Open 684: Stacking the Deck (Game Over!)

[CommKnight]

VOTE: Shinobi

Just because.

[CommKnight]

By the way, I'm the town Roleblocker.

By the way, I'm third party multiple day-vig.

DAYKILL: FREDRICK E CAMPBELL

[CommKnight]

@Mod

: I've never played this set-up before honestly. But I'm curious about Goon-Cop. Let's say for instance that mafia pick Bulletproof and Role Cop. Now technically they aren't "Goon" anymore. So does Goon Cop become useless (Can't find either of them anymore?) Or is Goon Cop effective against them and only can't find Traitor?

Also my bets are on them taking JOAT and Bulletproof which would make 4 town PRs, we know there ain't an IC so it should be easy to tell if someone is truthful later on.

[CommKnight]

Alright, time to get a bit more serious here now that we got some real shit going on. First of all. XnadrojX played AGAINST me before when he was mafia and I was town. He got himself fucked that game. Compare his play so far this game to that one. I'd like to think he's town this roll of the dice. Which will be nice.

Also LOL if both of these are scum, they need this early lynch so they know how much they need to still learn. VOTE: Frederick E Campbell GET REKT M8.

Seriously though, I'm comfortable with this. He's more likely to be scum jumping on with Lowell than vice versa. But one of these two are definitely scum and it's more likely him.

[CommKnight]

I've already determined that you probably aren't either role that you've claimed. Now it's just figuring out the most likely alignment motive for the stunt.

Really? It's scum doc, he's trying to get a PR to counter him. Most likely mafia traitor.

[CommKnight]

@Mod

: Campbell has been banned for 6 months (Trolling, trying to join game with multiple accounts AND excessive replace-outs). Just a heads up you'll need a replacement for him.

[CommKnight]

Anyone have a GOOD reason we should hang FEC today?

[CommKnight]

Not a good reason. The way he played makes me think Mafia Traitor.

Fastposted by Gamma, Ah haha, forgot he got replaced already. But tell me Gamma, how would you have read FEC's play?

[CommKnight]

Hawk and Aubrey could be TvT, I did miss your question to me. But honestly I'm not solid on it on either side of it. But TvT is my bet.

Though the other person I suspected actually is an option today. Lowell wasn't very townie early game. VOTE: Lowell

[CommKnight]

It went real quiet in here.

[CommKnight]

I'm having a hard time getting into this one. That and it seems like there's multiple people we're waiting on that are making this drag on. I'm on Lowell but the following ened prods:
-Hawk
-thenewearth
-Lowell
-Pyra

4/13 people haven't posted in over 2 days. So yeah, that's about a third of the game not here.

[CommKnight]

Comm, you've talked some but your laying in the shadows. Come into the light unless your a vampire. I agree with the others. If you think the game has gone silent, then make an attempt to cause an uproar in it. You're not being a very memorable player.

1.) I can't believe people who've played with me that are in this game haven't voted me for being quiet. Since I'm mostly pretty active in all of my games. (When I say pretty active, I mean lengthy posts, haven't really made lengthy posts this game).

2.) As town I usually draw so much heat and no one likes my cases Day 1 (or are unwilling to see a different way of thinking). That and they expect the greatest cases and when I come up with something simple I'm scum read for it and spend the rest of Day 1 defending myself.

3.) I feel like a vampire. I work the evening shift so really I spend around midnight doing most posts. Sometimes I'll post around lunch time if I wake up early enough.

4.) Honestly, it's the first time I can say that both my reads AND gut are failing me in sorting people. Lowell was an early scum read and no one has pinged me as scummy since. I do have a few town leans such as Xnad and havingfitz. From there, I got nothing, zilch, zero, nadda. Which is a new one for me. I can usually make up cases if it comes down to it to engage people but I just can't seem to think of one.

Also I did read FEC as scummy, even if trolling. But no one else seems to agree with scumreading that slot.

So two scum leans and two town leans, that still leaves me 7 slots left to sort. I do feel like Aubrey, MMM and Pyra should be off the pool for today and I would compromise on Shinobi. Something feels off about him. (Not necessarily scummy per-say. But if it came down to him or one of my town leans, it'd be him).

If there's specific posts that you want my thoughts on, go ahead and tell me the post number(s) to look at and I'll take a reread of them to see if anything is jumping out at me about them. Though I feel like a lot of them won't be as affective until we got some flips.

[CommKnight]

@Gamma, yeah, about 5am-11am is my hide-away from the world and shut my eyes time after feasting on the blood of my enemies from either CoD, Battlefield, Siege or me playing through Black Flag. (Seriously, wish I played when it was more active online, I love the sea battles).

[CommKnight]

I've been pushing my own wagon for some time now, who is also on the lowell vote.

VOTE: Shinobi
Lowell is town and Shinobi is planning to act all LAMIST tomorrow after he points out he was voting the guy who started the wagon on Lowell.

As I've said, I've been having an off feeling about Shinobi and I think for D1 cases goes, this is a damning one right here. Active scum will try to buddy town so they can later claim "Well I didn't SR them" or "Well I didn't lynch them".

VOTE: Shinobi

Finally a case I agree with and MMM is the one to make it (one of my townleans/reads).

[CommKnight]

Yay, something I can actually reply to.

I'm going to straight up say that I don't like CommKnight, and do not think he is flipping town this game.

Whether you like someone or not is NAI for both parties.

Majority of his posts early didn't seem like they were coming from a town perspective,

Oh? Which ones? Which parts? Be more specific. I can say the majority or Shinobi's and Lowell's posts don't feel like they're coming from a town perspective either. But hey, without pointing out what doesn't, it's just gut matey.

him

worried

that people were going to vote him based off meta

Let me just stop you right there, full stop. You think I was worried about being meta'd for activity so I post something about how I'm usually active. Which I also later end up explaining that my reads and gut are failing me this game for Day 1.

I find that a lot of scum state that things like that are probably TvT, so they can get town cred if potentially both of them are lynched in the game.

Not looking for town cred, I was asked what I thought, so I gave my answer. It's either right or wrong, but it's an early guess at two unknown's alignments. I wasn't like PLEASE TOWN READ ME FOR SAYING THIS IS TVT! They asked my opinion, I gave it.

I actually don't know how I feel about Lowell. The wagon on him made me want to point towards town, but Xayzeck's subtle shift of the wagon made me feel otherwise. I also haven't generally cared for much of his posts. That being said, regardless of his alignment, scum was on his wagon.

Jeez for someone pointing out me saying TvT is likely to come from scum, what is this. "I have suspicions on Lowell, but there is FOR SURE scum on his wagon regardless of alignment." Covering all your bases are you?

MMM's post where he voted on Shinobi is weird. I wouldn't call Lowell town at all.

Ah, so if you don't call Lowell town, then you think he might be scum. (I'll give you a hint, this is an open set-up game, which means not-town = scum. There are no third parties).

God damn, Comm's join onto the Shinobi wagon is bad. He is the fifth one on it and he goes "Like I said, shinobi blah blah blah....off feeling."

Yeah, that jump on the wagon. Like he even earlier stated he'd compromise on Shinobi and ended up doing so along with quoting a post he felt was a sufficient case to do so.

I would compromise on Shinobi. Something feels off about him. (Not necessarily scummy per-say. But if it came down to him or one of my town leans, it'd be him).

Oh look, there it is!

Scum is also 100% on this wagon regardless of Shinobi's alignment, which I see as blatantly town and incredibly obvious TownShinobi.

Didn't you ALSO say the same about Lowell's wagon?

I actually don't know how I feel about Lowell. The wagon on him made me want to point towards town, but Xayzeck's subtle shift of the wagon made me feel otherwise. I also haven't generally cared for much of his posts.

That being said, regardless of his alignment, scum was on his wagon.

Oh look you did. "Regardless of these two wagons of the day, SCUM are on them folks! It can't be that town has found two scummy people and voted them up with scum avoiding them, no sir-ee.. SCUM ARE ON THEM!"

So what happens when they both end up being scum? Who's the third then since you got it all figured out Day 1 and seem to know more than the rest of us apparently. I'll be happy to read one scum correctly Day 1 let alone two.

Ths leads me to believe that either MMM or CommKnight are scum,

I know you're wrong on me, but I'm pretty sure you're wrong about MMM as well.


@Boonskiies, pick up your game bro, tunneling on me is not going to help because even though I haven't posted this game much, I'll rip your arguments to shit. Especially when you start off with saying "regardless of alignment" for TWO people. That means you're skipping over the fact they both could be scum.

Honestly the only reason I'm not voting you was your predecessor and the fact Shinobi is more likely to be scum at this point. Also the fact I can see this sort of tunneling coming from town. But LOL at the shitty quality of it.

[CommKnight]

Actually with how fast my wagon grew, I invite you all to lynch me. Let me flip green and when I do, you can find the idiots that actually thought wagoning me was smart. Boonskies is legit town (not a bright one and I'm refusing to read his posts until he reads mine because he admitted to not reading it).

But check the ones that hopped onto me so fast. This is almost comical. Just need some benny hill music with how fast they switched.

Go ahead, lynch me. There's going to be zero resistance to my wagon anyway. (I got no buddies that's for damn sure).

[CommKnight]

*sips tea*

You're all scum reading and town reading people for not so great reasons and Boonskies replaces in to immediately form a wagon that grows with people adding votes and just nodding their head to bad logic.

But that's none of my business.

Also Boonskies said if I flip scum, MMM is likely town. However, he never said what happens when I flip town (which if he's scum and setting up my mislynch, he knows I will).

But that's none of my business.

[CommKnight]

Just gonna say it now, if I am to die and town lynches Fitz any day in this game, I am going to come back and haunt all of you. Because you might not be able to trust me right now where I'm "unknown", but when I flip green, you will know what I say should be solid. Keep Fitz alive. He's going to be the power player when this gets down to LYLO.

[CommKnight]

I've already answered my stuff so either you believe me or don't at this point.

