Mini Normal 1908 - In The Web (Game Over)

[TwoFace]

The mod did make a post somewhere that implied trickery so that's why I unvoted fitz. Still don't believe him though

[TwoFace]

Let's implement a post restriction; TwoFace and havingfitz may not talk to or about each other unless it's strictly related to scumhunting

I mean I basically said that already. Why are you trying to take credit for my ideas?

FOS Mario

[TwoFace]

This post is scummy IMO

Nah it really isn't.

[TwoFace]

actually
VOTE: Ircher

You're vote in wheme was the right one. Ircher is already 10xtownier cause that single post wheme called bad is better than all of wheme's posts combined. Probably better than transcend's posts also

[TwoFace]

But I asked for a case in Titus and he gave me one.

[TwoFace]

but wheme playing somewhat randomly won't always make him scum

Yes won't always make him scum but its scummy and I don't know how to tell the difference between scummy town and scummy scum. That's why people dislike me and insult me even.

[TwoFace]

An exam about Adrian Peterson? How cool

[TwoFace]

An exam about Adrian Peterson? How cool

Advanced Placement
It's a dual credit class

[TwoFace]

Not my preferred but I am ok with game. Wheme or yoshi are preferred

[TwoFace]

Ircher vote on me is scummy

Why is it scummy? Is it cause you scum read him first?

Make a case on ircher and don't give me excuses about not being able to explain well.

Your biggest issue is actually a pro for me not a negative so you need a case

[TwoFace]

Sorry for not being here yesterday. I was very busy unexpectedly

That's ok TB is doing a better job anyway

[TwoFace]

Are you serious? He literally voted me without a case. Just said "I can get behind a Wheme lynch"

Why is it scummy?

[TwoFace]

I mean I literally voted fitz without a case but you aren't calling me scummy for it

so it's not ok when somebody votes you without a case but if a person votes somebody else without a case you don't have a problem with it?

btw still waiting for a case. Nobody is getting lynched on the basis of "he voted me without a case"

[TwoFace]

Voting on the biggest wagon for no reason isn't scummy?

since i did it myself on fitz, clearly I don't think it is that scummy.

[TwoFace]

A wagon that willl flip town btw

[TwoFace]

I don't care about your vote on Fitz. I care about Irchers vote on me

you should though. If a vote on the biggest wagon is scummy and you want people to think it is scummy, you should have the same opinion across the board.

hypocrites opinions don't hold much weight.

[TwoFace]

You don't have to read the interaction but you should still call out things that are scummy. I put him at l-1 and you didn't say anything

[TwoFace]

Well anyways, I am scum reading you and have a slight town read on ircher so unless I see a convincing argument as to why my read is wrong on the both of you, I don't think my votes are going to change.

[TwoFace]

I saw 1 part in that post that really made me laugh, but i'll save it for post game if I remember as it is irrelevant to this game

[TwoFace]

What are you saying.. "ok watcher"? And town watcher is a fairly common role. I don't think I've ever seen a scum one.

because I love doing research.

From mafia games 1400 to 1897

Full watcher - 9 times
Limited Watcher by some sort of modifier - 7 times
Mafia Watcher - 4 times
Mafia Joat with 1 watcher ability - 1 time

I didn't go previous to 1400 as I felt it was unnecessary.

[TwoFace]

nobody is pushing a counter to whemestar and it is making me uncomfortable

Titus/Fitz was the original counter to Wheme/Transcend. you should have known that...

[TwoFace]

nobody is pushing a counter to whemestar and it is making me uncomfortable

Titus/Fitz was the original counter to Wheme/Transcend. you should have known that...

i'm talking about now not back then

well some people are pushing ircher, some want gamma. some players are inactive and time is also running out.

The fact that there was a counter to this slot at one point still means he could be scum just because there isn't a hard push for it now. If this slot is scum a hard push now could expose scum especially if townies aren't really pushing it.

[TwoFace]

Mod Note

Prodding Ray Frost. He has (expired on 2017-05-12 10:11:59) to respond to his prod or he will be replaced.

@Mod: For real though, what about ChannelDelibird? He said his V/LA would end Sunday and here it is being Thursday and we haven't heard from him.

maybe TB isn't the better mod afterall...

