DoY I: British Monarchy Mafia (Mini 1896) - Game Over :O

[shaddowez]

Hey everyone! Happy to be here, will catch up once I get to work. Any relevant​ questions or posts I should look at will be appreciated.

[shaddowez]

My office had no internet for most of the morning :/

I'm at about page 10, and so far am liking Prism for town, actually think dreal may be town (though to be fair, I'm not sure I've ever seen a scum game from him), and am not liking Bork Bork. I'll add in more details once I'm further in my readthrough.

[shaddowez]

I feel terrible having replaced in and being so slow, just found out my landlord isn't renewing our lease so I'm scrambling to find a new place....trying to catch up, but will probably not have much in the terms of content until tomorrow. Doing what reading I can now, though.

[shaddowez]

Also, the only role scum would claim is VT.

That might be true in Newbie games, my friend, but certainly not in closed setups. I've won a game (as Scum) by fake claiming a JK for instance. If Scum don't know what to expect in a setup they should (a) Avoid claiming, and (b) if FORCED to; claim something they can get away with. As I pointed out, there's a whole host of investigative roles than can catch me if I'm fake claiming. Tracker/Follower would see me visiting someone/submitting an action, thus proving me lying. Watcher would see me visiting their target, thus prove me lying. Neapolitan will get "Not Vanilla" on me, so I'm caught. Role Cop would get "Almost Chara has the role of <insert role here>" and thus I'm lying. A normal Cop will get a guilty on me too. So, it'd only be safe for me to claim VT if I expect there NOT to be ANY of those in the game. I'm only trying to make you improve your logic though. If you think I'm, scum, so be it. Town doesn't really lose much by lynching me. It's better than a mislynch on a PR and -even better- no PR has to claim on D1, so least info given to Scum still. In fact, if we do NOT get lynched it'd be relatively worse than lynching us now, because Scum will know where NOT to shoot.

Conclusion: More votes on us, please. It's your best option currently, unless you think you can lynch ACTUAL SCUM and with CONFIDENCE.

~A50

Not going to vote yet since I'm only on page 12, and this may have been addressed further, but I absolutely

hate

this post. There are so many discrepancies it's not even funny:

1) Watcher has to manage to target the person you're targeting, which is a 1/144 chance.
2) If you're limited shot or night modified (even/odd, N2, etc) there's plenty of chances for you to do nothing N1 to be caught.
3) Neapoliton/flavor cop would be useless if you're a goon
4) This is a great way to invite PRs to visit you, leaving other players to do things without the risk of being followed, copped, etc. If you are just a goon, this may get you lynched D2 but it increases the likelihood of a mislynch D1, and increases the chances of more powerful roles to get away for at least an extra night.
5) If there's a scum RB, you may be more willing to gambit as well, especially if you think your team will be good at PR hunting.

The only thing I'm alright with in this post is his conclusion, although even that has its flaws.

[shaddowez]

Page 15.

I believe Infinity's miller claim. I've only seen his town game as far as I can recall, and this seems like similar play. It doesn't feel like the type of gambit he would make. I'm liking his interactions as well, so the town read isn't based purely on the claim.

Of the active(ish) players, Wraith is my strongest scum read at the moment. Most of his early posts are useless, including his 58 where he asks for no spam, then posts one liners doubting Infinity's claim, without really trying to follow up. His "stream of consciousness" post in 285 is the first post that has any real substance, and even that's a stretch. He then votes nancy out of his list of suspects, claiming there's "already some footing", even though in Ari's latest VC (251), AC (also one of his listed scum reads) has 4 votes while nancy has 1.

I'm still scum reading Bork, but need to catch up on his replacements. I'm also still scum reading AC, but they haven't done much in the pages I've read so there's nothing for me to change my mind on there.

My town read on Prism is waning a little bit, but it still a town read. I'm also townreading T&B at this point.

TWC I'm having a hard time parsing,

[shaddowez]

Was out looking at places to live today, will get back to this game tomorrow

Welcome farside!

[shaddowez]

Finally caught up to where I replaced in. Going to reread the last 7 pages, but here's a brief of my reads:

TRs: Infinity, Prism, and nancy. Even if I don't agree with all of their conclusions, I like how they've all been interacting and the thought processes in arriving at their conclusions.
SRs: Wraith, Almost, and T&B. I'll get more in detail when I'm actually done and place a vote.

Everyone else is floating around somewhere in between.