[CommKnight]

@Boonskiies I already outlined what I thought about that. Self preservation is unlikely coming from a VT because lynching with an "anyone but me" mindset leaves the risk of killing a town pr off (pretty much just as likely as getting scum with that mindset), and I'd think a VT would value a PR's life over their own. I said that self preservation suggests that Shin isn't a VT (which leaves town pr or scum), not that Shin isn't town at all as you said.

One thing I can say right now is that Shin's vote onto Comm looks like Shin trying to save their own skin. That's not to say anything about the reasons that either of the wagons are based on, though. Maybe Comm has given reasons for them to be wagoned, but Shin only started to mention that he liked the wagon on Comm after he himself already had a good amount of votes on him and even then, Shin didn't articulate any specific reasons for the Comm wagon that he agreed with himself. This kind of self preservation is not necessarily indicative of being scum, but it's unlikely coming from a VT at the very least. Assuming that I'm right, this leaves us the possibility of Shin being a town pr (not that likely) or scum.

As for Comm, it seems to me that they were on Shin for some time, although the post where he explains the reasons for him voting for Shin is strange (Comm mentioned that he townread MMM, but never mentioned anything along those lines until he used the townread to support his vote). Comm's reaction after being moved to L-1 doesn't sit well with me. His complaint about how fast he was voted up seems a bit hypocritical after he didn't object to quickly pushing wagons other than his own.

Actually with how fast my wagon grew, I invite you all to lynch me. Let me flip green and when I do, you can find the idiots that actually thought wagoning me was smart. Boonskies is legit town (not a bright one and I'm refusing to read his posts until he reads mine because he admitted to not reading it).

But check the ones that hopped onto me so fast. This is almost comical. Just need some benny hill music with how fast they switched.

Go ahead, lynch me. There's going to be zero resistance to my wagon anyway. (I got no buddies that's for damn sure).

His immediate defeatism and expectation to be lynched (along with the sarcasm after his wagon grows) doesn't really look towny, either. It's perfectly normal for town to object to their wagon and think that it's not well-founded. However, I think a town player would also back those objections up with reasons and explain why they should not be voted up, instead of sarcastically resigning themselves to their fate, saying that at this point it's useless for them to try and convince anyone because people have already made up their minds.

Edit: It's nice that my post already answers Gamma's question and I don't have to go back and change it (lol).

These two posts, and so close together. Welcome to my scum reads Pyra. I'll let you try to figure out where you fucked up.

If Shin flips red, I'm coming for you tomorrow.

[CommKnight]

Comm I suggest you claim

I'm just a VT, hence why I quoted Pyra's posts together above. Guess my little shot at him didn't read through as easily as I had hoped.

[CommKnight]

not helpful

Let's see if you'll keep calling me not helpful after Comm flips town.

They're gonna do it anyway. Then they'll make up excuses to scum read you later. It's going to happen because there's a bunch of sheep following Shinobi's death call (instead of looking elsewhere if they believe Shinobi is even remotely town).

[CommKnight]

I take you think Shinobi is scum, right?

Yep, though Pyra could also be a good lynch. So you can count my vote there as well. Off to work though so won't be home till closer to deadline.

[CommKnight]

Shinobi and Pyra are the only ones I'm willing to lynch today (and will make final vote when I return home tonight).

[CommKnight]

One thing I can say right now is that Shin's vote onto Comm looks like Shin trying to save their own skin. That's not to say anything about the reasons that either of the wagons are based on, though. Maybe Comm has given reasons for them to be wagoned, but Shin only started to mention that he liked the wagon on Comm after he himself already had a good amount of votes on him and even then, Shin didn't articulate any specific reasons for the Comm wagon that he agreed with himself. This kind of self preservation is not necessarily indicative of being scum, but it's unlikely coming from a VT at the very least. Assuming that I'm right, this leaves us the possibility of Shin being a town pr (not that likely) or scum.

This was actually my main reason for placing him above Shin/fitz but on second thought I think it's unlikely that it comes from scum - scum could just take the mental note that Shinobi is a PR and get rid of him at night.
Unless of course they're both scum and Pyra is attempting to make a Shinobi PR claim more believable...

Let me put this out there: Traitor would try to out their reads to the mafia team to off even if he tries to do it secretly.

Just saying.

VOTE: Pyra

[CommKnight]

Pyra (7) - Creature, Aubrey, MMM, XnadrojX, CommKnight, Shinobi, Lowell <------ Lynch!
Lowell (4) - havingfitz, Pyra, Gamma Emerald, Boonskiies

Not Voting (1) - Xayzeck

Scum fucked up. We're looking for 3 people. They aren't all going to be on the same wagon, Pyra and Gamma are dead. Which means there is at least one scum in fitz, Boonskies and Xay. This is pretty much a guarantee (the traitor will be either or, but the two goons/PRs will be one and one). By not shooting into the Pyra wagon, they more or less gave one of their buddies no water to swim in.

On the Pyra wagon I'd say Creature Aubrey and Xnad are all town. Which leaves MMM, Shinobi and Lowell for another scum if my reads are right (I usually TR one scum so I won't say they're 100% off the list).

Now then, not-voting Pyra is probably the easiest of the two. Fitz seems to be townie this game and Boonskies is acting like tunneling noob-town. Which leaves VOTE: Xayzeck

Mistake #2 was letting me live past N1. Now it's time to do a clean sweep.

[CommKnight]

@Boonskies. Think about it like you were scum. Who the hell would recruit traitor and give town another PR (not only that, but traitor cannot be found by cop). If scum team recruited traitor, they are 100% stupid. Also I will say the whole me pointing out the traitor idea of Pyra probably would've made at least one scum reconsider voting Pyra.

Also for anyone wondering, we have now expended out "certain" PRs. Which means from here on out, each PR claim should be analyzed.

Goon Cop
Roleblocker - Gamma
Tracker
Bodyguard - Pyra
Vigilante
Innocent Child (reveal at start of day one) - No IC

Only possibilities now are Goon Cop, Tracker and Vigilante. Vigilante can prove himself easily (so scum can't fake claim that since they'd be caught within a day!). That means there's Goon Cop and Tracker claims possible that scum would try to fake. Also each scum flip we get that isn't a goon or traitor (BP, Role Cop, JOAT), will also prove there is a town PR (which will make fake claiming risky for scum since if they get counter claimed, they die. If they fake claim vig and there's a real vig, the real one will shoot the fake one).

Honestly, I like these odds. With Day 1 and Night 1 flips, scum is going to be cornered. Xay got screwed on PoE.

[CommKnight]

You were too busy tunneling me to see my snarky remarks to your bad tunnel and the general idea I had on Shinobi/Lowell being scum (they still can be one or both on the Pyra wagon).

But for now, if I can get one red flip, we can do some further analysis from there.

[CommKnight]

(not only that, but traitor cannot be found by cop)

Basically, I question the accuracy on this. I thought the town Cop got a solid read. If X person is scum, regardless of title and investigated, the cop would get the result of "goon." I didn't read anything saying that the Mafia traitor is immune to investigations. If you're referencing the Mafia cop here, I also never saw anything about the traitor being immune to their investigations either.

Well you see, a COP would find the Traitor. But a GOON COP is specific to finding only goons. Which means recruiting the traitor makes him vulnerable to investigative (while not recruiting traitor makes scum unaware of who exactly the traitor is and risk shooting him/her themselves). I mean hell, if the traitor isn't recruited they have a bullet=proof ability which with the roleblocker and bodyguard dead they'll know they hit the traitor if a kill doesn't get through.

Also I played this set-up a long time ago. You guys weren't in my first game here where I explained I use to play mafia regularly years ago on different sites (I can't even find most of them anymore). One site looked similar to this one but it had the default chat box on forums that appeared at the top of the front page where you could leave comments in real time. It had a much smaller player-base but within 10 games you pretty much knew all the actives. It had a dark theme too, I just can't remember the name of it. But I must've played about 30-40 games alone on that site + modded over 15 games there.

But that is irrelevant I think I played this set-up only once. It isn't so much the experience of it as it is a "What would I do as scum?". Well for one, why the hell would I want the town to have more power roles than needed. Recruiting the traitor to make a goon and adding ANOTHER role to town (possibly the cop to catch all three of them or a vig to shoot them), just isn't worth it. If they're smart they kept choices down to 0-1. We know Innocent child isn't in play so there's literally 3 roles left for their 3 possible choices. But I'm willing to bet they weren't stupid enough to give us 3 additional power roles for what in essence are just counters to those same roles they just handed to us. (That and originally they'd risk creating an innocent child).

[CommKnight]

Also I find it amusing Shinobi is now sticking to the shadows (after all, it was a close call yesterday for him).

So far I'd say Xay and Shin. I'm having doubts on MMM being townie. He's agreeing but not agreeing with me. Wanting a "good case" to vote, which possibly could be his scum buddy so he isn't forced to outright bus without a case on how his

I'm not going to say I know all the scum team, but honestly, you can't tell me scum hopped onto the Xay wagon this quick D2. You'd have to be a fool to think scum would lead this lynch so early with no real cases from the first few voters. If Xay flips scum, I'd definitely look at those who are wanting to avoid his lynch.

I could be wrong, but the signs aren't pointing to that being the case. Also if you don't know why I townread Creature, you haven't played mafia with Creature as town. This is definitely his town play.

If someone has a better case(s) to bring forward, then bring them. But if you can't top mine, then sit down and take a back seat.

[CommKnight]

Go ahead and meta me Xnad, you played against me when I was town and you were mafia. I'm curious to see the bad case you come up with if you think my "meta" is bad.

[CommKnight]

@Shinobi, well if you got something else to say, bring it up. Stop being a coward scum bag hiding in the shadows only willing to call things "bad" and not put your own ass on the line to make a decent case.

I know from experience that the chances of all 3 scum on the Pyra wagon are virtually none (with obviously some exceptions). But even if you assume that, then I know myself to be town and it'd be 3/6. But unlike some others, I have no doubt we can get at least 1 scum in a pool of THREE people. So unless you care to make a case on one of the three, please sit down and we'll get to you after we get a red flip.

