Open 691: Jungle Republic (ENDGAME)

[MMM]

@NTRP

VOTE: Almost50 for not being a good mod and renaming his thread and

screwing up vote counts/people on them

I know it's not giving anything away. But PLEASE do not discuss ongoing games. I'd rather stomp this out now before it does become something.

[MathBlade]

okay nvm we arent hypoingbseer? I thought the point was if Seer dies we can atleast know some inno's without Seer outing themselves.

Dunkers what about my post pings you? So far ur voting reasons have been pretty shit but that seems to be your meta based on the newbie game we r in.

We aren't doing that because it only tells us who isn't a werewolf doesn't discuss who is or isn't Mafia and only tells the werewolf who to kill. Waaay too many downsides.

[Vedith]

VOTE: Math

Out of Titus and A50, I town read A50.

Easy game, easy money.

[MMM]

VOTE: Math

Out of Titus and A50, I town read A50.

Easy game, easy money.

How did you come to the conclusion that one of them is scum?

[MMM]

That reminded me there was something I wanted to address but completely forgot to.

Vote MMM

For what reason are you voting me? Did you not have any better scum reads at the time you voted me than a completely inactive slot? Or did you just want to see where it goes? Or is it about something else entirely?

[Vedith]

How did you come to the conclusion that one of them is scum?

Because I didn't read it as TvT.

[Almost50]

Frankly my reads are shit this game (that was demonstrated on D1). I'd sheep anyone I TR, but I would rather lynch off the D1 lynch wagon (because I'm still of the opinion lynching the WW is better than lynching Mafia today to stop the NK).

Now let me elaborate: The only night action we have are the Seer check and the WW NK. With the 2nd WW lynched we have no night action (technically we do, because the Seer is alive, but we know they can't get any positives anymore, so..). This means the game becomes nightless, but we have control over it all.

I can see Wisdom's PoV (WW may shoot Mafia), but we have no guarantee of that happening. In fact, we have 6 T vs 3 M vs 1 WW now, and if we lynch Mafia then the WW has a 3:1 hitting Town still. Doesn't make me want them alive myself.

On the other hand, if we do lynch the WW the Seer can safely claim and become an IC, which is good for us already. So, lynch the WW >> prevent the NK + gain an IC.

>For me< the lynch pool is in Math, Bins & MMM and I suspect Math the most out of the 3 (I'm assuming the 2nd WW didn't bus and Titus looked like she tried to support my push on Wisdom to build a counter wagon to TheBrie's, so I'm voting their).

VOTE: Mathblade

[Vedith]

On the other hand, if we do lynch the WW the Seer can safely claim and become an IC, which is good for us already. So, lynch the WW >> prevent the NK + gain an IC.

[NotTheRealPaul]

okay nvm we arent hypoingbseer? I thought the point was if Seer dies we can atleast know some inno's without Seer outing themselves.

Dunkers what about my post pings you? So far ur voting reasons have been pretty shit but that seems to be your meta based on the newbie game we r in.

We aren't doing that because it only tells us who isn't a werewolf doesn't discuss who is or isn't Mafia and only tells the werewolf who to kill. Waaay too many downsides.

alright.

@a50 im not in your lynchpool because you stopped scumreading me or because you dont think im WW? Just to clarify.

[MathBlade]

Frankly my reads are shit this game (that was demonstrated on D1). I'd sheep anyone I TR, but I would rather lynch off the D1 lynch wagon (because I'm still of the opinion lynching the WW is better than lynching Mafia today to stop the NK).

Now let me elaborate: The only night action we have are the Seer check and the WW NK. With the 2nd WW lynched we have no night action (technically we do, because the Seer is alive, but we know they can't get any positives anymore, so..). This means the game becomes nightless, but we have control over it all.

I can see Wisdom's PoV (WW may shoot Mafia), but we have no guarantee of that happening. In fact, we have 6 T vs 3 M vs 1 WW now, and if we lynch Mafia then the WW has a 3:1 hitting Town still. Doesn't make me want them alive myself.

On the other hand, if we do lynch the WW the Seer can safely claim and become an IC, which is good for us already. So, lynch the WW >> prevent the NK + gain an IC.

>For me< the lynch pool is in Math, Bins & MMM and I suspect Math the most out of the 3 (I'm assuming the 2nd WW didn't bus and Titus looked like she tried to support my push on Wisdom to build a counter wagon to TheBrie's, so I'm voting their).

VOTE: Mathblade

You're also doing VCA assuming what you think scum did rather than letting the votes talk. See Mastina's guide for all the things bad about it.

