Mini 1906 - It's An Owners Market Blitz (Game Over)

[Infinity 324]

. I feel like scum would barely go for their "scum only" picks and hope we just waste our money on those picks. Plus the scum only powers aren't the strongest until it gets way later in the game, For now, that doesn't seem like a big issue. I suggest we never bring the day kill into the auction if we can plus I don't know if we're gonna get enough reads to get someone we solidly agree to elect plus let's say that person is evil and brings in some scum roles it's really a huge game of wifom on if they did it or it was just bad luck I suggest we Elect no one and wait a bit

Yeah there are risks electing someone, but aren't there the same risks of we elect no one? And even if the elected player was chosen randomly, they're probably going to be town.

[Infinity 324]

To more succinctly summarize what my issue with Albert's strategy is: Town is overpaying because of other town, rather than because of scum, for roles that have less utility. This would be us accomplishing scum's goal for them and eliminating the risk that they overpay instead of us.

What's the difference between town overpaying because of town and because of scum?

[Infinity 324]

VOTE: gamma

PEdit: hey how's it going

[Infinity 324]

Ok well auction detective use that ability when dayvig pops up and see what people bid. Simple

What if scum gets the auction detective? It doesn't seem worth it to bid high on something just to make one of the abilities a slightly stronger investigative.

[Infinity 324]

What's the vote for?

It's because you haven't obvtowned yet.

[Infinity 324]

elena is probably town, don't see scum going out of their way to elect no one as mayor

Why not?

[Infinity 324]

UNVOTE: Gamma it seems RVS is over

so what's your read on gamma then?

don't have one yet. And i have two reasons.

1) i'm too tired to form an opinion

2) Due to a background in chatroom, im still kinda used to getting accurate reads early game

This feels overjustified

To more succinctly summarize what my issue with Albert's strategy is: Town is overpaying because of other town, rather than because of scum, for roles that have less utility. This would be us accomplishing scum's goal for them and eliminating the risk that they overpay instead of us.

What's the difference between town overpaying because of town and because of scum?

When town

gets it

, nothing. But we don't want to overpay to

begin with

, and if scum tries to make us by driving up the bid, we want them to be the one overpaying instead.

Ie. Scum wants to drive the price up while still losing the bid in a lot of cases. Encouraging everyone to overpay as town accomplishes this and removes the risk of them winning, and overpaying, by mistake.

Ok I get it

[Infinity 324]

I didn't think you needed to explain why you didn't have a read on gamma, and you gave 2 reasons. That's scummy to me.

[Infinity 324]

Can you try to explain?

[Infinity 324]

I disagree

[Infinity 324]

I think there's enough risk/WIFOM in having your scumbuddy as your top townread or not electing your top townread.

[Infinity 324]

Can we not start choosing who to elect until we're further into the day?

[Infinity 324]

I am fine electing TL for owner IF he agrees to increase odds of greatest abilities around D3 so that scum are not that much higher than us in money but still more town.

Do you prefer tywin to anyone else as owner? If not why did you say this?

[Infinity 324]

tywin and desp feel town

[Infinity 324]

I don't doubt it. I've seen you play as town before and did well. I'm just thinking there needs to be way more activity with 13 players and only 4 pages. Half the game hasn't posted

agreed, redcoyote and abr are the two im prioritizing. but rvs ended quickly and those three pages are almost all game relevant so downplaying them is the wrong move

Yeah I think tywin is town.

I need to think about bidding strategies a little more. I do suggest no one bids anything until we've talked it over more.

[Infinity 324]

I don't expect the mafia to make a strong push to get their hands on the position. It's mostly just as good for them to let the role fall by the wayside than anything else.

I personally still want to be Market Owner, but I'm already getting sick of talking mechanics and I want to get to scumhunting, so I'm going to backburner that for now.

Hmmm

[Infinity 324]

UNVOTE: Gamma it seems RVS is over

Look at this baby bird. So cute. Newbie-town tell.

Why?

[Infinity 324]

ABR's plan can easily be subverted by scum, especially since none of the abilities up for this day are of much use to them. I think there's a chance he could be setting up town to spend a lot on all the weaker powers so the scum can scoop up the stronger ones.
I'm not a fan of Elena electing No One. It feels like an empty stance to take.