[shaddowez]

Alright, so Pine has floated down to my scum read list. I don't always read lurking as scum, but his post after his last prod (940) coupled with not doing anything since is bothering me.

Also misread my list earlier, T&B isn't actually a scum read. (This is what happens when I try to read 30 pages of a game and do notes at the same time).

Almost has bouts of towniness, but all in all I get a bad feeling about their posts. Their VT "gambit", or whatever it was, was terrible, and the defense of it had more holes that swiss cheese. The push on Think primarily because of one of the heads lurking as scum is terrible as well. Willing to vote here, but would rather go here...

Wraith admitting to be lurking, yet mainly wanting to lynch in the lurker pool is bad. He wouldn't answer when asked if he felt lurking was AI, and his disinterest in D1 is unhelpful to town at best. I feel like his lurker stance is a misdirection of "Hey, they're doing it, look at them, not at me!" His reaction to Infinty claiming miller also felt insincere, and while he doesn't seem to buy the claim he never pushes Infinity or tries to sort it.

VOTE: Wraith

[shaddowez]

Sorry for less than contentful responses, I've been extremely busy and don't want to make Ari replace this slot a 3rd time.

Welcome CK! I'll have to review that game, I remember your name but not which game we were in.

Wraith

- Do scumbuddies have a given way they act towards each other? Pre-flip associatives are terrible, and your AC/having theory in 1191 feels like you're trying to line up lynches.

I'm still torn on AC. I really like 1206 and 1235, and don't think I really want to risk voting there today.

T&B

- According to Ari's last VC back in 317 and haven't changed your vote since. Who else are you scumreading? Are you so certain of your read from that far back that there's no chance your just tunneling and biased?

[shaddowez]

It feels off. Like you're trying to appeal to farside instead of throwing up your hands and calling her a VI or OMGUSing her.

I don't get this...

[shaddowez]

1206 actually indicates a desire to want to continue discussions. It's in response to farside, but isn't overly defensive or snide. That one post isn't likely to make any change in farside's read on them, so there was no need to post it at all.

1235 was a follow up of thoughts from prior posts regarding CS calling the AC/farside posts TvS. Rather than trying to convince Shepard that farside is the scum in that equation, or even just defending themselves, they explain a thought process and try to derive the thought process of Shepard. Again, while not necessarily a town move, I'm not sure I see scum having responded in that way.

[shaddowez]

shaddowez: do you have a read on drealmerz/CloudKicker?
~Chara

I still think dreal is town. This is mostly based on meta, which is terrible since I don't think I've ever actually seen scum!dreal, but he's been lynchbait in every game I've seen. His emotions and posting style have always come off as scummy, but I think there would be a more contrived feel than I'm getting here if he was scum.

I don't really have a solid read on CloudKicker yet. I was scumreading the slot based on Pine's actions, and I don't think he's done anything obvtown to make me start townreading the slot.

[shaddowez]

Which is fair, and I'll do a reread of their ISO for this game.

As an addendum to my CK read above: I want to go through their posts again, but did remember one thing I didn't like: The basing of reads on other players votes. With no flips or possible associatives, players can be independently scummy and should not be townblocked because you don't like the person voting them. It's even more glaring since it's only one person per instance, not like a wagon of scummy people.

[shaddowez]

Alright, just reviewed the game CK and I were in, and the scum team went down in a flying pile of dog poo, largely in part due to it possibly being my worst game on site as either alignment. I was already at L-3 when CloudKicker replaced into the game, so him claiming he can read me that quickly bothers me.

[shaddowez]

Forgot to post my standard weekend V/LA message apparently.

I'm actually in the same boat as dreal regarding TWC. I'm starting to build up a case, but with 2 days left in the deadline, and the limited amount of time I have between now and then, I don't think it's worth dividing our energy and trying to push there.

I didn't like the VT claim/gambit/whatever it was from Almost, but the response to it from TM was terrible. Lurking argument aside, they never did anything that even gave a glimpse of being town. fitz wasn't doing much to help that, but his catch up in 1367 is intriguing. I'll have more thoughts on this once he finishes his catch up.

[shaddowez]

So, here's the reason I didn't want to comment after fitz' first catch up post until he was done....while the posts have a decent amount of content and supporting links in them, it feels like he's supporting pre-existing reads, rather than forming them based on the points he's making. I didn't want to point that out before he was done, but rather see if his following posts were any better.