[TwoFace]

VOTE: Me

Alright twoface let's do this

Oh I love when scum give up. Thanks.

[TwoFace]

alright i'm taking that as a scumclaim fuck me

I will be hammering Wheme tonight, speak now or forever hold your peace

Is still hold off until ray and CDB slots are figured out

[TwoFace]

ehhh
whemestar is townposting all over the thread and I would rather lynch ircher
can we lynch ircher

There's the counter...

[TwoFace]

yeah there's the counter.
it's a town counter though!

I've seen nothing from wheme to make me think he's town. He self voted which to me seals the deal.

#SorryNotSorry

[TwoFace]

If you flip town I'm not going to say or do anything different really. I may look at who's on your wagon but when a town player plays scummy and they get lynched because of it I can't find scum in that pile. That's why it's imperative for townies to always play well and actively scum hunt.

When you see vote you have basically admitted you are scum. The point of this game is to find and lynch scum so if you are town you don't set vote.

[TwoFace]

I'm self voting to help you out

Want me to unvote if selfvotimg is scummy?

I don't really care what you do anymore since you are scum. Though if you are town yeah I will definitely be mad at you cause there is no excuse for this crappy play

[TwoFace]

I did. I want to hear someone's reasoning why.

transc did scummy shit
got pressured and reacted poorly
falsely accused me of some shit
when the pressure wasn't backing off took his ball and went home
Wheme replaced in and has done absolutely no scum hunting
refused to make a case on his top scum read and in the process proved himself a hypocrite
self voted

that's pretty much a recipe for scum imo

[TwoFace]

I know you so well twoface

clearly you don't because if you did you would know I would scum read you for the things you have done and you did them anyway

[TwoFace]

Then you missed the lone game that had a watcher and double voter in it...circa 2007.
And the double voter was scum.

it's cute that you still think the reason why I think your claim is fake is because of my double voting ability when I pretty much implied earlier it wasn't...

[TwoFace]

Wheme selfvoting is town more than anything IMO.

nope and shame on you or anyone else who dare say self voting is town. don't degrade this site anymore than it already has been.

[TwoFace]

I can't see scum doing it ever

[TwoFace]

it's the way he did it
not that he did it

doesn't compute...

town should never do it so there is no "if you do it this way it's totally acceptable" part in my rulebook and it shouldn't be in anyone else's either...

[TwoFace]

it's cute that you still think the reason why I think your claim is fake is because of my double voting ability

I never said this. I like research too and thought it an interesting find.

i definitely felt it was implied because why else would you single that out?

I will say that the reason I don't think you are watcher is because of something completely different than my ability do double vote. I will not be sharing what that reason is because it is really irrelevant when it will be clear soon enough if you are telling the truth or lying.

[TwoFace]

i'm not saying it's acceptable
i'm saying it looks town if anything

let's just agree to disagree

[TwoFace]

mod, since Ray basically hasn't made any game related posts can that recent one not count towards his activity counter? I don't think is acceptable to basically let days go by without producing content just cause you make a single post. The idea of him getting essentially another 72 hours (48 + 24 prod) is not sitting well with me.

[TwoFace]

He has read the prod that I have sent him but has not yet responded. I'll give it a little more time or I will force replace him.

he posted today after the prod I believe. but it was just a single post saying he's going to be busy

[TwoFace]

I don't think Wheme is scum.

you have been in this game less than an hour and probably haven't read much. I don't think your opinion holds any weight atm, especially without some good reasons why

[TwoFace]

A good chance to actually make a case beyond "he's scum"

he was given the opportunity earlier before getting to L-1 and he refused. Why do you think he will do it now?

[TwoFace]

why? other than the self vote thing which i already agree with I see no reasons as to why he is town.

[TwoFace]

I'm not going to vote for an info lynch with 5 days remaining. That's dumb.

well see that's the thing. this isn't an info lynch...

[TwoFace]

why? other than the self vote thing which i already agree with I see no reasons as to why he is town.

Yeah I'm definitely not going to be able to convince you. He just feels town.

[TwoFace]

Host meta is bad imo.

