Mini Normal 1908 - In The Web (Game Over)

MarioManiac4 · Post Post #64 (isolation #0) » Tue May 02, 2017 6:37 pm

oh god what have you done to make 3 pages while I am sleeping already
I wanted to RVS

MarioManiac4 · Post Post #66 (isolation #1) » Tue May 02, 2017 6:41 pm

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

Basic laws of RVS.

MarioManiac4 · Post Post #69 (isolation #2) » Tue May 02, 2017 7:19 pm

In post 67, Gamma Emerald wrote:What law is that?

the law of

quicklynch

voting the largest wagon!

MarioManiac4 · Post Post #150 (isolation #3) » Wed May 03, 2017 4:25 am

reading and my primary thought is that transcend is town

MarioManiac4 · Post Post #186 (isolation #4) » Wed May 03, 2017 8:12 am

hey guys.
trans/mort/2face are probably town. (If this is the scumteam I will feel incredibly stupid postgame)
If anyone is here I'd be glad to discuss reads this game because I have no scumreads

MarioManiac4 · Post Post #288 (isolation #5) » Wed May 03, 2017 7:32 pm

I still want someone to engage with me on scumreads because I don't have any.
The townclub right now is {MortFeld, TwoFace, Transcend, Hikari Link, Ircher}
MortFeld- I guess I'd have to call this one mainy a gutread, the tone of the way he's posted- that said he has readily tried to move on from the early phases of the game with immense effort. Usually I do that but this game I didn't have to.

TwoFace- See above, but he's also a doublevoter.
Transcend- his unpredictability and tone feel town completely.
Hikari Link- At a point of the game where the players were having short arguements, Hikari Link in 214 asks questions, and generally tries to move the game forward in its phases. That post looks very town to me.
Ircher- Feels town especially from what I have seen from him in the past.

MarioManiac4 · Post Post #291 (isolation #6) » Wed May 03, 2017 7:41 pm

In post 290, Titus wrote:
In post 288, MarioManiac4 wrote:I still want someone to engage with me on scumreads because I don't have any.
The townclub right now is {MortFeld, TwoFace, Transcend, Hikari Link, Ircher}
MortFeld- I guess I'd have to call this one mainy a gutread, the tone of the way he's posted- that said he has readily tried to move on from the early phases of the game with immense effort. Usually I do that but this game I didn't have to.
TwoFace- See above, but he's also a doublevoter.
Transcend- his unpredictability and tone feel town completely.
Hikari Link- At a point of the game where the players were having short arguements, Hikari Link in 214 asks questions, and generally tries to move the game forward in its phases. That post looks very town to me.
Ircher- Feels town especially from what I have seen from him in the past.
I dunno I kinda don't like MortFeld's posting.

I concur with twoface and twoface town.

The others I would like elaboration on.

At this point in the game I've given most of the elaboration I could give. MortFeld's posting feels good to me? You're probably a better player but it seems to come from a town POV. Hikari feels like he wants to push the game forward and ask questions (although I would like to see what he does with them later.) Ircher just generally feels town from his tone; it feels both town and similar to past games that I have played with him.
I'm assuming by the second 2face you meant transcend.

MarioManiac4 · Post Post #298 (isolation #7) » Wed May 03, 2017 7:52 pm

why do people think transcend is scum?

MarioManiac4 · Post Post #334 (isolation #8) » Thu May 04, 2017 5:14 am

VOTE: MMM

Probably the best wagon so far.

MarioManiac4 · Post Post #339 (isolation #9) » Thu May 04, 2017 5:20 am

It seems like he's trying to look like a scumhunter, but I don't really see any of the conviction behind the scumhunting.
Weak but w/e

MarioManiac4 · Post Post #341 (isolation #10) » Thu May 04, 2017 5:48 am

In post 340, Hikari Link wrote:
In post 339, MarioManiac4 wrote:It seems like he's trying to look like a scumhunter, but I don't really see any of the conviction behind the scumhunting.
Weak but w/e
MortFeld or MMM? I'm assuming MortFeld, but if so, why is MMM the best target right now?

MMM and see above ^^
Sure it's weak, but so is everything else. Better than not having a vote on.

MarioManiac4 · Post Post #488 (isolation #11) » Thu May 04, 2017 6:18 pm

Why are you all town apart from MMM who isn't even that scummy.
Damnit now I've got to critically analyze all of the current lurkers.

MarioManiac4 · Post Post #489 (isolation #12) » Thu May 04, 2017 6:18 pm

I mean I guess I could see GE but it's a bit of a stretch

MarioManiac4 · Post Post #543 (isolation #13) » Fri May 05, 2017 4:27 am

what have you all done now?

MarioManiac4 · Post Post #569 (isolation #14) » Fri May 05, 2017 6:22 am

you have meta with me? this is news

MarioManiac4 · Post Post #572 (isolation #15) » Fri May 05, 2017 6:26 am

i thought you were referring to me because I was the last name you mentioned

MarioManiac4 · Post Post #573 (isolation #16) » Fri May 05, 2017 6:27 am

there's also the fact you quoted me as well

MarioManiac4 · Post Post #577 (isolation #17) » Fri May 05, 2017 6:31 am

In post 575, -Grey- wrote:
In post 573, MarioManiac4 wrote:there's also the fact you quoted me as well
Nope. There's not that fact at all. Quoting you was to illustrate who I'm going after when Transcend flips scum.

That's not relevant because I'm not arguing that you were talking about me, I'm telling you why I thought you were.

MarioManiac4 · Post Post #680 (isolation #18) » Fri May 05, 2017 11:09 pm

the greyslot feels town
i will read the thread over again in an attempt to find more likely scum than mmm

MarioManiac4 · Post Post #690 (isolation #19) » Sat May 06, 2017 7:52 am

I'm not seeing either of these two wagons here. Still comfortable with my MMM vote because his explanation on his Transcend mini-tunnel just doesn't make sense to me.

MarioManiac4 · Post Post #692 (isolation #20) » Sat May 06, 2017 8:51 am

In post 691, TwoFace wrote:
In post 690, MarioManiac4 wrote:I'm not seeing either of these two wagons here. Still comfortable with my MMM vote because his explanation on his Transcend mini-tunnel just doesn't make sense to me.
But that's a stupid reason to want to lynch somebody. Just cause it doesn't make sense to you doesn't make it wrong/scummy/ or even alignment indicative.

What else do you have in mmm?

that was probably bad wording
like the reasoning behind all of the emotion related to transcend is basically non-existent, like he tunnelled transcend and I'm not really buying that this was because transcend called him an idiot backhandedly. I feel like he may have been seeking a way out of a Transcend wagon he didn't want to stay on.
as I have also stated earlier, he is posting a lot but I'm not sure all of the posting is catching scum, delivering reads etc.
I feel like the scum are either a) lurking or b) duping me because I'm only seeing MMM and even that is weak.

MarioManiac4 · Post Post #696 (isolation #21) » Sat May 06, 2017 9:11 am

I feel like that's just titus reconsidering her reads after a few hundred posts tho

MarioManiac4 · Post Post #736 (isolation #22) » Sun May 07, 2017 4:13 am

I'm so sorry you have to mod this game radnoj and TB.
Guess I should start doing more shit. It's really hard to get involved in this game for a multitude of reasons I'm not going to go into.

MarioManiac4 · Post Post #737 (isolation #23) » Sun May 07, 2017 4:16 am

It also doesn't help that everyone was apparently given a Town Role PM.

MarioManiac4 · Post Post #738 (isolation #24) » Sun May 07, 2017 4:28 am

I understand getting frustrated with Transcend but that slot was town af. I'm not voting it or Titus today.
MMM has been getting progressively townier and I'm not comfortable voting there anymore.
I actually can't see it. Someone needs to make a good case. :p

UNVOTE:

MarioManiac4 · Post Post #765 (isolation #25) » Sun May 07, 2017 7:16 am

strategical replacement is shitty and against site rules and titus wouldn't do it.

MarioManiac4 · Post Post #767 (isolation #26) » Sun May 07, 2017 7:22 am

it's not a trust tell
it's the fact that titus is a better person as to break site rules and leave a game for an ulterior motive like that
it's not AI at all.

