Fro99er's Mini Normal Review

[Fro99er]

Yeah, this was the thought behind it

Mafia will NOT have daytalk, but that will not be announced.

The purpose of this setup is to make people scumhunt, instead of setup speculate. I foresee the Weak Doctor getting rolecopped at some point and surviving to LyLo, which should make people question why the doctor is in LyLo. Rolecops, Roleblockers, and Rolestoppers are often considered more likely to be scum than town.

I have an alternative setup proposed, where 10 of the roles are the same, but three of the town roles are different, in parenthesis if the NRG wants to consider that as a better setup should the first not suffice (I'll change the role PMs if they decide to go that route). Still serves a similar purpose, but let's the cop get a guilty on the doc possibly. Can still see a lylo with a doc/miller/3rd town player.

The weak doctor is basically a goon (they can't protect a scum buddy, because then they die), unless they want to protect a town player for town cred (knowing their team will shoot someone else, but it'll be interesting in mass claim when they keep protecting the wrong player).

[Fro99er]

I can totes agree with that.

I wasn't sure about the shits but I like the rolestopper at minimum 2 for a town protective.

[Fro99er]

OMG shots

[Fro99er]

Can you tell me what needs to be clearer about rolestopper and motion detector PMs? I have used those PMs in my past normals so just curious so i can make them better for future games as well

This is the exact rule set I use in all my normals, but I'll update the majority thing

[Fro99er]

My response would be why are you just assuming town will recognize all the PRs as town PRs?

If anything, someone role cops a weak doctor and town normally jump to the conclusion a weak doctor is town. If the weak doctor claims to visit a townie that the motion detector detects, that basically lock towns him from a claim standpoint.

Further, rolestopper and roleblockers are often seen as scum roles more so than town roles. Imagine if the roleblocker blocks the doctor from protecting a townie and claims it.

There's so mny things that could go wrong for town here I'm not seeing why we're just accepting all the town PRs will be recognized as town PRs and all the scum ones recognized as scum.

[Fro99er]

Further, rolestopper and roleblockers are often seen as scum roles more so than town roles.

And rolecop can even be considered so as well

[Fro99er]

Regfan, I'm curious to your thoughts on the setup of this game: viewtopic.php?f=53&t=62192

Town had Odd-night/even-night rolecop, two backup ICs, one encrypto-enabler was all town had vs scum encryptor, backup encryptor, goon

wouldn't that suffer the same problem of the rolecops being able to prevent fake claims from scum? But scum had a perfect win, and everyone said that setup was scumsided, so I'm curious why this is overly town-sided?

[Fro99er]

(relative to that setup)

[Fro99er]

I mean if I just gave scum daytalk does that balance this setup with the two-shot stuff? Is that the difference?

[Fro99er]

I'll let you guys duke it out I guess?

This doesn't have anything to do with "clever modding" and more to do with focusing on the fundamentals -- scumhunting.

I don't see why the rolecops clear each other either. I've put a scum odd-night and a town even-night of the same role together before

[Fro99er]

I don't think you're grasping the point I'm trying to make here which sadly means I'm probably not explaining it well enough so I'll give it one more go.

Mafia have no

actual

power inside this game, the only decision they have to make to deal with town PR's and players is the night kill - fact.
Mafia will have real difficulty fake claiming a power role and getting away with it outside of the Mafia Doctor given town PR's catch fake claims well - fact.
Mafia require 4 mslynches inside the game to win - fact.

So from the above, whenever a massclaim occurs there'll be between 5-6 PR claims in total being Motion Detector/Limited Roleblocker/Rolestopper/Odd & Even Rolecops/Weak Doctor, town will be able to determine pretty easily from that there's really maximum 1 fake claim inside there just from a balance perspective; 4 nerfed roles do not make a town core, this means it's going to be pretty difficult for scum to get a mslynch inside the PR's this game until it ends up being a case of "Find out which PR is fake" and given how Weak Doctor has to "clear" a player nightly if he maintains that claim it's not going to be pretty.

Effectively I think that if just

one

thing goes well for the town; ie Lynching mafia D1, VT dying N1 town flat out just win eventually here.

I think a town PR really has to be removed here and I'm fine with you upping the power from limited from one to full to even it out.

O I get exactly what you are saying


In that other game town had three confirmable roles and two rolecops.

Mafia's only "power" was daytalk. And everyone said it was scumsided


Here I have the same two rolecop setup, no town confirmable roles, and the mafia non-goon role is arguably going to be seen as a town role if rolecopped.

