Scummies Ideas, Suggestions and Comments Thread

[Firebringer]

I would argue experienced players are way more petty.

I would argue anyone can be petty

[Firebringer]

All mafia awards are subjective as hell...I don't understand reason for taking them out for being "Subjective" lol.

You guys are hilarious.

[Firebringer]

Best Replacement: Instead of giving out a subjectively judged award for Best Replacement, we felt that replacing should simply be done if someone wants to help out. However, we are happy to announce that the staff will begin giving out "Replacement Hero" pins to users who replace into games and complete X number of games in a calendar year. These "pins" will be small JPG bars that'd go above Scummies banners or below titles in your user profile to show that you've pitched in and helped out a mod in need. The exact number of games needed for this pin is still being determined, but expect more updates on the Replacement Hero pins from zoraster in the near future!

So now it is a little "participating medal? lol.
I don't even want it now.

[Firebringer]

you should nominate us for funniest poster

oh wait

I would nominate you guys for best scummy staff for 2016, but I think that might be subjective...
We should probably take that out.

[Firebringer]

All mafia awards are subjective as hell...I don't understand reason for taking them out for being "Subjective" lol.

You guys are hilarious.

The main issue isn't necessarily the subjectivity, but that the criteria for the award is too subjective.

For example: whether you prefer a flashy scum gambit or a quiet subtle scum game is up to personal opinion, but there are definitive criteria with which you can judge someone's scum play. Did they successfully manipulate town? Did they save their buddies or strategically bus them? Etc. Compare that to something like "funniest player" -- what's funny? What qualifies as comedic or enjoyable to one person is going to WILDLY differ person to person, and it usually results in people kinda half-assing the judging and shrugging it off, or arguing why cursing is or isn't funny/offensive/etc.

I am calling bs.

Heres why:
Theres several things subjective on the manipulation part, did they manipulate due to their role claim in the setup? Did they manipulate because the town were being ridiculously bad? or easily sheeped them? Did they manipulate because of happy coincidences, perhaps clears with actions that shouldn't have cleared them?

Lots of stuff happen in the game. You can have a dumbass town members and you luck out by completely being dominant voice as nobody takes any effort to look through your bs.

So how do these factors go into judgement?
1) Setup
2) Player base
3) Night Actions

Unless every game is same, you have to be subjective and allow much leeway into setup accounting for manipulation. Some setups its easier to manipulate town than others, by design. Player base can't be accounted for that much unless you have same players each and every game, so thats hard to neutralize to be "objective". Night actions can be semi random, if a player has a Innocent on a player they should have a guilty for insance (like a GF), then how does that factor into a game where someone was attempting to manipulate but failed due to a Guilty on them?

[Firebringer]

rabble

rabble

[Firebringer]

Why not split the judges up then?
Make more judges in essence

Judges can judge 1-3 categories but not all.
Splits the workload, possibly gives more eyes on the games in question.

[Firebringer]

You're not wrong. The workload on judges is massive. Another point of this big change is to cut down on the workload.

This sounds like the real reason they were taken out tbh.

[Firebringer]

I have a scummie so I disagree and think they are very important and shows off the best the site can offer,

*looks at scummy*

*sees kodak moment*

LOLZ

[Firebringer]

If being objective was your goal, I am telling you right now:

All these awards are subjective.

Thats a silly reason.

[Firebringer]

No one has claimed objectivity, right?

If you are saying awards are being 'too' subjective, you are going for objectivity when you eliminate them. No?

[Firebringer]

You might wanna read this sentence over a few times

I don't read, if you saw my completed games and asked any player, this is common knowledge.

[Firebringer]

The problem is judge apathy.

We have that problem in games, take myself for example.
Huge problem.

No cure. I understand and rescind my complaints.

[Firebringer]

I encourage you to make a case for as to why the 4 lurkers or one sentence shit posters in your game deserve to relish in the same amount of recognition for the achievements and leadership of a handful to half a dozen solid townspeople. I know cases and examples can be made for games where full cohesion is more or less achieved across the majority of the towns but is there really going to be enough games every year of that caliber to warrant keeping the award around? Probably not.

Leaders need followers.

You can't get a lynch without a majority, even shit posters are needed sometimes to follow the "leader".

Being a leader is overrated, without followers a leader is nothing but someone with a strong personality as someone once told me.

[Firebringer]

not really

Majority is needed for a Lynch.

[Firebringer]

that's very insightful

i would nominate you for professor mafia if that award wasn't taken away

Your argument was broken down with 6 words.
I don't think you had a strong one.

[Firebringer]

yeah

i guess next time i write something, i should make sure i'm aware of how the game of mafia works before i do so

thanks for the criticism. i can tell you're a pretty smart person and i'll take your words into consideration

Thanks man. I think you are smart too.

Much love.

[Firebringer]

In honesty though, Mafia is a Team game.

1 player can't win it all, not even 2-3 "strong' players can win it without support from the 'weaker' players.
Not everyone can be amazing at the game, and sometimes its better to follow your town reads than push your suspects.

So I don't think your right.

[Firebringer]

you're just reinforcing the point i made (and seemingly one of the main reasons the award was removed)

Am I high or something?
Cause this isn't true...

[Firebringer]

tbh the term "teamwork" gets thrown around far too loosely by the people arguing against the removal of the best town award

Well, just like you can't win a football game being the only player on a team. Town can't play together without more than 1 and them working in some relationship in order to accomplish their own win condition, which is aligned with each other.

Unless magically that 1 player has enough votes to cause lynches without any assistance, in that scenario I would consider that game barely even mafia.

[Firebringer]

voting the same player is the most basic thing in the game that i don't even think it qualifies as teamwork, or if it does, then almost every single player displays the same amazing ability every single game, so the entire site deserves a scummy

If we can't agree that voting a player together in unison is teamwork than we disagree fundamentally on this topic.

The game is about persuasion and deception. Players are trying to persuade others they are town and sort out the players who are only pretending to be town. So when you sort someone as town as town it works best if the two of you work together than against each other in some fashion. Mostly through votes.

Second point about every player has this ability. Of course. Teamwork isn't some abstract thing that is hard for people to manage. People work together as a team all the time, with varying results. Its always present in games, it doesn't mean they do it with the most success.

If you need an example of another thing, for instance "Most Cunning Manipulator". Everyone has some level of ability to manipulate people, correct? This isn't some phenomena that is rare in games. Its essentially vital for scum. Does that mean every player manipulates to the same degree or at the same level? No.

Their are better Town teams than others.

[Firebringer]

is persuasion teamwork

Yes.

[Firebringer]

Whats a thing?

[Firebringer]

Scummies aren't intended as a self-improvement metric.

Probably best quote for this thread.

[Firebringer]

I also don't think it's that horrible idea for more transparency, but i see how that's going to cause drama.
Not like the current system prevents drama, just more speculative drama.

[Firebringer]

know of any vets who deserve one?

me, but not rising.
is there something else perhaps?

How about "Falling Star"

[Firebringer]

I have a great idea for the Scummies!

People make more nominations!

Terrible idea

[Firebringer]

As someone who's gone through the site hating them, I can guarantee you the site doesn't hate you.

i like you a lot, just don't send me a pokemon poll....

[Firebringer]

i guess i also dont see why we're giving out scummies for something that should be done as a favor to the community

Isn't everything on this site done as a favor to the community?

Except modding.
That's done as a punishment to those who think they want to help the community