1. I don't really understand why you responded to this since I am not even voting him anymore
2. not really

[TwoFace]

this game has gone from fun to no fun like that. It's bad enough I have to be forced to play with somebody I have no interest in playing with but now we are letting scum off the hood?

smfh

[TwoFace]

Why is Wheme scum? It's like the same reason Transcend is scum. They play like scum according to you - which honestly might be true (for Wheme moreso than Transcend I'd say). But like, I played a game with town!Wheme where honestly he played awful. Like I don't even know what his reads were but it was like he was asking to be lynched and he was lynched and he was town, and it did nothing to help find scum and I was pissed. But that's just Wheme. So unless he's done something actually scummy other than explain himself poorly and be enigmatic n shit, I'm not voting him.

He quoted a very pro-town post and called the person who made it scum and when he explains why it's scummy, it turns out his reason wasn't accurate
He then added the fact that ircher voted him without any reason but doesn't seem to have an issue with anyone else who did something similar.

none of that comes from a town mindset. That comes from a scum mindset trying to cast shade on somebody who looks town

[TwoFace]

No one's forcing you to do anything. Chill.

1. you don't know what the fuck you are even talking about
2. don't tell me to chill

[TwoFace]

!!!! Ok Mario can be town

from that one post?

[TwoFace]

i can't even deal with this game right now.

[TwoFace]

naked votes aren't scummy.

what else you have other than omgus?

[TwoFace]

What has PPslot even done other than vote GE, and call Transcend/Wheme town?

nothing

[TwoFace]

naked votes aren't scummy.

what else you have other than omgus?

The timing is

nah, sorry you need something more of remove the vote.

don't get me wrong I don't like what pp has done since replacing in but he isn't getting lynched based off your bad reasoning.

[TwoFace]

{Gamma}

post a case on gamma.

[TwoFace]

I don't do that.

you are going to have to if you want anyone to take you seriously

[TwoFace]

Having similar reads (especially on a replace) is actually a pretty good way to read someone as town, I feel. If you are reading a game and thinking "this guy's saying all the things I'm thinking" and you are town, then I think there's a good chance the person you are reading is town. Not to say that scum can't replace in and pick a player to blindly sheep.

I honestly don't believe PP has read enough of this game to have any sort of reads list though. The fact he posted some shitty list doesn't look good especially when he is refusing to explain his scum read. To me it looks like he is sheeping other people's reads which is not protown

[TwoFace]

I did. I want to hear someone's reasoning why.

Like you can't ask this and then refuse to do the same when you are asked.

[TwoFace]

If wheme isn't getting lynched I've moved pp up to my 2nd.

[TwoFace]

If wheme isn't getting lynched I've moved pp up to my 2nd.

Considering where the votes (and public sentiment) lie now, it's pretty safe to say he won't be. Can you live with a Gamma lynch though? He seems more viable. Though PP is getting in some hot water and there's mediocre buzz around Ircher. Whatever it is, let's just get to it.

No I can't

[TwoFace]

I can't unvote caught scum.

[TwoFace]

If somehow you are town you definitely helped me...

[TwoFace]

I'm stubborn?

You know in advance that I probably wouldn't change them
You know in advance what I expect from townies and do the opposite
I ask for some reasons for your scum reads and you refuse
AND you know I'll think you are confirmed scum for self voting

Yet you do all of this anyway and I'm the stubborn one?

If you are town, very clearly you are.

Almost everything your predecessor did including the BS replace out was scummy.
Every single thing you've done this game is scummy.

If you flip town how the fuck can I find scum on your wagon? How can your town flip help me with my reads?

Your town flip doesn't change my read on fitz.
It doesn't change my read on yoshi
It doesn't even change my read on PP.

So how can you getting yourself lynched help me if you are town?

It can't.

You know what can? Fucking scum hunting. Providing reasons (good or bad) on why you scum read people or even town read people.

That helps me.

[TwoFace]

I mean, I said that my reads were based on a scan through so, yeah...and I also gave my reasoning for gamma. His questioning doesn't feel genuine or productive. I cbf'd to make a quote-by-quote WoT case outside of MyLo/LyLo. If you want to lynch me for that...ok.

Nothing from you seems genuine. You asking for reasons why wheme was being run up wasn't genuine. Your mysterious town read on them doesn't seem genuine, that reads list is definitely not genuine and your refusal to explain why gamma is scum is just plain crap.