Scum have to choose who they're going to read as town or scum based on what content they can pull from in the thread, whereas town has to use what's presented to make their reads. If you look at his reads, there's very little progression, rather an initial read on each slot and then more evidence to support that particular read. The only place this doesn't match up is nancy/farside, but the read changes at the replacement entrance, which is a convenient place to do so.

VOTE: havingfitz

I believe that's

L-1

[shaddowez]

I'd vote CK if the wagon moves that way. Him, Wraith and Fitz are my top 3 scum reads right now. Will provide more content later when not phone posting.

[shaddowez]

CK

- If you're claiming to be able to read me, and deduced that I was scum based on what I had already posted, why was there need to "develop" a case on me?

[shaddowez]

I got busy irl i didnt wven have time to develop my shadow case

When was shaddowez a wagon before you voted?
=

Why would that actually matter? Every wagon is going to have a first vote.

[shaddowez]

Mmm, I love lunching scum. Breakfasting them is better though

[shaddowez]

Mmm, I love lunching scum. Breakfasting them is better though

BRYNCH

Don't think this interaction isn't going into my sig after the game ends

[shaddowez]

having fliping scum would lead to TWC, Chara and wraith being all town, which would lead to scum on wraith/chara

from pure meta, id say that theres probably 1 to mayybbee 2 scum wagoned, max 2 scum on any wagons. max 1 scum vote-bus,

They are probably distrubuted on a high probably mislynch + low probably like any game, 1 on tea/not voting prob

This has been bothering me for a while, as your numbers here don't seem to add up at all. At this point in the game, the wagons were havingfitz, Wraith, AC, and T&B. You townread AC and Wraith (both in 1136), and scum read fitz. I'm not sure you commented on T&B at all, so either you scum read them (as your second possible wagoned scum), or you don't and saying that there are possibly two scum wagons makes no sense.

Then, you say there's probably a scum in tea/not voting. That group of people was Empking, farside, you, and Prism. 1131 makes it sound like you're town reading the farside (nancy) slot, you don't once interact with Empking, and you finally say you read Prism as scum in 1500. The two wagons are neck in neck, I'm around, and rather than keep moving my vote back and forth to ensure a lynch, I'll make sure it's where it needs to be closer to deadline.

This all feels like it's a crapshoot of numbers and names, and you had to work your reads to make everything line up, which they still don't.

P-Edit:

I'm fine with lynching you or fitz, and based on you voting him upon your replace in, and then switching your vote to me when it seemed like a fitz lynch may actually happen, I wouldn't be surprised if you both flip scum.

[shaddowez]

Almost Chara (4): HavingFitz 216, Drealmerz 238, Commander Shepard 1062, Empking 1036

^^^^^ town cw to scum!having

If fitz does flip town, what happens to this theory?

[shaddowez]

The extension brought it until today - look at the first VC from Ari, the deadline was supposed to expire on Monday, April 10

[shaddowez]

@Mod, standard weekend V/LA

Will try to keep up. Why does it look like CK isn't being pushed today?

[shaddowez]

@MOD

- Will be V/LA all week unfortunately. I'm at training and no wireless devices are allowed in the building I'm in. Trying to catch up now with the few minutes I have.

[shaddowez]

2151 really bothers me. There's a level of certainty in that post that doesn't sound like it's coming from town. While I'm hesitant to lynch a claimed PR at this point, I still sort of want to see Wraih swing. The claim doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Why claim when he wasn't successful, especially if he thinks there's a roleblocker? Also, the fact that he's only addressing roleblock instead of any of the other possibilities for why his protect wouldn't have worked seem like a narrative he's already formed, rather than trying to think things through.

[shaddowez]

dreal

, talk to me about your T&B read. I need to reread them, though I don't remember finding anything particularly scummy about their play last time I went through their ISO.

[shaddowez]

I have to ask to get replaced sorry aristo

Not to worry CloudKicker! Thanks for joining us!

Searching for a replacement now.

Seriously? Why isn't this slot lynched?

[shaddowez]

Welcome Titus!

P.S. Inb4 someone says I know Titus' role: Titus is a female herself. I also have it on my notes that the slot's flavour is Queen Victoria, but O can't remember if it was explicitly claimed or if I deduced it from a crumb.

Pine claimed it in his one post of the game.

and wraith is tunneling me because I made a stupid mistake (that I'd never make as scum, btw) and can't let go or even see that it is possible that I'm so out of it that it's a reasonable mistake, it's really annoying

Do you think Wraith is scum because he's tunneling, or do you think he's just confbiased?

