Mini Normal 1919: Endgame

[Empiricus]

'sup folks, this'll be fun!

VOTE: Klazam
Why do you want to fight the taco? I wanted to be the one to fight the taco!

[Empiricus]

Cause it's stupid for it to be weird to you especially since this started in the actual morning.

This is discriminatory towards people in other timezones

[Empiricus]

not really. if somebody is in a time zone that isn't morning right now they could logically deduce that I am in a time zone where it was. If they somehow weren't able to do that, they could ask me what time zone I was in.

my opinion stands, it was stupid for him to find my statement weird so that's one strike against him

I get what you mean, I was just making a small joke to bring a bit of levity and good spirits to any readers of my post.
Also, finding your opening statement weird is slightly weird, I agree.

[Empiricus]

Oh, I would not want to interrupt your dance by voting in there at this early juncture. The day is young (literally in some cases )

[Empiricus]

Oh, I would not want to interrupt your dance by voting in there at this early juncture. The day is young (literally in some cases )

What

I'm just continuing trying to be a bit funny.
Your remark on twofaces first post being weird and deserving a vote is slightly weird in my eyes, but that does not equal it voteworthy from me right now.

[Empiricus]

Oh, I would not want to interrupt your dance by voting in there at this early juncture. The day is young (literally in some cases )

What

I'm just continuing trying to be a bit funny.
Your remark on twofaces first post being weird and deserving a vote is slightly weird in my eyes, but that does not equal it voteworthy from me right now.

Why is it weird?

Why is it not? I can imagine a situation where TwoFace chooses to frame his first post like that easily (like, if usually games begin in evenings in his timezone, morning starts are odd = merits remarking on), therefore finding it weird is weird from my perspective.

[Empiricus]

Same with mine!! Thats why I said I still feel hurt.


You already have havent you? xD kidding, sure? shoot?

I really learned my lesson there.
Lynched Day1 pffft.

I have, but I have more! >=D

I can agree that scum hunting is not primarily alightment-indicative. Though, would you lynch someone who is actively Scum hunting? Why or why Not? What other ways could you effectivly look for scum- red flags, Process of elimination?

Lesson learnt from first game, I would actually lynch someone that is actively scum hunting if my guts say that person is scum.
(I can talk about my previous game, right?) Because if i can I will explain why I will lynch.

Well.... follow your gut is one. Carefully analyze what the game seems to be and who is doing what. Idk how to explain it.

Mrrh, personally I'm uncomfortable with trusting gut feelings. Maybe its because mine are often wrong... I prefer to look at the logic of things.

(You can, as long as its finished)

Ok so, TB and Empiricus was scum, and they been scumhunting. D2, I figured out the scum team but I decided not to go with my gut. Result? Perfect scum win. So yeah, I still won't "scum hunting." I will have to observe how the game is going and played then maybe I can figure out how to bust scums.

Won't happen this time, so you can relax

[Empiricus]

Won't happen this time, so you can relax

Is that a friendly smile or a suspicious smile

Yes

[Empiricus]

Won't happen this time, so you can relax

Is that a friendly smile or a suspicious smile

Yes

..As in both friendly smile and at the same time a teensy bit suspicious of the ol' taco.

[Empiricus]

Won't happen this time, so you can relax

Is that a friendly smile or a suspicious smile

Yes

Why

Just the bit with the good newbie-questions, that I feel was posed by the same taco in the last game. But it might just be that Sergtacos has not been looking over the newbie-stuff on the wiki as much

[Empiricus]

@Sergtacos, do you prefer to ask in game about things that confuse you instead of looking it up on the wiki? Not judging either way, just wondering.

[Empiricus]

@Sergtacos, do you prefer to ask in game about things that confuse you instead of looking it up on the wiki? Not judging either way, just wondering.

Idk really. I haven't looked up the wifi except when I was given the link to OMGUS. I guess its because when a person says something, right there at that moment I can ask what it means because I know I can get an answer quickly. I guess I could go surf the wifi.

Gotcha!

[Empiricus]

But Emp does sorta look scummy to me though. Hm. Because right after Klazam voted me and said to fight him, Emp voted him and said he wanted to fight me, so is he wanting my vote on Klazam too?

Um... is this a joke or an analysis...?

I guess I joke too much xD its an analysis.

Just making sure lmao
I don't see RVS as that significant, though...

True, could be RVS. key word-COULD.

