Mini Normal 1905: Complete

[Michael Lee]

rb is town

glad flubber self hammered because I think thats scum giving up

I still have kasumeat melanora but if kasumeat flips scum then melanora gets towncred for lynching 2x scum so I'll reconsider her tbh

not sure who the 3rd would be but definitely look at the people who pushed tywin d1 + acted the scummiest imo, + who defended the scumflips the most (by that time we should have 2 scumflips)

thinking a bit ahead here

[Michael Lee]

lol gamma specifically said "ill vote if you promise well vote flubber tomorrow" to boonskiies iirc, I disagreed with it at the time, but, voting tywin was after he realized town was set on the lynch so it wasnt on him or rb imo

[Michael Lee]

VOTE: Melanora

Right on Flubber, wrong on Kasum, I said 2 out of 3 scum and I think I'll be right on Melanora

Also kasum seriously wtf

[Michael Lee]

I have a pretty bad feeling about my survival this day. Oops, don't be wrong about a scum lynch. Really surprised to see kasu flip town after flub scum,

and

that he was killed at all. There are two obvious reasons, I think, someone might be willing to reveal one of them?

Vote melanora

Still the most scummy and my next-most plausible buddy with flub.

wait........ why are you asking vig to claim? vig should stay hidden, it is beyond obvious that gamma was nightkilled and kasumeat was vigged

which means we have to look into the people that scumread gamma. surely, if town scumread gamma, scum would've hopped on. we also have to check between who scumread kasumeat, but not because it's a scumtell (hell, I was certain kasumeat was scum, everyone was), but more in the sense that at least 1 scum would've pushes kasumeat: AKA if there are 2-3 people still alive who all townread gamma, they're not a team. if they're 2-3 people still alive that all townread kasumeat, they're defiitely not a team.

[Michael Lee]

so I think scum has:

1 or 0 on flubber vote
1 or 2 on tywin lynch, or, supporting the lynch
1 or 2 on gamma being scum
1 or 2 on kasumeat being scum

which should clear out a lot of possibilities. from my PoV I think they probably have at least 1 on me being scum as well, but since flubber pushed me and flipped scum, not sure that will still be true

also the people who called flubber out the earliest, were persistent in him getting lyched, and pushed flubber the hardest and didn't switch to gamma/kasumeat/etc. are lockclear towread as well

[Michael Lee]

And I agree with RB

I believe that mela was the counter wagon to flubber, making her town. I haven't been hard scum reading her through most of the game anyway. That leaves CoolDog or Backhand as scum. Going to look at the voting patterns first

Is there a reason fuzzy is conf town?

or is it for being on flubber

I didn't like his earlier posts but I like who he pushed

cooldog looks bad agree, not sure on backhand though

[Michael Lee]

vote:rb

obvious reasons are obvious.

so you ignore everything that happened day 1?

[Michael Lee]

UNVOTE:

I'm not vig. If no one counterclaims Melanora is confirmed town

[Michael Lee]

vote:rb

obvious reasons are obvious.

so you ignore everything that happened day 1?

no, I'm taking into account how rb didn't want to lynch flubber

d1

, hopped and then bussed his teamate d2. Fucking duh. Look at the twyl wagon and then the flubber wagon... his buss isn't even that 'hard' given the fact that he posts very little and basically sat his vote there all day...

I should have shot rb instead.

Want to know why gamma is dead? Because he was confirmed town.

Rb is definitely scum at this point.

this is a vig claim, no?

but from what I can remember, rb did want to lynch flubber day 1? and day 2. rb is like conf town for all I care, he made a BUNCH of good townreads and he manhandled the flubber lynch through

VOTE: CoolDog

[Michael Lee]

UNVOTE:

I'm not vig. If no one counterclaims Melanora is confirmed town

How?

What do you mean?