P-Edit

: People got to it before me

[shaddowez]

GEE LET'S SPEND 20 PAGES REPEATING THE FIRST 80 PAGES SO TITUS DOESN'T HAVE TO FUCKING READ THEM AND WASTE EVERYONE'S TIME AND MAKE MORE SUPERFLUOUS POSTS

So instead you're going to spam posts complaining about Titus not reading 90ish pages in the attempts to find the one posts where you made a mistake, instead of just answering and continuing conversation?

[shaddowez]

Wraith

- Why do you think you were RBed instead of any of the other possible situations that could have led to the same result? Also, do you think Farside would have targetted you?

[shaddowez]

dreal

, talk to me about your T&B read. I need to reread them, though I don't remember finding anything particularly scummy about their play last time I went through their ISO.

dreal

, I don't think you ever did this.

Titus

- what are your thoughts on Infinity? If you didn't read the thread or ISO him at all, he claimed miller in his first post.

@Shadowez: You do realize a BG claim could be a cover for the real killer in case there was a Tracker on them or a Watcher on their target, yes? I'm not saying this must be the case, but I wouldn't put too much faith on that claim either. Just saying.

Oh definitely. I also think the "I was acting scummy so I figured I got roleblocked by town" seems to be a bit too specific of a narrative for me. The fact that farside flipped RB at the start of D1 means there's no town RB to verify whether or not that happened, which is super convenient. Normally I wouldn't risk a lynch on a claimed PR, but this doesn't work for me.

VOTE: Wraith

[shaddowez]

dreal

- Who do you think is the scummiest player on your wagon right now? What do you think of the fact that the two players you're scum reading hardest (Infinity and T&B, unless I'm wrong) are't currently voting you? Why would Infinity have hopped off at L-1 if he's scum and you're town?

[shaddowez]

Started catching up....was town reading drealmerz already, so I'd like to believe his claim. Definitely won't be voting there today.

Is Titus crazy for trying to get the mason partner to claim? With enough other scummy players around, that should never happen. Her posts surrounding it are terrible. Liking CS based on his reaction to Titus.

I want to vote Titus but want to a) finish catching up, and more importantly b), verify VC. Will try to finish tonight, if not definitely in the morning.

[shaddowez]

Not phone posting this morning and actually catching up.

the 1 head has disappeared, and it reads to me like "oops I'm getting more SR and leaving us open to criticism than postie so I'm just stay hushed" - whereas a towny doesn't worry about that because all they should be trying to do is bring ideas to the table for discussion

I understand your previous two points, but isn't this line of reasoning similar to what got fitz lynched? Not that it was the actual reason, but that's what pinged people in the first place and made them look at the slot with a scum-tinted view?

I'm Queen Mary of Orange

and I'm a mason

Great, then your mason partner (if real) can vouch for you. Otherwise, I am not unvoting.

WHAT?!?! No, no, no. Any PR should be moved off of L-1 so a derphammer doesn't come in. What doesn't add up even more is your later posts where you say you want the partner to claim, yet by leaving your vote there you leave the opportunity for a hammer to happen before that.

Shaddowez vote is pretty bad.

You're at least the second person to say that about by Wraith vote (not including Wraith himself) without giving any reasons. So, why is it bad?

Why are we unvoting before his Mason partner claims?

This smells like dreal claiming Mason to cover for a scum bus that was already on the wagon.

Now you're just parroting Titus, with the same terrible reasons.

*shrug*

Pretty sure I've read something wrong here as the procedure for when scum fake a mason is to force the scum buddy to vouch. Yet, a counterwagon comes up on me for actually putting the worst slot in the game to his claim.

Actually, I'm pretty sure you have the worst slot in the game. CK should have been lynched yesterday.

@Wraith it is for the same reason I take yours seriously

Fake claiming mason while I am set up for lynching shop is horrendous.

I agree with CS here. I've seen a game where scum fake claimed mason, but it was much earlier in the game.

Like as far as I'm concerned the short list for his partner is down to these people:

Tea and Biscuits
Almost Chara
Empking
Shaddowez
Prism

It's probably not Titus because he pushed for the claim. It's not me because I say so and I've already claimed. It's probably not Infinity because he's already claimed Miller. It's probably not Shepard because he's claimed it's not him, but he could just be lying, though I think he's town and being truthful.

Let's not narrow down the likely partner and make things easier for scum.

