Kingdom Hearts - Game Over

[plantsy]

Imperium, we're really excited to be playing with you again and we are hoping to pick up where we left off at the end of last time and be an unstoppable town force together by the start of day 2. Please be town!!!


I am okay with mastina and Creature so far.

I think I'm okay with Rylai and Lina so far too. Either that or I'm just excited about their proposed change in playstyle!

Don't like mhsmith answering a question with a question in 63. Looking at it again this is mitigated by it being that Keyskiies was asking Rylai and Lina, not mhsmith but it feels like he's butting in.

"It feels forced" is not even an accusation

I read it as an accusation, too. Usually when someone says "it feels forced", they mean something like "town doesn't have to force things, they just have the reads they have." What did you mean by it instead?

It's not even post 100. I'd be surprised if anyone had any decent logic yet. The best post in this game so far I've seen is Yume's.

Which one?

I guess I don't really understand this? Like, what I'm currently doing is pushing people to explain their reads on her, and then from there I see what they say. Like, I could certainly see eventually attacking ppl for town reads on her, especially if they're particularly bad or lazy townreads, but that's kinda the cart before the horse I think.

It feels like you're constructing a narrative in which mastina is scum and you're looking at everybody else through the light of mastina and all of your reads are based on mastina and their interactions with her. It feels really one dimensional and easy.

VOTE: mhsmith0

everything else is noise right now.

Happy birthday, Frozen!

[plantsy]

Ah okay, thanks for explaining! I understand what you're saying now. I feel differently about her posting style than you do but I'll get out of your way with her and come back to it after she's responded to you.

[plantsy]

I'm not really versed enough in smith's meta to accurately parse his mastina scumlean the way that it was stated felt vaguely stiff to me on a first pass. I'm not really surprised at all by the way that he's picking apart various arguments with a fine-tooth comb here and I don't see any strong reason right now why this comes from scum but it does feel vaguely like a performance and I'm conflicted by the awareness of the beginning of a desire to lynch smith and the knowledge that that desire may in fact mean that he is Town. I basically agree with the stance already given on the slot.

Something about mastina feels vaguely off to me so far but I like the fact that she scumread Overlord for saying she couldn't read him.

First RC post reads as Town but I don't have a definitive read yet.

Fire-chan is obviously scum.

[plantsy]

but I like the fact that she scumread Overlord for saying she couldn't read him.

?

Feels like something that town!mastina would scumread for and she didn't make a show of it, it just happened, and happened without any apparent hesitation or desire to appease or discredit or toy with. I don't necessarily agree with scumreading that post (even if I could easily see myself scumreading Overlord overall in the near future) but I can get why she would and I definitely wouldn't townread the post even if I don't entirely think that it's a likely thing for scum to blurt out as a second post with how weirdly specific it is. I'm mainly discounting the first post in my analysis because I think that the second one is more interesting.

[plantsy]

Imperium, we're really excited to be playing with you again and we are hoping to pick up where we left off at the end of last time and be an unstoppable town force together by the start of day 2. Please be town!!!

Nancy and Plotinus!

We are town. I hope you're town too and we all click like last time. Also, I'm feeling a little jealous that we've been talking about hydrating for a while now and never have

Anyway, I literally just searched to see if anyone talked to us yet and that's all, and when I saw it was you guys that reached out I couldn't not say hi.

I am pretty busy at the moment, so you probably won't see much of me for the first half? of day one. I don't know we'll see how that goes, but now that I see you guys are here I'll try to make time. I imagine nacho will be poking his head in here in the next day or so though.

Hi Tammy! It's good to see you! I am still looking forward to hydraing with you now that I'm back. Let's wait a bit until we both have time to put our hearts into the game. I think one large at a time is about my limit right now and I'm going to be a bit all over the place until July, but then we should definitely start looking for something for sure.

pedit @Leonshade: no, this is Plotinus and the first couple posts were me too but the couple posts before this one were nancy.

[plantsy]

JaeReed sweetheart I am a very very different player from the last time you rolled scum so you don't have to worry about anything. I promise you that Civ mafia is long gone history, I was a newb there and I couldn't separate my emotions from the game in a way that made me extremely vulnerable to emotional manipulation but neither of those things are true about me anymore as I am sure you will see over the course of this game (I know I've told you, but I don't think you'll truly believe until you see it). The fact of the matter is that no one here except Plotinus, Tammy and Nacho have seen me in my current meta when I am taking a game seriously and even they have not seen it fully at work. The short answer is, I love you and don't be afraid of hurting me because I promise you actually just can't <3

[plantsy]

I have a vote to put down but I need permission from Plotinus first

[plantsy]

I remember <3

I do agree, yes

[plantsy]

It isn't as strong a read for me as it seems to be for mastina but you do seem to be disengaged from the game in a way that doesn't quite add up to me given this playerlist and your responses so far feel lacking in emotion to me and somewhat like scum making a legalistic defense akin to the way scum caught for wrong reasons do (but I don't think the reasons are wrong here).

[plantsy]

JaeReed is actually my strongest scumread.
My REAL strongest scumread.

[plantsy]

I really don't feel you doing any sorting here Jae.

[plantsy]

What's your read on R&L?

Town. The foundation of my read there would be that I think that she's scumhunting and actively trying to understand other players and I think that the way that she's been flailing in the midst of that demonstrates the aloneness and directionlessness that is the hallmark of being uninformed. I think that if she were attempting a different playstyle the way she is as scum then she would potentially be displaying signs of cognitive dissonance and tonally would be awkward and off-kilter but I don't get either of those feelings from her and I don't get the sense that she's having to force behavior or is even particularly mindful of her own behavior at any point in her ISO. I think she correctly identifies a bullshit argument and puts a vote on it in a way that doesn't actually feel like OMGUS or a scum-motivated vote but rather just pushing on something she genuinely belives to be scummy - it doesn't feel like a "justified vote".

I also think that the way that she finds the focus on her Loved claim to be somewhat ridiculous is vaguely suggestive of a Town mindset because I think that her focus is on parsing actually alignment indicative information rather than wasting time on something that is functionally useless (and testing the Loved is absolutely useless and most likely just a cheap pawn for scum to push to make it look like they're doing anything remotely gamesolve-y without actually doing anything). I don't think that she makes this post in the way that does if she's scum - it gives me the feeling that she is approaching the game from the mindset of wanting to parse motivation. I'd expect her to make more noise about Gamma's bad vote if she were scum, for instance, rather than continue to engage with the thread on a no-agenda basis.

I don't think her push on mastina for NAI reasons is particularly indicative of anything except lack of familiarity with meta and I don't get the feeling that she's trying to stretch her concerns with mastina into scumread, they feel specific and driven enough that I think she is actually trying to parse this from mastina and work through what feel like legitimate issues to her. I don't think that there's much of an angle here as scum to push mastina on producing fluff given how well-known her meta is and I don't get the sense that she's trying to actively discredit mastina to neutralize a potential threat (I don't think that's the play here as scum anyway). It feels much more like confusion and incapacity than any kind of an agenda or a stance that she's forcing.

I like her reaction here as a "what the fuck that ain't right" moment that is something that scum have to fake and this doesn't feel faked in any meaningful way to me. I also like her engagement with the push from RC in the way that it feels like she is actively trying to understand their position and not pushing self-serving narrative to kill the push - she feels invested in the sorting value this interaction has. I'm not sure why she mentions me here but I'm guessing she thought that I made one of Plotinus' posts. Overall the push on her is pretty bad and I think that the way she responds even in her exasperated moments by not throwing shit at it but actually trying to reason shit out and make herself understood is something that I like a lot coming from Town.

