Accountant's Utopia Philosophy

[Shaziro]

Imp is right, yeah. Really the better thing to say would be that you do have to back something up for somebody else to believe it on anything but blind faith.

[Shaziro]

If it helps, I don't think you're a troll either, and that's part of why I'm so concerned with this stuff. Right, so, here's the thing Accountant. Wouldn't resistance, as bloody and violent as it can be, affecting both the people resisting and the people not resisting, be worse than one person being a really bad dude that everyone can unite against? It trades one person being bad for loads of people being bad.

[Shaziro]

Resistance isn't as easy to squash as you think, especially resistance towards the scenario you're suggesting.

[Shaziro]

In this scenario, I'd be recommending the eagles that Gandalf knows carry Frodo there rather than them walking there. An easier, safer way, and one that you haven't considered.

[Shaziro]

Unrighteous things are going to be done either way. You're ensuring that only one person is unrighteous, rather than many.

[Shaziro]

It was a general example of an alternative option that is in theory easier, given the scenario Accountant gave.

[Shaziro]

Yes, but there is no betrayal if there is one big bad guy. Your story has no Sauron.

[Shaziro]

That clearly isn't a well enough personified enemy for people to unite. My point is, you're not going about your goals in the most efficient or optimal manner, which I figure would be part of it actually being correct.

[Shaziro]

Yup.

[Shaziro]

You are describing situational morality, Accountant. The act is the same, for instance quickhammering, but the -situation- is different, and that defines the morality of the act.

[Shaziro]

I mean, no it wasn't. If your point was that morality isn't situational...you know, the thing you said...then your point was pretty soundly shot down. Not even with light arms fire, it was some Anti-Air level shootdown.

[Shaziro]

Murder, Accountant. Man murders man. Is it moral or not?

[Shaziro]

Fine. Man kills man. Is it moral or not?

[Shaziro]

I was looking for a picture/comic in the same vein, beat me to it you jerk!

[Shaziro]

Stalin believed in purification too, if it helps!

[Shaziro]

Better here than elsewhere

[Shaziro]

I am a superior being that doesn't need to answer mathematics questions or follow procedures to get the answers I need. That is for unrighteous plebeians. The superiority gives me the divine right to do so, ignoring all the laws of logic and knowledge. Only you, who are below those laws, are bound by them.

Seek help, I beg you.

[Shaziro]

So everybody is what you want them to be.

[Shaziro]

Another large problem with your idea of utopia is that everyone's perfection is different.

[Shaziro]

Your path still allows for personal choice. For instance, snow. Some people like it, some people don't. There is no moral issue there, it's preference. How, then, does a world exist both with and without snow?

[Shaziro]

I prefer no snow anywhere. I think snow is awful, and knowing that there is snow anywhere makes me unhappy.

[Shaziro]

No thanks, I don't want to die.

Elaborate on why drinking or smoking marijuana would mean death?

[Shaziro]

Are you arguing, then, that they effectively can't win the bet because any of them that would win can't collect, because you would be "Dead"?

[Shaziro]

Happy Birthday Not_Mafia!

[Shaziro]

It is also the number of zeroes in the new you's bank.

[Shaziro]

Actually, if they converted, they would also die. You can only save exactly as many people as you kill, by your own logic.

[Shaziro]

How can the correct path be real if our eyes aren't real?

[Shaziro]

Wait.

any act, speech, words, publication or other thing shall not be deemed to be seditious by reason only that it has a tendency —
(c) to persuade the citizens of Singapore or the residents in Singapore to attempt to procure by lawful means the alteration of any matter in Singapore;

Isn't this the case? I usually promote education and peaceful transfer of power over violent revolt, except in the most extreme cases.

It doesn't matter if you usually promote education and peaceful transfer of power, you also promote violent revolt if the former doesn't work, which immediately drops it back into illegal.

[Shaziro]

It's the equivalent of "I usually don't shoplift, unless I really can't afford the thing after a while, in which case I just steal the one thing."

[Shaziro]

Just because something is illegal does not mean it is instantly enforced. It is illegal for people to kill other people, but people get away with murder all the time.

[Shaziro]

Your title is not for saying things that are self evident, it's for claiming that the things you say are self evident.

[Shaziro]

[Shaziro]

Did you become admin? ur name is red.

That's the innate evil tinting.

[Shaziro]

Given that Accountant is only meant to be discussing their ideology here, wouldn't all discussion of it and therefore the topic in general be forced to end if people just stopped talking here?

[Shaziro]

Given that Accountant is only meant to be discussing their ideology here, wouldn't all discussion of it and therefore the topic in general be forced to end if people just stopped talking here?

You realize what social interaction is?

People choose to talk to Accountant about it because, wait for it...

fun

.

It was a theoretical question. Look at my posting history in this thread before making assumptions.

[Shaziro]

Would you say that you are perfectly orderly, Accountant?

[Shaziro]

Fair enough.

[Shaziro]

The problem with that argument, Gin, is that Accountant's arguments are based in the idea that Accountant will eventually beat logic somehow. So arguing with logic doesn't work. Accountant basically begs the question and then says that's not a bad thing.

[Shaziro]

Accountant, you realize that when you say things like 3429, you come off as a cultist, yes?

[Shaziro]

Accountant, you realize that when you say things like 3429, you come off as a cultist, yes?

I don't care how I come off. Morality is not a popularity contest.

If you want to get people on your side, you have to care about how you come off.

[Shaziro]

You have to convince people to enforce re-education. To do that, you either need lots of money, or the ability to convince them of your opinion. For society to "realize the truth" you have to convince them. Try again.

[Shaziro]

Pyramid posting aside, Accountant, that is a fairly important question. If time travel is possible, then it is morally good to cause order sooner rather than waiting for it. If time travel is impossible, then it is something that even your correct path cannot overcome, which proves that it is fallible.

[Shaziro]

Depends on if he thinks a non-Big Banged universe is more or less orderly or good. In theory though, yes.

[Shaziro]

You know the Correct Path better than anyone, yes?

If this is true, why would the Correct Path deny time travel? Show your work.

[Shaziro]

Do you agree that you should strive to better understand it, and improve yourself as such? If so, then you should strive to find the answer. Or is that impossible for you to do?

[Shaziro]

Ok, para-consistant thinking. I'm going to do whatever the hell I want, but also not do it from a hypothetical perspective. Therefore I am perfectly good, right? If I hypothetically follow your path, but in reality don't, I'm a good person.

