Open 689: Lovers Mafia (Game Over!)

[Kasumeat]

@Mod please don't doxx my Fetlife profile for your Mafia flavour

[Kasumeat]

@Mod please don't doxx my Fetlife profile for your Mafia flavour

Oh awkward.

Not awkard at all, it's my fetish

[Kasumeat]

I'm a bit of a switch hitter

[Kasumeat]

And uhh.....asking for a friend.

Whoa check out this scumslip here, there are no Friends in this setup, ergo your friend is your scumbro, game solved.

[Kasumeat]

Pin that scummy right {here}, TIA.

[Kasumeat]

Have any of you played with each other before?

[Kasumeat]

Have any of you played with each other before?

I have not played with anyone in this game. Why do you ask?

It can give some insight into how/why players interact with each other. And generate some discussion.

[Kasumeat]

The sort of discussion where scum say something scummy and then you lynch them for it, obviously.

Also, it doesn't sit well with me that you throw shade on me for asking an RQ and then declare you're doing to lurk in this 6-player game.

VOTE: A2
Serious vote.

[Kasumeat]

I've already got a player to say "I'm going to lurk all game" so I was obviously successful in getting scum to say scummy things. That's what I was hoping for.

[Kasumeat]

And frankly, sure, my question might be used by scum to manufacture in-game connections between town, but it's even more helpful to town for us to know that those connections exist beforehand. If two players have a synergy/understanding ahead of time that town are unaware of but scum is, scum can exploit that, but if town is aware, it's much more difficult.

[Kasumeat]

Can I just point out that A2 created this account specifically for the purpose of playing this particular game? Who the fuck creates a lurking alt and then uses it to play a 6-player game unless they're just scum trying to slip by.

[Kasumeat]

this is obvious shade-tossing.

Thanks for pointing this out, but we could tell that just from reading your post.

[Kasumeat]

They don't know they're going to be scum beforehand

VOTE: Kasumeat

This is so fucking bad that it might be even less likely to be town than A2. A2 declared that she was a lurker account AFTER she got her role PM. Can you not see how that's incredibly fucking shady? Can you not see that you defending that practice is incredibly fucking shady?

[Kasumeat]

You're implying that it's OK to create a new account for every single game one plays and then declare self-meta and then that self-meta be taken as gospel.

[Kasumeat]

HE FUCKING DECLARED THAT HE WAS GOING TO LURK AFTER HIS ROLE PM HOLY SHIT. ON A BRAND NEW FUCKING ACCOUNT

[Kasumeat]

*she

[Kasumeat]

I have to go to work but in the meantime, please ponder how it's possibly acceptable to

1. Create a brand new account
2. After receiving your role, declare "I'm going to play really scummy this game, it's how I always play on this account"
3. Not get lynched

[Kasumeat]

If there's actually evidence of this, I would of course reconsider

[Kasumeat]

From the Mafiascum Wiki on Lurking: https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Lurking

Lurking is the act of intentionally not posting during a game Day. This is not to be confused with not having access at all, which can range from a legitimate excuse to flaking.

Lurking is a profoundly defensive strategy.

In exchange for not providing any information to the Town, lurkers render themselves very difficult to lynch due to the lack of information needed to build a convincing reason to lynch them (beyond the obvious excuse "they're lurking"). These are both negative traits as far as the Town is concerned; in addition to being unhelpful for finding others' alignments, they're unhelpful for displaying their own. Thus, lurking is a preferable strategy for scum if they are allowed to get away with it, as they provide no help to the Town and can simply wait as the active players self-destruct on each other.

Thus, lurkers are considered infuriating to deal with from the Town's perspective, and

players who lurk regardless of alignment are usually considered bad players

(if not bad people in general). However, some players manage to justify lurking even as Town. Power roles such as Doctor or Cop may deliberately avoid posting so as to avoid the scum's notice, thereby avoiding the nightly kills until it is time for them to claim. Alternatively, some players believe that it is best to sit on the sidelines during Day 1 and pick up the pieces on subsequent Days after there is information to go on.

[Kasumeat]

So, as we can see above, lurking is very clearly scummy and anti-town.

You've declared that you are intentionally going to play scummy and anti-town.

And to do so in such a small game is even scummier than in most game.

