This should be balanced at 8p (theoretically) with EV ~45% townsided.
This set-up introduces a new role.
Marked For Death:
IC, announced at the beginning of the day, dies at the end of day unless all members of mafia are dead.
+ 6 VT
+ 2 Goons
Mafia has no night kill. Instead, every night mafia has to select one living VT and convert them to Marked For Death. They are announced as such the at the start of the next day, and die at the end of it.
Note:
this setup is theoretically equivalent to 6 D2+ Backup IC + 2 Goons, however the main difference here is that mafia is forced to kill the IC every night, and select which backup IC takes over. The reasons is that I speculate this makes the game more interesting for both parties.
Last edited by Toto on Sun May 14, 2017 2:15 pm, edited 5 times in total.
just because you get evil player role doesn't mean you are a evil person at HEART - KainTepes!!!
In post 4, Randomnamechange wrote:this doesnt feel balanced to me. 2v7 is unbalanced and this doesnt seem like that much of a benefit to town?
It's math.
Vanilla 2v7 has ~30% Town WR.
This has 45%.
The main difference is that everyday you have a confirmed townie. So for example, in a 2v1 lylo normally chances would be 33%; here it is 50% because one of the townies is confirmed (marked for death).
just because you get evil player role doesn't mean you are a evil person at HEART - KainTepes!!!
It also has the interesting dynamic of scum being unable to just kill and silence a townie that they want; by selecting someone for death, they conf!town the slot and give it influence. Of course, it's probably kind of annoying to be the d1 death marked townie, since you know in advance that you're gonna die quickly. I kinda feel like that should be a random generated thing? I guess the ? is if the overall EV is enough to require that scum do get that option, it's just that it'd be annoying for players who want to influence the game to feel like they'd just be the d1 automatic in order to silence their voice longterm.
http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Mhsmith0
Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
BATMAN: Only jugg was the only one we didn’t scum read at least not me
Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
Life is simply unfair, don't you think?
I'd actually say that 6v2 with no d1 mark is probably a bit more fun for everyone. Whether it's balanced or not depends on how much +EV town's scumhunting is; like, 45% theoretical win rate from random lynching is kind of high (probably towns do a little bit worse on 6v2 with no d1 mark vs 7v2 with a d1 mark but I won't swear to it), and I'd suspect that towns would win this a bit more often than not.
http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Mhsmith0
Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
BATMAN: Only jugg was the only one we didn’t scum read at least not me
Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
Life is simply unfair, don't you think?
If you need a review approval for this (you seemed unsure in the Queue thread), I'm happy to approve it too (at 6:2 with no d1 mark). I'd expect it to be slightly townsided, because scum can't get a persuasive/accurate town voice out of the game immediately (and will in fact give temporarily give their voice more weight), but that might well end up being outweighed by WIFOM in practice. In any case, it isn't far off.
In post 13, callforjudgement wrote:If you need a review approval for this (you seemed unsure in the Queue thread), I'm happy to approve it too (at 6:2 with no d1 mark). I'd expect it to be slightly townsided, because scum can't get a persuasive/accurate town voice out of the game immediately (and will in fact give temporarily give their voice more weight), but that might well end up being outweighed by WIFOM in practice. In any case, it isn't far off.
Thanks!
I'm hoping to try this smaller set up a few times before I try to increase the player count to make sure it works in practice.
just because you get evil player role doesn't mean you are a evil person at HEART - KainTepes!!!
It's like 7:2 but each day you have a confirmed townie (who changes from day to day). That's a big benefit in PoE (in addition to knowing that that player's reads are genuine), and that should show up as a higher town win rate.
http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Mhsmith0
Conq: you, sir, are great at being town.
BATMAN: Only jugg was the only one we didn’t scum read at least not me
Quick: There is little to no chance this slot is Power-Wolfing.
SR: I want to give him a day
Life is simply unfair, don't you think?
I think this is definitely balanced. The named townie approach is interesting and creates some weird counterclaim situations in LyLo. That part I'm not sure about. On one hand, it benefits scum in endgame by allowing wiggle room. On the other hand, it allows town to withhold their claim in early game and act as a on-PM Innocent Child to get reactions.
"I just want to play mafia, not Economics Wonderland." - cytheflyguy