[plantsy]

You, on the other hand, might be scum.

I also tentatively think that this is something that comes from scum!Jae over town!Jae for meta reasons - Jae is somewhat crippled by their inability to read me and I don't think that the attitude shown here displays that mindset at all.

[plantsy]

VOTE: RC

No I do not scumread KeySkiies.

[plantsy]

Why do you scumread Radiant?

I think you are quite aware that I soulread RC.

[plantsy]

No, it's because I'm positive that nancy would try to mislynch me as scum and with the fight that just happened she would get away with it and pawning it off on the fighting between me and R&L.

That would actually be a complete strategic blunder because it is common knowledge that you rage when people try to lynch you and given my soulread I would be thrown under a huge amount of suspicion with an RC townflip. If I wanted you out of the game as scum I would obviously just NK you. Also, I wanted to vote you as of 331 but I had to talk to Plotinus for permission first because I knew that doing this would cause what is happening now from you and we had to be on the same page as far as what the consequences would be for this Day.

I'm probably not going to talk to you much further today because you're toxic right now and I don't want to feed into that, but I don't plan on moving my vote until you are lynched. Sorry it had to be this way.

[plantsy]

RC why do you think I voted you in 375?

[plantsy]

Never played with Nancy, surprised that Plot went along with that without any further justification but policy voting soul reads is stupid, even if the read itself was silly.

Not policy voting; that was Ramcius putting words into our mouths. I'm hydraing with nancy because I think she's great and so of course I'm going to listen to her reads and allow her to pursue them. Why does it surprise you that I say yes when my hydra partner says "I think x is scum can I vote them?" I agree with you about mhsmith btw, I was voting him earlier but he didn't respond to it at all, maybe he didn't think I was serious. I'm null on mastina at the moment, but my mhsmith scumread makes more sense if she's town and somewhat less sense if she's scum because of what I was talking about earlier about him setting up a narrative. Like I think it would make less sense if they were scum together to come out the gate all deliberate-like going "okay so assuming my buddy is scum, who makes sense as her buddy." So it felt like a push on town from someone who knows she's town.

As for mastina I don't feel like she's done anything that I'd recognise as alignment indicative yet -- she posted a wall; she does that. She talks about herself; she does that. She's got page 1 superserious reads; that's her thing. If someone wants to talk about something that isn't just bogstandard mastina's playstyle then okay but for she's null to me right now and nobody has raised points against her that I find compelling. My read on her is "slight lean town because I don't think mhsmith is bussing her and I have a scumlean on him."



I've been reading and rereading the thread because something pinged me and then I couldn't find it anywhere so maybe I had a weird mafia dream or something (if I find it, I'll say what it was, but there's no point in attacking somebody because I dreamed they posted something that doesn't exist in their ISO) and I posted some in my hydra PT this morning but I feel like I never quite woke up today and then I spent three hours with the mathemakitten at the vet because he's got a UTI and sand in his bladder or how you call it in English, the stuff the bladder stones come from. So I'm going to be distracted for a couple days till he's feeling better but I'm still here and reading and thinking and stuff.

[plantsy]

VOTE: Plancy

i'm not a fan of things like soulread, i simply don't trust in them, and PL someone because of that is scummy enough on build wagon on them

What does "PL" mean, if it doesn't mean "policy lynch"?

[plantsy]

oh, you're saying that itlepip was saying that you were policy voting us because nancy had a soulread? I think I misunderstood it earlier. I think you're right about what itlepip was saying.

[plantsy]

VOTE: Plancy

i'm not a fan of things like soulread, i simply don't trust in them¹, and PL² someone³ because of that⁴ is scummy enough on build wagon on them⁵

What does "PL" mean, if it doesn't mean "policy lynch"?

actually i still think i don't understad this post. CAn you expand the abbreviation and replace pronouns with nouns?

1. who is them?
2. what is PL?
3. who is someone?
4. what is that?
5. who are them?

[plantsy]

I just meant that your playstyle is very much distinct from 'x is a soulread', so I was hoping that there more logic behind it

ah, yeah. That makes sense. nancy is better at reading tone than I am, so her strengths come into full force earlier than mine do. You'll see logic and walls and cases from me for sure but I'm still getting a feel for everybody and deciding what I think.

I keep staring off into space so I'm going to go to bed.

pedit: thank you! Sometimes I just look at a sentence and I try to read it and my brain is like "yes those are english words" but doesn't decipher it and it's annoying. I think understand what you're saying now. Soulread just means you know somebody really well so they can't hide from you, or they can't hide from you for very long because you'll figure them out, but you do you.

[plantsy]

JaeReed instead of fake gamesolving around a narrative where I am scumbuds with FA, why don't you do any actual scumhunting and express why you scumread either of us?

While you're at it feel free to explain why you seem so convinced that we're teamed and yet are calling for votes Leonshade for as yet unstated reasons.

[plantsy]

JaeReed your scumgame is really obvious because all you're doing is trying to manipulate people into agreeing with your narrative while trying to pass it off as trying to being active and cooperative or promote synergy but anything that contradicts that narrative is something you're intent on ignoring. You've not actually done any scumhunting, your townread on mastina started super super awkward and you're now trying to back it up with ad-hoc stuff that makes sense on a surface level but is actually just fake because you're specifically taking the interpretation you want to fit your read while ignoring the rest. You're asking a ton of questions to make it look like you're gamesolving but you've actually not done anything that is actual gamesolving and every one of your questions is designed to perpetuate the narrative that you're trying to draw here. You're never this in control as Town.

[plantsy]

[plantsy]

I don't know if you'll still be reading this game FA but I'm sorry you felt that no one was talking to you. Plotinus and I both liked your posts about mastina and I guess we should have said so in thread sooner.

[plantsy]

RC why do you think I voted you in 375?

RC if you're not willing to talk to me then I have no way to sort you and the only thing I'm left to assume is that you don't want to be sorted and I can't see how that comes from town!you. I think you're aware that you won't be able to have a sustained conversation with me without me being able to lock your alignment through it and if you're Town then it would be really helpful if you would help me see that so that I can focus on my other scumreads. If you're Town and don't want me to tell the thread that you're Town because you're trying to dodge the night kill then I get that I can not say that if that happens but what you're doing right now is making me think that the few scumposts that you dropped really are indicative of your alignment this game.

[plantsy]

I just meant that your playstyle is very much distinct from 'x is a soulread', so I was hoping that there more logic behind it

ah, yeah. That makes sense. nancy is better at reading tone than I am, so her strengths come into full force earlier than mine do. You'll see logic and walls and cases from me for sure but I'm still getting a feel for everybody and deciding what I think.

I keep staring off into space so I'm going to go to bed.

pedit: thank you! Sometimes I just look at a sentence and I try to read it and my brain is like "yes those are english words" but doesn't decipher it and it's annoying. I think understand what you're saying now. Soulread just means you know somebody really well so they can't hide from you, or they can't hide from you for very long because you'll figure them out, but you do you.

i know how soulread works, i feel like i can read some people too, but on other hand it's easy to fake as a scum too, so when only argument to SR someone is soulread without giving any quotes or pointing out what makes believe someone is scum looks worse. Also i wasn't completely honest with my case - there was another thing that nancy said: as a scum she could kill RM, but as practice shows (recent Divergent game), RM isn't that easy to NK, and i have feeling RM would be one of priority targets of TP, so pushing ML is more appealing option than trying luck with nk, when nk could be used on someone else

sorry for that, english isn't my native language and i get quite often people saying my grammar is bad or they have troubles understand my thoughts, especially, when i write fast, i tend to mess up my sentences

It's okay; it's a problem with the way my brain processes language in general. It's not just you.