MarioManiac4 · Post Post #768 (isolation #27) » Sun May 07, 2017 7:23 am

i'm trying to gather my thoughts on every player in the game rn

MarioManiac4 · Post Post #770 (isolation #28) » Sun May 07, 2017 7:28 am

Titus- the only one who was willing to try and discuss the game with me, feels town in the posting, weird wagon
Ircher- actually Ircher hasn't done much, I could possibly lynch it I guess?
MortFeld- scumhunting a lot and putting effort into it, don't see scum here
Transcend- felt town earlygame, ate is a logical fallacy but usually NAI
TwoFace- doublevoter is a plus and he is actively scumhunting.
BigYoshiFan- ? not sure on this one tbh, iso'd him earlier and his posts didn't really have any clear scum motivation
Gamma Emerald- actually looking back I don't really like this slot, feels like he's making a lot of posts that seem to have the motivation to look like scumhunting but he doesn't really do anything with the answers to his questions. I guess this would be my primary scumread?
Tarkus- his posts make sense and they resonate with me so this slot is probtown
-Grey- (replaces NotTheRealPaul)- he put a lot of effort into catching up into this game, and I don't think he'd want to aggravate me for no reason when he basically told me to stfu earlier.
ChannelDelibird- his hikari vote isn't great but he has made one post
MMM- I used to think this was scum but now I'm not sure- his explanation of his positions make sense and he's starting to feel progressively townier.
Hikari Link- in a game of spamposting and nullity he has taken explicit steps to advance the game. town.

MarioManiac4 · Post Post #771 (isolation #29) » Sun May 07, 2017 7:28 am

I still don't get the titus wagon ftr

MarioManiac4 · Post Post #780 (isolation #30) » Sun May 07, 2017 7:51 am

In post 769, BigYoshiFan wrote:That makes sense. Even if I'm not considering the timing of her sub out, she's still acted scummy.

?
why does it become ok as soon as i add the clause that it doesn't make her town? idgi

MarioManiac4 · Post Post #781 (isolation #31) » Sun May 07, 2017 7:52 am

In post 776, MortFeld wrote:
In post 770, MarioManiac4 wrote: MortFeld- scumhunting a lot and putting effort into it, don't see scum here
I am town but I've been incredibly lazy this game, though not by choice.

well in that case I've basically been in a coma the whole time

MarioManiac4 · Post Post #783 (isolation #32) » Sun May 07, 2017 7:54 am

In post 773, MMM wrote:
In post 763, BigYoshiFan wrote:Right.
Titus' sub-out comes off as less genuine for that reason, would you agree?
Just because we can't explain it doesn't necessarily mean it's not genuine.
MarioManiac4 wrote:Titus- the only one who was willing to try and discuss the game with me, feels town in the posting, weird wagon
Ircher- actually Ircher hasn't done much, I could possibly lynch it I guess?
MortFeld- scumhunting a lot and putting effort into it, don't see scum here
Transcend- felt town earlygame, ate is a logical fallacy but usually NAI
TwoFace- doublevoter is a plus and he is actively scumhunting.
BigYoshiFan- ? not sure on this one tbh, iso'd him earlier and his posts didn't really have any clear scum motivation
Gamma Emerald- actually looking back I don't really like this slot, feels like he's making a lot of posts that seem to have the motivation to look like scumhunting but he doesn't really do anything with the answers to his questions. I guess this would be my primary scumread?
Tarkus- his posts make sense and they resonate with me so this slot is probtown
-Grey- (replaces NotTheRealPaul)- he put a lot of effort into catching up into this game, and I don't think he'd want to aggravate me for no reason when he basically told me to stfu earlier.
ChannelDelibird- his hikari vote isn't great but he has made one post
MMM- I used to think this was scum but now I'm not sure- his explanation of his positions make sense and he's starting to feel progressively townier.
Hikari Link- in a game of spamposting and nullity he has taken explicit steps to advance the game. town.
Titus isn't that townie to be quite honest - just not that scummy. Grey aggravates people a lot in general, so I think it's NAI. Tarkus needs to post more before he can convince me he's town. Ircher has indeed not done a whole bunch but what he has done does feel like it comes from town. TwoFace isn't an IC but he seems townie to me. ChannelDelibird needs to post more and Transcend's sub will have a lot of convincing to do too.
Other than what I mentioned I'm mostly in agreement with your reads (which is to say I agree with you on <50% of all players lol)

@grey; the thing was that there was no scum motivation for trying to make me more emotive rly.
@Ircher; Meta is generally bad but it can be good in specific cases- and Ircher's play here doesn't really fit what I've seen him as when I played town!him in a handful of game.

MarioManiac4 · Post Post #786 (isolation #33) » Sun May 07, 2017 7:59 am

In post 784, BigYoshiFan wrote:
In post 780, MarioManiac4 wrote:
In post 769, BigYoshiFan wrote:That makes sense. Even if I'm not considering the timing of her sub out, she's still acted scummy.
?
why does it become ok as soon as i add the clause that it doesn't make her town? idgi
Do you mean "it doesn't make her scum"?
Anyways, I understand your PoV. That's all I was saying.

it's more like
exhibit a) I say that it's not NAI, you think that I'm saying Titus is town = you say it's bad
exhibit b) I explain that I don't think it's AI = you say it's alright

feels like you just want to oppose everything that opposes the titus wagon tbh

pedit: I would say so. Scum!grey doesn't care about me talking in his "big important catchup tyme!" so considering that I can't think of any plausible scum motivation it's probably town.
Also the sheer effort and production of his posts where it wasn't really necessary although that's closer to null considering his apparent experience.

MarioManiac4 · Post Post #790 (isolation #34) » Sun May 07, 2017 8:41 am

there is still probably enough time to lynch another
both are empty slots anyway

MarioManiac4 · Post Post #831 (isolation #35) » Mon May 08, 2017 5:10 am

@tarkus; To be honest MMM pretty much cleared my concerns with 699 and I wasn't really scumreading his more recent posts at all.

MarioManiac4 · Post Post #834 (isolation #36) » Mon May 08, 2017 5:45 am

BigYoshiFan's posts on Titus' replacing being AI feel weirdish still, like he is looking for reasons to scumread Titus because of the momentum planted there. His vote on Titus overall really doesn't make much sense to me. So I guess scum could be there? I'm looking at the ISOs and posts in this game and I'm thinking, "alright, this one could be about scumhunting, it could be doing x" but it's hard to determine what is actually happening. I'm going to be referring to more recent posts from here on out and see if it helps if I read the discussions in real time individually and ask questions about them.

MarioManiac4 · Post Post #837 (isolation #37) » Mon May 08, 2017 5:52 am

i thought that he was claiming that his emotion was a major factor in his transcend voting
it feels more genuine now that I know that isn't the case

MarioManiac4 · Post Post #840 (isolation #38) » Mon May 08, 2017 6:00 am

In post 838, MortFeld wrote:
In post 837, MarioManiac4 wrote:i thought that he was claiming that his emotion was a major factor in his transcend voting
it feels more genuine now that I know that isn't the case
And how does him claiming that his emotion was a major factor in his Transcend voting help him get off a Transcend wagon he doesn't want to be on? And where did you get the idea that he didn't want to be on the Transcend wagon?

because he says that we should ignore his posts on transcend because they were based off of emotions and presumably not really because this was scummy. i thought this would provide an avenue to unvote transcend and back out of his points. if he did this, this would lead to him not actually wanting to be on the transcend wagon.

MarioManiac4 · Post Post #842 (isolation #39) » Mon May 08, 2017 9:49 am

In post 841, Tarkus wrote:Why is MMM digging his heels in on Transcend, a slot you called 'town af', towny? I presume you don't agree with what he said in 798 and 803, so could you explain more on why you're reading him as genuine? It seems like you changed your read just because MMM has a reason for his vote beyond emotion, and that's not making sense to me given the content of his posts

it's not even a read change tbh. I'm having real trouble actually pinpointing things this game that are scummy. I thought I saw it with MMM/I think Yoshi at one point but I really didn't. MMM digging his heels in on Transcend doesn't help us if Trans is indeed town but it's also not really scummy.
On the other hand everyone is town, but some people are more town than others, and my townreads ~feel~ ok right now.

MarioManiac4 · Post Post #920 (isolation #40) » Mon May 08, 2017 6:44 pm

In post 844, BigYoshiFan wrote:
In post 834, MarioManiac4 wrote:BigYoshiFan's posts on Titus' replacing being AI feel weirdish still, like he is looking for reasons to scumread Titus because of the momentum planted there. His vote on Titus overall really doesn't make much sense to me. So I guess scum could be there? I'm looking at the ISOs and posts in this game and I'm thinking, "alright, this one could be about scumhunting, it could be doing x" but it's hard to determine what is actually happening. I'm going to be referring to more recent posts from here on out and see if it helps if I read the discussions in real time individually and ask questions about them.
What about my vote doesn't make sense?

I see you saying Titus is scum for being opportunistic but there's really nothing like that, just Titus changing her reads. If we were going like that, I could vote you for pushing a slot that replaced out, but that doesn't really make you scum, right? And I don't feel like what Titus did was AI enough to get this amount of effort on tbh.
Of course that probably doesn't make you scum anyways but it does feel scummy to me.

MarioManiac4 · Post Post #922 (isolation #41) » Mon May 08, 2017 6:48 pm

In post 893, Gamma Emerald wrote:I'm down with flash wagoning fitz

why? You were fine with letting him go a few posts ago.
In fact I looked through your ISO and there's barely any mention of Titus at all. Just a blank vote, one question you didn't seem to do anything with.

