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KittyMo
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Post Post #425  (ISO)  » Mon Jun 05, 2017 1:04 pm

In post 424, Vaxkiller wrote:


I tried following your instructions, but itsays I dont have a page and do not have permission to create one?

I'm just looking for a place to dump links to my games so ppl can meta me.

Just login (same way you do on the forum) on the wiki and you'll have permission.
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Post Post #426  (ISO)  » Thu Jun 08, 2017 8:07 am

Thank you! I finally updated my games! Wow im bad!
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Games played.

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Post Post #427  (ISO)  » Fri Jun 16, 2017 6:21 am

Finally got round to finishing the Setup's section. It should now be easier to find whatever you're looking for, and it generally looks better.

I intend to sort everything in a similar manner. Finally tackling the issue of weird categorisation over the years.
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Post Post #428  (ISO)  » Mon Jul 24, 2017 6:37 pm

"Queue" page, micros probably shouldn't be listed as explicitly under the normal games tab. The vast majority of them are just tiny themes.
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Post Post #429  (ISO)  » Tue Jul 25, 2017 12:34 pm

Micro Normal and Micro Theme are conceptually two separate queues, but they use the same thread (basically because it's common for there to be no Micro Normal games offered at any given moment).
scum · scam · seam · team · term · tern · torn · town

RadiantCowbells
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Post Post #430  (ISO)  » Wed Aug 02, 2017 3:55 am

How do I update setup histories?

Nvm figured it out.
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Post Post #431  (ISO)  » Fri Mar 16, 2018 4:25 am

:lol:

Someone went into the Open Database and added solely my Open 711 without updating the past 30 or so games :P

Finished updating that.

Does anything need doing?

My concern from the open standpoint is that categories like "Mini Setups" and "Mini Open Setups" aren't exactly distinct from one another. Took me a while to figure out that "Mini Open Setups" specifically means "setups approved by the open listmod". The category pages also don't link to each other.

Edit: Yeah a quick glance shows that the categories are out of date, and a lot of the setup pages haven't been standardised. "Making Friends And Enemies" is still listed as Untested, while a lot of actually Untested setups aren't tagged.
Might get to that.

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Post Post #432  (ISO)  » Wed Mar 21, 2018 11:58 am

SR=Scum Read
TR=Town Read

These should be added to the abbreviations page.
"...(I also think that meta-diving LQ proves that he's a "non-traditional" player (whatever that means) more than his words do)." ~Nachomamma8

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Post Post #433  (ISO)  » Mon Mar 26, 2018 5:24 am

I've heard a bunch of complaints about the Abbreviations page not including current site lingo. At this point, the MU wiki is doing better than us in that regard. A lot of these pages are straight up newbie-unfriendly, and I believe this is contributing to low newbie retention rate. The wiki was up to date when I joined, and the idea that this site was the hub of mafia theory was a huge draw.

I added SR, TR, NAI, and AI. I removed slang that appears in the linked Internet Slang webpage.

More controversially, I'm removing:
HoS: I see FoS occasionally, but HoS has phased out almost completely I think.
IME: In My Experience, no one seems to abbreviate this simple phrase.
IoA: IIoA is still going strong, but anyone accusing someone of Information Over Analysis just says IIoA.
MB: People just say multiball, which is a confusing enough word.
MFoS: Middle Finger of Suspicion? No.
POV: A common English abbreviation. I replaced with FMPOV, which I see a lot.
RTFT: Read The Fucking Thread? Noooope.

Questionable abbreviations that I'm leaving up just in case:
BWCS: Best Worst Case Scenario, basically a buzzword for "lynch VT claims". I did a search and basically only one user uses this.
IGMEOY: I've Got My Eye On You, something that is sort of Internet slang, but still almost no one uses.
ITT: This is general forum/Reddit lingo.
Sus: I'm guessing this is mostly present for non-native English speakers.

BaM: Bad At Mafia? This was a ruleset once? What?
C9, F11: Clearly out of date.

And 90% of the users in the Username Abbreviations section are years removed from the site. I can understand including, for example, RC (especially because of easy confusion), but it looks like PookieTheMagicalBear is over a decade gone?

Anyway yeah the wiki really needs to be more newbie friendly. I'm considering taking a machete to a few of the Gambits and Tells pages given how out of date they are. I've seen Slayer's Gambit namedropped too many times by newbies who've clearly done the work of reading the wiki, but haven't been told how incredibly out of date it is.

Maybe an Outdated category?