I think that expecting other people to follow a push they don't understand would be folly, but we are not going to lynch somebody with one vote alone. We'll provide something compelling when we want to.

--

I'm also sorry to see Frozen go, but if a game hurts as bad as this one is hurting then it's not worth staying, so I respect her for taking care of herself and replacing out; I think her slot is really town.

--

Nachooooo I can see that you are online when are you going to start posting because I want to know if this game you are friend nacho or nacho friend.

[plantsy]

Yeah, nacho friend would be the bad guy because it's a pun like not your townfriend

I'm glad you're here though! The question will answer itself before the end of the day so I'm not worried, just impatient.

[plantsy]

Plotinus isn't sure yet but I already know you're Town because this game just wouldn't be right if you weren't XD

[plantsy]

Jae is not a girl itlepip, pronoun is they.

[plantsy]

@Jae: I am townreading itlepip; I assume nancy was talking to nacho.

yeah, I really liked nancy's post about frozen angel. I liked her scumhunting. I feel like they were one of the main people who were doing things in this game and trying to figure things out and I think RC got toxic with her to shut her down. He's said over and over again that the way to win as scum is to tunnel town into apathy and to be so over the top awful that people refuse to believe someone would do that as scum. Just every post of Frozen's and Shiro's felt good to me. Her AtE was not alignment indicative; I think she would've been just as upset regardless but if you look past that at what she was doing, it felt really town to me.

Additionally I thought it was shitty that she said she was trying to not get so emotionally upset by games and people pushed her to get emotionally upset and pushed her for not having a meltdown. Like regardless of the alignments of everybody involved, even if that was a TvT, and some of it must've been because there were multiple people doing it, it was shitty. But the whole momentum of the big noisy thing with frozen felt like people were trying to shut her up and shut her down and remove her from the ranks of the credible and there is scum motivation for making a play like that.

So I am reading her as town both for the way she behaved and for the way the thread dynamics are moving against her.

[plantsy]

Sweet

[plantsy]

Umami

[plantsy]

Nacho I tried to stay awake for the rest of your catch up but I'm falling asleep. I hope our schedules will overlap for a bit longer next time.

[plantsy]

I'll try to get on first thing then, but take a nap if you need to.

[plantsy]

Overall, this is pretty reasonable analysis and seeing reasonable analysis from you this early is not really what I'm used to from you - what prompted the playstyle change here?

You should see the hydra PT

The short answer is that I love this hydra so much and my heart leaps for joy every time I go into the hydra PT, it was my complete intention to play seriously from page 1 and give my full efforts to this hydra and what you're seeing isn't so much a playstyle change as just me in serious mode. When Plotinus told me they wanted to hydra with me I knew this was going to be the best hydra ever and when I saw the playerlist I knew this could potentially be an amazing game and I didn't want to squander this chance the way I did with ~W~ when I didn't realize how rare that opportunity was. You saw glimpses of my serious side there. I really only do lazyposting when I don't think a game matters very much and this game matters to me a lot.

I'm really really glad you're Town here (I don't care if it's too early to say, I just know it's true, I want it so much and it has to be true and I can already feel it) and I can already see that you're challenging my reads which is a delight because Plotinus and I are so in sync it's almost scary and I think we need someone (you too Tammy!! ) who can help push our blind spots and pull us out of any kind of a narrative that we might have subconsciously bought into. I'm definitely most interested in your mastina read right now because that's something that Plotinus and I aren't quite sure on, Plotinus was leaning one way and I was leaning the other way and I think I might have influenced them more heavily to my view than they would've taken otherwise so it's going to be great to get your opinions on that and try and hash out the read with you.

[plantsy]

As town here nancy would back up a little and wonder if maybe it was just the dissociation messing with her read. Instead, she doubled down at a time where she knew I couldn't emotionally respond because my emotions were locked off from me and I was struggling to get them back.

Don't do this. This was an awesome post but that is low.

[plantsy]

Stop bringing RL into the game. Period. Trying to make 330 an AI post is also fucking digusting. Just don't. You should fucking know better I care about you way more than any fucking mafia game jesus christ

[plantsy]

This isn't helping. I forgive you. Please play the game and keep it here. I cannot talk to you about this IRL so please don't drag it in it's not fair

[plantsy]

Imperium, I'm awake and making breakfast if either of you are still around.

[plantsy]

Spoiler: please respect my privacy and do not read this if you are not jaereed

why the fuck would you bring rl into this. if you wanted to go out of your way to hurt me despite me telling you that it was fine to play with me and i wouldn't be bothered by you trying to pocket me or scum up whatever the fuck read on me then congrats you did because i'm fucking hurt i expected better of you and now i don't even fucking believe that you're feeling that shit about being betrayed even though i thought there actually was a chance when i read the post that you would've somehow actually thought taht i'd use that shit to try to lynch you easier despite how fucking low that is i'm not rc and i refuse to use my fucking emotions to legitimize my pushes i wouldn't even do that if i were scum and you're beign fucking abusive by bringing this shit into it and i now feel shit about this game and am borderline replacing out if you want to keep trying to use rl to manipulate shit then i will fucking replace out because i cannot stand the fact taht there is now this shit that you've created that WE CANT resolve because it's in a fucking game and we can't talk to each other about it and you're still trying to push it like what the fuck do you expect from here i love you and i can't even tell if you're lying about feeling betrayed i'm stuck in a fucking limbo of not knowing what to do or how to deal with this i don't want you to feel like i'm fucking blaming you here because if you really were actually betrayed thinking that i'd abuse that shit then i'm really really sorry i would NEVER ever fucking do that shit you should know this ESPECIALLY not as town no not even especially not as town jsut fucking never how could i ever put my love for you below some insignificant game that is just appalling i'm sorry i'm really irrational right now and i don't knoww hat i'm doing can you please level with me somehow i already know you're scum so can you just clarify what the fuck is going on with you please i'm really worried about you i don't know what to do and i can't talk to you anywhere else about this

[plantsy]

it feels like he's butting in.

Normally the problem with butting in is that you're getting in the way of someone else's answer; here Boon was asking Rylai why they thought mastina was forced and smith asked Boon why they thought mastina was town so there wasn't actually any interference there.

This is a fair point; I didn't like the post and then the reason why I thought I didn't like the post turned out not to apply and I was left with "I still don't like the post". I think I probably just misread it.

It feels like you're constructing a narrative in which mastina is scum and you're looking at everybody else through the light of mastina and all of your reads are based on mastina and their interactions with her. It feels really one dimensional and easy.

This is similar to itlepip's observation. I think that while mhsmith0 might be playing up his suspicions a bit, that dishonesty doesn't necessarily equal scum.

I guess it was a little earlier for accusations like that but it was the first read I had that I felt good about, and I wish he'd engaged me on it instead of just riding it out because my read on him feels stale but it also feels unresolved.

SQ's push on mastina here is a bit in left field (lots of things change how we respond to posts in a game, which include our mood at the time and different expectations on who we're playing with), but the overall push feels vaguely genuine. I'm not sure what Yume's general opinion of mastina is but the push to sort her early definitely seems like a townie perspective.

Left field pushes are pretty standard for her, but I think she gets something out of it? I've thought the posts she made are town enough; I just wish she were making more of them.