Fastposted by Shinobi. I'd prefer you actually create a case instead of just criticizing and questioning. There's plenty of pages to look through. So do it. Stop getting others to do all the work for you.

[CommKnight]

VOTE: Xay Must've missed my vote.

[CommKnight]

Here's the other thing, aside from Lowell I feel comfortable with the group that has voted Xay so far today as well. I mean Shin and MMM aren't on him which is giving me a green light to say that this is likely scum. You know, unless we're all town on Xay at the moment who is also town. Scum sure as hell ain't committing to this vote yet either.

[CommKnight]

I've played with town!Fitz and this looks like his play. When Boonskies entered he created a "case" on me. It was one I tore apart yet he continued to push for my head. Honestly, I'd see scum replacing in as backing down once their argument got destroyed. But he persisted. It felt like a newb-town push. Although now that I think about it, it could've been he was trying to push a wagon off his buddy and onto me. But that seems questionable since he did just replace in and I doubt scum would want to draw heat like that.

Scum have a way of always being unsure. Yet he kept pushing me, so I believe he's town. Feel free to make a case that says otherwise.

In fact feel free to make a case on Fitz too if you have one. But it remains that there's 3 people to lynch from and a very high likelyhood that at least one of them is scum. So if you are indeed town Xay, then look at the other two and push them.

Also I'm on Shinobi's case a lot because he was active D1. But now D2 he's sitting on the backburner letting shit go by. Now you can't tell me I shouldn't expect him to be as active or more active now with two flips and more to analyze on. D1's are always shit, but D2 we got something to at least work with now.

[CommKnight]

This entire post is bullshit.
VOTE: CommKnight

Oh nice analysis from the king of bullshit himself. You've hopped on more wagons than any of us. Some with no reasoning what so ever.

@Aubrey, since you (Aubrey) actually made a reasonable reply to my post I'll answer them by part.

1.) Well that game was a clusterfuck because I was rolecop and thought I rolecoped someone who I didn't (but was going to the next night I had the chance to) and ended up getting messed up results that completely threw us (and even the mafia) through quite the olympic hurdles. I don't quite got a specific post I can point to, but in general he feels like he did that game. I'm not here to say it's concrete. It's my personal read of him *at this current moment*. He hasn't done anything I've picked out to be after him for. Unless someone feels like making a case on him, then my TR on fitz stands. You don't gotta agree with it, but that's the whole point of having an opinion isn't it? Something you believe that others may not. I see a town!Fitz this game and until the evidence comes up that says otherwise or a good case is made on him, then why the hell should I be scum reading him? People want me to scumread people for them it seems for an easy way out (or townread people to get them off the hook). So far in my games I am generally right. So even if you don't see why I think something, from my experience when I'm town and I think a certain way for any reason, I follow it because it's usually in the ballpark.

2.) Actually when I'm scum, I'm usually very confident but play as my town!Comm active style to blend in. That was a legit time I had no damn clue on how to read the people. But now with more events going on, more flips, more wagons since those early stages (and fredericks' awful trolling), we got something for me to at least begin working with. Whether I'm right or not, we'll find out. Also the two are different. I went from quiet to active, he went from active to quiet. Even when he speaks now, it doesn't look like he's building anything on anyone. Sure he might hate me for scum reading him, but if indeed my scum read has no good case or any water. Why would you OMGUS me and draw attention to the case in general? If it is indeed bad or unsubstantial, one would think to ignore it. However, in my experience, usually the ones making a fuss about my cases (and trying to paint me as a bad player) end up being scum. Now, I'm not sure whether that will be accurate for every game as more people get use to me, but it seems like people are afraid of why I'm SR'ing them and want to change what it is they're doing. But usually my reads don't have one solid post to look at. I'd end up quoting every single of their posts to explain my reads.

3.) I'm fine with people being quiet. I have a hard time being quiet sometimes. But what I have a problem with in particular is Shinobi seems like one of the players that would make some good cases as town. Maybe I'm holding him to a bar for quality I shouldn't. But overall, it doesn't feel like he's put in effort like he would if he were a town player. Also while you're focusing solely on what I'm saying about Shinobi, you're being more defensive of Shinobi (a person who I ended up changing my vote from yesterday and am not even currently voting today). Yet nothing is really said on my PoE of Xay being scum.

@Everyone. I keep saying it and I'll say it again. I'll say it in every game people don't like my cases in. Don't like them? MAKE ONE. Stop being a leech. Here's what I can tell you. I'm trying to find scum. If you're town and not putting the effort in. I can promise you one of these other active players is scum. If they lead the lynch it's guaranteed to be a mislynch. Because they'd want to aim it away from themselves and their buddies. Now I know you can't just take my word for it, but this game I am green and am actually trying to find scum. If you don't got a case to bring up, but disagree with mine, then what do you want me to do? Make better ones for all of you? I can't do that burden. Because scum are still going to try and discredit me if I am correct in any of my hunches or assumptions. If you keep wanting better cases but don't put your own foot forward, those cases aren't going to happen. Think I'm wrong in something I say? Point to some evidence that contradicts what I say. Maybe I overlooked something or my memory put something there that really isn't. But if you can't do either of those, why the hell would you scum read me for at least bloody trying to find scum. If my history of scum hunting is anything to go off of, it sure seems a lot better than most even if it's for some faulty reasoning or even plain old hunches. (Them hunches can be a plain bitch to scum when I end up being right).

I mean please. Make a case. Make a good one. Show me a good case that can be made this game. Stop relying on me if you're just going to disagree with me for everything I say. Because something else will happen, I'll get mislynched and people will brush it off as "he played badly/scummy". Yet no one else had the balls to put their foot in the door to say anything else nor will they if I ever hang this game. THAT I know from experience.

[CommKnight]

Adding onto that. If I do hang this game, I want someone to seriously go over my cases with the knowledge I was looking for scum and continue my work. Chances are, if I was on the right track, I will get hanged for it. Because if I was wrong all the time, scum would just latch onto my cases and help me mislynch town all the time which would in turn get me mislynched if they could just point to my lead in all of them.

That's all I ask if I get mislynched this game, go back, try to figure out where my leads were taking me, and continue them.

[CommKnight]

VOTE: Shinobi after actually reading through 801
I still don't like 795 but we'll see where this wagon goes I guess

Honestly, this makes me want Xay dead even more. Focusing on my SR of Shinobi but ignoring my vote is still on Xay.

Here's my opinion: There's scum between MMM & Shinobi. One of them will be scum and one of them will be town by end-game. That I am almost certain of.

[CommKnight]

VOTE: Shinobi after actually reading through 801
I still don't like 795 but we'll see where this wagon goes I guess

Honestly, this makes me want Xay dead even more. Focusing on my SR of Shinobi but ignoring my vote is still on Xay.

I'm assuming that this is an associative read of some sort?

Also, I'm starting to think xnad is scum.

Think about this: Why is MMM focusing on you rather than myself, Xay or even Xnad at this point? I mean hell he's not even voting in the pool of three which we suspect (and I am confident) that there's at least one scum in.

If you're against voting in the pool of 3, then you must have a reason you believe all three to be town. Out of any other pool, this is the one we have the biggest chances of being correct and nabbing a kill on mafia.

[CommKnight]

@Xnad, Look at MMM/Shinobi. No matter your read on me, I think there is one scum and one town between both. One's alignment will sort the other. That's what I believe.

[CommKnight]

Really MMM? "assuming everyone who isn't blindly sheeping". Well Xnad isn't blindly sheeping and I don't see him as scum. In fact he's voting me and I think he's town. Aubrey isn't blindly sheeping me, I don't think he's scum. I'm still neutral-town on him but I think he'd flip green if we ever lynch him.

Boonskies isn't blindly following me even if he is voting. I don't think he's scum (nor did I think yesterday he was scum when he was gunning for me).

Actually the only people I really scum read are: Lowell, MMM, Shinobi and Xay. Obviously since there's only three scum, I am 100% wrong about at least one of those reads. Honestly I think Lowell might be green as my SR on him came mostly from early D1 when I was tying him and Fred together (who may I remind everyone has flipped green). So, I'm not entirely sure on Lowell anymore. My top three are MMM, Shinobi and Xay. Now I say one scum is between MMM and Shinobi. But the other will be town in my opinion. So even from my own thoughts I am wrong of most likely at least two people there. Which means I am TR'ing or am neutral on at least one scum. Which, I feel like I will find later on. However, right now, I think Xay will flip scum. I will hound Shinobi for something when he keeps calling my cases bad if he can't come up with anything better. But today I think Xay should be the lynch.

Now there's obviously more than 4 people who don't blindly follow me (and Lowell is even voting Xay if I remember correctly). So your bullshit comment on me being on a thin line can go out the window. I don't SR people for disagreeing with me. I SR people for being scummy as fuck even if I can't point to just a single post that represents them in my head.

[CommKnight]

VOTE: Shinobi after actually reading through 801
I still don't like 795 but we'll see where this wagon goes I guess

Honestly, this makes me want Xay dead even more. Focusing on my SR of Shinobi but ignoring my vote is still on Xay.

Here's my opinion: There's scum between MMM & Shinobi. One of them will be scum and one of them will be town by end-game. That I am almost certain of.

If you think MMM is derailing your Xay push to vote Shin, wouldn't that make MMM/Xay scum and Shin town? How would this explain Shin scum and MMM town?

That's why I say it's one or the other. Either MMM or Shin is scum I think. But I feel pretty confident in Xay flipping scum from the ones who didn't vote.

Xay isn't comfortable voting in the pool, which I think is another point to add. Why not? All three scum being on Pyra would be kinda fucked up.

But if we had to lynch in the Pyra wagon, I'm feeling better about an MMM lynch over Shinobi.

[CommKnight]

Xay isn't comfortable voting in the pool, which I think is another point to add. Why not? All three scum being on Pyra would be kinda fucked up.

