Mini 1904: Rad Idea Mafia! (Endgame!)

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

Town private investigator only finds cult. There are 2 cult roles in the entire thing so of course I'm not taking that over what else was offered.

VOTE: No Lynch

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

@MOD - V/LA on weekends. Starting this 1 a day early due to visiting family. Shouldn't effect the posting requirement though.

Noted. ~Mod

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

So Chickadee, why does town Gravedigger ping your interest? Would you consider that a good role to get rid of? Because it's as useful as town miller but that wasn't in your list.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

Werewolf and aliens are their own factions. WW works the same as Mafia (correct if I'm wrong) and Aliens can only kill on night 2 onwards (right?)

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

McMenno = Two-shot Bulletproof Survivor - survives 2 night kills
Rautherdir = Town Ascetic - immune to night actions
1 Shot Vanilla Town = Town Private Investigator - finds cult
Radical Rat = Alien Prober - Target Jailkept, plus you get random investigation of Town/Mafia/Werewolf/Alien/Replicant/SK/Cult, excepting your own alignment
SnarkySnowman = Town Gravedigger - shown as visiting night death targets
TiphaineDeath = Town Innocent Child - mod confirmed
IAlwaysWinSometimes = Alien Doppelganger - Investigative actions act as if they were player of your choice
Ircher = Town One-shot Commuter - 1 shot cannot be targeted at night
Chickadee = Werewolf - WW goon
Lil Uzi Vert = Town Miller - investigations show as Mafia
Necta = Replicant Bloodsucker - Treestump target starting next Day, faction cannot perform factional kill same night
gerryoat = Watchlisted Townie - investigates SK
SlySly = Werewolf Hooker - roleblocker

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... did=125666

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

Werewolf and aliens are their own factions. WW works the same as Mafia (correct if I'm wrong) and Aliens can only kill on night 2 onwards (right?)

Mafia and Werewolf are group scum factions that share a nightly factional kill.
Aliens share a 1-shot factional kill as well as another ability. Like Mafia, they are a group scum faction.

There's a wiki page btw.

Ah that's it.
I was phone posting and haven't been in a game with Aliens for so long.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

Also, I like the IC throw away.
In this setup it's a useless role which just doesn't help town at all. With the expectation of multiple kills or manipulations to the lack of numbers which normally fall on town, it just gives scum information on easier targets. Odds favour scum in taking an IC role instead of an investigation / healing or pro active role.
And discarding instead of taking the actual align as IC just means scum won't be claiming that role (which is unlikely as align or role) anyway.

Therefore I see it as a more pro town than hinder to town discard.

The Alien discards are NAI for me and WW discards are probably the most pro town discard out of everyone, even more so the Hooker role.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

Also the 2 shot Bulletproof is pro town and hinders 3rd party and Aliens to discard but favours Mafia or WW to discard for an active ability. Although McMenno claimed Ascetic so it's questionable to if a Mafia or WW would discard BP for Ascetic? But it is McMenno I guess.

Overall town discards none are too bad for town, and the strongest 2 (even though shouldn't make it into the top half if town roles) are my discard and Gerrys. So at least town have an opportunity for some strong roles here.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

Why do people find roleblockers as bad for town?

I wouldn't say it's bad for town but it benefits scum 10x more.
As scum you won't be preventing a team mate from doing something if you have any... As town your 1 move can cost the game and you'll most likely be pushed as scum for it because, hey, meta.
So the role itself isn't bad for town but picking it over most other possibilities normally works out worse for town in these games.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

Also (correct me if wrong as again, on phone) if McMenno is Ascetic then he has to be the Mafia Ascetic making him even more pro town.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

Shut up LUV, you're breaking my heart!

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

Why does it make zero sense?
There's 2 Ascetic roles if I looked correctly.
1 town 1 Mafia. Therefore McMenno has Mafia Ascetic as role, discarded 2 shot BP and ?? As align.
Tell me how that's not pro town over everyone else right now.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

Good luck, keep me posted on that.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

I'm just saying now I don't get lynched as town.
And I'm pretty provable on my align / role. So by all means keep this up.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

Great work. You can sit in the corner while I await real progression from Chickadee.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

Also (correct me if wrong as again, on phone) if McMenno is Ascetic then he has to be the Mafia Ascetic making him even more pro town.

How is being mafia pro town?

Keep in mind your role is not your alignment.
Mafia Ascetic is the role not the alignment.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

It's hard to believe there is no lyncher or Jester role.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

You get 3 cards.
1 = align. This is town cop / Mafia Goon etc. Whatever align that pick has is your alignment. If you take town cop, you are town but not a Cop.
1 = power. You ignore the alignment unless it counts as bastard (can't have scum IC or Mason) so if you pick Mafia Ascetic you only take the Ascetic part. If you take town cop you only take the cop part.
1 = discard

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

can't have scum IC or Mason

After re reading I retract this part.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

I'm going by information we have. From the discards themselves the WW are the most probable pro town.
Anyone could have received 2 Mafia roles as well as their discard for example, that's irrelevant in that argument.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

Ircher I don't care that you're calling me scum but stop trying to just be a troll with the same trash comment.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

I received 3 town roles.
But given if I confirm them before others both of my hidden roles are unique.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

Ircher doesn't add up to be that role and give it away.
He would of read the role list before posting that 100%.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

Since Radical decided to out me, I drew the following cards:

1) VT
2) Town 1-Shot Commuter
3) Town Compulsive Vigilante

This is fake.
I just don't know if in a scum way or a troll way.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

I know that I for one drew all cards of the same alignment.
Also, you can't get town compulsive vig without also having another town card to serve as the alignment

You can be any alignment and have the vig power but Ircher is lying anyway.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

I did, but its like a 104 roles. I read last night and kinda forgot the list this afternoon.