Or it is part of my day one page one superplan to do.. something?
UNVOTE: Klazam

@Sergtacos: I find that you either are honestly energetic with your many posts or trying to seem like it. Constantly referring to how you are as town does not a town make. Currently you give the impression that you are more focused on painting the picture of town!Sergtacos while and pushing a gut feel on your buddy Klazam than do any real scum hunting (not that there is very much to do yet, since the majority of posts belongs to you).

VOTE: Sergtacos

[Empiricus]

I can't not post this, sorry.

Feels jumpy to me

You're jumpy.

[Empiricus]

This game is a total headache. I sense this game has all the jack of trades have trust issues to the max xD

To be fair, Serg, some of the headache probably comes from you having almost the double amount of posts from the 2nd most active poster.
Muddies the thread a little bit when many of those posts are just fillers, even if they are posted with the best of intentions

[Empiricus]

This game is a total headache. I sense this game has all the jack of trades have trust issues to the max xD

Buckle in. It's going to get worse especially if people don't drop this stupid defensive bullshit

Oh god

But really guys: defensiveness can be a strategy. Maybe analysis can be drawn from the people jumping on the defensive person or something?

Yeah, you could either be defensive as a strategy, as a general hallmark of ones style of play, or because scum is overreacting.
Which one it is can't really be proven before lynch though, and since it's only round one maybe we should have an extra dose of doubt in mind until someone is closer to lynch.
I mean, we still have a handful of players that have beneath 5 posts so far in this game.

Jesus fuck two face-to-face you have to fucking scumhunt here, not just defend yourself and say nothing else

You don't get to tell others how to play. Certainly not me especially when I've already caught one scum possibly two and am voting one of them right now.

The moment you said I was scummy for saying somebody else wa scummy you pretty much lost all credibility with me.

Worry about what you're doing and not what I'm doing. I'm a big boy.

Also this rubs me the wrong way, but maybe that's just because I have thin skin or something. You really should leave som room for if you're wrong, because if you are and get a better scum tell later you might want to convince others that you are right. You are not going to do that by alienating folks by writing them off before 24 hours into day one of this game.

[Empiricus]

2face: i just iso'd you. its literally consisting of you attacking people for expressing suspicion of you. 100%. you call people liars for trying to read you- the first one because that person said you overreacted- which you did- then the second because you placed a omgus vote- WHICH YOU DID, IN ESSENCE.

Then your ad hom attacks on me. <sergtaco: ad hom = ad hominem = attacking the person instead of addressing the arugement, which is what he did by insinuating im bad enough at this game and i need to go play newbs>

Oh, while you did that, you also tried to say that i thought you were scummy BECAUSE you called someone scummy? FALSE. I said its the manner in which you did so.

you okay, bud?

Look I'm simple. If people say things that aren't true I'm going to call them out on it. If they say things about me tat aren't true I'm going to do it even harder.

The people that I found suspicious all deserved that suspicion.

Moving on. The people who I called liars ACTUALLY lied. So they deserve to be called liars

Anyone who says I overreacted early on is a straight up liar cause it didn't happen and I've explained that now in detail. I reacted logically to an illogical response.

I didn't place an omgus vote either. I voted a person who did the unforgiving act of lying.

Please if you're going to deal with me. Please get your facts straight.

On to the ad-hom attacks. You said I was suspicious because I called somebody out as suspicious.

I'm sorry if that hurt your feelings or whatever but no player with actual experience should find that suspicious. The point of this game is to find scum and to do that you have to call people scummy.

There was nothing wrong with the manner I did it either but clearly you are entitled to your opinion no matter how wrong it is.

Don't worry about how I'm doing. It's none of your business how I am.

I'll say this. If you are town. Step up your game cause you are weak right now. You are finding things suspicious that aren't suspicious.

Just saying my read of how you play and in regards of your claims on lies and facts:

All of your claims of people lying is that they are lies according to your view. But you can't prove your view, you can't claim that you are not distancing yourself or play defensive when other players can read that into your play.

And that means that your claims that someone is lying is about as reliable as their claims that you are defensive or overreacting.
This is just me stating my take on your stance so far and finding it a bit two dimensional.

[Empiricus]

I think there's a whole lot of negativity here I just want to clear up,

it's not anyone individually, I just got a vibe.