[Shaziro]

Ok, para-consistant thinking. I'm going to do whatever the hell I want, but also not do it from a hypothetical perspective. Therefore I am perfectly good, right? If I hypothetically follow your path, but in reality don't, I'm a good person.

Yes, you can! However, one question I'd like to pose is why you don't want to follow my path in reality.

Because your path consists of the ravings of a teen who should seek help, its a gross cult, and it requires you to say "just pretend I'm right" so many times it makes you look like a 6 year old trying to get away with something after learning about "make believe".

[Shaziro]

Hey, Accountant? You're not the hero. You're the raving villager who calls himself the "Prophet of Heaven Above All Else" that the heroes meet when the DM wants to throw in some comedy. You're a plot hook at best.

Also, as a side note, loads of people agree that it is morally righteous not to lie, and that it is important not to. They still lie. Agreement with and belief in the moral value of something doesn't affect actions very much at all. There's actually this whole concept that is really interesting when you're doing psychological stuff that if you -ask- somebody what they think, they'll give one answer, but will almost always perform differently if you observe their actions. I can't remember the term for it right now, though, which is p. bad on my part, but finals are coming up and right now I'm cramming grammar.

[Shaziro]

You don't get to say "one rule for me, a different rule for you". Sorry, just doesn't work.

Also, have you considered the fact that you won't live for the centuries, and the only way your ideas will last that long is if you convince others?

[Shaziro]

Nnnno. If a hero kills somebody, they have to have a good reason. It isn't just assumed they did. Real life is also not a storybook. But, if you want "oh my 'correct path' says I can do X" to hold weight, you have to prove that your "correct path" is right. It isn't self evident, and you can only "prove" it by begging the question to the best of my knowledge, which is logically invalid.

Cryonics don't work. Sorry. As for the whole "I'm a set of ideals" thing, those ideals die with you if you can't convince people to agree.

[Shaziro]

Prove that the universe is structured that way without using "self evident" or "because correct path" as your proof. For reasons why those aren't viable answers, please see every post in this thread explaining that.

Nothing is above logic. Proving black is dark is easy. You define darkness, usually by a maximum amount of light produced by or reflected by the thing in question, and then see if the color black fits that definition. You have to do similar. Good luck.

Do you think you're the smartest person alive, since you're the only one who agrees with your ideals?

[Shaziro]

To prove the correct path is correct is like proving that the color black is dark. It is completely ridiculous. You cannot say "prove that the color black is dark-colored before I accept that it is".

BTW, that can easily be proven.

I did it in like....two sentences, I think?

[Shaziro]

Nah, I'm pretty sure Kublai has a mandate of heaven.

[Shaziro]

TIL: Accountant doesn't know shit about storytelling, and also is the only person who can annoy Adawg to the point of her using sarcasm.

[Shaziro]

I mean, when you started declaring that your morals are the best and everyone else should follow them and that you're God, you lost any "debate" there was. People get annoyed when self-righteous jerks act like self-righteous jerks, but I'm sure you have lots of experiences with that regardless.

In storytelling, there are Dynamic Characters and Static Characters. Main characters are almost always dynamic in some way, because of the Hero's Journey. The call to action, the denial of the call, etc. Non-main-characters, or NPCs in games, are most often static characters. They don't change, because they are there for the dynamic characters to interact with and develop themselves, and the NPC's development is unimportant. So no, by being super rigid in your beliefs and repeating yourself over and over, you become the NPC. You're the equivalent of the random villager in town who just says "Press 'A' to jump!" whenever you talk to him. Grats.

[Shaziro]

No, you literally outright said it. I have quoted it in this thread, several times in fact. Your only argument against it is more "paraconsistant thinking" nonsense. It doesn't work, you said it, and you made the mistake of challenging me to prove it. You probably should have stuck to not giving me permission to share the contents of private conversations. You also aren't right. KK has a mandate of heaven that says he's right, and I agree.

[Shaziro]

my manifesto.

lol

[Shaziro]

Whew. That's a whole lot of not understanding storytelling.

[Shaziro]

No, you literally outright said it. I have quoted it in this thread, several times in fact. Your only argument against it is more "paraconsistant thinking" nonsense. It doesn't work, you said it, and you made the mistake of challenging me to prove it. You probably should have stuck to not giving me permission to share the contents of private conversations. You also aren't right. KK has a mandate of heaven that says he's right, and I agree.

No, you have absolute permission to share the contents of everything that I've said to you, Shaziro. I do not want people thinking that I secretly said "I am God" in some private conversation and am hiding it by refusing to give you permission to share it. Thus, I say this to you, the absolute word of truth: I have never, ever, claimed that I am God. Ever. This is a final, absolute statement. There is no wordplay here, despite what you claim. There is no shenanigans or sophistry. It is just the simple admission of fact: I have never claimed that I am God. If you have proof against it, I challenge you to quote where I said it. You cannot; because I am right.

I have quoted it. Many times. You just argue that "Me saying I'm God isn't me saying I'm God". That is innately untrue. Your argument to that being innately untrue is "It's almost like reality warps to be what I say"...but it doesn't. You have no control over reality.

Whew. That's a whole lot of not understanding storytelling.

Bald assertion without evidence. I invented storytelling.

Lol no you didn't. You're not God, people have been telling stories for a long -long- time before you were born.

my manifesto.

lol

Do you find it a humorous concept? Not_Mafia suggested that I write it as a guide in order to help people understand the correct path. As a teacher, it is my job to help people understand the correct path, so it seemed a great idea.

No no, definitely write a manifesto. It's great. Totally awesome. Name it "Perjuangan saya"

Your only argument against it is more "paraconsistant thinking" nonsense.

Please do not lie to people. I have theorized about the possibility of paraconsistent thinking, but I am a very consistent person with strong, absolute convictions. Therefore, I would never engage in paraconsistent thinking. It is nothing but a shield for liars to hide behind in order to mask their hypocrisy or inconsistency.

If "paraconsistent thinking" is a shield for liars, then wouldn't future "correct path" followers who use it be liars, and therefore not "correct path" followers? You just shot a massive hole in your own reasoning for why future "correct path" followers haven't come back and imposed order. Congrats, now you have to find another reason for that. Do you ever get tired of shooting yourself in the foot while trying to think up a response to the overwhelming proof that you're wrong?

