mastina's Mini Normal Review the Third

[mykonian]

I think the main danger here is that you create too many inno's, mastina. You have 3 roles that potentially churn them out, so it's pretty easy to run into a massclaim situation where the game is figured out by PoE mechanically.

[mykonian]

yeah, my issue is all those roles do create hard inno's. All 3 of them. If you give that 1 or 2 nights, it's not outlandish that there are fewer non-inno's left than mislynches and the game gets broken the moment they claim. Like, there's a host of scenarios, even where they overlap, where scum don't get lynched in the first 2 days, where there's a counterclaim, where the start of day 3 town has virtually won, they just need to claim.

[mykonian]

The thing about that though, is that if the mafia fail to kill and/or block the town's roles with them also not eliminating enough of the innocent results...
...Then I'm honestly not sure I see that as a problem? That'd be bad mafia play and they'd be punished accordingly.

Day 3, 9 alive say they killed one of the pr's, that means there are potentially 4 inno's already flying around, on top of the claims which could eat a lynch perhaps. Even then, that's 5 potential lynches left, scum need the only two mislynches left. And that's leaning a couple of things towards scum already. Say there is a correct lynch, and they need to lynch more townies as a result?

This is a problem, there's too many. Even if half scum's shots are on key pr's, they are still not in the clear. And then you have a boring game where scum potentially know they have lost, town doesn't really have to scumhunt anymore, and everybody is waiting for the game to end. It's not a good idea to risk flooding a town with innocent results.

[mykonian]

in the first 2 nights, they have one roleblock, 2 kills. If they kill one of the 3 key pr's, you are still not safe from a game broken by massclaim. If they just block one, still have 5 potential innos in a 13p game. I don't agree with the design that if they don't target all the town in the correct order you can accept that your game will be broken. If there's just one actual correct lynch on scum, you have even more time to create x inno's. You are asking for scum to have a perfect game, or accept that your game could very well suck in the later stages as nobody has to scumhunt anymore.

There's nothing wrong with information roles providing innocents. There is something wrong when it's easy to make half your remaining town innocent.

[mykonian]

Myko? Smith?

I think I've been pretty clear about what I think the glaring issue with this setup is, and I don't think it being intentional makes that alright. I don't think a RB is going to make things alright either, it's teetering too close to the edge and I think that's a poor idea, I don't want to leave it up to how actions go if the game happens to end poorly by design.

But at this point I'm arguing the same point in every post, and I feel I've made it clear. I'm not going to agree with mastin so smith can say his word and we'll see where it goes from there.

[mykonian]

shrug, I can be wrong. I'm happy to go with both others, I feel I've said my part.

/pass