Your reads are still shit.

[Almost50]

okay nvm we arent hypoingbseer? I thought the point was if Seer dies we can atleast know some inno's without Seer outing themselves.

Dunkers what about my post pings you? So far ur voting reasons have been pretty shit but that seems to be your meta based on the newbie game we r in.

We aren't doing that because it only tells us who isn't a werewolf doesn't discuss who is or isn't Mafia and only tells the werewolf who to kill. Waaay too many downsides.

alright.

@a50 im not in your lynchpool because you stopped scumreading me or because you dont think im WW? Just to clarify.

The latter

[Dunkerdoodles]

okay nvm we arent hypoingbseer? I thought the point was if Seer dies we can atleast know some inno's without Seer outing themselves.

Dunkers what about my post pings you? So far ur voting reasons have been pretty shit but that seems to be your meta based on the newbie game we r in.

We aren't doing that because it only tells us who isn't a werewolf doesn't discuss who is or isn't Mafia and only tells the werewolf who to kill. Waaay too many downsides.

alright.

@a50 im not in your lynchpool because you stopped scumreading me or because you dont think im WW? Just to clarify.

The latter

does paul read maf to you?

[Tails]

That reminded me there was something I wanted to address but completely forgot to.

Vote MMM

For what reason are you voting me? Did you not have any better scum reads at the time you voted me than a completely inactive slot? Or did you just want to see where it goes? Or is it about something else entirely?

A little of column A, little of column B. Your slot was the only one that hadn't posted anything substantial, and I wanted to see what shook out. I'm still not convinced you're town, though. And I'm too preoccupied by rl matters to decide if there's a better place to move my vote. Maybe later tonight or Monday.

[Tails]

@Vedith: What about Titus/Almost read TvS?

@Almost: I'm not sure I see the benefit of trying to push Wisdom as a counter if Titus was Brie's partner. Wisdom was not a good counterwagon, and Titus is smart enough as scum to see that it would never go through. She would have bussed in that situation over pushing Wisdom. The only way Titus-scum pushes Wisdom over Brie is if she thought Brie really was town and was trying to avoid the blowback. I mean, it's still not a smart move, and she could have easily continued to push Dunker for the same results. Titus as town is hardheaded enough to try to go for a Wisdom lynch, because she's not thinking of another agenda and there is a real playstyle clash there.
tldr - I really don't see what Titus has to gain as scum by pushing Wisdom, and I think she's game minded enough as scum to avoid that push.

[Almost50]

okay nvm we arent hypoingbseer? I thought the point was if Seer dies we can atleast know some inno's without Seer outing themselves.

Dunkers what about my post pings you? So far ur voting reasons have been pretty shit but that seems to be your meta based on the newbie game we r in.

We aren't doing that because it only tells us who isn't a werewolf doesn't discuss who is or isn't Mafia and only tells the werewolf who to kill. Waaay too many downsides.

alright.

@a50 im not in your lynchpool because you stopped scumreading me or because you dont think im WW? Just to clarify.

The latter

does paul read maf to you?

He probably is. Not a confident read, but he fits the profile. Then again, I think I'm having trouble reading him still.. his style isn't exactly clear cut.

[Almost50]

@Vedith: What about Titus/Almost read TvS?

@Almost: I'm not sure I see the benefit of trying to push Wisdom as a counter if Titus was Brie's partner. Wisdom was not a good counterwagon, and Titus is smart enough as scum to see that it would never go through. She would have bussed in that situation over pushing Wisdom. The only way Titus-scum pushes Wisdom over Brie is if she thought Brie really was town and was trying to avoid the blowback. I mean, it's still not a smart move, and she could have easily continued to push Dunker for the same results. Titus as town is hardheaded enough to try to go for a Wisdom lynch, because she's not thinking of another agenda and there is a real playstyle clash there.
tldr - I really don't see what Titus has to gain as scum by pushing Wisdom, and I think she's game minded enough as scum to avoid that push.

In my experience, Titus does not bus and will try everything to save her one and only p.

[Tails]

And why would she push Wisdom instead of any of the other potential counter wagons? Even Titus is intelligent enough as scum to know that wagon wouldn't go anywhere. There's no way that action would have saved her partner.

[CommKnight]

Now let me elaborate: The only night action we have are the Seer check and the WW NK. With the 2nd WW lynched we have no night action (technically we do, because the Seer is alive, but we know they can't get any positives anymore, so..). This means the game becomes nightless, but we have control over it all.