[Shaziro]

Accountant (05:35)
But let me tell you a secret
Accountant (05:35)
I am actually God

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1IBk ... sp=sharing

[Shaziro]

I'm going to repeat what I said in post 1962. I would never say that I am God. I would never claim that I am God. The PM I sent you reads:

Accountant (05:35)
But let me tell you a secret
Accountant (05:35)
I am actually God

This is correct, and there is no contradiction or lie in this. I have never, and will not, claim that I am God.

[Shaziro]

Your only argument against it is more "paraconsistant thinking" nonsense.

Please do not lie to people. I have theorized about the possibility of paraconsistent thinking, but I am a very consistent person with strong, absolute convictions. Therefore, I would never engage in paraconsistent thinking. It is nothing but a shield for liars to hide behind in order to mask their hypocrisy or inconsistency.

If "paraconsistent thinking" is a shield for liars, then wouldn't future "correct path" followers who use it be liars, and therefore not "correct path" followers? You just shot a massive hole in your own reasoning for why future "correct path" followers haven't come back and imposed order. Congrats, now you have to find another reason for that. Do you ever get tired of shooting yourself in the foot while trying to think up a response to the overwhelming proof that you're wrong?

Paraconsistent thinking is not a shield for liars. I've never shot myself in the foot, despite how you always claim I do.

In the first place, like I've said many times before, it's a crucial tool for achieving seemingly impossible results that everyone should have. Just because you think it's silly doesn't mean you get to characterize the people who use it as liars. I use it, and I'm not a liar.

[Shaziro]

It is nothing but a shield for liars to hide behind in order to mask their hypocrisy or inconsistency.

Paraconsistent thinking is not a shield for liars.

[Shaziro]

I'm quoting your contradictions, and you shooting yourself in the foot. It's funny.

[Shaziro]

It is nothing but a shield for liars to hide behind in order to mask their hypocrisy or inconsistency.

Paraconsistent thinking is not a shield for liars.

This is a contradiction.

If you feel like my quotes are irrelevant, feel free to report them to site staff folks. I guarantee you that they'll disagree.

[Shaziro]

In the former, you say that "paraconsistent thinking" is a shield for liars. You do not say anything about it being an expression of disgust for cowards or whatever. You just claim that it's a shield. You then later claim that it isn't a shield. You do this a lot, saying one thing, and then when people point out that you're a hypocrite, you try to argue that you -meant- something completely different than what you said. You're a liar.

[Shaziro]

No no, definitely write a manifesto. It's great. Totally awesome. Name it "Perjuangan saya"

Why that name?

Because Google Translate says that translates from Malay into "My Struggle".

[Shaziro]

I am not a liar. Paraconsistent thinking

is

a shield for liars.

Paraconsistent thinking is not a shield for liars.

[Shaziro]

Well, if mandates of heaven are only given to those who support the correct path and I was given a mandate of heaven, then you must admit that you are not the follower of the correct path and I am. Iron-clad.

The correct path states that order is good. Do you accept this? If not, you can't possibly be a follower and must be lying about your mandate.

The correct path states that chaos is good. If you don't accept this then you're not a follower and your mandate is false.

No it doesn't.

Yes it does.

Where is your proof?

I'm KK's proof.

[Shaziro]

My opinion is fact. If you can claim that, so can I, right?

[Shaziro]

I am not a liar. Paraconsistent thinking

is

a shield for liars.

Paraconsistent thinking is not a shield for liars.

That is not proof that I said that the correct path is a shield for liars. In the quote, ir specifically says:

Paraconsistent thinking is not a shield for liars.

I never claimed you said the "correct path" is a shield for liars. I claimed you said that "paraconsistent thinking" is a shield for liars. Which you did. Stop trying to lie about what I said, it looks really bad for your whole "I'm morally superior" lie.

My opinion is fact. If you can claim that, so can I, right?

You can't. I can. I am God.

Lol no you aren't. You're a kid with a god complex.

[Shaziro]

The evidence is literally in the post I quoted where you say it "is a shield for liars".

[Shaziro]

My opinion is fact. If you can claim that, so can I, right?

You can't. I can. I am God.

Lol no you aren't. You're a kid with a god complex.

I do not have a God complex. Someone with a God complex believes that they are a supernatural messiah or divine being. I am just a humble servant of the correct path.

[Shaziro]

Look. I get that you're going for broke and just trying to pretend like you aren't contradicting yourself, and you've taken that as an excuse to do nothing -but- contradict yourself and then just say you aren't. But really, just stop. Admit you're wrong. If you would just do that, admit you're wrong and that your ideas are crazy and -maybe- apologize for being a nuisance about them but really that isn't even necessary, you'd find people would enjoy your company a lot more. You seem relatively bright, you're just obsessed with your dumb ideology and yourself.

[Shaziro]

Will you tell them? Cause otherwise I am inclined to belive that dirt is the self-evident truth.

I don't have an account on those forums.

You used to not have an account on this forum.

Better times

[Shaziro]

...called...what? That I would point out the fact that you're ignoring one of the two quotes because you don't want to admit you're wrong?

[Shaziro]

Accountant do you not know what a contradiction is?

[Shaziro]

and then insist that this magically is a contradiction because ??? and you're so delusional that you genuinely think it is somehow

You're getting predictable, Shaz.

...You don't even have the self-awareness of a block of cheese. You have the self awareness of nothing, you have literally none. You could slap yourself and then argue you never slapped yourself.

[Shaziro]

You insisting that there is no evidence doesn't magically poof away the evidence, Accountant. You aren't correct. This has been proven many times. You saying it hasn't doesn't make it so. You're not God, never will be, you're just a person. Get over it. Move on. Stop trying to convince yourself and others that you're special.

[Shaziro]

Yes, you did. And before that, you said it -is- a shield for liars.

[Shaziro]

I am not a liar. Paraconsistent thinking

is

a shield for liars.

[Shaziro]

No, you claiming that it is a shield for liars contradicts when you said that it -isn't- a shield for liars.

[Shaziro]

I've quoted you saying both. Would you like me to do it again? I've also never said which one you believe, I've said that you've stated both.

[Shaziro]

No, you claiming that it is a shield for liars contradicts when you said that it -isn't- a shield for liars.

