Open 688: Diffusion of Power (Game Over)

[Agent Sparkles]

Hi everyone, I'll get caught up later

UNVOTE: until then

[Agent Sparkles]

Text wall incoming

[Agent Sparkles]

Sorry for the delay, had to leave unexpectedly for most of the day. Here were my thoughts as I went along:

Page 1: Curious about alban’s 22- otherwise, nothing to see here besides RVS.

Page 2: Sesq being concerned about L-2 is NAI. I don't think it’s a problem (scum would have to be insane to purposely quickhammer), but that's just a recurring paranoia that certain players have as town.
I’m not sure how I feel about Lunae’s claim strategy. I like the idea behind it, but it also makes scum a lot more informed and maximizes the chances of them hitting an unprotected player. Either way, I’d give slight town points to Lunae because it looks like she's trying to improve town's odds of winning without any influence from other players. YankeeReaper naked voting her for this is a bit odd.

Page 3: 55- Want to see Sesq's reasons for this (doesn't look like an RVS vote).
60- Why would you ignore Lunae's question and openly avoid interacting with people?
65- Like the attempt to move past RVS.
73- I don't see the purpose of this question.

Page 4: 99 needs justification. There are multiple players who haven't done anything yet, so why single out two of them? Creature is guilty of the same thing in 108.
Rest of the page is fluff.

Page 5: 106- The comment about aron's VT soft is making a case out of an obvious joke, not sure if it's AI or if the humor just flew over his head.
123 struck me as really off tonally when I first read it, but the stream-of-consciousness posting/complete lack of caution over emotions and word choice is really more towny than anything. And yes, gutreads in themselves are not scummy, but understand that you aren't going to convince people to agree with you this way. Try going back to the posts that are giving you these vibes and understanding why you feel this way- even gutreads have to come from somewhere.

Page 6: Coop Sheep's push on aron is really bothering me now. The RVS joke should be painfully obvious in retrospect when you look at it with an open mindset, and Coop's stubbornness on it seems like deliberately looking for something to push rather than honestly evaluating it. He even responds to "why do you think I wasn't joking" with "because you aren't honestly representing your role PM," which has nothing to do with the question and is automatically assuming the claim to be serious as an argument for it being serious. This is my main scum pick right now.
Not liking Sesq either. 5 days into the game is late to still be holding off explanations for multiple naked votes and deliberately not doing anything meaningful or pro-Town. Reaction testing is fine, but there's a point where you need to do things based on what you have and not keep coasting. I like Hellfire Missile relentlessly telling her to cut the crap, although the emotion in his posts seems forced/exaggerated to an extent.

Page 7: Sesq declaring HM as absolute scum but still refusing to explain anything after she said she would in 30 minutes is a red flag. Her pressure for others to sheep her instead of thinking independently is scummy. Comm randomly accusing Paul of "buddying" over simple curiosity is scummy. Coop's ridiculous push on aron continues to be scummy. The only good thing on this page is Paul standing his ground and refusing to bandwagon without understanding it first.

Page 8: 175- Lol, Sesq telling Paul to vote for better understanding but doing nothing to actually help him understand. Your words and actions are not lining up at all here.
188- Why do you think he's hedging? I feel like he's been transparent enough so far, his exact reads are just more implied than outright stated.
193- No. Just no.
I want to see HM interacting with slots besides Sesq.

Page 9: 200- Please explain.
211 is goodposting. Confidently digging his heels in against pressure, showing realistic indignation at Lunae's case without looking like scum caught for the wrong reasons. Alban is a townread.
Decent entrance by NJAC. His interactions are proactive and have a clear trajectory, so I'd put him at nulltown for now.
On the other hand, although it seems like I misunderstood 60, I'm pinged by multiple things about Creature's return. First of all, assuming right off the bat that a lurker is scum without knowing the circumstances. More importantly, 224 is a fake as hell reason to scumread anyone. I can see not interpreting "I dislike X" as "I scumread X," but this phrase:
"Look at me, I'll townread someone to make town think I'm PoEing"
is calling Paul out for one of the most common and painfully NAI things a person can do in mafia, announcing a townread on someone. There's no context here to suggest that Paul did it in a scum-motivated way, or

anything

implying Creature has a sliver of a valid reason to call out this post out of plenty just like it.

Page 10: Yeah, HM isn't much better than Sesq at this point. Constant exaggerated screaming and sarcasm toward her without any real attempt to gamesolve or interact with people outside of that. They can both be roped if they don't step it up.