I want to see Albert's response to this.

+a few townpoints for encouraging interaction. I do this as town a lot

[Infinity 324]

I like your response Socrates and am actually going to elect: Socrates

Why did you change your read so quickly?

[Infinity 324]

@tywin: A lot of my townread on you is tone, but I'll try to explain. You suggesting you should be elected mayor was obviously not calculated. You elected yourself and then admitted you didn't really know what you were doing, which would be a reason not to elect you. I also liked you bringing up that there needed to be more acitvity, which is more often a town sentiment and I agree with it.

[Infinity 324]

Not liking the early townreads on Tywin. I came to the same conclusion originally, largely based off of the tone in his early posts on dayvig, but after reconsideration strongly feel that this is a purposeful display of brashness regardless of what he is. I think it's an act, the further it goes I'm leaning that it's a scum one.

Interesting, can you elaborate?

[Infinity 324]

Kinda suspect ABR and Elena at this point

Why do you think people should townread you?

[Infinity 324]

I have Gamma and Woodboy as scum because of individual posts, and because of WOodboys eagarness to get pressure of Gamma.

we have the same reads wow, you get an early townread. congrats. didnt think i'd be giving one out so early

And I don't get one? ;(

[Infinity 324]

I don't agree with gerry's reasons for scumreading gamma, but gamma is scum. As town gamma is hyperactive and all over the place. As scum he is much more subdued. I've seen like 10-15 gamma games and he hasn't broken this pattern as far as I can remember.

[Infinity 324]

woodboys, do you have any reads?

[Infinity 324]

Unfortunately, I think the only thing that would do that would be a town role pm

[Infinity 324]

Gamma, can you link me to a town game of yours where you lost motivation so early? Otherwise I'm treating you as confirmed scum.

tywin, do you have any reasons for scum!gerry other than that post feeling forced?

What did you think of my reasons for townreading you?

[Infinity 324]

A link or you're confirmed scum.

[Infinity 324]

And I mean a link to a game here. I don't need to see the game with the restriction on spamming, I want to see that it had actual effects on your play afterwards.

[Infinity 324]

Like gamma had been the wagon since page 1. This is not on scum or they'd counter wagon it. It's that simple,and Gerry just jumped on the scum slot. He's scum. Gut read, but I've seen his scum game.

Like you said, a lot of people haven't posted yet. It's very possible scum are inactive and haven't had a chance to CW.

I have no idea why you TR me and assuming is bad in mafia. I'd rather you answer it without my help.

188

[Infinity 324]

Gamma you were still the 4th highest poster in that game, and I can easily tell that your reads were all over the place that game from skimming your ISO.

[Infinity 324]

I have the MOST posts here.

Fair enough, but it doesn't feel like that. I can't say how you felt in that game, but in every other game I've played with you you've felt all over the place and super engaged as town but not at all as scum.

Tbqh, I was asking why they called me town because it looks like buddying, but you went a whole new direction in voting me instead. So you'll need to explain the thought process pretty well now.

Just people feeling the pressure, almost like certain people feel they need to allready have "reads" and accompanying "reasons".

Its adorable.

Here let me do the same. I townread Elena because she had such a snarky unremarkable and at the same time bland entrance.

Sounds fancy, and totally not well-thought out right? Because it just got pulled out of my derriere.

We're almost halfway into the day. You should have reads.

VOTE: ABR

WTF is this

Again, why should people townread you?

[Infinity 324]

Is that directed at me or ABR?

Each part is directed at the quote above it.

Also I'm a little disturbed by how long it took you to post that response.

I was playing hearthstone -_-

[Infinity 324]

That post was written on page4, where everyone had like 3 posts.

And I still dont have reads.

The way I see reads is that you start with tiny inklings and wording and work up from there. If you give small reads, it helps you and others get bigger reads.

If you don't see it that way, fine; but you should understand the issue with not having reads halfway into the day.

[Infinity 324]

That post was written on page4, where everyone had like 3 posts.

And I still dont have reads.