[TwoFace]

Why did you ask for people to explain their reasons for why they scum read wheme/transcend slot and

1. Didn't respond to the one person who did
2. Didn't really push the others who didn't respond to get them to
3. Basically moved on and didn't care anymore

[TwoFace]

I don't think Wheme is scum.

you have been in this game less than an hour and probably haven't read much. I don't think your opinion holds any weight atm, especially without some good reasons why

Here I basically ask you to explain your town read on wheme and you don't.

[TwoFace]

I mean, I said that my reads were based on a scan

I find it near impossible to scan that many pages and have actual reads because you need to read conversations and interactions to understand why things were said. I'm pretty sure you just scanned somebody you want to buddy and copied their reads.

Now if you want to back up all your reads with reasons for them and do that within the next hour or so, maybe you can convince me they are genuine.

[TwoFace]

And and telling me to chill after I told you to stop is a person who's just pushing buttons and I don't perceive that as a townie act

[TwoFace]

So if wheme doesn't happen PP is a good lynch. He's probably scum and if he's town I'm pretty much going to not trust him or his reads.

[TwoFace]

Yes you are acting like quite a big one and as such I can't trust you. You are doing the opposite of what a townie should do

[TwoFace]

If you are town you should be transparent. Refusing to explain why you townread somebody or why you scum read somebody is either scum or an ass (possibly both)

[TwoFace]

So we can get PP to l-3. Who else would vote pp?

[TwoFace]

I'd still rather wheme but pp could definitely be a thing.

[TwoFace]

Strange post

[TwoFace]

Cause you haven't posted anything in a while. PP is getting pressure and you post what looks like an avoidance post.

P.edit - I definitely retract my thoughts on you TB

Modkill!!!!

[TwoFace]

[TwoFace]

NVM I don't think I want to vote Penguin

[TwoFace]

I'd rather end it by lynching scum, not lynchbait

So why aren't you voting wheme?

[TwoFace]

I'd rather end it by lynching scum, not lynchbait

So why aren't you voting wheme?

If he's scum you're not going to prove it using the argument you've presented because town!Wheme would absolutely do that.

To do realize scum are going to try and copy their town games right?

He was at l-1 to basically nothing and he's done jack squat between that time period. Typically when a townie is given a pardon they use it to redeem themselves. He hasn't.

[TwoFace]

mis

Did you ever explain this?

[TwoFace]

I hate meta but your play here is completely different than shizaro mafia.

[TwoFace]

Obviously. So if you're town why have you decided to just troll all game and do nothing? I don't understand. Why would you intentionally play against your win condition like you are now if you are town?

[TwoFace]

Wheme, if I'm understanding correctly, you are handicapping your town game so that you aren't obvious as scum. I feel like you would be better served elevating your scum game. Better to be an asset to your team than to be a hindrance.

Half of the players on this site are doing this. ive been saying this since i got here. Players don't know how to play as scum so they dumb down their town play so they can skate by as scum.

It's why people get mad at me for pushing scummy people and being wrong. They should be mad at the people playing bad but whatever.

[TwoFace]

Not sure what you're talking about. I responded.

The dude trying to create a truth tell is more concerning right now.

Yeah he did basically admit that's what he's doing

[TwoFace]

hence the "lol" right after.

There was no lol

[TwoFace]

hence the "lol" right after.

There was no lol

There was an "lol" in the post after.

Oh my bad

[TwoFace]

Ok goodnight. Hopefully wheme is lynched and I wake up to birds chirping and sun shining

[TwoFace]

jfc penguin is actually town

Disagree

[TwoFace]

Like I don't object to a gamma lynch but I've got legit scum reads who deserve death first. One of which claimed scum.

[TwoFace]

(that wasn't aimed at anyone btw, just fustration that the main wagons all feel town)

Anytime you want to explain how any of these people are town, I'm listening.

[TwoFace]

my top lynch candidates are known already

[TwoFace]

only one bad in here is you

[TwoFace]

I swear if you are town, the same request to fitz applies to you. avoid me like the plague. In fact regardless of your alignment please do that.

[TwoFace]

ou see this right here? This isn't helpful.

having everyone list their top 3 isn't helpful either though.

Wheme is who I want lynched. call me stubborn or a bad player or whatever but he scum claimed and i can't vote elsewhere

[TwoFace]

anyone handy with greasemonkey / tapermonkey scripts? I need a script made...