2 people died at night, melanora claims to be vig

are you saying there's another explanation? like I assume the vig shot kasumeat

I mean I assume scumvig/old dirty bastard/serial killer.etc - aren't allowed in normal setups right? so I assume there's a townvig

correct me if wrong though

[Michael Lee]

yea tbh I'm going to assume "vig claim is town until counterclaimed" and even

if

she were to get counterclaimed, we'd still have to decide on who to believe

people who lynched a uncounterclaimed role rop day 1, take note

[Michael Lee]

I still think that voting cooldog is a play, and if Flubber flips town, RB is basically conf scum in my eyes, but I'll play this game.

VOTE: /vote Flubber

if you think RB is confscum why are you not .

I think cooldog is for sure scum and after that I'm willing to look into everyone again

What are the arguments for rb?

[Michael Lee]

sorry quoted that because you kind of defended flubber there

but you also bussed him early if you were scum... which made me reconsider

forgot I had the quote tbh

[Michael Lee]

I'm still going to look into everyone and do what I said I was going to do btw aka looking at which people pushed who and where they voted etc, will post once I'm done

[Michael Lee]

I think cooldog is the obvious candidate right now

[Michael Lee]

Also, I did promise to vote for Flubb if I was wrong about TL, so... How is that bussing?

it was my response to fuzzy, and it was a reason for me to think fuzzy could be town

I think you're confirmed town unless if you get counterclaimed, simply for the vig

like if you're serial killer then we see another nightkill next night, but you claimed 1-shot, so that will solve itself. and I don't expect it, so I consider you confirmed town

[Michael Lee]

wow didn't know I had a prod

alright so I don't have anything to add right now

other then I've given my thoughts of what scum does, and I think cooldog is scum for one, and the other will be find through that methode

and I obviously want to see more from cooldog/rb as well now, don't think rb has been prod dodging all game but just this weekend though

[Michael Lee]

Whymafia is probably town. If we're going to pick a compromise shrug of a lynch, I'd rather it be choof than flubber.

Ugggghhh....he is so scummy! This makes me absolutely not okay with flubber being lynched.

Also against the flubber lynch--it just seems real unlikely that none of you (boon), gamma, rb, tywin, and whymafia are scum, and all of those people were ok with it.

EBWOP: and michael, forgot he was on the flubber wagon too.

Sigh. I'm not seeing flub, won't be hammering. Rb, I kind of agree with you, but mostly don't want tfl to have made it to day 2, with 50 pages, without a single goddamn opinion.

Woke up, caught up. On phone, will post more at work.

Two thoughts: choof really needs to not tell us, and ideally flip a coin, for protecting tywin tonight.

And flubber is the lynch that gets us the most info. I would have little confidence in whichever of the kasu or boon wagons we get going now, we're too scattered.

Vote flubber

Backhand, would you be willing to lynch one his scumbros Michael or Gamma today instead?

In order, I'd prefer:

Flub
Michael
Gamma

OK, let's break out the scenarios.

Tywin is scum

OK, he claims rolecop. He has to hope:

A. He doesn't get countered
B. He doesn't get targeted by choof and choof dies (WEAK jailkeeper, remember?)
C. There's not an SK, because they probably want him dead whether they believe him or not.

Now, smart mafia (I don't totally want to get into this but I assume they'll figure it out) might decide to target choof so either way, only choof dies. But if tywin is lying, we've got some other power roles I would think, they'll know what to do.



this implies that Backhand knew that if Choof targeted Tywin, that Choof would die. He tried to fix it, but the response given points towards it even more, as the conclusion from that shouldn't be to go and defend Tywin.

Yes, in the hypothetical I very clearly titled: Tywin is Scum.

I don't see how you're not seeing that there are so many ways to verify his claim during the night.

Doesn't the straight split also indicate that flub could be scum? In which case gamma/michael/why/cool are probably town and their switch isn't indicative.

For the record, the

funniest

team is mel/rb/tfl. They'd be having a great day without having really done a thing.

Well.