The way I see reads is that you start with tiny inklings and wording and work up from there. If you give small reads, it helps you and others get bigger reads.

If you don't see it that way, fine; but you should understand the issue with not having reads halfway into the day.

Ok, I understand the issue. Whats next?

That's up to you. If you tried and can't get any hint of an alignment out of anyone's posts, then too bad but there's nothing I can do to help.

Gamma: cool! Those are fun games.

[Infinity 324]

I think he's overplaying the "I'm bidding 100% for the dayvig come at me I don't give a fuck I'm so town all that matters is lynching sucm fuck the powers" act to appear town. I think there is a chance that he is doing it as town but that either way it is cognizant, purposeful, and deceitful. In general, I think it is more likely to come from scum.

Why do you think this, because town normally just wouldn't be that aggressive?

Why could town possibly be putting on that act?

[Infinity 324]

I think if gamma could change his meta, he would. I've caught him at least once before for the exact same reasons.

[Infinity 324]

I think if gamma could change his meta, he would. I've caught him at least once before for the exact same reasons.

Thing is, in my earliest scumgames I managed to emulate my towngame, so something must have caused a drop in my scum performance.

Ok, when do you think we will see normal gamma?

Reads so far
Elena Scum for an empty elect vote
ABR Scum for faulty theory
Vecna town because he just doesn't seem to be trying to push an agenda
Gerry scum for the antitown ultimatum.
Not much beyond this, I'll try to keep things updated as much as possible

Why do you think scum would choose not to elect?

What do you think about the people who agree with ABR? (Prism and Socrates iirc)

[Infinity 324]

tywin, are you reading my posts? Every town game I've been in with gamma he's been hyperactive and all over the place and in every scum game he's been subdued like this. If that isn't a good reason I don't know what it.

Also I townread you because of what I said in 188 and I'd like you to comment on it.

[Infinity 324]

tywin, are you reading my posts? Every town game I've been in with gamma he's been hyperactive and all over the place and in every scum game he's been subdued like this. If that isn't a good reason I don't know what it.

Also I townread you because of what I said in 188 and I'd like you to comment on it.

May I ask why meta is used in retrospect to actually pushing a wagon? I thought it was looked at for beginning a read, but shouldn't be used for lynching, which the current game state is then considered.

Why wouldn't a strong meta case be used to lynch someone?

[Infinity 324]

Rereading and having calmed down I can kind of get how you thought I was pushing Gamma, but my point was that he's a "Wait and see" type of player. He is neither of my top two votes and I've said as much.

I strongly feel though that you're getting too indignant and missing what I'm saying. I'm not asking you to write me a literary analysis but there's a lot that you're just glossing over or missing completely, filling in the gaps with things that aren't accurate. Not at least pondering or thinking about what I'm trying to say, and instead just skimming and jumping to first conclusion/assumption, is a guaranteed nonstarter for productive conversation. I mean this in the sense that instead of getting meaningful or deeper thoughts from me you're getting restatements or even anger/spite from me.

I will readily admit that my response was not mature or productive, instead getting indignant myself, but hopefully this demonstrates exactly what I mean. My first instinct was to work myself into a furor and type up a huge paragraph about how you

had

to be scum with your latest posts, but that really isn't true and through actually typing something up and calming down rationality won out.

Yep prism is town

[Infinity 324]

Elect prism

[Infinity 324]

RC seems rather buddy-y but I have no idea how to read him

Let's lynch gamma.

[Infinity 324]

Gerryoat (3): Woodboys2339, Tywin Lannister, Gamma Emerald

Someone was talking about how there's no counterwagon?

[Infinity 324]

Yeah makes sense

[Infinity 324]

VOTE: ABR

WTF is this

Again, why should people townread you?

[Infinity 324]

I think if gamma could change his meta, he would. I've caught him at least once before for the exact same reasons.

Thing is, in my earliest scumgames I managed to emulate my towngame, so something must have caused a drop in my scum performance.

Ok, when do you think we will see normal gamma?