Pedit: Elaborate.

If this was someone else I would consider it but as it's you I don't buy it.
There's only 1 role I see fitting your play.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

And if this is solely on the fact that I tunneled you in the beginning, just stop. I was trying to generate reactions.

I mean as a whole. What you are doing so far fits an underdog.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

If he's scum he's not scum for calling you out on that role, it's anti town. However, I can't see you as scum doing that either. I don't believe you didn't realise the role list and commented on that, even more so as scum.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

I didn't quite put it the same way as the others did. I never outright said I drew three town roles.

Rautherdir = Town Ascetic

You discarded a town role. If you received three of the same align then it was town.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

Noted that you tried to defend Chickadee there though.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

Do you consider being scum as 'fun'?

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

What was you thinking of when you saw the role?

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

What was you thinking of when you saw the role?

Grave Robber

So why did you think it was a strong role?
I thought you said you was thinking a different role?

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

Ah miss read.
Explains that then. Then I'm happy with chickadee's original post about the roles.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

The fact I can't see Sly has played this setup or 1 like it before (skimmed played games) I believe the confusion claim. My first game it took a few explanations from the mod for me to understand.
I do however believe that Sly had a Mafia role... so sly, did you use it on your alignment or your power?

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

McMenno isn't a mason?

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

Oh yeah. Late night.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

VOTE: SnarkySnowman
I'm okay with pushing the pressure here.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

Well, I don't think scum in this type of game would admit to enjoying scumplay.

Of course they would. It's NAI.
Why is Gerry town?

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

And I disagree that your alignment preference is NAI in a game where you choose your alignment.
I should clarify that it's a rather weak townread, but it's not a decision I would make as scum, and that's all I have to go on since I've not played with him before. So I get town vibes.

I like town over anything but again, it's NAI. Just like someone saying they like Mafia, it's situational not confirmation.
What gives town vibes about him? If it's only gut, how do you expect to argue Chickadee's read on him?

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

But he didn't say he prefers scum he said he likes scum right?
The meaning is very different.
I can see scum saying they like being scum, I can see town saying it too.

Overall though I agree with you on the Gerry read. I'll be doing better iso reads tomorrow though.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

Tiphane's vote seems very opportunistic to me as well. However, I still think it's worth sticking with Ircher for now.

VOTE: Ircher

I really can't see Ircher as scum here. I have reason to believe his role choice was actually his alignment ability and we can work on proving that tonight. And RR isn't flipping anything but town imo.

I don't agree that it was TvT with you 2, and out of the players I favour my vote on you right now.

I can't understand how Tiphane has an opportunity vote, yet you are voting where he is.
In fact, your vote can look as an opportunity. You seem to have dropped Gerry off the target list since he doesn't seem appealing to anyone else, but Ircher looks like a nice target for you to flow with.

VOTE: Chickadee

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

Sorry, I forgot to say my V/LA for weekends.
Give me an hour or so to read.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

VOTE: Rautherdir

LosThis my save but I don't think this is the best place to vote. While I redo. Howcome?

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

So 1 thing with RR, he distances himself from scum members. 71
73. The first post is a vote on Snarky, for a policy vote if anything. Then in the second post, RR drops 4 names, Snarky (again) Gerry, LUV and Tiphaine.
He says about the cards they discarded but says "It's not anything damning, of course, but... interesting to note."
In that one post, he's brought up the situation and ended the discussion in 1 go. IMO, given how RR likes to distance himself from team mates, I can easily see him throwing a team mate in this section.

For reasons, I'm going to look past Gerry, but I'm also not going to push someone as scum for this reason alone.

141 concerning about the masons just tells me that RR has more knowledge on the masons than he's playing on. If you're a mason, and town, then strongly consider that if there are 1 or more members, that information was being fed back to RR (and the rest of scum).

150 slightly counters my argument of trying to distance, and instead points to a direction to where these are all non Mafia.

164 - This is pretty interesting to me.

I'm inclinde to think of 218 as a non Mafia clear on Rauth. This isn't distancing in my eyes but trying to cause focus there.
233 - I'd go with this. I wouldn't even consider this as pocketing Gerry, but just trying to get more against Chickadee at this point.

248gives us more information to this point than any other of RR's posts. It's when we actually have a reads list to go back to.

As of right now, I'm comfortable with lynching within

Ircher, Rauth, and Chickadee.

Null on Sly, Tiphaine and Snarky.
Light Town vibes from Gerry, LUV, and Necta
I will actively oppose a lynch of 1SVT,

Riley, McMenno

, and of course myself.

From this alone, I've highlighted the people I wouldn't consider as his buddy(s).
This leaves in the pool of higher possibilities - LUV, Necta Sly, Tip and Snarky.
If there's 1 Mafia left (consider that there could be no more) then I'm very confident in it being between Sly, Tip and Snarky. I need to explain this more into detail which I will, after I've checked everyone's ISO and finished RR's.

