Because you guys were like "why the fuck would you say that" "100% this" "if he's town, he's playing against his wincon" "FOS vij, he's bluffing having a vengeshot" (FOS I Havent seen in years so thanks for making me laugh). You guys went in real hard.
Assuming he's invested into playing to his wincon, I can't see why town would offer a self lynch.
Mechanically speaking, self-lynching for the vig shot makes a vengeful one of the only setups where it's even plausible, but I still don't like it, and it still is more likely a scum gambit than a town one.
In post 20, Vijarada wrote:like i can find you examples of me self-voting as town. i'm not offering myself as a lynch, just saying it gets good reactions. Apparently even threatening it does.
I don't want to die here as scum either
, lol.
Congrats, you've done it before. I'd recommend not doing so. I dunno where else you play, but here on MS, its highly frowned upon. Also, what sort of wording is the bolded?
In post 26, Vijarada wrote:Because you guys were like "why the fuck would you say that" "100% this" "if he's town, he's playing against his wincon" "FOS vij, he's bluffing having a vengeshot" (FOS I Havent seen in years so thanks for making me laugh). You guys went in real hard.
In any instance, town want to stay alive so as to prevent scum from getting closer to the majority. A self-vote here is highly frowned upon, and you will get lynched for it quickly (see your linked game), so as town it's decidedly against win condition to vote for yourself. We can debate this all you want, but a mechanic issue isn't going to get us very far as far as solving this game.
Here's how I see what happened so far:
vij makes a joke about self-voting, or at least he says it was a joke. Me and ASP ask why he would self-vote, he answers because he wants a reaction and a quickwagon. Tenshii finds this suspicious because it's only 3 to lynch so it doesn't make sense in the context of this game. Vij now says it was a joke and he think we were making too big of a deal out of it.
Vij, why didn't you say that it was a joke in 16. ASP, what's your read on vij?
Asking about 13 is pretty reasonable imo. I think someone's rationale for wanting to self vote in RVS (whether it's XD I'm trolling!!! or what's contained in 16) can be AI.
In post 34, Infinity 324 wrote:Here's how I see what happened so far:
vij makes a joke about self-voting, or at least he says it was a joke.
Do you think it was only a joke, or was it a joke + also purposeful?
In post 34, Infinity 324 wrote:Me and ASP ask why he would self-vote, he answers because he wants a reaction and a quickwagon.
This would imply that it's not only a joke, no?
In post 34, Infinity 324 wrote:Tenshii finds this suspicious because it's only 3 to lynch so it doesn't make sense in the context of this game. Vij now says it was a joke and he think we were making too big of a deal out of it.
Do you disagree? In an objective sense, do you think this squabbling about whether Vij is playing against his win con can actually help determine Vij's alignment? Do you think it's relevant that Vij did not self vote?
I can't parse any of that since you're not explaining, you're just saying "this is wrong, this assumes something, etc." and I don't understand what is wrong or what I am assuming.
PEdit: He didn't say it was also purposeful, so I assumed it was just a joke. I thought him saying something about a reaction was just a general comment about how he selfvotes sometimes.
It could have been purposeful as well, but because vij didn't follow up or analyze anyone's reactions, I highly doubt it.
I don't think the squabbling is super useful to determine vij's alignment specifically but I think it's useful in general to get people talking and potentially form reads from there.
In post 39, Infinity 324 wrote:I can't parse any of that since you're not explaining, you're just saying "this is wrong, this assumes something, etc." and I don't understand what is wrong or what I am assuming.
Well it's not really for you to parse. But I can explain things if you want me to.
In post 39, Infinity 324 wrote:
PEdit: He didn't say it was also purposeful, so I assumed it was just a joke. I thought him saying something about a reaction was just a general comment about how he selfvotes sometimes.
I call BS.
In post 20, Vijarada wrote:like i can find you examples of me self-voting as town. i'm not offering myself as a lynch, just saying it gets good reactions. Apparently even threatening it does. I don't want to die here as scum either, lol.
Vij is saying 2 things.
1. Vij believes that self voting generates good reactions in RVS.
2. Vij believes that threatening self voting in this game generated good reactions.
Why are you playing it off as "Oh Vij you were just joking! Well why didn't you say that??" when it's clear Vij's threatening to self vote had a purpose?
In post 39, Infinity 324 wrote:
It could have been purposeful as well, but because vij didn't follow up or analyze anyone's reactions, I highly doubt it.
But Vij did follow up and analyze people's reactions in 26.
Where in 26 does Vijaranda say anything about you forming reads? 26 is about the severity of people's analysis of the self vote threaten, it is neither incompatible with nor relevant to the idea that people's analysis doesn't help them form reads.
In post 39, Infinity 324 wrote:I can't parse any of that since you're not explaining, you're just saying "this is wrong, this assumes something, etc." and I don't understand what is wrong or what I am assuming.
Well it's not really for you to parse. But I can explain things if you want me to.
Why would you say it if it's not for people to read and understand?