^^ IN THIS POST, SHAZIRO CLAIMS HE IS A NAZI SUPPORTER. BUT IN PREVIOUS POSTS, HE SAID HE IS AGAINST NAZIS. WHICH IS IT, SHAZIRO? WHY ARE YOU CONTRADICTING YOURSELF?

Hey, if you want to go absolutely cuckoo, two can play at that game, yeah?

Feel free to quote me saying I am a nazi supporter, and me saying I'm against Nazis. The latter will be pretty easy to find. The former will be impossible. Meanwhile, I've quoted you saying contradicting things quite a few times.

[Shaziro]

I am not a liar. Paraconsistent thinking

is

a shield for liars.

This is you saying that "Paraconsistent thinking" is a shield for liars.

Paraconsistent thinking is not a shield for liars.

This is you saying "Paraconsistent thinking" is not a shield for liars.

In the first, you say X. In the second, you say not X. X cannot be both true and false. This is a contradiction. Stop lying to yourself.

[Shaziro]

I am not a liar. Paraconsistent thinking

is

a shield for liars.

This is you saying that "Paraconsistent thinking" is a shield for liars.

Paraconsistent thinking is not a shield for liars.

This is you saying "Paraconsistent thinking" is not a shield for liars.

In the first, you say X. In the second, you say not X. X cannot be both true and false. This is a contradiction. Stop lying to yourself.

[Shaziro]

"X is a shield for liars" does not mean "X is not a shield for liars". That isn't how language works.

[Shaziro]

I am not a liar. Paraconsistent thinking

is

a shield for liars.

This quote is you claiming that paraconsistent thinking is a shield for liars. Yes?

[Shaziro]

Paraconsistent thinking is not a shield for liars.

This is you claiming that paraconsistent thinking is not a shield for liars, yes?

[Shaziro]

You said both things, yes?

[Shaziro]

You posted both 3603 and 3623, including the meanings that are attached to both posts, yes?

[Shaziro]

You posted both 3603 and 3623, including the meanings that are attached to both posts, yes?

Yes.

So you said one thing that means "Paraconsistent thinking is a shield for liars" and one thing that means "Paraconsistent thinking is not a shield for liars"

[Shaziro]

Saying something that means "Paraconsistent thinking is a shield for liars" contradicts saying something that means "paraconsistent thinking is not a shield for liars", yes?

[Shaziro]

Saying two things that contradict one another is a contradiction. I'm done with this. I am so sick of your bullshit, Accountant. I hope you get better.

[Shaziro]

I genuinely didn't realize you hated me like that, Annadog.

[Shaziro]

There's a lot of competition for this spot, but I think I have to push this as the #1 funniest thing posted in this thread.

What is so humorous about my frustration?

[Shaziro]

Accountant. If what somebody does has no negative effect on anyone else, why is it morally wrong?

[Shaziro]

That slaves would be morally wrong to run away from slavery. Speaking of which, I still think you're a monster for that. As a side note.

[Shaziro]

Breaking laws that turn a person into property is good. Calling you a monster for thinking otherwise is wrong, because monsters are intimidating. You're just gross.

[Shaziro]

You aren't correct. You're a child who can't accept when they're wrong and wants to live in their own fantasy world while expecting everyone else to feed into the delusions. It is never going to happen. Grow up.

[Shaziro]

I'm not changing the subject. I'm saying that you're wrong. Grow up.

[Shaziro]

I've said, several times, that a slave escaping slavery helps society rather than detriments it. Slavery is a detrimental-to-society system. Killing its legitimacy is good for society. This should be obvious. Drop your smugness and your superiority act. Get over yourself. Go outside. Grow up.

[Shaziro]

I've said, several times, that a slave escaping slavery helps society rather than detriments it. Slavery is a detrimental-to-society system. Killing its legitimacy is good for society. This should be obvious. Drop your smugness and your superiority act. Get over yourself. Go outside. Grow up.

I agree that killing the legitimacy of slavery is great. But the slave also kills the legitimacy of following the law in general. A law that is not followed to the absolute letter in all respects is worthless. It is known as the "law", not the "suggestions" or the "general guidelines".

Wrong. Drop your smugness and your superiority act. Get over yourself. Go outside. Grow up.

[Shaziro]

When you can prove that your ideology is correct without assuming it is self evident, or arguing that it is correct because it says so, hit me up. Until then, see my last two posts.

[Shaziro]

No, it is like saying to a utilitarian "when you can prove utilitarianism is correct without assuming it is self evident or begging the question".

[Shaziro]

Are slaves breaking the law and escaping equally evil to murderers and rapists?

[Shaziro]

Are you purposefully ignoring my posts now?

[Shaziro]

That isn't how empathy works.

[Shaziro]

Words don't change their meanings just because you personally would like them to. Squiblub isn't empathy and isn't a replacement for it by any means.

[Shaziro]

Your values are not the same as those of others, and the vast majority of people would agree that your values are wrong. Welcome to the world. And no, you can't call your "I think they should do what I want them to" attitude "empathy". They mean very different things.

[Shaziro]

You sure do like to try and talk like you're preaching. No, what you're describing as "your empathy" isn't empathy by any means. Do you think you're smarter than anyone who disagrees with you?

[Shaziro]

The thing you are describing is not defined as empathy. That isn't "trying to tell you what's inside your brain". I've gone out of my way to avoid doing that, you'll note I haven't made any comments on autism for instance, because I recognize that I don't know what is in your brain. But if you describe to me an oval, yellow fruit and then tell me it's an apple, I'll be able to tell you "no, that isn't an apple, it's probably a lemon".

Yes, I keep asking if you think you're smarter than X, because you keep saying X will get smarter and will then agree with me. This implies that you think that you are already smarter than X.

[Shaziro]

Can we not stoop so low as to refer to people we disagree with who aren't hurting anyone as non-human
It's not like that's a terrible mindset that has repeatedly ended horribly in the past or anything

Not to mention it's something that site staff have asked people not to do.

[Shaziro]

But what you described was also not similar to empathy.

As for the latter, you literally completely avoided the point of what I said. Try again.

[Shaziro]

No, what you described was caring for whether or not they agreed with your morals.

You specifically said that people will "Get smarter and see that I'm right". This implies that you are smarter than them, because they need to, to quote you, "catch up". How, then, can you argue that you don't think you're smarter than them?