Are you ignoring why all 3 scum being on Pyra is not impossible, because it's been explained like 4 times already.

Not ignoring it, just don't think it's very likely.

[CommKnight]

Mhm, I got work shortly, so my posts will have to wait till later.

[CommKnight]

LOL @ SCUM RAGE.

No worries MMM, you die tomorrow.

[CommKnight]

Well interesting point on Creature, both him and fitz have not posted in nearly 4 days now. (Fitz V/LA ends today so we should see him tonight or tomorrow at the latest). However, Creature isn't on V/LA.

Anyway, so Creature is an interesting one that you are even looking at. I think he's town. He is trying to sort people (or maybe knows who everyone is already anyway). But a few posts from him in sorting myself even:

Spoiler:

Maybe Shin/Comm were all town wagons.

- If Creature is scum, I think Shinobi is town. This seems like either town sorting players (what I think) or scum grabbing town cred by "town reading" town players.

This is why none of them seemed to be treated differently.

- In relation that Shinobi and I weren't really treated differently in the wagons on us.

idk, compared to Civilization, he looks different.

- Civilization was one of my mafia games, so he's trying to sort me here.

not helpful

Let's see if you'll keep calling me not helpful after Comm flips town.

- Now this is probably the scummiest thing that Creature has said (depending on how you twist it).

I think I'd need a bit more to go on than just what has been said on Creature though to scum read him.

Xay is one option, but I want to look at MMM now as well. He's raging over something and if he IS town he needs to be sorted as one, because right now I don't think he is.

VOTE: Pyra Speedwagon gogogogo

I mean hell, his vote was a speedwagon vote... by his own admission. Honestly his read on both Pyra and now Xay are not genuine. Also lol trying to say Xnad, Shinobi and I are the scummiest people. I think I'd trust Aubrey's reads over MMM's even if he does end up being town. Because Aubrey seems to be better at analyzing than MMM.

So for now FOS MMM, consider my vote on him if a wagon does form. Because I would be fine with lynching Xay or MMM today.

[CommKnight]

obvtown
{Xnad, Aubrey}
{Xayzeck, Boonskiies}
{Creature, havingfitz}
{Lowell, CommKnight, Shinobi}
obvscum

No I'm not motivated to do much more/scumcasing people/bla. Not while there's nothing new to look over.

Oh sorry, it was Lowell. Which conveniently you voted for all three of us D1 and think you're right on all of them.

Now you're saying I'm covering for scum buddies (meaning Aubrey) who you have here on your "obtown" reads. LOL fuck outta here. If a wagon does form on you, I'm being the bloody hammer. So if you get to L1 I'm putting it in now my intent to hammer your scummy ass.

[CommKnight]

Comm...who do you suspect discounting your very flawed POE scenario.

Town
<Boonskiies, havingfitz, Aubrey, XnadrojX>
<Lowell, Shinobi, Creature>
<MMM, Xayzeck>
Scum

@Fitz, remember our game together I TR'd Tywin all game. Well I do that a lot it seems when I'm town. End up townreading a single scum most of the game. So I'll say that I will look at my town reads when evidence presents itself. But I do feel confident that there's 2 scum in my SR's and Neutrals.

My thoughts are MMM and Shinobi being opposite alignments. Meaning one IS scum and the other is town. Honestly, I think Xay is scum but if the other town members want to check into someone else, we can. I think MMM then becomes my choice because he feels like raging scum lately who's lost his cool. But that isn't the main reason. He flip flopped votes all day 1.

However, now I'm curious to see who exactly he has voted... Just a moment.

[CommKnight]

MMM voting: Pyra, CommKnight, Lowell, Frederick E Campell, Lowell, Shinobi, CommKnight, Shinobi, Pyra, Lowell, CommKnight, Shinobi, CommKnight,

So he's voted for 3 town players (including myself here because it's MY analysis) with 2 unknowns. So he hasn't scum hunted outside of 3 living people at the moment. I'd say with this amount of focus on us three, if he were to flip red, I'd put both Lowell and Shinobi in my town reads. This does not seem like a bussing vote from him. So for me, him flipping red would sort 2 people for me.

Now let's look at Xay: Pyra, Shinobi <- THAT'S IT. 2 votes... this entire game. Not only that but one was on town and the other was also on Shinobi (also conveniently one of MMM's suspects).

Two votes isn't much to go on, I can't even say Shinobi wouldn't be a bus because only voted him once and even unvoted after.

VOTE: MMM (My vote can still go to Xay, but I think MMM would sort people. I do believe both will flip red, just MMM's would be more informative).

[CommKnight]

Why is xnad town?

Why is he scum?

It's a read, not a confirmation. I will keep an eye on him, but let's say for a moment he's scum. Then there's 2 others out there for us to catch right now.

So what do you think of my thoughts on you and MMM being opposite factions but one scum in between both of you? Hell, what do you think of the idea of MMM being scum here?

[CommKnight]

MMM voting: Pyra, CommKnight, Lowell, Frederick E Campell, Lowell, Shinobi, CommKnight, Shinobi, Pyra, Lowell, CommKnight, Shinobi, CommKnight,

@Shinobi, I compiled his voting history by ISO'ing him and then ctrl+F with "Vote:" as the finder. He voted you 3 separate times so far. I would not say you two are scum buddies. You know I scum read you earlier but MMM and you with your interactions, I'd say that you can't BOTH be scum. Only one of you. He's being the scummiest of the two in my opinion and it seems like he's being avoided by most. Meanwhile I could rack up votes on you without too much resistance (I already did remember).

So in my opinion, MMM is definitely the way to go by now.

Also can you give me a clear quote of Xnad riding off of the MMM and me part? Or at least an area of posts for me to look at for reassessment? I do not mind rereading, but if I don't know what I'm looking for that you're seeing, I might not see it.

[CommKnight]

Honestly, I'm done responding to MMM. He's a tunneling troll.

@Fitz, since you're one of the few acting sensibly, what is your take on MMM currently?

[CommKnight]

Is there a reason shin is off the block today? If Xay isn't happening I still don't want to see comm lynched.

Then consider MMM. At best he's scum, at worst, he's scummy as town who obviously is tunneling. Even his vote history shows him flip flopping between his 3 choices.

Which by the way, yes, he was flip flopping. Look at it again, he went on the easiest wagons at the time.

[CommKnight]

Day 1 Vote Counts

Spoiler:

Vote Count 1.0

Fredrick E Campbell

(4) -

MMM

,

XnadrojX

,

CommKnight

,

Hawk

Hawk

(2) -

Aubrey

,

Lowell

Pyra

(1) -

Xayzeck

havingftiz

(1) -

thenewearth

MMM

(1) -

Shinobi

XnadrojX

(1) -

Fredrick E Campbell

Not Voting (2) -

Pyra

,

havingfitz

Vote Count 1.1

Lowell

(3) -

MMM

,

XnadrojX

,

havingfitz

Gamma Emerald

(1) -

CommKnight

Pyra

(1) -

Lowell

havingftiz

(1) -

thenewearth

MMM

(1) -

Shinobi

Shinobi

(1) -

Aubrey

thenewearth

(1) -

Gamma Emerald

Not Voting (3) -

Pyra

,

Hawk

,

Xayzeck

Vote Count 1.2

Lowell

(5) -

MMM

,

XnadrojX

,

havingfitz

,

CommKnight

,

Pyra

<---- L-2!

Pyra

(2) -

Lowell

,

Aubrey

havingftiz

(1) -

thenewearth

MMM

(1) -

Shinobi

thenewearth

(1) -

Gamma Emerald

Not Voting (2) -

Hawk

,

Xayzeck

Vote Count 1.3

Lowell

(5) -

MMM

,

XnadrojX

,

havingfitz

,

CommKnight

,

Pyra

<---- L-2!

Pyra

(2) -

Lowell

,

Aubrey

Shinobi

(2) -

Xayzeck

,

Gamma Emerald

havingftiz

(1) -

thenewearth

MMM

(1) -

Shinobi

Not Voting (1) -

Hawk

Vote Count 1.4

Shinobi

(5) -

Xayzeck

,

Gamma Emerald

,

MMM

,

Lowell

,

CommKnight

<---- L-2!

Lowell

(3) -

XnadrojX

,

havingfitz

,

Pyra

Pyra

(1) -

Aubrey

havingftiz

(1) -

thenewearth

MMM

(1) -

Shinobi

Vote Count 1.5

Shinobi

(5) -

Xayzeck

,

Lowell

,

CommKnight

,

XnadrojX

,

Aubrey

<---- L-2!

CommKnight

(5) -

Boonskiies

,

Creature

,

Shinobi

,

MMM

,

Gamma Emerald

<---- L-2!

Lowell

(2) -

havingfitz

,

Pyra

Not Voting (1) -

Hawk

Vote Count 1.6

Lowell

(3) -

havingfitz

,

Pyra

,

Gamma Emerald

Pyra

(3) -

Creature

,

Aubrey

,

MMM

Shinobi

(2) -

Lowell

,

CommKnight

CommKnight

(2) -

Boonskiies

,

Shinobi

Not Voting (2) -

Xayzeck

,

XnadrojX

Vote Count 1.7

Pyra

(7) -

Creature

,

Aubrey

,

MMM

,

XnadrojX

,

CommKnight

,

Shinobi

,

Lowell

<------ Lynch!