This is where I'm up to but I need to discuss more. I'm just short on time so take this as a preview and my apologies for being so slack.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

I don't think you are scum?
Unless that's aimed else where?
I'm going to make a better post with time though.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

I'm willing to call vanilla town just because he put two dead-guys in his lynch-pool xD.

No I didn't.
When does Green ever mean lynch?

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

As of right now, I'm comfortable with lynching within Ircher, Rauth, and Chickadee.
Null on Sly, Tiphaine and Snarky.
Light Town vibes from Gerry, LUV, and Necta
I will actively oppose a lynch of 1SVT, Riley, McMenno, and of course myself.

Sorry for the confusion, this is why I should read before posting.
This is what RR said, not my views.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

Wait a moment. What is the argument for me being scum again?

You essentially claimed scum earlier and you haven't been scum hunting.

If you mean the first time from Rauth then I must disagree here that he claimed scum or even came close to it. In fact it was only a town claim with what looks to be forgetting the revealed role.
If it's a different post refresh my memory.

Also, lack of effort / scum hunting doesn't mean scum. Anti town yes, but that doesn't warrant a lynch day 2.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

Yeah that made me sad...
But that's not everything I've been looking at.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

I don't understand what you're referring to in the first part of this post.

As for your second point, yes, effort is NAI. However I'm not judging the quality of his scum hunting, I'm concerned about where is it and why is he doing other things that appear like he's scum hunting. The times he's been active, he has seemed more focused on helping fuel the setup speculation that dominated a majority of the early game rather than trying to sort people.

You can jazz it up, but regardless you have him as scum here for either of the following reasons.

-Claiming to not have a town card - This is incorrect, and actually claimed to have all 3 of the same alignment. If you read into this correctly, you would have an opinion of town on this information alone.
-Not scum hunting - You said yourself this is NAI so that's already out of the window.
-Setup spec - This again is NAI. You find this from either side.

Now, you seem to be pushing as a combo of not scum hunting and doing spec setup. But then Why Rauth over players like Tip, Snarky and Riley??
And even myself, I spent most of day 1 setup spec and I haven't provided any scum hunting today to your knowledge.

Going by your argument, the reasons in question actually push Rauth more as town than anything, so I think you need more than that.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

Okay we wait for him to see what was said in mason chat

Mason chat was actually scum chat.

And given that LUV was mason he would have known there are no other masons so that's a safe claim from McMenno.
I agree with McMenno lynch.

VOTE: McMenno

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

L1 and all.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

No.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

Sonia appears to be all good, not a lynch for today. Snarky is probably scum and just slipped that there's 2 people in her faction.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

Do we want a massclaim?

I think it would be best.
I'm happy to go first with actions.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

Sure.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

I'm not a vigilanté

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

I'M NOT A VIG!!! I WOULDN'T HAVE SHOT GERRY IF I WAS :O HE WAS NICE!!!!

What makes you think that Gerry was the Vigo shot if there was one?

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

Unvote, we're not rushing the day.
A mass claim is still in order and if anything those 2 votes are scummy af.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

b) I targeted someone from another game night one

I hope that this is true! xD

Okay, so my other 2 cards were;
Role - Town Parrot
Alignment - Town Mason One-Shot Global Private Topic Messenger

Night 1 I targeted Jerry and received a 1 shot private Private Investigator. Reason I said Gerry was good because of the role he took (and obviously didn't kill anyone).
Night 2 I targeted Sonia, and used my 1 shot on Sly which came back as not cult (obviously). Not kill from Sonia, reason I say to look elsewhere, but by no means is clear.

Next person, go.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

Then how did I get the 1 shot then?

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

I do what they do as Parrot. So if Gerry killed, I would have killed him, if he used his power on himself, then I use it on myself.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

Snarky and Tip are currently top of my list.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

Still want to hear it.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

@Sonia - what was your align card?

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

If you don't claim today I'm going to be actively pushing for your lynch today.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

It's possible that by tomorrow there can be only 1 town left, and that's only going by if there are 4 town left.
There's also a possibility that there are less than 4 town meaning there could be no town tomorrow.

I think everyone here needs to claim fully. Personally I think Sonia should have to as well, due to the above fact.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

I don't buy that Snarky has one of those roles.

What was your align card, Snarky?

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

So why did you think VT was better than Grave Digger for align?

Pedit - Yeah, I don't believe you to be town 1 bit.
Considering you even tried to lie about being on that list.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

So 3 have 3 people left to claim.

@Rautherdir - 3rd card?

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

Align doesn't matter 1svt. I had 2 town cards and one non-town card. My choices if I went non-town for alignment were vanilla or gravedigger, both of which sucked.

Well it does matter actually. The less information scum have the better.
If you have a role which is in the list multiple times to a role that is only there once, then it is better to keep the unique role hidden, wouldn't you agree?

Lets see how many claim VT as their align card though.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

My cards were
Town Seer
Town FBI Agent
Town Ascetic

I believe Rauth to be town btw.
Unless anyone tries to call him out for his cards, I wouldn't agree to a lynch here today.
The small amount of discussion involving Rauth/LUV tells me that he's not WW regardless.
And I believe the whole situation of all 3 cards same align on day 1.

So as of right now, Rauth and Sonia are not the lynch options for today.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

I am not on the list, but feel I should be, eh whatever, 2 shto bullet proof.

I thought this was snarky my bad.
Okay, and what was your 3rd card?