[Shaziro]

Firstly, if you meant "They need to catch up in morality", then you're still wrong, but you aren't claiming to be smarter than them. So stop saying "they will get smarter", say "they will become more moral". They are very different things. Of course, once again, you'll still be wrong.

What you said was not that you "felt the pain they undergo and sympathize with their plight". What you said was "I empathize with them and their need to be good people". That suggests that you empathize with their need to follow what you believe to be proper morality. That is very different from empathizing with them being slaves. This should be blatantly obvious.

P-edit: Empathetic and empathic apparently mean the same thing, and I didn't know that. Makes me wonder why we have both words.

[Shaziro]

Also, I'm not saying you have no empathy. If I -have- said that, I apologize, but I don't think I have. What I'm saying is that what you are describing is -not- empathy.

[Shaziro]

Nnnno. There is no dilemma. It isn't evil to escape slavery. At all. Also, you're right back to saying that they are not as smart as you. You're pulling the "lol no I said that but that doesn't mean I said that" shit. I'm done here.

[Shaziro]

I lied, I'm not done here. "Squibulb" or whatever. It's close enough to empathy for you to call it that, right? "Paraconsistent thinking" is close enough to doublethink for us to call it that, then. So why call it something different? (The answer, I believe you've admitted, is because one has negative connotations. Doesn't change that one -is- the other, though.) This is what I mean by shooting yourself in the foot.

-Now- I'm done here.

[Shaziro]

Slaves are at fault for their disorderly and rebellious attitude.

Are you fucking kidding me?

[Shaziro]

I'm not here to engage with you, Accountant. I'm here to call out disgusting shit.

[Shaziro]

If someone kills multiple people, do you kill them multiple times?

Sadly, this is impossible, so we just torture them a lil, kill them, and write off the rest of the debt.

Disgusting.

[Shaziro]

Off-topic:

Before I say anything, please explain why you linked this.

[Shaziro]

Explain what about it interested you enough to post it.

[Shaziro]

Do you think that the actions are acceptable, but the reasoning behind them isn't?

[Shaziro]

Fucking gross.

[Shaziro]

Fucking gross.

It is, but saying so is not an effective response.

To be honest I don't know what is an effective response, which is why I'm mostly just trying to get a fully fleshed-out version of how Accountant's mind actually works.

It occurs to me that I should have made my original bet in the opposite direction. Instead of giving Accountant a financial incentive

not

to listen to anything that might alter their opinions, I should have just offered them an incentive

to

denounce their opinions, to see how well their ideals hold up against the slightest of temptations.

I stopped being interested in helping Accountant a while back. I'm more than content to just point out how absolutely vile their ideology is in the hopes the people who otherwise would be convinced by the bullshit will see through it.

[Shaziro]

Fucking gross.

You are literally a plebeian. You think something beautiful is gross because you don't understand it.

A: Yes, I am literally a plebeian. So are you. The word means "one of the common people" in modern terminology. You aren't special.
B: What does being common have to do with thinking things you don't understand are gross?
C: Are you trying to tell me what goes on in my mind?

P-edit: You're not my superior. Never will be.

[Shaziro]

I'm more than content to just point out how absolutely vile their ideology is in the hopes the people who otherwise would be convinced by the bullshit will see through it.

nobodies like you

I'd also appreciate you not doing this.

[Shaziro]

Plebian does not equal nobody.

[Shaziro]

A: Yes, I am literally a plebeian. So are you. The word means "one of the common people" in modern terminology. You aren't special.
B: What does being common have to do with thinking things you don't understand are gross?
C: Are you trying to tell me what goes on in my mind?

A. I am the most righteous person in the entire world. Piss off.
B. Because you aren't cultured enough to appreciate the beauty of someone who is utterly convinced they are correct.
C You said yourself you don't understand me and find it gross. YOU told me what goes on in your mind.

No, you aren't. Beauty is subjective. Saying I think it's gross doesn't mean I think it's gross because I don't understand it. Quit being a hypocrite.

[Shaziro]

Don't believe I have, and if I have that doesn't mean that the reason I think something you say is gross is because I don't understand it. Correlation and causation and whatnot.

[Shaziro]

I was asking you to explain your reasoning before I made assumptions. Clearly, you don't see fit to do the same, that's fine, it just means you're gonna be wrong more often. I think that any admiration for a dictator dragging his political opponents out and having them shot to death in front of his other potential opponents as a way of showing force is gross. I don't care if you think it's "beautiful" because of the ideas behind it or because he was convinced enough in his ideas to do it, it's still gross, and you're gross for thinking it's anything but gross, at least in my mind. I don't have to know what your reasoning for thinking something are to know that they won't be sufficient to make the thought not-gross.

[Shaziro]

Anyway, probably my last post here for awhile since I doubt you want me in here atm.

The only control Accountant has over the content of this thread is that Accountant can decide it is harassing them and ask for it to be taken down, or report people in the thread for harassment. If you don't harass Accountant, you're fine. I don't think you've stepped over that line, but I'm not a skittle so I couldn't tell you. Accountant has, in the past, openly told people when they overstep and asked them to step back, so I kinda doubt Accountant feels you've overstepped either. Could be wrong.

[Shaziro]

Fair 'nuff.

[Shaziro]

Can you see how your second point there, and you not seeing why I think it's gross, could be a matter of you not understanding me or being able to relate to me, rather than me being wrong?

[Shaziro]

We can't simply not converse because you crave attention and if this thread dies down you wander into other threads and start posting to see whose attention you can get to drag back here.

Literally one of 2 reasons I comment in this thread anymore.

1: Maybe folks who would be vulnerable to Accountant's shit will have some sense knocked into them when they see people actively calling out the grossness
2: It contains the grossness

[Shaziro]

what the hell

was he saying that? or have you tied your life to your ideology so much that stopping belief in it = your death

I am my beliefs. Hence, if my beliefs changed, I have died and been replaced with a clone who doesn't believe in the path. I've said this many times. Every single person trying to get me to change is someone trying to induce me to commit suicide, whether they know it or not, whether they meant to or not.

So you want everyone else in the world to commit suicide.

[Shaziro]

Knowing what goes on in your head doesn't mean you're right. There's plenty of information you aren't aware of, odds are good that lots of it completely invalidates your ideology. That is true for anyone who isn't omniscient.