My early townread on Ramicus is one that hangs almost entirely on tone; I like his recent pushes on me for being a bookie-gladiator (I think), and I like how he pushes the Yume read here with the same conviction.

Yume's frustration here that someone isn't taking the time to interpret and think about her case properly is also something I think happens more often from town than not; she could just be scum that's proud in the push she's faking but I think it's likelier that she's town who thinks she has a legitimate line of pursuit and Ramicus is damaging that by making her case seem worse than it actually is.[/quote]Does this affect your read on Ramcius?

@itle:
What are you talking about here?

Replying to this because I see he has already done so: that was when he townslipped or showed he hadn't read the OP where it says there are 4 scum.

@keyen:
We're not scum this time! Tammy's pumped about it and I think I'm glad as long as Plotinus and nancy aren't secretly playing Pocket Monsters.

Nevar Well, probably in some future game because I am aware that I've never buddied you as scum before and it's on my todo list, but this game isn't that one.

I never said I townread you

I said RC mentioning meta there at that point was towny

There are a couple points this game where Rylai goes "I didn't suspect you, I just said you were suspicious" or this post. I'm personally guessing that it's not alignment indicative but it's weird and so I'm noting it and hoping the head of this hydra that's actually good at town can give me some more productive feedback on it.

A lot of the RC-FA interactions early game to me are mostly meaningless to me. RC's assertion that FA as town would attempt to sort out their hydra first thing is an assertion that sounds logical enough, but trotting out the "you're not reading me yet" card on page 10 seems premature in general. Her saying RC using meta was "towny" is a weird statement to be sure, but I don't know if a weird statement means that she has a strong chance of being scum; this is the type of thing I would have asked her to elaborate on if she was still around. FA accuses RC of having an early game FA push; this is something I can buy thanks to the RC-Postie interactions that I've seen (which might not be indicative of their meta together as a whole but on average it seems like he suspects her a bit more than he should and tends to push aggressively to form/solidify reads on her). Her saying that she'd prefer to let the game solve RC or read the slot through Titus is something that seems a bit questionable because I'd expect FA to have pride in her ability to read RC, but this is an intuitive guess and also falls in the "something I'd like to talk to her about" category so overall the most honest thing I can do is shrug and wait to read on other things.

FA has a very wide emotionally range as both alignments and there's basically no level of emotion that I would say "this makes her town because she wouldn't say this as scum." I'm not an official Frozen Reader^TM but I don't think she fakes emotion; I think that when she's scum she is channelling her real emotions, so the only good response is "hey I'm sorry you're upset and I still think that you're [whatever I thought she was before]." I was, and am, okay with the scumhunting she was doing and don't believe that RC believes in his push on her.


Sorry for quote striping, Tammy.

pedit: RC, please stop.

[plantsy]

100% nothing that happened so far is outside of FA's range or what she /would/ do but I don't think Shiro is a problem and I'd rather give that slot a rest for now.

I do agree with this; I'm ignoring the emotional stuff with my read there. I agree with you that Shiro will probably clear things up either way.

[plantsy]

You're allowed to scumread us; it helps your wincon because we're town and you can use it to look like you're doing something. That's not what I was asking you to stop.

I'm not the head that made that post; but I think that we have an entire body of work that you can focus on instead of trying to reignite toxicity that was looking like it was winding down.

[plantsy]

You're allowed to scumread us; it helps your wincon because we're town and you can use it to look like you're doing something. That's not what I was asking you to stop.

I'm not the head that made that post; but I think that we have an entire body of work that you can focus on instead of trying to reignite toxicity that was looking like it was winding down.

Dude, he left. You might consider that he actually SRed you and he couldn't get anywhere because I disagreed like an old cranky lady?

Hi Titus! We don't think RC was town, so that affects our interpretation of his behaviour. You are welcome to town up your slot, though. What are some other reads of his that you disagreed on? Did he really believe the FA push or was he overselling it? I know he does that sometimes.

[plantsy]

FA has a very wide emotionally range as both alignments and there's basically no level of emotion that I would say "this makes her town because she wouldn't say this as scum." I'm not an official Frozen ReaderTM but I don't think she fakes emotion; I think that when she's scum she is channelling her real emotions, so the only good response is "hey I'm sorry you're upset and I still think that you're [whatever I thought she was before]." I was, and am, okay with the scumhunting she was doing and don't believe that RC believes in his push on her.

I think this means I misinterpreted your bit about FA.

Did nancy ever try to explain the RC read to you? Are you able to explain that to me?

There are so many posts about the RC read in our hydra PT, you have no idea. Her read has a lot of parts to it and I understand them and agree. I've been letting her take point on that because it's primarily her read and I trust her to be able to read him more accurately than I can, and that includes letting her decide how much we want to talk about in public about the read, because she was playing some cards close to her chest while she sorted him. And additionally I don't like trying to explain someone else's reads because it feels like a game of telephone, so I would prefer to let her do that. It's easier for me to talk about my half of the conversation, but I don't have to time do it right now because I need to take care of the cat. I think I need to take him back to the vet.

We'll do a big case when we're ready. Soon probably.

[plantsy]

You're allowed to scumread us; it helps your wincon because we're town and you can use it to look like you're doing something. That's not what I was asking you to stop.

I'm not the head that made that post; but I think that we have an entire body of work that you can focus on instead of trying to reignite toxicity that was looking like it was winding down.

Dude, he left. You might consider that he actually SRed you and he couldn't get anywhere because I disagreed like an old cranky lady?

Hi Titus! We don't think RC was town, so that affects our interpretation of his behaviour. You are welcome to town up your slot, though. What are some other reads of his that you disagreed on? Did he really believe the FA push or was he overselling it? I know he does that sometimes.

I want to respond to this so this is a bookmark kind of.

He believed it until the end where he said he wanted to back off. He also believed your push was personal and not game related.

[plantsy]

Plotinus, I am awake: I am sorry for falling asleep on you but I just couldn't take it anymore (don't even remember falling asleep!). I'm here if you need me but otherwise I'm probably going to spend a bit of time doing other things.

s'ok. sleep is important thing that should be done at least once a day! i've been at the vet's for over five hours (had to wait in line); just got home. Think the mathemakitten's gonna be okay though. I'm kinda here but not in full force right now. I don't think we agree on very many reads at the moment and I want to talk about it and sync with you because I do think you're pretty town so far (mostly for the claim but starting to be more to it now with the way you're approaching your reads) I can answer short questions probably or we can try again later.

[plantsy]

You're allowed to scumread us; it helps your wincon because we're town and you can use it to look like you're doing something. That's not what I was asking you to stop.

I'm not the head that made that post; but I think that we have an entire body of work that you can focus on instead of trying to reignite toxicity that was looking like it was winding down.

Dude, he left. You might consider that he actually SRed you and he couldn't get anywhere because I disagreed like an old cranky lady?

Hi Titus! We don't think RC was town, so that affects our interpretation of his behaviour. You are welcome to town up your slot, though. What are some other reads of his that you disagreed on? Did he really believe the FA push or was he overselling it? I know he does that sometimes.

He believed it until the end where he said he wanted to back off. He also believed your push was personal and not game related.

See, neither of us believe that he believed in his FA push, he wasn't talking about his read the way he does when he believes what he's saying, but we know that sometimes as town he pushes something he doesn't believe in to see how other people react or to play with associatives or to get a better read on the person he's pushing or all of the above, and then as scum he's free to make a similar push for gotta-lynch-town-to-win reasons but the difference is I think as town he would let his hydra partner know what he was doing and that you would you say something like "yeah he was trying to read her better" and that as scum you know that faking reads is Bad^TM so admitting to it is Bad^TM so you don't. Maybe someone who has hydraed with him would know?