Page 11: 260- Could you walk me through this?
262- Holy shit, this is way off. There's absolutely nothing in Coop's last post suggesting that he "fears" gutreads, only that he thinks it's pointless to act like it's something more than it is. To blatantly turn that into some kind of paranoid fear that it isn't (and by the way, gut reads can be VERY inaccurate and actually help scum) is scumposting. Almost as alarming is how Coop said that there's no reason to withhold good cases and CommKnight heavily criticized him for it, then went on to demand very good cases.
272- Why?
Sesq keeps expecting people to read her mind. Zzzzzz

Page 12: 288- I don't really agree. Why are you succeeding Coop for this and not Sesq?
295- Explanations for these?

Page 13: It's ironic that I really can't see a Sesq/HM partnership given how blatantly scummy they're both being. The mindless boxing match between them has just gotten worse if anything.
I'm really not getting Comm's defense of her and want to know what's behind the sudden scumread on NJAC.

Page 14: 327- Remind me to come back to this.
334- Another lazy case pulled out of thin air. This is getting tiring.

Page 15: Feeling a bit more confident about my NJAC, Creature, and CommKnight reads. NJAC seems to be making an effort to pry thoughts from people and end the cycle of vagueness in the game, as is Coop Sheep to an extent. I'm unimpressed with Creature's "you're scum if you don't notice me obvtowning" and Comm not being able to answer a simple question from Coop.

Page 16: Warming up a bit to Coop Sheep and Gamma Emerald. Coop's defenses are townish, showing a level of transparency and honest self-reflection, and I like Gamma's early effort to consolidate and the way he called out Sesq's vote switch (which I agree with).

Page 17: 411- Bullshit, you already weren't giving real answers. What you're showing here is a lack of desire to actually pin down scum instead of coasting on fabricated arguments.
I'm interested in MuttonChop's entrance and want to see it explained some more. Why are Comm and Creature town? What don't you like about the HM wagon?

Page 18: @Aron, I can understand all of your cases so far except for CK. You said you can follow his logic easily- are you not bothered by at least his case on Coop Sheep? That was the strangest and least logical post in the thread if you ask me.
427- Then convince people that Sesq is town.

[Agent Sparkles]

{NJAC, Lunae}
{Gamma Emerald, alban, NotTheRealPaul}
{Cooperative Sheep, aronagrundy, MuttonChopMagic} <---Null/undecided
{}
{Creature, Hellfire Missile}
{Sesq, CommKnight}

Some of these are kind of rough estimates, so I'll work more on sorting people tomorrow when I'm not exhausted

VOTE: Sesq

[Agent Sparkles]

This is the best lynch right now, not just because she's in my bottom row, but because she's acting as deadweight even if she is town. Other slots will at least give us something to work with.

We have 4 days left and the town is still kind of a mess. This is where people need to lay their cards on the table.

[Agent Sparkles]

And with that I'm out for the night

[Agent Sparkles]

{NJAC, Lunae}
{Gamma Emerald, alban, NotTheRealPaul}
{Cooperative Sheep, aronagrundy, MuttonChopMagic} <---Null/undecided
{}
{Creature, Hellfire Missile}
{Sesq, CommKnight}

Some of these are kind of rough estimates, so I'll work more on sorting people tomorrow when I'm not exhausted

VOTE: Sesq

Why do you have popular wagons as your scumreads? It's like saying town has been very correct so far.

Reading my content should make it obvious why they're my scumreads. What's your point here?

Honestly I got like half way through his wall before skipping down to his reads. LOL. If town mislynches Sesq, I'm going to laugh my ass off before nailing the scum on her wagon tomorrow for being that dense to push probably the easiest mislynch in the game (and the most obvious for any town that gives a shit).

This is the part where you actually tell us why Sesq is town. I'm waiting.

[Agent Sparkles]

@Comm: My points about you copy/pasted from my wall:

Comm randomly accusing Paul of "buddying" over simple curiosity is scummy.

262- Holy shit, this is way off. There's absolutely nothing in Coop's last post suggesting that he "fears" gutreads, only that he thinks it's pointless to act like it's something more than it is. To blatantly turn that into some kind of paranoid fear that it isn't (and by the way, gut reads can be VERY inaccurate and actually help scum) is scumposting. Almost as alarming is how Coop said that there's no reason to withhold good cases and CommKnight heavily criticized him for it, then went on to demand very good cases.

