Mini Normal 1905: Complete

Boonskiies · Post Post #1800 (ISO) » Wed May 03, 2017 6:57 am

In post 1799, Backhand wrote:What? Town give up all the time. Hell, choof did earlier this game and there were like two votes on him.

You are defending way too hard for someone you think could go either way.

Boonskiies · Post Post #1801 (ISO) » Wed May 03, 2017 6:58 am

In post 1799, Backhand wrote:What? Town give up all the time. Hell, choof did earlier this game and there were like two votes on him.

he got conf town'd and didn't actually have anything on him. Tywin has stuff up the wazoo on him. You even made a case before, and you still posted either. I have no idea where this flip flop came from.

Backhand · Post Post #1802 (ISO) » Wed May 03, 2017 7:02 am

If I had to narrow it down, I'd have to say its the

uncountered (role)cop claim

I'm just going to have to start quoting this over and over:

I get it. At least some of you and maybe all of you are actually town, you think you've got him dead to rights and you may even be correct. I just don't see it as being worth the risk.

Boonskiies · Post Post #1803 (ISO) » Wed May 03, 2017 7:08 am

In post 1802, Backhand wrote:If I had to narrow it down, I'd have to say its the
uncountered (role)cop claim

I'm just going to have to start quoting this over and over:

I get it. At least some of you and maybe all of you are actually town, you think you've got him dead to rights and you may even be correct. I just don't see it as being worth the risk.

It's a ROLE COP!!!!!!! it doesn't have to be countered. It's like if I claimed fucking like....voyeur for instance.

Boonskiies · Post Post #1804 (ISO) » Wed May 03, 2017 7:11 am

Scum have informed knowledge since they have a better idea of what the game setup is due to knowing what each others roles are along with any potential town claims. I've gotten away with fucking Day 1 investigative claims before as scum. What the hell role would counter claim Role cop in itself besides another role cop itself. It is not a guarantee that we have a role cop, in fact, I actually don't see this role very often in general.

Boonskiies · Post Post #1805 (ISO) » Wed May 03, 2017 7:12 am

Role cop doesn't get fucking counter claimed; that's why he went and claimed it.

Boonskiies · Post Post #1806 (ISO) » Wed May 03, 2017 7:13 am

I just had a scum game where I had a fake cop claim, AN ACTUAL COP, not even a role cop. Tywin is fucking scum.

Boonskiies · Post Post #1807 (ISO) » Wed May 03, 2017 7:15 am

In post 1803, Boonskiies wrote:
In post 1802, Backhand wrote:If I had to narrow it down, I'd have to say its the
uncountered (role)cop claim

I'm just going to have to start quoting this over and over:

I get it. At least some of you and maybe all of you are actually town, you think you've got him dead to rights and you may even be correct. I just don't see it as being worth the risk.

It's a ROLE COP!!!!!!! it doesn't have to be countered. It's like if I claimed fucking like....voyeur for instance.

@Backhand - I'm going to quote this again.

Backhand · Post Post #1808 (ISO) » Wed May 03, 2017 7:19 am

How convenient, my answer is already in the quote.

I get it. At least some of you and maybe all of you are actually town, you think you've got him dead to rights and you may even be correct. I just don't see it as being worth the risk.

Boonskiies · Post Post #1809 (ISO) » Wed May 03, 2017 7:20 am

A voyeur claim would directly counter claim a role cop, i would say.

Boonskiies · Post Post #1810 (ISO) » Wed May 03, 2017 7:21 am

so I'm going to repeat

Boonskiies · Post Post #1811 (ISO) » Wed May 03, 2017 7:21 am

In post 1803, Boonskiies wrote:
In post 1802, Backhand wrote:If I had to narrow it down, I'd have to say its the
uncountered (role)cop claim

I'm just going to have to start quoting this over and over:

I get it. At least some of you and maybe all of you are actually town, you think you've got him dead to rights and you may even be correct. I just don't see it as being worth the risk.

It's a ROLE COP!!!!!!! it doesn't have to be countered. It's like if I claimed fucking like....voyeur for instance.

Kasumeat · Post Post #1812 (ISO) » Wed May 03, 2017 7:21 am

Backhand, would you be willing to lynch one his scumbros Michael or Gamma today instead?

Kasumeat · Post Post #1813 (ISO) » Wed May 03, 2017 7:23 am

I could also see RB or you as one of those, so if absolutely necessary I would lynch one of those 4 if we're still deadlocked at deadline

Boonskiies · Post Post #1814 (ISO) » Wed May 03, 2017 7:24 am

I don't even know why I'm trying to convince Backhand. He legit slipped up and confirmed that him and Tywin are scum together.

Boonskiies · Post Post #1815 (ISO) » Wed May 03, 2017 7:24 am

I was generally town reading Backhand too.

