Micro 710: Backup6 (Game Over)

[MarioManiac4]

I hardclaim masons with FireScreamer.

VOTE: EchoVision

[MarioManiac4]

banana and TB are town tentatively
if this is the scumteam kill me postgame

[MarioManiac4]

Is that based on desire to form wagons early? Cause I disagree with that philosophy.

nah
bananananana and TB are both on opposite ends of a spectrum; TB just blank-votes and Banana is tryharding
it's more likely scum would go in the middle to blend in IMO

[MarioManiac4]

considering he already made posts on tenshii, yes

[MarioManiac4]

Is that tryharding or just responding to someone who interacted with him?

Also looking at TB's 2017 games where he was an original player (based on his wiki) he naked votes regardless of alignment in RVS.

idk but it's clear he's putting more effort into rvs than anyone else
TB could be scum or town here tbh, I didn't meta him but I wanted to get out of RVS and didn't see any better way to do it

[MarioManiac4]

Is that tryharding or just responding to someone who interacted with him?

Also looking at TB's 2017 games where he was an original player (based on his wiki) he naked votes regardless of alignment in RVS.

how did you check TB's 2017 games in less than five minutes?

[MarioManiac4]

yeah alright.

WHO'S SCUM :p

[MarioManiac4]

wtf radja scumreads me every game what is this

[MarioManiac4]

So do ya townread me for tryharding TB's meta?

You have given me an example that I am wrong with that tho.
I feel so enlightened

[MarioManiac4]

Succeeding at buddying means I'm starting to townread him?

Town buddies too?

I was expressing confusion that you were townreading me instead of scumreading me.

[MarioManiac4]

Oh yeah, that makes sense. Weren't you scum each time that happened though?

Nah I think I've played with you three times; twice I was scum + you scumread me, once I was town + you scumread me
*furiously metachecks self*

[MarioManiac4]

So do ya townread me for tryharding TB's meta?

You have given me an example that I am wrong with that tho.
I feel so enlightened

I didn't though. I gave you an example of why TB's not trying isn't indicative for exactly TB. I questioned whether Radja was tryharding at all. At no point did I provide an example where townreading tryharding was wrong.

oh shit i got outsmarted
alright firescreamer you can have a townread but I'll get you next time

[MarioManiac4]

Damnit FireScreamer. I thought we had something here.

[MarioManiac4]

Sorry MM. You gotta be town for us to have town cohesion.

That's fine. I'm town.
What are the other requirements?

[MarioManiac4]

VOTE: Belisarius

[MarioManiac4]

tbh i didn't even know you were doing that i was just messing around

[MarioManiac4]

you were acting strangely?

[MarioManiac4]

denial?
you were not acting strangely at all really

[MarioManiac4]

I mean
I had a desire to move away from RVS
but that wasn't going anywhere and shitposting is fun

[MarioManiac4]

the game descended into shitposting and I had no more weak and arbitrary opinions to give

[MarioManiac4]

If you're trying to buddy me, it's working.

yeah alright.

WHO'S SCUM :p

felt like it to me
so i just decided to chill and have fun until something else came up

[MarioManiac4]

the mm/beli theory makes very little sense
also, sorry to dissapoint you beli but the reason I voted you was because the echo vote evidently wasn't going to do jackshit

[MarioManiac4]

VOTE: maker

this is probably the best vote and not for the same reasons as last game

[MarioManiac4]

My opinion on FireScreamer would be town rn ftr just based on how keen he was to get out of RVS.

[MarioManiac4]

VOTE: maker

this is probably the best vote and not for the same reasons as last game

Then why?

How do you read ThinkBig just now?

feels bad man
he's making opinions on things, but he's sitting back and not persuing them
like, he's "obligated" to ask questions and give opinions but it doesn't feel like he's working towards that goal.

thinkbig is my strongest townread right now because although mm/beli is silly and I think we all know it is he is posting and working with townreads, actively seeking cohesion.