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Post Post #434  (ISO)  » Mon Mar 26, 2018 4:08 pm

It would be a good idea to update the wiki to the current meta and move anything antiquated to a 'legacy' page or section. It's fine to have a complete page on abbreviations as a reference, but there should be a definitive newbie version that is concise and gives them what they need to know to not be lost in the game by page 2.

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Post Post #435  (ISO)  » Mon Mar 26, 2018 6:49 pm

The problem is that the organisation of the wiki as it currently is, doesn't really lend itself to creating an entire "legacy" section.

a rough organisation of the wiki:

  • Setups: This is mostly up to date thanks to wgeurts, but there are some things 2 or 3 years out of date, and setups need recategorising.
  • Roles: Roughly up to date, just needs to incorporate common roles in the modern newbies/normals (Neapolitan).
  • Modding: This won't really ever go out of date, although it could use some wiki'd Alisae and Varsoon articles with their permission.
  • Theory: The elephant in the room. If everything were in the same place, we could easily move all of it to a legacy section.
    But as it is, it's split up into:
    • The Theory category itself: Clearly more centred around setup, calculations, mechanics, etc than around play. The articles need removal but a bunch of concepts are timeless.
    • Articles: Dear god does this need to be looked at. This is split into Play Articles and Modding Articles but they're ALL dumped into the main section. Fortunately, many of these are timeless, but a select few just don't need to be here anymore.
    • Common Tells: Questionable section. The most recent article was written 3 years ago. Not terrible (IIoA will always be a scumtell) but still needs work to stay on top of site meta.
    • Gambits: Dear god. A bunch of these only apply to specific setup situations or claiming strategies. I've barely seen any of these gambits actually in action.
    • Logical Fallacies: Good section, fallacies are timeless.

I'm going to start by creating an "Outdated" section and using my best judgment as to what to move there. Won't delete anything just in case.

Then I'm gonna start lifting recent MD threads into appropriate places just to show off that the wiki does in fact have current articles.

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Post Post #436  (ISO)  » Mon Mar 26, 2018 6:55 pm

I don't agree with taking abbreviations off the wiki?
"...(I also think that meta-diving LQ proves that he's a "non-traditional" player (whatever that means) more than his words do)." ~Nachomamma8

Wiki analyzed practically from scratch for consistency and accuracy 05/19/2018
Not modding any games currently.

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Post Post #437  (ISO)  » Mon Mar 26, 2018 7:01 pm

I did a search for the abbreviations I was removing just in case. If you can google or Wiktionary an abbreviation, it probably doesn't belong on the Mafia Wiki.

The most basic argument I have is that abbreviations are to facilitate communication, and making the page unnecessarily long and filled with abbreviations that people don't actually use, hampers that.

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Post Post #438  (ISO)  » Mon Mar 26, 2018 7:03 pm

In post 437, Mathdino wrote:I did a search for the abbreviations I was removing just in case. If you can google or Wiktionary an abbreviation, it probably doesn't belong on the Mafia Wiki.

The most basic argument I have is that abbreviations are to facilitate communication, and making the page unnecessarily long and filled with abbreviations that people don't actually use, hampers that.


You are assuming that the present state of abbreviations doesn't change/revert.
"...(I also think that meta-diving LQ proves that he's a "non-traditional" player (whatever that means) more than his words do)." ~Nachomamma8

Wiki analyzed practically from scratch for consistency and accuracy 05/19/2018
Not modding any games currently.

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Post Post #439  (ISO)  » Mon Mar 26, 2018 7:04 pm

Dude feel free to put up some of my stuff on the wiki if you want.
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Post Post #440  (ISO)  » Mon Mar 26, 2018 7:34 pm

Found the issue.

I altered the Articles Template to not automatically include articles under Category:Articles, and instead to only place articles in their respective subcategories. This could easily be changed back if the consensus disagrees, but I think this style of organisation is more in line with Wikipedia guidelines and reduces general wiki clutter.

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Post Post #441  (ISO)  » Mon Mar 26, 2018 10:47 pm

In post 433, Mathdino wrote:More controversially, I'm removing:
HoS: I see FoS occasionally, but HoS has phased out almost completely I think.
IME: In My Experience, no one seems to abbreviate this simple phrase.
MFoS: Middle Finger of Suspicion? No.
RTFT: Read The Fucking Thread? Noooope.
Um.
What.

Those are all.

Common mafiascum things.