Lowell

(4) -

havingfitz

,

Pyra

,

Gamma Emerald

,

Boonskiies

Not Voting (1) -

Xayzeck

Day 2 Vote Counts

Spoiler:

Vote Count 2.0

Xayzeck

(3) -

Creature

,

Lowell

,

Boonskiies

Lowell

(2) -

MMM

,

havingfitz

Not Voting (5) -

Xayzeck

,

Aubrey

,

XnadrojX

,

CommKnight

,

Shinobi

Vote Count 2.1

Xayzeck

(4) -

Creature

,

Lowell

,

Boonskiies

,

CommKnight

CommKnight

(2) -

XnadrojX

,

MMM

Lowell

(1) -

havingfitz

XnadrojX

(1) -

Aubrey

Not Voting (2) -

Xayzeck

,

Shinobi

Vote Count 2.2

Xayzeck

(3) -

Creature

,

Lowell

,

Boonskiies

CommKnight

(2) -

XnadrojX

,

MMM

Lowell

(1) -

havingfitz

XnadrojX

(1) -

Aubrey

MMM

(1) -

CommKnight

Not Voting (2) -

Xayzeck

,

Shinobi

Scum Reads

Flipped Town/Me

Town Reads

Neutral

Also another post will be incoming with each player and possible associates based on votes. (I am never doing individual colour tags ever again for that many vote counts... jeebus... Took too much time.

[CommKnight]

Below is each player and possible associates based on vote counts so far (if you have a question, make is specific so I can answer it without confusion). Total number of possible associates will be in ()'s

Boonskiies

MMM, havingfitz, Shinobi, XnadrojX, Creature (5)

Lowell

CommKnight, Shinobi, Aubrey, Creature (4)

MMM

Boonskiies, havingfitz, Xayzeck, Aubrey, XnadrojX, Creature (6)

havingfitz

Boonskiies, MMM, CommKnight, Shinobi, Xayzeck, Aubrey, XnadrojX (7)

CommKnight

Lowell, havingfitz, Aubrey (3)

Shinobi

Boonskiies, havingfitz, XnadrojX, Creature (4)

Xayzeck

MMM, havingfitz, Aubrey, XnadrojX (4)

Aubrey

Lowell, MMM, havingfitz, CommKnight, Xayzeck, Creature (6)

XnadrojX

Boonskiies, MMM, havingfitz, Shinobi, Xayzeck, Creature (6)

Creature

Boonskiies, Lowell, MMM, Shinobi, Aubrey, XnadrojX (6)

- The above assumes scum buddies were never the first on their partner's wagon.
- The above excludes when they were at L3 and their buddies may then pile on.
- The above is not guaranteed, but may help find associates once we get a red flip.
- The above cannot take account for the goons voting for the traitor (but should account for traitor avoiding voting for the goons).

Now theoretically the above should not have someone on one's associates possible but not be on theirs. Also I know I can remove myself from those associates so for me, there's 1 less associate for each that has myself on it.

Currently under the circumstances it is my belief that if we get a red flip and refer back to this list, we can find at least one scum in the list. If they are the traitor then I'd say both scum are in the pool, otherwise... scum could have voted for traitor but will not have voted for their other partner. So the traitor is the only one who could mess up my list here.

[CommKnight]

With 10 alive, the max associates in the above list is 9. I'd say with Fitz having the bigger "possibilities" is a sure sign of the scum going to try and buddy him. Which means that if he's town, the scum do not view his current reads as a threat.

There is 100% a scum between MMM, Aubrey, Xnad and Creature just due to the amount (barring my reads which I think MMM is scum).

If we could get a red flip between Lowell, Shinobi or Xay that would definitely make the pool limited and easier to find scum (but whether we lynch right is questionable).

Come at me scum, I dare you. I bet you're looking at that list and seeing your end is closer than you thought. Especially the traitor. The traitor should theoretically have both scum on his possibility list.

[CommKnight]

I don't know how I feel about M being scum...

He's either scum or bad at playing town currently. So if you believe he's town. The latter is true.

I mean hell, he's not bothering to understand my posts, so not like he is benefiting town any at the current moment. Instead of asking anything about the lists, he just makes fun of it. Not exactly a town motivated response and not a person that I am going to bother dealing with any longer. He is not serving town interest and by that, must therefore be working against town. I've let scum push on me before with similar trolling shit. Not anymore. He hangs.

Honestly it's gone on long enough and I'm at the point I don't even care if he flips town. He's a negative to town at the moment and would be best dead today.

[CommKnight]

@Fitz, I gotta get ready for work, short shift tonight so about 6 hours till I'll be able to reply. But I'll answer your post in a break down of parts when I return. For now, just remember, reads change. just because I TR or SR someone early on does not mean I'll always TR/SR them. That is absurd to assume that and as town you should hope I'm not THAT tunnel-y.

[CommKnight]

Comm how many games of mafia have you played total, both on and offsite?

Real Time: Over 1000 easily.
Forum on site: 9.5 (Can't discuss the .5 till after it finishes).
Forum off site: About 40-50
Games modded: 25-30

Out of all of those games. Almost every single time, I get called bad town or bad logic. But the ones who ended up being with people I've played with multiple times finally ended up listening to me (and in some cases when I end up being mafia get themselves killed) and catching scum.

If there's one thing I can say about my forum mafia experience over all my games. Is that I've come up with some fucked up theories/claims/etc that have scored the win for town in the end (and usually kept me one-two votes from hanging more than a few times). I can also say with confidence, in games where I've been lynched and flip town, when no one goes back to check who I was suspicious of, they never ended up catching them in time. THAT I can say with 100% confidence. Every time I flip town and town does not reread what I've looked at/said/done. They've lost. (Which even to me is crazy because you know, I expect the scum to fool me enough once in a while that I'm completely wrong, but usually I'm wrong about 1-2 people, but got at least one scum (usually more) in my cross hairs). I know that sounds like tooting my own horn, but I don't think I've ever once been in a situation where town ignores me completely when I flip town and they've won. Not once.

Anyway, probably more info than you wanted. But I do want, in the chance I'm mislynched or killed tonight, that town review my train of thought and actually try to sort the people I was suspicious of. Because when you do see I'm town, then you'll know there's obviously a reason I'm suspicious of somebody or thinking a certain way. Even if you disagree with the case I have or my thought process, do not ignore what I say if I'm flipped as if I was not onto anything. That will be a sure way to miss scum again tomorrow.

[CommKnight]

(I haven't forgotten about the post I promised to reply to. Just a bit of a busy night since I got home so things are coming a bit slow. I'll get to it before bed, that is a promise).

I have no reason to lie as town - that includes lying by omission.

Now this is hilarious. You also have every reason to lie as scum. So... they cancel each other out.

Perhaps I'm a bit too confident, I mean I'm pretty damn certain if you gave me a vig ability in place of the town lynch and were able to keep me alive so instead of lynching each day I could shoot who *I* think is scum. Then in my opinion, we'd win, hands down, as town.

Also anyone have a problem with my associations list, go ahead and explain. But end game, if I can take the mafia traitor player, line him up to that list and see both of the other scum on it. Then ya'll gotta admit I at least know a thing or two about what I'm talking about even if at the time it doesn't make sense. (Sometimes it makes little sense to me, but experience dictates that if I think something someway, I better damn well say it while I have the chance because there's something right/not right about something that I'm speaking for/against).

[CommKnight]

Right now I can't formulate decent reads.

So vote Comm.

Or MMM or Xay. You know, vote the actual scum instead of obvious mislynch.

I'm not frustrated with being voted. I'm frustrated with people who think I'd actually play like I am as scum or that I'd be stupid enough not to have a real plan to get out of it. Like I draw attention to myself all the time. Especially when I'm VT. Which I should've took the shot on myself yesterday than mislynch Pyra, but I thought he might flip scum. Should've knew it was a mislynch by the ease in which it was to lynch him by.

@MMM, Xay & Fitz. What are ya'll gonna do when I flip town? Call my play bad? Or actually look over what I said and begin taking it a bit seriously? Because I'm not gonna let myself be killed to watch ya'll fuck around when I had scum in my crosshairs and you let them off because you think I'm a bad player. I don't want to be in the dead chat screaming at ya'll to look back at who I suspected because I was bloody right and ya'll too thick headed to actually admit I might have a shred of idea in what I'm doing.

I'm serious. What will you do when I flip town? Jerk each other off and say "yeah, he was a bad player, he wasn't scum hunting" or some other crud? Here's what I know: I'm town. That's it. Everything else is my trying to sort people. And if you don't expect me to bite when you're trying to mislynch me, you better damn well wear padded bloody gloves.

I've even tried to give MMM a chance, but he's already decided he wants to shove my thoughts to the side. If he is town, he's not gonna like the fact when he finds out he's not listening to a townie in exchange to probably listening to scum.

Give me an honest reason why MMM is town. Xay I understand his wagon was a bit easy (I'm kinda thinking it over in my head as well, but could be that Xay is the traitor and mafia don't realize it).

Also it's gone quiet. Scum is obvious happy to stick in the shadows if they're not among the ones talking against me now. I really don't want to be mislynched however to have silent town be played like a fiddle because they were too cowardly to speak up and be active and actually scum hunt and have a bloody opinion on people. You're not here to be buddies with everyone. There's 3 people here who want you dead. Figure it out and push them.

[CommKnight]

You've been negative this entire time. Of course I'm not going to think over anti-town play as being from a bad townie. You're anti-town. Thus you are gonna be scum and I'll be happy to hold your head high when you flip red MMM.

[CommKnight]

I thought Comm's case on Xay was solid

The VCA POE thing? That's a load of crap...even if it does wind up being correct. It's f'd up reasoning.

Comm...if you are town I will feel bad...I still think the points I have made towards you stand. If you are town though I will look over your reads in hindsight and give them more credence.

And I know you will. But I have doubt in some others bothering to reread what I've said.

Now here's another question. Out of all the choices for a N1 kill. Why would I off Gamma, who's slot I was openly not really TR'ing. Who I openly suspected FEC's early play as trolling scum. Yes, Gamma ended up being a PR, but someone who was trolling (and even banned from the site for such behaviour) could've just as easily been lying. So what motive did I really have to kill Gamma in the assumption that I am scum!Comm? You can't exactly say I'd have let my partners control the kill. I don't trust lurkers to make a good decision on kills.

One might say I could have thought this up to bring it up today to ask, but again. What motive would I have had to kill Gamma? Keep in mind he was voting Lowell before the day ended (after leaving my wagon once I claimed).

You have to be able to make an argument for that and believe in it that I would kill Gamma N1. Why not off someone like Aubrey, Shinobi or even you over Gamma?

