things of import
* AC's WIFOM-heavy #275 is terrible. Most egregious is their insistence that Tracker or Neapolitan would catch them if they were fakeclaiming - AC could easily just be a Goon.

Right now I could go for Bork, Nancy, AC, or T&B about in that order.

Since this already has some footing:

VOTE: nancy

[Wraith]

In case you forget how to do those wall posts like you did there, here's your ISO for a refresher
viewtopic.php?t=69849&f=2&st=0&sk=t&sd= ... er_sort=Go

Fun fact: Since I knew it was multiball in that game I approached it as closely to how I would have as town as possible. I believe I stated that outright in the post-game.

And I said why I voted for Nancy over Bork - because it's a wagon that currently has footing. If you want to get a Bork wagon started I'm down for that. And I voted for Nancy over AC because I'm slightly more certain about that read.

[Wraith]

How strange it is that T&B is shifting to attacking me immediately after I shifted against him, but his avenue of attack completely ignores my most recent posts where I changed my view on Infinity.

[Wraith]

How strange it is that T&B is shifting to attacking me immediately after I shifted against him, but his avenue of attack completely ignores my most recent posts where I changed my view on Infinity.

What?

* I attack T&B in my catch-up
* T&B shifts and attacks me
* T&B's scumread of me strangely omits my most recent posts where I'm more comfortable with Infinity

[Wraith]

Oh now we get the mention from my more recent posts

Have you considered that I could just be wrong about how I view the claim?

It's still too early to tell. I'm extremely skeptical of the claim but Infinity's activity so far suggests town to me.

[Wraith]

[Wraith]

VOTE: T&B

[Wraith]

He's really trying to undermine me and it's crap

[Wraith]

wtf happened did this gain 10 pages overnight?

[Wraith]

Rawr, I am here. I'll be catching up today.

VOTE: Pine

[Wraith]

It's okay your buddies outed themselves. It's fine. You're outed scum. I don't care about being lynched because my townie brethren would lynch you in return. It's really no big deal if I'm lynched. It isn't all about me. My words will reign long after my death.

Okay at first I was agreeing with Shepard but I really hate this reaction.

[Wraith]

drealmer why has your tone been so forced all game so far?

Because he's dreal

[Wraith]

well nancy just outed the masons well done

I swear to christ if you are going to start lying in this game I will be up your ass so fast it'll be wider than a four-lane highway

So I hope this is just a joke as I suspect

[Wraith]

Yeah the T&B/WC vs Shepard episode gave me quite a few doubts about my T&B scumread, at least for now.

Let's make the lurkers post.

[Wraith]

I for one always pay attention to my word choice no matter my alignment

[Wraith]

Let's wagon wraith

Nah

[Wraith]

What specifically changed between now and your last post that made you want to vote [postie] here?

I find it interesting you have no comment on my read switch on you.

Wraith...

It's funny how questions don't disappear

Oh yeah, forgot about that. The answer there was nothing in particular. I just felt like finally switching my vote at that point.

Infinity can take RC's place in the superhydra. I still want to hear from the lurkers, especially Pine and RC's replacement (speaking of which,

Pine needs a prod

), but then I want Wraith dead.
Too many of Wraith's contributions consist of him poking his head into the thread and complaining about something and then leaving, which I think is extremely scum-indicative.

-- Postie

That's because I am actively lurking.

[Wraith]

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Why do you have a problem with my lurking as opposed to that of Pine or TM?

I find it a more reliable scumtell for a lurker to promise a catch-up and then consistent have excuses not to deliver.

[Wraith]

I don't know. I really don't care, literally anything I do on D1 gets me killed eventually, so why bother?

[Wraith]

If you're straight-up saying you're not willing to participate in the game right now, then you need to replace out. Otherwise, do something that allows people to read you. For example, what are your reads? Like read over your own damn ISO. Do you see a single reason in there for town not to lynch you? Work with me. Give me a reason to townread you. Tell me who's scum.

-- Postie

I 100% guarantee that there is at least one scum between Pine and ThinkMomo. I also think Shepard is more likely to be scum than you at this point.

I'm not replacing out because my attitude is likely changeable as time goes on. I fucking hate D1 in closed setups and prefer to get through them as fast and cleanly as possible. The more flips there are the better I can start getting down to business more seriously.

[Wraith]

I 100% guarantee that there is at least one scum between Pine and ThinkMomo.

Okay. What's your reasoning?

-- Postie

Both are lurking hardcore and have contributed (or attempted to contribute) little or nothing to the game, and are making excuses for not even bothering to catch up. Pine literally has a two-post ISO and TM's is largely fluff.

TBH I'm increasingly convincing myself that TM is more likely scum than Pine, since Pine has lurked hardcore in every single game I've had with him so (however, two of those he was scum) but it's less easily excusable when there's two players who are lurking/fluffing hardcore on a single account.

So that said VOTE: ThinkMomo

[Wraith]

So you think lurking is alignment indicative? Haven't you been lurking too? Why's it scummy in ThinkMomo's case?

-- Postie

Yes.

Every single game I've played since returning from hiatus has featured scum who lurk hardcore. Every. Single. One.

It's up to you to differentiate between lurkers. But I offer that I'm being up front about it.

[Wraith]

What's to sell? TM has a 12-post ISO that consists of three things:

1. Fluff
2. Excuses for lurking
3. Scumreading AC for their unsolicited VT claim

That's not just lurking, that's lazy play. If your only scumread through almost 40 pages is solely from the easy target VT claim, you're not even trying to a deliberate extent.

[Wraith]

That's not just lurking, that's lazy play. If your only scumread through almost 40 pages is solely from the easy target VT claim, you're not even trying to a deliberate extent.

weren't you scum reading Infinity and giving him shit solely for his miller claim

Yeah, without context. Once I actually read, my opinion changed.

[Wraith]

Oh yeah, I totally forgot Shepard replaced Bork Bork...

Yeah that's not a good sign

[Wraith]

Oh yeah, I totally forgot Shepard replaced Bork Bork...

Yeah that's not a good sign

With Postie/Tea and Biscuits conf scum that makes you conf Town but please stop being derpy like cmon.

You're way too attached to a grammar slip that as WC pointed out could easily be innocuous.

[Wraith]

@Shepard (who is not the person everybody -including me- "know" they are): I often make some unsubstantiated assumptions, and one that I recently made is "if someone can type they can also read". Based on that assumption I believe you can reread my posts to find your answer. (Again, I'm assuming someone who could read once can read twice).

Commander, can you please just out yourself. KI really don't like feeling as if people are talking over my head. I promise not to hold it against you.

I feel like I'm the only one who doesn't know who he really is.

[Wraith]

I don't know. I really don't care, literally anything I do on D1 gets me killed eventually, so why bother?

This reads vaguely town.
Is an absolutely horrible read to have - if you have decided that whatever you do will kill you and you're not going to have an impact on the game as a whole, would recommend replacing out and taking a break from mafia until your batteries are recharged.

This was already intended to be my last game for some time.

[Wraith]

I feel a Miller in a Mini can be a role that heavily shifts balance compared to in a Large. Since mislynches in Minis are usually more significantly bad for the town, it can lead to an easy mislynch that can easily move right into a mislynch on the Cop who claimed the guilty result. Two mislynches in a row, with one being a critical power role, with three scum, would severely handicap the town's efforts and probably lose them the game. It's not nearly as big a balance problem in a Large because there's far more targets for the Cop to potentially investigate and each mislynch isn't potentially crippling.

I don't know, my view might be overly slanted because we recently finished Greatest Idea Mafia where the Town had irreversibly lost the game after two mislynches, but that is a setup with no inherent balance.

Even still, thinking about it more, two mislynches + two nightkills would automatically put Town in a LyLo situation, and that's if we do two mislynches right off the bat.

But honestly this is all rather pointless and counter-productive since we have no real idea what the setup balance is, and I don't particularly like early setup spec.

That said, I'm going to setup spec some more for a moment. If Infinity is telling the truth, it pretty much confirms there is a Cop in the game.

[Wraith]

For the record, that's another reason why I believe the miller claim. If by LyLo no cop has died, obviously the play should be for the cop to claim at that point, reveal targets and the sort.

IF THERE IS NO COP, you lynch Infinity.

Yeah good point. Infinity's claim in a way puts a time limit on his life.

[Wraith]

Infinity's claim has to be evaluated to see if you believe it on the merits or not.

Frankly why people are suspicious of me for being skeptical of a claim is pretty silly and probably a case of people completely misunderstanding how I express things.

I'm expressing skepticism of the claim, not that it's a confirmed fakeclaim. It means I'm going to keep Infinity under scrutiny until his claim is confirmed true or false.

[Wraith]

It's actually very out of character for dreal to be lurking this much.

[Wraith]

I've played several (I think three) games with him recently where he was all town. He was extremely active to the point of spam and frequently a target for mislynching as a result.

I actually don't think he ever had to be prodded in any of those games IIRC.

[Wraith]

Why does it feel like the game has stalled some? There's no "real" new content to comment on or engage in.

I strongly advocate killing all the lurkers who are not me.

[Wraith]

Alright, so Pine has floated down to my scum read list. I don't always read lurking as scum, but his post after his last prod (940) coupled with not doing anything since is bothering me.

Also misread my list earlier, T&B isn't actually a scum read. (This is what happens when I try to read 30 pages of a game and do notes at the same time).

Almost has bouts of towniness, but all in all I get a bad feeling about their posts. Their VT "gambit", or whatever it was, was terrible, and the defense of it had more holes that swiss cheese. The push on Think primarily because of one of the heads lurking as scum is terrible as well. Willing to vote here, but would rather go here...

Wraith admitting to be lurking, yet mainly wanting to lynch in the lurker pool is bad. He wouldn't answer when asked if he felt lurking was AI, and his disinterest in D1 is unhelpful to town at best. I feel like his lurker stance is a misdirection of "Hey, they're doing it, look at them, not at me!" His reaction to Infinty claiming miller also felt insincere, and while he doesn't seem to buy the claim he never pushes Infinity or tries to sort it.