[Shaziro]

I think it's perfectly possible for other folks to have a better idea of what's going on in your head than you in a sense, but given that I don't think Sesq has the training for that kind of thing, nor has Sesq spent the required metric assload of time with you to build up an understanding of it, no I doubt Sesq does. But for instance, if a kid has ADHD for instance, somebody who knows what ADHD is has a better understanding of what's going on than the kid does in some ways, if said kid doesn't know what ADHD is. I know the point seems pedantic, but given the style of arguing that tends to go on in here I figure it's probably best to clarify that point of view for the sake of any future (God help me) discussions.

Codes of morality are subjective, but if you want to say that nobody can invalidate your code of morality, you have to accept that you can't invalidate anyone else's codes of morality either. If you're willing to accept that, that's great, and that's a part of growing up.

Lastly, look at it the way Descartes did. How do you know you aren't being decieved by some more powerful being that you aren't aware of? You could argue that you have the absolute truth and that doesn't include such a being, but wouldn't such a being purposefully ensure that the trick included lack of knowledge of its existence? You could argue that you can't be tricked, but wouldn't such a being purposefully ensure that the trick included thinking that you could never be tricked?

[Shaziro]

You could argue that you have the absolute truth and that doesn't include such a being, but wouldn't such a being purposefully ensure that the trick included lack of knowledge of its existence? You could argue that you can't be tricked, but wouldn't such a being purposefully ensure that the trick included thinking that you could never be tricked?

[Shaziro]

So you have no proof, only faith.

[Shaziro]

So you have no proof, only faith.

I have the irrefutable proof known as "the ultimate giver of moral truth has said it to me".

Your proof that you are right is that you are right. That isn't proof. That is circular logic. That isn't acceptable as a form of argumentation for fairly obvious reasons. If you aren't interested in using acceptable forms of argumentation, why argue at all? If you're convinced that time will prove you right, then stop talking about your ideology on this forum. Do everyone a favor.

[Shaziro]

Honestly Accountant, I think KK has it right. I think you've backed yourself into a position where you can't possibly accept that you're wrong, because that means facing the fact that the shit you've been spewing is ghoulish at best.

[Shaziro]

Right, say what you want/need to/feel. At this point I wouldn't be able to tell which is which. But, if you ever feel like admitting that your ideas are deeply flawed and unrealistic, and therefore not feasible, I can tell you that I for one won't give you any shit about it, or do an "I told you so", or any of that. But that's about the only way I think I can help you any. So I'm gonna go back to trying to help anyone who might be impressed or interested in the stuff you spew instead. Fair 'nuff?

[Shaziro]

In order:
No
No
I already do.

Offer is still wide open, Accountant. I completely understand why you'd be skeptical of it, but I'd rather be somebody who can help and be an ear to vent to/ talk to than somebody you feel is attacking you.

[Shaziro]

Don't care if you decline or not, it's still open.

[Shaziro]

Admitting that your ideology is wrong would also entail admitting that you don't die if you change your mind, assumedly. I can also promise that if you come to me with anything in private, I won't share it here or anywhere else unless given permission, same as I do for anything.

[Shaziro]

If society will grow to meet your path anyway, you don't need to teach it. Your argument for why you don't need to be convincing is that it's inevitable, your argument for whay you don't need to stop is that you have to convince people. Do you not see the problem there?

[Shaziro]

Have you spoken to a psychiatrist/therapist/whatever -since- you started thinking these things you think?

[Shaziro]

That's after you -started- realizing. I meant after you fully "realized".

[Shaziro]

Did you espouse them to said examiner?

[Shaziro]

You missed thinking that things like openly fantasizing about kill squads hunting down another scummer are disgusting.

[Shaziro]

You missed thinking that things like openly fantasizing about kill squads hunting down another scummer are disgusting.

No more than it is disgusting to fantasize about pulling the lever on the trolley problem and saving 5 lives.

Yeah, it's pretty gross to sit there and go into intricate detail about how excited you are to get to do that too. And in this case you aren't even helping anyone, you're literally fantasizing about a scummer getting killed with machine guns.

Is a disgusting act really disgusting if it ends up helping people?

Yes.

You missed thinking that things like openly fantasizing about kill squads hunting down another scummer are disgusting.

What a twisted and mis-representative interpretation of my post.

What, exactly, is wrong with wanting the scummers in this community - my friends, my associates - to have the burden of evil lifted from them?

"Have the burden of evil lifted from them" apparently entails you calling them rebel scum and having them killed by men with machine guns. That's fucking disgusting. Then again, I've basically come to expect every other statement of yours to be some new horrific fantasy of yours. You're pretty fucking gross.

[Shaziro]

"Have the burden of evil lifted from them" apparently entails you calling them rebel scum and having them killed by men with machine guns. That's fucking disgusting. Then again, I've basically come to expect every other statement of yours to be some new horrific fantasy of yours. You're pretty fucking gross.

No, no. The men with machine guns are just there to escort them to the re-education center. They will die with honors, in a comfortable air-conditioned facility, with the knowledge that their sacrifice is meant to be for the good of the human race, and that because they are re-educated, the world will become a brighter place.

Yeah, no, that's still gross. You also have repeatedly said that literally killing people with guns is fine if they don't get re-educated. Many times. Stop trying to bullshit your way around the facts.

Your ideology is pretty fuckin' bad to begin with
Your ideology is impossible to implement
You can't just ignore that things are impossible and suddenly have them become possible
There -is- something inherently better about a real thing than a fake thing, in that the real thing can affect reality (to which we are all bound)
Your means of trying to do the impossible are horrific and you can't be bothered to even try to find a non horrific way because you don't give a shit
You're probably a bad person.

I'm off to bed, have a good night/day/whatever time it is

[Shaziro]

Ends don't justify the means, ends are impossible, reality does matter no matter how much you don't want it to. Bedtime now bye.

[Shaziro]

So I missed a day's worth of this thread, but like, I get the gist of what's being said I guess?

Here's the thing. Accountant is morally reprehensible, and the fact that they're still around after openly fantasizing about hunting down and killing other scummers is incredibly disappointing, but the fact that Accountant literally can't do anything because of the fact that they haven't ever been able to formulate a way any of the things they say will happen...y'know...-will- happen? That comforts me somewhat.

[Shaziro]

So I missed a day's worth of this thread, but like, I get the gist of what's being said I guess?

