Mini Normal 1905: Complete

[Gamma Emerald]

Tywin what convinces you scum has a roleblocker?

Because they have to have a counter to any investigative role. Otherwise the games unbalanced, especially if town have a doc. In that scenario, the best move is for cop to claim, doc to be on him perpetually, and the cop clears people one by one without scum having any ability to counter.

They might not, but what else would balance it? Strong man? Anything else? Unless you think I'm the only town PR, scum have to have counters.

We have a weak jailkeeper. Having a Roleblocker in this game would be weird. What would happen if they target each other? What takes precedent? Jk/RB in the same game is just weird.

Go look at Matrix6.

[Dierfire]

VOTE COUNT 1.23

Tywin Lannister (5): Boonskiies, Flubbernugget, choof, Kasumeat, Melanora
Boonskiies (3): rb, Michael Lee, Gamma Emerald
Flubbernugget (2): CooLDoG, Backhand
Kasumeat (1): Tywin Lannister
rb (1): TheFuzzylogic99

No Vote (1): WhyMafia

With 13 players living, 7/13 votes are required to lynch.

TIMER

(expired on 2017-05-09 20:15:00)

NOTES

None

[Flubbernugget]

There are no weak roles in matrix 6

If you're going to discredit, please actually try

[WhyMafia]

There are no weak roles in matrix 6

If you're going to discredit, please actually try

He's answering what takes presedence lol

Over defensive much?

[Flubbernugget]

I don't see how you're not seeing that there are so many ways to verify his claim during the night.

"x is vanilla" isn't foolproof but still fairly low risk

[Gamma Emerald]

Oh I see now. I'm saying from tywin's perspective with a fake claim, he has to hope he doesn't get targeted by choof, because if he is choof will die.

okay, this actually is a slip that incriminated both of them...

How, because it really isn't.

[Gamma Emerald]

There are no weak roles in matrix 6

If you're going to discredit, please actually try

Weak wasn't part of the discuss so back off.

[Gamma Emerald]

Oh I see now. I'm saying from tywin's perspective with a fake claim, he has to hope he doesn't get targeted by choof, because if he is choof will die.

@Backhand - this post kind of implies that you know that if Choof targets Tywin, that Choof will die. Response? I think it's best if you just vote Tywin now...haha.

It's what I thought. You scumclaimed by pushing this.

[Kasumeat]

Backhand, would you be willing to lynch one his scumbros Michael or Gamma today instead?

In order, I'd prefer:

Flub
Michael
Gamma

OK, let's break out the scenarios.

Tywin is scum

OK, he claims rolecop. He has to hope:

A. He doesn't get countered
B. He doesn't get targeted by choof and choof dies (WEAK jailkeeper, remember?)
C. There's not an SK, because they probably want him dead whether they believe him or not.

Now, smart mafia (I don't totally want to get into this but I assume they'll figure it out) might decide to target choof so either way, only choof dies. But if tywin is lying, we've got some other power roles I would think, they'll know what to do.



this implies that Backhand knew that if Choof targeted Tywin, that Choof would die. He tried to fix it, but the response given points towards it even more, as the conclusion from that shouldn't be to go and defend Tywin.

Yes, in the hypothetical I very clearly titled: Tywin is Scum.

I don't see how you're not seeing that there are so many ways to verify his claim during the night.

So in other words you aren't willing to back off Flub?

Also, how sure would you have to be %-wise of Tywin's scumminess to vote him here? How sure are you, % wise?

[Kasumeat]

I'm not gonna fight it forever, but damn will I be happy when you fucks get lynched immediately after. I cant see a town win if either of kasumat or boon are town, because they'll be around til lylo to fuck it up. Id leave them around to make the worst possible plays for town as long as possible.

Case fucking closed. A town player would not post this. This post is coming from the perspective of somebody who is scum. Towntywin would know that Boon or I would get lynched as soon as Tywin is flipped town. But Tywin has slipped here and is writing from the perspective of Tywin flipping scum.

Tywin is Confscum.

Whymafia, please respond to this.

[Gamma Emerald]

@Mela - He's a role cop pushing himself as a cop. I think that's hilarious as well.

Also, there's no way in hell a Roleblocker in this game with a Weak Jailkeeper already here. JK/Rb...what do you do in the situation they target each other? It's not fair to either side no matter what happens.

Here's what happens
Weak JK dies
Both are blocked, so the JK can't protect (irrelevant) and the mafia rb can't kill.