I'm really not getting Comm's defense of her (Sewq) and want to know what's behind the sudden scumread on NJAC.

I'm unimpressed with Creature's "you're scum if you don't notice me obvtowning" and Comm not being able to answer a simple question from Coop.

411- Bullshit, you already weren't giving real answers. What you're showing here is a lack of desire to actually pin down scum instead of coasting on fabricated arguments.

[Agent Sparkles]

262 411
Since they didn't copy over as links

[Agent Sparkles]

Haven't gotten up to date on this, I'll be on in an hour and a half or so

[Agent Sparkles]

I looked through some of Sesq's town games earlier today, and while I strongly disagree that this is how she always plays, I think I have a better idea of what she's doing here if she's town. She's made comments before about how she gets wagoned at the beginning of almost every game, but also that she has difficulty forming reads and that being wagoned helps her sort people. If this is her motivation as town, it would make a fair amount more sense why she's been continuing to hide information and acting like this for so long. I'm not staying quiet about this because 1) we have less than 2 days to DL and there's not a lot of room for secrecy and 2) I'm not willing to let Sesq completely off the hook with how she's handled it.

@Sesq: Whether I'm right here or not, you need to tell us what you've gathered over the last two weeks and

why.

You say that Hellfire and Gamma (and possibly still alban?) are definitely scum. You've been acting extremely confident about this for a long time now, so there's no reason to keep refusing to back it up beyond a very vague case on Hellfire. I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and UNVOTE: for now, but I want to see something substantive from you before deadline.

[Agent Sparkles]

VOTE: CommKnight

It's probably futile to try to make this happen near the end of the day, but I'll be on to compromise on another wagon before deadline if I have to. I feel pretty decent about town!Coop at this point and Comm's push on him is scum as shit.

[Agent Sparkles]

VOTE: njac

Everything going on just seems wrong to me. I don't know if this is because there's TvT going on or I just can't get into the game, but I think I prematurely sorted this slot a while back. I didn't like the slots's like one single post before the replace out and I don't like how this slot is just hanging back after a reasonably active replace in

Don't like or agree with this vote. Activity level is NAI and no one should be expected to have the same availability throughout the game. Out of all the content there is so far, this is what you voted for?

[Agent Sparkles]

scum is commknight, alban and creature.

VOTE: CommKnight

o.O That was a surprising turnaround.... Why those three?

I agree on creature and comm though

[Agent Sparkles]

I have more to say on Comm v. Coop, but I'll wait to hear back first.

HM is looking slightly better than before, aron's vote makes me uncomfortable

[Agent Sparkles]

Brb for dinner, I'd also like more clarity from alban and mutton

[Agent Sparkles]

This is getting ridiculous. This lack of direction and communication is why scumteams win.

@Sesq: Are you ever going to answer the questions directed at you? Why did you get cold feet and vote for Paul and Sheep if you have a concrete scumteam?
@Paul: Why didn't you show an opinion on CK until there were votes on him? Do you have any other reads?
@Mutton: What's behind the recent votes on me and Sesq?

CommKnight is the right lynch today. The points about him pushing a case based in lies have already been covered well enough, but what's especially telling is how he's staunchly refusing to reevaluate or even find a different angle to attack from when he's cornered with hard logic. He keeps alternating between 1) throwing out crap that he can't support and 2) ignoring the points against him entirely (even giving an "lol u mad bro, stop acting like I don't have good points" response at one point), showing that he doesn't actually care about proving his case. Then once he can't get votes (surprise surprise), he tries to dismiss it as a scum wagon being avoided. There's no town motivation here, only shopping for bad lynches.

[Agent Sparkles]

And CommKnight, I don't expect "hard evidence" or "perfect townie behavior." I do expect town players to make an actual effort to find and lynch scum, and to be able to look at and evaluate the gamestate from an honest point of view without deliberately pushing an agenda. The only one of these things I see you trying to do is the finding part.

[Agent Sparkles]

How about you explain your town read on him now though.
I'd love to hear it.
Because he is oozing scum.
Even a town read on him needs to be threadbare, gut, or role related and so shouldn't have anyone claiming an issue with a scum read on him - no?

@Mutton

I don't town read him anymore
at first I did but it was a bore
early day his posts felt genuine to me
now i think he could've buddied me, yippee
today i don't want to lynch in you two
still not quite sure who

Explaining your scumreads helps.