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

So time to go over ISO's.
I'm going to start with my top scum read and work it down, that way I can be biased in my reading (that's a joke, which I expect you to laugh at).
123Tip is talking about IC being a boring role and there for not taking it.

# Awaiting mod confirmation before comment

So the first mention of players is in 136 where Tip wants to lynch Ircher even if town. I don't think that was a terrible thought to have due to Ircher's role, but I think he worded it wrong regardless of align. He mentions about having roles that could be seen as SK or scum, so I fully believe the BP claim. Talks about 105 being a scum post, but doesn't act on it and finishes with LUV being town (who we know was WW). LUV wasn't at risk early on, so to me that read looks genuine. However, I'm just about to check Tip's scum games to see how he presents himself with his scum buddies.

viewtopic.php?f=84&t=61837
So in this game, he distances himself from his scum buddy.

viewtopic.php?f=56&t=55485
Again, no early conversation on putting his team mates as town, and even distancing himself from team mates.

So at least we know that Tip is very unlikely to hit WW here.

However, 136 also says that he has been scum a lot recently. Checking through his games, this appears to be an out right lie, to probably try and distract away from that. Keeping in mind he has 2 completed scum games, 1 being in 2014 (correct me if I missed any completed games, Tip). It's an odd comment to make when you have hit a lot of town roles in recent games.

So getting ion with the ISO - 186 not a lot, says that previous posts were bad again, but not a lot to back it. Says that Radical looks town, but we know that Radical is self aligned so that matters not.
285 I don't see too much against the vote. and it did shortly end up with 295 to unvote. But I don't like how he wants to recheck Chickadee and Radical here, considering Chickadee doesn't look good to him anyway. Surely someone that posts badly should already be looked at.

I like 299 in favour to a town minded process. Not really much else to say on it. 315 contradicts this though as he's giving reason rather than his opposed reason, he was bored and had no reads. 321 just shows more that it was a legit scum read, rather than not having a read and randomly attacking.

415 I didn't like at the time, and I don't like now. In what universe do scum pay attention more than town? It's split even. Town make genuine mistakes, scum are looking for reasons to post and scum read therefore miss basic notes. The fact he was ready to do this just tells me he didn't want to bash heads.

447 and 458 is pushing on Sonia, because it looks like an easy push at that stage. There's no back with 447 and if I didn't feel strongly with your early town read being genuine, I'd suspect a WW align here. The reasoning of the vote looks to be forced, and with minimal effort.

One thing that I find scum do is talk negative to town lynches, and 539 could easily be a seen as pushing back to the negative to where people pushed. For the overall argument though it's NAI but I'll let my biased thoughs kick in here and say that this post was scum motivated.

Rest is more or less filler until 559. Looking at Tip's other games, he has a habbit or going AFK, or replacing out, so sure that seems legit. However, he chucks a vote down in 563 from a weak reasoning, putting a player to L2 in what is MYLO (yes, it is, not that it may be) and knowing that at any point he cannot retract or discuss the vote. That's not a town mindset.

So we know that Tip is a 2 shot BP, and took this over IC. He claims that IC was boring, but what is fun about 2 shot BP?

So @Tip - This is what I need from you. What 2 shot BP was it? You have 88 2 shot BP Survivor or 91 2 shot BP SK.
What was your align card
Did I miss any scum games as of recent, and if so which ones?

Please note I will be doing the other ISO's, so a lot could change depending on how theirs result.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

123Tip is talking about IC being a boring role and there for not taking it. # Awaiting mod confirmation before comment

Okay, so going by this. I wanted actual confirmation that IC can only be town as I thought this was bastard, it's not bastard. So this means that Tip couldn't take the role if taking taking a scum role for me. Although I don't disagree with an IC throw away, taking BP over IC is terrible and the reasoning just doesn't match up.
I'm sure the 3rd card (align) can give some light on it though.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

So snarky.

I'm not sure how to go through this, once again it's pretty abysmal from snarky.

First entrance post is just talking about the discard 143.
next actual post in the game is 543 where snarky wants a mass claim. As I already stated, Snarky claims there to be 2 Mafia and a 3rd party. This just seems like a slip and that snarky is Mafia with someone else. Otherwise why would it not be 2+ scum or whatever? Even asks for thoughts and order of the claim.
544 Still up for a mass claim. Changes Mafia to WW and 3rd party but then also refers to them as scum. Doesn't think for a second there could be a vigilante, which tells me that she was involved in one of the kills. Could be telling the truth here, and mistook 2 scum being left. But I can't see anything to suggest this mistake. Either way, snarky is going to be Mafia or WW, but deciding which one is crucial to how I vote.
562 voting Riley even though a mass claim was suggested by snarky and in 594 is saying that she shouldn't claim... When it was her original suggestion.

As I said, this ISO is abysmal but what I get from it - Snarky doesn't want to reveal information, but looked happy to bait it at the start of the day. Slipped at being scum and had the mind set that there is another killer.

@Snarky - All I want from you is your role.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

So Riley / Ialwayswinsometimes.

Ialways had nothing of interest to the game, not from what I can see.
210 Defends chickadee to a level against LUV.
212 lynching in accordance to possibility. Not a bad thought in early stages. Up to here Riley is mostly NAI but 215 kind of rules out any information before hand apart from actual reads.
345 and 347 are directed and LUV. I'm going to look into Riley's games to see how he reacts to team mates.

viewtopic.php?f=84&t=70478
No interaction with his scum buddy at all (only 11 posts before a lynch).