VOTE: Wraith

Because someone trying to distract from their own lurking by pointing at others would definitely mention their own lurking in the exact same posts.

[Wraith]

Side note emp convo has me thinking maybe town.
Still not sure.

Wraith: any way you could maybe try to stop the pot shots when being called out and instead maybe talk about your scum reads and where they are coming from?

Ebwop: Nancy replaced out.
Also if you could show where chara really pushes infinity as scum that'd be wonderful.

NOPE

I'm pretty set on a TM/fitz-slot lynch at this point. And considering how momentum is moving and that we only have 3 days remaining, it's looking like the lynch today will either be me or TM/fitz-slot.

Also Almost is a pretty great candidate for scum. IMO they'll flip the opposite alignment TM/fitz-slot flips. Their recent posts are going after them hard and I'm not feeling a hardcore bus at this point would be wise while I'm an easy alternative target.

[Wraith]

@Almost:

If you're confused on what I was trying to say in my last post...

* You're scummy
* But TM/fitz-slot is scummier
* But your attitude toward TM/fitz-slot makes me think you're not the same alignment as him
* Because it's too early to hard-bus a buddy while I'm around as an easy target
* So we lynch TM/fitz-slot
* If he flips scum I'm comfortable with TRing you
* If he flips town we lynch you

[Wraith]

Gonna be honest, after the flurry of activity a couple days ago it really feels like the day is in the denouement stage and people on the fence are just trying to convince themselves which wagon to commit to as deadline approaches.

[Wraith]

Gonna be honest, after the flurry of activity a couple days ago it really feels like the day is in the denouement stage and people on the fence are just trying to convince themselves which wagon to commit to as deadline approaches.

Read and comment on the post I made on you, please.

I did. I thought it was a fair assessment.

Wraith, what's your read on prism?

Originally townread them fairly confidently but then the lurking...it's not so confident now.

[Wraith]

Me watching the number of pages I'll have to re-read N1 tick up and up while the gamestate doesn't really change:

[Wraith]

Why is scum!prism more likely to lurk?

I dunno

I just don't like:

1. Lurking in general
2. Making a big splash at entry and then disappearing for a very long time
3. Promising to catch up imminently and then not delivering

[Wraith]

Shouldn't have extended the deadline

[Wraith]

I fell asleep as soon as I got home from work and woke up to find people still delaying with literally 10 minutes to deadline.

[Wraith]

lol oops I'm totally fried today.

[Wraith]

AC can you flavor claim?

[Wraith]

AC can you flavor claim?

Why do you care? I thought you just wanted to lynch havingfitz.

Since havingfitz is claiming a weaker town PR as a non-monarch I want to see what a claimed VT will be.

[Wraith]

wtf guys 6 fucking pages?

I'm still at work ffs

[Wraith]

The VT claim was a gambit.

smh

[Wraith]

Well with no VT context to compare it I think fitz's claim is just bull. On board to finish this.

[Wraith]

wow wtf WC died?

Wtf

[Wraith]

Also I apologize again but I had a ridiculously busy week this week (6-day work week + job interview) so I couldn't get to my promised re-read. I will try to do so this weekend but if I can't I will be forced to replace out.

[Wraith]

Yeah it was pretty inexplicable why he claimed a non-monarch flavor

I guarantee the Threats to the Monarchy are characters like Cromwell or Fawkes

[Wraith]

Fuck I think I've buggered it all

Who hates me besides T&B? Fuck I need to do the re-read.

[Wraith]

Oh shit, Shepard hates me

Suddenly, plausible scenarios form in my head

[Wraith]

WTF happened why did the modkill happen?

[Wraith]

Infinity why am I not townreading you anymore

-- Postie

Because you're tunnelling me to such an extent that it's bleeding into your other reads.

Should be a signal this is a bad path to you.

[Wraith]

Going to try to buckle down and do the re-read this evening/tonight. My gut is scumreading AC pretty hard and I need to remember exactly why. I also need to review Prism because the points T&B is making intrigue me.

That said I'm currently taking a leap of faith and choosing to hard townread both T&B and Shepard.

[Wraith]

Oh son of a

How did I miss farside flipped Town Roleblocker?

Me right now:

[Wraith]

So Shepard is no longer "probable town" but that can change pending my re-read.

I'm trying to start now but this might take a

while

[Wraith]

Shepard is town.

My point is that I was townreading Shepard pretty much purely because I suspected there was a Town Roleblocker between either him or T&B.

Now that farside flipped Town Roleblocker that reasoning is moot.

[Wraith]

Interesting fact: If dreal, AC, and Prism are the scumteam, they spent the early game attacking each other.

[Wraith]

TBH I'd townread Infinity for much of his activity but his tunnel of me and his inexplicable desire for a D2 massclaim (why would you massclaim at this point BEFORE MyLo?) discourage me from doing so.

[Wraith]

Pine
Prism
ThinkMomo
PenguinPower
Börk Börk
Drealmerz7
Infinity 324
Almost Chara
Empking
Wraith
Tea and Biscuits
Nancy

As much fun as it is to vote Pine.
VOTE: nancy.
Realistically, this is where we should be.

Holy shit lol

Early game jitters for this head. Wow.

[Wraith]

Alright I was trying to play coy but at this point it's probably useless since I'm giving off "I AM A POWER ROLE" vibes with today's posts like an ambulance speeding down Main Street

I'm George VI, Bodyguard.

I protected Wood Cutters last night.

Combined with the above fact and that I've been extremely scummy to a deliberate extent the entire game, I concluded I was Roleblocked N1, and by town rather than scum.

So here we are now. My cards are on the table.

[Wraith]

VOTE: AC

[Wraith]

You're digging into introductory shitposts to try and discredit me.

[Wraith]

UNVOTE:

I'm being hasty. AC's post could actually be a sign he's paying detailed attention to every post, which is a towntell.

PREDIT:

Am I? Show me where I'm "trying to discredit you", please.

Oh, and while at it, you still haven't responded to the question after I had asked it TWICE. Maybe third time is lucky?

~A50

introductory shitposts

PREDIT2:

so if we believe you we must believe these things:

1.) mafia also has a roleblocking or redirecting type role
2.) you correctly chose their NK target
3.) they correctly chose you to stop you from BG

why do you think mafia chose to block or redirect you?

You are absolutely scum for this post

VOTE: drealmerz

[Wraith]

so if we believe you we must believe these things:

1.) mafia also has a roleblocking or redirecting type role
2.) you correctly chose their NK target
3.) they correctly chose you to stop you from BG

why do you think mafia chose to block or redirect you?

Let me clarify why drealmerz is 100% confirmed scum for this post.

1. I said that I suspected I was roleblocked, and that it was more likely that I was roleblocked by town than scum. In no way did I state that scum have roleblocking capacity.
2. Yes. TWC was obvtown.
3. I said town (farside) likely roleblocked me. This makes a lot of sense because farside played his cards close to his chest re: his read of me and likely RB'd me to assuage suspicions and/or confirm his read of me. It's an absolute failure of reading comprehension to conclude from my post that I claimed scum RB'd me. And in fact it betrays that it's not accidental misreading because you implied that I'm outright stating both town and scum have a roleblocking ability.

If I didn't directly state scum have roleblocking capability, but drealmerz nevertheless jumps to the conclusion that I stated both town and scum have roleblocking capability, I feel it demonstrates two things: drealmerz is scum, and scum have a roleblocker

[Wraith]

Dreal is scum people

CHOO CHOO ALL ABOARD

This is where my vote is parking today

[Wraith]

Your "mistake in logic" was a scumslip

[Wraith]

my brain is not fully on

was thinking it was TWC that was the RBer, not farside

If you were under the impression TWC was the RBer, why did you imply I claimed to be RB'd by scum?

TWC flipped town

"Brain fart" doesn't cut it here

Keep making that noose

[Wraith]

drealmerz nevertheless jumps to the conclusion that I stated both town and scum have roleblocking capability

Where did he say this?

Say? No. Implied? Fuck yes.

Alright I was trying to play coy but at this point it's probably useless since I'm giving off "I AM A POWER ROLE" vibes with today's posts like an ambulance speeding down Main Street

I'm George VI, Bodyguard.

I protected Wood Cutters last night.

Combined with the above fact and that I've been extremely scummy to a deliberate extent the entire game,

I concluded I was Roleblocked N1, and by town rather than scum.

So here we are now. My cards are on the table.

so if we believe you we must believe these things:

1.) mafia also has a roleblocking or redirecting type role

2.) you correctly chose their NK target

3.) they correctly chose you to stop you from BG

why do you think mafia chose to block or redirect you?

my brain is not fully on

was thinking it was TWC that was the RBer, not farside

Are you the third scum rather than AC, Infinity? Did I flip this shit around or something?

[Wraith]

Wow dreal you are flailing.

[Wraith]

Someone's going to need to explain that flavor claim to me. Arguably makes sense using WW2 but he appeared to have watched a lot of the British Empire slip away, and personal backstory seems more indicative of a backup role.

Funny how you have a problem with my flavorclaim but not Infinity's

Prism what do you think of my townread on you?

I think it's premature as you've never played with me before but I get why you have it. I like the fact you're prodding more outside of the observation realm.

I also like the miller claim. Looking at the flavor the claim doesn't exactly fit, but given the style of play you've demonstrated I find it a very unlikely fakeclaim.

[Wraith]

Wraith if you can quote the early game attacking between me/drealm that'd be nice, I remember drealm buddying me more than anything but I believe I still defended him early on.

AC attacked dreal. dreal attacked AC. You attacked AC.

I didn't say you attacked dreal, I said this trio of players attacked each other. Should I have included the "mostly" in there? Maybe. But it doesn't really change the point I was trying to make.

But this is moot because I'm now less inclined to believe AC is scum for the moment. You and dreal are still scum.

[Wraith]

wraith, if I were scum WTF would I talk about scum having a RB/redirector?

Because you are scum with insider knowledge of the setup.

Also I should bring up that I never mention the possibility of redirection. You did.

[Wraith]

Dreal might be scum but that was probably not a scumslip

You can believe that it wasn't a scumslip but it still stands that he so distorted my post that it could only have been willful misrepresentation.