I have nothing against RC personally; I do think he crosses lines that shouldn't be crossed in some of the games that he plays, including this one, and that the ways he did so in this game benefit scum wincon more than town wincon. I also know that when he's scum, he has a Plan for how he's going to get to LYLO starting on day 1 and he knows who he needs to lynch and who he needs to kill and he knows he'll have more room to manuever if he tunnels obvtown until nobody takes them seriously because people are suspecting them.

And we think that you would've been posting more if you were town and that he was telling you to take a back seat because he is more confident in his scumgame than he is in yours.

(Jae is going to pop in to ask if this is all, and no it isn't, it's just the parts I'm finding words for right now.)

plantsy, your mastina wagon thoughts and why does that wagon remain static?

I don't care very much about that mastina wagon right now. I imagine people aren't voting there because they want to vote elsewhere instead. I also think some of the votes that are on the wagon were from people just coming out of RVS. I don't know what to think about mastina's alignment either; she's Schrödinger for me right now. If I had to come down on one side of the fence, I'd very cautiously lower myself onto the townlean side while inspecting the grass for broken glass, but that read is coming from who she's pushing and taking into account nacho's read on her but I need more time to think about her.

Guess who just got hecking prodded
I'm on page 8 of my readthrough
VOTE: plantsy
Bad entrance.
(<3 to u though)

Is it because I'm buddying imperium or something else?

[plantsy]

mastina won't test it, while trying to persuade others of a wagon. That's not townie. Also, I expect other things to be happening, but they aren't. The game is static. You've been hollow doing next to nothing for instance.

I caught up, then interacted with, suspected but eventually townread Jae. I now have townreads (Jae, Imperium) as well as a townlean (itlepip). I don't currently have a scumread to push, as I just lost my previous one. The people I feel worst about are people like Creature and S&W, but solely because they're doing less than I would expect them to. But this game has been pretty toxic, so it's hard for me to say whether the inactivity is due to alignment, or simply people avoiding this game.

I don't have a read on mastina yet, but I have no reason to scumread them. I don't think wagon speed is an accurate way to read anyone's alignment.
I think the game is static because it's still young, many are lurking and the most active people have been struggling with personal drama that is turning others off this game.

[plantsy]

Is nacho friend the bad guy?

Linguistically-wise, I'd expect Friend Nacho to be the bad guy, because it reads as a (somewhat formal) way of addressing a person, whereas Nacho Friend reads to me as being a description of a person.

Yeah, Friend Nacho is normally vocative case when I call him that out of game, but here I was playing with sounds.

--
Nacho why are you townreading Jae? And since fractals came up, neither of you are playing anything like in Fractals.

--

re: the mastina vote situation: I assume she's doing something and when she's ready to talk about it with the rest of us, she will.

--

Don't gladiate Ramcius, he might just be having trouble making friends. he could be scum too but there are better bets for scum.

--

Nacho, what do you like specifically about Leonshade's posting?

People who I'd be comfortable voting/people who I'm heavily considering as scum right now are Creature, Oversoul, and Sly.

Don't really like Creature's "I'm just going to say that I'm bored and not do anything" approach to the game right now; I liked the same post mastina liked for the same reasons she liked it and so there's still a decent chance that he could be town, but my plan to dealing with him isn't "ignore him and hope he decides to care about the game eventually" (as Leonshade seems to be doing).

Expecting a lot more from Oversoul at this point; my memory of his typical play is that he looks pretty town when he puts his mind to it but he's nowhere there quite yet; would probably spend a little time digging into what stances he's given so far and seeing if he has any interesting thoughts that he just hasn't been sharing.

There are a couple stances and pushes Sly has made this game that have been ridiculous which isn't necessarily alignment indicative but there's typically an emotional edge around his posting centered around some of his scumreads and that tends to crop up when he's pushed so I'm waiting for that to happen. This is the lowest priority of the three since he seems to be the only one that will actually produce and do things on his own.

Your points about Creature I liked; We had also slotted him as town early on but he's fading away quickly and nobody seems to be pushing him either.

The others feel like lowhanging fruit because at one point in time we were actually townreading or at least nullreading all of the low hanging fruity players, so all three of these. Oversoul's posting reminds me of his last few games that I played with him, the Choose Your Side that the three of us played together where he was town? not group scum anyway. And WIFOM city where he was town and lowkey. I don't know if it's alignment indicative for him but he feels like himself, so I had him as kinda null and Creature I had as "town? ish?" but you're right he's disappeared. I also had Sly Sly as town? ish? because on the one hand I forget he's here but on the other I don't mind what he says when he's here. I liked that he was voting RC I guess.

I mean you're not wrong that the three of them are underwhelming but :/

pedit: Titus why can't you read mastina's hurt tags? They tell you who she would be voting if she would be voting anybody and she does two at once even.

[plantsy]

I don't really have a read on RC. I think there are problems in his approach to FA that we now can't talk about and I think that he was pretty transparently hunting by association on FA in a lot of places (scumreads on us, plant + townread on you seemed almost entirely based on our respective stances on FA) which is sort of ridiculous in and of itself but I don't really have a good idea on his general approach in games since we don't tend to play much together at all. Titus being stubborn about a read isn't the most surprising thing in the world and I haven't made observations on when she does/when she doesn't provide wagon analysis.

We can talk about it because his ex hydra partner might have some explanations for some of his behaviour. For what it's worth I have seen RC as town in that awful blitz fake a scumread on me+ether for an entire dayphase and scumhunt with associatives based on "everyone who defends us is scum and everyone who is against us is town" and it just led to lynching a bunch of town. He was hoping that scum would be opportunistic in response or something but it just made the whole game suck. So that point in particular is probably just playstyle. But here he's reminding me a lot of his play in Science, where he was scum.

His push on Frozen started immediately after she claimed loved and it continued from there. I believe he was primarily pushing her

because

she was loved and thus harder to lynch and therefore more of a threat to him. In Science, he was going after targets with similar reasoning and motive; getting rid of threats both by lynching and by nightkilling and finally by demotivating. The Ranger lynch in Science was very similar; I remember it because I bought into it at the time that we had to lynch Ranger that day or anyone who would push her lynch would be killed off and then she would win, and I was wrong.

Also, uh, all the things he says in the endgame of Science about how people let him get away with this kind of thing as scum, all of it is stuff he is doing in this game.

[plantsy]

Also, Imperium, what do you think of Maxwell Puckett?

Spoiler: My read

I've been "town? ish?"-reading him even though he's another member of the "I keep forgetting he exists" crowd because whenever he does pop in I like what he's saying or doing. Like I don't think he posts 316 if he's scum with Jae and his points in 319 are decent and that's all I had when I formed the read. He's voting us now but he'll see the light eventually or he won't. It's not much and I wish he were doing more of it but I'm okay with him for now.

I like and agree with your Steven Quartz townread. I like Statler and Waldorf, too! What do you think about Keyskiies? I have all these people as town enough.

[plantsy]

Hi Titus. I'd like to explain to you some of why I was scumreading your slot, because I think you deserve to know, even though it has largely nothing to do with you (I townread most of the content from your head) and is nothing that you can address. I am resetting my read on you now that RC has replaced out because there is too much noise there now and I can no longer trust myself to accurately read his content for this game. But I was scumreading him. I'm going to spoiler it because I don't feel like doing formatting.

