Micro 713: 5p Vengeful (Endgame)

[A Simple Plan]

Yeah, RVS should be safe in theory, infinity. Problem is, I wouldn't want to run up an L-1 right away, so if we're restricted in that manner it isn't really RVS is it?

Good argument against, though. Gut town feeling early.

[A Simple Plan]

When we're actually developing reads and figuring things out. If we RVS and wind up with a quickhammer, town would shoot the hammer 9 out of 10 times, and I don't want a town lolhammer losing us the game.

Pedit: so we're all in agreement then, it's Mortfeld?

[A Simple Plan]

Why would you want to vote yourself in RVS?

@Vij 100% THIS.

[A Simple Plan]

I mean, do you?

Assuming he's invested into playing to his wincon, I can't see why town would offer a self lynch.

Mechanically speaking, self-lynching for the vig shot makes a vengeful one of the only setups where it's even plausible, but I still don't like it, and it still is more likely a scum gambit than a town one.

like i can find you examples of me self-voting as town. i'm not offering myself as a lynch, just saying it gets good reactions. Apparently even threatening it does.

I don't want to die here as scum either

, lol.

Congrats, you've done it before. I'd recommend not doing so. I dunno where else you play, but here on MS, its highly frowned upon. Also, what sort of wording is the bolded?

[A Simple Plan]

Because you guys were like "why the fuck would you say that" "100% this" "if he's town, he's playing against his wincon" "FOS vij, he's bluffing having a vengeshot" (FOS I Havent seen in years so thanks for making me laugh). You guys went in real hard.

what have i done against town wincon?

In any instance, town want to stay alive so as to prevent scum from getting closer to the majority. A self-vote here is highly frowned upon, and you will get lynched for it quickly (see your linked game), so as town it's decidedly against win condition to vote for yourself. We can debate this all you want, but a mechanic issue isn't going to get us very far as far as solving this game.

Where's the other dude?

[A Simple Plan]

Vij, why didn't you say that it was a joke in 16. ASP, what's your read on vij?

I'm trying to work that one out. Gut lean town, but I want an answer to my 32. "I don't want to die here as scum..." is a very interesting way of phrasing things. I don't want to think this game will come down to a scumslip like that, but I want to know what the hell was meant by it.

I could go for a Mort lynch. Recent posts look more like busy-work than actual scumhunting. And re: 37, yeah you. Forgot your name.

[A Simple Plan]

@ASP

Why do you have Vij as "gut lean town" and why would you be willing to lynch Mort?

As much as I disagree with any town having a mindset of "maybe I should self-vote", my gut tells me that scum wouldn't be that ballsy in a vengeful. And whether it was preconceived or not, it got the game moving and gave us something to talk about. I may not agree with the mechanic behind it, but I don't think scum would've made such a move.

In terms of Mort, like I previously said, a lot of his posts were nothing more than fancy busy-work. Examples include 36 (just listing off responses to other posts), 38 (asking a question and then offering his own answer to it), and after my post commenting on it, 46, specifically the first bullet, "I think I was talking about"... does he not even know what he was talking about? That further suggest to me that he was saying things to look active and engaged rather than to actually gain anything from what he was offering.

Yknow what, sure.

VOTE: MortFeld

[A Simple Plan]

Actually I should be voting here

VOTE: Infinity

Why? I don't see what you're getting at.

[A Simple Plan]

Which is crap because I haven't been prodded a single time.

@Tenshii, re: 77: how do you come to that conclusion?

@Vij, re: 78: what you're saying is, you're hedging on Inf, and are against voting Mort?

@Inf, re: 79: are those questions helping at all?

[A Simple Plan]

@Vij, re: 78: what you're saying is, you're hedging on Inf, and are against voting Mort?

Yeah, I was saying I disagreed with the push on Mort, although I could be convinced. And I said I was looking at inf as my strongest scumlean at that time.

Re: whether I agree with 77 obviously I'm town so the first half is true, and I think Mort is town as well. As to whether the interactions make it impossible for ASP/Mort to be a scumteam, I don't think that's relevant to what my thoughts are right now. And as I said, Tenshii's push to lynch because of these early associative tells, I'm very wary of.

"Obviously"? I don't see anything obvious. If anything, it's just based on the gut feeling that scum wouldn't theorize over self-voting. What about Mort is town to you?

If Inf is your strongest scumlean, who's the partner? Does that make Mort your strongest townread?