I don't really feel like being

that guy

who says it, but this is just a game. There are scum and there are town, and scum are going to lie, and people are going to die, but at the end of the day it's a game. There are preferable ways to play it and get a point across in conversation without getting worked up about it or insulting people.

I REALLY agree with this! Let's keep this a great game and not treat it like it's dead serious?

[Empiricus]

Who you thinking here, Taco?

Idk right now. We need more people to post. I mean i was just thinking, know what would be funny? if we all townies argue and lynch each other, doing scum's work when some people haven't posted yet and they could be scums. xD

This is what Mafia is all about.
I can almost guarantee you that at least one scum is lurking right now waiting for exactly that.

I'm not opposed to just lynching the least active player unless someone in play is actively scummy. At least in the first round, since that is the round that is both the easiest to float through and the one that leaves the most data to go through after a lynch.

[Empiricus]

@emp. Having trouble just isolating your post so I'll just respond here.

My issue is with regards to the early part of the game. There was just a simple conversation. I made a comment. Mulch made a comment that didn't really make sense to me (and tbh I don't know it made sense to anyone else) and I responded back explaining and so in and so forth.

That by definition is a conversation between 2 people. There was no defensiveness nor overreacting.

If you don't like something somebody does don't just cast shade on it with a lame buzz word like it means something. It makes you sound more intelligent when you actually explain why you don't like something. Like what I did with mulch.

Explaining myself so my thought process isn't being defensive. Anyone who says it is, I don't trust them or their opinions.

People need to stop adding "over" to things also. A person is defensive and/or reactive. There is no such thing as being overly defensive or too defensive or over reacting and neither of those things are alignment indicative.


If you don't like how someone is acting say so and explain why using words. Much like I did when I explained why I didn't like mulch's posts.

I'm not sure on what you are trying to say here in regards to what I've commented. I'm not, as far as I know, trying to throw buzzwords on things to make them mean something or to prove a point. Could you just point out the parts of my posts that you want me to elaborate on and I'll get right on it.

[Empiricus]

Okay, so here's where I am at the moment:
[Shuffleplay, Branson] Strong town
[Trivium, Klazam, Tchill13, Carcalilly] Lean town
[Boonskies, Fykus, Dunkerdoodles, Mulch] Null/lacks reading material
[TwoFace] Lean scum
[Sergtacos] Strong scum

I'm not going to really explain my reads right now though, at least not my reads above null.

TwoFace leans scum because while I imagine his style of play differs a lot from mine, the way he is calling some of the people suspecting him as scum for liars on things that are based on opinion feels off from a town perspective. It makes me think that he wants to build up conflicts to seem busy.

Sergtacos feels like strong scum for a few reasons. Firstly, I think he overplays the newbie-card since he's already finished a game here on site where he was town, and his game does not really read the same as then. Besides, he has several times referenced his previous times playing mafia both as town and scum, so I am a bit curious about how many games hes's really played.
Secondly, his posts are way too many but almost none of them actually does anything for the game. I find either jokeposts, his Klazam-beef which really just is some sort of reference to their IRL-thing, or loose reflections or thoughts. Where is the actual scum hunting? Then there is this post:

What actions indicate they're scum to me?

Carcalilly- Trying too hard to be town and decided to target me after I went after for Klazam.

Klazam- For some reason I still refuse to believe he is town because if he was he would easily see that I'm town. But thinking if he's scum, he wouldn't say he sees me as town so that I have a chance of getting lynched in some time in the future. Secondly, Carcalilly voted me right after I seriously voted for Klazam. Seems odd.

Empiricus- Voted me after I seriously voted on Klazam. Got me thinking, ok if Klazam is scum, was Empiricus bussing at first in RVS then decided to vote on me since I voted on Klazam?

So is this the scum team? Idk.

TwoFace- Defended like crazy over a RVS? Still trying to be defensive.

No reads on others so far.

I'm not saying the people who I mentioned are scums, but I'm just saying if they are, this is why.

Really zooms me in on the fact that Sergtacos game is more focused on showing up how he plays town and builds almost all his casework on that Klazam fails to recognize that and therefore must be scum in the eyes of the taco. For me it looks like Sergtacos is scum trying to emulate his towngame and is overacting.

[Empiricus]

I got 153 posts, yall need to step up. Get on to my level.

You need to lower your "level" a bit, if you continue to post at this rate it will be a pain going back and re-reading further into the game and really only helps scum cover themselves.

[Empiricus]

I got 153 posts, yall need to step up. Get on to my level.