[Fro99er]

I don't think this setup compares to that one at all, town effectively had the odd/even rolecop duo there and 3 named townies which differ quite a lot from

ExActly

Isn't 3 named townies pretty townsided? If a rolecop checks any of them they are conftown. Even worse, the mafia roles were encryptor and backup encryptor. If a rolecop checks them they hit scum. There are no town encryptors

Rolestopper, roleblocker and motion detector are not named townies. A rolecop checks them and They are not town confirmed

[Fro99er]

This is ridiculous

My reviewers are so far apart

[Fro99er]

Maybe I'll just scrap this

[Fro99er]

Works for me.

I'll update the motion detector role

[Fro99er]

Ok...

[Fro99er]

if you've got thoughts still I'm happy to hear them.

[Fro99er]

Bueller?

[Fro99er]

all good -- thank you!

[Fro99er]

In the meantime...here are updated role PMs

(Updates = 1-shot to 2-shot for the rolestopper and roleblocker, and updating the motion detector as requested)

Role PM

• You are a
  Town 2-shot Rolestopper
  .
  
  
  Abilities:
  • At night, you may target ONE player to Rolestop. You may use this ability up to two times in the game, and at most one time on any given night.
    
  • If successful, that player will be immune to any actions, including kills, performed on them, unless the kill is a strongman kill.
    
  • You will not be told if your Rolestop attempt succeeds.
  Win condition:
  
  You are aligned with the
  Town
  and win when all threats to the
  Town
  have been eliminated and at least one
  Town
  -aligned player is alive.

---------------------------------

Role PM

• You are a
  Town 2-shot Roleblocker
  .
  
  
  Abilities:
  • At night, you may target ONE player to Roleblock. You may use this ability up to two times in the game, and at most one time on any given night.
    
  • If successful, that player will not be able to use any Night Actions that night.
    
  • You will not be told if your Roleblock attempt succeeds.
  Win condition:
  
  You are aligned with the
  Town
  and win when all threats to the
  Town
  have been eliminated and at least one
  Town
  -aligned player is alive.

---------------------------------

Role PM

• You are a
  Town Motion Detector
  .
  
  
  Abilities:
  • Once per night you may target a player.
    
  • If a player uses an ability, or has an ability used on them, you will be told
    You saw motioin
    
    
  • If the player neither used an ability, nor had an ability used on them, you will be told
    You did NOT see any motion
    
    
  • If your action is blocked or fails for any reason, you will be told
    No Result
    .
  Win condition:
  
  You are aligned with the
  Town
  and win when all threats to the
  Town
  have been eliminated and at least one
  Town
  -aligned player is alive.

[Fro99er]

Also updated rules to clarify the majority thing

Post 1:

RULES

(taken from

GuyInFreezer

and modified for this game)

General Rules:

1. This game was reviewed for normalcy and balance by [names].
   
   
2. Site-wide rules always apply here.
   
3. If you have a question for me, you can always PM me. If you need to talk to me in thread,
   please bold your question like this so I can see it
   
   
4. You may not use hidden or encrypted text. I decide if the text is small enough to be count as hidden text.
   
5. If you have a power to edit/delete your post, don't do it. If you scumslip, just accept it and eat rope.*
   
6. Play nice. Insulting players with using any form of racial/sexual slur or any kind of derogatory languages or excessive harassing in any way will result in immediate force-replacement.*
   
7. There will be strict adherence to the site policy about prohibiting discussion of ongoing games, which can be found here*
   
8. This means do not discuss other ongoing games in this thread AND do not discuss this game elsewhere.
   
9. Do not quote the PM that moderator sends you. Paraphrasing is fine until a certain level.
   If you're not sure about it, you're always welcome to ask me first before you post.
   *
   
10. Do not use provable randomization in this game. Saying that you rolled a dice is fine, using dice tag is not.
    
11. This is my color (Yellow). Don't use it or colors closely resembling it.
    
    
12. If I find the certain factors/actions damaging the state of the game, I will intervene and/or take action.
    
13. Keep the personal complaint, whatever they may be, outside of the wrong VC/information, private by PMing me.
    
14. If you break these rules, I have full rights to punish you at my will. This can range from simple warning to modkill/force-replace.
    
15. I will always consult a list-mod before performing any modkill.
    
16. VIOLATING THE RULES WITH A STAR (*) WILL CAUSE AN IMMEDIATE FORCE-REPLACE NO MATTER THE CIRCUMSTANCES!
    
    
17. If I feel like it, I always have a full right to add/modify the rules. If I do, I will fully explain the reason behind such action.
    