[MarioManiac4]

he's making opinions on things, but he's sitting back and not persuing them
like, he's "obligated" to ask questions and give opinions but it doesn't feel like he's working towards that goal.

someone asked me why i was scumreading maker
this would be it.

all i can see to support FS/TB's "beli/mm" theory is that beli defended me which isn't really indicative of either of our alignments IMO and certainly doesn't make us scum together

[MarioManiac4]

I am townreading TB because they agree with everything I say. Discuss

Sounds like something you would do

[MarioManiac4]

why are you even asking that question
what do you expect me to answer? "no, i've decided that towels in fact belong in the glorious nation of galicia?"

[MarioManiac4]

nah, it was just a reference to last game
(before you ask, i was thinking you were trying to ask questions because questions = scumhunting = looks town)

[MarioManiac4]

yup, I realise that because you explained what you were thinking
I was answering a question that i was 99% sure that you would ask

[MarioManiac4]

Banana and Beli, why are you voting Echo?

[MarioManiac4]

TB is on V/LA and is also the third biggest poster so he's basically confirmed town

[MarioManiac4]

postcount has no bearing on alignment

Im pretty sure TB lurks every scumgame.
Beli is null. I could vote it, I'd rather vote maker atm though.

[MarioManiac4]

besides, TB is my strongest townread independent of that

[MarioManiac4]

i don't think that is a good push but i'll let fs explain why
padayada

[MarioManiac4]

Actually this is scum.
VOTE: Tenshii

[MarioManiac4]

i don't think that is a good push but i'll let fs explain why
padayada

Actually this is scum.
VOTE: Tenshii

I could be tunneling like a motherfuck on a page 2 lolread but does this look like MM trying to enemy of my enemy me to shake me off of them to anyone else?

wtf

[MarioManiac4]

tenshii's push on fs feels really bad
he hasn't really done anything at all do advance the gamestate- he's just sitting back and voting FS for a shitty push (which he will know is pretty much NAI at this point)

[MarioManiac4]

i think that's scum tho

[MarioManiac4]

I don't like how Beli and Tenshii are similar wagons that have done similar things yet the pressure on Beli far outweighs that put on Tensh.
ftr I don't really have a Beli read at this point.

TB asked for my most recently completed scumgame, here it is- viewtopic.php?f=53&t=64492

[MarioManiac4]

Alright I phrased that unclearly.
What Beli did in his first post is state that he disliked Fire's logic and thought it was "dreck." I'm not sure going on to ignore it is indicative of alignment.
Beli hasn't done too much but I feel like he's been doing that in a much less scummy way than what Tenshii is doing.

[MarioManiac4]

God you are making it so hard for me to not just want to tunnel you MM.

I hope you don't mind if I sig this postgame.

[MarioManiac4]

Alright I phrased that unclearly.
What Beli did in his first post is state that he disliked Fire's logic and thought it was "dreck." I'm not sure going on to ignore it is indicative of alignment.
Beli hasn't done too much but I feel like he's been doing that in a much less scummy way than what Tenshii is doing.

Can you explain the teneshii read a bit more? The only things I see in her ISO is a few RVS fluff posts. The only thing that I see worth noting is that teneshii promised a catch up yesterday afternoon that still hasn't come.

he doesn't appear inquisitive at all, isn't thinking about anything
only voted fs for using bad logic- which is in itself bad logic, but more scummy

[MarioManiac4]

But apparently FS can be town here.

Tenshii why did you feel the need to say this?

[MarioManiac4]

Because there have been people who agree with the fact that FS's push is bad but not necessarily him being scum.

like
you say people think it's town
but you don't *re-evaluate* it? like you want to stick to the read but don't want to be seen as tunnelling?
and also with that above admission, why did you revote FireScreamer?

[MarioManiac4]

but you're literally just ignoring them
you acknowledge that you want FS lynched, and you acknowledge people are townreading FS
but it doesn't feel like you're trying to convince us to lynch him

[MarioManiac4]

Why is the burden to convince on me?

I've stated/proved why his logic is bad and no one has refuted it. People just continue to townread him.

the burden to convince is on you because you are the person who is scumreading FireScreamer
you haven't stated/proved why his logic is bad, you've just said "I don't like FS's logic, FS is scum"

[MarioManiac4]

Honestly FS
I couldn't have cared less whether you refuted it or not

[MarioManiac4]

I didn't actually townread you at that point FS
I had no read on you

[MarioManiac4]

I didn't actually townread you at that point FS
I had no read on you

So you decided to lie about how you were reading me?