You need to lower your "level" a bit, if you continue to post at this rate it will be a pain going back and re-reading further into the game and really only helps scum cover themselves.

To be fair though, it really is a pain going back and re-reading

[Empiricus]

UNVOTE: Sergtacos
So, I'll unvote for the moment, to take a moment to leave the game for a few hours and then reread it with fresh eyes.

My read on Sergtacos is still that he's trying a lot more than in my last game to seem like he's randomtown and I still feel that he is less town than last game

, but since we have a lot of days left I'm going to unvote, sleep on it and then come back tomorrow with a new and fresh mind to try and read him again.

[Empiricus]

Empiricus or twoface what do you think of mulch? Seems like he's lurking. Then again fykus seems like he's lurking too. Fykus also jumped on that mulch vote pretty fast.

Not sure if I'm the one to make this judgement, since my activity is itself in the lower tier here in this game. But:
From my view, reading the mulch ISO gives me the impression that he's somewhat active, but a lot of the activity is just one word replies or single sentences. Reading the thread enhances the feel that there is a bit of a disconnect between what mulch writes and what's happening in the thread.
That combined with the fact that he every day says that he will read the thread but so far has not gives me the impressions that the posts that he does make have less weight. So lurking = no, but I look forward to the post that should be coming in about ~13 hours.



I'm curious to see something more substantial from Klazam, because there is very little substance there besides the claim that taco is town.

Also, I'd like (if possible) us to try and do a coordinated push and post reads lists in some semblance of order.
I'd prefer if people post reads lists in an order to make the people who are scummiest posts first. Since that is subjective, my suggestion is that Branson or Trivium (or both) post a list in what order they would like to see people post reads lists (these two because they from my last reads list are leaning town quite a lot and since shuffleplay has asked to replace out).

[Empiricus]

I guess I picked just the right time to be away from home for a day, thus missing about 600 posts/25 pages. Timing! Marvelous!

I as well think that Tchill13 is scum:

Boonskies has a good point in 1026, about Tchills double-stance on the lynching of inactives.
In post 1066 and post 1122, Tchill attacks Boon for “trying to take the credit” from Vedith (reading their posts on the interaction gives me a rather friendly feel that does not indicate rivalry about the credit), which to me is weird since that feels like Tchill tries to separate prestige for a case from the validity of the case to appeal to emotion rather than to facts.

Tchills post 1110 has a Freudian slip-feel to it, together with the other interactions with Mulch. It feels like scum that has been entangled by posting a bit too fast and loose trying to avoid having one of them lynched.


VOTE: Tchill13

Regarding my willingness to lynch inactives, it comes from my home forum where we usually have 48 or 72 hour days, and where being inactive is a greater sin than here. Also the operative word in my post 360 is "unless"

[Empiricus]

THIS PUTS HIM AT L-1. PLEASE, DO NOT HAMMER UNTIL HE'S HAD A FINAL WORD. ALSO, PLEASE, IF YOU HAVE AN INTENT TO HAMMER, SAY SO.

Mulch switched vote to Trivium in 1356, so it's L-2.

[Empiricus]

Depends on what you think I fucked up.
Sorry if I botched some kind of sneaky plan of yours to catch scum with that big bold note, not sorry if you are upset because I called you out on miscounting.

[Empiricus]

Really? If so, that's no good. I don't really have time to really go back and count to see if you are correct or not.

[Empiricus]

Just a quick post to show that I still exist, besides being less vocal than others, and what I'm thinking on right now. I'll be on a train part of the day tomorrow so I'll have more time to read and write then, until then I'll be busy.

Mulch can't not be town. Either Boon is telling the truth and has investigated Mulch, or Boon lies (only reason to lie is if Boon is scum) and then Mulch is town because Boon is the last scum.

Carcalillys death being unexpected makes me think that there probably will be something to be found in looking at why Vedith died (besides being very town).
Since daychat is enabled according to the rules, there is probably something in day one that the scum team tries to build for in preparation of day two, so I reason that the interactions between Tchill13 and Carcalilly and the posts made by them probably have some element of a coordinated source.
That, combined with us knowing the alignment of Mulch and Vedith, is what I'm trying to read from.