This. This. This. Either you're scum (likely), or you're just doing all the work for them. Regardless of what scum is or isn't already doing, how does putting this info out there help town in any way?

The procedure is NEVER for the other mason to claim wtf.

AFAIK this is when the claim is unprompted.

We pressured drealmerz into making the claim. We should not give him a pass without confirmation, that would defeat the purpose of forcing a claim under pressure IMO.

PREDIT:

THEY ALREADY HAVE A BETTER TARGET IN ME TONIGHT

WHY WOULD THEY SHOOT THE CLAIMED MASON OVER THE CLAIMED BODYGUARD?!

This is why you do not claim the other partner.

One mason and one BG.

Mason is better to kill than BG.

Yes we did and fakeclaiming mason = suicide.

There is no way I am lynching Drealmerz.

In LYLO -1 if Drealmerz still alive then mason buddy claim not before.

The partner claims, wraith bgs partner scum are forced to shoot drealmerz.

If you believe the mason claim at all, why would you have the bg say which partner they are going to target? You're making less and less sense.

... I think I could lynch AC.

why AC? if my claim is to be believed, AC researched my claim and unvoted me basedon the sense of the flavor

why wouldn't they stay on me and hope a hammer comes before a partner claim?

wraith+titus looking more and more suspect

Dude, if they have a scum pm, they know you are honest in this setup and don't want to be seen pushing you.

Those of us who don't know you are town need your partner to claim. There's only one person I feel fits your bill based on things you've both said and I haven't read the game.

WIFOM

I think I'm most infuriated now than ever before that I got fucking Roleblocked by town. TWC was the obvtown townie to ever town and their insights would be such a stabilizing force right now.

I can't believe you idiots have 180'd so drastically based solely off an unverified Mason claim

Well yeah, they'd say to go through this process. That's why any competent scumteam kills them.

Competent scumteam leaves BG claim alone.
Doesn't even block it.

Because for the sheer reason if BG isn't dead policy in LYLO.

I disagree with this, but I feel any discussion here gives ideas to the scum team depending on what roles they may have.

that's why you don't play scummy as BG

you should be LAMIST as BG

Nah, BGs play as scummy people.

BGs want to take bullets that otherwise go at obvtown.

Nope town as possible to try to take a bullet so they don't have to wifom.

Wtf is this. Titus you know better.

There isn't wifom. A competent BG lets people know whom they are guarding. Then the slot is conftown if the BG flips.

....I don't even know what to say. That slot is in no way conftown if the BG has claimed and flips. That's a perfect scenario

for

WIFOM.

VOTE: Titus

I want Wraith tomorrow, especially if Titus flips scum. I'll have to reread T&B and Empking, because I imagine the third scum will be in there.

[shaddowez]

I've never seen scum fakeclaim masons except in an open setup.

NY 177

Marquis fake claimed masons with a townie who didn't call them on it. Town lost largely because of that.

[shaddowez]

Ok but I'm pretty sure that's not what's happening here.

Can we lynch titus now?

Not saying it is, just giving insight as to where my previous point had come from.

[shaddowez]

I agree.

So why is titus town again?

Because most of us are? Because you and Almost both went together from forcing Drealmerz to claim to campaigning for Titus to be lynched, never once considering that Dreamerlz could have been lying about being a Mason. Wheras town would generally put somebody at L- days-in Day Two with at least some thinking that their taret might be scum.

I don't think this really addresses the point of why you think Titus is town. Most of us are, yes, but there are scum out there (or this would be the worst game of mafia ever).

From the sounds of this post you think Infinity/Almost are scum, but you're still voting T&B. You actually moved off of AC (one of your scumreads) onto T&B because there was "no pressure", even though T&B only had one vote. Why not push for one of your scum reads?

[shaddowez]

Catching up.

I wasn't scum reading Empking until yesterday due to the claim, based on timing. The fact that he wasn't NKed has me paranoid....on the other hand, a Godfather flip and a claimed Miller would make sense, and scum leaving him alive is a perfect way to add doubt. If scum have limited-shot abilities, I could see them believing a 1-shot claim. I need to look more into Wraith's ISO and see why they may have killed him over Empking.

I understand wanting to sort the masons before LyLo/MyLo, especially with the Wraith kill over either of them, but I'm still completely against lynching either of them today. I've been town reading both of them to an extent the entire game, and refuse to vote them today.