I decided to joke about how you were reading me

[MarioManiac4]

FireScreamer it's page 11 and you should be voting things that are not RVS jokes.

[MarioManiac4]

Oh my fucking god don't one game meta me.

[MarioManiac4]

Tenshii's play last game is nothing like this one lmao

[MarioManiac4]

last game he was randomly voting all over the place and wasn't giving any opinions
this game he is giving scummy and bad opinions

[MarioManiac4]

oh hey echovision is town
that makes things easier

[MarioManiac4]

i didn't actually townread firescreamer
what i saw him doing was pointing out a flaw in my logic
which is NAI

pedit: Thanks

[MarioManiac4]

viewtopic.php?t=71497&f=83&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

i think it takes some real mental gymnastics to say this is your townmeta from matrix5
i'm not even scumreading tenshii for that
but it's no reason to townread him

[MarioManiac4]

I'm not talking to you so that's fine.
I'm scumreading you because your push on FS was/is bad in a scummy sort of way.

[MarioManiac4]

There is nothing more frustrating as scum as being accused for illogical reasons by an illogical townie. You simply can not use logic to make it go away.

It's scummy because it's an easy push on FS because everyone (i'm 99% sure) agrees his content made no sense. You're pushing on him for that even though you will know this sort of early tunnel is NAI.

[MarioManiac4]

Tunneling is NAI because town do it and scum do it both regularly. You would know this because you have been on this site for over 6 months (and may or may not be an alt)
like I just went to a random game of yours, ISO'd you, and got this "Given that ThinkBig hardclaimed Mason and there isn't a CC. He should be leading today's lynch. Even though there's the risk of TB being bad town/tunneler (as Lowell has brought up), the risk of another Mason being outted/lynched is 0% now." recognising town tunnel.

[MarioManiac4]

I agree.
Can you tell me why this is alignment indicative?

[MarioManiac4]

"I see FS make a bad case to try to lynch MM who I think is town.

I see scum trying to lynch town."
how did you make this connection?

[MarioManiac4]

Why do you think bad cases are scum-indicative?

[MarioManiac4]

wait what
you pre-empted my question wtf
i have like two games with you
you shouldnt be able to predict me this well

[MarioManiac4]

VOTE: maker

Tenshii's position makes more sense now. I'm willing to lay off of him for toDay.

[MarioManiac4]

all maker has really done now i have layed off their wagon is a scumread on my biggest townread that doesn't really make much sense (which is scum-indicative here because he's not even legitimately tunneling or doing anything else either, just one bad case that lacks emotion)
they're not following up on their questions either

[MarioManiac4]

Wtf

I L L O G I C A L
T O W N

[MarioManiac4]

oh hey echovision is town
that makes things easier

why are you jumping to this conclusion so easily? I don't like this at all...

because your post sounded town

[MarioManiac4]

VOTE: maker

Tenshii's position makes more sense now. I'm willing to lay off of him for toDay.

what was it that pushed you over the edge from "he's probably scum" to "I get where he's coming from let's vote BTD6"?

he explained his mindset coming into games: that scum are going to push town and town are going to hunt scum
I think that is a reasonable mindset and it could definitely apply to FireScreamer.

[MarioManiac4]

This is like a whole new side of Mario I'm seeing compares to previous games. Liking it.

I want BTD6 to come in and provide some content

this is because as compared to a year ago i am slightly less of an idiot

[MarioManiac4]

There is nothing more frustrating as scum as being accused for illogical reasons by an illogical townie. You simply can not use logic to make it go away.

But this is not frustrating as town as well? News to me.

It's just a quote Toto and Tenshii used in matrix5. I don't agree with it but lolwhynot.

[MarioManiac4]

VOTE: maker

Tenshii's position makes more sense now. I'm willing to lay off of him for toDay.

I agree, tenshi is townier now.
Consider voting beli with me.

How are you reading maker?