MarioManiac4 · Post Post #924 (isolation #42) » Mon May 08, 2017 6:49 pm

In post 915, TwoFace wrote:
In post 913, WhemeStar wrote:
In post 906, TwoFace wrote:you replaced my top scum read. literally no chance I sheep you.
Well I can be your town read cause I'm town
no you aren't. you can say it a bazillion times but you aren't and you will probably be the lynch today if I have anything to say about it.

I'm probably being stupid here, but don't you want to lynch fitz at this point?

MarioManiac4 · Post Post #925 (isolation #43) » Mon May 08, 2017 6:50 pm

In post 923, Gamma Emerald wrote:
In post 922, MarioManiac4 wrote:
In post 893, Gamma Emerald wrote:I'm down with flash wagoning fitz
why? You were fine with letting him go a few posts ago.
In fact I looked through your ISO and there's barely any mention of Titus at all. Just a blank vote, one question you didn't seem to do anything with.
I changed my mind about letting him go since the tell I thought of went for his predecessor too.

did fitz already violate this tell?

MarioManiac4 · Post Post #927 (isolation #44) » Mon May 08, 2017 6:52 pm

?????
why did you change your mind then? am i being really obtuse or??

MarioManiac4 · Post Post #957 (isolation #45) » Tue May 09, 2017 8:22 am

In post 868, WhemeStar wrote:
In post 865, BigYoshiFan wrote:
In post 863, WhemeStar wrote:VOTE: Ircher

Then what about this dude
Why him?
I kinda think he's scum

Also mort is another one of my TR

can you try to explain this please wheme

MarioManiac4 · Post Post #1079 (isolation #46) » Wed May 10, 2017 6:24 am

In post 999, Ircher wrote:
Titus Evaluation

1. 38 --> Votes Mort cuz she doesn't like his responses -->
I disagree greatly with the assessment. His reads look fine imo and show a town thought process. It seems more like Titus is simpl trying to find something she can attack herself -- how ironic!

2. 171 --> Elaborates on Mort read; mainly states that Mort's stuff lacks depth and asks too many questions -->
Honestly, I still feel like Titus is trying to find things to attack; Titus made the original read about 1 1/2 pages into the game. So, w/ RVS et cetera, there isn't going to be a lot to analyze so questions won't have a lot of depth. While the # of Qs Mort asked was kinda high, I don't necessarily see it as scum-motivated.

3. 177 --> Admits reasoning was bad cuz trying to get things going -->
And this feels like Titus is distancing from her read. Had she said this way earlier, I might buy it, but this seems to be Titus thinking "Oops! I better try to play that read off as non-serious". I don't buy it at all.

4. 178 --> Mort/Yoshi pinged her as partners -->
This early in the game? I mean, 68 kinda pinged me as Titus / MMM being possible partners, but by no means did I see a solid association between the two. Unless Titus elaborates later, this association read feels superficial and an attempt to appear to have reads while simultaneously casting shade at another player.

5. 182 --> Transcend is weak town -->
I would like to note that this happened after Transcend said that town!Titus pretty much always defends him at this point in the game. Titus is obviously trying to keep her options open.

6. 387 --> Asks how Tarkus can see things as her on Mort despite not understanding Titus's posts -->
Different perspective perhaps? Feels like another shade-throwing attempt. Not to mention that Titus hasn't been too specific in her read, so it's pretty difficult to understand when one quotes zero evidence.

7. 408 --> Says town!Trans actually pressures people -->
What suggests he isn't? Also, I honestly don't see the difference between Transcend here and Transcend in 1900. Again, I think this is scum Titus keeping her options open.

So that is my not meta-based case on Titus.

VOTE: Ircher

I really don't like this post. It's like he's trying to interpret Titus' posts in the worst way possible.

Let's implement a post restriction; TwoFace and havingfitz may not talk to or about each other unless it's strictly related to scumhunting.

MarioManiac4 · Post Post #1085 (isolation #47) » Wed May 10, 2017 9:22 am

VOTE: WhemeStar

MarioManiac4 · Post Post #1087 (isolation #48) » Wed May 10, 2017 9:25 am

In post 1086, Gamma Emerald wrote:Why did you switch MM4?

I cannot see the thought process of
>claiming
>saying "I'm going to explain this scumread"
>proceeds to not explain scumread

MarioManiac4 · Post Post #1088 (isolation #49) » Wed May 10, 2017 9:25 am

*as town

MarioManiac4 · Post Post #1090 (isolation #50) » Wed May 10, 2017 9:27 am

I hate to use an overused wiki tell but it feels like he's taking refuge in audacity
he's doing nothing but the most random things that he knows won't help town

pedit: it's not really even an explanation
it's just "this post is scummy"

MarioManiac4 · Post Post #1093 (isolation #51) » Wed May 10, 2017 9:29 am

In post 1091, Gamma Emerald wrote:I think scum would actually try to avoid doing that type of attention drawing move

I don't think so
It doesn't help town whatsoever and that sort of thinking makes it beneficial for scum

MarioManiac4 · Post Post #1094 (isolation #52) » Wed May 10, 2017 9:29 am

???
why do you just claim vt tho
like wat

MarioManiac4 · Post Post #1096 (isolation #53) » Wed May 10, 2017 9:31 am

actually
VOTE: Ircher

MarioManiac4 · Post Post #1099 (isolation #54) » Wed May 10, 2017 9:38 am

In post 1098, TwoFace wrote:
In post 1096, MarioManiac4 wrote:actually
VOTE: Ircher
You're vote in wheme was the right one. Ircher is already 10xtownier cause that single post wheme called bad is better than all of wheme's posts combined. Probably better than transcend's posts also

it's probably more pro-town i'll give you that
but wheme playing somewhat randomly won't always make him scum
on the other hand, Ircher's post really feels like he is going through Titus' ISO and just picking out things he think he can push without any consideration of whether they actually come from scum

MarioManiac4 · Post Post #1149 (isolation #55) » Thu May 11, 2017 4:48 am

do you think ircher and wheme is a bus, fitz?

MarioManiac4 · Post Post #1151 (isolation #56) » Thu May 11, 2017 4:50 am

In post 1103, BigYoshiFan wrote:
In post 1101, WhemeStar wrote:
In post 1098, TwoFace wrote:
In post 1096, MarioManiac4 wrote:actually
VOTE: Ircher
You're vote in wheme was the right one. Ircher is already 10xtownier cause that single post wheme called bad is better than all of wheme's posts combined. Probably better than transcend's posts also
Eh I see it as Ircher trying to look like he's doing stuff but isn't really
Does the shade feel nice, Ircher?

ironically this post is throwing shade
he had already unvoted fitz, so if it was a scumread this post probably would have come with a vote?

MarioManiac4 · Post Post #1153 (isolation #57) » Thu May 11, 2017 4:52 am

nobody is pushing a counter to whemestar and it is making me uncomfortable

MarioManiac4 · Post Post #1157 (isolation #58) » Thu May 11, 2017 5:13 am

In post 1156, TwoFace wrote:
In post 1153, MarioManiac4 wrote:nobody is pushing a counter to whemestar and it is making me uncomfortable
Titus/Fitz was the original counter to Wheme/Transcend. you should have known that...

i'm talking about now not back then

MarioManiac4 · Post Post #1162 (isolation #59) » Thu May 11, 2017 5:21 am

In post 1158, WhemeStar wrote:
In post 1153, MarioManiac4 wrote:nobody is pushing a counter to whemestar and it is making me uncomfortable
IRcher

is on two votes, one of which is you.

(I feel like Wheme is town based on this post because I don't think he fights things that can help him as scum ftr)

MarioManiac4 · Post Post #1167 (isolation #60) » Thu May 11, 2017 5:26 am

In post 1163, TwoFace wrote:
In post 1157, MarioManiac4 wrote:
In post 1156, TwoFace wrote:
In post 1153, MarioManiac4 wrote:nobody is pushing a counter to whemestar and it is making me uncomfortable
Titus/Fitz was the original counter to Wheme/Transcend. you should have known that...
i'm talking about now not back then
well some people are pushing ircher, some want gamma. some players are inactive and time is also running out.

The fact that there was a counter to this slot at one point still means he could be scum just because there isn't a hard push for it now. If this slot is scum a hard push now could expose scum especially if townies aren't really pushing it.

then where are scum on ircher? I really don't see scum on Gamma either. If it's Frost/CDB then maybe?

pedit: wtf

MarioManiac4 · Post Post #1169 (isolation #61) » Thu May 11, 2017 5:28 am

alright i'm taking that as a scumclaim fuck me

I will be hammering Wheme tonight, speak now or forever hold your peace

MarioManiac4 · Post Post #1180 (isolation #62) » Thu May 11, 2017 5:38 am

ehhh
whemestar is townposting all over the thread and I would rather lynch ircher
can we lynch ircher

MarioManiac4 · Post Post #1182 (isolation #63) » Thu May 11, 2017 5:41 am

yeah there's the counter.
it's a town counter though!