Spoiler:

The main reason was that I don't feel that RC was trying to get reads. I don't think he sorted FA, I don't think he sorted mastina, I don't think he sorted Jae, I don't think he sorted me and I don't think he sorted Imperium. He came in and insisted that FA was scum, then that Jae was Town, interpreted their content in the way that he wanted to, and attacked anyone who opposed his stances. It's possible that town!RC could do this, but this is obviously not Town behavior. When's he Town he's confused, he has bad reads, he doesn't know what's going on but he's trying to figure the game out and play like shit so he doesn't die, when he's scum he's just manipulating people and trying to force the gamestate that he wants, and the second is what I have felt for most of his play this game. The scumread began with these posts here, here and here, where he slips back into RC speak and the feeling I get from those posts is pure manipulation and I don't believe that he could miss that mastina was voteless at all (for which reason it felt vaguely like a partner interaction to me). He also asks for reads here which is not something town!RC does.

I immediately wanted to vote him to make an active effort at sorting him and when I did vote him he towntold but then he ignores me despite me asking to talk to him twice. He knows how much I care about sorting him and that sorting him is my top priority in any game and yet this game he completely ignored me and refused to give me anything even though he is completely aware that he has moved outside his usual meta which messes up my read a lot. He knows many of the scumtells I have on him because we have talked together about how I read him and I think he knew exactly which posts I was scumreading him for and yet he ignored my question asking to see what he thought of my read of him and I think there is a very real chance that he just wanted me to scumread him this game and intentionally dropped scumtells so that I would.

He towntold again here so the weight of the tells that he has dropped is more or less equal and my last significant concern with him is the way that he locked Jae's alignment in without doing any real sorting and became extremely territorial about that stance and hostile to anyone who disagreed. I know RC struggles to read alignment sometimes but I really find it hard to believe that he would just get instantly hard pocketed by Jae after playing scum with them in Civilization. The way he was interacting with Jae reminded me so much of that - he didn't care about their alignment and he was very protective of them, and he is never protective like that so early about his townreads when he is Town because he is more concerned about saving his own ass.

So that's more or less what's been going on for me. I don't think I can resolve many of these questions now that RC has replaced out so that is part of why I am going to reset my read there. I have never seen him play with this tone and that is another reason why I am less likely to trust my read because it is strongly a tonal read. I wish that he had talked to me rather than being so hostile but there's nothing I can do about that now.

[plantsy]

Sorry I wasn't thinking about my vote. But I know we both agree on JaeReed

VOTE: JaeReed

[plantsy]

Has it been Plotonious posting on the account lately?

~Boonskiies

No, just me. Plotinus I think is asleep.

[plantsy]

Also, Imperium, what do you think of Maxwell Puckett?

Spoiler: My read

I've been "town? ish?"-reading him even though he's another member of the "I keep forgetting he exists" crowd because whenever he does pop in I like what he's saying or doing. Like I don't think he posts 316 if he's scum with Jae and his points in 319 are decent and that's all I had when I formed the read. He's voting us now but he'll see the light eventually or he won't. It's not much and I wish he were doing more of it but I'm okay with him for now.

I like and agree with your Steven Quartz townread. I like Statler and Waldorf, too! What do you think about Keyskiies? I have all these people as town enough.

I really hope you're not sorting people based on associates with me.

This is a shallow mischaracterisation of our reads; we are looking at everybody independently but also considering whether they make sense as a team. Our reads don't hinge on your or around you but they fit together with you nonetheless.

[plantsy]

I'm Plotinus.

[plantsy]

Plot are you feeling up to a plus minus analysis?

+- is a lot more useful once we have scumflips, but there are a few slots (mastina's in particular) that I have been thinking of doing it with early because mastina has a lot of content and it would help me get a stronger feel for what she's doing. Right now the main benefit would be helping me get a strong read on a slot I am on the fence about. I'm not sure how much benefit anyone else (except maybe nacho) will derive from it but I'll post it when I'm done. Might take me a few days; depends on how much time/spoons/attention I have.

[plantsy]

I'm Plotinus.

You're still wrong. <3 Sorry.

My concern there was just that if you're hunting via associates with me you're going to be wrong on all of your reads. It was meant as a "if you're hunting by interactions with me please don't because you're going to mess up your reads".

okay. <3

I think that I'm right about you but I also think that if I am wrong then I'm not going to be able to get there directly from here. Talking to Nacho about his read on you will help. If itlepip wants to make a towncase that'll probably help too. Finding four other people that I feel more strongly about their alignments than I do about yours would help.

I think that if I spend some time focusing on slots that I don't feel strongly about I will come away with some really strong townreads or some new surprising scumread or just hopefully anything that isn't "well they still seem pretty okay to me I guess."

[plantsy]

Plot are you feeling up to a plus minus analysis?

+- is a lot more useful once we have scumflips, but there are a few slots (mastina's in particular) that I have been thinking of doing it with early because mastina has a lot of content and it would help me get a stronger feel for what she's doing. Right now the main benefit would be helping me get a strong read on a slot I am on the fence about. I'm not sure how much benefit anyone else (except maybe nacho) will derive from it but I'll post it when I'm done. Might take me a few days; depends on how much time/spoons/attention I have.

I kinda want a plus minus on me and RC. Our hydra heads were treated very differently and it may be useful going forward.

+- shows how one slot is looking at everyone else, not how everyone is looking at one person, so if I do you/RC it will be a map of all the stances you have taken towards other slots, if I do mastina it will be a map of all the stances she has taken to everybody else (including towards you two).

I will probably make a map of you guys at some point, but that's not the best use of my time right now since I already have a fairly strong read on your slot.

[plantsy]

Spoiler: please respect my privacy and do not read this if you are not jaereed

why the fuck would you bring rl into this. if you wanted to go out of your way to hurt me despite me telling you that it was fine to play with me and i wouldn't be bothered by you trying to pocket me or scum up whatever the fuck read on me then congrats you did because i'm fucking hurt i expected better of you and now i don't even fucking believe that you're feeling that shit about being betrayed even though i thought there actually was a chance when i read the post that you would've somehow actually thought taht i'd use that shit to try to lynch you easier despite how fucking low that is i'm not rc and i refuse to use my fucking emotions to legitimize my pushes i wouldn't even do that if i were scum and you're beign fucking abusive by bringing this shit into it and i now feel shit about this game and am borderline replacing out if you want to keep trying to use rl to manipulate shit then i will fucking replace out because i cannot stand the fact taht there is now this shit that you've created that WE CANT resolve because it's in a fucking game and we can't talk to each other about it and you're still trying to push it like what the fuck do you expect from here i love you and i can't even tell if you're lying about feeling betrayed i'm stuck in a fucking limbo of not knowing what to do or how to deal with this i don't want you to feel like i'm fucking blaming you here because if you really were actually betrayed thinking that i'd abuse that shit then i'm really really sorry i would NEVER ever fucking do that shit you should know this ESPECIALLY not as town no not even especially not as town jsut fucking never how could i ever put my love for you below some insignificant game that is just appalling i'm sorry i'm really irrational right now and i don't knoww hat i'm doing can you please level with me somehow i already know you're scum so can you just clarify what the fuck is going on with you please i'm really worried about you i don't know what to do and i can't talk to you anywhere else about this

Alright I need to talk about this and I'll try to keep this brief for those of you outside of it but at this point it's clearly bleeding through into rl so I can't not respond. Sorry.

