Mini 1904: Rad Idea Mafia! (Endgame!)

[Chickadee]

Hmmm...Interesting. I'm also not sure how much weight to put into the discards quite yet.

[Chickadee]

I think with the discards we have actual meaningful game to discuss. You can RVS all you want, but I think our RVS time should examining the discards and what they could mean.

With that in mind, these were the discards that stuck out most to me.

1 Shot Vanilla Town = Town Private Investigator
SnarkySnowman = Town Gravedigger
TiphaineDeath = Town Innocent Child

[Chickadee]

I received 3 town roles.
But given if I confirm them before others both of my hidden roles are unique.

Since Radical decided to out me, I drew the following cards:

1) VT
2) Town 1-Shot Commuter
3) Town Compulsive Vigilante

I find this hard to believe. Two people got all town roles? That leaves no wiggle room for alignment, and is awfully convenient when it comes time to claim things. There's such a huge section of list that wasn't even touched that it would be a fairly safe gamble to try and claim all town choices.

[Chickadee]

So Chickadee, why does town Gravedigger ping your interest? Would you consider that a good role to get rid of? Because it's as useful as town miller but that wasn't in your list.

Disregard. I was thinking of something else . It's irrelevant now.

[Chickadee]

I received 3 town roles.
But given if I confirm them before others both of my hidden roles are unique.

Since Radical decided to out me, I drew the following cards:

1) VT
2) Town 1-Shot Commuter
3) Town Compulsive Vigilante

I find this hard to believe. Two people got all town roles? That leaves no wiggle room for alignment, and is awfully convenient when it comes time to claim things. There's such a huge section of list that wasn't even touched that it would be a fairly safe gamble to try and claim all town choices.

VOTE: Chickadee

Why did you leave out Rauth? He's essentially claiming the same thing in the following post:

I know that I for one drew all cards of the same alignment.
Also, you can't get town compulsive vig without also having another town card to serve as the alignment

Ah, I missed that. Genuine mistake.

Now I'm finding it even harder to believe.

[Chickadee]

Think what you want. It was a genuine mistake. I read through too quickly.

[Chickadee]

Think what you want. It was a genuine mistake. I read through too quickly.

Yet you had time to go back and quote a post from page 1 in 106?

True story, and a bit sloppy but here's how that played out:

I went to quote that and had it up, and then left to do something else, not game related. Like literally walked away from my computer. Came back, went to do something on my computer, so I opened another tab. Posted my first post. Then I found the other tab...and figured I'd post that too.

Probably not my shining moment.

[Chickadee]

Think what you want. It was a genuine mistake. I read through too quickly.

Yet you had time to go back and quote a post from page 1 in 106?

True story, and a bit sloppy but here's how that played out:

I went to quote that and had it up, and then left to do something else, not game related. Like literally walked away from my computer. Came back, went to do something on my computer, so I opened another tab. Posted my first post. Then I found the other tab...and figured I'd post that too.

Probably not my shining moment.

Not buying it. Everything after the third sentence makes me think you're bullshitting.

[Chickadee]

Can I get the rest of the alignments from you guys' cards?

Just to be clear, is this aimed at anyone specific, or the whole group?

[Chickadee]

Rat, that seems like a pretty scummy thing to be digging for. Sounds like you're trying to set up crumbs to later build a case against whoever ends up being easy lynchbait.


VOTE: Radical Rat


Thoughts, anyone else?

[Chickadee]

Can I get the rest of the alignments from you guys' cards?

Just to be clear, is this aimed at anyone specific, or the whole group?

Everyone who has not already shared. I don't need the roles, just the alignments of all three cards.

Rat, that seems like a pretty scummy thing to be digging for. Sounds like you're trying to set up crumbs to later build a case against whoever ends up being easy lynchbait.


VOTE: Radical Rat


Thoughts, anyone else?