MarioManiac4 · Post Post #1209 (isolation #64) » Thu May 11, 2017 6:30 am

Wheme selfvoting is town more than anything IMO.

MarioManiac4 · Post Post #1210 (isolation #65) » Thu May 11, 2017 6:30 am

also, "if i flip town" has slight motivation as town but i don't think scum would do it ever

MarioManiac4 · Post Post #1211 (isolation #66) » Thu May 11, 2017 6:32 am

like
his selfvote is bad af as scum and I can't see scum doing it ever
His selfvote was evidently not a scumclaim now and although it is bad I don't think it was scum at all
(im going to feel so stupid if wheme flips scum lmao)

MarioManiac4 · Post Post #1214 (isolation #67) » Thu May 11, 2017 6:35 am

transc/wheme slot has done anti-town things
but i think it's town

hypocrisy doesn't always come from scum btw

MarioManiac4 · Post Post #1218 (isolation #68) » Thu May 11, 2017 6:38 am

it's the way he did it
not that he did it

MarioManiac4 · Post Post #1221 (isolation #69) » Thu May 11, 2017 6:39 am

"HIS selfvote"
like jfc if you're going to attack me at least get your facts right

MarioManiac4 · Post Post #1224 (isolation #70) » Thu May 11, 2017 6:43 am

i'm not saying it's acceptable
i'm saying it looks town if anything

MarioManiac4 · Post Post #1230 (isolation #71) » Thu May 11, 2017 6:46 am

MarioManiac4 · Post Post #1486 (isolation #72) » Thu May 11, 2017 7:11 pm

jfc penguin is actually town

MarioManiac4 · Post Post #1487 (isolation #73) » Thu May 11, 2017 7:11 pm

(that wasn't aimed at anyone btw, just fustration that the main wagons all feel town)

MarioManiac4 · Post Post #1488 (isolation #74) » Thu May 11, 2017 7:12 pm

In post 1454, Ircher wrote:
We are lynching PP because despite how bad Wheme is, I can see both his and Transcend's play as coming from town, ever so slightly.

Anyone up for lynching Ircher yet?

MarioManiac4 · Post Post #1490 (isolation #75) » Thu May 11, 2017 7:31 pm

VOTE: Gamma Emerald
this is the best of the current wagons

MarioManiac4 · Post Post #1530 (isolation #76) » Fri May 12, 2017 4:17 am

In post 1457, PenguinPower wrote:@Hikrai: Yep. Because it doesn't make sense. But my vote is elsewhere for today, because you aren't nearly the scummiest, so how about you move on and maybe try to solidify a read.

In post 1439, PenguinPower wrote:Nope. Sorry. Nope.

In post 1427, PenguinPower wrote:
In post 1422, WhemeStar wrote:But if I do it as town every game, people will TR me for doing it when I'm scum
I will now lynch this regardless of alignment.

In post 1430, PenguinPower wrote:Not sure what you're talking about. I responded.

The dude trying to create a truth tell is more concerning right now.

All of this looks like frustrated town to me.
(inb4 scumteam is whemestar/penguin/tarkus)

My lynch list would be Ircher >> Gamma > RayFrost I guess.

MarioManiac4 · Post Post #1592 (isolation #77) » Fri May 12, 2017 7:08 pm

why are you blaming this gamestate on me
I have posted 78 times; that's more than once every page, and I have never got a prod ever. This gamestate is absolutely not down to "lack of content" or whatever; Gamma's been fine, I'm actually solidly townreading Tarkus based on understanding pretty much everything he says about his reads and POV, and it's not Ircher's fault that he is a scumlord.
I have been trying to have interactions. I've been wanting to drop the Wheme wagon- because it's probably on town. I've wanted to do the same with PP and I want to lynch Ircher. The thing is, when I try to get more actions than this (and I stand by that what I am doing is totally fine), I get something like "well stfu and let me catch up" or "shame on you" and I'm afraid that just immediately kills my motivation to interact MORE with people. Anyway, my activity is fine and I really don't want to have to deal with being shamed for it. Thanks.

-----

This town would rather lynch 1559 than 1573, 1454, and 1392 (which ends up with "Oh wait lol we have to lynch PP", and I guess I can't stop that. But I feel like Ircher's ISO speaks for itself. His case on Titus didn't read like analysing whether things meant town/scum, just whether things could be considered scummy. He apparently changed all of his reads from "willing to compromise" to "townreading 80% in the game, must lynch PP." and coming in to try and tell Mort that lurkers should always be lynched d1 on this site --- what?

VOTE: Ircher

With Mort's vote, I believe that is on the same level as Gamma.

MarioManiac4 · Post Post #1595 (isolation #78) » Fri May 12, 2017 7:28 pm

aaaaaah k i thought ircher wasn't on mort's list for some reason.
I still want to see if I can convince people to lynch Ircher- if not I'll switch back to Gamma i guess.

MarioManiac4 · Post Post #1598 (isolation #79) » Fri May 12, 2017 7:45 pm

MarioManiac4 · Post Post #1630 (isolation #80) » Sat May 13, 2017 5:01 am

mmm the point is that he went from "I don't have strong reads so I have to compromise" to "PP and wheme are basically modconfirmedscum" within two pages
you don't get solid read structures that way. this is what Titus did x10,000 and everyone is just ignoring it

MarioManiac4 · Post Post #1633 (isolation #81) » Sat May 13, 2017 5:05 am

In post 1631, MortFeld wrote:
In post 1630, MarioManiac4 wrote:mmm the point is that he went from "I don't have strong reads so I have to compromise" to "PP and wheme are basically modconfirmedscum" within two pages
you don't get solid read structures that way. this is what Titus did x10,000 and everyone is just ignoring it
I've said I think Fitz is scum. People are just scared to lynch potential watcher

I don't really think Fitz is scum tbh
What Titus did wasn't scummy because it was on a small scale- this is a complete and random change of viewpoint on the game in two pages

MarioManiac4 · Post Post #1634 (isolation #82) » Sat May 13, 2017 5:07 am

who do you even think is scum wheme?

MarioManiac4 · Post Post #1645 (isolation #83) » Sat May 13, 2017 6:13 am

it only took one townread for him to go from, "when my reads aren't very strong, I am generally okay w/ lynching anyone who isn't someone I'm against lynching." to basically declaring he cannot see pp as town whatsoever?

MarioManiac4 · Post Post #1649 (isolation #84) » Sat May 13, 2017 6:21 am

In post 1392, Ircher wrote:It's called compromise.

Also, when my reads aren't very strong, I am generally okay w/ lynching anyone who isn't someone I'm against lynching. Boring games contribute to those not-so-strong reads.

In post 1402, Ircher wrote:
In post 1166, WhemeStar wrote:VOTE: Me

Alright twoface let's do this
This actually makes me slightly tr Wheme -- I've seen quite a few self-votes but practically all of them have been town w/ the exception of self-hammers.

In post 1404, Ircher wrote:
In post 1177, WhemeStar wrote:
In post 1175, WhemeStar wrote:
In post 1173, TwoFace wrote:
In post 1166, WhemeStar wrote:VOTE: Me

Alright twoface let's do this
Oh I love when scum give up. Thanks.
No problem bud, how much will you yell at me when I flip town tho
If I flip town*
This also reads as town based on my experience w/ this stuff.

In post 1411, Ircher wrote:
In post 1216, havingfitz wrote:
In post 1211, MarioManiac4 wrote:like
his selfvote is bad af as scum and I can't see scum doing it ever
His selfvote was evidently not a scumclaim now and although it is bad I don't think it was scum at all
(im going to feel so stupid if wheme flips scum lmao)
Scum self voting is not uncommon. More often it's as a hammer to avoid discussion but I've seen non hammer scum self votes. For the reaction you're having.
Quote me some non-hammer examples.

In post 1421, Ircher wrote:
In post 1412, WhemeStar wrote:Soooo Ircher why you fine with voting me, and then have me as a slight toweread???

Please explain good sir.
I said that before I read those posts.

My reads have changed, and I no longer feel as confident in lynching you right now.

In post 1426, Ircher wrote:No, it becomes NAI when you do it as scum as well.

Pedt: I wonder as well....

In post 1435, Ircher wrote:
In post 1431, TwoFace wrote:
In post 1428, Hikari Link wrote:Wheme, if I'm understanding correctly, you are handicapping your town game so that you aren't obvious as scum. I feel like you would be better served elevating your scum game. Better to be an asset to your team than to be a hindrance.
Half of the players on this site are doing this. ive been saying this since i got here. Players don't know how to play as scum so they dumb down their town play so they can skate by as scum.