In post 39, Infinity 324 wrote:
PEdit: He didn't say it was also purposeful, so I assumed it was just a joke. I thought him saying something about a reaction was just a general comment about how he selfvotes sometimes.
I call BS.
In post 20, Vijarada wrote:like i can find you examples of me self-voting as town. i'm not offering myself as a lynch, just saying it gets good reactions. Apparently even threatening it does. I don't want to die here as scum either, lol.
Vij is saying 2 things.
1. Vij believes that self voting generates good reactions in RVS.
2. Vij believes that threatening self voting in this game generated good reactions.
Why are you playing it off as "Oh Vij you were just joking! Well why didn't you say that??" when it's clear Vij's threatening to self vote had a purpose?
Because I don't think it had a purpose. The fact that he says "apparently" means he didn't really consider the fact that threatening to self-vote would generate good reactions when he did it. If the whole thing was a reaction test, again, vij would've analyzed the reactions and their implications for his reads.
But Vij did follow up and analyze people's reactions in 26.
But he didn't talk about whether it lead to a read on anyone, so I doubt that's what he was going for.
Where in 26 does Vijaranda say anything about you forming reads? 26 is about the severity of people's analysis of the self vote threaten, it is neither incompatible with nor relevant to the idea that people's analysis doesn't help them form reads.
26 implies everyone was too aggressive and that didn't help anyone. 27 is pointing out that that will help us form reads.
In post 34, Infinity 324 wrote:Vij, why didn't you say that it was a joke in 16. ASP, what's your read on vij?
I'm trying to work that one out. Gut lean town, but I want an answer to my 32. "I don't want to die here as scum..." is a very interesting way of phrasing things. I don't want to think this game will come down to a scumslip like that, but I want to know what the hell was meant by it.
I could go for a Mort lynch. Recent posts look more like busy-work than actual scumhunting. And re: 37, yeah you. Forgot your name.
I don't want to die here as scum just means if I'm scum here, which I'm not, I also don't want to be lynched. So that post was playing to no scum wincon. You guys are jumping on...the dumbest things. I also laughed at the incredibly patronizing post which said "Idk where you've played before but here self-voting is frowned upon" as if my first game here wasn't three years ago and as if you weren't completely wrong. An RVS self-vote is a great way of generating reactions and early RVS wagons on day 1, and are not quicklynch fodder (unless the scum quickhammer you in a setup where it's advantageous to do so). Like, obviously self-hammering or voting on your own large wagon is frowned upon.
Anyway that's all besides the point at this time. I think Mort for breaking what was going on before is possibly town. I kinda want to lynch ASP? He was like "yes 100% agree" and then he went quiet for a while and just started agreeing later. Like he wasn't actually pushing me. Idk it could be ASP mort so scum were on both sides of that argument. Not sure yet. But it's a distraction.
In post 39, Infinity 324 wrote:I can't parse any of that since you're not explaining, you're just saying "this is wrong, this assumes something, etc." and I don't understand what is wrong or what I am assuming.
Well it's not really for you to parse. But I can explain things if you want me to.
Why would you say it if it's not for people to read and understand?
I think I was specifically talking about the parts of 36 about you.
Where in 26 does Vijaranda say anything about you forming reads? 26 is about the severity of people's analysis of the self vote threaten, it is neither incompatible with nor relevant to the idea that people's analysis doesn't help them form reads.
26 implies everyone was too aggressive and that didn't help anyone. 27 is pointing out that that will help us form reads.
No. 26 implies that you, Tenshii, ASP went in too hard. You're reading different posts than I am, apparently.
Also why is your formatting impossible to quote? Jesus.
In post 34, Infinity 324 wrote:Vij, why didn't you say that it was a joke in 16. ASP, what's your read on vij?
I could go for a Mort lynch. Recent posts look more like busy-work than actual scumhunting. And re: 37, yeah you. Forgot your name.
What is this shade? And apparently focusing pretty much exclusively on whether or not self voting is playing against one's win con is actual scumhunting.
In post 39, Infinity 324 wrote:I can't parse any of that since you're not explaining, you're just saying "this is wrong, this assumes something, etc." and I don't understand what is wrong or what I am assuming.
Well it's not really for you to parse. But I can explain things if you want me to.
Why would you say it if it's not for people to read and understand?
I think I was specifically talking about the parts of 36 about you.
Where in 26 does Vijaranda say anything about you forming reads? 26 is about the severity of people's analysis of the self vote threaten, it is neither incompatible with nor relevant to the idea that people's analysis doesn't help them form reads.
26 implies everyone was too aggressive and that didn't help anyone. 27 is pointing out that that will help us form reads.
No. 26 implies that you, Tenshii, ASP went in too hard. You're reading different posts than I am, apparently.
Also why is your formatting impossible to quote? Jesus.
I wasn't looking for anything in particular wrt reads, but it makes zero sense to do a reaction test and then not get anything out of it and not say so.
You say it's talking about how ASP, tenshii, and me went in too hard. I say it's about how we were too aggressive. That's the same thing. I responded by saying it wasn't too aggressive since te aggression helps us get reads.