Reads so far
Elena Scum for an empty elect vote
ABR Scum for faulty theory
Vecna town because he just doesn't seem to be trying to push an agenda
Gerry scum for the antitown ultimatum.
Not much beyond this, I'll try to keep things updated as much as possible

Why do you think scum would choose not to elect?

What do you think about the people who agree with ABR? (Prism and Socrates iirc)

I love it when people answer my questions

[Infinity 324]

Ok so since people don't seem to be getting the message:

This is not town!gamma. He's missing so much: the energy, the constant read changes and re-evaluations, the presence in the game. He is even scummy in a vacuum, since he's posting a lot but not really adding that much to the game. I don't usually say my reads are sheepable. This one is sheepable. Tywin is right that scum isn't usually lynched d1, but if you vote gamma we will lynch scum d1.

[Infinity 324]

My first scum game I did all of that

Yes, but in every game since then you've only done it as town and not scum.

[Infinity 324]

@Socrates: I noted you disliked the wagon on me. It seems to be a 1 v 1 between me and Gerry at this point, so if you really think I am a mislynch Gerry is the way to go.

This is not a town post

[Infinity 324]

Tywin take commuter you will be NKd this game

Abr is truth bomb town. Id want him around even if he was scum, at least until he's the last one. Calling me a stubborn fuck was a huge town tell though.

Why?

[Infinity 324]

Ok so since people don't seem to be getting the message:

This is not town!gamma. He's missing so much: the energy, the constant read changes and re-evaluations, the presence in the game. He is even scummy in a vacuum, since he's posting a lot but not really adding that much to the game. I don't usually say my reads are sheepable. This one is sheepable. Tywin is right that scum isn't usually lynched d1, but if you vote gamma we will lynch scum d1.

Whose his buddies then, and why aren't they pushing back?

His buddies are either on gerry or inactive most likely.

[Infinity 324]

Gamma refusing to look at Elena is weird to me. He purposely ignores mentioning Elena and instead either keeps pushing Gerry or goes off base with momo.

Why is gamma protecting/ignoring Elena slot?

Not a lot of people are talking about elena.

I'd vote woodboys if we could get enough support, but I'm more confident in gamma and gamma has more votes.

Elect vecna

since I liked his plan.

[Infinity 324]

I mentioned I scumread the slot

What makes Gerry scummier than Elena?

I voted Gerry over Elena because I scumread him more as well as it being the biggest wagon on one of my scumreads.

lolol

[Infinity 324]

Why is gerry scum again?

[Infinity 324]

Can you show me a recent game where gamma was more motivated as scum?

[Infinity 324]

If anyone else forgot like me: we have plurality lynches

RC is not a bad wagon but gamma is better

[Infinity 324]

@Elena Gamma is scum because he has a lot of posts but doesn't really say much. He has very little reasoning for his reads or gamesolving initiative.

@Socrates: I noted you disliked the wagon on me. It seems to be a 1 v 1 between me and Gerry at this point, so if you really think I am a mislynch Gerry is the way to go.

Also this post feels a lot like a scummy appeal. And scum are a lot more likely than town to "take note" of people who are on their side.

[Infinity 324]

@Abr I really dislike when people don't answer my questions. If you think it's a stupid question, fine. If you really don't want to answer it, explain why. Just don't fucking ignore me.

[Infinity 324]

VOTE: wood

ok

[Infinity 324]

VOTE: gamma

[Infinity 324]

If you were town, scum could have easily driven your mislynch.

[Infinity 324]

UNVOTE: Gamma it seems RVS is over

Look at this baby bird. So cute. Newbie-town tell.

Why?

I like your response Socrates and am actually going to elect: Socrates

Why did you change your read so quickly?

I think if gamma could change his meta, he would. I've caught him at least once before for the exact same reasons.

Thing is, in my earliest scumgames I managed to emulate my towngame, so something must have caused a drop in my scum performance.

Ok, when do you think we will see normal gamma?

Reads so far
Elena Scum for an empty elect vote
ABR Scum for faulty theory
Vecna town because he just doesn't seem to be trying to push an agenda
Gerry scum for the antitown ultimatum.
Not much beyond this, I'll try to keep things updated as much as possible

Why do you think scum would choose not to elect?