It's why people get mad at me for pushing scummy people and being wrong. They should be mad at the people playing bad but whatever.
Yeah, it is an issue when players intentionally do it. But I always assume good faith.

In post 1454, Ircher wrote:
We are lynching PP because despite how bad Wheme is, I can see both his and Transcend's play as coming from town, ever so slightly.

all of the read-related posting between Ircher's "unsure" post and "PP is basically modconfirmed scum" post is that he got a townread on wheme

MarioManiac4 · Post Post #1651 (isolation #85) » Sat May 13, 2017 6:28 am

In post 1454, Ircher wrote:
We are lynching PP because despite how bad Wheme is, I can see both his and Transcend's play as coming from town, ever so slightly.

If PP is a better lynch than someone who could only be seen as town "ever so slightly" what does that say about him?

MarioManiac4 · Post Post #1655 (isolation #86) » Sat May 13, 2017 6:41 am

In post 1652, BigYoshiFan wrote:That his read on PP is worse than a slight townread? Also, perhaps it was also to encourage people off Wheme's lynchbait wagon.

that doesn't indicate a slight townread though
it indicates that wheme was just about not confirmed scum- "i can see it coming from town, ever so slightly."

MarioManiac4 · Post Post #1656 (isolation #87) » Sat May 13, 2017 6:41 am

Let's all modkill each other.

MarioManiac4 · Post Post #1659 (isolation #88) » Sat May 13, 2017 6:54 am

In post 1657, MMM wrote:
In post 1655, MarioManiac4 wrote:
In post 1652, BigYoshiFan wrote:That his read on PP is worse than a slight townread? Also, perhaps it was also to encourage people off Wheme's lynchbait wagon.
that doesn't indicate a slight townread though
it indicates that wheme was just about not confirmed scum- "i can see it coming from town, ever so slightly."
My interpretation is "Yes Wheme is scummy, but I can see town do what he did - PP is also scummy, but I can't see town doing what he is doing"

yeah- that's a hard scumread on PP

MarioManiac4 · Post Post #1661 (isolation #89) » Sat May 13, 2017 7:00 am

i like that someone else has to explain what i'm saying for people to get it

MarioManiac4 · Post Post #1664 (isolation #90) » Sat May 13, 2017 7:22 am

In post 1663, MMM wrote:I like that I still don't get it.
Wait, no, I don't like it at all, what am I saying.
No but literally I'm staring at this for half an hour and I just don't get it.

I'm pretty sure not even being able to see town doing what someone is doing means you have a hard scumread on that person?
Or are you talking about something else?

MarioManiac4 · Post Post #1666 (isolation #91) » Sat May 13, 2017 7:23 am

It happens to me outside mafia
you get used to it

MarioManiac4 · Post Post #1668 (isolation #92) » Sat May 13, 2017 7:46 am

ok ok
so
Ircher can ever so slightly see Wheme being town, right?
So this implies he has a scumread on Wheme. But he thinks Wheme could technically be town.
PP does not have this benefit. Therefore, we can assume that he does not think PP could technically be town.
Therefore, Ircher has a heavy scumread on PenguinPower.

MarioManiac4 · Post Post #1672 (isolation #93) » Sat May 13, 2017 8:06 am

In post 1669, MMM wrote:I got to the bit where he heavily scum reads him.
What's so bad about it?

two pages ago he was incredibly uncertain
now he not only has a strong scumread on PenguinPower, but he has also expressed a rather heavy scumread on WhemeStar, when his opinion of Wheme only improved

so its like
page x:
i am uncertain about my reads here

*wheme gets townier*
page y (y=x+2):
wheme is almost certainly scum
PP is certainly scum

it makes no sense and it feels like he's jumping around here, trying to get on wagons with growing momentum- there's no continuity behind his reads

MarioManiac4 · Post Post #1677 (isolation #94) » Sat May 13, 2017 8:23 am

In post 1454, Ircher wrote:
We are lynching PP because despite how bad Wheme is, I can see both his and Transcend's play as coming from town, ever so slightly.

if you can't see play as coming from town, it has to be scum right?

MarioManiac4 · Post Post #1679 (isolation #95) » Sat May 13, 2017 8:28 am

what does context have to do with not being able to see a player as town?

MarioManiac4 · Post Post #1683 (isolation #96) » Sat May 13, 2017 8:37 am

ahhhh i don't get it
if you explicitly say that you cannot see PP as town
how does that

not

mean you have a hard scumread on him

MarioManiac4 · Sat May 13, 2017 10:11 am

can someone explain this to me like i'm 4

MarioManiac4 · Sat May 13, 2017 11:12 am

VOTE: RayFrost

MarioManiac4 · Post Post #1765 (isolation #99) » Sat May 13, 2017 7:51 pm

yo guys
I wanted my RF vote to get content, since really it's mostly an empty slot and shouldn't have had too much resistance- so I could look for people who were reacting awkwardly
but RF decided to do things so it didn't work out
UNVOTE:

MarioManiac4 · Sat May 13, 2017 9:20 pm

like
rayfrost isn't a shitty vote for today
he and -grey- are more than capable of producing content that looks somewhat like hunting
but i don't think it's the best vote either.

MarioManiac4 · Sat May 13, 2017 9:45 pm

In post 1767, Gamma Emerald wrote:Have you seen RF play?

no but pretty much every non-newbie can post content like that
what i'm trying to say is that after thinking about it grey wasn't really all that town + you're all getting ahead of yourselves with the frost read

MarioManiac4 · Sat May 13, 2017 10:40 pm

im not discrediting crap lmao

MarioManiac4 · Sat May 13, 2017 11:02 pm

the point was that everyone was going "frost is town" for no reason
and i don't want to lose because of that

MarioManiac4 · Sat May 13, 2017 11:09 pm

gamma emerald has been jumpy this game and changed his reads, yes
i don't think that makes him scum though

MarioManiac4 · Sat May 13, 2017 11:12 pm

In post 1785, RayFrost wrote:Then enlighten me on who you think
is
scum.

Is it still ircher?

So far, yup.

MarioManiac4 · Sat May 13, 2017 11:14 pm

^ the third point is good
i don't think the other three make much sense

MarioManiac4 · Sun May 14, 2017 3:27 am

VOTE: Ircher
forgot to do this, thx for reminder

MarioManiac4 · Mon May 15, 2017 5:02 am

Tarkus, TwoFace, and havingfitz are in need of a prod.
This game is dead. Let's lynch Ircher.

MarioManiac4 · Mon May 15, 2017 5:16 am

We have one day left?
VOTE: WhemeStar
if we get a lynch this is probably going to be it
also he's already claimed so we don't run the risk of outing PRs

MarioManiac4 · Mon May 15, 2017 6:08 am

VOTE: Ircher
Before going to sleep today, I will switch to WS (if irch isn't viable)

MarioManiac4 · Mon May 15, 2017 9:30 am

VOTE: WhemeStar
my descent into tiredness begins here so i'm going to put this on wheme
if by any chance ircher picks up in about ~9 hours expect me to add my vote
cya

MarioManiac4 · Mon May 15, 2017 9:32 am

In post 1826, WhemeStar wrote:Scummy bad

no u

MarioManiac4 · Mon May 15, 2017 9:34 am

Not really "know" more like, "think"
But aside from that, yeah pretty much

MarioManiac4 · Mon May 15, 2017 9:36 am

In post 1830, WhemeStar wrote:Yeah and that's scummy bad

Not really!

MarioManiac4 · Mon May 15, 2017 6:46 pm

i think tarkus +2-face still need prods

VOTE: Ircher
all of this wagon hopping is making me sick

MarioManiac4 · Tue May 16, 2017 4:28 am

VOTE: WhemeStar

MarioManiac4 · Fri May 19, 2017 7:29 am

VOTE: MMM

MarioManiac4 · Fri May 19, 2017 8:14 am

VOTE: havingfitz
Im phoneposting and will explain MMM vote later

MarioManiac4 · Fri May 19, 2017 8:20 am

No miller 2shot watcher claim
I am disappoint

MMM vote was largely on him going way too far into the nightkill for town

MarioManiac4 · Sun May 21, 2017 8:49 am

Life makes no sense and I'm about to cry.
Who's with me?

VOTE: MMM

MarioManiac4 · Sun May 21, 2017 8:52 am

don't question it man we don't want the awesome bussing tactic to get roasted
also kelvin what was your result?