I can't find any other scum games.

560 needs explaining as this comment isn't standard from a town point of view. It also goes with 506 where Riley wanted slysly lynched for the shot.

Overall, depending on the rest of claims, I don't want to lynch here over snarky or Tip.

@Riley - Please give your other 2 roles and what your role is, plus any night actions you might have

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

I was happy to claim but my role is on the list of "don't claim please"

Well I disagree with the list.
I think everyone not claiming here is more beneficial for scum to hide.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

Sonia / Necta

Necta is NAI for me.

So with Sonia, I'm just going to start from where her ISO matters. 446 scum wouldn't push or antagonise a shot on them so easily... This is with the assumption that BP only works at night (correct me if it covers day vigs too 452 makes me think correctly too).
459 Keeps it up. Could be considered to play the fear card by calling it a scum claim, but the risk to reward situation is too high.
515 already states information on Sonia's role. Unless it's a bluff.

So this is what we have on Sonia - I visited last night, there were 2 kills last night and Sonia didn't die. This means that Sonia is either BP or isn't the killer. It's plausible that 446 was with thought of being BP, but Sonia wouldn't 1 - give away herr role so easily as scum and 2 - have a different understanding that the normal to a role like BP. Therefore with it being summed up, I actually strongly think that Sonia is town.

@Sonia - given that it's MyLo, do you honestly believe it's better to not give up your role?
I think if you do claim, it has to be last though.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

@Mod - Can we know the align cards of the dead players?

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

I'll do Rautherdir tomorrow or whatever as I'm tired, but my mind is already made up.

Right now we have (I'll update in accordance)

1SVT
Role - PArrot
Align - Mason - PT message 1 shot
Discard - Private Invest


Rautherdir
Role - Town Seer
Align - Town FBI Agent
Discard - Town Ascetic

Snarky
Role - ???
Align - VT
Discard - Gravedigger

Tip
Role - 2 shot BP
Align - ??
Discard - IC

Sonia
Role - ??
Align - ??
Discard - Replicant Bloodsucker

Riley
Role - ??
Align - ??
Discard - Alien Doppelganger

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

Riley, you're up!
Snarky, you're up!

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

HI EVERYONE!!!! I CAN'T CLAIM COS THE MOD DIDN'T GIVE ME MY CARDS :C

Then get the cards from the mod.
The mod replies pretty quickly so if you don't claim we can take it as refusing.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

So my opinion hasn't changed on Scum.
Although I believe Snarky on the PGO I don't believe the VT part and therefore think that Snarky is still Scum.

We have 2 options imo.

Lynch Tip, if not over I visit Snarky
Lynch Snarky if not over I visit Riley followed with a Tip Lynch if still not over.

Thoughts on this, Sonia?

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

1SVT
Role - Parrot
Align - Mason - PT message 1 shot
Discard - Private Invest

Rautherdir
Role - Town Seer
Align - Town FBI Agent
Discard - Town Ascetic

Snarky
Role - WW PGO
Align - VT
Discard - Gravedigger

Tip
Role - 2 shot BP
Align - Fruit Vendor
Discard - IC

Sonia
Role - ??
Align - VT
Discard - Replicant Bloodsucker

Riley
Role - Town Nurse
Align - Tentacled Towny
Discard - alien doppelganger

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

Why not Snarky?

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

I think TIP will be the best bet today.
If anyone other than TIP objects can you say why?
Otherwise I think it's pretty agreeable.

As I already said... choosing BP over IC for the reason of IC is boring just doesn't match up to me. Considering that Fruit Vendor can easily be seen as more fun (however useless to town it is).

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

I object, because it will probably make the town lose, since I am town. But honestly that's all I got.

Also if anyone cares about meta I am much more of a powerhouse as scum xD.

I dunno, snarky hasn't really done anything that I noticed at all?

Can you discuss you being more power house? Because I linked 2 scum games of yours, and 1 of them fell short of power house by a large amount.

Okay, can you explain what Riley has done over snarky? Do you think the lack of participation could be seen as scummy from Snarky?

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

I'll give Sonia time to voice any concerns. Otherwise I'll put a vote down on TIP.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

Okay so the both votes on power roles thing was a pretty bad reason to suspect you, but my first point on you still stands Riley...

Tell me what opinions Snarky has had today (or even all game) and I'll say the opinions or involvement Riley has had today.

This is important to do considering your reason for a Riley Lynch is lack of participation / opinion today.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

Also Riley - Top 2 for Lynch? With reasons.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

Yeah, the only reason I chose to put Riley over Snarky was because Snarky's role explains the second night kill.

It doesn't mean it's set in stone, it also doesn't explain Snarky's alignment.
Ask yourself, what would Scum Snarky benefit with from the way the 3 cards were chosen and what would town Snarky benefit with?
If taking PGO is anything but NAI then go over it again.

What does town Riley gain from the picks and what does Scum Riley gain from the picks?

Then we can review the reasoning again because right now I don't think you're considering the negatives from Snarky correctly.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

Riley cake is terrible, and their last post is terrible and they should be lynched.

Sonia is also bad.

What was terrible about it? Did you think it was AtE?