Here's the thing. Accountant is morally reprehensible, and the fact that they're still around after openly fantasizing about hunting down and killing other scummers is incredibly disappointing, but the fact that Accountant literally can't do anything because of the fact that they haven't ever been able to formulate a way any of the things they say will happen...y'know...-will- happen? That comforts me somewhat.

Luckily for me, the site rules don't count re-education attempts as death threats. (And hell, if they did, the people telling me to "give up on this delusion and get help" would be banned along with me) The "noooo you're alive as long as your mind and body are there" sword cuts both ways.

Also, I have gone into great detail about the exact reason why those things will happen. To reiterate:

1) people will grow smarter
2) as they get smarter, they are able to see the self evident truths of the world
3) they convert to the correct path
4) they agree with my ideals
5) men with machine guns escort you to the re-education center

Any questions?

Yeah, no, the death threat is in you specifically saying that they would be "squashed". That implies that the machine guns would be used to kill people. You also ignore the whole fact that if it's just forcing people to think like you do (which is also horrific, mind you) then the guns aren't needed. No, you've said many times that you would be happy to literally kill people who don't do what you want. Again, the fact that you're here still is incredibly disappointing.

Let's talk about this process.

1: There's no proof of this
2: There's no proof that what you think is a "self evident truth"
3: There's no proof that what you think are self evident truths will matter to people
4: Again, no proof that this will happen
5: Back to gross and incredibly unlikely.

And, in this whole 5 step progress, you don't explain -how- this will happen. You just say it will. Honestly, I'm pretty sure the reason you haven't been banned for the death threats is because you're incompetent even in your garbage thought experiment.

[Shaziro]

Yeah, you do need proof, you have referred to squashing rebels in other posts, resistance is inevitable because you're pretty damn evil, and the whole "by forcing them to do what I think they should do, I'm really helping them be less awful" argument has been used by every evil dictator to date. Congrats.

[Shaziro]

Accountant is a hypocrite.

P-edit: no, you just opt to ignore contradictions, and then argue that "reality is shifting to your whims" when it so obviously isn't.

[Shaziro]

Some people value human life. It's part of that empathy thing you're apparently missing.

[Shaziro]

Arguing longer doesn't make you more right.

[Shaziro]

Pretty much, Gin. That, and you realize that Accountant starts metastasizing to other threads if you don't keep them entertained here. We're basically just here until Accountant gets banned for death threats to another Scummer.

[Shaziro]

i can feel the crackling of thunder come down as i make my grand debut, but there is no way i'm going through 300 pages of useless shit written by weak kids who hide behind their own words, i'm going to do this in bulk

imagine how moronic you have to be to be the person who made this thread. you are literally so weak and pathetic you felt the need to passive aggressively mock someone like a petty little shit monkey, and you don't even have the balls to face the person you're even trying to shit talk. who the

fuck

would ever want to be friends with you, i can smell how dishonest your ugly ass is from 10 miles away. you completely avoid anything that could put you in a state of reasoning, it's painfully clear to the point where any retard can see the "i haven't gotten better at anything in years" stamped on your forehead


the rest of you are just clowns who are out to prove you're right but don't actually give a fuck about whether or not you are, and my favourite part of this show is how you clumsily pretend like you don't care while praying to god nobody notices. you would be so much more willing to analyze your own components to make sure that they're not wrong if there was any substance to it, and especially willing to wield the ideas of others to see how they work so that you could seek improvement yourself. in other words, you are a fucking waste of time and space and i bet the universe itself regrets hosting you

who the fuck am i? a nobody, because a nobody is enough to make you look stupid

I can't tell who's side you're on, but this post is not an argument. This is just a pathetic series of ad hominem attacks dressed up in grandiose wording. If you're against me, you're nothing more than flimsy opposition who will be crushed by the perfectness of the correct path; immune to such words. If you're for me, I condemn you strongly. Such an attitude will never bring you into utopia or allow you to impose it, thus you should correct your own mistakes before daring to correct others.

My apologies, it wasn't squashed. It was crushed.

[Shaziro]

I have no need to. I will wait until the world realizes how right I am, until people get smarter and smarter and grow a pair of eyes. Then the police and the army would root out the disgusting rebels like you. Try to defend yourself, then, against the unstoppable might of a hundred thousand people with machine guns, their eyes burning with the unquenchable fire of someone who knows for sure that what they are doing is absolutely right.

No use of the word "squashed".


That said, I do not deny that if Mario fights back, he will be killed. He

will

meet his death at the end of a barrel of a gun if he attempts to resist arrest and re-education.

But that is not a death threat.

I do not claim to be the one holding the gun, nor do I claim to want him to be torn apart by a hail of bullets. I am just saying that this is what will, inevitably, happen to those who resist.

It is no different, you see, from saying "if you resist arrest against Duterte's police, you will be gunned down". I am not fantasizing about Mario getting gunned down(I only fantasize about the re-education, which is not covered under site rules). I am simply stating a hard, undeniable fact. If you resist arrest from the utopic police, you will be gunned down. There will be no warning shots. There will be no calls to surrender and put down the knife or you will die. The only thing you will receive, if you resist a utopic police officer, will be a bullet, or if you are lucky/polite, a spray of tear gas or pepper spray.

This is not a death threat, nor is it a fantasy. It is a statement of truth.

This is the "It's not a threat, it's a promise" thing, but it's also still a threat. So, yeah, you've made death threats.

[Shaziro]

I think it's kinda cute that Accountant tries to copy things they've seen other people do. It's like you really want to fit in.

[Shaziro]

If Duterte or Duterte's police are the one saying it, then yes.

[Shaziro]

Arguing longer doesn't make you right.

[Shaziro]

Shaziro you just hurt your own side here

...I'm not on either side?

[Shaziro]

I am not wrong, nor have I stopped arguing.

My righteousness means I am in constant argumentative flux with all those who cannot see the facts so easily.

Blah blah blah take you ego and shove it. I don't know how but apparently losing Titly Fairy power turned you into a idiot.

You uh...you aren't getting it, are ya?

[Shaziro]

How is the conversation over my head? I think you are just trying to make me look stupid so no one listens.

You're doing plenty of that yourself, tbh, but it seems kinda obvious at least to me that Chevre is trolling Accountant while pointing out the flawed argumentation style Accountant uses by just bullheadedly throwing it back. It's not like it hasn't been done before, but it's not some terrible evil thing to do either. S'just a thing that happens every now and again, but Accountant is kinda dug into a hole, so that kind of attempt to make Accountant understand the problem is really best used as a way of showing -other- folks the problem instead. Quoting Accountant's death threats or Accountant claiming to be god/a god honestly should probably get that message across.