MarioManiac4 · Sun May 21, 2017 9:43 am

Sorry to hear that KS

MarioManiac4 · Sun May 21, 2017 10:48 am

can it really just be as simple as MMM and ircher

MarioManiac4 · Sun May 21, 2017 5:54 pm

In post 2031, MMM wrote:
In post 2025, MarioManiac4 wrote:can it really just be as simple as MMM and ircher
Yes of course it's that simple, why bother letting people explain shit when you already know scum with as much confidence as a cop with an inspect on everyone?

that isn't what i said and you know it

MarioManiac4 · Sun May 21, 2017 5:57 pm

note how ircher's readlist has a lack of clear statements of what is town/scum, instead using "anti-town", "bad", "dismissive"- he's trying to comment on things he doesn't need to comment on and it makes it seem like he's doing more than he actually is

MarioManiac4 · Sun May 21, 2017 6:00 pm

like my point with my MMM vote was him going really far really quickly and trying to draw the conclusion, "What I think we gain from this is, based on scum killing him for read accuracy:
- Gamma, Mario, PP, Fitz, Tarkus and Ircher are good places to look for scum
- Yoshi, Kelvin and me (I mean, duh) are town [this does not line up with my previous read on Yoshi - I'll need to re-evaluate him]"
it feels really forced and I really don't think town!MMM can guess what scum is trying to do with the MF nightkill

MarioManiac4 · Sun May 21, 2017 6:22 pm

like
"- Gamma, Mario, PP, Fitz, Tarkus and Ircher are good places to look for scum" that is not a conclusion
"- Yoshi, Kelvin and me (I mean, duh) are town" that just is not good at all

MarioManiac4 · Sun May 21, 2017 6:36 pm

In post 2033, BigYoshiFan wrote:
In post 2010, MarioManiac4 wrote: MMM vote was largely on him going way too far into the nightkill for town
We talked about this before, but you know those moments where you stare at something for like... 30 minutes and you still don't understand what they're saying.

riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiip
well it's like, he's analysing the nightkill first and foremost, making a lot of logical jumps and axioms and applying them to logic, coming up with a lynchpool of 6 and establishing himself as town? is that a better explanation for it?

MarioManiac4 · Sun May 21, 2017 6:49 pm

In post 2032, MMM wrote:
In post 2010, MarioManiac4 wrote:No miller 2shot watcher claim
I am disappoint

MMM vote was largely on him going way too far into the nightkill for town
http://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/thr ... 2-PM-2-2-9 Have a read through day 1 and tell me NKA is a bad idea.

???
i uh read through d1
and
nothing was there?

MarioManiac4 · Mon May 22, 2017 4:41 am

VOTE: Ircher

MarioManiac4 · Mon May 22, 2017 8:06 am

It also really confuses me that MMM went into so much depth over a MortFeld kill, but completely ignores killing a doublevoter over a cop.
...
Am I the only one here?

MarioManiac4 · Mon May 22, 2017 10:20 am

In post 2113, Ircher wrote:
In post 2104, MarioManiac4 wrote:note how ircher's readlist has a lack of clear statements of what is town/scum, instead using "anti-town", "bad", "dismissive"- he's trying to comment on things he doesn't need to comment on and it makes it seem like he's doing more than he actually is
No.

The word usage is done the way its done because what may appear to be "scummy" may not be indicative of scum and vice-versa.

if you don't think they're scummy why are you talking about them?

MarioManiac4 · Mon May 22, 2017 7:57 pm

In post 2117, Ircher wrote:
In post 2114, MarioManiac4 wrote:
In post 2113, Ircher wrote:
In post 2104, MarioManiac4 wrote:note how ircher's readlist has a lack of clear statements of what is town/scum, instead using "anti-town", "bad", "dismissive"- he's trying to comment on things he doesn't need to comment on and it makes it seem like he's doing more than he actually is
No.

The word usage is done the way its done because what may appear to be "scummy" may not be indicative of scum and vice-versa.
if you don't think they're scummy why are you talking about them?
Because one thing doesn't make a read. It's the entire picture that makes the read; I note anything that catches my attention and at the end, I evaluate what my true read there is.

if it isn't scummy, it doesn't make a read
you're refusing to see anyone as town and scum and it's really making me scumread you

MarioManiac4 · Tue May 23, 2017 6:13 am

| - let's get some votes
| -

MarioManiac4 · Tue May 23, 2017 8:56 am

MarioManiac4 · Tue May 23, 2017 7:52 pm

VOTE: Gamma Emerald
poeioe

MarioManiac4 · Tue May 23, 2017 7:52 pm

that's l1

MarioManiac4 · Tue May 23, 2017 7:58 pm

if you are a pr and have not claimed-- now is the time to do so

MarioManiac4 · Wed May 24, 2017 9:23 am

Warning: This post will be Setup Speculation™ because I'm bad at scumhunting.
uhhh ok so I could see this;
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Town Miller Doublevoter
Town 2-Shot Gunsmith
Town Odd-Night Cop
Town Even-Night Doctor
scum
scum
Mafia 2-Shot Roleblocker
---
^ if you have a role that makes this setup false
you absolutely need to claim now
otherwise I'm calling {Kelvin, Ircher, RayFrost, PP} as all town so scum has to be between {Gamma, MMM, Priscila} with an outside chance of scumdoc PP or even scumtraitor i guess
but i read tarkus as hardtown because I understood his entire view of the game (priscila is largely null)
I'm leaning scum on MMM but it's clear nobody wants to wagon him
Gamma could well be scum (just from gut, I did say I was a bad mafia player- heed my warnings

) and also opportunism is optimal as town so that's where I'm voting today

MarioManiac4 · Wed May 24, 2017 9:46 am

that isn't always true there's always a chance of PP!scum but I'm reading him as town independently of that
I'm fine with gamma or MMM- I wouldn't fight Priscila but i did townread tarkus

MarioManiac4 · Wed May 24, 2017 9:54 am

"i read tarkus as hardtown because I understood his entire view of the game"
like every post he made i could understand where he was coming from, from a town POV

MarioManiac4 · Wed May 24, 2017 7:03 pm

In post 2274, Priscila wrote:
In post 2266, MarioManiac4 wrote:but i read tarkus as hardtown because I understood his entire view of the game (priscila is largely null)
How on earth am I largely null?

because i don't see anything from you that would swing me one way or another
grey's original townread was for offending people when he didn't need to

MarioManiac4 · Wed May 24, 2017 7:04 pm

ohhhhhh i forgot about byf
uhhh i guess this isn't autowin
i'd still rather lynch gamma over yoshi tho

MarioManiac4 · Wed May 24, 2017 7:19 pm

In post 2327, Priscila wrote:It is in fact autowin, presuming the mod did not troll us with a mafia doctor - I find this highly highly unlikely.

it's autowin if you are town and we don't lynch you AND there is no mafia doctor
all three of those are heavy assumptions
it's like saying "alright we have 5 players left. Assuming X is town, Y is town and Z is town, it's autowin."

also mafia doctor is not trolling
the entire point of the gunsmith is that its results aren't always accurate
although I'm townreading PP independently
also a Mafia Traitor might explain the roleblocker- and they don't have guns either

MarioManiac4 · Wed May 24, 2017 7:21 pm

remember- the existence of a false negative doesn't mean we have triggered it
it's possible that, say, BYF is a mafia doctor

MarioManiac4 · Wed May 24, 2017 7:33 pm

In post 2331, Priscila wrote:I am town and I am not getting lynched, so don't worry about that.

If you're a PR then you need to claim right now because that means we have scum in the PR claims.

MarioManiac4 · Thu May 25, 2017 3:40 am

In post 2337, MMM wrote:
In post 2103, MarioManiac4 wrote:
In post 2031, MMM wrote:
In post 2025, MarioManiac4 wrote:can it really just be as simple as MMM and ircher
Yes of course it's that simple, why bother letting people explain shit when you already know scum with as much confidence as a cop with an inspect on everyone?
that isn't what i said and you know it
Yeah what you said was more along the lines of "hey let's chain 1 or 2 mislynches without bothering to do anything else"

ok
so what i meant by that was, "can it really just be as simple as my top two scumreads"
as in, i didn't think my top two scumreads could be correct
and i was right because ircher is basically confirmed town

MarioManiac4 · Thu May 25, 2017 3:42 am

In post 2338, MMM wrote:
In post 2107, MarioManiac4 wrote:like
"- Gamma, Mario, PP, Fitz, Tarkus and Ircher are good places to look for scum" that is not a conclusion
"- Yoshi, Kelvin and me (I mean, duh) are town" that just is not good at all
1. Of course it's not a conclusion. That was supposed to be a starting point and nothing else.
2. Don't be a Transcend. Elaborate. (if you do this later then nvm)

1. it's literally just throwing out a pool of MORE THAN HALF OF THE ALIVE PLAYERS to "look for scum" in- like, i'm not sure i'm comfortable with you making that the "starting point"
2. You're going into the nightkill and calling yourself town because of it how is that not gross

MarioManiac4 · Thu May 25, 2017 5:23 am

In post 2373, RayFrost wrote:Typically, gunsmith would not result in a "has a gun" for jailkeeper as far as I know.

Mod: By your definition of role interactions, if a gunsmith were to inspect a hypothetical jailkeeper, would it result in a result of having a gun or would it result in not having a gun?