[Wraith]

that doesn't say why I'd be outward with such knowledge, wraith - that'd be frikken dumb if I were scum to bring up their existence if it were true

yes I brought up redirection because in my initial ill-logic it would also account for the scenario (not just RB) - but that is totally dropable now, I made a mistake, why are you having so much trouble seeing that?

Are you kidding? You are trying to discredit my claim and get me mislynched.

This isn't rocket science.

[Wraith]

Like there's a difference between AC's approach which was to look at my ACTUAL post history and use that as evidence exhibits (however misguided that might be) and your approach which is to take my post and claim I said something COMPLETELY DIFFERENT as evidence exhibits

[Wraith]

uhh, no, in no way shape or form am I doing that, wraith - try again

This isn't even worth a proper response. Simply looking for an appropriate reaction gif is a waste of time.

[Wraith]

you haven't answered any of my pertinent questions, wraith

infinity, so I might be scum because PoE? that is it? weaksauce! looks like you're just trying to setup some legitimacy for voting me if my wagon gets going without actually having reasons I cuold be scum

PoE??????!!! AT THIS POINT IN THE GAME?!?!?!

can lynch infinity in a heartbeat today, still prefer AC

Oh I did, you're just ignoring they ever happened.

[Wraith]

Can Empking, T&B, and Shepard please get back in here so we can lynch this scum? This is so transparent at this point.

[Wraith]

wraith, if you're town, please address my points, otherwise keep doing what you're doing

I did. You ignored they ever happened.

[Wraith]

It's funny that you were fine and dandy lurking through D1 while the focus was on everyone else but you and only now are you spamming frantically once the spotlight is on you.

[Wraith]

wraith, if you're town, please address my points, otherwise keep doing what you're doing

I did. You ignored they ever happened.

uhhhm, but you didn't and anyone that reads the thread can see that you didn't, soooooooooo, what the hell is going on!??!!

BTW

Wraith: I was roleblocked N1, likely by town

dreal: WHY DO YOU THINK SCUM ROLEBLOCKED YOU AND HOW DO YOU KNOW SCUM HAVE A ROLEBLOCKER?!

Wraith: I didn't say that. You are blatantly misrepping me and possibly showing insider knowledge

dreal: IF I WAS SCUM WHAT REASON WOULD I HAVE TO REVEAL INSIDER KNOWLEDGE

Wraith: Because you slipped

dreal: SHOW WHERE I SLIPPED

Wraith: Done with this shit

dreal: YOU'RE AVOIDING THE QUESTION

[Wraith]

It's funny that you were fine and dandy lurking through D1 while the focus was on everyone else but you and only now are you spamming frantically once the spotlight is on you.

I'm not spamming frantically? holyshit open your eyes

Yeah. You didn't post this frantically since the RVS stage

[Wraith]

not at all what happened, you can't just try to re-write history of the thread WHEN IT IS RIGHT THERE FOR EVERYONE TO READ THEMSELVES

holyshit, wraith

Speak for yourself

[Wraith]

my brain is not fully on

was thinking it was TWC that was the RBer, not farside

If you were under the impression TWC was the RBer, why did you imply I claimed to be RB'd by scum?

TWC flipped town

"Brain fart" doesn't cut it here

Keep making that noose

because if TWC was the RB and were killed their RB would not go through

@wraith

[Wraith]

If I have to spell this the fuck out you all need to go back to Newbie Games.

[Wraith]

jesus christ

Alright I was trying to play coy but at this point it's probably useless since I'm giving off "I AM A POWER ROLE" vibes with today's posts like an ambulance speeding down Main Street

I'm George VI, Bodyguard.

I protected Wood Cutters last night.

Combined with the above fact and that I've been extremely scummy to a deliberate extent the entire game,

I concluded I was Roleblocked N1, and by town rather than scum.

So here we are now. My cards are on the table.

so if we believe you we must believe these things:

1.) mafia also has a roleblocking or redirecting type role

2.) you correctly chose their NK target

3.) they correctly chose you to stop you from BG

why do you think mafia chose to block or redirect you?

my brain is not fully on

was thinking it was TWC that was the RBer, not farside

because if TWC was the RB and were killed their RB would not go through

1. Copy
2. Hide
3. Bus

4. Block

5. Redirect

6. Protect

7. Miscellaneous

8. Kill

9. Recruit
10. Inspect

Also in what fucking game have you played where nightkills block night actions by the victim?

dreal is lying. He is making so many blatant "mistakes" regarding what I'm saying and how the game works that it's not explicable by mere incompetence. He's malicious.

[Wraith]

Those games are not on this site. I guarantee that.

[Wraith]

You are making excuses for blatant misplay.

This is ridiculous. Can the Town Brigade that isn't milquetoast like Infinity please get the fuck in here?

[Wraith]

No you wouldn't.

I'll point out to observers to this exchange that dreal's motivation in this is entirely

to discredit my claim

1. I claim Bodyguard and protect on the scum target. He misreps my claim by saying I claimed the exact opposite of what I actually said.
2. When I call him out on it, he claims he made a mistake and that he thought TWC (WHO DID NOT FLIP SCUM) was the actual Roleblocker.
3. When I call him out on that, he claims he believed that TWC being nightkilled precluded the possibility that TWC could Roleblock me N1 (REMINDER THAT TWC WAS NOT A FUCKING ROLEBLOCKER)
4. When I call him out on that, he hides behind vague meta and accusations of ME of ignoring HIS questions.

[Wraith]

You are so done and once actual obvious town like Empking, T&B, and Shepard get in here you are getting lynched.

[Wraith]

If dreal thought TWC was roleblocker and didn't assume NAR, I can see why he would say what he said

PEdit: so you're satisfied with that? and still voting me?

Oh let's just make excuses for BLATANT MISREPS at every turn.

Explain how he fucks this up, after fucking up what I've already pointed out.

Oh son of a

How did I miss farside flipped Town Roleblocker?

Me right now:

Alright I was trying to play coy but at this point it's probably useless since I'm giving off "I AM A POWER ROLE" vibes with today's posts like an ambulance speeding down Main Street

I'm George VI, Bodyguard.

I protected Wood Cutters last night.

Combined with the above fact and that I've been extremely scummy to a deliberate extent the entire game,

I concluded I was Roleblocked N1, and by town rather than scum.

So here we are now. My cards are on the table.

so if we believe you we must believe these things:

1.) mafia also has a roleblocking or redirecting type role

2.) you correctly chose their NK target

3.) they correctly chose you to stop you from BG

why do you think mafia chose to block or redirect you?

infinity: my first point, which is obviously wrong because farside could have blocked wraith,

my brain was thinking our flip today was a RB in TWC, forgetting momentarily about farside modkill

because if TWC was the RB and were killed their RB would not go through

The Wood Cutters, King James I,

VT

, was killed N1

Yeah we should just keep giving dreal a pass for stupidity rather than blatant misrepresentation very obviously motivated by attempts to discredit my claim.

[Wraith]

IF DREALMERZ THOUGHT TWC WAS THE ROLEBLOCKER FROM THE START WHY DID HE ACCUSE ME OF INSIDER KNOWLEDGE THAT SCUM ROLEBLOCKED ME?!

USE YOUR FUCKING BRAIN

[Wraith]

Now you're attacking Infinity.

You are such fucking scum.

[Wraith]

IF DREALMERZ THOUGHT TWC WAS THE ROLEBLOCKER FROM THE START WHY DID HE ACCUSE ME OF INSIDER KNOWLEDGE THAT SCUM ROLEBLOCKED ME?!

I didn't though - where are you getting this other than pulling it out of your ass?

DID YOU FUCKING MISS THIS

If dreal thought TWC was roleblocker and didn't assume NAR, I can see why he would say what he said

PEdit: so you're satisfied with that? and still voting me?

Oh let's just make excuses for BLATANT MISREPS at every turn.

Explain how he fucks this up, after fucking up what I've already pointed out.

Oh son of a

How did I miss farside flipped Town Roleblocker?

Me right now:

Alright I was trying to play coy but at this point it's probably useless since I'm giving off "I AM A POWER ROLE" vibes with today's posts like an ambulance speeding down Main Street

I'm George VI, Bodyguard.

I protected Wood Cutters last night.

Combined with the above fact and that I've been extremely scummy to a deliberate extent the entire game,

I concluded I was Roleblocked N1, and by town rather than scum.

So here we are now. My cards are on the table.

so if we believe you we must believe these things:

1.) mafia also has a roleblocking or redirecting type role

2.) you correctly chose their NK target

3.) they correctly chose you to stop you from BG

why do you think mafia chose to block or redirect you?

infinity: my first point, which is obviously wrong because farside could have blocked wraith,

my brain was thinking our flip today was a RB in TWC, forgetting momentarily about farside modkill

because if TWC was the RB and were killed their RB would not go through

The Wood Cutters, King James I,

VT

, was killed N1

Yeah we should just keep giving dreal a pass for stupidity rather than blatant misrepresentation very obviously motivated by attempts to discredit my claim.

[Wraith]

IS DREALMERZ MAKING ACCUSATIONS WITHOUT READING MY POSTS?

OR IS HE BLATANTLY MISREPPING MY POSTS?

YOU FUCKING DECIDE

[Wraith]

but it was stupidity

sorry I'm so fucking stupid

that doesn't make me scum, ya know?

One's an anomaly, two's a trend. Rule 89, boss.

[Wraith]

You are being so obtuse about this I can't help but feel you are scum resisting a bus on your buddy.

IF DREALMERZ THOUGHT TWC WAS THE ROLEBLOCKER FROM THE START WHY DID HE ACCUSE ME OF INSIDER KNOWLEDGE THAT SCUM ROLEBLOCKED ME?!

USE YOUR FUCKING BRAIN

Because he thought you were saying scum had their own roleblocker

HOW THE FUCK DO YOU GET

Scum have a Roleblocker and they blocked me N1

Combined with the above fact and that I've been extremely scummy to a deliberate extent the entire game, I concluded I was Roleblocked N1, and by town rather than scum.