[Shaziro]

What the heck Gamma?

Yeah at first I was kinda hoping gamma was just trolling.

[Shaziro]

FA, the problem with that is that whenever you point out that Accountant is definitely and provably wrong, Accountant just claims reality doesn't matter. Like the arguing with Accountant here isn't for the sake of helping accountant understand anymore, it's to keep Accountant contained and away from actually decent parts of the site.

[Shaziro]

Kublai I view you as the worst person here tbh

If I were KK, I wouldn't feel bad that one of the people who comes out of this looking the worst thinks I came out looking the worst tbh.

[Shaziro]

At least go outside and get some fresh air

I don't believe singaporean air is particularly fresh

I mean, smoking is illegal from my last understanding. They're kinda known for their crazy laws. Something like 150 dollars for not flushing public toilets.

[Shaziro]

At least go outside and get some fresh air

I don't believe singaporean air is particularly fresh

I mean, smoking is illegal from my last understanding. They're kinda known for their crazy laws. Something like 150 dollars for not flushing public toilets.

Smoking is legal, there's no nationally enforced or applied fine for flushing public toilets

"Person using sanitary convenience to flush it after using
16. Any person who has urinated or defecated in any sanitary convenience with a flushing system to which the public has access shall flush the sanitary convenience immediately after using it."

http://statutes.agc.gov.sg/aol/search/d ... 0#pr16-he-.

Also, the smoking thing is illegal in "(a)
any premises or building or such part thereof or any class of premises or buildings or such parts thereof —
(i)
being used for commercial, industrial or recreational purposes; or
(ii)
to which members of the public or a section of the public have or ordinarily would have access whether on payment of a fee or otherwise;
(b)
any common property or limited common property of any residential premises or building; or
[47/2004 wef 01/04/2005]
(c)
any public service vehicle or part thereof or any class of public service vehicles or parts thereof,"

http://statutes.agc.gov.sg/aol/search/d ... orce;rec=0

[Shaziro]

Oh, chewing gum importing is also illegal except for under specific circumstances, such as for research purposes, theraputic use, or to then be immediately exported out somewhere else and not sold.

http://statutes.agc.gov.sg/aol/search/d ... 0#pr6A-he-.

[Shaziro]

I realize, I was correcting myself. Oh also, gay sex is illegal.

"Outrages on decency
377A. Any male person who, in public or private, commits, or abets the commission of, or procures or attempts to procure the commission by any male person of, any act of gross indecency with another male person, shall be punished with imprisonment for a term which may extend to 2 years."

[Shaziro]

http://www.businessinsider.com/things-t ... ore-2015-7

Here's a Business Insider article about the weird illegal things. Most of their links don't work, but they're all to that official site where you can probably use the search function to find stuff.

But, would you say that the high amount of legal enforcement and structure in Singapore contributes to your religion?

[Shaziro]

Guess it -was- a threat.

[Shaziro]

y'all should let this thread die for the time Accountant is gone. It has no real purpose to serve for now.

[Shaziro]

What's the point of a record when you sit there and try to change it whenever you want, just because you don't like that people can point out when you lie or are a hypocrite?

[Shaziro]

I have proven it. Many times. You disagreeing doesn't change facts. Get over it.

[Shaziro]

Quoting two posts that consist of you claiming two drastically different things that cannot both be factual as the truth value of one dictates the truth value of the other is, in fact, proof of you being a liar/hypocrite. Davsto really does have you pinned right when he points out that you're all about the gaslighting. I feel bad for anyone it works on, gaslighting is disgusting. As I said elsewhere, please just go away.

[Shaziro]

Except they don't. You just say they do, and then say that because you said they do, they do. Circular logic. You're not above logic just because you choose to ignore it. Again, just go away.

As a side note, it's funny as shit to me that you take me calmly explaining why you're wrong and try to make it seem like I'm throwing a tantrum, when you've thrown -lots- of tantrums in this thread alone, and after you got off your ban you actually -warned- the "Stop Getting Banned" thread that you were going to throw a fit before proceeding to throw a fit.

[Shaziro]

If you realize the only way your ideas will spread is by forcing other people to have them, and that just talking about them does nothing, then kindly stop talking about them and making this site worse. Fuck along.

[Shaziro]

what about reeducation then?

I'm sure a person who you killed can't be reeducated?

Accountant believes that somebody changing their minds means they have died, because accountant believes that you are your ideas, not your actual living body. So it becomes very hard to understand if they mean the traditional form of "killing" or just "making them think what I think".

[Shaziro]

FA. This thread really isn't worth it. Like, Accountant talks big but literally can't do anything like they want to. Yeah, they're a bad person, but Accountant literally thinks that you die if you change your mind, and instead are replaced with some kind of different person. There's no convincing them of anything, but trust me, they aren't going to do anything with it. Plenty of people have recommended that Accountant speak to a professional, Accountant refuses. Psychologists/Psychiatrists can't do anything unless Accountant wants to change anyhow, so it's pointless. My recommendation is to just stop readin' the thread. Alright?

[Shaziro]

I know, you've told me. My recommendation is to just block Accountant with the Foe function, and then just like. Avoid the thread as best you can.

[Shaziro]

Accountant, do me a solid. Stop replying to FA so she can stop replying to you.

[Shaziro]

Accountant, do me a solid. Stop replying to FA so she can stop replying to you.

I want to help FA become a better person.

Accountant, for once just have respect for the fact that somebody else would be in a better place mentally if you left them alone.

[Shaziro]

Accountant, do me a solid. Stop replying to FA so she can stop replying to you.

I want to help FA become a better person.

Accountant, for once just have respect for the fact that somebody else would be in a better place mentally if you left them alone.

Except she's going to be in a better place if I convert her.

Christ's sake just leave her be, she's clearly shown several times that she doesn't want to respond to you, but has pointed out that she has some manner of illness that means she can't make herself not. You continuing to abuse that illness is fucked up.

[Shaziro]

She's pointed out fairly clearly she is mentally compelled to respond to people addressing her. You are abusing that. Fuck off.

[Shaziro]

I should really stop

the thing is I have a sickness that makes ignoring people really hard. I will do my best to avoid her though

She effectively has. Fuck off.