[Agent Sparkles]

well you see
rhyming isn't just fun for me
I BELIEVE
people will sheep
out of glee
but anyways
don't lynch in comm and sheep today lames
if either are scum it'll probably resolve
give it more time, let the lynch revolve
sesq is pretty much useless as of now
so I think I want to lynch that cow

As much as I dislike what Sesq is doing, right now I don't think she's the scummiest player in the game. I'd rather see a CK flip and work from there. Do you think that the back-and-forth between him and Coop Sheep is going to make any real progress on Day 2? He's had plenty of time to justify the lynch already and the argument is just spinning in circles at this point.

Oh, and I forgot to point this out, but NJAC is not a viable target today and I don't understand the suspicion on him. That's another thing that's been left dangling and unjustified.

[Agent Sparkles]

what's ego?
townreading mutton
Lunae i'm not gonna even come close because wagons (voteswitching though)
Creature is probably town, one liners and the whole dying thing may have shifted me

Who do you want lynched today if Sesq doesn't happen? And I don't understand your explanations for your townreads.

[Agent Sparkles]

Oh, and I forgot to point this out, but NJAC is not a viable target today and I don't understand the suspicion on him.

That's another thing that's been left dangling

and unjustified.

The bolded part doesn't apply to aron by the way

quote tags fixed

[Agent Sparkles]

@Mod

can you fix that quote tag?

[Agent Sparkles]

I protected NJAC last night. We should both be near-conftown barring another claim.

[Agent Sparkles]

VOTE: Creature

[Agent Sparkles]

{NJAC, Lunae}
{Gamma Emerald, alban, NotTheRealPaul}
{Cooperative Sheep, aronagrundy, MuttonChopMagic} <---Null/undecided
{}
{Creature, Hellfire Missile}
{Sesq, CommKnight}

[Agent Sparkles]

Sorry, I'm never getting lynched this game, find another mislynch.

I have a tasty D1 wallpost full of points against you and other players. I can copy the parts about you if it's too overloaded

[Agent Sparkles]

Btw, that readslist look bad, specially when the second tier.

Why?

Why was Gamma Emerald town anyway?

That whole line is weak townleans. I like the way he called out Sesq for voting you, and how he made an early effort to consolidate wagons when it's beneficial for scum for town to be scattered and indecisive.

[Agent Sparkles]

Phone's about to die, will be back in a few

[Agent Sparkles]

I'm exahusted right now but I'll see what I missed in the morning

[Agent Sparkles]

UNVOTE:

So this is interesting.

I'm not fully caught up as I'm writing this, but at least one pair of {Sheep, Gamma} and {Alban, Creature} is probably town. I don't think it's unbelievable for there to be multiple N1 docs given that there was already a save with 12 players still alive, and it would be a pretty dumb gambit for alban to fakeclaim doc after two claims had already happened unless there are more cops than doctors and he's purposely manipulating that knowledge.

[Agent Sparkles]

UHHH
Why do you view the saves as town? Do you have no faith in your save? Or are you just mafia that slipped?
VOTE: Agent Sparkles

Did you not read my last post at all?

There was a doc save on the first night, when almost everyone was still alive. The chances of there being multiple docs on the first night are questionable, but so are the odds of the one and only doctor in the game protecting the same person that scum targets. Do you really think that there's a reasonable chance of

two

scum taking the chance of fakeclaiming after seeing my claim? And what kind of "slip" are you trying to push here?

[Agent Sparkles]

I'm gonna keep sharing thoughts on the last few pages before I keep arguing about this

[Agent Sparkles]

I don't really buy Sesq's supposed townslip of thinking she was conftown. There was absolutely no reason to claim when she did, and the fact that there can be multiple of the same power role on one night had already been brought up on the last page. Given that Sesq had already been involved since daystart, I think it's a hard to believe that she just didn't see it and somehow came to the conclusion that immediately outing herself was the right move.

[Agent Sparkles]

Not yet, Mutton

[Agent Sparkles]

I have company over, so I won't go into too much detail right now, but I'm fully caught up.

The wagon on sheep is disgusting and really just reinforces my belief that he's town being pushed by scum. Aron tries using Comm's green flip against sheep (that makes him scummier how...?) and scumreads him for a push that he'd said was towny because of stubbornness. MCM's push is wrong in so many ways and I could make a wallpost tearing it apart, but basically he pushes a scumslip that obviously doesn't exist (it was kind of awkwardly worded, but it should be pretty clear that he isn't including himself in "scum"), bypasses logical arguments multiple times, and generally conf-biases HARD over unjustified BS.