If I do wind up using this for a case, it will be obvious that there's no wiggle room for me to just apply it to whoever.
Also, if it were scum motivated, I would have asked Jerry in private, or in the Scum PT, or in the Mason PT if I were a Mason.

I ask because in Greatest Idea, Mason is guaranteed not to be Mafia, but can be Werewolf, SK, Alien, etc.

Sorry, no, was talking about the bit I quoted here.

[Chickadee]

I need to post some on this eventually.

Whoever it ways saying it was sus to give up the town gravedigger card, sorry, but negative utility is not really a good thing to keep :/

Already commented on that. I was thinking of something else.

This game has not been a shining moment for me thus far.

[Chickadee]

What was you thinking of when you saw the role?

Grave Robber

[Chickadee]

I'll be out all day tomorrow. It's International Table Top day, and practically a religious holiday for me. Catch y'all Sunday.

[Chickadee]

So, I ran the numbers, and there is an approximately 0.2% chance of all four of you getting all Town.

Spoiler: Math Shenanigans

63 Town/104 Total = ~.60 chance an individual card is Town.
.6 * .6 = ~.36 chance one player draws two Town cards.
.36 * .6 = ~.22 chance one player draws three Town cards.
.22 * .22 = ~.05 chance two players draw three Town cards.
.05 * .22 = ~.01 chance three players draw three Town cards.
.01 * .22 = ~.002 chance four players draw three Town cards.

While this is still technically possible, I'm confident in saying at LEAST one of you is lying so far. And that doesn't even take into account that each card can only be drawn once, so the pool of Town cards shrinks as you go.

WE SHOULD LYNCH FROM THOSE 4 PEOPLE!!!

it's wayyy easier to lynch if ya know scum is in a group of 4!!!!

I'm inclined to agree with this. At the very least, These 4 people are on my watch list. I still don't like Rat digging for info though.

Riley, what are your thoughts on Rat? Specifically his #69

Hey guys, nice to see we're getting right into things.

Acting pro-town is not LAMIST. LAMIST usually implies a lack of content except to claim Town. Ircher is probably 3p.

Now then. I want to know the ALIGNMENTS of all three of everyone's cards. Mine were two aliens and one Town.

[Chickadee]

Help me understand the mason stuff.
Can there only be one Mason? If there are more, can Masons have different aligments but still have a private talk together?

Mason, traditionally is a neighbor who is confirmed Town to all other masons in the masonry. There can be any number.

In this game, due to the nature of blending alignment/role from two cards, masons do not have that Town confirmation, and are functionally no different from a regular neighborhood.

Masons do not have to be confirmed town. In fact, I've seen it more frequently that one mason is town, and one is not. And there can be more than one set of masons.

Even if someone else came in to counterclaim masons with someone else, I wouldn't immediately assume McMenno is lying.

[Chickadee]

Think what you want. It was a genuine mistake. I read through too quickly.

Yet you had time to go back and quote a post from page 1 in 106?

True story, and a bit sloppy but here's how that played out:

I went to quote that and had it up, and then left to do something else, not game related. Like literally walked away from my computer. Came back, went to do something on my computer, so I opened another tab. Posted my first post. Then I found the other tab...and figured I'd post that too.

Probably not my shining moment.

Not buying it. Everything after the third sentence makes me think you're bullshitting.

HEY!!! UZI!! that makes no senes!!!!! if chicky was scum, why would she sneakily not notice a comment? SHE HAS NO REASON TO!!! *boops you hard* That's totally made up!!!

Why wouldn't she? It's a classic cop out.

The way the word found is used in that sentence as well as how the sentence is worded implies that it was a struggle to find the tab. I don't buy that unless she claims to have had 20 tabs opened. But I know Chi, and that's not like her.

You don't know meeee!

Ok you do.

But I'm not scum. Sorry you don't believe me.

[Chickadee]

Help me understand the mason stuff.
Can there only be one Mason? If there are more, can Masons have different aligments but still have a private talk together?

Mason, traditionally is a neighbor who is confirmed Town to all other masons in the masonry. There can be any number.