Looking at the vote counts, Trivium feels off with the single vote on Mulch during all of the late game. Regarding contact/distance: Carcalilly keeps Trivium in their townreads and Tchill13 barely touches him. I'll revisit this more in depth in tomorrow.
But.
VOTE: Trivium

[Empiricus]

So, does anyone have any HESITATIONS for quicklynching Empiricus rn?

Well, I do for one, but you'd probably be able to figure that out without both hands and a map.

I'd very much prefer to lynch Dunkerdoodles, looking at their ISO in light of Carc and Tchill being scum and trivium, mulch, tacos and boon (probably in boons case) being town shows that dunker has been placing the known scum as either townreads or null. I'd really like to hear dunkerdoodles bring out their reasonings behind this following underlined part:

Hey im all caught up, had to take in my computer for repair so I've been stuck on my phone for a couple days. I should get it back sometime today. Anyways I'm keeping my vote on tacos because I still feel he is scum. I also am scum leaning two face and mulch, mainly gut

but also a few other reasons I can share later.

I am town reading trivium tchill and carc because I like their posts.

Pedit: here's my reads so I hope that helps.

VOTE: Dunkerdoodles

[Empiricus]

Also, Mulch, chill a bit with the triggerhappy hammerthumb, do you have anything to win by hammering fast and loose?

[Empiricus]

Solid finding, tbh. I wouldn't be surprised if Doodles is scum, but I think we could still go Emp first. Because it does look like it could just be Emp taking advantage of that post. who knows?

How about putting the lynch after Doodly has answered and expanded upon the reasoning hinted on in that post? Then you can lynch whoever feels the most scum with those cards on the table.

[Empiricus]

Boon, a fast ctrl + f in Tchills ISO brings up a few more, FYI

Spoiler:

Taco's I don't see how you can scum read mulch at this point. I don't agree with the scum read on empiricus either. The two-face scum read is a little obvious... I don't think shuffle is trying to take advantage of you're scum read list.

Empiricus or twoface what do you think of mulch? Seems like he's lurking. Then again fykus seems like he's lurking too. Fykus also jumped on that mulch vote pretty fast.

So you feel that mine and empiricus isos are similar? I'll have to go reread his to see exactly what you're meaning. I feel the same about mulch but I don't like scum reading someone for inactivity. It's just not too helpful to town.

This is why Carcalilly is scum. She also posts a lot of fluff.

Fluff doesn't mean scum.

So why are you not voting scum?
Instead you are diverting to another person with no votes on them.

You can see why I'm calling you scum, right?

Yeah I get what you're saying. I think empiricus has flown under the radar not much has been said about him unless I missed something. Empiricus, Fykus and boonskies are the three that haven't been talked about too much. Seems like the game stalled for a bit and I wanted to get reads on other players before we got closer to the night phase. It's probably gonna be another super long day 1 so I guess I'll try to use my time.

Who you thinking here, Taco?

Idk right now. We need more people to post. I mean i was just thinking, know what would be funny? if we all townies argue and lynch each other, doing scum's work when some people haven't posted yet and they could be scums. xD

This is what Mafia is all about.
I can almost guarantee you that at least one scum is lurking right now waiting for exactly that.

I'm not opposed to just lynching the least active player unless someone in play is actively scummy. At least in the first round, since that is the round that is both the easiest to float through and the one that leaves the most data to go through after a lynch.

you quoted this, Tchill, and now you're on Fykus, who I feel fits the bill on that the most, yet you were voting Emp.

See vedith. Now I'm confident boon is town. As far as vedith's reaction on my empiricus vote goes I vote empiricus, Vedith immediately tells me to vote boon or fykus. That pinged me. Then after I vote fykus vedith states that empiricus is an easy vote because he's useless at this point. Now I'm not in favor of lynching a useless townie they're still townie. Scum is in favor of bringing a useless townie to LyLo though.

Regarding Tchills interactions with Doodles, they are quite nondescript as well, although these posts stick out a bit:

I'd love to know why you're gut is telling you doodles is a better lynch than me?

Also, he was already at L-1. He should be saying his "Last Words" right now, and he's waiting until L-1 again. This wagon doesn't need to be stalled anymore.

What is this supposed to look like? Mulch was trying like hell to get doodles going and I voted mulch because of it knowing he would vote me. I tried not to push cases for the sake of deflection just cases I already pushed. So Idk what to tell you. If I'm scum I don't call out someone for something scummy then do exactly that.

[Empiricus]

@Emp - I was referring to mainly around the time of the naked vote.