[Boonskiies]

Question - Hypothetically, if he was role cop, couldn't he still be mafia? And so they get a NK a high possibility for a mislynch d1, and he could lie about future results. It's just keeping him alive for longer. Just food for thought.

yes. I always see that role as more likely mafia anyways.

[Gamma Emerald]

Earlier Tywin was saying that it's okay if he got lynched toDay, because he'd flip town and then Melo and I would be lynched the following days. Now he's actively going against that. Contradiction in play right there.

You are scraping the bottom of the barrel for contradictions now.

[Boonskiies]

Tywin what convinces you scum has a roleblocker?

Because they have to have a counter to any investigative role. Otherwise the games unbalanced, especially if town have a doc. In that scenario, the best move is for cop to claim, doc to be on him perpetually, and the cop clears people one by one without scum having any ability to counter.

They might not, but what else would balance it? Strong man? Anything else? Unless you think I'm the only town PR, scum have to have counters.

We have a weak jailkeeper. Having a Roleblocker in this game would be weird. What would happen if they target each other? What takes precedent? Jk/RB in the same game is just weird.

Go look at Matrix6.

matrix6 is a semi open setup, and JK/RB together with only a BP doesn't affect anything. In a closed setup, it doesn't work that way. Say a Roleblocker and a JK targeted each other. A vigilante shoots said Roleblocker. The Jailkeeper targeted the roleblocker and protects it from dying from the vigilante. But wait!!! The Roleblocker targeted the JK, so that didn't go through, so the roleblocker DOES in fact die. It goes back and forth in a circle. You can't do this in a closed setup.

[Boonskiies]

Earlier Tywin was saying that it's okay if he got lynched toDay, because he'd flip town and then Melo and I would be lynched the following days. Now he's actively going against that. Contradiction in play right there.

You are scraping the bottom of the barrel for contradictions now.

I'M NOT EVEN THE FIRST ONE TO POINT THIS OUT!!!!!!

[Kasumeat]

Earlier Tywin was saying that it's okay if he got lynched toDay, because he'd flip town and then Melo and I would be lynched the following days. Now he's actively going against that. Contradiction in play right there.

You are scraping the bottom of the barrel for contradictions now.

Gamma, looks like you quoted Boons here instead of Tywin by accident

[Boonskiies]

Tywin what convinces you scum has a roleblocker?

Because they have to have a counter to any investigative role. Otherwise the games unbalanced, especially if town have a doc. In that scenario, the best move is for cop to claim, doc to be on him perpetually, and the cop clears people one by one without scum having any ability to counter.

They might not, but what else would balance it? Strong man? Anything else? Unless you think I'm the only town PR, scum have to have counters.

Okay I see this logic. But we have a JK. Cop-JK is actually an archetype of Mini Normal. I've talked with mhsmith about this and he knows A LOT. With JK, a counter to the investigative is less necessary since protection equals roleblocking.

We have a WEAK JAILKEEPER. WHich doesn't go with Cop. But he IS NOT A COP!!! He is a ROLE COP!!! They are absolutely not the same role. A Weak Jailkeeper confirms people as town, and there would never be a weak jailkeeper in the same game as a town cop. You have the potential to get 4 confirmed town by Day 2, which basically makes it 3 scum vs 4 town at best, where scum have to kill either cop/weak JK the next night, and then the other gets another conf, which can potentially make it impossible for mafia to win. That is not a possible setup. And if he is going to keep saying he's a cop and not a role cop, then I'm going to treat him as such, as there is a difference. He will not flip town aligned.

[Boonskiies]

Like my 1839/1841 completely cut out any of that theory of why mechanically it doesn't work.

[Gamma Emerald]

Tywin what convinces you scum has a roleblocker?

Because they have to have a counter to any investigative role. Otherwise the games unbalanced, especially if town have a doc. In that scenario, the best move is for cop to claim, doc to be on him perpetually, and the cop clears people one by one without scum having any ability to counter.

They might not, but what else would balance it? Strong man? Anything else? Unless you think I'm the only town PR, scum have to have counters.

We have a weak jailkeeper. Having a Roleblocker in this game would be weird. What would happen if they target each other? What takes precedent? Jk/RB in the same game is just weird.