[MarioManiac4]

Oh yeah I forgot about Firescreamer's post restriction to not agree with me about anything ever

[MarioManiac4]

maker could be scum too but beli goes first

looking at it
this is the first time you've mentioned maker all game
do you have any reasons for thinking he is scum?

[MarioManiac4]

It was a joke maker
I wasn't using it as part of my case

[MarioManiac4]

Emotion is probably a bad word for it but I can't think of a better one. It's almost like lacking conviction; like, you don't actually believe in the case you're making. Your post digging up TB's case, trying to refute its logic and voting him for it just looks really fake.

[MarioManiac4]

VOTE: Belisarius

I already know from last time nobody wants to wagon maker- let's see where this goes!

That's L1 folks! We are policylynching

EchoVision

anyone who hammers without giving intent tomorrow!

[MarioManiac4]

Why did you choose ThinkBig's case in particular?

[MarioManiac4]

The real question here is
why shouldn't I be opportunistic

[MarioManiac4]

Tenshii is guttownish
his frustration at me escalated quickly but it feels kinda town at the same time

[MarioManiac4]

VOTE: maker

[MarioManiac4]

To be honest MM4 is a pretty terrible wagon.

[MarioManiac4]

???

[MarioManiac4]

FireScreamer I have a request.
Forget literally everything that happened prior to page 4.
It will make your reads considerably more accurate.

[MarioManiac4]

Independent of page 4 you pushed Tenshi for Tenshi things after I just watched a game where you seemed to ubderstand Tenshi things as Tenshi things

Explain how pushing you for bad logic = random voting.

[MarioManiac4]

That isn't what I said

It is though.
Random voting is what Tenshii did last game.
This game Tenshii is pushing you for bad logic.
You expect me to townread Tenshii based on meta.

[MarioManiac4]

Tenshi did silly illogical Tenshi things last game. The fact that you can't factor that into your read makes it feel forced to me

And Tenshii isn't doing anything like that at all this game.
Stop painting everything I do as scummy FireScreamer. It doesn't work.

[MarioManiac4]

VOTE: Beli

[MarioManiac4]

LET'S GO TOWN
LET'S GO D1 SCUMLYNCH
GO GO GO!

[MarioManiac4]

VOTE: Bell

Can we still shitpost MM or did I break our cohesion?

Shitposting requires no cohesion <3

[MarioManiac4]

Jesus christ.

[MarioManiac4]

VOTE: Tenshii
just in case we miscounted.

[MarioManiac4]

My hopes were raised, lofting into the sky.
And then Tenshii scattered them into thousands of tiny pieces.
Damnit Tenshii.

[MarioManiac4]

@Fs; Tenshii is the scummiest scumfuck to ever scum and we powerlynch him with extreme prejudice and justice D2.
Don't believe his random BS.

[MarioManiac4]

I just assumed intent to hammer still applied here.

This is complete and utter shit.

pedit: Ah, thank you for outing your partner Tenshii!

[MarioManiac4]

VOTE: FireScreamer
Let's lynch scum today!

[MarioManiac4]

I assumed FireScreamer was town d1 because he was tunneling and town tunnel etc.
That was completely silly of me and looking back at it he was a scumlord; in sharp contrast to matrix5, he never seemed to want to figure out my alignment, or anyone's. Instead, his focus was on getting me (town) lynched, without considering if I was actually town. His L-1 vote on Beli was trashy; he never mentioned Belisarius before this AT ALL and only said after "what does a red beli mean."
"What is the scum incentive on making a hamfisted page 2 read Tenshi."- trash. His reaction to Tenshii's retraction was also terrible.

pedit: Yay! Random statements that are unbacked by evidence and probably aren't even true!

[MarioManiac4]

so you think FireScreamer would have put his scum buddy at L-1 without reason...? Interesting...

I just don't think that's true.

Yeah I think that's something scum could do.

[MarioManiac4]

(FS saw Beli was going down. That was not something FS could change. So Beli could do something town, in which case FS could unvote if he voted whereas nothing would happen if he never voted- same coutcome, or he could get lynched, where a FS voting would look much much townier by votecount than one that wasn't. So really it's a net benefit for Scum!FS and it really doesn't make him town.)

