Open 680.1 C9++ | Endgame

[ThinkBig]

VC 1.11

Official Vote Count

CommKnight

(4): Green Crayons, Umlaut, RoryMK, FireScreamer

Green Crayons

(3): Brian Skies, Titus, Narna

FireScreamer

(2): FrankJaeger, CommKnight

FrankJaeger

(1): shannon

Titus

(1): davesaz

RoryMK

(1): Alchemist21

Not Voting

(1): Gamma Emerald

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2017-05-03 20:06:48)

[Brian Skies]

You've never had independent day 1 reads before? I should throw out a scum read on a player due to the actions of a player who I don't know for sure the alignment of because it's day freaking 1? People correctly argued against me suggesting that last game.

I'm implying that you are voting GC for associative of arguing what a trust tell is and coming down on my side of it despite none of that being AI.

I've had independent reads before. But you're basically taking a non-stance regarding the two of them. So, if Comm flips town, you're likely to just go 'well shit, we were wrong, let's lynch Umlaut now.' Scum do this because it keeps options open and lines up lynches.

Why do you think Umlaut is scum (independently of Comm)?

I'm implying that you are voting GC for associative of arguing what a trust tell is and coming down on my side of it despite none of that being AI.

I've explained what a trust tell is to

Umlaut

. I haven't done anything of the sort to GC. My scumread of GC basically boils down to me thinking he's just looking for easy things to jump on and that his comment about my posting is unlikely to have come from a town thought process.

[Narna]

GC started the argument, no?

[Brian Skies]

He didn't. He made an offhand remark, I asked him about it, and then he tried to justify it.

[Brian Skies]

and coming down on my side of it despite none of that being AI.

Also, I never once took your side in anything. So where is this coming from?

[Narna]

Ok then, on esec, I just

[Narna]

Brian Clouds, why did you pick your name and avi?

[Gamma Emerald]

That's not his name

[Brian Skies]

Brian Skies is something I've used since high school (and long before I ever joined this site). The avi is just related to my username.

[FireScreamer]

My Umlaut scumread predates my Comm scumread and was explicitly explained in the thread. I should update it tomorrow but for the purposes of this argument that will do. Town also leaves options open because they don't know who scum is.

Provide examples of GC jumping on easy things

[Brian Skies]

My Umlaut scumread predates my Comm scumread and was explicitly explained in the thread. I should update it tomorrow but for the purposes of this argument that will do. Town also leaves options open because they don't know who scum is.

Provide examples of GC jumping on easy things

And scum like to fencesit.

My argument with GC was about the example.

[Brian Skies]

Why do you think Green Crayons is town?

[FireScreamer]

Why do you think Green Crayons is town?

I can understand why he is coming to every conclusion from a town perspective. I find myself agreeing with him on almost everything but sometimes he says it first and better than I could. I correctly read him like this last game.

[FireScreamer]

The only thing I really disagree on is the idea that you manufactured the trust tell complaint but I think that's a misunderstanding.

[Brian Skies]

I correctly read him like this last game.

Yes, because you could possibly already know this.



Any examples?

[Narna]

Is FS's confidence townie Gamma Skies?

[Narna]

I say, si senor

[FireScreamer]

I correctly read him like this last game.

Yes, because you could possibly already know this.



Any examples?

The roles pre reroll were made public. Stop eye rolling me about things you are ignorant on.

Examples include Comm stuff. Shannon stuff. You stuff. He is actively trying to sort people.

[Gamma Emerald]

Who are you talking to?
I know what I'm using for a name if me and Brian hydra tho

[Brian Skies]

I correctly read him like this last game.

Yes, because you could possibly already know this.



Any examples?

The roles pre reroll were made public. Stop eye rolling me about things you are ignorant on.

Examples include Comm stuff. Shannon stuff. You stuff. He is actively trying to sort people.

If you make a dumb or unfounded comment, you get the eye roll. Also, unless you're claiming mason with him, then you have no business stating this.

Comm stuff, Shannon stuff, me stuff. Not really sure what you're getting at. I guess I can see you thinking the last line, but has he done anything you don't think a scum him could have faked?

[FireScreamer]

I correctly read him like this last game.

Yes, because you could possibly already know this.



Any examples?

The roles pre reroll were made public. Stop eye rolling me about things you are ignorant on.

Examples include Comm stuff. Shannon stuff. You stuff. He is actively trying to sort people.

If you make a dumb or unfounded comment, you get the eye roll. Also, unless you're claiming mason with him, then you have no business stating this.

Comm stuff, Shannon stuff, me stuff. Not really sure what you're getting at. I guess I can see you thinking the last line, but has he done anything you don't think a scum him could have faked?