Ah, I did not read it like that. But then I understand how you meant.

Do take notice, however, of how many times Tchill groups the same people (me, mulch, fykus, twoface) in his posts that I quoted.

[Empiricus]

U is scum bud

You talkin' to me, bud? Are you taking kickbacks from the mafia or something?

[Empiricus]

I actually think Carca's chainsaw defense of you is more incriminating than anything Tchill has stated. Plus, you were already a big gut read of mine.

Can't really change how you feel about that (and I don't really care to try). I can say that you are wrong, but that won't really matter since the validity of my words would be questionable at best in your eyes.
Let's see what doodles will contribute, and then I'll take the fallout for whatever happens after that.

[Empiricus]

Well then..
UNVOTE: Dunkerdoodles

So this is where we're at then:
02. Klazam
04. Boonskiies - Odd-night cop
05. TwoFace
06. Empiricus - Vanilla
07. Mulch - Conftown
10. Fykus - 3-shot vanilla cop
11. Branson
13. Dunkerdoodles - Gunsmith

[Empiricus]

Honestly, I think we should lynch Branson, and have us all target 2F. That way, at least 2 people will be alive and had targeted 2F. This makes it so if one of the PR's are fake claiming, they can't manipulate the game to their liking, and can confirm 2F's alignment.

I think it's as sound a plan as can be gotten, with the current situation.

VOTE: Branson

[Empiricus]

TwoFace you are scum afterall arent you?

[Insert vote for TwoFace here]

[Empiricus]

VOTE: TwoFace

This is the time to wait for the PRs before voting. Trying to influence the popular opinion before that has happened is scummy.

[Empiricus]

STOP BEING STUBBORN plz and unvote

I can unvote, at least, since I'm not in a hurry here
UNVOTE: TwoFace

TwoFace - I'd prefer to hear the results

as well as the votes

from the claimed PRs now before any more votes are cast.

[Empiricus]

Why does it matter? One vote isn't going to lynch him. Once both post depending what they say, I'll change my vote but odds are it's one of them.

This ain't really for you since you've already taken a stance, but right now I'd prefer if the PRs took charge with votes without having info on how the rest of the players are voting.

[Empiricus]

Why does it matter? One vote isn't going to lynch him. Once both post depending what they say, I'll change my vote but odds are it's one of them.

This ain't really for you since you've already taken a stance, but right now I'd prefer if the PRs took charge with votes without having info on how the rest of the players are voting.

Regardless what they say or do, I'm voting who I want.

I get that. I don't agree with that thought since I subscribe to the policy that having PRs act before the rest is beneficial since PRs claiming before non-PRs can't adapt to non-PR bias and thus can't lie as effectively.

[Empiricus]

Anyhow, Boonskiies, time to drop your load and spill them beans. Fykus as well.

[Empiricus]

They were both supposed to investigate me. That was the plan. How is me voting going to change anything? One of them is going to have to lie here regardless of what I do cause I'm town.

What's your point?
If one of them calls you scum/not vanilla then you die and that person next day if you're not scum.
If both call you scum/not vanilla we win.
If none of them calls you scum/not vanilla then you're probably town.

In my opinion, you taking charge and trying to discredit boon/building to push an opinion before the claims is very scummy.

[Empiricus]

Voting me for playing the game is worse than me voting the person I think is probably scum. So go look in the mirror and chew on that.

You DO know that I'm not currently voting for you, right?

Anyhow, you voting Boon after last night must have some kind of reason.
Why do you think that Boonskiies is the remaining scum? And do you have anything to back that claim?

[Empiricus]

You were though and that's f'ing despicable.

Not touching that.

Anyhow, you voting Boon after last night must have some kind of reason.
Why do you think that Boonskiies is the remaining scum? And do you have anything to back that claim?

[Empiricus]

I already explained my reason for voting boon before you asked the first time. Why would you ask it a 2nd?

The only reason I can find when reading your ISO is that Boon was the first claim and did not die. I'd like to see you revisit that with all the facts we have now and do a proper read. There are several PRs right now and I'm perfectly comfortable with lynching any one of them if need be, but I want to see them step up and declare their results before the rest of us do anything significant.

You can call me "f'ing despicable" all you want, and maybe that'll make you happy. But right now you are scummy to me from the feeling that you are really pushing Boon before any claim/power-use without anything but emotional reads.