Spoiler: nancy only and all that, trust me, you don't want to read this drama

I stopped bringing rl into it and merely stated why that slipped in being the fact that I felt hurt, betrayed, and angry about what I perceived to be what was happening.
The fact that you believe I'd be scum doing this shit to you is disgusting and means that you don't know me at all. You haven't listened to me at all in all the time you've known me if that's the case. To say you think I would lie about that is simultaneously calling me a liar which you know is something that will cause me distress, and invalidating my feelings.
You could have said "I believe you're feeling hurt/betrayed/angry for <insert whatever the fuck reason>" and yet you did not. Instead, you completely invalidated my feelings.
That shit isn't right. Not even in a mafia game, and you know it. The players are people above all else and they do have emotions and you decided to shit on mine, and I understand that you were hurt that I believed as mafia you'd use my dissociation against me, but being hurt does not give you the right to completely invalidate my feelings. Ever. You wouldn't do that to a stranger you're playing with, so why the hell would you think it's okay to do it to someone you're supposed to love and care about?

Spoiler: jae only

i am sorry, i was an emotional irrational trainwreck still am to the extent that it's made me physically ill, i would never in my right mind think you would lie about rl just for a game advantage, you kept saying stuff about rl afterwards which just hurt me more, sorry that i treated your feelings like shit. sorry as well that i didn't think about what you were going through irl with dissociation when i was playing the game, you already know it wasn't intentional now i was just playing but i should've taken that into account and left you alone, i'm sorry that i invalidated your pain from that i was extremely irrational doesn't excuse it but i do know you better than to think that, sorry that i hurt you i'm glad you're doing okay despite that, i love you

[plantsy]

VOTE: Leonshade

[plantsy]

Lesbians of the world unite.

I would like to say that if Jae was scum here you would all be pocketed. Y'all don't have enough respect for their scumgame.

Sorry that our thread presence hasn't been as strong as it could be, we've both been unwell but we've pouring our heart and soul into the game in the hydra PT and would constitute a fourth of the whole game if all of that was out here, we're currently both doing a reread and we should have a coherent readslist out as a hydra once we've finished that.

Jae I don't get the Creature scumread at all. The only plausible reason I'm finding for it personally is a team guess and I don't feel like basing my reads on preflip right now. Please share.

[plantsy]

It's definitely not pre-flip based. None of my reads are.

I didn't mean that yours were, I meant that I could see a world where Creature is scum right now but it would require preflip, I'm not scumreading him. But that's fine, we can table it.

[plantsy]

mastina, you always scumread me when I'm town and here I am town and yet you are townreading me. What's up?

[plantsy]

@mastina But I am not a day 1 player. You know this, you saw this in SU2, so.....

please try anyway if you're town. you don't have to produce a miracle and solve the game today but I want you to find something to talk about and talk about it.

[plantsy]

@mods

does flavor is alignment indicative? If that's a secret, i will understand

Just because of Keyskiies claimed mainprotagonist doen't mean they can't be scum, but i let it for now

VOTE: S&W

I really want more from Gamma, if he's town

I think I'll buy this townslip.

[plantsy]

Having a pokemon avatar is a new meme?

Yeah. You should join the speakeasy!

I'm liking Creature's comeback (not this post in particular, but the energy and the tone of his posts overall). I haven't played with him all that much but I have indeed seen him get bored of a game as town before, though No Inglish was a bit of an outlier for everybody.

We liked his entrance, got worried about him once his activity dropped off, and then worried that the lack of people pushing him meant he had a nice scum role that nobody wanted to bus but we're liking his return. If he keeps on like this, it'll be good.

[plantsy]

I am Keys informed neighbor. I know Keys is Sora and is aligned with the light. Keys is mod confirmed from my perspective.

nacho setup spec isn't my thing but do you think this makes SlySly more likely to be town than not? I think it would be kind of weird to have a mod confirmed town player and then have scum be the informed neighbour?

[plantsy]

mastina, you always scumread me when I'm town and here I am town and yet you are townreading me. What's up?

I get the feeling she's townreading me not so much you

[plantsy]

@mods

does flavor is alignment indicative? If that's a secret, i will understand

Just because of Keyskiies claimed mainprotagonist doen't mean they can't be scum, but i let it for now

VOTE: S&W

I really want more from Gamma, if he's town

I think I'll buy this townslip.

Uhmmmmm
I don't think so
Why?
~Keyen

If the scum team is competent, they will have read the mechanics part of the OP and discussed it with each other. They will know that Sora is in the game and will be looking to find Sora and kill Sora, because Sora is someone they can't mislynch. Also, pushing on the soon-to-be-confirmed town takes some guts when they need to make friends with you so you don't lynch them.

I don't think it's 100% because he could be faking it but I don't see the point of pretending not to read the OP; it's not some knowledge that only scum has that Sora exists so there's no reason to pretend you don't have it.


Additionally we've been getting vibes that Ramcius is lynchbait; he's the guy that looks kinda scummy and could easily get lynched day 1 but more because he's not fitting in than because he's scummy. nancy has him as nullish and for me he's part of my too many townleans which is better than the too many scumleans I had before.

[plantsy]

Hi Tammy!

[plantsy]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts! They make sense. We want you to gladiate Leonshade but Nacho didn't mind his posting.

We like Creature too since his comeback!

[plantsy]

I'm going to revisit this now since I've been throwing out a lot of other stuff I've been trying to hold on to and Tammy mentioned the confidence thing, which was what I was holding on to in order to see if it happened again naturally.

I noticed the same thing and it was definitely a head-tilt. I don't see much point in talking about how Creature is playing right now because if he's scum then it's only going to benefit him and his buds but I do think that that felt like staged confidence, picking up your queue in the play and saying your lines, and when I go back to the confidence that I thought I saw that I initially townread him for I don't really see it anymore.

It's kind of a strange game for me because the process of 52 pages has essentially been one where I've developed strong reads that I feel emotionally bound too which have then been shattered by one realization or another (most significantly the realization that Plotinus and I had bought into a narrative of our own construction and were unable to parse information outside that narrative - and I don't entirely blame us because even now the evidence in support of it is clearly there, it's just.. not as compelling and has other inputs that defy it) and succeeded by new, contrary reads that thankfully do actually make much more sense to me by paradoxically making less sense (too much sense = narrative trap). The only really stable read that I've felt invested in in any meaningful way from page one has been mastina, the others came on later like Imperium or have gone from hardscum to hardtown or hardtown to somewherescum or I've just not felt any investment in them like Leonshade which has sat square and staid at the bottom of Plotinus' and my tiers all game.

[plantsy]

VOTE: MaxwellPuckett

[plantsy]

Eh, you got there eventually. I'm amused the great partner interaction reader couldn't tell I'm not scum through, y'know, not having scum partners. (Yeah you may have got there but I'm still gonna rib you for that.) <3

I wasn't scumreading you due to any partner interactions. Your entrance was objectively super scummy, everything after was empty questions and WKing which deepened my read, and I was reading RC as RC instead of Tyler which gave me a false positive on a few of his posts, so I scumread you both and townread FA because I didn't know anything of her meta (I didn't realize she had a good scumgame and was also toxic as scum) which led to the narrative. The way he was defending you didn't seem like a partner interaction so much as extremely wrong because of how off I felt his read was and what I know of his meta, but again, he was playing as Tyler, not RC, so that was my mistake. (He could have just talked to me and we could have skipped the replace out and all that, but I don't know, he hates it when I scumread him even if he should know by now that I sort him by pushing on him - although I didn't even really push him this game.)

[plantsy]

1282-1284 is mastina towntelling ftr. Paranoia over her is gone. Still salty that she doesn't have me practically conftown in her reads but oh well.

why?