What was unfounded about what I said? I'm saying I correctly hard townread him from an early point last game based on similar tells and unless somethimy upsets the apple cart in a big way.

Someone sharing your thought patterns and not just your conclusions are a huge sign that they are town.

[Brian Skies]

What was unfounded about what I said? I'm saying I correctly hard townread him from an early point last game based on similar tells and unless somethimy upsets the apple cart in a big way.

Someone sharing your thought patterns and not just your conclusions are a huge sign that they are town.

I read it differently, but sure, I can buy that.

I'd like to think so...but maybe that's just me. Also, you haven't actually pointed out what these conclusions were, so all I have left is to guess what they could be.

[FireScreamer]

I'm really trying to avoid having to do giant drunk which is probably just hungover 7 am quote pyramids but here I go

[Brian Skies]

Also, fyi, I'm grilling you right now because I do think there's a probable connection between you and GC. What with him soft defending you here, him getting all uppity about me giving you a warning shot on a possible trust tell, and you now chainsawing him.

[FireScreamer]

Is this one of those things whereby acknowledging the vote itself disrupts the reaction test?

I've never been a mason so I don't know exactly how I'd claim, but I think 'Hey mason buddy' 'Don't out us yet, buddy' kind of stuff is not the way.

The question focused on why you switched from Suspect #1 to Suspect #2, when both suspects were doing the same suspicious thing. I don't think you answered that yet.

I'm certainly not lynching anyone today that was scum last game, because that is counter-intuitive. It is a gambler's bet. But it's a bet even you know is likely to be correct. Rolling something twice in a row is highly unlikely. Especially if we end up being in a 2 mafia vs 10 VT & 1 1-shot PR game.

I ignored this kind of bad, self-serving logic this last go around--to my detriment. It's literally a 4/12 chance both times, and while I get there's a youtube video about how the probability of rolling scum both times is somewhat less likely than rolling town after rolling scum the first go around, the fact that you're staking out the position on

page 8

that you are going to be a slave to that probability is. very. stupid.

Mafia is a game of personalities. Probabilities divorced from personalities is a scum tool.

UNVOTE: Umlaut
VOTE: Comm

I can either explain it to you and it will be awkward, or we can just accept that you didn't realise I was being sarcastic and move on.

I mean I can't really argue with you if you say it was meant to be sarcastic, but when multiple people are asking you a serious question when trying to get a read on you, sarcasm isn't the answer.

Ircher tried that shit too in the last game.

Was he scum?
Is it alignment indicative?

That's not even the point I'm trying to make. Before we even have a flip, result or anything, D1 I'd just rather lynch outside of the 3 people who were scum last game. Simply due to the likelihood being less. Whether you agree with my math or not isn't the point of the whole thing. I'm trying to score us a scum lynch D1 even if it comes down to a bit of luck and mixing that with how people act. I mean hell, I suggest go Day 1 without lynching in the pool that were scum last game and already you got people going crazy that they might have to look elsewhere for a single day.

The problem is that it is an artificial no-lynch wall you're putting around three players, and you just happen to be one of them.

Arguing probabilities is maybe something to add onto a town read, but making it a basis to draw a line in the sand is not good.

If you're insinuating something here you should spell it out instead of just eye-rolling.

Are you stating that you don't understand what the insinuation is, or that you don't know whether there is an insinuation?

-----

It's not punishable to just say 'I would never do this as scum.'

What FS is saying is that he cannot be scum here because he did something only a town him would do

These are literally saying the same thing. "never scum" = "only town".

-----

Back when I was going on about the probability numbers, you guys are soo worried I won't lynch into two other people (and myself included).

You should want to sort EVERYONE

Mhm. Mhm.

^^^ More seriously: no.

You managed to articulate the different thoughts I was was attempting to convey in my original post. None of them were lost on you. This was easy enough, as my thoughts were all pretty obvious reactions to the Alchemist/Umlaut posts where each player called the other player some version of obvtown.

@dave:

@GC : Your "yup" is not helpful. I view giving someone multiple vague messages and then saying they received it without saying what it was you think they received as potentially manipulative. Do you have an investigative purpose in doing this?

I wasn't "giving" a message to Alchemist and Umlaut. I was noting their posts that occasioned commentary. I am not required to spell out my exact suspicions of any given player when they occur, and providing non-specific suspicions of a player can make them nervous. Particularly if they are scum.


This isn't groundbreaking. Not sure why you're acting like I'm doing something you've never seen before.

Trying to do this on a phone is torture. Here are posts where GC said something I agreed with before I said it, tried to seemingly genuinely sort someone or just engaged in general good posting. Contextually work out which applied and ask me if you are confused cause individually marking them on my phone is not happening.