What do you think about the people who agree with ABR? (Prism and Socrates iirc)

tywin, are you reading my posts? Every town game I've been in with gamma he's been hyperactive and all over the place and in every scum game he's been subdued like this. If that isn't a good reason I don't know what it.

Also I townread you because of what I said in 188 and I'd like you to comment on it.

None of these questions were answered and I'd like them to be.

[Infinity 324]

@Abr I really dislike when people don't answer my questions. If you think it's a stupid question, fine. If you really don't want to answer it, explain why. Just don't fucking ignore me.

And this

[Infinity 324]

The point of the last question was to point out that it doesn't make sense to scumread just ABR for having a "flawed" theory when other people had the same theory. Unless you think they're all the scumteam and pushing that same theory.

[Infinity 324]

VOTE: ABR

WTF is this

Again, why should people townread you?

This one ABR

I find it kind of scummy to act like it's ridiculous when people scumread you when there isn't a good reason to townread you.

Socrates has some explaining to do but I don't think he's necessarily scum.

[Infinity 324]

We can't elect anyone else.

[Infinity 324]

Literally, we had a lot of people scumreading gamma and zero reasons why he's town expect for "he's the top wagon". And then people just...didn't want to lynch him at deadline, and now they don't want to lynch him either.

There's no way gamma is town.

[Infinity 324]

Like in 120 and 219

[Infinity 324]

Gamma scumread you. You thought it was dumb that he did so. I want to know why you thought it was dumb.

[Infinity 324]

{prism, tywin}

{desp}
{Gerry, elena, momo}
{ABR, socrates}
{RC}

{gamma}

[Infinity 324]

{prism, tywin}

{desp}
{Gerry, elena, momo}
{ABR, socrates}
{RC}

{gamma}

This isn't a necessarily BAD list, but your gamma read is off for two obvious reasons. Wanna know what they are?

Two main people pushed to vote elsewhere. Vecna and me. Vecna flipped town. You have me as town.

Since I am positive I know who moved votes away from Gamma, I know he's not scum. Its really that simple. Now check out the end of D1. Vecna and I both tried getting votes moved elsewhere with other wagons. Socrates was one of them. Guess why it didn't take, wjolw redcoyote, woodboys, etc did? Care to take a really long and hard guess?

Also, who was Vecna SRing? Did you even look before this nonsense gamma shit? People dont forget what happened this easily.

Infinite may be scum for not even trying here. It's as if scum talked about it at night and decided gamma would again be an easy wagon to push. Gamma is not getting lynched. If you think he's so scummy, flip his buddies and then convince town after I'm dead. Not much else to tell you. Maybe you can dayvig him.

I'm not saying socrates is town, him being scum could definitely make sense. Vecna kill makes sense even if socrates is town, but the point about the wagons may be a good one (I still need to check that).

HOWEVER that doesn't mean gamma is town. Just because you and vecna were the main people who totes votes off of him, doesn't mean you could've done it without the help of scum. I don't know about specific people, but scum could've just piled on or more likely lurked and waited it out if gamma was town, resulting in his lynch.

I still don't really know why you think gamma is town other than the fact that he was an early d1 wagon--why is that?

[Infinity 324]

@514: I'll reread tonight and give you most of those answers.


For question 1: I'm not trying to ignore/save socrates. I think he could be a good place to look, especially if it's true that his wagon didn't take off and all the others did.

One of the things I want to look into is the people who were on at the time and trying to compromise but didn't vote him. I guess that could be an answer to question 7, along with gamma

For question 4, I'm not really looking at the main people who derailed the wagon for scumbuddies. Scum don't like to draw attention to themselves that way. I'll look more at the people who quietly voted the other wagons instead. I think you're town.

[Infinity 324]

ABR WHY ARE YOU TOWN

[Infinity 324]

I'm inclined to believe it's just bullshit to make you look confident. Prove me wrong.

[Infinity 324]

Ok, explain why the question is dumb, the narrative is false, and the premise is wrong. I'd love to hear.

[Infinity 324]

"I am obvious town" doesn't really stand on its own when you're...not obvious town.