[TwoFace]

Kelvin Smith, Hikari Link's alt, has replaced Hikari Link

I really wish you would not have allowed that...

[TwoFace]

you know it is extremely easy to fake frustration?

[TwoFace]

now when i want to iso you I have to use the multi-user

[TwoFace]

[TwoFace]

4 days left. Wheme is the largest wagon yet people are asking the people on that wagon to change to somebody else as a consolation...

How does that work? People need to just move to wheme.

[TwoFace]

And let's say for humors sake he's town. Why the duck would we want him around? He isn't helping.

[TwoFace]

Yes your helping town a lot twoface

Hey if you are town I'm guilty of being wrong but at least I can give reasons for my reads and I scum hunt. You don't do anything but troll

[TwoFace]

There is a difference in being bad at giving examples and trolling

You self voted. If you are town that's trolling.

Imo not scum hunting is trolling too.

[TwoFace]

I have trouble explains why I town read people too

How hard is to pick out posts and say what you don't like about them?

If you can't do that quit mafia cause that's the bare minimum requirement

[TwoFace]

Sorry guys. Busy weekend and just never got around to posting.

[TwoFace]

So almost 400 pages while I was gone. Anything worthwhile that I missed?

[TwoFace]

I'm like, kinda frustrated because the seemingly inevitable lynch is a townread and a few of the town leaders is campaigning against a lynch I think might actually be scum. But I'm not too motivated to start yelling at people to vote Ircher because... honestly idk if he's scum and I haven't even responded to his response to my 'case' yet. People TR GE for... some reason, and Ray Frost TRs Ircher because... GE was pushing Ircher?? Idk. I feel like town is actively trying to not lynch scum today, so I feel like, what can I even do

My issue with anyone town reading wheme is yo literally have nothing game related to use for town reading him. He has done nothing to help find scum, he's provided no reasons for his scum reads, he's basically done jack squat.

Clearly that could have changed over the weekend but 1. I seriously doubt it and 2. It's a little too late for that.

If we keep him under the assumption that "maybe" he's town, he's still a liability. He's somebody that we can't sort and has no interest in actually helping town win.

I'd dare say that if he is town he is currently playing against his win condition.

[TwoFace]

Ok

[TwoFace]

If somebody has a better lynch candidate with a really good case I'm all ears.

[TwoFace]

Wheme what's the case on ircher?

[TwoFace]

no

[TwoFace]

can't respond until I have time to read it. Can't do that while driving to work and I am not sure I will be able to read it before deadline. If you have something you feel I must read ASAP, either quote it or bullets but I can't read the 400 posts I missed this morning.

[TwoFace]

ok about to head to a meeting, i'll check it out after that.

p.edit - but you really haven't given good reasons for any of your votes so that can't be considered scummy to you now can it?

[TwoFace]

I mean ircher did give good reasons for his original vote on Titus. I don't really remember PP being a big wagon and that is where his vote is now.

which big wagons were ircher joining without good reasons?

p.edit - No I am saying that one of the reasons YOU gave is something YOU are guilty of so if YOU are doing it, YOU can't use that as a reason to scum read somebody.

[TwoFace]

If 999 is his case it feels more like Ircher is just going through Titus ISO to justify anything that seems scummy to make a case on her.

fine that is your opinion, but
1. I found myself agreeing with that post
2. it's better than anything you have managed to put together.

I have no interest in lynching ircher today over you.

[TwoFace]

saying I will never unvote isn't true, but I know I have asked at least 2 or 3 times for SOMEBODY to provide a convincing case on a better alternative and unless somebody posted one over the weekend, nobody has.

I'm not going to abandon my own scum read and vote somebody else if nobody can be bothered to make a convincing argument.

There was a game where town had 1 mislynch left. I was dead set on lynching somebody but that person took the time and energy making a case on somebody else. The case was good enough I actually decided to go with that instead and if it was wrong, I could lynch him the next day. He was right and that was the last scum.

I know my reads aren't perfect, but they ARE mine. If somebody wants to convince me why my reads are wrong and why somebody else should be lynched. I am STILL waiting for that to happen.

I really don't understand why you can't be bothered to even make an effort to try and save yourself. Why play the game if you aren't going to actually play the game?