Gamma's votes on me and alban are also really scummy- pushing alban for dodging the 3-doc situation when he had

openly discussed it

and voluntarily claimed after two others. The push on me is nonsense and makes random assumptions about my side of the argument (I'm about to address it directly).

Sesq and Hellfire still need to get in the game and start playing pro-town, otherwise they're moving right back on to my lynch list. For HM, this applies after he gets off of V/LA.

[Agent Sparkles]

I'm not arguing that you're wrong to townread the doctors. I'm arguing you're wrong to townread the protects. I'm saying since you seem to have no faith in your protect you are likely mafia.

I love how you're basing your case on me over something you just assumed to be true.

Since when did I not have faith in my protect? I still think NJAC is town, arguably even more now because of the save. That doesn't mean that I'm treating him like he's the only one who could've been shot. If one of the other two pairs is a doctor and stopped the nightkill, then obviously the target is also town. There's nothing hard to understand about this.

[Agent Sparkles]

I'm going to the movies, so I have to prodge this for a couple of hours. I like the activity though.

Hi, Titus.

[Agent Sparkles]

Spoiler:

Then why are you saying those pairs are town? People can use doctors on mafia.

Clearly one of us didn't, otherwise we would almost definitely not be in this scenario. And I never said both pairs were necessarily town- in fact, even with my townlean on Sheep, I think your D2 play is among the scummiest.

there was no universe where gamma was shot
so, tbqh, just stop

No, you should just stop with this forced confidence that you know what no scum would do in this situation. There are a dozen possible reasons to kill someone, whether they have accurate reads, they're an obstacle to a mislynch, people are townreading them (which multiple people were), creating WIFOM, etc.....

Down with fever. VLA till 10th.

You're too sick to log on and type but know you'll be better by the 10th?

I don't think this is AI on alban's part- he could always change his V/LA end date if he needs to, and it doesn't suggest a particular mindset anyway.

How close to deadline was the vote changed by Sparkles?

About two days before.

anyways, ignore pretty much everything sheep tries to tell you as he's scum

I'm not sure if you're serious or not, but this is a really awful mindset to have and not a town one. You don't just write someone off as scum and then refuse to listen to anything they say after that, even if they're acting like obvscum. It's the complete opposite of gamesolving and has absolutely no purpose.

sparkles still hasn't answered my question
so when he comes back I expect that complexion

I think I already explained why I was townleaning on NJAC, but it basically boiled down to how he did more to sort people and probe into/understand their thought processes than the vast majority of the playerlist. It was refreshing at a time when the game was full of people not really contributing and throwing out bizarre reads that they couldn't support well, so I might be slightly biased here.

I also acknowledge that my read on him outside of the save is a bit stale with his apparent lack of time to post this cycle. Would help to see his thoughts/reads so far and hopefully reinforce my opinion of him.

Yup I'm happy to go first if we go with it.
Anyone against it state why.

Town points for this. Scum suggesting a massclaim for towncred to draw cops out of hiding would almost definitely at least want to see other claims before risking a claim themselves, so it's unlikely that scum!Vedith proactively volunteered to go first here without any outside pressure.

Gamma scum.

Too late, you won't be stopping this.
The people that are going to be against a mass reveal mostly are Scum.

On the other hand, I don't like this.

It should be obvious that the idea of bringing everyone's power out in the open is going to be a controversial one, even if it's for good reasons. Resisting it is hardly AI, especially if scum are aware of the possible backlash.

I am not well so I am not gonna keep it long.
With the entry of two seasoned players in the game, I would have imagined the game would be heading in a spectacular direction.
If earlier the town was lost, it's not misdirected.
I think claiming is the worst and the stupidest idea ever. Unless of course it had to come from scum.
Between Vedith and Titus, I would be more inclined to vote for Vedith also coz he replaces Lunae - someone I couldn't trust before.
As sure as I may sound, I am not sure about this line of action, and I trust nothing dumb will happen under provocation or pressure, but I read Paul's latest posts, and got a doomsday feel. Paul, DO NOT REVEAL! End of discussion.
See you when better.

At least half of the docs in the game are revealed and effectively useless now. By finishing claims we can PoE scum through the numbers to an extent and even more when and if we get scum flips. And we aren't claiming night, just ability.

Because I am not a fan of him randomly claiming, not being here, and being the n1 counter

Why is being the counter-wagon scum indicative?