In this game, due to the nature of blending alignment/role from two cards, masons do not have that Town confirmation, and are functionally no different from a regular neighborhood.

Masons do not have to be confirmed town. In fact, I've seen it more frequently that one mason is town, and one is not. And there can be more than one set of masons.

Even if someone else came in to counterclaim masons with someone else, I wouldn't immediately assume McMenno is lying.

In a normal game, yes Masons are confirmed Town. That's what separates a Mason from a Neighbor. This game is one of the few in which that isn't true.

As for multiple mason groups,

how exactly do you think that would be determined in an indefinite setup like this?

Also, the Mafia Ascetic Mason description specifically states that it would be a part of Any mason group. Meaning even if Jerry does have some undisclosed method of splitting up the masons, McMenno would be in all of them.

The key word here is indefinite. There's so many ways things could go.

But that is a good point about being part of all mason groups.

[Chickadee]

If such a world exists where you aren't scum, who is then and why?

Rat - fishing for info with the alignments. It doesn't sit right with me.



All claiming to have only drawn town cards:
Rauth
Vanilla
Ircher

At LEAST one of them is lying. The odds of all of them drawing all town cards is very slim. We've talked about this. They're on my watch list.

[Chickadee]

Why shouldn't I be asking about alignments?
It's vague enough that the really strong PRs remain undercover, but there's plenty of reads to be gathered from how people answer that question.

If such a world exists where you aren't scum, who is then and why?

Rat - fishing for info with the alignments. It doesn't sit right with me.



All claiming to have only drawn town cards:
Rauth
Vanilla
Ircher

At LEAST one of them is lying. The odds of all of them drawing all town cards is very slim. We've talked about this. They're on my watch list.

Looks to me like my "fishing for info" is serving its purpose just fine. So why doesn't it sit right with you?

Also you left Gerry off that list. Any particular reason why?

Ah, yea, seems I did. Gerry should be on that list as well.

Honestly forgot Gerry was in this game when making that list. Should have double checked.

I went back and ISO'd though. I would even put him in one of my top scum reads.

[Chickadee]

@Rat, this is what's standing out to me as far as Gerry stands. Can you tell me why you town pinged him?

Snarky, Tiphaine, LUV, and Gerry.

You've all discarded Town roles with a negative utility ability.
It seems to me like neg utility cards would be ideal for taking the alignment, then taking a better ability.

It's not anything damning, of course, but... interesting to note.

well yes, its a bad role lol. honestly i'd choose mafia over town anyway. but i got stuck with 3 town cards and that was the worst

Admits he'd choose mafia over town, but conveniently did not have the choice. Doesn't sit right with me.

Since Radical decided to out me, I drew the following cards:

1) VT
2) Town 1-Shot Commuter
3) Town Compulsive Vigilante

lol

Maybe Gerry finds this amusing because he knows the probability of at least one of the people claiming all town lying? Perhaps he finds it funny, because he's lying about it.

Do you consider being scum as 'fun'?

i do :p

Could just be an honest answer to a simple question that has no bearing on this game. But it could also be a cheeky soft claim that no one is willing to hook onto?

so there could be literally 2 mafia right now?

Seems like gerry is trying to undersell the numbers on a scum team. Although with multi ball it's entirely possible that there are only 2 mafia right now. Who knows how many other people in other factions.

[Chickadee]

Well, I don't think scum in this type of game would admit to enjoying scumplay.

I'm aware that gets WIFOMy, but I know that when I'm scum I don't like to say incriminating things like that. Especially not without being asked

He was asked. It's even quoted there.


And I think Gerry's play style is spammy enough that most people would shrug it off.

For instance, if I had made the post saying that playing mafia is fun, I think people would be questioning it.

[Chickadee]

If such a world exists where you aren't scum, who is then and why?

Rat - fishing for info with the alignments. It doesn't sit right with me.