On the other hand, we still have Infinity's miller claim. I was re-reading them during the night phase, and their read on me has me on edge. His town read on me for most of the game has been based on the amount of content I had, and didn't really seem to be questioning my thought process. Now that we've had a scum flip, I'm "scum by PoE".

AC

- what's up?

[shaddowez]

Sorry, should have said "depth of content", not amount of content.

And sure....let's start with T&B. You've said multiple times that you think they're town, but I don't recall any actual reasons.

[shaddowez]

Shepard, can we talk about what happens when me or T&B flip town?

We lynch the other of you.

I am confTown.
Masons are conf.
Empking is town because Titus set Empking up.

This game is literally unlosable

Scum have to be in T&B Infinity and Shaddowez and AC.

Based on AC's response scum are T&B and Infinity.

CS - are you basing the A50/T&B team on associatives? Because if that's the case, wouldn't you want to look at me and Infinity as a possible team if either A50 or T&B flip town?

[shaddowez]

Empking is town because Titus set Empking up.

Talk to me about this.

You're not discussing here you're just pushing reads. Take a step back, cooperation is the only way we can win.

Something about this post has me on edge. Fruit vendor isn't

definitely

a town role, yet Infinity is talking to CS like he know's he's town while calling him out for something that's much more likely to come from scum (pushing reads without discussing them)

[shaddowez]

I townread T&B because postie is playing to her town meta. She is much more aggressive as town and she constantly doubts and re-evaluates herself, which is something I can relate to. Wrestling with paranoia is something I have not seen scum!postie come close to fake, even though she is good as scum in other ways.

I thought I had other things but let's start with this. I also thought 2681 looked a lot like a buddy attempt.

Spoiler:

If scum do something like shoot me instead to avoid the problem

Then they'd just have the same problem the next night. Either Wraith dies or one of the masons dies.
Bleh. I guess we're lynching Titus then.
If Prism is actually a mason here then god knows why their posts are pinging my scumdar so hard all the time.

-- Postie

I'm going to be really annoyed if this is town!dreal and scum!Prism fakeclaiming masons as neighbours but I'm probably overthinking.

-- Postie

Everything that's happened points towards town!Prism and I know logically they should be town but my gut still says they're scum I don't understand this game

-- Postie

Bleh. I'm gonna go meta Prism and hopefully that'll make me feel better.

-- Postie

Bleh. I'm gonna go meta Prism and hopefully that'll make me feel better.

-- Postie

Wow that didn't make me feel better at all. I'm just... I'm just gonna put this out of my mind until we get or don't get a mason flip because there's really nothing I can do right now with this.

-- Postie

Elaborate.

In the game I looked at you seemed to making an effort to seek out engagement much more, and taking stances in a different way where you like put out several options and evaluated them idk. Here it just feels like you're talking

at

the thread rather than to it.

-- Postie

I've just realised I actually scumread masons quite often, and it's usually for something along the lines of them being lazy with their reasoning and stances and not feeling like they're really trying to engage properly or fully play the game. That

does

make me feel somewhat better about Prism being town here. It's also now making me slowly despise masons as a role.

-- Postie

I said that before postie posted this, but it's a good example of what I'm talking about. Town is likely to go through a difficult process like this when a top scumread of theirs claims mason. Scum would probably either try to push them, or more likely just accept the masons as conftown. It just seems really hard to fake and at the very least it would take a lot of effort for not much reward if she was scum.

So, correct me if I'm wrong, but you're basically saying that almost nothing content-wise in this game has you townreading them, it's mainly meta?

[shaddowez]

AC - what's up?

Almost

- you had said something earlier about wanting to talk to me. Did you still have something?

[shaddowez]

Catching up, I'm okay with a massclaim if that's what we decide.

[shaddowez]

Alright, so there was less activity than I thought.

Infinity

- 2681 was before the Titus flip, so a buddying attempt should have been only speculation at that point, and not something that would cement a town read. As for 2963, you're right in that it doesn't mention meta, but you're using it to support the meta argument you made in 2115. That's definitely an "I'm going to town read them because of what they do, oh look here's evidence of them doing it".

dreal

- considering the limited shots that have flipped or discussed so far, you don't think 4 scum would be too powerful? Even if there was only 1 PR in addition to the Godfather, a limited RB, limited doctor, and (possibly) limited cop doesn't really match up.

will ask one more time: WHY would a ONE-SHOT COP hold his investigation result until his target is wagoned to L-1?? What's the town motive behind that?? Make it likely for the lynch to go anyway because nobody trusted him?? Waste the Town's time so they have to rush on another lynch w/o thinking it over?? Protecting himself when he is effectively a VT from then on?? GIVE ME A FRIGGIN' REASON.