I agree that the Sonia spot is bad but considering the only way that Sonia made a kill is by having BP as well, Sonia should be the last option as a Lynch for today.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

Gamma is scum.
Maria could have kept it going but this is scum Gamma. I know Gamma.

VOTE: Gamma

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

I don't think I've had a game where I've been playing with this account with 1SVT
Both times I remember were games I was hydraing for

I'm an alt.
Gamma is scum. Choo choo, jump on lads, and Snarky.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

No. I'm not.
Gamma is scum. Next stop, lynchville.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

You're not getting my alt.
Others will just need to trust me here.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

I will althunt your ass, I've althunted Vedith, and since you're using it as an argument I will not hesitate to make it public this time.

Okay.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

If you can work out my alt in a different way (Not in this game) that would be great. But post the results when you have them.
Otherwise you are cluttering up this game with useless spam while we wait for town to vote you.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

Then do it in less posts.
If you get my alt or if you don't will not change the fact that you're scum here and that I'm going to push your lynch.

You are trying to divert from my argument of you being scum by spamming with irrelevant posts.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

Also Gamma, I gather that you are claiming me as scum here.
How does this impact your view on TIP?

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

I was going by 694 where you have me second on scum. And with me calling you scum, I wanted to know if you changed your view with TIP.

I also want to say that although I know you are scum from meta, your catch up, your reason for scum reads, and your general interaction of responding to what has happened in the game is what stands out the most as scum.
The fact that Sonia/you are actually BP is what I had on my concern with visiting you last night and this slot not dying.

You stated that you would be looking at what roles were taken as alignment etc to discards, yet you have Snarky high on your list as town while keeping Gravedigger as the discard and using VT as the align.
What did you get from discards to cards taken in align as posted in 645 ?

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

My view on TP is the same with you calling me scum lol
I think Snarky is town since his claims make sense

In response tot his and 724.

I'm not saying that just calling you scum. But do you think that either me or TIP are scum, do you think we both are? I want to understand your thought process here.

Okay, so you believe the PGO claim. That's great. What makes you think that town would take PGO over scum?
And why does it make sense to reveal a unique role over a generic role?
By what you have said, it is better to have the role VT hidden to help scum claim this, over Graverobber which could be called out later game?

And can you explain to me what is fun about IC (With the assumtion of it not being boring, I came to fun)? I suspect that you found my case against TIP, took a snippet and misunderstood what I was saying.
By no means is IC fun (or non boring). The argument I was saying was, taking BP over IC for the fact that IC isn't fun, when BP has basically the same effect doesn't match up.

How is it though, you understand the reason for taking BP from your past body, and yet TIP taking BP is something that you dislike? Surely if you were town, you would be more open minded to TIP taking BP over everyone else.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

BTW there are 7 VT cards
For possible claim checks

You are correct... And there are align cards that we do not know of.
Could all be try, could be false, just because the possibility is there does not have an effect on what the truth is.
But it does go back to my comment, why give Scum information on what not to claim, when you can give a generic throw away and give scum that little bit less information?

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

IC is fun because you can get people to listen to you
BP doesn't have that same effect, in fact it's somewhat distrusted since it is viewed as an excuse for not being nightkilled
You do realize gravedigger is NOT graverobber right

I disagree. IC people always get lazy, put less effort in and end up getting killed. To me that doesn't sound like a boat ride around Oz.
Yes, I do realise what role we are talking about.
Did you understand what I said? I said it gives less information to scum. Gravedigger is a unique role. Why give a unique role for scum to cross of their "to claim" list when you can give VT?

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

Why would mafia claim Gravedigger

Because it's a town alignment card.
You do understand how this game works, right?

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

Yes
I've played this type of setup several times so I'm rather well versed in judging discards

Yet you can't grasp the concept that scum with less information is better for town...

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

I feel that decision wasn't made with information in mind

Regardless to what you feel. It was a bad choice.
Your comment was "Snarky makes complete sense and anyone who disagree is wrong." 724.
I am disagreeing. Tell me why I'm wrong.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

@Mod - normal weekend V/LA - due to the situation I will try to be involved, otherwise Lynch Gamma.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

Yeah waiting on Riley, Snarky and TIP to vote Gamma.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

We'll see.
You're scum here and I'm certain over it.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

In that case I hope the second is alien.

Lets remove Gamma first then.
Then we can work on any other scum left.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

Gamma says it's only meta, but I've already stated it isn't.
Gamma has scum all over it, and doesn't even know why they read TIP as scum other than "IC isn't boring".
Now I'm scum to Gamma because I am pushing him as scum, that's standard play by scum.
The catch up was fake and Gamma missed a whole chunk of the game. Gives a very weak reason for Snarky being town and can't even back it up.

Then goes for AtE. I know Gamma enough on top of how he has already played to know that this is scum him. Even on his home site he would have been lynched 10 x over for this.

And to top it all off "just have fun with your loss" - This is not a town comment to the situation we are in.
The fact that Gamma is acting like that tells me he either originally had 2 shot BP, or he has a partner.
Maybe he gave something away in 759, and I could see that in his panic.

Snarky, change your vote back to Gamma. I can guarantee you that we will be lynching scum with Gamma. And even if you're not town, this will benefit you.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

OH YOU KNOW MY HOMESITE?

Who doesn't?

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

You hate me because I know you're scum?