[MarioManiac4]

VOTE: btd6

I feel like if maker was scum in here Beli wouldn't have claimed tracker but instead would have put more effort into the game as to claim VT and try not to get lynched.
Getting CC'd in Beli/maker would pretty much be autoloss.
I think maker is just lynchbait and FS is scum.

[MarioManiac4]

Hold on a sec...

UNVOTE: MarioManiac4

Just re-reading the interactions between Fire, Mario, and Belarius. Fire was calling Belarius scum the entire time, yet was pushing Mario and did not vote for Belarius until Teneshii counter claimed.

Also just a thought: In this setup, mafia may try to hard bus day 1 to draw out some claims.

Need to re-read.

@Firescreamer - can you give me a recent scum game of yours?

Fire wasn't technically calling Beli scum the whole time! He called him my partner and proceeded to not mention him until he put Beli at L-1!

[MarioManiac4]

Vote for Fire, TB.

[MarioManiac4]

O P P U R T U N I S T I C
T O W N

[MarioManiac4]

VOTE: FireScreamer
That's hammer.

[MarioManiac4]

gg ez town wins

[MarioManiac4]

wisdom just out of curiousity why did you think FS was town?

[MarioManiac4]

yeah- i think that's part of my point
i don't see analysis or evaluation- just pushing

[MarioManiac4]

i don't like it
but i think it's lynchbait

[MarioManiac4]

Wah. Guess MM thought I was coming for them today and decided to come out guns blazing. I wanted maker today.

considering that you are voting maker this feels really fake

[MarioManiac4]

Wah. Guess MM thought I was coming for them today and decided to come out guns blazing. I wanted maker today.

considering that you are voting maker this feels really fake

Eh. it's the best explanation of why you changed your mind on me but I think maker is worse and you could have just finally given me the reaction I was after all along

so
you think im probably scum
but maker is worse
???

[MarioManiac4]

believe it or not the reason i came at you at daystart is because

i think you're scum

[MarioManiac4]

I reconsidered other explanations for why you did it and decided I couldn't come off of maker just on that.

believe it or not the reason i came at you at daystart is because

i think you're scum

[MarioManiac4]

believe it or not the reason i came at you at daystart is because

i think you're scum

Well that's a change for yesterday where I kept pushing you because you refused to scumread my push at all

yeah i may have a problem where i view tunnelling as town because i used to tunnel as town
ur scum tho sooooo

pedit: OUCH

[MarioManiac4]

VOTE: btd6

I feel like if maker was scum in here Beli wouldn't have claimed tracker but instead would have put more effort into the game as to claim VT and try not to get lynched.
Getting CC'd in Beli/maker would pretty much be autoloss.
I think maker is just lynchbait and FS is scum.

what do you think of this FS?

[MarioManiac4]

believe it or not the reason i came at you at daystart is because

i think you're scum

Well that's a change for yesterday where I kept pushing you because you refused to scumread my push at all

yeah i may have a problem where i view tunnelling as town because i used to tunnel as town
ur scum tho sooooo

pedit: OUCH

I have a problem where I hate not being Omgused when it's appropriate

Nice.

[MarioManiac4]

believe it or not the reason i came at you at daystart is because

i think you're scum

Well that's a change for yesterday where I kept pushing you because you refused to scumread my push at all

yeah i may have a problem where i view tunnelling as town because i used to tunnel as town
ur scum tho sooooo

pedit: OUCH

I have a problem where I hate not being Omgused when it's appropriate

Keep in mind that your push was constantly backed up, you didn't evaluate things, you were trying to get me lynched.
That doesn't come from "lol rctn test MM4 DIDNT VOTE ME OMG SCUM"

[MarioManiac4]

VOTE: btd6

I feel like if maker was scum in here Beli wouldn't have claimed tracker but instead would have put more effort into the game as to claim VT and try not to get lynched.
Getting CC'd in Beli/maker would pretty much be autoloss.
I think maker is just lynchbait and FS is scum.

what do you think of this FS?