It's also pretty fucking hilarious that you just defended yourself by saying "don't accuse me of self-meta, I haven't even played a game on this account yet, my case to defend myself is even weaker than self-meta!"

You cannot just create a new account and then declare you're going to play scummy (even though you're totally 100% conftown!) after you get your role. If town lets people get away with that, they'll just do it every fucking game. With no game history to go through on yourself, your claim of "I always play like this on this account!" is completely worthless and should be ignored by everyone. What shouldn't be ignored is that you just declared you're going to play scummy as fuck this game, and now I'm going to lynch you for that.

[Kasumeat]

There are plenty of people that lurk as either alignment.

There is a big, big difference between people's natural playstyles, and intentional lurking. The former is just how people play naturally. But A2 has very clearly stated that they are intentionally going against their natural playstyle, and are instead intentionally playing anti-town. Playing anti-town is either
a) against the "play to win" rules of the game for a townie to do, or
b) how scum would play
Seeing as A2 hasn't been modkilled yet, they're confscum.

[Kasumeat]

Or, much more often:
c) something that bad town do by accident, but A2 has clearly stated she intends to do it on purpose, so this is not an option

[Kasumeat]

I think that lurking is far, far, far more scummy than posting a lot. And the fucking wiki agrees with me without question.

[Kasumeat]

Oh and A2, to clarify that post you didn't understand:

If there are previous relationships between people in this game, it's best that everybody knows about them. If only scum know about them, they can potentially exploit them. If everybody does, it makes it very difficult for scum to do so.

[Kasumeat]

That said, thank you A2 for posting some content.

If I'm somehow wrong about A2, which I don't think is actually possible for the reasons I stated in #66, I think the most suspicious players would be Chick & Lesq, who are both trying to defend lurking as somehow not being scummy, and pushing me for asking an RQ. I think there is almost certainly at least one scum between the two.

Oversoul & LUV, who are you scumreads so far?

[Kasumeat]

UNVOTE:

From the Mafiascum Wiki on Lurking: https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Lurking

Lurking is the act of intentionally not posting during a game Day. This is not to be confused with not having access at all, which can range from a legitimate excuse to flaking.

Lurking is a profoundly defensive strategy.

In exchange for not providing any information to the Town, lurkers render themselves very difficult to lynch due to the lack of information needed to build a convincing reason to lynch them (beyond the obvious excuse "they're lurking"). These are both negative traits as far as the Town is concerned; in addition to being unhelpful for finding others' alignments, they're unhelpful for displaying their own. Thus, lurking is a preferable strategy for scum if they are allowed to get away with it, as they provide no help to the Town and can simply wait as the active players self-destruct on each other.

Thus, lurkers are considered infuriating to deal with from the Town's perspective, and

players who lurk regardless of alignment are usually considered bad players

(if not bad people in general). However, some players manage to justify lurking even as Town. Power roles such as Doctor or Cop may deliberately avoid posting so as to avoid the scum's notice, thereby avoiding the nightly kills until it is time for them to claim. Alternatively, some players believe that it is best to sit on the sidelines during Day 1 and pick up the pieces on subsequent Days after there is information to go on.

Okay, you can be town.
Just note that the wiki can be very outdated.

--

Oh awkawrd. I'm the only one not voting.

Jus too be clear, Kasu and A2 are the only ones with serious votes?

Kasu is the only one on my radar right now. But I'd like to know if other votes are serious yet.

Sesq's sounded serious.

--

So, as we can see above, lurking is very clearly scummy and anti-town.

You've declared that you are intentionally going to play scummy and anti-town.

And to do so in such a small game is even scummier than in most game.

It's also pretty fucking hilarious that you just defended yourself by saying "don't accuse me of self-meta, I haven't even played a game on this account yet, my case to defend myself is even weaker than self-meta!"

You cannot just create a new account and then declare you're going to play scummy (even though you're totally 100% conftown!) after you get your role. If town lets people get away with that, they'll just do it every fucking game. With no game history to go through on yourself, your claim of "I always play like this on this account!" is completely worthless and should be ignored by everyone. What shouldn't be ignored is that you just declared you're going to play scummy as fuck this game, and now I'm going to lynch you for that.

The wiki is kinda really outdated when it comes to this stuff. That was back in a time long ago where wallposters dominated site and lurkers were punished for lurking. Now the site meta is spamspamspam and lurkers get to hide in the spam.