[Infinity 324]

Also the game Vecna referred to where I was scum just ended

Link?

[Infinity 324]

Gamma why aren't you pushing your own scumreads from d1?

[Infinity 324]

...and then you don't vote anyone

[Infinity 324]

You're severely lacking initiative.

[Infinity 324]

Um look at the fact I voted Socrates at the end of Day 1.

Yeah but other than that you haven't pushed your own reads almost at all. The d1 reads you only came up with after someone asked iirc.

What happened to your ABR read?

[Infinity 324]

I don't think socrates v gamma is SvS. I'll reconsider my gamma read, but I really feel he's scum here.

[Infinity 324]

ABR what happened to your gamma read?

[Infinity 324]

Ok so day end compromisers were me, gerry, tywin, ABR, and Socrates. I don't think there's enough there to determine alignments based on the wagons that did and didn't take off, but if gamma, socrates, or elena flips scum I'd look there for people possibly protecting them.

[Infinity 324]

So with respect to the rest of the questions, tywin: RC might have been an easy wagon since he was town, or since he was a lurker. Same with woodboys. But I wouldn't use that to say socrates is scum-- maybe scum thought that it wasn't worth it since the wagon wouldn't take off, or that socrates was too pro-town-looking and they didn't want to get flak for wagoning him. Same with elena. I don't know.

[Infinity 324]

Gamma and ABR suddenly dropping their scumreads on each other is suspect as fuck.

[Infinity 324]

Is gamma town? If so, why?

Is it protown to ignore questions? If so, why?

[Infinity 324]

So do you think ABR is scum for it?

[Infinity 324]

I suspect the heavy meta pressure is making him change his playstyle regardless of what he is.

But it's not, at least not beyond the surface.

[Infinity 324]

What happened to your ABR read?

Please answer my questions.

I'd be down to policy lynch ABR tbh. I think him being scum would make sense and he refuses to explain himself or answer any questions.

[Infinity 324]

Cause I think we have good enough leads on scum that I'd prefer to chase those than a policy lynch

[Infinity 324]

A wagon that has been a leading wagon the entire game but never got to lynch is a great place to find scum.

[Infinity 324]

On the wagon I agree the person getting wagoned? Not so much

Yes, the person getting wagoned.

Scum like to distance to get towncred but just enough so that they don't get lynched.

A wagon that has been a leading wagon the entire game but never got to lynch is a great place to find scum.

Maybe it is. Let's note you are a major part of

why

I've been a leading wagon so much.

...and?

[Infinity 324]

If you were town, scum would've lynched you already. If I was scum trying to lynch you, I would probably have succeeded with enough town support and maybe my buddies as well.

[Infinity 324]

Because you were the biggest wagon so close to deadline. It would've been easy for scum to jump on/stay on your wagon.

[Infinity 324]

Tywin and Vecna had noted the wagon on me, and scum couldn't kill both night 1. One would have been left to prosecute my wagon.

So what? Scum doesn't have to sheep them. They could've sheeted me or gerry instead, most people townread us.

[Infinity 324]

It would put more of a target on the main pushers of the wagon, really.

[Infinity 324]

This is a dumb argument

My point is that scum could probably justify joining multiple different wagons, and they probably would've joined the town wagon most likely to go to a lynch. For a large part of d1, that was your wagon (if you're in fact town).

[Infinity 324]

Has tywin pushed the people who were on your wagon yesterday?

I find it pretty likely scum would've already been inn your wagon before day end to help secure the "town" lynch.

It is a dumb argument since we're going in circles pretty much.

I just love how you're throwing shade at me when you haven't even considered me as a scumread before.

[Infinity 324]

You can push multiple people you know...it's possible scum would be scared of joining your wagon but I think it's more likely they would've gone for the sure mislynch.

Why are you just starting to suspect me recently? Your read progression makes little sense.

If you were town I'd suspect RC and socrates probably.

[Infinity 324]

Because his ISO is full of "I like this, I like that", and other empty statements like that. No real scumhunting.

Actually he's probably an even bigger suspect if you're scum because of the way you guys are soft defending each other.

PEdit: but why does that make you suspect me?