[TwoFace]

@ ray - I skimmed your post and I have had gamma on my radar for a while. I am perfectly fine lynching gamma but I really feel like gamma and wheme are playing similar games here.

So what I need to know from you is what makes gamma a better lynch over wheme?

[TwoFace]

Wheme's first vote was on Ircher - reason why was "I think he is scum" with nothing to support that.
Wheme's 2nd vote was a self vote - No reason why town would/should do this. Scum giving up clearly has a reason
Wheme's 3rd vote is on Ircher - no reason given
Wheme's 4th vote was on MMM - no reason given. Just says "maybe"
Wheme's 5th vote was on Ircher - again no reason given.

So like if you are basically going to tunnel on somebody, you have to have reasons for it. Trust me I am the king of tunneling.

plus I don't like this post from him

"If I flip scum you don't learn any information on who is town/scum on my wagon
If I flip town you don't learn any information on who is town/scum on my wagon"

tbh I don't really care if I don't learn anything from a scum lynch, because a scum lynch day 1 is fucking awesome.

I do care if I don't learn anything from a town flip though because it is his responsibility to make sure he leaves town with information they can use and he hasn't done that.

If wheme flips town all we know is he thinks ircher is scum but no reason why other than a few things that 1. aren't really true and 2. things he was guilty of himself.

[TwoFace]

No and probably won't before deadline so if I'm missing something urgent somebody needs to point it out

[TwoFace]

Mort sort of makes sense.

[TwoFace]

So probably voting fitz today. Especially if cop decides to cc the watcher claim.

[TwoFace]

Sad to see Jordan go but not his font lol

[TwoFace]

Last thing before I go...

So probably voting fitz today. Especially if cop decides to cc the watcher claim.

How does the existence of a Cop prove that there's no Watcher? Do you by any chance mean you're expecting a Cop to have a result on the Watcher...? Because otherwise I'd see no reason for there to be both a Cop and a Watcher in the same setup. (Though, then again, I'm used to making crazier setups, so might be biased)

1. Because I think it's unlikely to have full watcher and cop. Possible? Sure but unlikely imo.
2. No I don't expect the cop to investigate the watcher. I do expect a cop to cc at some point though.

[TwoFace]

So probably voting fitz today. Especially if cop decides to cc the watcher claim.

I can see if there's a guilty on him, but why are you prepared to vote him before even seeing what he brings? We should give him a chance to prove his claim legitimate.

He is still my top scum read and I don't believe the claim. I don't lynch claimed roles day 1, but we are now in Day 2.

Plus he didn't die

[TwoFace]

Btw I haven't voted yet so clearly I'm waiting...

[TwoFace]

I watched Ray.

VOTE: fitz

[TwoFace]

Cause you're buddies and you think I'm not really a threat

[TwoFace]

but why are you prepared to vote him before even seeing what he brings?

Btw I haven't voted yet so clearly I'm waiting...

What was lol about me doing exactly what I said?

You brought nothing. You voted the entirely wrong person.

No chance you are town.

Who the fuck watches ray? Like really?

Town watcher should be on somebody universally town read. Ray imo wasn't

[TwoFace]

Cause you're buddies and you think I'm not really a threat

? I don't get what you're saying.

I can't properly respond cause doing so will probably insult you.

It's very clear what I'm saying.

[TwoFace]

second

VOTE: fitz

Have a great weekend everyone.

[TwoFace]

Wait so mafia had 2shot roleblocker against oddnight cop and 3shot gs?

And a double voter.

[TwoFace]

Only fakeclaim was from Ircher. That everybody bought for... reasons?

Stupidity

[TwoFace]

And idk why the fuck you hammered ray. Seriously

[TwoFace]

mod who reviewed the game

[TwoFace]

It's a lie.

It is literally the definition of a lie.

I was told something that was not true.

I was also "roleblocked" after the roleblocker was dead.

Which created a whole fucking shitload of problems in the game leading to priscila's lynch for basically no reason.

Which completely shifted the gamestate.

Welcome to the dead thread discussion but still you and the rest of town still played bad so it wasn't the direct cause of the loss

[TwoFace]

The game went through A LOT in the review thread, trust me the original setup was unbalanced as hell. The game was eventually shifted to this setup,

What was the original setup?

[TwoFace]

PRs should never play different just cause they are a PR so good on kelvin.