Beli could have easily seen things differently or just has one rule of thumb thing he does in this situation and he didn't think about the specifics. It's not enough to move my read.

ehhhh
not reallyj

[MarioManiac4]

how were you consolidating you literally ignored him the whole game

[MarioManiac4]

how were you consolidating you literally ignored him the whole game

I noted how his chainsawing for you looked terrible. I admit I didn't interact with him much beyond that. I was caught in a tunnel that he got bitten for interacting with early and then stayed away from.

so him saying your posts had little logic was L-1able?

[MarioManiac4]

if fire flips town i think either thinkbig or myself would be the correct track ftr

pedit: fair enough

[MarioManiac4]

I think we need to talk to the class on this one

[MarioManiac4]

Defeats the purpose

Hardly
The purpose is you're scum and we win the game

[MarioManiac4]

That sounds like a shitty purpose

[MarioManiac4]

UNVOTE:

[MarioManiac4]

You're not breaking any rules by self-hammering for the record.

[MarioManiac4]

That sounds like a good idea.

[MarioManiac4]

VOTE: BTD6_maker
For being scum.

[MarioManiac4]

VOTE: EchoVision
For being scum.

[MarioManiac4]

VOTE: btd6

of course you dropped off the wagon that was losing attention and hopped onto the new leading wagon

^^^ this is scumposting
he isn't actually evaluating whether this is indicative of wisdom's alignment it's just noting a new thing he can push on

[MarioManiac4]

VOTE: btd6

of course you dropped off the wagon that was losing attention and hopped onto the new leading wagon

^^^ this is scumposting
he isn't actually evaluating whether this is indicative of wisdom's alignment it's just noting a new thing he can push on

first off if I were scum why would I be on a wagon where I'm the only one? scum here quite obviously pushes for a mislynch and hops onto wagons that have a ton of traction and the potential to grow and end in a mislynch, they don't chill on wagons with zero votes other than their own.

Also did you not see my vote on him and reasons that I previously mentioned on why he's scum? chances are if I have my vote on him and scum read him then

I'm pointing out scum behavior to further my case

first paragraph is scumposting that we should be lynching
the second paragraph is my point, you're trying to point out behaviour that makes wisdom scum without actually evaluating if your reasoning is correct which makes me think you're flinging shit to make it stick

[MarioManiac4]

zzzzzz
i think somebody asked me why i changed reads on firescreamer
to be honest it's the selfhammer show
feels genuine and im not sure he wouldve gone anywhere near it; i was considering allowing him to selfhammer and i think firescreamer wouldve realised that
also echovision is scum and there is only 1 scum left

[MarioManiac4]

well btd6 is at l1 nobody really needs to push on them we have the capability to lynch them
i'm much more interested in echovision

[MarioManiac4]

We ain't pushing both to a claim

i know
there are two things that I would want to happen
a) we wagon echo, echo claims, if tracker we lynch Firescreamer, if not we lynch EchoVision
b) we don't wagon echo, btd claims, if tracker we lynch Firescreamer, if not we lynch btd6

[MarioManiac4]

wisdom, why do you townread echovision?

[MarioManiac4]

whatever i'm not going to win this battle

intent to hammer maker

claim, give last testimony, etc

[MarioManiac4]

VOTE: BTD6_maker

if this is town and I die lynch echovision for me

[MarioManiac4]

you win some you lose some
im stupid
gg

[MarioManiac4]

join fn6/rb6 now guys I won't try to derail a scum lynch next time I promise

[MarioManiac4]

The problem is there is no good replacement for BP.
UB is probably the best I think. Just plain removal didn't work. Fn6 and Rb6 are in signups, and you guys should totes join them, but I'm not sure if they will work much better than this.

Mod; was there scum/dead PTs?

[MarioManiac4]

Fwiw I decided to tunnel someone our of the gate pregame for reactions which I think was pretty useful. But then I started drinking my own koolaid

it kinda worked although it was semi-emotionally draining
i think it's more useful to push weakly for weak things and evaluate logically but im a shit player so what do i know

[MarioManiac4]

Fwiw I decided to tunnel someone our of the gate pregame for reactions which I think was pretty useful. But then I started drinking my own koolaid

scum excuses
VOTE: FireScreamer

[MarioManiac4]

I'm undefeated in micro sized games. Fear me.

I'm undefeated in my last two micro games