OK flubwagon, if you think flub is scum you're running out of practical partners to pair him with. Time to move on?

look I think flubber + mel could be scum together simply for they scream the same way, and their "HOW HOW HOW" posts remind me of each other (and ive seen scum do this a lot of time, prob unconsciously or they affect each other in the QT, same mindstate, etc. so they tend to act the same towards some things)

kill flubber today

Down for Mel, but who is third in that group?

Vote Flub

Going on gut that Boon was a counter wagon on the Flub wagon

Counterwagon led by who exactly?

honestly I do think entire scumteam was on the tywin lynch

Mel was on the tywin lynch. . . just saying.

The only people who townread Tywin are scum. Lynching him was correct.

Well, that's not true.

You are assuming that bc Boon flipped town his reads are good. Not sure if theres a term for assuming a flipped player reads are correct but it seems that this is whats happening

We don't know that they're right, but we do at least know they were honest. Gets a slight promotion for that.

VOTE COUNT 1.14

Flubbernugget (6): Gamma Emerald, WhyMafia, Michael Lee, Tywin Lannister, CooLDoG, rb
Tywin Lannister (4): Kasumeat, Backhand, Boonskiies, Flubbernugget
rb (1): choof

No Vote (2): Melanora, TheFuzzylogic99

With 13 players living, 7/13 votes are required to lynch.

And to reiterate, I can't look at this vote count and think its at all likely that flub is scum.

Better cool than flubber. . . although I'm not sure why ScumCool doesn't just hammer TownFlub.

ISO'd Backhand and quoted relevant posts. Has been pushing townies all game and like a lot of them - then pushes flubber for a moment which I wanted to give towncred BUT later on he goes on and keeps pushing townielynches over flubber all the time. This guy is almost confirmed scum. Quoted the cooldog-backhand post because I can't completely fit it inside my hand (as to whether they're a team or not) but it could be distancing so I won't read into that. I'll read into his actions and he hasn't pushed flubber/cooldog consistently / that hard.

VOTE: Backhand

honestly backhand - cooldog wouldn't be a crazy team right now right? if we're going to give boon and fuzzy some credit for killing flubber

[Michael Lee]

EBWOP: "If we're going to give rb and fuzzy some credit for killing flubber"

why did I put boon in there lol

[Michael Lee]

yea I don't know if it matters if we lynch backhand or cooldog first

high chance they're both scum, and a low chance one of them is scum, but no way they're both town right now

[Michael Lee]

So it's because you're scum, I see

LOL THIS GUY

10/10 great entrance

[Michael Lee]

VOTE: Not_Mafia

Despite great entrance

Doesn't even try to read the game or catch scum. Comes in, sees he's scum and has votes on him, and is like "why did I sub in again FML" basically

[Michael Lee]

L-1 on Not_Mafia

[Michael Lee]

That was my concern, immediately calls people scum but there's no way he has actually read anything yet

[Michael Lee]

I think we win by lynching cool and backhand tbh

[Michael Lee]

I think Not_Mafia is the correct lynch on the off chance that backhand is town but either way we can afford both lynches I think so I don't strongly care either

[Michael Lee]

Tbh I'm trying to figure out who is town in that lynchpool more than anything. I'm certain that Melanora is town. Michael Lee is a really strong townread. If I have one more strong townread, we win the game no matter what. I want to make this lynchpool 3 ppl rather than 4 because we could still theoretically fuck it up if we lynch town twice in a row.

I find it hard to believe one of Backhand/Cooldog isn't scum though.