[Empiricus]

Do you HAVE to have all the drama and conflict when it's night here in Sweden? I had the pleasure of waking up to a locked thread.

I think we should wait for empiricus, to see if he confirms with fykus that he is vanilla, now that fykus isn't confirmed town

Yeah, I'm just plain VT. No magical bells or whistles.

The results of Boons way of handling the drama last night gives me the quite clear impression that causing chaos and confusion was his goal. Which is anti-town.

VOTE: Boon

PEDIT:
VOTE: Umlaut
Sorry for welcoming you with a vote, Umlaut.

[Empiricus]

What other roles do we know right now?

02. Klazam - ?
04. Boonskiies/Umlaut - Odd-night cop
05. TwoFace - Vanilla
06. Empiricus - Vanilla
07. Mulch - Conftown
10. Fykus - 3-shot vanilla cop

One Mafia Goon and one Mafia odd-night roleblocker have already been lynched.

What is your opinion on the games balance so far? Do we lynch Klazam, being the only one left to not have been in some way investigated, or is it reasonable that the last mafia is a goon?

[Empiricus]

Fykus could be the scum as well -_-

Well, we have no way to confirm that mechanically. Do you think that Fykus has been acting scummy in a way to support it or do you just state it since we can't know if Fykus claim is true?

Me or TwoFace could be scum if the last scum is a goon, but then Fykus claim to be a vanilla-cop must be true and then the balance of the game is a valid thing to discuss. Does the game balance support two goons and an odd-night roleblocker on the mafia side with this setup of town roles?

Klazam could be scum, by luck and being the only one not to have been investigated of all the claims are true and the last scum is not a goon.

And of course Boon/Umlaut could be lying about the odd-night cop.

[Empiricus]

What other roles do we know right now?

02. Klazam - ?
04. Boonskiies/Umlaut - Odd-night cop
05. TwoFace - Vanilla
06. Empiricus - Vanilla
07. Mulch - Conftown
10. Fykus - 3-shot vanilla cop

One Mafia Goon and one Mafia odd-night roleblocker have already been lynched.

What is your opinion on the games balance so far? Do we lynch Klazam, being the only one left to not have been in some way investigated, or is it reasonable that the last mafia is a goon?

Town PRs that have been lynched is one gunsmith and one vigilante, but I'm guessing you've already seen in the games first post.

[Empiricus]

I can't even begin to keep up with the speed in which you guys post. Damn!
But, to me, the only possibles now are Klazam or Fykus (of course).

If we vote No Lynch, then Mulch almost certainly will be nightkilled. That won't give any more info about who to lynch next.
I'll have to do a comprehensive reread on both Klazam and Fykus, because right now I have nothing but gut feel to act on.

[Empiricus]

I'm not out to quickhammer anyone, I'll try to get some semblance of feeling for the two suspects first.

[Empiricus]

EMPIRICUS- either hammer for the win or respond to me right now

If you'd stop posting for half a second so I could post without getting all the "posted while you were writing"-posts, I'd respond to you

[Empiricus]

Anyhow, I will take my time to read some now before doing any voting. It might take hours, as it currently is 23.49 here in Sweden and I'd like to get some sleep as well.

[Empiricus]

This game is one heck of a mess to read through to find useful reads. From what I'm finding so far I'm leaning Klazam as scum, but there are posts from Fykus as well that feel scummy. But I think that more posts from Klazam in the early game have double purposes (like 1440 and 1457 towards Sergtacos feel like trying to steer the taco based on their familiarity). Fykus is harder to read with less posts compared to Klazam.

So..
VOTE: Klazam

[Empiricus]

Empiricus what do you think of Fykus's akawardness today.

Also, I totally feel how you think Klazam might be manipulative, but do you really think the scum woudl leave Klazam as their top town?

I don't see enough in it to warrant a scumread. I'd prefer to see Fykus do some more reasoning about Klazam, you, me and the game though. But Fykus early post 1092 felt good to me with regards to Klazam. Klazam later responded to it in 1128.

And regarding both scum placing Klazam as their top town: I don't think they planned on losing two on their team the same night, so I can't guess how they planned to work on with what they did day one.

Mulch, could you kindly elaborate for me what you mean with your rule of three?

[Empiricus]

What I'd really like right now is for Fykus to come in and present a case on why he thinks that Klazam is scum based on his own reasoning from the game. I want to be clear that I'm not really townreading Fykus either at the moment and if I don't see some solid reasoning from him he'll sink to prime scum in my eyes.