Let's say drealmerz is dumb and not reading and assumed I am fakeclaiming scum who is saying a scum Roleblocker exists because I know it exists.

WHY THEN, DOES HE SAY THAT HE THOUGHT TWC FLIPPED ROLEBLOCKER AND THAT THE NIGHT ACTION RESOLUTION WOULD HAVE PREVENTED HIS ROLEBLOCK FROM AFFECTING MY CLAIMED PROTECT?

TWC FLIPPED TOWN AND NOT ROLEBLOCKER, AND ON MAFIASCUM.NET NIGHTKILLS ALMOST NEVER PREVENT NIGHT ACTIONS THAT RESOLVE BEFORE NIGHTKILLS.

IF I AM SCUM LYING ABOUT MY CLAIM AND BEING ROLEBLOCKED, WHAT DOES NIGHT ACTION RESOLUTION STOPPING A ROLEBLOCK FROM A PLAYER WHO WAS NEVER A ROLEBLOCKER HAVE TO DO WITH ANYTHING?!

[Wraith]

Oh, and here's answer, since I apparently have spell out absolutely fucking everything:

DREALMERZ IS TRYING TO COVER FOR HIS SLIP WITH ANOTHER SLIP

[Wraith]

Literally ignoring all posts by drealmerz at this point because reading them kills brain cells

[Wraith]

I AM SCUM LYING ABOUT MY CLAIM AND BEING ROLEBLOCKED, WHAT DOES NIGHT ACTION RESOLUTION STOPPING A ROLEBLOCK FROM A PLAYER WHO WAS NEVER A ROLEBLOCKER HAVE TO DO WITH ANYTHING?!

Because dreal thought there TWC died before he could use his roleblock, and therefore there had to be a scum roleblocker to block you. He didn't assume NAR was being used.

Dreal, ignore wraith for a second and read at least the ISO of the person you are voting.

WHY SHOULD HE ASSUME THIS GAME ISN'T NAR?

IS THIS A BASTARD GAME? FUCK NO.

HE "ASSUMED IT WASN'T NAR" PURELY BECAUSE ASSUMING IT WASN'T WOULD DO MORE TO DISCREDIT MY CLAIM

[Wraith]

JFC town wants to mislynches and die

[Wraith]

T&B weighing in on this fucking garbage would be nice.

[Wraith]

So this is turning into a countdown to mislynch for me

[Wraith]

I feel drealmerz is caught scum and my vote is not moving.

[Wraith]

FYI for everyone this is how I currently see things:

Likely Town

T&B
Shepard
Empking

Murky

Infinity

Definite Scum

drealmerz

Remaining Pool

Cloudkicker-slot
Shaddowez
AC
Prism

Infinity is murky because I earlier townread him but his D2 activity has made me doubt, nevertheless I'm not willing to rope him before anyone else in the pool at this point.

Unfortunately CK-slot and Shaddow are likely not going to be nightkilled if they actually are town so either they need to stop lurking to prove themeselves or we'll need to sort through them the hard way in future days.

If you two are town y'all need to stop lurking and start posting because lurking at this point is anti-town. We need to narrow shit down.

[Wraith]

Oh thank god, it's Titus. Maybe shit will get moving now.

>replaced into CK-slot

fuck

[Wraith]

titus, heads-up

AC claimed VT early game, then retracted it!

AC very likely scum, with infinity and T&B

if infinity is town then maybe commander is scum, but, mehhh, that's waffles right now

Jesus Christ I forgot how scummy those reads were

[Wraith]

@Ari: I am not voting myself, but instead T&B

Reading the last 10 pages just makes me more and more exasperated and I think it's just time to start a fresh approach rather than relying on people coming to correct conclusions from past input independently.

Can someone walk me through exactly why they townread T&B, for starters?

My read on them changed to a townread largely because they're making active efforts to solve the game.

[Wraith]

I'm too exhausted to get mad I think

and wraith is tunneling me because I made a stupid mistake (that I'd never make as scum, btw) and can't let go or even see that it is possible that I'm so out of it that it's a reasonable mistake, it's really annoying

my guess would be that the scum in my SRs aren't voting me because they feel like they can just ML me any Day and are more concerned with sticking to their agenda, and will come around if other votes start to come around, plus omgus tends to scare off scum I think, but it's all guesswork

What mistake?

Sequence of events:

1. From the start of D2 I was dropping not-subtle hints I was a power role. N1 I protected WoodCutters but they ended up dead anyways, so I suspected I was roleblocked. Because my D1 strategy was to lurk tactically while presenting myself as scummy lynchbait to avoid getting nightkilled immediately, I suspected it was more likely I was roleblocked by town rather than scum.

2. Farside got modkilled and flipped Town Roleblocker. Farside had a "null" read on me D1 and played his cards re: me close to his chest throughout that day, so it is extremely likely that he roleblocked me N1.

3. People start to really pick up on my not-subtle hints and get suspicious. I stop playing coy and claim Town Bodyguard, and also drop my speculation on what happened that got WoodCutters killed.

4. drealmerz makes Post #1958, implying that I am fakeclaiming scum presumably because of insider knowledge and an apparently stupendously unlikely story. He tries to portray me as claiming to have been sniffed out as a BG by scum and drawn a scum roleblock when that was entirely the opposite of what I actually claimed. This is such an utter failure of reading comprehension that I can't help but interpret this as malicious intent rather than incompetence, but several other players disagree.

5. drealmerz changes his story and claims that he thought WoodCutters flipped the Roleblocker. This completely contradicts his earlier implication that I claimed to have been RB'd by scum, as WoodCutters flipped neither Roleblocker nor scum.

6. drealmerz then scrambles to justify his slip again by claiming a misunderstanding of action resolution order. A two-second glimpse at the NAR would be sufficient to prevent such a misunderstanding.

7. Caught out with multiple slips, drealmerz resorts to denying those slips ever happened and pleading ignorance. This excuse only works if you believe he is ignorant of multiple game rules and clearly-worded statements.

But no people are being fucking dumb and giving him a pass based on his "honest mistake" defense.

[Wraith]

I'm too exhausted to get mad I think

and wraith is tunneling me because I made a stupid mistake (that I'd never make as scum, btw) and can't let go or even see that it is possible that I'm so out of it that it's a reasonable mistake, it's really annoying

my guess would be that the scum in my SRs aren't voting me because they feel like they can just ML me any Day and are more concerned with sticking to their agenda, and will come around if other votes start to come around, plus omgus tends to scare off scum I think, but it's all guesswork

What mistake?

Sequence of events:

1. From the start of D2 I was dropping not-subtle hints I was a power role. N1 I protected WoodCutters but they ended up dead anyways, so I suspected I was roleblocked. Because my D1 strategy was to lurk tactically while presenting myself as scummy lynchbait to avoid getting nightkilled immediately, I suspected it was more likely I was roleblocked by town rather than scum.

2. Farside got modkilled and flipped Town Roleblocker. Farside had a "null" read on me D1 and played his cards re: me close to his chest throughout that day, so it is extremely likely that he roleblocked me N1.

3. People start to really pick up on my not-subtle hints and get suspicious. I stop playing coy and claim Town Bodyguard, and also drop my speculation on what happened that got WoodCutters killed.

4. drealmerz makes Post #1958, implying that I am fakeclaiming scum presumably because of insider knowledge and an apparently stupendously unlikely story. He tries to portray me as claiming to have been sniffed out as a BG by scum and drawn a scum roleblock when that was entirely the opposite of what I actually claimed. This is such an utter failure of reading comprehension that I can't help but interpret this as malicious intent rather than incompetence, but several other players disagree.

5. drealmerz changes his story and claims that he thought WoodCutters flipped the Roleblocker. This completely contradicts his earlier implication that I claimed to have been RB'd by scum, as WoodCutters flipped neither Roleblocker nor scum.

6. drealmerz then scrambles to justify his slip again by claiming a misunderstanding of action resolution order. A two-second glimpse at the NAR would be sufficient to prevent such a misunderstanding.

7. Caught out with multiple slips, drealmerz resorts to denying those slips ever happened and pleading ignorance. This excuse only works if you believe he is ignorant of multiple game rules and clearly-worded statements.

But no people are being fucking dumb and giving him a pass based on his "honest mistake" defense.

Would it impact your opinion to know that Drealmerz once misvoted in lylo despite having two votes on him and having the scum team told to him?
Or that he tunnelled the sole VT in a role madness when said VT had wanted a scum lynch?

Yeah, I'm more surprised by Drealmerz admitting he fucked up prior to the postgame more than anything.

I was trying to avoid blatantly inflammatory statements like "I know drealmerz is completely incompetent in general" but you're putting me in a corner here.

[Wraith]

Wraith

- Why do you think you were RBed instead of any of the other possible situations that could have led to the same result? Also, do you think Farside would have targetted you?

omfg I explained my reasoning in detail twice now.

Third time's the charm.

My D1 strategy was to lurk tactically and present myself as scummy lynchbait in order to avoid being pegged as a strong town voice and make it viable for scum to keep me alive as a future mislynch. It would prevent me from getting nightkilled and allow me to examine the other players for the ideal protect target. This element of it was completely successful - I avoided the nightkill and picked the correct protect target.

Unfortunately it backfired because I was probably

too

scummy - I managed to avoid getting mislynched D1 by being so blatantly inflammatory with my comments that town probably believed I was too bold to be scum, but it probably drew a roleblock from town. This was the "hidden" meaning behind this post:

Fuck I think I've buggered it all

Who hates me besides T&B? Fuck I need to do the re-read.

I suspected the Town Roleblocker was either T&B or Shepard.

Then farside got modkilled and flipped Town Roleblocker.

A brief review of his ISO demonstrated how muddled his read of me was. That, combined with his general avoidance of giving a truly detailed read of me, led me to conclude farside very likely roleblocked me N1.

[Wraith]

This is all pretty in line with town drealm. I don't want to offend him, but I get why you would describe it as heavily incompetent, and he can definitely speak without thinking through what he's saying or sorting it out in his own mind first.

As far as the T&B townreads go, we've got one person giving T&B a townread for playing, and one person giving a meta read that I can probably disprove if I check, so that's the next step here.