Go look at Matrix6.

matrix6 is a semi open setup, and JK/RB together with only a BP doesn't affect anything. In a closed setup, it doesn't work that way. Say a Roleblocker and a JK targeted each other. A vigilante shoots said Roleblocker. The Jailkeeper targeted the roleblocker and protects it from dying from the vigilante. But wait!!! The Roleblocker targeted the JK, so that didn't go through, so the roleblocker DOES in fact die. It goes back and forth in a circle. You can't do this in a closed setup.

They've already done all this discussion, likely before even you joined the site. Roleblocker effects cross targeting results in any powers lower in the NAR getting blocked.

[Boonskiies]

Backhand, would you be willing to lynch one his scumbros Michael or Gamma today instead?

In order, I'd prefer:

Flub
Michael
Gamma

OK, let's break out the scenarios.

Tywin is scum

OK, he claims rolecop. He has to hope:

A. He doesn't get countered
B. He doesn't get targeted by choof and choof dies (WEAK jailkeeper, remember?)
C. There's not an SK, because they probably want him dead whether they believe him or not.

Now, smart mafia (I don't totally want to get into this but I assume they'll figure it out) might decide to target choof so either way, only choof dies. But if tywin is lying, we've got some other power roles I would think, they'll know what to do.



this implies that Backhand knew that if Choof targeted Tywin, that Choof would die. He tried to fix it, but the response given points towards it even more, as the conclusion from that shouldn't be to go and defend Tywin.

Yes, in the hypothetical I very clearly titled: Tywin is Scum.

I don't see how you're not seeing that there are so many ways to verify his claim during the night.

There isn't. These aren't way to verify his claim, they are WIFOM setups. None of these scenarios confirm him as town.

[Gamma Emerald]

Earlier Tywin was saying that it's okay if he got lynched toDay, because he'd flip town and then Melo and I would be lynched the following days. Now he's actively going against that. Contradiction in play right there.

You are scraping the bottom of the barrel for contradictions now.

Gamma, looks like you quoted Boons here instead of Tywin by accident

Tywin isn't contradiction picking so f*** off.

[Backhand]

I don't see how you're not seeing that there are so many ways to verify his claim during the night.

"x is vanilla" isn't foolproof but still fairly low risk

But

Loud

role cop. So either he counts on a buddy to cover for him (high risk) or he can't do that. Of course yes, the role doesn't mean that he's town.

% wise, to kill a claimed role D1? I'd have to be 80-90 percent. I'm probably 50-50 right now.

I'd be willing to move off of flub, but oh man if he's scum is that telling. I feel like the *upside* of the flub lynch is very high.

[Boonskiies]

Tywin what convinces you scum has a roleblocker?

Because they have to have a counter to any investigative role. Otherwise the games unbalanced, especially if town have a doc. In that scenario, the best move is for cop to claim, doc to be on him perpetually, and the cop clears people one by one without scum having any ability to counter.

They might not, but what else would balance it? Strong man? Anything else? Unless you think I'm the only town PR, scum have to have counters.

We have a weak jailkeeper. Having a Roleblocker in this game would be weird. What would happen if they target each other? What takes precedent? Jk/RB in the same game is just weird.

Go look at Matrix6.

matrix6 is a semi open setup, and JK/RB together with only a BP doesn't affect anything. In a closed setup, it doesn't work that way. Say a Roleblocker and a JK targeted each other. A vigilante shoots said Roleblocker. The Jailkeeper targeted the roleblocker and protects it from dying from the vigilante. But wait!!! The Roleblocker targeted the JK, so that didn't go through, so the roleblocker DOES in fact die. It goes back and forth in a circle. You can't do this in a closed setup.

They've already done all this discussion, likely before even you joined the site. Roleblocker effects cross targeting results in any powers lower in the NAR getting blocked.

Jailkeeper and roleblocker are on the same point in NAR.

[Kasumeat]

Going to work now.

@Whymafia, are you able to vote twice on the same person?

[Boonskiies]

I don't see how you're not seeing that there are so many ways to verify his claim during the night.

"x is vanilla" isn't foolproof but still fairly low risk

But

Loud

role cop. So either he counts on a buddy to cover for him (high risk) or he can't do that. Of course yes, the role doesn't mean that he's town.

% wise, to kill a claimed role D1? I'd have to be 80-90 percent. I'm probably 50-50 right now.

I'd be willing to move off of flub, but oh man if he's scum is that telling. I feel like the *upside* of the flub lynch is very high.

No, he is going to fucking pull the roleblocking card. He already basically stated he was "going to get roleblocked tonight". That's what started all of this god damn stuff. Do you even read this thred?