@Empiricus

First, look at the setup. Does it make sense for us to have THREE investigatives?

The second thing:

Tchill KNEW he was going to die. Why would he put Klazam as his top town?

Both of the scum put Fykus in their "null scumreads" with 2 town. The rule of three is that if scum say X, Y, Z is scum or villager, there is at least one scum in there

The dispersion of the investigative powers do give some overlap that muddles things for them, in that the gunsmith can find roles with guns (one/two cops in town + two or three mafia depending on mafia doctor), the vanilla-cop can find vanillas (most of town + goon/goons), and only the odd-night cop can actually have reliable results.
Balance-wise I'm unsure, but it could work which means that the game setup in itself is not really factoring in to how I think.

Tchills acting at the moment near his lynch could be a way to create distance between Carcalilly and Klazam, since Carcalilly also had that early bad Klazam case which could have been a way to separate them from each other early.


I'm not really sold on the rule of three, but I'm prepared to change my vote to Fykus depending on what Fykus next move is.

[Empiricus]

So I just did a quick ISO, and Klazam

is

scumhunting/sorting. The fykus case is incredibly flawed on its main point, and mulch just aimlessly sheeped it.

Spoiler:

exactly. you know i can read you as town or not. but youre making a big ass deal out of it and taking it too seriously right now.

Are you there? If so, respond to this question in the next 5-10 mins. if you miss that time slot ill ignore the answer you come up with.

Why are you scum?

okay yeah. VOTE: Sergtacos Youre being OVERLY aware of your selfmeta and manipulating your play to fit within that meta. Die. Im sorry bro, i didnt want to hang you on D1 but there it is.

The thing here, is that your reactions is EXACTLY what i expected you to say. Exact. so that reads to me youre thinking about what im expecting to see and giving me that, which is scummy as fuck.

WHOA WAIT- You want your vote to stay on me, then try to say "TvT" in the same post. explain.

its not that you called him scummy, its the manner in which you did.

VOTE: two-face

I'm just extremely disappointed that you didn't go "oh I see your point, that could be true", that'd have conftowned you to me. You're too careful.

Still a null to me

Mulch- 6 pages of nothing that important then a couple pages of me and sergtacos.

Being too defensive

He's focused on defending instead of going with it and pushing others.

Taco, I could care less about your read of me, I'm just trying to figure out your alignment, and you're not doing things right

I've told you, defensiveness by itself is okay but you're only doing that without scumhunting. Focused on self= scumny

2face: i just iso'd you. its literally consisting of you attacking people for expressing suspicion of you. 100%. you call people liars for trying to read you- the first one because that person said you overreacted- which you did- then the second because you placed a omgus vote- WHICH YOU DID, IN ESSENCE.

Then your ad hom attacks on me. <sergtaco: ad hom = ad hominem = attacking the person instead of addressing the arugement, which is what he did by insinuating im bad enough at this game and i need to go play newbs>

Oh, while you did that, you also tried to say that i thought you were scummy BECAUSE you called someone scummy? FALSE. I said its the manner in which you did so.

you okay, bud?

also emp, this is a response from boon about fykus's 1092 regarding me.

Well, that seems to me that Fykus case in 1092 was primarily surface then.

[Empiricus]

What I'd really like right now is for Fykus to come in and present a case on why he thinks that Klazam is scum based on his own reasoning from the game. I want to be clear that I'm not really townreading Fykus either at the moment and if I don't see some solid reasoning from him he'll sink to prime scum in my eyes.

problematically, fykus's reaction to this will be NAI.

think about what i said earlier regarding me not making a fykus case because of confbias, and realize it applies to fykus here also.

Well, I'm interested in how he reasons, not exactly why he thinks that you are the scum. Fykus posts are short and don't really show how he thinks and reasons about things, I'd like to have some kind of insight in how he thinks to weigh against his earlier posts.

[Empiricus]

But why would a doomed goon associate themselves with klazam like that

This is one of the things that could be wrapped in layer upon layer of WIFOM, in my opinion.

[Empiricus]

On the other hand, both Klazam and Fykus have scummy things in their posts, and I don't really wish to drag this out any more than it already has since my brain has started melting again thinking about this game.

VOTE: Fykus

I hope this was not a bad choice

[Empiricus]

Well, I sure am glad that I changed my vote

Thanks for a fun game guys! And TB!