Spoiler fixed

[Agent Sparkles]

That was supposed to be inside a spoiler button, @Mod can you fix that?

[Agent Sparkles]

I'll just save you all the trouble for now

Spoiler:

Then why are you saying those pairs are town? People can use doctors on mafia.

Clearly one of us didn't, otherwise we would almost definitely not be in this scenario. And I never said both pairs were necessarily town- in fact, even with my townlean on Sheep, I think your D2 play is among the scummiest.

there was no universe where gamma was shot
so, tbqh, just stop

No, you should just stop with this forced confidence that you know what no scum would do in this situation. There are a dozen possible reasons to kill someone, whether they have accurate reads, they're an obstacle to a mislynch, people are townreading them (which multiple people were), creating WIFOM, etc.....

Down with fever. VLA till 10th.

You're too sick to log on and type but know you'll be better by the 10th?

I don't think this is AI on alban's part- he could always change his V/LA end date if he needs to, and it doesn't suggest a particular mindset anyway.

How close to deadline was the vote changed by Sparkles?

About two days before.

anyways, ignore pretty much everything sheep tries to tell you as he's scum

I'm not sure if you're serious or not, but this is a really awful mindset to have and not a town one. You don't just write someone off as scum and then refuse to listen to anything they say after that, even if they're acting like obvscum. It's the complete opposite of gamesolving and has absolutely no purpose.

sparkles still hasn't answered my question
so when he comes back I expect that complexion

I think I already explained why I was townleaning on NJAC, but it basically boiled down to how he did more to sort people and probe into/understand their thought processes than the vast majority of the playerlist. It was refreshing at a time when the game was full of people not really contributing and throwing out bizarre reads that they couldn't support well, so I might be slightly biased here.

I also acknowledge that my read on him outside of the save is a bit stale with his apparent lack of time to post this cycle. Would help to see his thoughts/reads so far and hopefully reinforce my opinion of him.

Yup I'm happy to go first if we go with it.
Anyone against it state why.

Town points for this. Scum suggesting a massclaim for towncred to draw cops out of hiding would almost definitely at least want to see other claims before risking a claim themselves, so it's unlikely that scum!Vedith proactively volunteered to go first here without any outside pressure.

Gamma scum.

Too late, you won't be stopping this.
The people that are going to be against a mass reveal mostly are Scum.

On the other hand, I don't like this.

It should be obvious that the idea of bringing everyone's power out in the open is going to be a controversial one, even if it's for good reasons. Resisting it is hardly AI, especially if scum are aware of the possible backlash.

I am not well so I am not gonna keep it long.
With the entry of two seasoned players in the game, I would have imagined the game would be heading in a spectacular direction.
If earlier the town was lost, it's not misdirected.
I think claiming is the worst and the stupidest idea ever. Unless of course it had to come from scum.
Between Vedith and Titus, I would be more inclined to vote for Vedith also coz he replaces Lunae - someone I couldn't trust before.
As sure as I may sound, I am not sure about this line of action, and I trust nothing dumb will happen under provocation or pressure, but I read Paul's latest posts, and got a doomsday feel. Paul, DO NOT REVEAL! End of discussion.
See you when better.

At least half of the docs in the game are revealed and effectively useless now. By finishing claims we can PoE scum through the numbers to an extent and even more when and if we get scum flips. And we aren't claiming night, just ability.

Because I am not a fan of him randomly claiming, not being here, and being the n1 counter

Why is being the counter-wagon scum indicative?

VOTE: MuttonChop for good measure.

[Agent Sparkles]

Yup I'm happy to go first if we go with it.
Anyone against it state why.

Town points for this. Scum suggesting a massclaim for towncred to draw cops out of hiding would almost definitely at least want to see other claims before risking a claim themselves, so it's unlikely that scum!Vedith proactively volunteered to go first here without any outside pressure.

Actually, this might be a moot point since scum know the amount of docs/cops in the setup and they'd want to spread themselves out accordingly anyway

[Agent Sparkles]

I'll wait until Mutton makes his full reply before tearing it down, but I will say that it should be obvious from my content that I'm still townreading NJAC and that my last vote was nowhere near random. And @Mutton, were you serious about the "ignore everything Sheep says" post or not?

[Agent Sparkles]

Yes he is and we have a 6 v 6, so whenever Creature claims we have a solid pool setup which I will explain.

For now,

VOTE: Hellfire Missle

What changed your mind from Sesq?