[CommKnight]

I mean no offense to Gamma. He's a good player. But I think if it came down to it. I could easily cause his mislynch if I were scum and could play the cards I wanted to. So I wouldn't waste a kill on him. Especially N1 of all nights.

[CommKnight]

I want to see a vote count, because it's too quiet for the two top current wagons to be on scum. It's way too quiet.

[CommKnight]

I mean hell, I think MMM is being annoying scum when we are going at it. But honestly, the rest of the player base is really not adding much to it or putting their necks on the line. I mean hell, I'll at least give MMM credit for doing the dirty work required to TRY and mislynch me. There's at least action he's putting into it. The rest of ya lot feel like a peanut gallery. Which is making me wonder on MMM. You all seem happy to keep it me vs MMM but not bother scum hunting in the giant pile of players we still have. Just content with keeping it at two people.

@MMM, what do you have to say about that? Think scum is just content with leaving us go at each other?

[CommKnight]

[CommKnight]

Wait, we haven't even settled on a lynch and you're ready to go for D3?

He's set on getting me mislynched. Mislynching me now puts you at MYLO tomorrow.

[CommKnight]

VOTE: Xay - This is now self preservation since I know I'm town, but I know I did scum read Xay early D1 and through the mid-part. So better him than I in my shoes. Not like he or anyone is going to help me with MMM who I think has the bigger likelihood of flipping scum today.

[CommKnight]

Also consider this: Out of Xnad and Xay, Xnad is the one actively opposing me. With Aubrey AND Shin both willing to vote Xnad as well as Creature voting Xnad. I could easily push him back if I wanted to eliminate threats to myself.

But that's not my goal. My goal is to survive and find scum before they trick active town into caving in on each other easily.

[CommKnight]

I'm pretty sure they're both voting you.
And that's also a really weird way of talking about yourself.

They are, but Xnad is more vocal about it. Xay is more along for the ride.

Well, strategically, it makes zero sense to do what I'm doing if I were scum. Obviously no one else see's that so I must be the one to point it out as my own defense (again, no one else is really coming to my aid here, so I'm the only one who will ever state a defense on me).

That and it serves to see who ignores my arguments and keeps pushing regardless of what I say.

[CommKnight]

This is now self preservation since I know I'm town, but I know I did scum read Xay early D1 and through the mid-part.

Feeling like this wasn't your favorite lynch at all.

Who it was?

MMM would be preferable. I think I'm wrong about Xay from early D2. But if I was right, then it's better him than me.

[CommKnight]

I'm going to lurk about until Xay claims or until it gets too close to deadline.

Just turned the 24th for me. So besides tomorrow before work, I won't be around for the last 4-5 hours.

[CommKnight]

@Fitz, have you been reading what I've been saying? This is self preservation. Do not forget that. I know I'm town. But if there's a chance I was right about him being scum earlier. I'd rather him over me.

[CommKnight]

Well, I gotta run for work now and Xay hasn't done anything to make me want to even think about no-lynching over getting another flip. (Has he even bothered to claim?)

So hammer is up to you guys, but seems like quite a bit of resistance when scum could easily place a single vote on him and have him lynched. So you'd have to assume most of scum are already voting Xay or that Xay is in fact scum with his buddies not wanting/already bussing.

[CommKnight]

1.) Happy Birthday Shinobi.

2.) VOTE: Xay - Die scum.

3.) Off to work, be back later.

[CommKnight]

Or maybe I killed Creature because herp derp logic from yesterday that had people believing I'd kill Gamma (who also townread me and was not voting me). MAKES TOTAL SENSE GUIS.

But seriously. I'm not sure I can quite figure out why scum are killing who they're killing. Getting lucky it seems with PRs. Makes me wonder if they did recruit the traitor though.

Either way. Xay dies today and based on his flip will determine a lot of my following reads. If he flips red. I'd be pretty comfortable lynching in only: MMM, Fitz, Aubrey and Xnad. If he flips green. I'd prefer lynching in the pool outside of those four. But I do find it funny that from my list yesterday of potential partners. Creature was one of the ones that was outside of Xay's potential partners. I'm sorta wondering if they've been offing people who townread/willing to not lynch me in hopes to mislynch me?

[CommKnight]

Honestly this is boring me. Inb4 scum team is Xay, Aubrey and either Fitz or Xnad.

[CommKnight]

Don't take it to heart. It's gut. Too town/too highly townread is a thing. Something feels off about you and PoE might point you to being scum. But right now even if that's true, two others I'm looking for.

[CommKnight]

Well why haven't you been killed off Aubrey?

[CommKnight]

the possibilities of a watcher.

Nevermind, Aubrey is town, because reasons...

[CommKnight]

2) Then, the two Mafia Goons will have 72 hours to choose up to three additional modifiers. Their choices are:

- Bulletproof
- Role Cop
- JOAT (1-Shot Strongman, 1-Shot Ninja)
- Day Talk
- Traitor Recruitment

3) Then, for every modifier chosen + two guaranteed, town will receive power roles randomized from this list:

- Goon Cop
- Roleblocker
- Tracker
- Vigilante
- Innocent Child
- Bodyguard

[CommKnight]

I'll let someone else sell you on it. I can only tell you I'm town and I feel confident in Xay flipping red.

[CommKnight]

MMM....please go to Lowell or Comm.

If anyone can make a good case for why Lowell is town or Xay is scum I'd love to see them.

What the fuck is this Fitz? You ask MMM to do something you aren't even doing.

Honestly, I wouldn't vote Lowell because of how many people are against him. I would vote Lowell if it didn't seem majority of people simply want him dead.

My vote sticks though. Trying to lynch Xay is like trying to pull teeth and of course scum would want to MISLYNCH today (so they want someone other than Xay to eat rope today).

[CommKnight]

I also want to point out Xay hasn't posted in 8 days... Yet ya'll refuse to lynch his ass.

[CommKnight]

VOTE: Xay

L-1 if I'm not mistaken.

Now for someone to hammer and watch him flip Goon Cop just to spite me.

Honestly if he flips a PR, I'm fucking done...

[CommKnight]

@Mod: V/LA June 4-10th

[CommKnight]

Finally. Now to wait for the flip and hope it's red so we do not enter LYLO.

[CommKnight]

Man... if this flips scum, I'm locking Lowell in for town. Not budging on that either.

[CommKnight]

That and Boonskies likely town!

[CommKnight]

yeah sorry I know you were just about to post that awesome, gamebreaking thing any second now.

He even has until the mod flips it to post... this is 30+ mins after hammer.

[CommKnight]

Seriously. I want to know though if I was right in my hunch... Like, this could put town in a position to win this if this flips scum.

[CommKnight]

Pyra (7) - Creature, Aubrey, MMM, XnadrojX, CommKnight, Shinobi, Lowell <------ Lynch!
Lowell (4) - havingfitz, Pyra, Gamma Emerald, Boonskiies

Not Voting (1) - Xayzeck

Scum fucked up. We're looking for 3 people. They aren't all going to be on the same wagon, Pyra and Gamma are dead. Which means there is at least one scum in fitz, Boonskies and Xay. This is pretty much a guarantee (the traitor will be either or, but the two goons/PRs will be one and one). By not shooting into the Pyra wagon, they more or less gave one of their buddies no water to swim in.

On the Pyra wagon I'd say Creature Aubrey and Xnad are all town. Which leaves MMM, Shinobi and Lowell for another scum if my reads are right (I usually TR one scum so I won't say they're 100% off the list).

Now then, not-voting Pyra is probably the easiest of the two. Fitz seems to be townie this game and Boonskies is acting like tunneling noob-town. Which leaves VOTE: Xayzeck

Mistake #2 was letting me live past N1. Now it's time to do a clean sweep.

I'm just reposting this because herp derp. I WAS RIGHT.

[CommKnight]

Below is each player and possible associates based on vote counts so far (if you have a question, make is specific so I can answer it without confusion). Total number of possible associates will be in ()'s

Boonskiies

MMM, havingfitz, Shinobi, XnadrojX, Creature (5)

Lowell

CommKnight, Shinobi, Aubrey, Creature (4)

MMM

Boonskiies, havingfitz, Xayzeck, Aubrey, XnadrojX, Creature (6)

havingfitz

Boonskiies, MMM, CommKnight, Shinobi, Xayzeck, Aubrey, XnadrojX (7)

CommKnight

Lowell, havingfitz, Aubrey (3)

Shinobi

Boonskiies, havingfitz, XnadrojX, Creature (4)

Xayzeck

MMM, havingfitz, Aubrey, XnadrojX (4)

Aubrey

Lowell, MMM, havingfitz, CommKnight, Xayzeck, Creature (6)

XnadrojX

Boonskiies, MMM, havingfitz, Shinobi, Xayzeck, Creature (6)

Creature

Boonskiies, Lowell, MMM, Shinobi, Aubrey, XnadrojX (6)

- The above assumes scum buddies were never the first on their partner's wagon.
- The above excludes when they were at L3 and their buddies may then pile on.
- The above is not guaranteed, but may help find associates once we get a red flip.
- The above cannot take account for the goons voting for the traitor (but should account for traitor avoiding voting for the goons).

Now theoretically the above should not have someone on one's associates possible but not be on theirs. Also I know I can remove myself from those associates so for me, there's 1 less associate for each that has myself on it.

Currently under the circumstances it is my belief that if we get a red flip and refer back to this list, we can find at least one scum in the list. If they are the traitor then I'd say both scum are in the pool, otherwise... scum could have voted for traitor but will not have voted for their other partner. So the traitor is the only one who could mess up my list here.

Now how much anyone wants to bet that another scum is in the 4 people I put beside Xay for possible buddies?

I'll let ya'll dig it up, but I know there was some resistance D2 (which resulted in a NL) from lynching XAY...

[CommKnight]

VOTE: xnad
I stand by my earlier statements.

Fitz, why are you voting me?