In post 433, Mathdino wrote:Maybe an Outdated category?
I wouldn't recommend that, per se, but I would recommend Publish Dates, Last Revised dates (just adding Publish Dates/categories not counting as a revision; a revision in this case is CONTENT changed), and greater use of an existing category I'll track down in a sec, more or less one which is "site history". (Yes there is a category for that, believe it or not. I don't remember it's name, but it basically is "this is for things which are significant for their past value to the site but which are not as pertinent now", more or less.)
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Post Post #442  (ISO)  » Mon Mar 26, 2018 11:01 pm

Well, to give ya'll a sneak preview...we've been discussing the mafiawiki backstage for a while, and we will soon ask for volunteers to overhaul specific parts of the wiki.

You didn't hear it from me though.
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Post Post #443  (ISO)  » Mon Mar 26, 2018 11:07 pm

In post 441, mastina wrote:Um.
What.

Those are all.

Common mafiascum things.
Not today.
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Post Post #444  (ISO)  » Mon Mar 26, 2018 11:11 pm

In post 441, mastina wrote:
In post 433, Mathdino wrote:More controversially, I'm removing:
HoS: I see FoS occasionally, but HoS has phased out almost completely I think.
IME: In My Experience, no one seems to abbreviate this simple phrase.
MFoS: Middle Finger of Suspicion? No.
RTFT: Read The Fucking Thread? Noooope.
Um.
What.

Those are all.

Common mafiascum things.

HoS: I did a search for "Hand of Suspicion" and found one use over a year ago. I can't search 3 letters but yeah, I'd understand this.

IME: This is internet slang.

MFoS: Has had 3 uses in the past 3 years. This has phased out.

RTFT: Got 22 hits in the past year, primarily in newbie games from people who obviously read the wiki. I could accept this being useful to have, but there's a certain point where when only a handful of players use an acronym, it has to get explained in-thread all the time (or straight up gets ignored).

In post 441, mastina wrote:
In post 433, Mathdino wrote:Maybe an Outdated category?
I wouldn't recommend that, per se, but I would recommend Publish Dates, Last Revised dates (just adding Publish Dates/categories not counting as a revision; a revision in this case is CONTENT changed), and greater use of an existing category I'll track down in a sec, more or less one which is "site history". (Yes there is a category for that, believe it or not. I don't remember it's name, but it basically is "this is for things which are significant for their past value to the site but which are not as pertinent now", more or less.)

I read through the list of categories and couldn't find anything like that.

I agree on publish dates, and I'm already gonna do that. Still, it doesn't do much to point to the most recently created articles. When I was a newbie, I recognised that half the wiki was 6 years old and half was pretty good recent content, and yeah, the publishing dates helped. But where I got most of my mafia content was the MD, which, at the time, had tons of articles going around.

Now, not so much.

So the question I ask is, I'm a newbie, and I want to learn more about how to play mafia effectively given current site meta. Where do I go?

Because it's really easy to tell the newbies who are using wikitells by how outdated their scumhunting tactics are.

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Post Post #445  (ISO)  » Mon Mar 26, 2018 11:33 pm

In post 441, mastina wrote:Those are all.

Common mafiascum things.

lol
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Post Post #446  (ISO)  » Mon Mar 26, 2018 11:35 pm

rtft is common internet slang in general

maybe not common but i've definitely heard it outside of ms and even used offline (or rtfm i guess but the concept is the same, but with "manual")
eddie cane

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Post Post #447  (ISO)  » Tue Mar 27, 2018 12:06 am

I moved anything not current or relevant to a different page, reduced some clutter. Added a few that were missing. Anything that becomes modern or comes into use should go on the common page, everything else on the master page. Items can freefall, and that's fine, but new players don't need to learn a giant list of outdated garbage, the nickname of somebody that played 8 years ago, or what GD is.

I replaced PbPA with PbP. I see "PbP" (play by play), which is similar but different (play implies something is going on, PbPA is a dry analysis of posts). PbPA has become antiquated by people stating they've ISOed someone.

The version before Mathdino fixed it up was awful. An edit was a long time coming.

Varsoon's modding guide is on the wiki. Alisae's bit about rolecards or whatever should probably get a page too.

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Post Post #448  (ISO)  » Tue Mar 27, 2018 12:13 am

I think that we actually should be replacing the wiki strategy guides with good articles from bad articles, so newbies aren't taught how to play badly

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Post Post #449  (ISO)  » Tue Mar 27, 2018 12:20 am

The only time I've used PBPA is to tell people not to do it. For some reason, new players often think that when ISOing someone they have to comment on every single post that person makes. That playstyle has now pretty much died out and for good reason.
scum · scam · seam · team · term · tern · torn · town

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