There's a limit to the amount of mistakes I'm willing to forgive.

You saw my attitude toward dreal early in the game. He was extremely jittery and gave off emotion that came off to many as fake. I know this as typical drealmerz play.

But to so badly "misread" my comments, and then to change his story several times with equal lack of comprehension, breaks my limit. As I've been saying, I can't help but interpret it as malicious rather than innocent incompetence.

[Wraith]

I really shouldn't have been so heavy-handed in dropping my hints today. I am almost certainly going to get killed tonight.

[Wraith]

The problem is, I don't think I've ever seen a scum drealmerz ever, but whatever his alignment, I feel relatively confident his reads are inaccurate because he's not neck deep in calls to policy lynch him.

Scratch this. I forgot In Memory. I kinda dismissed him because of the fact he was rambling with wierd shit even though my hydra partner wanted to lynch him.

So you're saying drealmerz scum play is indistinguishable from drealmerz town play?

[Wraith]

*gnaw

[Wraith]

I was scumreading AC for rolefishing too but it could just be attention to detail. That they literally went back to my first post to approach my claim with skepticism really made me balk.

[Wraith]

oh titus, you also need to go read the shit that went down with wraith and I, the summarization does not do the real-time unfolding of it justice in the slightest - like it gives you no idea to get a summary of my mistake+the aftermath, you've got to see it to get any sense of it

What pages?

I claimed at the top of page 79. Just follow along from there.

[Wraith]

so if we believe you we must believe these things:

1.) mafia also has a roleblocking or redirecting type role
2.) you correctly chose their NK target
3.) they correctly chose you to stop you from BG

why do you think mafia chose to block or redirect you?

This seems a ridiculous response to a bg claim. Was farside modkilled at this point?

There's a hydra with nacho/mastina/gin in the game. I'd be shocked if it didn't die n1 and probably knock it down a few pegs just for that. Fooling one or two of them, ok maybe. All 3? No.

Yes, farside was modkilled at this point.

[Wraith]

so if we believe you we must believe these things:

1.) mafia also has a roleblocking or redirecting type role
2.) you correctly chose their NK target
3.) they correctly chose you to stop you from BG

why do you think mafia chose to block or redirect you?

This seems a ridiculous response to a bg claim. Was farside modkilled at this point?

There's a hydra with nacho/mastina/gin in the game. I'd be shocked if it didn't die n1 and probably knock it down a few pegs just for that. Fooling one or two of them, ok maybe. All 3? No.

Yes, farside was modkilled at this point.

So why the fuck would a mafia roleblocker be needed in order to believe you are town when you're suggesting farside blocked you?

Unless I'm misreading you badly here, that was literally my point at the time.

[Wraith]

dreal

, talk to me about your T&B read. I need to reread them, though I don't remember finding anything particularly scummy about their play last time I went through their ISO.

dreal

, I don't think you ever did this.

Titus

- what are your thoughts on Infinity? If you didn't read the thread or ISO him at all, he claimed miller in his first post.

@Shadowez: You do realize a BG claim could be a cover for the real killer in case there was a Tracker on them or a Watcher on their target, yes? I'm not saying this must be the case, but I wouldn't put too much faith on that claim either. Just saying.

Oh definitely. I also think the "I was acting scummy so I figured I got roleblocked by town" seems to be a bit too specific of a narrative for me. The fact that farside flipped RB at the start of D1 means there's no town RB to verify whether or not that happened, which is super convenient. Normally I wouldn't risk a lynch on a claimed PR, but this doesn't work for me.

VOTE: Wraith

Hahaha, this must be a joke

[Wraith]

Why are we unvoting before his Mason partner claims?

This smells like dreal claiming Mason to cover for a scum bus that was already on the wagon.

[Wraith]

I think a Mason fakeclaim by dreal was intended to open a lot of possibilities for his buddies:

1. dreal claims Mason, vouched for by his scumbuddy. I don't think this was going to happen since it means that fake Mason buddy is dead meat as soon as dreal flips scum

2. dreal claims Mason, no vouch by a scumbuddy and the scumbuddy joins the wagon. This is risky because it allows the town to wagon PoE his potential partner that he was hoping would vouch for him via PoE.

3. dreal claims Mason, no vouch by a scumbuddy because the scumbuddy was already bussing him. This is pretty cunning because the town might be seduced into determining the scumbuddy via wagon PoE as per #2, which can potentially give a false clear on players who were on the dreal wagon before the claim.

PREDIT:

Yes, it makes sense in flavor terms. But did people not already warn me that scum could easily have prepared flavor fakeclaims?

It also means fucking nothing until the partner actually vouches for him, and that you're taking it at face value without someone backing it up is fucking suspicious.

[Wraith]

I think a Mason fakeclaim by dreal was intended to open a lot of possibilities for his buddies:

1. dreal claims Mason, vouched for by his scumbuddy. I don't think this was going to happen since it means that fake Mason buddy is dead meat as soon as dreal flips scum

2. dreal claims Mason, no vouch by a scumbuddy and the scumbuddy joins the wagon. This is risky because it allows the town to wagon PoE his potential partner that he was hoping would vouch for him via PoE.

3. dreal claims Mason, no vouch by a scumbuddy because the scumbuddy was already bussing him. This is pretty cunning because the town might be seduced into determining the scumbuddy via wagon PoE as per #2, which can potentially give a false clear on players who were on the dreal wagon before the claim.

PREDIT:

Yes, it makes sense in flavor terms. But did people not already warn me that scum could easily have prepared flavor fakeclaims?

It also means fucking nothing until the partner actually vouches for him, and that you're taking it at face value without someone backing it up is fucking suspicious.

Also I feel the need to say that I brought up these concerns because I literally started doing #2, trying to find his possible Mason partner via wagon PoE, assuming the partner would not already be voting for dreal since he "knows dreal is town". Then it struck me that it could easily just be Shepard or AC and thus a lack of vouch for dreal could be used as cover for a bussing attempt. Especially since those two immediately tried to jump off the wagon without the partner confirming dreal's claim.

[Wraith]

So did Infinity. #NotAMason2017

Yeah but Infinity has already claimed so changing his story at this point would invite a policy lynch.

I actually think it's most likely to be AC, though, I just brought you up too since it's a possibility.

[Wraith]

Like as far as I'm concerned the short list for his partner is down to these people:

Tea and Biscuits
Almost Chara
Empking
Shaddowez
Prism

It's probably not Titus because he pushed for the claim. It's not me because I say so and I've already claimed. It's probably not Infinity because he's already claimed Miller. It's probably not Shepard because he's claimed it's not him, but he could just be lying, though I think he's town and being truthful.

[Wraith]

I think a Mason fakeclaim by dreal was intended to open a lot of possibilities for his buddies:

1. dreal claims Mason, vouched for by his scumbuddy. I don't think this was going to happen since it means that fake Mason buddy is dead meat as soon as dreal flips scum

2. dreal claims Mason, no vouch by a scumbuddy and the scumbuddy joins the wagon. This is risky because it allows the town to wagon PoE his potential partner that he was hoping would vouch for him via PoE.

3. dreal claims Mason, no vouch by a scumbuddy because the scumbuddy was already bussing him. This is pretty cunning because the town might be seduced into determining the scumbuddy via wagon PoE as per #2, which can potentially give a false clear on players who were on the dreal wagon before the claim.

PREDIT:

Yes, it makes sense in flavor terms. But did people not already warn me that scum could easily have prepared flavor fakeclaims?

It also means fucking nothing until the partner actually vouches for him, and that you're taking it at face value without someone backing it up is fucking suspicious.

In #2 and #3, can't we just lynch dreal when we're in mylo/lylo and there's no other mason claim?

I want to do that

now

But I want to know who the Mason partner is. If I think it's a credible claim it might convince me to give drealmerz a reprieve today.

[Wraith]

Let's not narrow down the likely partner and make things easier for scum.

Scum are already going to be aware that those four are unlikely to be a Mason partner. And if one of those four is the Mason partner then they are likely scum anyways because there's no reason to keep that hidden as town when town has apparently "cleared" you.

[Wraith]

Let's not narrow down the likely partner and make things easier for scum.

it could be scum doing the narrowing down trying to figure it out...

When you make fucking posts like this, this is why people scumread and mislynch you when you're town.

Like if you're town here WTF are you making posts like this for?

[Wraith]

The procedure is NEVER for the other mason to claim wtf.

AFAIK this is when the claim is unprompted.

We pressured drealmerz into making the claim. We should not give him a pass without confirmation, that would defeat the purpose of forcing a claim under pressure IMO.

PREDIT:

THEY ALREADY HAVE A BETTER TARGET IN ME TONIGHT

WHY WOULD THEY SHOOT THE CLAIMED MASON OVER THE CLAIMED BODYGUARD?!

[Wraith]

wraith, because it is a possibility

that is pro-town to share the thoughts

You miss the point.

You've claimed to continuously waffle on your read of me, yet whenever you get a chance you try to undermine my credibility.

How do you think I would fucking react to that?

[Wraith]

You both have good points.

I think we can actually plan something out here.

Give me a moment.

[Wraith]

Yes exactly what Titus said.

[Wraith]

I won't balk from lynching drealmerz today unless the Mason partner vouches for him. If he doesn't claim, I want drealmerz dead.

This can actually work in our favor somewhat. If drealmerz dies and does in fact flip Mason, his partner is confirmed town. We massclaim tomorrow (which would be MyLo) and PoE the scum then.

OR

Mason partner claims, we lynch Prism, I protect the Mason partner tonight.

We massclaim tomorrow no matter what IMO.

[Wraith]

Mason partner claims, we lynch Prism, I protect the Mason partner tonight.

You need an eventuality if Prism claims the partner.

Oh, shit, yeah.

Um...

I was only considering lynching dreal or Prism today. But if both are right out as possibilities I think I could lynch AC.

[Wraith]

Mason partner claims, we lynch Prism, I protect the Mason partner tonight.

You need an eventuality if Prism claims the partner.

Oh, shit, yeah.

Um...