I have to agree with AC's thought process here, though as with Wraith's claim I'm hesitant to lynch any claimed PR early. I think the stranger part is that scum didn't attempt to kill him, though there's the possibility that there was enough pressure yesterDay that even with a Godfather flip they thought he'd be a likely lynch toDay?

If scum wanted one of their other members to claim a power role, what would they claim and when?

I don't like this post one bit.

VOTE: Infinity

This just isn't adding up, and of all the (living) claims so far I think this one needs to be sorted first.

[shaddowez]

I just realised all three of us are scumreading shaddowez
Can we just lynch there and deal with this shit tomorrow

-- Postie

I don't like this - T&B has been scumreading me purely based on my Titus push (more on this later) and PoE, then here tries to push a scumread on other people to get me lynched. I don't think dreal has been SRing me, and I think Shep has only been null/PoE on me (though I could be wrong). I haven't been SRing this slot at all this game, but something about this post rubs me the wrong way.

2693 feels like a scum post. I don't really see why town would make a case on Titus there when the lynch was already decided. Reads like a grab for towncred.

I stand by this.

Plus PoE.

-- Postie

Like he does very little all game and then suddenly when people want to lynch Titus he has a case on her

-- Postie

So, the two days before my Titus case post, I had managed to get in one post each. This was a catch up, which happened to be a case. Should I have just come in and done a naked vote instead? Seems like a "damned if I do, damned if I don't" situation. Additionally, I don't understand why my Titus case is an issue, when I posted a case (though not catch up posts) for each of my votes.

Trying to speculate why scum did this though is wearing me out. All I know is I don't think a 1-shot Cop makes ANY sense in this setup. It's either a 3-shot Cop or NO COP AT ALL.

~A50

Without knowing the scum powers, why does a 3-shot make more sense than either a 1-shot or any other limit? (Odd-night, #-night, etc)?

[shaddowez]

Sorry all, having a really bad personal day and not at all in the mood to get into this. Will be back tomorrow

[shaddowez]

Thanks dreal and Chara - catching up now.

[shaddowez]

I want everyone to tell me why the TR shepard

At this stage in the game, my main reason for the TR is his reads progressions seem to be organic, not forced. I'm not familiar with their play, but I also don't think their reactions regarding certain things (when they were being pushed about their main and the "scumslip" specifically) seemed like they were coming from scum, but more from town frustration. Fakeable? Sure, but it just meshed with the rest of their play enough to make sense as town. Lastly, I'm not great at VCA, but using what I can it doesn't seem to make sense for him to be scum.

[shaddowez]

VOTE: T&B

I haven't specifically TRed this slot all game, though I never had a strong enough SR to try and push it. Nobody was ever able to give me a good reason for a TR on this slot, and while Infinty was being sincere in his reasoning an almost purely meta read really isn't enough. She's been extremely lazy in her last few posts, and almost seems like she's just flipping a coin to decide who to vote, which leads me to believe she doesn't care for two reasons: 1) if people join her on the wagon she's already on, she's golden, and 2) if any other wagon gains enough steam, especially if a scum partner joins it, she can just hop over to hammer. She's not really pushing a read, just saying "shaddowez is scum based on this 1 post and because everybody else is town".

If we didn't have a miller

and

a Godfather flip I'd actually place Empking as more likely scum, but with the power level that flipped his claim makes complete sense.

[shaddowez]

She's also been conveniently off every lynch wagon since D1, including the CK/Titus wagon.

[shaddowez]

I agree with CS here dreal....

[shaddowez]

I hope you're right dreal.

VOTE: Almost Chara

[shaddowez]

I definitely disagree on how the EoD went yesterday, but AC already got hammered on that and felt it would be beating a dead horse. As for the wagon today, I was more confident on T&B, but you're driving.

[shaddowez]

GG everyone!

Ari, thanks for modding me and accepting me as a replace-in!

I really didn't think we were going to win this until the last day. Getting Infinity lynch was

literally

the only chance we had from my POV, and I really can't believe that happened. dreal hard TRing both me and Empking definitely didn't hurt, either.

If I recall properly, this is only my second scum win on-site, and I really don't count the first, so yay!!!