Kasumeat · Post Post #1816 (ISO) » Wed May 03, 2017 7:25 am

Agreed on both counts

Boonskiies · Post Post #1817 (ISO) » Wed May 03, 2017 7:25 am

The fact that I'm basically spelling out why he is not a town aligned Role cop just frustrates me.

Boonskiies · Post Post #1818 (ISO) » Wed May 03, 2017 7:28 am

In post 1725, Backhand wrote:OK, let's break out the scenarios.

Tywin is scum

OK, he claims rolecop. He has to hope:

A. He doesn't get countered
B. He doesn't get targeted by choof and choof dies (WEAK jailkeeper, remember?)
C. There's not an SK, because they probably want him dead whether they believe him or not.

Now, smart mafia (I don't totally want to get into this but I assume they'll figure it out) might decide to target choof so either way, only choof dies. But if tywin is lying, we've got some other power roles I would think, they'll know what to do.

Tywin is town

Well duh, we don't want to lynch a power role. But also mafia have to decide if they want to just kill him, which might not work because choof is out there, try and kill choof and frame him. This is why I suggest choof picking at random if he's going to target TL or not. If TL lives and gets a shot off, it's confirmable by the definition of his claim. Not necessarily alignment determining, but confirmable.

And if he's a scum rolecop, we for sure have town power commensurate with that role's ability.

In post 1745, Backhand wrote:Oh I see now. I'm saying from tywin's perspective with a fake claim, he has to hope he doesn't get targeted by choof, because if he is choof will die.

this implies that Backhand knew that if Choof targeted Tywin, that Choof would die. He tried to fix it, but the response given points towards it even more, as the conclusion from that shouldn't be to go and defend Tywin.

Gamma Emerald · Post Post #1819 (ISO) » Wed May 03, 2017 7:54 am

In post 1711, Flubbernugget wrote:
In post 1525, Gamma Emerald wrote:Okay. How are Cop and role cop so different? I can connect their ideas with one in-between role.
Get lynched

DO IT

WhyMafia · Post Post #1820 (ISO) » Wed May 03, 2017 7:57 am

Question - Hypothetically, if he was role cop, couldn't he still be mafia? And so they get a NK a high possibility for a mislynch d1, and he could lie about future results. It's just keeping him alive for longer. Just food for thought.

WhyMafia · Post Post #1821 (ISO) » Wed May 03, 2017 7:58 am

In post 1817, Boonskiies wrote:The fact that I'm basically spelling out why he is not a town aligned Role cop just frustrates me.

Oh you were? I still have like 15 pages to catch up on rip

Kasumeat · Post Post #1822 (ISO) » Wed May 03, 2017 7:58 am

In post 1820, WhyMafia wrote:Question - Hypothetically, if he was role cop, couldn't he still be mafia? And so they get a NK a high possibility for a mislynch d1, and he could lie about future results. It's just keeping him alive for longer. Just food for thought.

As has been mentioned many times, it's more common as a scum role than a town role.

Gamma Emerald · Post Post #1823 (ISO) » Wed May 03, 2017 7:59 am

In post 1728, Tywin Lannister wrote:
In post 1466, Gamma Emerald wrote:Tywin what convinces you scum has a roleblocker?
Because they have to have a counter to any investigative role. Otherwise the games unbalanced, especially if town have a doc. In that scenario, the best move is for cop to claim, doc to be on him perpetually, and the cop clears people one by one without scum having any ability to counter.

They might not, but what else would balance it? Strong man? Anything else? Unless you think I'm the only town PR, scum have to have counters.

Okay I see this logic. But we have a JK. Cop-JK is actually an archetype of Mini Normal. I've talked with mhsmith about this and he knows A LOT. With JK, a counter to the investigative is less necessary since protection equals roleblocking.

Backhand · Post Post #1824 (ISO) » Wed May 03, 2017 7:59 am

In post 1812, Kasumeat wrote:Backhand, would you be willing to lynch one his scumbros Michael or Gamma today instead?

In order, I'd prefer:

Flub
Michael
Gamma

Boonskiies wrote:
In post 1725, Backhand wrote:OK, let's break out the scenarios.

Tywin is scum

OK, he claims rolecop. He has to hope:

A. He doesn't get countered
B. He doesn't get targeted by choof and choof dies (WEAK jailkeeper, remember?)
C. There's not an SK, because they probably want him dead whether they believe him or not.

Now, smart mafia (I don't totally want to get into this but I assume they'll figure it out) might decide to target choof so either way, only choof dies. But if tywin is lying, we've got some other power roles I would think, they'll know what to do.

this implies that Backhand knew that if Choof targeted Tywin, that Choof would die. He tried to fix it, but the response given points towards it even more, as the conclusion from that shouldn't be to go and defend Tywin.

Yes, in the hypothetical I very clearly titled: Tywin is Scum.

I don't see how you're not seeing that there are so many ways to verify his claim during the night.