I was only considering lynching dreal or Prism today. But if both are right out as possibilities I think I could lynch AC.

I am in.

FYI considering Shepard's vehement opposition to any of these a town flip by any of these players will practically confirm you as scum to me.

And vice versa if they flip scum.

PREDIT:

You are being ridiculous. Researching the flavor means nothing. The moment you claimed I myself muttered "William & Mary as Masons makes a lot of sense flavor-wise". Awareness of this is NAI.

[Wraith]

FYI considering Shepard's vehement opposition to any of these a town flip by any of these players will practically confirm you as scum to me.

And vice versa if they flip scum.

Not quite sure about what this means.

Right now I feel I have a decent grasp on my reads. But if any of my current scumreads (drealmerz, Prism, AC) flip town, it would force me to drastically re-evaluate my perception of the game-state.

Meaning I would probably start scumreading T&B again as well as you.

While you have been saying a lot of sensible things I've been suckered in by that before. I'm pretty wary of you buddying me right now, as Shepard is arguably my strongest townread at the moment and he is pretty hostile toward you.

[Wraith]

FYI considering Shepard's vehement opposition to any of these a town flip by any of these players will practically confirm you as scum to me.

And vice versa if they flip scum.

Not quite sure about what this means.

Right now I feel I have a decent grasp on my reads. But if any of my current scumreads (drealmerz, Prism, AC) flip town, it would force me to drastically re-evaluate my perception of the game-state.

Meaning I would probably start scumreading T&B again as well as you.

While you have been saying a lot of sensible things I've been suckered in by that before. I'm pretty wary of you buddying me right now, as Shepard is arguably my strongest townread at the moment and he is pretty hostile toward you.

Or we can just skip a step lynch Titus and then lynch you after Titus flips scum as then it probably means you wanted an excuse to hunt for Town RB/jk

???

Town RB flipped completely independently of me trying to figure out who they were.

And I was trying to figure out who the Town RB was in order to confirm them as town to me. I wouldn't have outed their role, only that I considered them confirmed. And since before my own claim I was seen as a shady motherfucker who would have taken my reads seriously anyways?

[Wraith]

Not quite sure about what this means.

possibly means "get ready to be bused, buddy"

Yup

oh shit you're right

It can totally be perceived that way. That's my bad.

[Wraith]

@Wraith so you admit you were hunting the town roleblocker.

Lock him up and throw away the key.

Didn't I fucking say that when I claimed?

[Wraith]

I think I'm most infuriated now than ever before that I got fucking Roleblocked by town. TWC was the obvtown townie to ever town and their insights would be such a stabilizing force right now.

I can't believe you idiots have 180'd so drastically based solely off an unverified Mason claim

[Wraith]

That y'all think I would interact with Titus this much and this blatantly if we were scumbuddies together...wow.

[Wraith]

Like use your fucking brains.

If I am scum and got away with killing TWC, why would I come out and claim to have visited him the night he died? Why would I even be

dropping hints

that I did so? My claim was unprompted, I only did so because AC picked up on those hints and started pressing me about them. Why would I drop those hints if I'm scum and killed TWC? Why would I claim to have visited TWC and then been roleblocked if I'm actually scum and successfully nightkill them?

Use your fucking brains.

[Wraith]

I think I'm most infuriated now than ever before that I got fucking Roleblocked by town. TWC was the obvtown townie to ever town and their insights would be such a stabilizing force right now.

I can't believe you idiots have 180'd so drastically based solely off an unverified Mason claim

Well yeah, they'd say to go through this process. That's why any competent scumteam kills them.

Competent scumteam leaves BG claim alone.
Doesn't even block it.

Because for the sheer reason if BG isn't dead policy in LYLO.

Oh wow.

I think I've literally condemned the town to lose by claiming. You guys are so convinced I am scum or can possibly be scum that you will lynch me and lose no matter what.

Thanks for telegraphing a winning strategy to scum!

[Wraith]

Like use your fucking brains.

If I am scum and got away with killing TWC, why would I come out and claim to have visited him the night he died? Why would I even be

dropping hints

that I did so? My claim was unprompted, I only did so because AC picked up on those hints and started pressing me about them. Why would I drop those hints if I'm scum and killed TWC? Why would I claim to have visited TWC and then been roleblocked if I'm actually scum and successfully nightkill them?

Use your fucking brains.

Because Watcher/tracker combos exist.

Are you trying to imply that I made an unprompted BG fakeclaim to draw out a Watcher/Tracker counterclaim?

Are you fucking high?

[Wraith]

TWC was the obvtown townie to ever town and their insights would be such a stabilizing force right now.

I'm not a magician, but I'd bet you good money TWC would be voting titus right now if they were alive.

If TWC was voting Titus right now I would be voting Titus with them.

But as is Titus is the only one right now speaking total sense and while that could be hardcore buddying there is no way in hell I am lynching the only sensible voice in the room when everyone else is going off the fucking rails.

[Wraith]

Like use your fucking brains.

If I am scum and got away with killing TWC, why would I come out and claim to have visited him the night he died? Why would I even be

dropping hints

that I did so? My claim was unprompted, I only did so because AC picked up on those hints and started pressing me about them. Why would I drop those hints if I'm scum and killed TWC? Why would I claim to have visited TWC and then been roleblocked if I'm actually scum and successfully nightkill them?

Use your fucking brains.

In case of a tracker or watcher.

Why wouldn't you?

You guys have fucking played yourselves.

Town's gonna lose this one.

[Wraith]

Jesus Christ I wish it was already fucking D3

Let's try to move that.

If y'all refuse to lynch dreal and I refuse to lynch Titus, what would be YOUR CHOICE for a compromise lynch?

And you can say "We outnumber you and don't need to compromise with you on Titus" and it's perfectly true. Y'all can overrule me and lynch Titus and I can't stop you. I won't join you though, not today.

[Wraith]

People miss stuff a lot.

??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

You are giving him shit for cluttering the thread and then you post shit like this

[Wraith]

Also you guys have constructed a scenario where I can't possibly be town

1. If I vote Titus and Titus flips scum, I'm bussing a scumbuddy
2. If I refuse to vote Titus and Titus flips scum, I'm refusing to bus a scumbuddy
3. If I vote Titus and Titus flips town, I've 180'd on my own reads and willfully mislynched a townread

[Wraith]

I do get that Prism himself said that will get back to TWC's concern, but your phrasing gives unnatural assertion, so I'll only ask you this once: Are you guys Masons?!

Yes.

Ignoring subjective evaluations about our skill value,

voting drealm is exactly equivalent to voting myself.

He's town. They are equally horrible. Feel free to move it to me if you desire, it makes no difference.

This is a fucking horrible last 7 pages and I'll deal with it later.

Oh JFC

Normally I wouldn't think the Mason claim from you is credible but considering you seemed to have breadcrumbed that hard...

UNVOTE:

Don't know what to think right now. Scum!Titus has been seeming increasingly plausible to me since Infinity's post.

[Wraith]

Okay, so if we operate under the assumption that drealmerz and Prism are telling the truth, and I elect to trust my townreads on Shepard and Infinity, that means just by PoE the scum pool is pretty small:

Titus
Tea and Biscuits
Almost Chara
Empking
Shaddowez

And of those 5, it is likely 3 are scum.

I want to see what several of these players have to say about today's Mason drama since most of them have been absent throughout it. With the options narrowed to this I probably won't have a choice but to eventually join the Titus wagon today, simply because the likelihood of hitting scum among this is so high and he's arguably the scummiest of the bunch.

But the problem is that if Titus does flip town, the town is in a very serious situation, where we'll be in MyLo with at least three players have been designated as "LyLo lynches" - myself, drealmerz, and Prism.

[Wraith]

Assuming everyone who has claimed is telling the truth Titus/T&B/Shaddow is my current guess.

[Wraith]

Intent to hammer if we move forward

[Wraith]

You do all realize we have 8 days and that close to every single one of you admit to having know earthly idea what's going on?

Why on earth do you refuse to take this time to catch up for the sole reason of having a Titus flip 6-7 days earlier when a mislynch takes us to MyLo?

1- Because this is NOT a mislynch
2- Because the game stagnation creates apathy

~A50

I echo this sentiment.

I only want to hear reactions from Empking and Shadow at this point before just moving on. Arguing in circles for a week just to come to the same conclusion we decided upon previously will just kill the interest of myself and probably several other players in this game.

[Wraith]

Oh wow, how did I miss #2503? That's astonishingly faulty logic

[Wraith]

Why can't scum keep masons alive to mislynch one of them?

The majority of players consider the claimed Masons conftown. It is unlikely much of anything in terms of argument will change their minds, flips would be needed.

Scum know for a fact whether or not the claimed Masons are telling the truth.

If they are, scum are at a distinct disadvantage because the two claimed Masons stand a minuscule chance of being mislynched. To prevent PoE from eventually catching the scum out, they would have to prioritize killing the Masons.

And if the claimed Masons are lying, they won't be nightkilled anyways. But only the scum know for sure what will happen. Either way, flips and PoE will eventually reveal the truth.

[Wraith]

We've heard back from Shaddow and Empking on this stuff so personally I'm ready to move on.

Again, intent to hammer.

[Wraith]

Wraith unless you have more than one vote votes are still split I think.

I thought we were holding off on putting Titus at L-1 to prevent a lolhammer or self-hammer.

I'll join that wagon now if that's fine.

[Wraith]

if titus is a lynch you believe will hit scum, wraith, vote it - if there is someone you think is more likely scum, vote there

You said yourself the masons are too obvtown for scum to leave alive. So why would scum!postie try and throw shade on them?

postie does that exactly for the reason 'ohmy look at that that is too blatantly wrong, must be town dumbtunneling' or somesuch similar, it's kind of a scum-LAMIST move

The point isn't that I'm on the fence about Titus flipping scum - at this point, I think it's much more likely than not that she will. It's that apparently Prism has requested more time for whatever reason, and if my vote allows Titus to self-hammer and deny that to Prism, I'm not going to do that.

Personally I'd rather we just ended the day now but it's not up to me.