Honestly, I like this vote. I was going to vote Xnad but wanted to see if someone else would without my push on him.

VOTE: Xnad - Die scum.

[CommKnight]

So recap of final votes for all 3 days.

Day 1

Pyra (7) - Creature, Aubrey, MMM, XnadrojX, CommKnight, Shinobi, Lowell

<------ Lynch!

Lowell (4) - havingfitz, Pyra, Gamma Emerald, Boonskiies

Not Voting (1) - Xayzeck

Day 2

Xayzeck (5) - Lowell, Boonskiies, Creature, CommKnight, Aubrey

<---- L-1!

CommKnight (4) - XnadrojX, MMM, havingfitz, Xayzeck
XnadrojX (1) - Shinobi

Day 3

Xayzeck (5) - CommKnight, MMM, Boonskiies, Aubrey, Lowell

<---- Lynch!

CommKnight (1) - XnadrojX

Not Voting (3) - havingfitz, Xayzeck, Shinobi

So a couple things: Definitely scum between MMM & Aubrey if VCA is any indicative (and I assume both would bus easily in that situation. Even D2 Aubrey was late on the Xay train).

The other thing, Xnad... you were on town 3 days in a row now bud, what do you got to say for yourself?

I still like fitz for town and even Shinobi, especially with his vote being placed on Xnad before I outed who I wanted to vote.

Honestly, scum, you fucked yourselves... AGAIN... You killed Boonskies, the one guy who could've been a mislynch. Lowell and I are basically hard Town-Cred now and you bloody shot Boonskies, of all the bloody people... Makes me wanna say Aubrey & Xnad for final two mafia. (Both are even on the Xay possible buddies I posted).

So... yeah... let's hang scum guys! They're making it too easy!

[CommKnight]

MMM
havingfitz
Shinobi
Aubrey
XnadrojX

^ I mean hell, 40% chance from a pot-shot to kill scum. Fitz & Shinobi are the more townie of the bunch. Unless both scum finally bussed Xay yesterday, then I believe full on it's Xnad & Aubrey/MMM. I'll be happy just getting 2 for 2 though.

[CommKnight]

@MMM, well personally I'm of the opinion of it being Xnad and either you or Aubrey for the third.

I mean it's possible either Shinobi or Fitz being one and then one in my other three. But I feel a bit more town lean on them with full town read on Lowell.

[CommKnight]

It wouldn't be stagnant if I had more time this week.

[CommKnight]

I truly expected Xay to be Town, and people constantly ignoring me was not helping.
If you looked thru my Day 3, you can see it mostly consisted of me asking why Xay wagon existed before frustratedly flopping a vote on CommKnight.

Over here, I think MMM is town, tonally he feels like he's gamesolving and his content isn't garbage.

I think I scumread CommKnigt here, last day felt bussing to me. Explaining more when I reach home.

You do realize I've been pushing Xay since the start of D2 right? Like I met resistance from people who wanted to vote anyone but.

[CommKnight]

Here's a few questions you can try to answer to help you find a better pool to lynch in.

- I was the one who said at least one scum wasn't on the Pyra wagon, now everyone but fitz is dead that wasn't on Pyra and we nailed the scum that wasn't on Pyra from the first person I was onto at the start of D2. (Why would I out that info?)

- Of the ones on Pyra, only Creature is dead, which I assume is because of the PR stuff if they do indeed have Rolecop, which should mean we got at least one more PR out there collecting information.

- The scum seem to be coordinated well enough that the traitor is not gonna be mislynched by them. (Which I already said, I wouldn't give town another PR just to have the traitor known to the goons).

I mean hell, right now with the information we know of scum. If they picked Day Talk, Recruit or Role Cop (Role Cop seems most likely at the very least). Then we should have a cop or vigilante out there. If there is a cop, he should now have 3 nights worth of results (even if 2 are dead) to help us find the pool to lynch in.

If there's a vig and we mislynch, we should probably give him the green light to shoot whoever they suspect tonight.

There is no IC, so we most likely got at least one of the above still active with us.

[CommKnight]

Of my reads, I'd say I hard TR Lowell, with TR (but not as hard) on Shinobi and Fitz. I think that MMM, Aubrey & Xnad has 100% at least one scum in it. If I am not incorrectly TR'ing Shinobi or Fitz, then it should have both of them in it.

[CommKnight]

As far as I understand it, Goon Cop in this set-up should be able to find any of the two STARTING goons. As well as the traitor IF he was recruited.

Otherwise it makes no sense to have a Goon Cop because Goons will just pick two PRs to avoid it.

[CommKnight]

@Mod: I've never played this set-up before honestly. But I'm curious about Goon-Cop. Let's say for instance that mafia pick Bulletproof and Role Cop. Now technically they aren't "Goon" anymore. So does Goon Cop become useless (Can't find either of them anymore?) Or is Goon Cop effective against them and only can't find Traitor?

The Goon Cop can only identify Mafia Goons.

This seems to indicate that mafia can avoid being detected by the Goon Cop by choosing PRs.

But it still makes zero sense. I take from that, that he just cannot see the traitor. Not that he can't see the PRs. If he can't see the PRs then the Goon Cop is essentially useless and you might as well pick 3 powers every single game as mafia because the Goon is shit.

[CommKnight]

Xnad town: Lowell -> havingfitz -> CommKnight -> Aubrey -> Shinobi
Xnad scum: CommKnight -> havingfitz -> Lowell -> Shinobi -> Aubrey

Have fun after I hopefully die tonight.

What exactly does this post mean? Just looks like a list of names written down in a random order.

Honestly, it looks like gibberish. I mean if he's scum, I'm town? But if he's town, Lowell's town? Or is it scum on the left? How the fuck does it make sense? The only two distinct groups are: Comm, fitz, Lowell.... and then Shinobi and Aubrey. With 2 trading spots from each pending Xnad's flip. To me it reads fake as fuck reads list.

[CommKnight]

It's a lynch order? Oh HEY, If Xnad is scum, Comm must've bussed both of his buddies for absolutely no reason. Are you trying to scum hunt anymore or just naturally dim?

[CommKnight]

That might make sense in LYLO. But where town still has one mislynch available to them (1.5 when I started on Xay)? Like there's paranoia, then there's you.

[CommKnight]

Still... you put me as top scum if he is scum... but if he's town, I'm in the middle... Like, where the hell is your brain at this day phase? Would it not make sense to want me dead more if he flipped TOWN rather than if I helped nab a SECOND scum?

[CommKnight]

Alright, we're at LYLO so not voting for now.

But I believe scum is MMM *OR* Shinobi and havingfitz *OR* Aubrey. (Meaning I do not believe either of the groups are both town/scum. There's one town and one scum in both duos).

I have to go because of a volunteer event this evening, but I'll be back tonight and definitely want to ISO Lowell to see if maybe he dropped hints into who he has checked thus far.

[CommKnight]

Also that goes for both of the other townies. DO NOT VOTE until we can all agree, because if any of us 3 are wrong, mafia can quick-hammer if they're online at the same time (hell they might even have day talk). Also Lowell being a PR confirms that they likely recruited the traitor. So day talk will only be possible if we have another PR among us 3.

[CommKnight]

Gotta love being the only one to actually read Xnad right.

Gotta love being the only one to TR Lowell correctly.

But there's also the fact scum would know who town are too. So only an accomplishment if you're town.

[CommKnight]

Your brain is melting MMM.

You ASSUME they have a role-cop. (Which is a pretty big assumption to make from town PoV). Also if there is indeed a role-cop, he must've did a very good job in deducing who his traitor is as they haven't been shot.

Also it's clear one of you or Shinobi is scum. But as I stated D2 that I don't believe both of you are scum together. Also Fitz and Aubrey have been so conveniently not suspected by anyone. Which sets off my radar. Now I'm a VT so everything is assumptions for me at this point. But here's what I'm willing to bet.

Traitor is between MMM and Shinobi and the other goon is either Fitz or Aubrey. I'll go one further and say it's either MMM and Aubrey or Fitz and Shinobi.

Scum only need to cause us to mislynch once, but we only need to be right once to possibly make this game solved.

Also no need to believe a vig claim, vig can probably take a shot tonight if there is one. But a vig claim would not get someone out of a lynch today, that's for sure.

Anyway, gonna go check Lowell's ISO for anything telling of a clear/scum reads.

[CommKnight]

I'm getting tired of people simply saying, "

there's not much to this lynch, blah blah blah

." How about you give me a reason to think he's town then. Just like with Xay I kept hearing, "

there isn't much to this lynch

" and look what happened.

If you're not for the lynch, figure out why you think he is likely to flip town and defend him. Otherwise find someone you think is scummier, vote them, and create a counter vote. *

looks at those not voting

*

Whoa look at aubrey getting all hot and bothered over here. Doesn't at all look fake. Good show, sir!

Xnad and aubrey is the answer, gang.

^ Wants Xnad & Aubrey. Xnad flipped town, but will Aubrey?

VOTE: MMM

Tonally he feels townish, but he looks like a busser given that votecount. And xay makes a lot of sense as a bus, I agree w/ fitz on that.

Suspected MMM as well.

Also no way was comm bussing on that one, so good on him, he's town.

Possible town check soft-claim?

I'm feeling confident one of Aubrey or MMM is scum. No way that was just all townbros putting that hot wagon together.

Oh look, Aubrey/MMM possible group and even the confidence is there.

[CommKnight]

Honestly, before scum can come in and manipulate and play the day out longer to trick town, I'm going to VOTE: Aubrey

1.) Either I'm right and this wagon will be slow.
2.) Or I'm wrong and the scum will quick-hammer if they're online at the same time.

But my vote is staying because

1.) He was on the Goon Cop's radar.
2.) He's on my radar.
3.) The cop ISO reads that he didn't check either Aubrey or Xnad so was sure scum was in one of them.

So moment of truth, I'm risking it all, sorry if I'm wrong, but I'm pushing this!

[CommKnight]

UNVOTE:

Honestly... been sitting here for a while now with that on copy/paste hoping to catch someone.