I basically agree with this--and for what its worth I'd go 60 percent tfl, 30 percent rb, and 10 percent why.

wait you mean cooldog 100% scum, and the tfl 60% as being his partner right? almost read this wrong for a sec

[Michael Lee]

damn that sucks

does mylo/lylo get announced in normal games? I mean it's either 1 scum left, or 2 scum left + lylo right

[Michael Lee]

I want to hear from everyone first

[Michael Lee]

I like you + backhand for scum, but I'll look into whymafia and rb as well

[Michael Lee]

WhyMafia's ISO looks way worse than I thought

connects hard with rb / flubber extremely early on

like rb+whymafia have been asking to kill flubber for so long now

and truth be told, backhand had a scummy as hell ISO but on second thought it would be extremely dumb for town to play that way, like why not just bus flubber at this point

and I didn't like fuzzy earlier on so idk

but I think I may be down for a whymafia lynch today

I mean I've called people confirmed scum that flipped either town or scum but whymafia

"(This is probably really bad reasoning. My apologies. It's just that I'm really sure he's scum)"

on flubber.... thats almost a scumslip. and rb wanted flubber dead as well

like whymafia also kind of agreed when kasumeat called tywin vs boon scum vs scum which I found to be rediculous to begin with, but maybe it makes sense for town to suggest stupid things and for scum to confirm them by agreeing?

I will analyze the flashwagon on rb again though

like whymafia would quote me early on and say "meh
please comment what you think on Flubber"

this seems like such a hard bus attempt tbh

I mean it makes sense right

rb wanted backhad cooldog dead

backhand didnt act scummy after we "caught" him at all tbh

whymafia says backhand or me....

rofl im almost 100% whymafia is scum and backhand is town and then the other scum is probably rb possibly fuzzy

When I said something to whymafia he said "Yes I am very hard to read mwahahah" - not sure wtf he's laughing at, at outplaying us? town wants to be townread right, not laugh at being unreadable?

OMG I AM GOING TO TURN THIS GAME AROUND MAKE IT HAPPEN

TOWN WORK WITH ME



like whymafia barely gives any reason for me being scum he just votes flubber in 2928, doesn't mention me again and now says im scum

[Michael Lee]

VOTE: vote WhyMafia

confident enough to vote

[Michael Lee]

EBWOP

"and truth be told, backhand had a scummy as hell ISO but on second thought it would be extremely dumb for scum to play that way, like why not just bus flubber at this point"

[Michael Lee]

I need to ISO rb dont take my word on him but Im confident in whymafia

[Michael Lee]

I mean it almost worked out so why not? everyone thinks you and rb are town now etc

[Michael Lee]

why would backhand play that awkwardly as scum instead of just bussing flubber when needed? thats too scummy to be scum tbh

[Michael Lee]

UNVOTE:

k giving you the chance to defend yourself

[Michael Lee]

think your initial defense was shit though

[Michael Lee]

I kind of want to discuss rb vs tfl

because I think whymafia is the lynch today

unless if someone can convince me that backhand is scum after all but I really doubt it atm

[Michael Lee]

that's like the scummiest defense ever tbh

it assumes you are town therefore you are town

[Michael Lee]

VOTE: WhyMafia

[Michael Lee]

Yes fuzzy your job is to convince us who the last scum is - unless if you think I'm wrong on whymafia ofc.

Like i'm between you or rb right now so can still be persuaded if the right arguments come up

[Michael Lee]

fuzzy + backhand is ruled out cause they would've hammered

rb hasn't been online so that's not really a good argument

I know I'm town so convincing me I must be scum is not going to work either

so really from my PoV it's either fuzzy/backhand + rb who's been lazy, or it's you, and I'm leaning towards you

but I think your posts today are extremely scummy and when I ISO'd you it makes more sense that you just hard bussed flubber tbh

like I scumread that you but you were beyond confident on ONLY flubber - like boon/kasum/etc were scummy as hell IMO and I doubt someone could "know" exactly only flubber is scum and not the others in this case

aka it screams off perfect information

I wouldn't be surprised at you+rb atm

fuzzy could've pushed me or backhand more by now. if I won't change my mind I'll kill you and rb if it's up to me

[Michael Lee]

I will ISO both fuzzy and rb again before I do that though

but I think youre scum either way and I have backhand as town

[Michael Lee]

and rb wanted backhand+cooldog dead, and listed you last iirc, so really you+rb makes a whole lot of sense

[Michael Lee]

really backhands posts today just scream town and yours scream scum

[Michael Lee]

I read your case. I don't think gradually developing reads while playing is a scum indicator, you call it opportunistic, but scum wants to look good. Town isn't worried about flipflopping but scum is? I don't think these arguments make him scum at all.