[Wraith]

Why don't they just do that instead trying to push a mislynch that will never go through?

Why can't town be suspicious of masons if they were very much so before the claim?

In addition to what Shepard has already said, you understand that if Prism and drealmerz are telling the truth, the scum are likely in a pretty annoying catch-22 situation right now. They likely have to kill one of those two players, and they know there's a claimed town protective role in the game (me) that they know for a fact isn't lying. So they have only a handful of equally bad options:

1. Shoot drealmerz and pray Wraith doesn't protect him, confirming Prism as Town
2. Shoot Prism and pray Wraith doesn't protect him, confirming drealmerz as Town
3. Shoot Wraith, confirm him as Town retroactively, and still leave the Mason problem untouched
4. Shoot some other Town player and pray Wraith isn't playing major WIFOM mind games, still leaving the Mason problem untouched

[Wraith]

Oh and while options 1 and 2 would still result in the death of Wraith if he protected the target in question, it would result in the same outcome as option 3.

Like I said, a catch-22 situation.

[Wraith]

It honestly depends on how bold the scumteam is.

The safest option is obviously to just shoot me. If there is any chance Prism and drealmerz are lying, they would just shoot me and pray town went full stupid and "confirmed" them as town due to my death. of course this introduces a lot of WIFOM to the equation in regards to possibilities that Prism and drealmerz are scum, but that's kind of dumb since most of us are reasonably sure at this point that they are not lying.

But IMO the safest option for scum to just shoot one of the Masons and pray I protected the wrong one. Either way they will hit a townie, and a guaranteed kill on confirmed town - even if any result of it is bad for scum - is better than leaving the problem completely untouched.

[Wraith]

Let me clarify again - the first blurb is the "obvious safe option", but the second blurb is the "bold safe option" IMO.

[Wraith]

Oh and with all that said VOTE: Titus

I personally see no more benefit in delaying further.

[Wraith]

I don't know about anyone else but y'all have managed to thoroughly dispel any doubts that might have remained in me that this is a scum fakeclaim. And I think we've established that town players may not vote for drealmerz or Prism.

Is there anything else that really needs discussion? Can we finish this up already?

[Wraith]

I don't think anything needs discussed at this point

we just need someone to commit to the titus lynch

those not lynching titus at this point are supersuspect except for the 3 on t&b

I think we can determine that T&B is scum by the location of their vote and the lack of a vote on titus (a little too scared to be drawn in to suspicion by hammering for 'towncred', but, in doing so, has just made themselves more confscum, imo)

so, I'm trying to discern who the final scum could be based on who hammers and in what regard

it is odd that titus didn't self-hammer at this point too, but hey, what's the rush? read a book and wait for things to unfold

YOU aren't voting for Titus!

[Wraith]

"except for the 3 on T&B"

and I had actually mistaken who was where when I typed that

I thought AC was on T&B and empking was not-voting along with titus

so, yep, will just await prism's go-ahead (they'll likely just hammer after they check in)

you do realize that being antsy for the lynch is major-suspect, wraith? like...it's likely prism or I or you (if you're townBG) are the kill tonight (you said so yourself), so allowing prism to get in final thoughts and reads about everything is pretty crucial in case they're killed tonight, ya?

Oh Jesus Christ he still hasn't said his peace? Didn't he ask for extra time like two days ago?

IDC if it looks scummy, when a game idles on a certain lynch for days just to argue in circles about nothing of particular importance, it can destroy my interest in that game.

[Wraith]

I don't buy that claim for one second.

But it's actually possible for Titus to seriously be town in this scenario - this could have been a huge gambit by Empking to get us to view him as conftown when Titus flipped Town.

Think about it. If Titus is actually scum, this is a scumclaim by Empking. So if Titus doesn't get a reprieve as a result of it (extremely unlikely at this point) and flips scum, Empking is very obviously scum.

VOTE: Empking

[Wraith]

I would rather flip Empking than play with that WIFOM.

If he isn't fakeclaiming his flip will confirm Titus, meaning 4 conftown or 2 conftown and 2 near-conftown (I'm including myself as conftown in this BTW).

[Wraith]

why the fuck do you not lking have to claim it now, empking?

if you are 1-shot town cop, you are now vanilla and you would be saving another towny's life by claiming and giving us the valuable information before you die because:

if you were 1-shot town cop, you shouldn't have claimed your shots and let scum kill you tonight and saved me+prism without doubt

none of this makes sense other than a desperate attempt to save a more powerful team-mate

if titus were town, that would mean all scum are on her wagon because scum would have hammered with a free town-lynch without being suspect

ugh

reflecting a while

This is a good point.

If Empking were really a One-Shot Cop, there is absolutely no reason for him to hold back on his result, especially not until now when his INNO RESULT TARGET was at L-1.

[Wraith]

Holy shit drealmerz expressed an insight coherently

Is the fucking sky falling?

[Wraith]

When a scumster throws themselves under the bus so blatantly it is FOR A REASON.

Titus + Empking are conf!Scum now, but WHY would EMP so desperately out himself in an attempt to save Titus FOR JUST ONE MORE NIGHT??

The obvious answer is Titus has a much stronger role. Emp may be a Goon for all I know, but Titus has something MUCH stronger. That could be anything from a Strongman, to a double-kill ability (is this a thing) to even being an Encryptor (provides scum with daychat). I could think of more roles, but the point is TITUS HAS A STRONG ROLE. That's why she goes first.

"For Titus to be scum Emp must also be scum" is true, but the inverse of it is just as true. "If Titus flips Scum them Emp is Scum" is as true as "if Emp flips Scum then Titus is Scum". They're BOTH of the same alignment.

~A50

No, not necessarily. Did you see my post?

I don't buy that claim for one second.

But it's actually possible for Titus to seriously be town in this scenario - this could have been a huge gambit by Empking to get us to view him as conftown when Titus flipped Town.

Think about it. If Titus is actually scum, this is a scumclaim by Empking. So if Titus doesn't get a reprieve as a result of it (extremely unlikely at this point) and flips scum, Empking is very obviously scum.

VOTE: Empking

I think it's more likely this was a "perceived conftown gambit" by Empking than a "reprieve martyrdom gambit". I don't see how any scum role could be so powerful that a one-night reprieve is worth condemning (presumably) 2/3 of the scumteam to death. Not even a Scum Roleblocker, who could likely wreck my night plans if they roleblocked me.

That said your proposal does open a can of WIFOM again - it means a scum flip on Empking doesn't necessarily confirm Titus, so Titus will still have to die.

[Wraith]

But that I would rather lynch Empking first. That fakeclaim is so bad.

[Wraith]

Oh, wait...with that can of WIFOM opened by AC, I might have it backwards

A scum flip for Titus will confirm Empking as scum, but a town flip for Titus still means it's likely that Empking is scum.

An Empking town flip confirms Titus as town. But an Empking scum flip leaves Titus a 50/50 shot for either.

Shepard, what do you think about this?

[Wraith]

Ehh...I'm still somewhat skeptical but I'll go with it for now

VOTE: Titus

Empking dies tomorrow.

[Wraith]

my reflection led me to think what AC said: that it is a desperate attempt to save a strong scum PR - possibly strongman so that, if you are townBG, wraith, your protection doesn't matter, possibly multi-shot, especially considering the 3x town RBer

also, a 1x cop or any sort of cop is way OP with masons in the game, I just don't see it unless scum is packing some serious fucking punch beyond just strongman's and RBers of their own

Oh shit Strongman is a very real possibility I hadn't even considered.

Strongman Titus and farside Roleblocking me are equally plausible N1 scenarios.

[Wraith]

but the logic is flawed about towntitus necessarily means townempking

towntitus could mean scumempking

whereas townempking means towntitus unless titus is a GF

egh, it is weird to me you didn't consider strongman, it is the 1st thing I thought of making sense

In a Mini if my action fails to complete properly I immediately think Roleblocker. Strongman is really powerful for a Mini so I don't immediately assume it's a possibility.

[Wraith]

FFS Empking is lying period

There is absolutely no reason for a One-Shot Cop to withhold a result. None. It won't matter if he's killed (and likely will be immediately to ensure he isn't lying about being One-Shot) and it gives Town protectives a target without forcing them to out themselves. Withholding it at all just increases the chance of you dying without relaying it at all.

[Wraith]

I was speaking in a vacuum not about this game in particular

[Wraith]

well that doesn't do this game any good (:

we're trying to solve this game

Jesus Christ

In a general situation where there aren't a variety of viable targets the scum would very likely kill a One-Shot Cop claim immediately to make sure he isn't lying about his number of shots.

In this particular game I think it's very, very unlikely Empking will be nightkilled. Mostly this is because I think he's scum, but it's also because otherwise if Empking actually is town the scum know it and might keep him as very tempting mislynch bait. In such a scenario Empking has already made himself look exceptionally scummy with his claim and he would arguably look even worse if he came back with another result later on. A fakeclaim about shots would be a sensible town move but Empking's initial claim was so scummy that he's poisoned his well with WIFOM - we can't possibly trust anything he has to say at this point.

[Wraith]

as in, as I already posed: would you find empking's claim more believable then? especially if you assume infinity's claim to be true?

No. The WIFOM-poisoned well problem still stands.

It's all tainted by the fact that a One-Shot Cop has absolutely no reason to withhold their result. That Empking did calls everything about his motives into question.

[Wraith]

so you didn't buy his explanation at all?

you do realize that sorting WIFOM is the crux of good mafia, ya?

He didn't explain it at all. He basically said "I'd rather not have claimed at all. Also I've played Mafia a long time so my meta is a dislike of unprompted claims."

If you've been paying attention, you'll remember I

have

sorted this WIFOM - Empking is scum. But the WIFOM dooms him to die no matter what - we can't trust a single word he says anymore, and so he is a liability in a LyLo situation.

It's not merely that he withheld his claim to use it at the most strategic moment. He didn't even claim his result when Titus started receiving heavy scrutiny, he waited literally until the last possible moment to throw it out there. What if he was late? What if one of the fence-sitters had decided they were impatient and just hammered away hours or minutes before Empking could speak up? In such a scenario where Empking is telling the truth and Titus isn't a Godfather, he would have willfully allowed us to lynch a confirmed Townie while he held that card against his chest - even worse, he would have wasted his only shot simply because he didn't want to claim.