18. Most importantly, have fun!

Voting and Lynching:

1. You vote by either using bold tag([
   b]Vote: Fro99er[/b
   ]) or using vote tag ([
   vote]Fro99er[/vote
   ]) as such
   Vote: Fro99er
   or VOTE: Fro99er
   
2. Unvote is not required to change your vote. Also, if it looks like a vote for someone, I will count it. No tricking me!
   
3. A player is lynched when the majority of living players -- half players alive plus one rounded down -- vote for the same player
   
4. Once the player is lynched, the lynchee and the living players may talk until I get back and post the flip.
   
5. If the deadline is reached before the lynch has reached, the day will end with
   No Lynch
   .
   
6. If you're nightkilled, you may post one information-less "bah" post.

Activity and Deadline:

1. Deadline for each day phase is:
   10 days (240 hours)
   .
   
2. If you're on V/LA, please tell me beforehand by either posting it in thread (bolded) or PM to me.
   Any V/LA that lasts longer than 120 hours (=5 RL days, =1/2 of a game day phase) will be a force replace.
   
3. If you don't post here for
   48 real hours
   , I will prod you. Failure to receive prod within
   24 hours
   will cause force-replacement.
   
4. Three prods overall will equate to a force replace.
   
5. If you do not submit an action before the night ends, it will count as
   No Action
   .
   
6. There will be
   deadline extensions
   given in this game only upon the moderators discretion.

Sample Role PM

• You are a
  Vanilla Townie
  .
  
  
  Abilities:
  • You possess no special abilities other than your vote and your voice.
  Win condition:
  
  You are aligned with the
  Town
  and win when all threats to the
  Town
  have been eliminated and at least one
  Town
  -aligned player is alive.

Post 2:

Game Information:

1. This game features 10

Town

aligned players and 3

Mafia

aligned players.
2. Please re-read the rules for activity and deadline. I do not use the standard 14 day, 2-3 night deadlines.

[Fro99er]

yeah, I mean I qualified that with "if successful"

a rolestop or roleblock would not be successful on a strongman.

[Fro99er]

oh I see what you rae saying
yeah I'll edit that into the roleblocker PM

[Fro99er]

1) I'll remove the strongman bits, especially because this is normal. If people specifically ask in game I can reply, but I doubt it comes up.

2) I don't do half time on weekends, but we can definitely announce 10 day deadlines on sign up.

[Fro99er]

Role PM

• You are a
  Town 2-shot Rolestopper
  .
  
  
  Abilities:
  • At night, you may target ONE player to Rolestop. You may use this ability up to two times in the game, and at most one time on any given night.
    
  • If successful, that player will be immune to any actions, including kills, performed on them.
    
  • You will not be told if your Rolestop attempt succeeds.
  Win condition:
  
  You are aligned with the
  Town
  and win when all threats to the
  Town
  have been eliminated and at least one
  Town
  -aligned player is alive.

---------------------------------

Role PM

• You are a
  Town 2-shot Roleblocker
  .
  
  
  Abilities:
  • At night, you may target ONE player to Roleblock. You may use this ability up to two times in the game, and at most one time on any given night.
    
  • If successful, that player will not be able to use any Night Actions, including kills, that night.
    
  • You will not be told if your Roleblock attempt succeeds.
  Win condition:
  
  You are aligned with the
  Town
  and win when all threats to the
  Town
  have been eliminated and at least one
  Town
  -aligned player is alive.

---------------------------------

Role PM

• You are a
  Town Motion Detector
  .
  
  
  Abilities:
  • Once per night you may target a player.
    
  • If a player uses an ability, or has an ability used on them, you will be told
    You saw motion
    
    
  • If the player neither used an ability, nor had an ability used on them, you will be told
    You did NOT see any motion
    
    
  • If your action is blocked or fails for any reason, you will be told
    No Result
    .
  Win condition:
  
  You are aligned with the
  Town
  and win when all threats to the
  Town
  have been eliminated and at least one
  Town
  -aligned player is alive.

Removed strongman bits and fixed spelling error in MD role PM

[Fro99er]

<3

Thanks for your feedback everyone!

[Fro99er]

mhsmitty if you're ok with this then just lmk and then we can notify nexus

[Fro99er]

Thanks! Appreciate the feedback from all three of you

[Fro99er]

I assume nexus has that we're ready?

Sent a PM but don't see that I'm next for signups

[Fro99er]

Wooooo