[Michael Lee]

I mean whymafia is like confscum to me now while rb is the highest contender afterwards.

[Michael Lee]

But from my PoV I know I'm town so if it's rb/fuzzy + backhand they would've voted you and won already?

[Michael Lee]

I think people should just concede that, these scumteams are ruled out:

rb + tfl
rb + backhand
tfl + backhand

because if those were scum I've given them the chance to win anyway

I know I'm not scum so for me, whymafia is confirmed scum at this point

he's scum with backhand, tfl, or rb. backhand actively wants whymafia dead. rb actively wants whymafia alive and now wants tfl+backhand dead (a scumteam I ruled out)

so for me it's whymafia 100%, and rb like very high chance as well. I rule out whymafia+backhand I think based on their 1v1 but yea idk. scum could do that for towncred. anyway whymafia is confscum from my PoV, he's the lynch 100%

[Michael Lee]

like if I had to say it right now I'd lynch whymafia today and rb tomorrow

[Michael Lee]

it's either me or whymafia and rb doesn't see this (note he called me conf town earlier on so a switch would draw attention, but he also says I'm not cleared which is correct but he doesn't take a hard stance on me being scum, yet his suggested scumteam is ruled out and he ignores this fact which is extremely scummy)

[Michael Lee]

No Vote (5): WhyMafia, Michael Lee, Backhand, TheFuzzylogic99, rb

With 5 players living, 3/5 votes are required to lynch.

me + any 2 that doesn't include whymafia = enough to lynch whymafia

so all teams that don't include whymafia or me are ruled out from anyone's PoV

myself or whymafia HAS to be conf. mafia at this point or scum would've won already

from my PoV whymafia is literally 100% conf. mafia

[Michael Lee]

I'm completely baffled by your explanation
How are teams that don't include either of us ruled out?

ok so if we're both town, any 2 of the others vote, and 3 votes = lynch, and it's mylo so they win?

unless if you're considering scum playing around docs/BP's/whatever. is that your argument?

[Michael Lee]

No Vote (5): WhyMafia, Michael Lee, Backhand, TheFuzzylogic99, rb

With 5 players living, 3/5 votes are required to lynch.

me + any 2 that doesn't include whymafia = enough to lynch whymafia

so all teams that don't include whymafia or me are ruled out from anyone's PoV

myself or whymafia HAS to be conf. mafia at this point or scum would've won already

from my PoV whymafia is literally 100% conf. mafia

Bc I feel like you could be a misguided townie
Therefore you vote me
But it' not like every other team that doesn't include us can be ruled out bc some people haven't been on concurrently

If you think scum would throw a game when they see a vote on a townie on mylo made by another mylo then I don't know what to say

all 3 have responded so all 3 have been online, odds are they would've or would coordinate a hammer by now unless if they're going for most terrible scumteam of they year 2017?

[Michael Lee]

if I was scum and I saw a townie vote another townie and had daychat I'd make sure to find a time to be online lol

my vote has been on you for a while now

you're fighting a losing battle, I know you're conf scum, your best out is to convince ohers I'm scum I guess, not to townread me rofl

[Michael Lee]

thefuzzylogic you decide this game

but I think whymafia confirming himself as mafia here with his panic response vs me solving the game is evident enough

[Michael Lee]

roflwhat

[Michael Lee]

can we post whymafia's play today onto the mafiascum wikia for scumtells 2017 please

[Michael Lee]

dude I KNOW you are scum

and you know I know as well

which explains your play today. and really I had to spell it out for you that you had to scumread me before you did it....and your main defense is what, distracting (mentions at the host or vote count or top post per page), a lot of "I don't know" / excuses, and just weak and soft play overall? also missed all the obvious logical conclusions backhand and I got to. you and rb kept suggesting teams that were already ruled out, literally just scumplay right there. town doesn't play like that