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

Wait why did you change your pronoun
Anyway I dislike you since you are being mean by not telling me what the meta is so I can have a shot at defending myself, then you attack me by saying my play is bad on my homesite, like you would know what it really is
Also thanks for that comment about the HS. Now I can use that to find your alt.

Well, lets start this off.
It's not a single game. It's knowledge of you.
I never once said that you play bad on your home site, and you know that I never. But people there can read you better than people here, and don't even try to deny that.
You would have been lynched in a second there.
And no problem, happy hunting.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

I don't know anything anymore. I don't really know how to sort this, and I am increasingly afraid that we are in MYLO, so there really is only one thing to do.
VOTE: No Lynch

No lynch is a terrible option here if MyLo. If there are 2 kills and both land on town, then town lose, simple as.
So if you think it's MyLo, stick to a lynch. I just strongly say to lynch Gamma.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

Rautherdir if you do that and 1SVT is a wolf they will just kill someone who won't vote me

Did you just slip up and confess to being Mafia?
I knew you were scum, but thanks for letting us know it's Mafia.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

No, it would be LYLO, wouldn't it. Great.

If this is in response to me, then no, it wouldn't.
It would be maximum 2 town out of 4 people. That's not LyLo, that's Loss.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

NO
I'm saying wolf since 1) it's actually a generic term and 2) I expect there to be wolves since one flipped

Mhmm.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

Lynch scum or lose, if there is two... Hah, no I just realized something.
Scum can't win.

Why not?
Let me give you an

example

here.

4 town 1 scum 1 scum
2 kills
2 town 1 scum 1 scum
lynch 1 scum
2 town 1 scum
1 kill
1 town 1 scum

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

Half of our players are NK proof.

Both could have lost BP, both could be the scum.
You think that TIP is scum.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

I did, but I'm not as sure anymore. If we have two scum, then Snarky's PGO is still active. Some of the bulletproof shots could have been used, but probably not all.

If there are 2 scum in TIP and Gamma, then why would scum kill Snarky? Snarky would be left until the end.
There's a good chance that Gamma lost his BP (I think Town Bulletproof is only one, right?) from my visit last night.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

Snarky makes complete sense and anyone who disagree is wrong.

Snarky is PGO?

This is scum not reading the game and just posting for the sake of it.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

And that was a scum claim.

You trying to lynch the parrot after I bring up my power again is the worrying thing here.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

I also want to point out, I said that BP would be the concern of Sonia before Gamma said the role.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

I'm keeping on you Gamma.
I am already 100% that you are scum.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

And what's your plan when I flip town?

You won't flip town.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

Hypothetically
Step back from your read and answer the question

You won't flip town. I am 100% sure so your question is pointless.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

Why would scum not just kill either me, you or Riley? 2 nights of no kill just wouldn't happen.
The no lynch is a terrible option.

Riley, Snarky, TIP - Make sure you vote Gamma here.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

Gamma is the lynch.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

If they kill they risk dying to your ability. If they are werewolves they risk getting caught by me.

We are no lynching today. We only have 3 days left anyways, and good luck getting everyone else to agree with you without giving solid proof.

Gamma is immune from my role. I'm not sure why you are defending Gamma so hard here.
Gamma is the lynch. I've already said non meta related issues, and the fact he said that Snarky makes sense on role etc and anyone disagreeing is wrong, then questions if Snarky is PGO is proof enough that he didn't read the game. Scum don't read the game, they just look for a reason to lynch.
Tell me why Gamma is town here.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

His reason for being 100% sure on TIP was because IC is not a boring role. That was it.
I built a case against TIP and even I wasn't 100% sure on him.
Have a look at Gamma's games when people call him out with meta. He acts 100% differently.
He's not read this game and missed whole chucks of important parts.

And you sit here saying that a no lynch is best for town?

I've already given an example to why a no lynch is not good here. If there are 2 different killable factions, and it's not me you or Riley, then I can ensure you that scum are killing the people without PGO/BP.
And 2 town deaths would mean it's a loss.

So tell me your theory why a no lynch is good again?

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

Um no?
Tiphaine has been a total scumfuck

Tell me more over it.
I'm sure you can give it in detail.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

Explain what are bad about them.
Is this all you have for you to be 100% sure he is scum?

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

TiphaineDeath is sketchy as hell. IC is not boring, you get to be conftown

And can you explain to me what is fun about IC (With the assumtion of it not being boring, I came to fun)? I suspect that you found my case against TIP, took a snippet and misunderstood what I was saying.
By no means is IC fun (or non boring). The argument I was saying was, taking BP over IC for the fact that IC isn't fun, when BP has basically the same effect doesn't match up.

I'd like to add that if he really didn't want a boring role with what he had, he wouldn't have picked 2sbp townie. You are still boring that way.

Did you forget this part?
You have changed what you were saying to suit what I corrected you on.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

Elaborated that IC is not boring to BP and IC are the same?
No, you changed to what I already argued over.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

I mean that the "most fun" thing there is SK
also, they could pick IC SK correct? That's fun: being conftown when you are not

No, you can't be anti town and IC.
They could be SK. I could be SK, Riley could be SK, you could be SK... Saying someone could be a role is not what gives you 100% on them being scum.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

Um why not? You can pick it, why can't you be it?
And I love your discredit on them possibly being SK.

Mod already confirmed for me. This is not bastard and IC can only be any align in bastard.
I'm saying that they could be an SK as much as anyone else. Your argument for being 100% sure that TIP is scum is

-

could

be SK
- IC is not a boring role
- He has poor voting which you could not explain to why

Excuse me while I laugh here, Gamma...