This is exactly what I'm talking about. You're reads don't develop naturally, it feels like you're saying "oh this is something that I can say looks suspicious" and going with that.

[Infinity 324]

I'm half-lurking, but I don't think this is very fair. I don't think making firm stands is the same thing as making empty statements.

I'll grant you that my scumhunting this game is weak, but I'm not in a leadership position here (nor did I want to be). It may happen at some point, but I think Twyin is the de facto town leader here given his role. I like the way he's taking the town, so I'm naturally going to take more of a backseat. I want the Socrates lynch to happen.

You're completely missing the point here

Firm statements don't mean statements with depth. Statements with depth show insight and show you're finding things that others might not notice and/or trying to get into people's heads. I see none of that from you, that post included.

The buddying continues in this post too by the way. I'm definitely down for lynching RC.

[Infinity 324]

How am I not paying attention?

[Infinity 324]

There wasn't a cop available n1. And track clear means nothing.

[Infinity 324]

I would help you wagon ABR but I don't want to compromise and be wrong like I was yesterday. ABR just could be town who's being useless. Idk.

Work with me here?

[Infinity 324]

What's to work with? I dont think gamma is scum. You somehow think Socrates and abr are town. It makes no sense imo.

I don't think ABR is town but I have no way of being confident he's scum.

Socrates doesn't look particularly towny to me but I don't see him partnered with gamma.

Why do those 2 look so scummy to you? Why is socrates's explanation for why he voted wood invalid?

[Infinity 324]

I don't see him partnered with gamma either. It's cuz gamma isn't scum. Like how far do you need to reach here infinite. You seem to be willing to lose the entire game over even consider gamma is town, and literally all your reads are based on gamma flipping scum. If he doesnt, you have no reads at all.

Stop basing reads on gamma and look at those players individually. They're probably scum. Abr maybe is the best lynch if you really won't go to Socrates. At least you think he looks scummy too.

I'm not even basing reads on gamma other than socrates. I also am willing to consider being wrong on gamma. Meet me halfway here.

The problem I have is, I don't feel confident in any of my reads but gamma. Like yes we could compromise, but I feel like it wouldn't be much better than random since I don't have that much on anyone. Even RC I could easily see as town. Gamma could be town too, it's just unlikely since I know his play and this is his scum play.

[Infinity 324]

If gamma doesn't work out I'll vote ABR, but I still think there's a chance we can get him lynched. But for now we don't really need to compromise on wagons, but we can compromise on reads.

So why can't ABR be useless town? Is he useful as town and useless as scum?

What's your read on RC?

And, I never saw you refute socrates's argument that he just didn't understand the gamestate and really thought the only 2 options were wood and gamma. Why is that a lie

[Infinity 324]

I fail to see how this is really relevant to this game, or how you're using this to inform your read on Gerry.

Yeah, because gamma isn't actually trying to sort. He just giving content to give content.

On that subject, gerry burned me and everyone else in inception mafia recently, so I'm wary of him. He looks town here though.

I can't bring myself to give a shit about this game at this point.

Tywin has fallen into his Tunnel of No Return, and at least two of his co-wagoners are scum and are just going to happily sit there on the backs of the mistakes I've made this game. Albert's passiveness is making me feel paranoid.

Momo needs to die.

VOTE: Momo

Why is your vote on a lurker who should be null instead of obvscum gamma?

[Infinity 324]

I may just end up voting socrates because this momo wagon is the definition of sketch and gamma and socrates should really be voting each other.

[Infinity 324]

Because...?

[Infinity 324]

Dismissing Momo as a null-lurker is reductive as fuck. He's clearly reading the game, but his posts are contentless and he's just letting his vote passively sit on me because he should have 'trusted his gut'.

I found Gamma's attempt to 'interrogate' me tedious and weak, but at least he did it and maybe he's just not good at those things. I'll self-preserve vote him come deadline if I have to, but I want Momo dead.

His posts actually have quite a bit of reads and explanations in them. You may not like them, but they're there.

A lot of people aren't explaining their reads. Momo isn't unique in that.