[CommKnight]

VOTE: MMM

Honestly, it's fake as fuck reactions from you and now with how long you've left your vote on me, you're either town that has officially fucked the game for town or scum who's hoping a townie will hop on so your buddy can quick-hammer.

[CommKnight]

For a proper answer, you need a proper question. I believe it's a MMM/Aubrey scum team. Shinobi and Fitz haven't peaked my radar for a while. But Aubrey's buddying and MMM's bad logic, put two and two together.

First MMM, then Aubrey. Let's do this town.

[CommKnight]

Go ahead and re-read Fitz. I feel pretty confident in this vote though. I feel less confident in the Fitz/Aubrey duo to find the scum in them. I feel more confident of MMM being scum over Shinobi though.

[CommKnight]

You placed your vote down onto me for hours today (risking both scum hopping on and hammering me if you walked away from the computer). In fact it's been on me for over a day now. With my vote on you, it means that there is scum between us because the scum still haven't hopped on and quick-hammered us. So what terrible logic is in my SR'ing you out of that? Either scum are slow-rolling us, or you are indeed scum. In which case you require a townie to vote me before you buddy hammers me.

[CommKnight]

Let's not forget who was late to the Xay wagon when we could've had him D2.

The no QH is what I'm calling you out on. If you are scum (Which I believe you are after all the previous days and today adding up), you require a townie to vote me before your buddy risks voting me (or else they out you both as the scum team if I'm not quick hammered directly after).

[CommKnight]

Point to it then MMM, show me where you "removed the fire" that would've had me lynched.

[CommKnight]

Where is Aubrey? I want to know what his reads are.

UNVOTE:

Because I can't react till after work.

[CommKnight]

I disagree that taking hard stances necessarily comes from town and keeping your options open comes from scum.
I agree with your points about activity/gamesolving since I've noted them earlier.
I'm just really unhappy with the way he's been doing things because it makes no sense.

The first line in this post is very very bad. Just a tip MMM. Scum find it harder to take a firm stance because they KNOW who town is. So they don't want to slip that they KNOW who town is which would lead to outing them by trying to keep their options open because it's hard for them to have a town PoV when they know who is town and who isn't.

Also...the fact you guys have been 1v1 for so long probably means at least one of you is scum. You def aren't both town.

I've been waiting to see whether Aubrey or Shin post something as blatantly opportunist as this, but since neither has so far, I can't be sure of which of them is scum with fitz.

Now this post I like and actually yeah, I can see Fitz being scummy. I think I had Fitz and Shinobi as the duo of either of them are scum with MMM and Aubrey being the duo if one of you are scum.

The other thing is Shinobi, MMM and Aubrey have all been on around the same time as each other. So if we go back to my theory that MMM pointed to and I say MMM is town (for now while I at least look for the other one). That means that the only duo who hasn't been on to hammer is Aubrey and Fitz together.

That and Fitz has been skirting around a hard read today. Not willing to vote is one thing, it's very risky today to be wrong and be on there for more than a couple hours.

So to clarify, I think Aubrey and Fitz are a possible duo now, but MMM and Fitz still isn't.

So for me there's just a few possibilities.

- Aubrey/Fitz
- Shinobi/Fitz
- Aubrey/MMM

^ So of the above 3 possibilities, Aubrey and Fitz are in two of them. Which means on a random grouping guess, we'd have a 66%chance of killing scum if we kill either Fitz or Aubrey where as if we lynch Shinobi or MMM it's only 33% chance.

Right now, I think I'd lean a Fitz vote. MMM has gained some Town Cred lately so the Aubrey/MMM duo is a little less likely. But the other two both contain Fitz. So chances are Fitz will flip scum.

Any more cases/objections/reads to bring forth?

[CommKnight]

I disagree that taking hard stances necessarily comes from town and keeping your options open comes from scum.
I agree with your points about activity/gamesolving since I've noted them earlier.
I'm just really unhappy with the way he's been doing things because it makes no sense.

The first line in this post is very very bad. Just a tip MMM. Scum find it harder to take a firm stance because they KNOW who town is. So they don't want to slip that they KNOW who town is which would lead to outing them by trying to keep their options open because it's hard for them to have a town PoV when they know who is town and who isn't.

In my most recent scum game I've gained some of the easiest town cred of my entire life by posting reads without a request and including hard stances (albeit admittedly not overly many). I don't know about what other people do as scum, but assuming that scum will always do X and avoid Y is a terrible fallacy imo and I've already lost games as town because of it.

I'm very untraditional in my approach (which gets me into some shit sometimes). But I do agree. it's not foolproof, but it does provide some evidence if it stacks with other similar scummy traits.

[CommKnight]

Scum just need to be online at the same time with a townie voting another townie to quick-hammer. I mean sure, it's a risk, but when I replaced in as scum on Civilization and we had Day-chat, we quick-hammered the fuck out of town's LYLO mistake and it took 3 votes.

[CommKnight]

So how do people feel about a Fitz flip?

[CommKnight]

VOTE: Fitz

Gonna have to risk it sooner or later.

[CommKnight]

I swear to fuck if Shinobi/MMM is the duo I'm gonna shoot myself by the way.

[CommKnight]

Yeah, his attempt to remain neutral earlier today did not go unnoticed.

[CommKnight]

Well if we are right, then we gotta wait for Aubrey or MMM to vote him.

[CommKnight]

Also the fact MMM didn't hammer yet means fitz ain't town with a Aubrey/MMM duo, so that duo can officially be ruled out. So can a MMM/Shinobi duo. But a MMM/Fitz duo remains possible.

[CommKnight]

Aubrey/Shinobi
Aubrey/MMM
Shinobi/MMM

are all rules out.

So what remains is:

Aubrey/Fitz
MMM/Fitz
Shinobi/Fitz (in the case of bussing on lylo for town-cred)

That is legit the ONLY possibilities I see left which means Fitz is indeed scum. As all 3 involve him now. With MMM's slow roll, I'd say MMM stands a chance of being the final scum.

[CommKnight]

Like legit, my vote on MMM might've been risky earlier, but it helped solve out the Shinobi/Aubrey duo possibility. Fitz at L2 rules out MMM/Shinobi and MMM/Aubrey as both would assume Fitz is town and MMM would have no reason to wait to hammer.

3 possibilities then remain, all with Fitz and one other!

[CommKnight]

So do I gotta wait for flip for see if this is scum or is scum gonna say "Haha, got you"?

[CommKnight]

Well you might actually be scum MMM. I'd be surprised if I am not killed tonight.

[CommKnight]

SHIT! I was right about the Shin OR MMM and Aubrey OR Fitz thing though. Just picked the wrong bloody pairings!!! D:

[CommKnight]

Nah it's game. GG everyone.

SHINOBI. we. could. have. quick. hammered. LOLOL. I was hinting so hard. I actually began to suspect that MMM was my partner since it didn't happen. I had no clue who my scum buddy was going into today other than Fitz being town. I was leaning you being my buddy upon entering until my quick hammer hints went un-noticed.

Like if you tried to quick-hammer MMM I would've pulled off because I was watching the thread for a vote when I had it on him.

So I guess good thing Shinobi ignored the hints. XD

[CommKnight]

Honestly though, Fitz AFK stuff didn't really help town much though. He stayed too neutral for LYLO situation and kept his options way too open.

[CommKnight]

Haha, if MMM was watching the thread at all, he could've pulled off as well. Guess I should've held my vote on Aubrey at the beginning of the day.

[CommKnight]

LOL, no hard feelings eh Shinobi? I was right to push back onto you D1. But I shouldn't have moved on. I was just sure of Xay and then Xnad, then Fitz when he went quiet. (Should've kept my TR's I had on them both from D1).

[CommKnight]

Even right D1/D2 about scum between Shinobi/MMM and the other being town. *Hint: I need to listen to my early D1 reads more* XD

[CommKnight]

Thinking back about the reads I was right on but didn't follow through with is painful.

Feeling the same. 20/20 vision into the past is a bitch eh?

[CommKnight]

Honestly though, I should've seen something fishy in both Shinobi and Aubrey downright TR'ing me on LYLO so easily. I mean sure, it's not hard for town to deduce my actions as being town-motivated, but they wrote me off as a TR too easily.

[CommKnight]

Don't take it to heart. It's gut. Too town/too highly townread is a thing. Something feels off about you and PoE might point you to being scum. But right now even if that's true, two others I'm looking for.

Well why haven't you been killed off Aubrey?

@MMM, remember these? XD

[CommKnight]

Off to work now, haha, can't wait to see dead thread though. Wonder how many were yelling at me.

[CommKnight]

Yeah sub outs get annoying. Also LOL at the mod not even posting the death scene yet and we're already talking about the game in post-game way. XD It was a good game though, nothing too toxic. Unfortunately I experienced a very recent game that got toxic because I decided to day-vig. D1 fairly early (and troll who I thought were scum after it). It got pretty heated and I had to leave the conversation both before their flip and during post-game because I try to leave feelings at the door. What makes it worse is it was a hydra of 15 players. So of course I gotta listen to about 4+ people trying to tell me I'm shit for shooting them.

We had a solid plan and it failed. But it's the way some games go. You win some, you lose some. Honestly, I know there's good people on this site, plus some pretty tough skin and I know if those people did that to a newbie, they'd never bloody return.

Honestly, glad this game didn't get toxic. I mean hell, here MMM and I are going post-game being "Oh, that's where I took the wrong turn." Not bitching at each other for a fuck-up.

[CommKnight]

Yeah, seeing how Goon Cop can't catch the original goons (with extra powers) and making the goon cop useless. That's a pretty bad role to have in a set-up like this. No point in the mafia ever NOT taking the PRs.

But dang, losing our PRs early did suck.

[CommKnight]

Yeah, I was of the assumption that they recruited the traitor since they never hit him at night. Also I mean we're not perfect. No one knew the full scum team. We all had suspicions on them at one point or another. But we didn't hard-push them relentlessly.