What you're suggesting here isn't that I'm scum, it's moreso a policy lynch.
From your PoV, lurking is the strongest scumtell on the planet earth. So, in your opinion, why would I purposely say as scum "I am going to mostly be lurking?" Why wouldn't I just do it?
You have to remember that I am a fairly good player. You kinda don't really have a snowball's chance in hell of lynching me this early. Especially considering your case is fairly weak imo.
Good luck on convincing people on your bad read though

Yes, it is a policy lynch of sorts. But the reason it's scummy coming from you in this particular game, is my response to your question here: You would say you're going to do it because it gives you an excuse to hide behind. Lurking isn't going to go unnoticed in such a small game, so if you planned to do it, you would want to have a meta-based excuse ready. But since you say that you're not a lurker by nature, you have to manufacture one, which you did this game.

And FYI, the last person who made that "you're never lynching me" claim, I got lynched on D1, through a Cop claim. So don't think that's going to discourage me. You're going to have to actually make cases.

--

There are plenty of people that lurk as either alignment.

There is a big, big difference between people's natural playstyles, and intentional lurking. The former is just how people play naturally. But A2 has very clearly stated that they are intentionally going against their natural playstyle, and are instead intentionally playing anti-town. Playing anti-town is either
a) against the "play to win" rules of the game for a townie to do, or
b) how scum would play

Seeing as A2 hasn't been modkilled yet, they're confscum.

Um...If I was going to play to my natural playstyle I would be playing on my main, not an alt...
I'm not going to fine tune my playstyle just to appease you.
Also LMAO the bolded.

If the mod clarifies that, I'll certainly concede the point. But from what I interpret, the rules say you have to play to win. Lurking is all-but-universally regarded as anti-town, so

intentionally

doing so as town would be not playing to win and would be mod-killable. It certainly would be on the other site I play on.

--

Or, much more often:
c) something that bad town do by accident, but A2 has clearly stated she intends to do it on purpose, so this is not an option

Why not D: I'm trying out a new playstyle, and experimenting on an alt?

Because tons of people lurk all of the fucking time. It doesn't mean they're scum.

--

I think that lurking is far, far, far more scummy than posting a lot. And the fucking wiki agrees with me without question.

Oh you are so wrong.
Spamposting is a bad habit for a couple of reasons.
A. It makes catching up fairly difficult for players. Becuase of this, players fall behind if they can't keep up. This results to them being lynched for not being able to keep up, or them replacing out, which leaves their replacement to have to deal with the mess that is a very long game that is probably going to take awhile to read.
B. It makes ISOs really difficult to read and it makes it harder to case people.
C. It makes looking back a bitch.

There is a difference between lurking and posting concisely. You're actually doing the latter this game, which is a Good Thing and makes me pause and wonder whether I should be more suspicious of your defenders than you. Either way, my pressure on your is working because you're posting content and not just lurking, so GJ me.

[Kasumeat]

Soooo

[Kasumeat]

Can you explain?

[Kasumeat]

I can kinda sorta see that. The timing is indeed strange. The level of buddyish is pretty low (just look at LUV's 51 if you want to see buddyish. I'm not very experienced with Mafia, but I cannot recall a single instance of seeing a townie respond to being scumread by buddying the scumreader, I've always seen them either attack or defend. It's always been scum who've I've seen trying to buddy their scumreaders. My only hesitation in being more certain is that the "push" by LUV was super soft, so I dunno if I would say for certain that it's not just flippant banter by Oversoul.

[Kasumeat]

I can kinda sorta see that. The timing is indeed strange. The level of buddyish is pretty low (just look at LUV's 51 if you want to see buddyish. I'm not very experienced with Mafia, but I cannot recall a single instance of seeing a townie respond to being scumread by buddying the scumreader, I've always seen them either attack or defend. It's always been scum who've I've seen trying to buddy their scumreaders. My only hesitation in being more certain is that the "push" by LUV was super soft, so I dunno if I would say for certain that it's not just flippant banter by Oversoul.

You both consider that buddying?
I must not be making myself clear because this is the second post that someone has completely misconstrued. My comment was more sarcasm at LUV because I consider his push weak and bad. I thought it was because of the RVS stage, but LUV has been continuously pushing it for pretty weak reasons. Plus I think he is ignoring this game which doesn't sit well with me.