[Michael Lee]

rb isn't even posting and you're not even going against him. you're literally suggesting me+backhand because of "being active today" lol

and your "we don't vote together" makes 0 sense as why would both of us vote but not together? what would we be afraid of? right, nothing, your argument is invalid

[Michael Lee]

I also was about to get backhand AND flubber killed if I was scum and you completely ignore this fact here

[Michael Lee]

how do I distance by voting the same person + outright townreading him + he 99,95% townreading me?

how am I scum with him when I make a case on him being scum and pushing his lynch over cooldog for literally no reason (after I killed flubber)?

lol

[Michael Lee]

like I was ready to go for backhand that day and pushed it hard but you know, everyone wanted cooldog instead (who I also thought was scum)

but yea then I ISO'd you today and now I realize what has been going on this game, and the fact you're not hammered confirms my read. the fact I have to spell everything out to you confirms it to others as well

[Michael Lee]

you agree with me - and now you're backing off it again?

you say no team is ruled out yet you ruled out any team other than backhand+me?

lol nice contradictions

saying my logical conclusions are flawed doesn't actually make them flawed rofl it just makes you a liar / scum

btw didn't you just repeat me+backhand being scum like 3x? and now you say only scum repeats. lol nice

[Michael Lee]

backhand was no where getting lynched certain I pushed hard for backhand over cooldog and it could go either way

which rules me out as never scum with backhand

I had to reason to push backhand over cooldog if I was scum with backhand lol, nice bolding + taking my words out of the context while misinterpretting them

[Michael Lee]

I'm here reading, trying to make proper sense before I vote. A lot of ideas are going around and some of them make surface sense but I disagree because some of them seem really implausible unless my reads are just THAT shit. I'll have to entertain that possibility and rethink this game I guess.

Fuck lylo.

I'll help you out either me or whymafia is conf. scum because otherwise any 2 others could lynch whymafia and win the game since I have my vote on him since forever now (backhand had his vote on him as well tbh)

[Michael Lee]

backhand was no where getting lynched certain I pushed hard for backhand over cooldog and it could go either way

which rules me out as never scum with backhand

I had to reason to push backhand over cooldog if I was scum with backhand lol, nice bolding + taking my words out of the context while misinterpretting them

For the first name do you mean cooldog?

?

cooldog was the likely lynch and I pushed backhand over cooldog that day + made an entire case on backhand

but then I realized he was too scummy to be scum and scum would ever do that because flubber was dead and scum would've just bussed

+ I won you over on flubber vote because you knew it wasn't going anywhere... first you hard scumread him day 1 and tunnel like there's no tomorrow...then you back off it....then when it's going nowhere you bus him anyway

k nice

[Michael Lee]

EBWOP "scum would never do that"

[Michael Lee]

like rb not killing whymafia here just confirms my team (he also doesn't turn against me, obviously doesn't want to make it rb+whymafia vs me, because he'll lose that fight for sure)

gg well played guys, you fooled me until me

[Michael Lee]

EBWOP: "you fooled me until now"

lol im actually hyped at the idea that I've catched 2 unexpected scum in the same day

[Michael Lee]

fuckkk

sorry guys

[Michael Lee]

boon got modkilled for trust tells "I only selfvote as town" which aren't allowed on this site

[Michael Lee]

I had wrong reads, reread and assumed scum bussed early on which got me closer to the team, but got stuck on whymafia so I couldn't see rb + fuzzy anymore

glad with my townread on backhand, not glad with how I played

well played scumteam

[Michael Lee]

whymafia to be honest you were onto flubber etc pretty quickly so you played a pretty strong early game, and got townread etc

like I got paranoid and switched from backhand into another team, but yea I kind of ruined it

either way, I think your defense seemed like you weren't invested / didn't care about the outcome, like you would keep saying you're bad at lylo and focus on irrelevant things like top post etc, which made me think you were nervous/trapped/scum. but yea I was wrong so oh well