[Agent Sparkles]

I scumread mutton either way, but I don't think it's necessarily scum-motivated to do that if he wants scum to pile up on the other side and land themselves in a worse PoE situation. Problem is, it doesn't work since scum know the cop/doc ratio anyway and the chances that it'll actually change their claims is very slim.

[Agent Sparkles]

Well mutton ninja'd me, but basically that

[Agent Sparkles]

VOTE: mutton

I don't really give a shit, forgot how lally this site is so it's inevitable. I'm gonna be lynched.
you guys WILL lynch in agent and sheep tomorrow, and if you hit town the other goes after. cinch.

Did you really just give up the moment a wagon on you started?

[Agent Sparkles]

Like I don't think town just refuses to fight their lynch if they really believe that they're pushing obvscum, but realize that what you're doing is extremely anti-wincon if you really are town

[Agent Sparkles]

Also CS, if you scum read him either way, Mutton did it with scum motive.

Probably, but what I mean is that the action itself doesn't really imply scum motivation IMO.

[Agent Sparkles]

VOTE: Mutton

Docs became optimal play, as there is a gauaranteed scum in there now.

Mutton today. Sesq and Hellfire later

As much as I scumread Sparkles, yeah I agree that this is optimal.
VOTE: MuttonChopMagic

Are you going to respond back to me?

[Agent Sparkles]

Like I don't think town just refuses to fight their lynch if they really believe that they're pushing obvscum, but realize that what you're doing is extremely anti-wincon if you really are town

This. So much this.

doesn't matter. I know when there's no chance. this playerlist is not going to change their minds
it's pro wincon if people actually listen to my lynch order. of course, egos mean that almost never happens, but worth a try

God, I see this mindset too much and I want to kill it with fire.

Killing yourself won't suddenly make your reads or pushes more valid, regardless of alignment. Especially when you've done things like try to push slips that are painfully obviously not there. You still haven't made a case on me, by the way, just an empty post discrediting a bunch of arguably valid points.

[Agent Sparkles]

@Gamma

Then why are you saying those pairs are town? People can use doctors on mafia.

Clearly one of us didn't, otherwise we would almost definitely not be in this scenario. And I never said both pairs were necessarily town- in fact, even with my townlean on Sheep, I think your D2 play is among the scummiest.

[Agent Sparkles]

"I mean, there's absolutely nothing in my Day 1 that suggests I didn't town read him, as I only called him town and defended him,

but even a semi-competent scum player would have the same

"
um, so theres two ways to interpret this and both from your end are still lame
so firstly, the bolded is you slipping that you're scum and any competent scum would defend gamma...

"3. The bold is clearly describing myself - as saying that about Gamma makes no sense, but even if I *was* saying that about Gamma it wouldn't magically invalidate my other reasons even if I, for some reason, thought both."

so it's describing yourself. you scum slipped. nice bro.

you said any semi competent scum player
you directly implied you were scum
later

Mutton pushing a "slip"

[Agent Sparkles]

Gamma, you are either scum or being deliberately blind here.

UNVOTE:

So this is interesting.

I'm not fully caught up as I'm writing this, but at least one pair of {Sheep, Gamma} and {Alban, Creature} is probably town. I don't think it's unbelievable for there to be multiple N1 docs

given that there was already a save with 12 players still alive,

and it would be a pretty dumb gambit for alban to fakeclaim doc after two claims had already happened unless there are more cops than doctors and he's purposely manipulating that knowledge.

Almost everyone was still alive and yet there was a save. This makes it very plausible that one of the protects was attacked even if it wasn't NJAC.

I don't think that two scum claim after me, and I don't think that scum!alban claims there either way.

It logically follows that there's probably a town pair in those four players. I'm becoming more convinced as time goes on that you aren't part of one.

[Agent Sparkles]

You have to really stretch to try to shape that as me explicitly not believing that NJAC was attacked, and knowing that makes it clear how weak your push on me is.

[Agent Sparkles]

But the protects aren't confirmed even if the doc is
You made this point yourself and FOSed me off it
VOTE: Agent Sparkles

Quote one post in my ISO where I FOSed you because of this. I guarantee that it's not there.

And don't try to stretch something I've said to the point where you're creating entirely new meaning out of it.