All claiming to have only drawn town cards:
Rauth
Vanilla
Ircher

At LEAST one of them is lying. The odds of all of them drawing all town cards is very slim. We've talked about this. They're on my watch list.

Wrong, please stop.

Just because something is unlikely doesn't mean it's impossible.

Alright, but you realize this is a game of psychological manipulation. To me, that makes the odds of that many people telling the truth even lower. I'm not saying everyone on that list is scum, I'm saying that list is a good list to watch.

[Chickadee]

Alright, but you realize this is a game of psychological manipulation.

All of your posts feel, to me, like you are trying to be psychologically manipulative.

We're playing a game of mafia.

[Chickadee]

[Chickadee]

Ahem.
Questions anyone?

Sorry I've forgotten people along the way. It happens sometimes.

I did address your question. I didn't like that you were fishing for info. And it seems like not many other people did either, since people aren't jumping at the chance to give you the info.

I do know what a mason is. Just telling you my experience with masons.

My comment to LUV was not saying his assessment was correct. I was saying he's reading me wrong. The part where I said "Ok you do." was meant to be aimed at him personally.

And I agree, town typically does not need to rely on manipulation. But you can't deny that this is a game rooted in psychological manipulation. I never said I was using it, just that the game employs it.


I think you're reading way too much into what I'm saying, looking for things you want to be there.

[Chickadee]

I'm even willing to
UNVOTE:

because I think this is a case of TvT

[Chickadee]

I asked WHY the info I'm fishing for is scummy.
And yes, this is a game of manipulation but what bothers me is that when Sly said you seemed manipulative,

your response read as acknowledging that you were attempting to manipulate.

I will match your unvote until we get this sorted out however.
UNVOTE:

Not my intention regarding the bolded.


I guess I'll try to explain better. Mostly, it doesn't sit right with me that you asked everyone for this information, but didn't offer it up yourself.




I read the rest of your ISO and I'm inclined to think you're town. I was too focused on that one bit. And I think you're onto something suspecting Ircher.

[Chickadee]

I asked WHY the info I'm fishing for is scummy.
And yes, this is a game of manipulation but what bothers me is that when Sly said you seemed manipulative,

your response read as acknowledging that you were attempting to manipulate.

I will match your unvote until we get this sorted out however.
UNVOTE:

Not my intention regarding the bolded.


I guess I'll try to explain better. Mostly, it doesn't sit right with me that you asked everyone for this information, but didn't offer it up yourself.




I read the rest of your ISO and I'm inclined to think you're town. I was too focused on that one bit. And I think you're onto something suspecting Ircher.

you said you think i'm scum, but haven't voted me yet, i don't think. why?

My vote has been on Radical Rat this whole time. I just unvoted him.

Would you like me to vote you?

I just haven't felt the need yet. I'd really like some other people in the game to show up, so I can get better reads on everyone. Until then, anything I do is just going to be nitpicking over all the same information we already have.

[Chickadee]

Hey guys, nice to see we're getting right into things.

Acting pro-town is not LAMIST. LAMIST usually implies a lack of content except to claim Town. Ircher is probably 3p.

Now then. I want to know the ALIGNMENTS of all three of everyone's cards.

Mine were two aliens and one Town.

Didn't offer it up myself, eh?
I'm going to have to ask you to read more carefully from here on out, but you're making a lot more sense now at least.

Back to Ircher it is then.
VOTE: Ircher

I can do an ISO run if anyone needs it but the short version is:
Compulsive Vig + Death threats based on OMGUS = Up to no good

Ah..I really don't know why I'm missing so much this game. It's really not like me.



Tiphane's vote seems very opportunistic to me as well. However, I still think think it's worth sticking with Ircher for now.

VOTE: Ircher

[Chickadee]

And since you offered up your information, I was given town, SK, and werewolf alignment cards.

[Chickadee]

And now, let's talk about this.