As this is a purely hypothetical scenario that can't happen anyway given my two shots being up,

"In Normal games on mafiascum.net, a Gunsmith gets guilties on all Mafia (except Traitors and Doctors), Cops, Vigilantes, Gunsmiths, Role Cops, Vanilla Cops, Backups of roles with guns and JoATs that have any of these listed powers."
As this is a Normal game, you would not get a Gun result on a Jailkeeper- if this was the case your role would be greylisted and you would have been notified of this in your PM. However, you would have got a Gun result on Kelvin Smith (as he is a Cop.)

MarioManiac4 · Thu May 25, 2017 7:24 am

In post 2375, Gamma Emerald wrote:
In post 2329, MarioManiac4 wrote:
In post 2327, Priscila wrote:It is in fact autowin, presuming the mod did not troll us with a mafia doctor - I find this highly highly unlikely.
it's autowin if you are town and we don't lynch you AND there is no mafia doctor
all three of those are heavy assumptions
it's like saying "alright we have 5 players left. Assuming X is town, Y is town and Z is town, it's autowin."

also mafia doctor is not trolling
the entire point of the gunsmith is that its results aren't always accurate
although I'm townreading PP independently
also a Mafia Traitor might explain the roleblocker- and they don't have guns either
No RBs have guns, unless the last mod I had to use GS was an idiot

no it's just that RB is heavy scum power and having a traitor might balance it out
i could see 2-shot RB/2-shot Rolecop/Traitor

MarioManiac4 · Fri May 26, 2017 10:34 pm

they wouldn't have known who the protective role is
also seeing this thread reminded me that i really should be doing more things so i'll do that

MarioManiac4 · Fri May 26, 2017 10:38 pm

UNVOTE:

i'm really starting to doubt that gamma is actually scum

MarioManiac4 · Fri May 26, 2017 10:44 pm

In post 2412, Priscila wrote:They would hunt for it. If they did not know that Kelvin was gated and feared protection, their utmost priority would be to kill that protection so they could kill the cop. It makes no sense at all to kill a known non-protective when there is a cop that can be getting results.

I am doubting my Gamma read also.

i'm thinking the chances of guessing the protective are so low that they would just shoot the doublevoter
i still like my theory of 2-shot rolecop/2-shot roleblocker/mafia traitor, however

i'm also starting to think there is no world in which both you and yoshi are town

MarioManiac4 · Fri May 26, 2017 10:46 pm

like i'm not feeling a bigyoshifan/gamma emerald team at all and I townread PP
I'm also pretty sure the risk scum in PR claims is marginal
i'm thinking MMM is probably scum (although that may change with his catchup in which case it might be gamma?) and the buddy is one of you and BYF

MarioManiac4 · Fri May 26, 2017 10:48 pm

actually i like BYFscum+priscilatown more than MMMscum+gammatown
VOTE: BigYoshiFan

MarioManiac4 · Sat May 27, 2017 4:24 am

i feel like MMM would've tried to forge a lot more interactions with Gamma if they're both scum
i think MMM setting up Gamma as a fall guy/MMM just never really having to interact with Gamma are both more likely probabilities

MarioManiac4 · Sat May 27, 2017 7:08 pm

UNVOTE:
If we don't get a Kelvin replacement today, we don't get any PR clears.
If we do, Scum get two viable choices -> Kill Kelvin or Kill Ircher. If they choose to kill Ircher (which they won't) Kelvin will die. If they choose to kill Kelvin, Ircher gets a free jailkeep the next night. So basically, we need a Kelvin replacement who won't be able to do anything. #theherowedeserve

MarioManiac4 · Sun May 28, 2017 7:29 pm

Town

Kelvin Smith
Ircher
RayFrost
PenguinPower
Priscila/Gamma Emerald
MMM
Yoshi

Scum

MarioManiac4 · Sun May 28, 2017 8:00 pm

PP doesn't have a gun.

MarioManiac4 · Sun May 28, 2017 8:08 pm

In post 2461, Kelvin Smith wrote:Well then, looks like we've tentatively got it narrowed down to 4.

Really now your slot is filled, I'm ready to lynch one of those four. This game is dying.
VOTE: BigYoshiFan

MarioManiac4 · Sun May 28, 2017 8:09 pm

I would actually be extremely surprised if mafia didn't have a way to counter the gunsmith here for the record. I think a doctor is far less likely than traitor here though because of fitz's flip.

MarioManiac4 · Sun May 28, 2017 10:41 pm

The miller and the lack of town power without you.

MarioManiac4 · Sun May 28, 2017 10:50 pm

In post 2468, Kelvin Smith wrote:Perhaps the real Cop or other investigative role is holding back to gather more info?

We have massclaimed. Why would they hold back when they could get a scum lynched and we have asked all to claim?

MarioManiac4 · Mon May 29, 2017 12:17 am

In post 2470, Kelvin Smith wrote:
In post 2469, MarioManiac4 wrote:
In post 2468, Kelvin Smith wrote:Perhaps the real Cop or other investigative role is holding back to gather more info?
We have massclaimed. Why would they hold back when they could get a scum lynched and we have asked all to claim?
Because a counterclaim is a 1-for-1 trade that arguably gives scum more information than town. If I was scum, a real Cop would potentially be better off not counterclaiming, since he could spend several more Nights getting results. And if he ever got NKed, it would confirm me as scum anyway, so tha wouldn't be a concern.

A 1 for 1 trade benefits town immensely. And it is only 2 mislynches before LYLO. There are 9 players left in the game. If there is any unclaimed PR and they don't claim now, they get lynched later.

MarioManiac4 · Mon May 29, 2017 12:35 am

VOTE: Kelvin Smith

MarioManiac4 · Mon May 29, 2017 12:36 am

Well it'd just be rude to not vote him after he asked so politely!

MarioManiac4 · Mon May 29, 2017 12:38 am

VOTE: Yoshi

MarioManiac4 · Mon May 29, 2017 6:29 am

The priority for players in the lynchpool is determining whether PP/Ray/me are scum.
I really don't see BYF/Gamma. And I think Priscila is far more town than MMM. I'm finding it harder and harder to see MMM as town honestly.
VOTE: MMM
Let's see where this vote goes.

MarioManiac4 · Mon May 29, 2017 9:52 am

I feel like if BYF was scum MMM/Priscila would be resisting his lynch more.

MarioManiac4 · Mon May 29, 2017 6:53 pm

I would like to note that my vote remains on MMM.

MarioManiac4 · Tue May 30, 2017 9:00 am

VOTE: BigYoshiFan
no other lynch is happening and I really don't mind this whatsoever

yeah that's l1

MarioManiac4 · Tue May 30, 2017 7:36 pm

nah is PP actually scum tho

MarioManiac4 · Tue May 30, 2017 7:41 pm

In post 2553, Kelvin Smith wrote:
In post 2552, MarioManiac4 wrote:nah is PP actually scum tho
Technically possible.

In post 2542, PenguinPower wrote:Like that Ray is on it. Don't like Gamma is on it. Like that Priscilla isn't on it. Don't like his reads.

VOTE: BigYoshiFan.

I'm like 99% sure that if I picked up a dictionary and looked up "shit hammer" I would find this post.

MarioManiac4 · Tue May 30, 2017 7:43 pm

In post 2555, Kelvin Smith wrote:You guys should tell me who to Cop and I will probably ignore the fuck out of it. Plus I'm totally gonna die. But just for shits and giggles, you should do it.

Cop ircher

MarioManiac4 · Tue May 30, 2017 7:45 pm

In post 2557, Kelvin Smith wrote:It's a shit hammer, but to be fair, it's been a pretty shit game so far.

I don't think that's going to change.
To be honest I actually had a lot more fun playing this than most mafia games from late d1 to the present but

MarioManiac4 · Fri Jun 02, 2017 3:37 am

VOTE: MMM

MarioManiac4 · Fri Jun 02, 2017 6:29 am

VOTE: RayFrost

MarioManiac4 · Fri Jun 02, 2017 8:02 am

Probably because that's a completely silly theory.
That said PP's hammer was pretty terrible.

MarioManiac4 · Fri Jun 02, 2017 8:08 am

I'm glad we agree.

MarioManiac4 · Fri Jun 02, 2017 7:00 pm

Jesus christ no.
Mafia don't have two roleblockers here. That's just bad. RBs are very powerful. They would NOT be given them to counter a gunsmith (instead, a doc/traitor), gated cop, and gated jailkeeper.
The ONLY way RayFrost's claim here could EVER be real is if Priscila is a Mafia Ascetic. Even then, 3-shot gunsmith is a BS role. Has 3-shot even ever been used in a Mini Normal at all?