[Agent Sparkles]

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

[Agent Sparkles]

"I mean, there's absolutely nothing in my Day 1 that suggests I didn't town read him, as I only called him town and defended him,

but even a semi-competent scum player would have the same

"
um, so theres two ways to interpret this and both from your end are still lame
so firstly, the bolded is you slipping that you're scum and any competent scum would defend gamma...

"3. The bold is clearly describing myself - as saying that about Gamma makes no sense, but even if I *was* saying that about Gamma it wouldn't magically invalidate my other reasons even if I, for some reason, thought both."

so it's describing yourself. you scum slipped. nice bro.

you said any semi competent scum player
you directly implied you were scum
later

Mutton pushing a "slip"

A small part of a lengthy ish case
and considering I was already voting sheep before that, clearly not all I see of his face

My problems with it are still there. You clearly believed (or at least pretended to believe) what you were saying and used it with conviction, so why should the fact that it's not the main part of your case change my mind?

[Agent Sparkles]

ok, so we lynch in cop pool, right?

What are you coasting for? I still haven't seen anything I've been waiting for from you.

[Agent Sparkles]

AS says that one pair of CS/me and alban/creature is town, leaves himself and NJAC out
Later recalls the pairing being town bit in one of his big wallposts and FOSes me
That wasn't FOSing me on that point but he has been clearly making shit up as he goes along
Can we lynch this please?

Are you actually reading my posts at all?

[Agent Sparkles]

@Mutton: Not really that you pointed it out, but that you were so easily sold on it being a scumslip in a way that could easily be fixed just by looking at it from an honest and unbiased perspective. I feel like you were forcing a push because of it and not sorting him genuinely.

[Agent Sparkles]

Yes
And you totally backtracked your pairing being town thing
Wait
Actually that may not be as scummy as I thought
I'll look back though our conversation

Didn't backtrack anything, just don't think that you/Sheep are an all-town pair anymore based on your play today. Alban/Creature is more likely, although I'm still wary of the latter.

[Agent Sparkles]

I think Sparkles might just be a massive idiot who thinks mafia would only claim a protect on their partner

This is related to our argument how?

I don't think scum would do that in most cases, actually.

[Agent Sparkles]

Getting off for now

[Agent Sparkles]

Okay then why did you think the pairs outside of yours had to be town?

I didn't. You're putting words in my mouth again.

[Agent Sparkles]

ok, so we lynch in cop pool, right?

What are you coasting for? I still haven't seen anything I've been waiting for from you.

oh yeah i forgot

VOTE: Agent Sparkles

stop talking to me

If you're going to flat-out refuse to play pro-town and then naked vote me for being on your case about it, I have no qualms about you being lynched, especially since you've never shown any indication of scumreading me.

[Agent Sparkles]

You legitimately said that one of the other pairs were Town.

It wasn't the absolute that you phrased it as and I didn't say that all four of you were town. There's only so much credit I'm willing to give based off of it

[Agent Sparkles]

@Mod

My vote should be on Gamma, not myself

[Agent Sparkles]

What part?
Can you explain why a bit more?

his entire play is an act that has, as my patience, worn thin

VOTE: paul

i died a little on the inside

What do you think of the gamestate? Is there anyone besides Sesq you want lynched? I still have almost no clue what you're thinking right now.

[Agent Sparkles]

Are people willing to consider a Gamma wagon? If we're sniping from doctor claims, I want him dead tomorrow.

VOTE: MuttonChop if this is still possible. Not lynching docs outside of this and Sesq.

[Agent Sparkles]

Before I get substantive posts out I'd like to point out that I don't oppose the Sesq wagon, she's just not my first priority

[Agent Sparkles]

Also deadline is a lot closer than I thought, we need to keep an eye on that

[Agent Sparkles]

V/LA for undetermined time

Probably should've said this in the morning when I had the chance, but this was relatively unexpected.

[Agent Sparkles]

I should have (to some extent) more access now. I'll get to solving this tomorrow, but it might be a long and painstaking process after how much I missed. I don't want to replace out despite the circumstances

[Agent Sparkles]

yay

[Agent Sparkles]

The n1 doc claim wasn't a planned thing, by the way. Once I saw that the kill failed I was paranoid of the possibility of two town clears, so I claimed a protection on my top "townread" and did it as early as possible for maximum towncred. It turned out to be unnecessary because there were two N1 protects, but it helped RC in MyLo so *shrug*

[Agent Sparkles]

I would have lynched almost all of the same people as town here ftr.

Also Mutton did have me pinned as likely scum, but the town wasn't really swayed, especially since he was much more focused on Sheep.