We are most likely playing multiball right now.
What this means is that it isn't a clear-cut Town vs. Scum game. The scumteams and third parties are also in competition with each other, and this can benefit Town greatly.
Why try to fight all the scum at once when you can let them kill each other and pick off the rest?
And for the scum out there in the audience, would you prefer to be in lategame with a disorganized and paranoid Town trying desperately to lynch you, or against a coordinated team that won't care about your defenses or claims, and will be after you both during the day and night?

It is mutually beneficial that before killing the Town, you first hunt the other scumteams.

It also means that scum pushing for a Town lynch can hit another scumteam instead, participating in this arrangement whether they meant to or not.

So yes. Sometimes I will vote with my scumreads, and I find their input useful, if not necessarily trustworthy.
This is why I kept my vote on Ircher despite being wary of Tiphaine.

In Chickadee's case, I am still not confident that she's Town, but I do Want to trust her. I appreciate being able to discuss things civily and work out the misunderstandings we had, rather than it turning into a mutual OMGUS tunnel. I'm not quite sure how to read her at the moment, but I do believe we can be more productive working together and lynching someone scarier.

Savvy?

(Sorry about the wall btw)

I'll also add that the only way town has a chance to make it out alive in a multi ball game is to work together. Everyone needs to be posting, everyone needs to be talking to each other. It doesn't do town any good if anyone tries to quarterback the whole game, or if anyone lets someone quarterback the whole game. Let's be a good town.


Uzi, remove your vote from me.

[Chickadee]

Radical Rat and Chickadee, could you please tell me what the roles of your town cards were? Since you obviously aren't using them...

My town card was Town Vig. I used this card for alignment.


Ircher, I know thats different than your claim of getting the compulsive vig cards, but regardless, thoughts?

[Chickadee]

Why is everyone just now speculating that this game is multi ball? I went into the game expecting multi ball. This isn't news. It just feels like y'all are trying to talk about something to make it seem like you're talking about something.

[Chickadee]

McMenno
Radical Rat
Lil Uzi Vert

Town

[Chickadee]

McMenno
Radical Rat
Lil Uzi Vert

Town

Could you give us your scumreads too?

They're coming. Working on getting those a bit more solid. As it stands, with so much lurking, there's a lot of null.

[Chickadee]

TiphaineDeath - that naked vote doesn't sit right with me.
Ircher - biggest scum read so far. This has been talked about, so I won't go into it.
gerryoat - still off to me. The way he casually talks about potentially picking mafia cards is pinging me.



Need more:
1 Shot Vanilla Town
SnarkySnowman
SlySly - most of their posts seem to be trying to understand the setup and logistics. Except for the last one where they vote me. Not enough to say scum read, but something isn't quite right here.
Riley Cake
Necta
Rautherdir - Leaning town, but still need more to flesh out a read.

[Chickadee]

gerryoat - still off to me. The way he casually talks about potentially picking mafia cards is pinging me.

ok

VOTE: Chickadee

this is l2 or l1 idk

L-2


And wow, you didn't even bother to check?

[Chickadee]

I'm a double protective townie. I didn't want to claim, because it takes a huge target off my back in the night. I will not be claiming which faction or factions I chose to be protected from.

[Chickadee]

I'm a double protective townie. I didn't want to claim, because it takes a huge target off my back in the night. I will not be claiming which faction or factions I chose to be protected from.

Bullshit. You would be playing to draw a night kill.

Well, that was my initial plan. But now I'm at L-2. So...

My game play early in the day just wasn't up to par.

[Chickadee]

Uzi, you know my scum game is good. Do you really see me being this sloppy if I were scum. Would I really try to fake claim something like that after how I've been playing so far?

[Chickadee]

That... Explains quite a bit actually.

Chickadee, what is your prior experience with Mafia?

8 years on another site.

[Chickadee]

VOTE: Chick

That readslist pinged me.

L-1

What specifically pinged you about my D1 reads?

[Chickadee]

[Chickadee]

It's been a pleasure. Hope y'all learn something when I flip town.

For what it's worth, I feel pretty good about my town reads.