*Irrelevant material removed*

Examples include 36 (just listing off responses to other posts)

The implication here is that my 36 will
1. not help other people sort me and
2. not help other people sort other people

i.e. that it is just a random collection of responses with no motion toward game solving. I really disagree with this and I really hate how flippantly he reduced the post to 'useless collection of responses'.

38 (asking a question and then offering his own answer to it)

I literally don't even do this and don't know what he's referring to so this is a misrep.

and after my post commenting on it, 46, specifically the first bullet, "I think I was talking about"... does he not even know what he was talking about? That further suggest to me that he was saying things to look active and engaged rather than to actually gain anything from what he was offering.

Or I often forget my specific thought processes when I have long stretches of time between posting and reading next. This is scummy because?

Yknow what, sure.

VOTE: MortFeld

Oh, what the hell! Why don't I just vote my scumread. Why not!

That's

what we're supposed to do.

Re:36: TBH, that's what it is, is a collection of responses. It doesn't get anything done. It's there to make it

look

like you're getting things done.

Re:38: Then what do you call the below?

Here's how I see what happened so far:
vij makes a joke about self-voting, or at least he says it was a joke.

Do you think it was only a joke, or was it a joke + also purposeful?

Me and ASP ask why he would self-vote, he answers because he wants a reaction and a quickwagon.

This would imply that it's not only a joke, no?

Re:46: So what you're saying is that you don't pay close enough attention to know what your reads are and why from post to post? If you're not keeping up with where people stand, yes, it's definitely scummy. If it's too long between posts for you, make notes somewhere, or reread the whole two pages to figure out where your thought process was at the time, but assuming that's what was going on shows the lacking level of effort I expect from someone who just wants to create a mislynch.

Re:Voting: I waited to form a more solid read because I didn't want a quickwagon based around something fleeting. My vote was because I decided evidence was sufficient; notice how nobody had voted until that point?

[A Simple Plan]

Whoops, shit, I got confused based on ongoing-y reasons. Hold on.

[A Simple Plan]

That's great if you and mort are both town. So completely irrelevant for me.

I mean, I don't give a shit what you think.

Just shoot who I tell you to if you're town. Got it?

Lolwut

Mort, be quiet. You're town.

So one, there's no guarantee that's the case. Two, what the heck kind of post is this regardless of alignment for both of you?

By the way, what do you mean "lock town on tone alone is easy to hide behind?" Vengeful mafia is beautiful because you have nothing to base your reads off of except for "feelings." I feel like I don't have to say this, but if you lynch me (what infinity wants), then I'm going to 100% every single fucking time shoot infinity.

Since I'm town, then infinity - if you're town - take the rope like a good sacrifice and shoot ASP or Vij. Thanks bruh.

Like he's gonna listen? Your play this page alone is bad enough to warrant a lynch. You're not Town leader. You're probably not even Town. Stop acting like it.

It's kinda annoying when obvscum retaliates to a lynch by calling me scum. Maybe I'm being too crass, but I'm getting annoyed especially since we're 1 vote from winning.

Alright I'm starting to see arguments for scum Vij.

in order of increasing likelihood of being scum:
{ASP}
{Infinity}
{Vij}
{Mort}

Though, if any one of the top 3 are scum, then shoot someone else in the top 3 and lynch the last member next day. I've found my 1 lock town this game and that's Mort. I'm town, so the game can only end like this:

Infinity flips Godfather = gg
Infinity flips goon -> lynch one of Vij/ASP(pref ASP) -> if town flip, then shoot the other

Infinity flips town -> Shoot Vij or ASP (whoever you scum read the most) - > Lynch the other next day.

Some situations leave me to 1v1 in LYLO and I'm fine with that. Based on my current read, I'm not voting mort all game.

You may ask: Why vote Infinity if ASP is highest scum?
A: If he flips town, it doesn't matter (see above flow chart). I think he'll flip Godfather though.

Everyone read this post though until you understand it. If Mort and I are town, then it's a 100% win.

And between your scumplay and my early suspicions of Mort, I'd label it far more likely you're both scum.

[A Simple Plan]

Votecount 1.07:

Not Fury (2): Infinity 324, Not Fury
Infinity 324 (1): Vijarada
MortFeld (1): A Simple Plan
A Simple Plan (0):
Vijarada (0):


Not Voting: MortFeld

With 5 alive it's 3 to lynch.

zzz

VOTE: Not fury

@RC

Gotcha. mb.

Mod

that's Vij voting NF, not NF. NF is on Inf.

Either way, NF deserves the hammer here.

VOTE: Not Fury