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

TD please no lynch if you are town

But you are 100% sure he's scum, right?

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

Not really 100%
Did I ever ACTUALLY state that?
and TD nl is good since it determines how much scum we may be dealing with

I'm 100% on td

Why have we not lynched this scum yet?!?!

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

My tunnel?
You are scum and I keep calling you out on your bullshit.
You called TIP 100% scum. Now you are trying to say you aren't sure because you want a no lynch over your lynch...

Snarky, TIP and Riley... Seriously pull your fingers out here we have scum.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

Sorry!!! I am a bad cake!!!

I don't know who to lynch!!!

Lynch Gamma, he's scum.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

Did you catch up and see that Gamma is scum?

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

Snarky - You're up.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

Finally.
Rautherdir is most likely his buddy.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

Oh look who decided to show as Gamma is lynched...

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

Riley.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

So Riley attacked TIP as I assume he was worried about the PGO and was hoping that id push Rauth and Rauth pushed me.
Other than that I'm not sure.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

However, doesn't explain why there's no other death and the game didn't finish unless
A - I'm Scum (Im not)
B - other Scum had the same idea
C -

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

Sounds good to me.
VOTE: No Lynch

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

Hi Gamma. I don't know your meta btw. And not been in a game with you that I remember. I just thought you were Scum.
Don't hate me though.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

TIP trying to push it as a me vs Snarky off the bat.
That's pretty scummy my friend. For what reason do you think I would call Snarky Scum over you right now?

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

Just to confirm. Out of you and Snarky, I'd vote you.
Regardless to you calling me Scum or if you're town and really believe it, tell me why I shouldn't consider you Scum over Snarky.
Given how you have both played and the roles you took.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

The other part could have been Rauth visiting Snarky and triggering the PGO.
Which I doubt but if that is the case he's forces out hand today to decide a lynch.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

Take your time.
Same to you though. Why should I consider you more town than TIP right now? (Regardless if you think I'm scum)

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

Well no, I'm an easier push because of the Gamma situation while Rauth would be a harder lynch.
And it's known that WW had a kill yesterday and used it (on you as the only explanation) and that I killed them. So you can see that they didn't use it on me.

Being active doesn't mean it's a kill decider.

But hey, at least that means that neither of us can be WW at least.

So we either decide that a no kill from another killing faction actually happened night 3 where we all consider each other as Scum still or Snarky is a WW and that explain why only 1 kill a night.

Other than that I'm not sure what to say.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

Im V/LA as normal this weekend.
I'll try to keep on as much as I can though.

Think about what I said about us being cleared as WW, TIP.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

I only realised it after I originally said I would vote you. Hence why I put it in the previous post.
There is a chance you are Mafia and in your eyes I'm Mafia.
And it is still possible that Theres an alien and Rauth did visit Snarky.

But going by what I know where neither of us can be WW
To clarify - I was checked as not WW and with my power regardless of align it means that you had to of been attacked by Riley for my power to kill them. Meaning WW attack you.

So that alone and with the fact I can't iso Snarky since there's nothing and yours give nothing to help decide...

VOTE: snarky

If you vote straight away I'll take that as a town loss.
But you can at least go proven town here so me and Snarky can discuss.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

UNVOTE: Snarky
I want to think more first.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

I'M NOT A VIG!!! I WOULDN'T HAVE SHOT GERRY IF I WAS :O HE WAS NICE!!!!

What makes you think that Gerry was the Vigo shot if there was one?

This so much.

I'm not a vig BTW

VOTE: riley

This doesn't play at WW either.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

So this is where I'm at. I do not believe that either of you are WW. Alien seems most likely but the lack of Mafia cards so far don't sit too well for me.

Half of me says a no Lynch and hope that Rauth visited Snarky
The other half says that there is still Mafia... but why no kill night 3?
Unless they also killed Riley as the safest option to go into day 4. Or they also attacked TIP with Riley also attacking.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

Did someone say that WW and Scum can't kill on the same night and alternate night kills?

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

Can you 2 please get involved more.
Whoever is town (if 1 of you even are) it's really not fair to not post on a 3p and leave the game to drop.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

Like make the first vote you mean.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

The fact you said pretty sure you're voting me shows that you are too worried to place a vote dowb to confirm Snarky as town.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

I say you put a vote down on me.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

I'm finishing up on reading ISOs. Leaning heavily to 1SVT.

Oh Yeah? Tell me your understanding to what has happened in the game... since you have read up.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

I'm just not sure what Snarky can say now that she hasn't all game to change your opinion. Considering the lack of contribution she is still doing.
I want to see you put your money where your mouth is.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

Now, we wait to see if Snarky is confirmed or if Snarky wins.
I'm thinking the 1st.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

WW or Mafia?

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

Lol, you just had to keep taunting me didn't you? xD.

Meh, Snarky was just not posting as always so I was at a loss loss, even more so where you weren't changing your mind.

@Gamma - sorry

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

Yeah I won't be manipulating things because I think I'm right again. I can assure you that.

[1 Shot Vanilla Town]

It was the role and Maria hiding it that pinged me really hard.
I thought she was a cop.

Then I started to wonder if you and Rauth were Scum together and were going to say a fake WW read on me.
Thats why I couldn't let a no Lynch happen.