And to add to that, Empking has made little to no attempt to actively scumhunt or solve the game today. If he has insider knowledge on another player and was withholding his claim strategically, why hasn't he been pushing against people who are scumreading Titus or trying to PoE more scum? Even now he remains extraordinarily passive despite having allegedly laid all his cards on the table.

Like, it's WIFOM-y for y'all's perspective to shill myself, but contrast Empking's claim with my claim. Once I claimed and revealed my insider knowledge of the N1 goings-on, I threw myself into the discussion and started to try and PoE the scum based on those happenings. And even though you guys don't know for certain whether or not I'm truthful town here, I do - and I'm certainly taking our contrasting responses to claiming and claimed insider knowledge into account when I'm sorting Empking.

I'm literally repeating myself now. I don't know what about this is so hard for you to understand.

[Wraith]

Seriously the more I have to explain this and transcribe from my brain to the page the more I am convincing myself to just lynch Empking today.

[Wraith]

There it goes

Titus scum confirmed

Empking dies tomorrow

Prism has no right to be mad about this either, he hasn't posted in-thread in

well

over two days. At some good actually did come of the delay, we caught Empking.

[Wraith]

Okay, so if we operate under the assumption that drealmerz and Prism are telling the truth, and I elect to trust my townreads on Shepard and Infinity, that means just by PoE the scum pool is pretty small:

Titus
Tea and Biscuits
Almost Chara
Empking
Shaddowez

And of those 5, it is likely 3 are scum.

I want to see what several of these players have to say about today's Mason drama since most of them have been absent throughout it. With the options narrowed to this I probably won't have a choice but to eventually join the Titus wagon today, simply because the likelihood of hitting scum among this is so high and he's arguably the scummiest of the bunch.

But the problem is that if Titus does flip town, the town is in a very serious situation, where we'll be in MyLo with at least three players have been designated as "LyLo lynches" - myself, drealmerz, and Prism.

I don't buy that claim for one second.

But it's actually possible for Titus to seriously be town in this scenario - this could have been a huge gambit by Empking to get us to view him as conftown when Titus flipped Town.

Think about it. If Titus is actually scum, this is a scumclaim by Empking. So if Titus doesn't get a reprieve as a result of it (extremely unlikely at this point) and flips scum, Empking is very obviously scum.

VOTE: Empking

FFS Empking is lying period

There is absolutely no reason for a One-Shot Cop to withhold a result. None. It won't matter if he's killed (and likely will be immediately to ensure he isn't lying about being One-Shot) and it gives Town protectives a target without forcing them to out themselves. Withholding it at all just increases the chance of you dying without relaying it at all.

well that doesn't do this game any good (:

we're trying to solve this game

Jesus Christ

In a general situation where there aren't a variety of viable targets the scum would very likely kill a One-Shot Cop claim immediately to make sure he isn't lying about his number of shots.

In this particular game I think it's very, very unlikely Empking will be nightkilled. Mostly this is because I think he's scum, but it's also because otherwise if Empking actually is town the scum know it and might keep him as very tempting mislynch bait. In such a scenario Empking has already made himself look exceptionally scummy with his claim and he would arguably look even worse if he came back with another result later on. A fakeclaim about shots would be a sensible town move but Empking's initial claim was so scummy that he's poisoned his well with WIFOM - we can't possibly trust anything he has to say at this point.

as in, as I already posed: would you find empking's claim more believable then? especially if you assume infinity's claim to be true?

No. The WIFOM-poisoned well problem still stands.

It's all tainted by the fact that a One-Shot Cop has absolutely no reason to withhold their result. That Empking did calls everything about his motives into question.

so you didn't buy his explanation at all?

you do realize that sorting WIFOM is the crux of good mafia, ya?

He didn't explain it at all. He basically said "I'd rather not have claimed at all. Also I've played Mafia a long time so my meta is a dislike of unprompted claims."

If you've been paying attention, you'll remember I

have

sorted this WIFOM - Empking is scum. But the WIFOM dooms him to die no matter what - we can't trust a single word he says anymore, and so he is a liability in a LyLo situation.

It's not merely that he withheld his claim to use it at the most strategic moment. He didn't even claim his result when Titus started receiving heavy scrutiny, he waited literally until the last possible moment to throw it out there. What if he was late? What if one of the fence-sitters had decided they were impatient and just hammered away hours or minutes before Empking could speak up? In such a scenario where Empking is telling the truth and Titus isn't a Godfather, he would have willfully allowed us to lynch a confirmed Townie while he held that card against his chest - even worse, he would have wasted his only shot simply because he didn't want to claim.

And to add to that, Empking has made little to no attempt to actively scumhunt or solve the game today. If he has insider knowledge on another player and was withholding his claim strategically, why hasn't he been pushing against people who are scumreading Titus or trying to PoE more scum? Even now he remains extraordinarily passive despite having allegedly laid all his cards on the table.

Like, it's WIFOM-y for y'all's perspective to shill myself, but contrast Empking's claim with my claim. Once I claimed and revealed my insider knowledge of the N1 goings-on, I threw myself into the discussion and started to try and PoE the scum based on those happenings. And even though you guys don't know for certain whether or not I'm truthful town here, I do - and I'm certainly taking our contrasting responses to claiming and claimed insider knowledge into account when I'm sorting Empking.

I'm literally repeating myself now. I don't know what about this is so hard for you to understand.

DON'T MIND ME, JUST LAYING OUT A PERFECT AND CORRECT PLAN FOR TOWN TO WIN THE GAME JUST BEFORE I GOT FUCKING NIGHTKILLED THAT GOT TOTALLY IGNORED

[Wraith]

actually if empking were scum and tried to pull that gambit with titus, it makes absolute sense also that 1 of the ppl hopping on to empking and abandoning the titus wagon when that happened would also be scum for the ultimate "1 of us will get out of this alive with supreme towncred" ploy

AC was also one who jumped off titus ASAP after the empking claim

T&B was conveniently distant from all of that

Titus was never not getting lynched, dreal. People were reluctant to vote because they didn't want Titus to have the opportunity to self-hammer.

-- Postie

there was a fast exodus of the titus wagon when you claimed

infinity and AC at least is who I remember jumping off fast

why do you say they were never not getting lynched? you fought for her to not get lynched

When a scumster throws themselves under the bus so blatantly it is FOR A REASON.

Titus + Empking are conf!Scum now, but WHY would EMP so desperately out himself in an attempt to save Titus FOR JUST ONE MORE NIGHT??

The obvious answer is Titus has a much stronger role. Emp may be a Goon for all I know, but Titus has something MUCH stronger. That could be anything from a Strongman, to a double-kill ability (is this a thing) to even being an Encryptor (provides scum with daychat). I could think of more roles, but the point is TITUS HAS A STRONG ROLE. That's why she goes first.

"For Titus to be scum Emp must also be scum" is true, but the inverse of it is just as true. "If Titus flips Scum them Emp is Scum" is as true as "if Emp flips Scum then Titus is Scum". They're BOTH of the same alignment.

~A50

I don't buy that claim for one second.

But it's actually possible for Titus to seriously be town in this scenario - this could have been a huge gambit by Empking to get us to view him as conftown when Titus flipped Town.

Think about it. If Titus is actually scum, this is a scumclaim by Empking. So if Titus doesn't get a reprieve as a result of it (extremely unlikely at this point) and flips scum, Empking is very obviously scum.

VOTE: Empking

FLIPPED TOWN

I don't see the downside except maybe helping scum setup spec a little better.

Anyway: VOTE: empking since he has to be scum for titus to be scum.

The 1-shot part is super safe as well.

FLIPPED TOWN

Flawless fucking logic drealmerz. Just fucking flawless.

We are hitting fractal wrongness level

Also just want to highlight this fucking masterpiece of logical deduction by drealmerz.

Spoiler: Anti-Drealmerz Rant Read At Own Risk

I think his play during D4 was seriously the dumbest I've ever seen, period.

HOW DO YOU END UP IN MYLO LITERALLY SCUMREADING ALL THE TOWN PLAYERS AND TOWNREADING ALL THE SCUM PLAYERS?! TO A FUCKING MAN. HOW?!

FOR FUCK'S SAKE YOU APPROACHED MY FAKECLAIM AND SHEPARD'S CLAIM WITH INTENSE SKEPTICISM BUT UNCONDITIONALLY ACCEPTED

FUCKING EMPKING'S

? WHAT FUCKING PLANET ARE YOU ON?!

THERE IS A REASON YOU KEEP ENDING UP IN LYLO/MYLO SITUATIONS WHEN YOU'RE TOWN DREAL AND IT'S NOT YOUR WINNING PERSONALITY

[Wraith]

ME RIGHT FUCKING NOW:



Needless to say I got pretty nasty in the dead thread so read at your own risk.

BOTH FUCKING REMAINING SCUM PLAYERS HAD FEWER POSTS THAN

THE FUCKING MODERATOR

YOU GUYS FUCKING BLEW IT

[Wraith]

whoever came up with the Empking gambit (Titus?) won the game for scum.

sorry Postie. you seemed like the

only

alternative to a lynch on us so i thought there was at least a chance for a town win. maybe if we'd stayed pushing shaddowez it would have been different. Empking seemed impossible to get lynched.
~Chara

No, that was a fucking abominable fakeclaim and any town worth their salt saw through it

immediately

.

The scum won when the two confirmed or might-as-well-be-confirmed players (dreal and Shepard) lost their fucking minds and started scumreading each other rather than the extremely obvious fakeclaims.

[Wraith]

i still don't understand why shaddow was town to anyone. i was paranoid about everyone who wasn't dreal right until the end.

pedit: sorry, Wraith. i tried to call attention to how hard you were scumreading Empking but it didn't seem to matter. and my paranoia didn't help.

Yeah you'll see how much I sung your praises in the dead thread.

You had some disappointing inconsistencies but considering the amount of ridiculous pressure your were under I don't blame you.