I'm going to ask this now since this would effect some mechanics and I need to green-light this with everyone before it was even attempted. (That means ALL living players would have to agree).

In the event of the final WW dying at any point in the rest of the game, would town & mafia be good with a nightless game? This would mean that mafia chat would become Day-Talk and it would be updated in the OP to state this change, the reason for it and that all living at the time agreed to it.

So don't do it right now, but in the event of the final WW dying at any point in this game, at THAT time send me a PM whether you agree to the above or not. Remember it requires everyone to agree to it that is alive at the time. So even one no in PM and it will remain 48 hour nights with mafia only having night talk.

[Wisdom]

mod, its an open setup; game becomes nightless when wws are dead regardless of whether we agree or not

[Wisdom]

Im not lynching Math

Vedith confirmed his place in my lynchpool with recent posts

[CommKnight]

mod, its an open setup; game becomes nightless when wws are dead regardless of whether we agree or not

Well you see, mafia have night chat, as per the open set-up. Just because the wolves die does not make it auto-nightless due to this mechanic. I'd effectively have to change how mafia chat works if players agree to the proposed idea of turning mafia chat on during the day. This of course is no light thing to change willy-nilly so I'd need full agreement from all living players. Due to how mafia chat works, that is the key mechanic what would have to be changed to make say D4 go onto D5 with no N4 if it were agreed to have the night completely removed in the event of the final werewolf dying.

Also if you check the open set-up wiki, there is no clear indication on whether it's standard to go nightless or not in that scenario.

[MMM]

That reminded me there was something I wanted to address but completely forgot to.

Vote MMM

For what reason are you voting me? Did you not have any better scum reads at the time you voted me than a completely inactive slot? Or did you just want to see where it goes? Or is it about something else entirely?

A little of column A, little of column B. Your slot was the only one that hadn't posted anything substantial, and I wanted to see what shook out. I'm still not convinced you're town, though. And I'm too preoccupied by rl matters to decide if there's a better place to move my vote. Maybe later tonight or Monday.

Fair nuff.

@Vedith: What about Titus/Almost read TvS?

@Almost: I'm not sure I see the benefit of trying to push Wisdom as a counter if Titus was Brie's partner. Wisdom was not a good counterwagon, and Titus is smart enough as scum to see that it would never go through. She would have bussed in that situation over pushing Wisdom. The only way Titus-scum pushes Wisdom over Brie is if she thought Brie really was town and was trying to avoid the blowback. I mean, it's still not a smart move, and she could have easily continued to push Dunker for the same results. Titus as town is hardheaded enough to try to go for a Wisdom lynch, because she's not thinking of another agenda and there is a real playstyle clash there.
tldr - I really don't see what Titus has to gain as scum by pushing Wisdom, and I think she's game minded enough as scum to avoid that push.

I agree with this. If her sub out is at all alignment indicative in this case I believe it'll be because she's disappointed in her read of Brie anyway, so at the very least I doubt she's WW, and most likely her slot is town.

Now let me elaborate: The only night action we have are the Seer check and the WW NK. With the 2nd WW lynched we have no night action (technically we do, because the Seer is alive, but we know they can't get any positives anymore, so..). This means the game becomes nightless, but we have control over it all.

I'm going to ask this now since this would effect some mechanics and I need to green-light this with everyone before it was even attempted. (That means ALL living players would have to agree).

In the event of the final WW dying at any point in the rest of the game, would town & mafia be good with a nightless game? This would mean that mafia chat would become Day-Talk and it would be updated in the OP to state this change, the reason for it and that all living at the time agreed to it.

So don't do it right now, but in the event of the final WW dying at any point in this game, at THAT time send me a PM whether you agree to the above or not. Remember it requires everyone to agree to it that is alive at the time. So even one no in PM and it will remain 48 hour nights with mafia only having night talk.

I would far prefer a nightless game in this event as opposed to having to spend 48 hours doing nothing.

[MMM]

Random realisation, but I quoted the wrong VC in 434 somehow.

[MMM]

{Wisdom, Almost50}
{Tails}
{MathBlade}
{Dunkerdoodles, Bins, Vedith}
{NotTheRealPaul, GinghamDog}

VOTE: GinghamDog

I think exactly one of Dunkerdoodles and NTRP is newbtown and the other is scum along with the other 3 scum slots I listed. And I'd need a lot of convincing if anyone wants me to scumread one of the townslots/MathBlade.

[Wisdom]

correct, dunker is towb and ntrp isnt