I saw you did scumread momo earlier which makes me feel a little better. But it still bothers me that you and gamma switched from voting each other to voting the same wagon. What do you think?

Did you come to a conclusion about RC?

[Infinity 324]

Momo made, what 2 posts d2? I wouldn't hold lack of reads against him.

I guess what I would expect you to feel weird about is sharing a wagon with someone you think is scum and were just voting. But it makes sense not to be bothered by that too.

[Infinity 324]

Gamma > RC > ABR > soc I guess at this point

[Infinity 324]

Infinite, same questions really. You've been tunneling gamma all game. Why would RC be scum when he almost got Wagoned before it switched to wood? What about a gamma/Socrates team?

I don't know how else to say it. There's something missing from gamma's play. He's just picking up reads as he goes along. Despite how much he's here, he's not really involved in the game.

RC didn't have so many votes on him that scum had to be voting him. It was a 3 man wagon right?

I'm considering gamma/socrates, I'm kinda waffling on the idea.

[Infinity 324]

How is the increase in probability calculated when the probability of 4 items is increased? Is it calculated as if there are 4x as many of each item in the shop, so it's 4x more likely to be chosen than any other item (for example an item would go from 1/12 chance to 4/20 chance of being chosen)? Or it is just 4x more likely for that item to be chosen than before (for example, the item would go from 1/12 chance to 4/12 or 1/3 chance of being chosen).

[Infinity 324]

Ok so that means the chance that the 4 abilities that weren't picked show up is (8/20)^4 = (2/5)^4 = 2.56%

Not buying it.

VOTE: tywin

[Infinity 324]

The chance that tywin just a really good scum player fooling us is a lot higher than 2.56%, especially given how long he defended gamma. I think the plan was to choose 2 roles that would be good for town so that the pool didn't look too suspicious, but they got unlucky and none of them showed up.

[Infinity 324]

I think the plan was to choose 2 roles that would be good for town so that the pool didn't look too suspicious, but they got unlucky and none of them showed up.

Or at least, him choosing 2 towny and 2 scummy roles to have a balance would be one possibility. I wouldn't assume he chose 3 towny roles.

The chance tywin is scum is a lot less than 99.7% because of what you mentioned and for other reasons but he still has a well over 50% of being scum so it doesn't matter.

[Infinity 324]

It was weird how he talking talking about scum being saved by a counter wagon, yet was saying Gamma was obvtown, despite being saved by a last minute counter wagon. A wagon that I caused. And I was his top scumread.

Yeah, this is why you never write people off as town. You miss stuff like this.

Oh well

[Infinity 324]

V/LA until Friday

[Infinity 324]

Tywin, you called me bad after I pushed the lynch of scum that you hard defended all the way

You then accused us of being stupid for lynching you when there was a less than 1% chance of you being town by probability. SCUM WOULD BUS IN THAT CASE FFS

You then accuse me of faking a V/LA. Why the fuck would anyone ever do that. I V/LA'ed out of all my games.

Fuck you.

[Infinity 324]

Bid $301 on commuter d1 and used it n2

Didn't bid much on anything else

[Infinity 324]

Feeling town!ABR. I think RC is scum, not sure about the other one between prism, soc, and desp. I need to look over stuff though

[Infinity 324]

VOTE: RC

[Infinity 324]

I think VCA in this game would be really informative I just don't have the time or motivation for it. I'll try to find time in the next few days but yeah.

I don't know if elena kill was significant since she was obvious town after voting gamma at deadline.

[Infinity 324]

I think ABR is town. His attempts to organize people was the main reason for the townread.

I don't have any reason to believe RC is a mislynch and prism's point about his read on ABR makes me feel even better about that.

It sucks to replace into a game where everyone else has no motivation, I get that, but there's not much I can do to give myself more motivation at this point. So yeah.

[Infinity 324]

Like, I want to engage with you but I don't think we'll get anywhere since I don't believe in any of the ways you're reading people and we don't have enough time.

Elena kill could easily be WIFOM since she was obvious town. I don't think apathy makes him town either--sometimes scum just doesn't have the motivation and pressure does nothing to change that.

[Infinity 324]

If I had done shit at the end we could've won

Sorry guys