I'm on vacation right now, but I'll have more tomorrow.

Like I said, your post could be just "flippant banter," aka sarcasm. I'm not as sold as Chick that your reply is serious.

[Kasumeat]

This is a pdodge
nothing to report
that I feel very confident in mostly due to the fact I need more people to interact with what's given.

Oh hey cool an admission that this game is looking grim because we have too much lurking

[Kasumeat]

That's a prod for LUV, too.

[Kasumeat]

And that's a replace for LUV. Hopefully the replacement decides to play.

[Kasumeat]

Are you seriously trying to push the only player other than myself playing this dead game

[Kasumeat]

The A2/Sesq scumteam is looking more and more likely

[Kasumeat]

Work now, will be back late tonight

[Kasumeat]

Work is going to be crazy today and then tomorrow. And Monday. Then I'm out of town Monday. I'll be vla until Tuesday.

UNVOTE: a2
Don't wanna leave a vote parked while I'm gone, and she's contributing more than most people right now.

[Kasumeat]

I've never played with anyone here before.

Your case is garbage and I've already addressed it. You're literally just refuting it with outright lies.

It's probably hard to figure out who my partner is because I don't have one.

[Kasumeat]

I want to hear what Chick thinks of Oversoul

[Kasumeat]

Have any of you played with each other before?

VOTE: Kasumeat

Rereading, this is the only thing that is really catching my attention. Kasu asked everyone this question, but never answered it himself. So he knows all our connections, but we know nothing about him. He even goes on to talk more about the question, without answering it.

I didn't need to answer this question. You have my answer based on what everyone else answered. Somebody actually thinking would've noticed this. Somebody just fabricating a case might've missed this obvious fact though.

It can give some insight into how/why players interact with each other. And generate some discussion.

I've already got a player to say "I'm going to lurk all game" so I was obviously successful in getting scum to say scummy things. That's what I was hoping for.

And frankly, sure, my question might be used by scum to manufacture in-game connections between town, but it's even more helpful to town for us to know that those connections exist beforehand. If two players have a synergy/understanding ahead of time that town are unaware of but scum is, scum can exploit that, but if town is aware, it's much more difficult.

Even if town is aware of pre-existing connections, mafia can still use these. It's super scummy to specifically point it out and say it's harder for scum to use that now. Wether or not its true, pointing it out is what's scummy. It kind of sets him up later to be able to refer back to it.


Then after talking about this questions, he jumps straight into A2 lurking. He makes a big scene about it too.

No, it's not. Having as much information out in the air as possible is pro-town, period. What you're saying is an outright lie.

Chick's entire case on me is built on an RQ. I don't see people push cases based on the RQS very often because RQS is a really good way to get the game rolling and get info out there. But the one time I have seen a case pushed on it, the pusher has been scum. I don't see why not here.

VOTE: Chick

[Kasumeat]

Nobody asked. It did slip my mind to answer the question, yes. Because I had a very uninteresting answer and nothing to hide.

[Kasumeat]

I don't love how easy this seems.

Chick, what are you reads? Besides on myself of course.

[Kasumeat]

Any townreads?

[Kasumeat]

So your two strongest townreads think I'm the towniest player in the game, yet I'm your strongest scumread? That is... unlikely.

[Kasumeat]

You're also their strongest scumread.

[Kasumeat]

I'm trying to wrap my head around how townChick could come to those conclusions and reads, and it just doesn't seem possible.

[Kasumeat]

And why does it not seem to concern you that they both tr me? It's just such an unlikely situation that they are both town and me scum in this spot. Your reads just don't seem to reflect what's happening in the game.

[Kasumeat]

Of course people do. But yours require multiple people to have the same one, for you not to inquire as to why, and for you to townread those players who do without seeing a flip yet. I don't buy it.

[Kasumeat]

Why they have that read, that is

[Kasumeat]

So Chick, are you scum?

[Kasumeat]

Heck yeah

[Kasumeat]

What exactly convinced you I was town, A2?

[Kasumeat]

Fair enough. It was right about one thing though, in that the best response is to pressure the lurker.

[Kasumeat]

Thank you for the game, Arona.