MarioManiac4 · Fri Jun 02, 2017 7:02 pm

In post 2590, RayFrost wrote:I'd also like to point out that if I were scum there's no real motivation to make the post that I did given you guys had already believed my previous claim. Usually modifications like those would come if people were wanting me dead, not when people were like "okay we can write ray off for now"

I mean yeah. It's a bad move as scum. But you clearly feel you can WIFOM out of it anyhow, so that doesn't matter so much.

MarioManiac4 · Sat Jun 03, 2017 1:20 am

No I'm not a robot.

MarioManiac4 · Sat Jun 03, 2017 1:25 am

yeah I haven't played mafia for a while I had no idea 3-shot was actually a thing. that said- that game did have a theme of shots which this game doesn't have. (mafia gunsmith could also get a positive on the cop?)
anyway- my point stands that unless i am being stupid and missing something major the only way you are town is if priscila is a mafia ascetic. obviously town roleblocker/scum rb could go together in some fashion. but roleblocker is a very powerful role in scum hands. two scum roleblockers would make about as much sense as a flying camel in this setup.

MarioManiac4 · Sat Jun 03, 2017 1:27 am

like purely on reads alone i'd just purge mmm today and even now there is something to be said for that.
but i don't see tarkus/priscila being scum really and i also don't like the theories you are making to avoid having to 1v1 her.
idk maybe i'm just being extremely dumb. but fmpov ray is the best lynch today.

MarioManiac4 · Sat Jun 03, 2017 2:12 am

Only way is that Ircher is just JK and jailed you

MarioManiac4 · Sat Jun 03, 2017 2:33 am

I'm on phone. I'll respond on PC because it will take a while.

MarioManiac4 · Sat Jun 03, 2017 2:34 am

In post 2605, MMM wrote:I thought about the possibility that maybe Ircher is Odd but then there's no way Kelvin could have died.

Mario don't ignore me pls.

Since KS would just be regular conftown at that point it is possible Ircher tried to use his JK offensively.

MarioManiac4 · Sat Jun 03, 2017 2:36 am

UNVOTE:
I hope Ircher just lied because neither RF or Priscila makes sense as scum.

MarioManiac4 · Sat Jun 03, 2017 2:47 am

I thought about it more. I'll explain that on PC too.

MarioManiac4 · Sat Jun 03, 2017 5:19 am

In the end RF is right. There is no motivation to do that as scum really. Like, I get it if he WIFOM'd out of something by saying "it's too risky" and there was a gain he got by doing it. But really it would just be insane. RayFrost was very widely townread. And town is still underpowered without him. And the NRG has a pretty high standard for town power.

Yet I still can't see Priscila as scum. Not only would that mean Tarkus was scum but in order for the investigation to be correct Priscila would have to be Ascetic and considering the RB that's just way too unlikely.

Ircher jailing RF has to be it.

I'll do my MMM case soon as well

MarioManiac4 · Sat Jun 03, 2017 5:47 am

Alright.
There are 7 players alive. {MM4, PP, Ircher, Priscila, MMM, RayFrost, Gamma}
Realistic pool is more like {PP, MMM} for me.
Ircher is JK (prob a full one) and his claim #works
Priscila genuinely seems to be scumhunting and Tarkus was obvtown.
Town is too underpowered without RF+ no scum motivation to do what he did.
Gamma feels kinda town although there admittedly is a chance he's actually scum.
PP was inno'd by RF but his hammer was shitcity and he has been laying back and not scumhunting at all.

MMM hasn't been inno'd at all.
The first point I'd make (although I'm guessing you're all bored by it) is MMM's NKA. Like, it rested on a really heavy number of assumptions "scum killed MF because he was weak scumreading them", "MF definitely wasn't scumreading ANY mafia" etc. and it feels really out of place. And it feels gross that he basically used it to pull himself out of the lynch pool.
He had Titus as scum D1 but never really pushed her- and in fact attacks BYF's case on Titus later.
"1. Is that supposed to translate to "don't lynch me after I mislynch Gamma/MMM"?"- this really pings me because it's such a huge stretch and is hugely pedantic
I don't see him evaluating PP/me which should pretty much be the top priority for town in his position

it's not incredibly strong but there are a great number of players I find it hard to see as scum
MMM is not one of them

MarioManiac4 · Sat Jun 03, 2017 9:35 am

Elaborate on how Tarkus was obvtown?

p/ sure i already said this in more detail, but i see everything he did from a genuine town perspective

MMM hasn't been inno'd at all.
"he hasn't been innod so he must be scum"

nope- just mentioning that it made you more lynchable than PP who is my other non-townread

The first point I'd make (although I'm guessing you're all bored by it) is MMM's NKA. Like, it rested on a really heavy number of assumptions "scum killed MF because he was weak scumreading them", "MF definitely wasn't scumreading ANY mafia" etc. and it feels really out of place. And it feels gross that he basically used it to pull himself out of the lynch pool.

I've explained before the reason I did it is because he was not the most widely town read player - by all accounts that should have been Kelvin.

or not. MF was also widely townread. it's possible they thought he was a power role, etc.

Especially now that we have confirmed Kelvin is indeed town, my NKA holds. It made me question BYF's alignment (and rightfully so) and led me to a scum pool which currently consists of one confirmed scum, one basically confirmed town, and 4 people who are nowhere near clear

If you name a pool of 6 people, scum being inside it is not a massive shock.

As for excluding myself of the lynch pool... that's not scum motivated no matter how the hell you look at it unless you're implying town should WANT to be lynched and is a pathetic thing to say.

but manipulating things to make you seem like town is scum-motivated

And please do list the other heavy assumptions I made - I see one.

1. The reason Mafia killed MortFeld was because he was weakly scumreading one of their members.
2. Posts like 705 or 1569 would make Mafia want to nightkill Mort
3. You're assuming Mafia are not just killing people who are suspicious of them, but those who HAVE been suspicious of them. For example, MF wasn't suspicious of me near the end of today; he eases off in posts like 1641 and questions RF's scumread of me in 1733.

Granted there are only three big assumptions but they are all pretty major.

He had Titus as scum D1 but never really pushed her- and in fact attacks BYF's case on Titus later.
Titus went from scummy to null to scummy (after the Fitz claim), and I believe that you're incorrect in that I didn't push her. In fact I was the first to reaction test her (from which I got scum vibes), I later pressured her to explain why she thought Mort was scum, etc. I ended up not voting fitz before the L-1 and claim because I felt it was dumb at the time and even if Ircher did end up being right about it, I didn't see a good case at the time, and was, as you know, busy with someone else.

Yeah, there's no real way to tell whether this is true or whether you weakened up because you are scum with Titus so let's just drop this.

"1. Is that supposed to translate to "don't lynch me after I mislynch Gamma/MMM"?"- this really pings me because it's such a huge stretch and is hugely pedantic
"this really pings me because it sounds like he scum reads me"
ftfy

My point stands.

I don't see him evaluating PP/me which should pretty much be the top priority for town in his position
See I wanted to do that with the reread but ended up not having much time for it/you decided to hammer before I could actually do it. And now you're accusing me of not doing it?

[/quote]
Nah, you did have time to do it. Actually- why not do it now?

Honestly I know my MMM case is pretty unconvincing but I do feel like he's the only one not ringing any townbells for me and there is literally no other case around. (Actually, I reread some of early game and got the strong temptation to lynch Gamma, but I can't put my finger on why.)

MarioManiac4 · Sat Jun 03, 2017 10:41 am

I didn't hammer shit and don't feel like having a wallpost battle. we weren't lynching anyone other than byf yesterday anyway.
the three assumptions are not the same thing at all.
you calling my uncertainty scummy at all is still hugely pedantic.
and i don't know what lynch is supposed to be a better alternative to yours.
(sorry if this post sounds rude/abrasive, that's not the intention- i just don't feel like being wordy right now)

MarioManiac4 · Sat Jun 03, 2017 11:19 am

we had a week but our lynch was already decided.
i agree that we need to wait for ircher but i'm worried about how long that might take and don't want to waste discussion time for it
mmm, from what we have right now, who's scum?

MarioManiac4 · Sat Jun 03, 2017 11:24 am

UNVOTE:
holy shit mmm is actually town

MarioManiac4 · Sat Jun 03, 2017 11:27 am

That would actually make more sense than anything else if Ircher is actually Even-Night JK. Or mebbe not because town would still be underpowered. idk.
gamma, who's scum?

MarioManiac4 · Sat Jun 03, 2017 11:32 am

In post 2628, Gamma Emerald wrote:No clue
Still townread you, no reason to SR Ircher or PP rn
Why do you say MMM is town?

because his recent posts are obvious town. like, they leak town perspective. my reasons for scumreading him were kinda off as well.
Ircher is confirmed town pretty much. PP's hammer was awful. You should look at it and tell me what you find?

MarioManiac4 · Sat Jun 03, 2017 11:36 am

Does that mean I get to be conftown for calling Ircher a doctor

MarioManiac4 · Sun Jun 04, 2017 6:02 am

So RayFrost is confirmed town.