[plantsy]

The few saving graces it has: plantsy, yourself, and Titus vouching for it.

See above. Shiro is lower in my reads than for Plotinus, but neither of us townread the slot anymore.

[plantsy]

My biggest concern with mastina is that she don't try push lynch, yes, like half her post is about me being so obv scum, slipping hard in every step and so on, but then she don't really care for my lynch, don't care that only she see all my "slips" and people are leaning town on me, now brought back Smith (yes, his catch up was weird, yes, he's gone again), but that's just a words, another one is Over, which she calls scum, yet no hard push. All i see is a lot of words coming from her, word that should look towny, but just feels really off.

And i stay to same - i don't want her lynch today, i prefer someone lurking/coasting, as having someone active/talking a lot in later game will be more valuable to make associations than someone coming just to prodge and killing game

What constitutes a push to you? What does someone have to do to push a read?

my concern is not pushing for lynch, not about reads, she trow reads, but that's all, she not care what happens next, not care why people not wagon her SRs, not interested in why there so many vanity wagons, just came here to catch up, spit some shadow on people and that's all

What do you call the 48 posts she has on the topic of Ramcius Is Scum, if not pushing for a lynch?

[plantsy]

1282-1284 is mastina towntelling ftr. Paranoia over her is gone. Still salty that she doesn't have me practically conftown in her reads but oh well.

why?

Because scumastina going off on a tangent like that is just really unlikely. Let alone for 3 posts. That's a town!mastina trait.

That feels really black and white, but ok.

[plantsy]

No you misunderstand, I mean that you should have known I wasn't scum because I had a lack of partners.
Like, I was clearly town because I was working alone. I wasn't approaching anyone the way I'd approach a scum partner.

When you're tunneled you can find anything to fit your narrative that you please.

[plantsy]

Because scumastina going off on a tangent like that is just really unlikely. Let alone for 3 posts. That's a town!mastina trait.

I'm sorry, I think she does that as both alignments.

[plantsy]

Plotinus <3

I love being active in thread at the same time as you!! <3<3

[plantsy]

nacho you are online and we miss you

pedit: I was just thinking the same thing! hi nancy <3

[plantsy]

nacho you are online and we miss you

<3

[plantsy]

Transcend/nancy/Alisae scumteam amirite? ;p

It's like a highschool memory....

<3

[plantsy]

My biggest concern with mastina is that she don't try push lynch, yes, like half her post is about me being so obv scum, slipping hard in every step and so on, but then she don't really care for my lynch, don't care that only she see all my "slips" and people are leaning town on me, now brought back Smith (yes, his catch up was weird, yes, he's gone again), but that's just a words, another one is Over, which she calls scum, yet no hard push. All i see is a lot of words coming from her, word that should look towny, but just feels really off.

And i stay to same - i don't want her lynch today, i prefer someone lurking/coasting, as having someone active/talking a lot in later game will be more valuable to make associations than someone coming just to prodge and killing game

What constitutes a push to you? What does someone have to do to push a read?

my concern is not pushing for lynch, not about reads, she trow reads, but that's all, she not care what happens next, not care why people not wagon her SRs, not interested in why there so many vanity wagons, just came here to catch up, spit some shadow on people and that's all

What do you call the 48 posts she has on the topic of Ramcius Is Scum, if not pushing for a lynch?

See, problem is there's no real wagon on me, Slysly vote isn't serious as he said he would like me in his townblock, Key left my wagon recently, but that's probably second strongest SR on me, so how you would call someone making 48 pages with so many arguments why i'm scum, but having no problem with people townleaning on me and not voting me? Same goes for other her SRs, Smith have no votes, and Oversoul case is funny, cause only vote there is from Leon - 4th SR of mastina.

So to answer you question i call it shadetrowing

So she isn't getting people to follow her, but I don't think it's from lack of trying. You're right that people aren't convinced by her arguments but you think that if she was town she would have convinced people? People would be sheeping her if she was town? Most of the wagons in this game have been pretty small wagons, which means that most people aren't being very convincing about their arguments. To me it looks like she's tunnelling you pretty hard. I don't know what more she could be doing than what she is doing, (short of voting you which she either can't or isn't done gambitting that she can't, but either way it's not something I care about).

[plantsy]

Spoiler:

My biggest concern with mastina is that she don't try push lynch, yes, like half her post is about me being so obv scum, slipping hard in every step and so on, but then she don't really care for my lynch, don't care that only she see all my "slips" and people are leaning town on me, now brought back Smith (yes, his catch up was weird, yes, he's gone again), but that's just a words, another one is Over, which she calls scum, yet no hard push. All i see is a lot of words coming from her, word that should look towny, but just feels really off.

And i stay to same - i don't want her lynch today, i prefer someone lurking/coasting, as having someone active/talking a lot in later game will be more valuable to make associations than someone coming just to prodge and killing game

What constitutes a push to you? What does someone have to do to push a read?

my concern is not pushing for lynch, not about reads, she trow reads, but that's all, she not care what happens next, not care why people not wagon her SRs, not interested in why there so many vanity wagons, just came here to catch up, spit some shadow on people and that's all

What do you call the 48 posts she has on the topic of Ramcius Is Scum, if not pushing for a lynch?

See, problem is there's no real wagon on me, Slysly vote isn't serious as he said he would like me in his townblock, Key left my wagon recently, but that's probably second strongest SR on me, so how you would call someone making 48 pages with so many arguments why i'm scum, but having no problem with people townleaning on me and not voting me? Same goes for other her SRs, Smith have no votes, and Oversoul case is funny, cause only vote there is from Leon - 4th SR of mastina.

So to answer you question i call it shadetrowing

So she isn't getting people to follow her, but I don't think it's from lack of trying. You're right that people aren't convinced by her arguments but you think that if she was town she would have convinced people? People would be sheeping her if she was town? Most of the wagons in this game have been pretty small wagons, which means that most people aren't being very convincing about their arguments. To me it looks like she's tunnelling you pretty hard. I don't know what more she could be doing than what she is doing, (short of voting you which she either can't or isn't done gambitting that she can't, but either way it's not something I care about).

she use hurt tags instead, but my point is she not confront people for ignoring her push, only pushing her narrative and don't care what other people say or do

ok. I am getting bored of her tunnel on you tbh.


I think the Max wagon is a good wagon and that if Imperium doesn't gladiate Leonshade then they should gladiate Max.

[plantsy]

@nancy your opinion on this?

Because Sly's top candidates for his town circle are the two people he has voted.

That's certainly odd, but why do you consider it scummy? Sly has a quirky playstyle anyway, but even disregarding meta, SlySly used his vote in weird ways and was transparent about it.

Could you be more specific with your question? If you're asking about what I think you're asking about, I'd rather not answer at the moment!

But, I don't feel like Leonshade has sorted Sly at all, if that's what you mean! Sly voted anyone who voted Boonskiies, I don't remember him being transparent about that in any particular way so I'm not sure what Leonshade means by that or how he's getting an alignment read off it!

[plantsy]

Also, Road Kamelot is my alt.

Omg hi!!!!

(We don't actually know each other yet but you're a friend of friends so <3)

[plantsy]

@Oversoul I am not entirely sure what the relevance of your question was to that quote. Are you just curious about our read (if so, why that slot and that timeframe?) or is there something specific you were wanting to talk with us about?

Plotinus is currently unwell and I don't know if they will be around much, so you have only me to talk to. (I am also taking a passive role because I am worn out and saving energy, and just don't feel much fire in me about this game at the moment. My reads are gradually maturing and I like the slower pace right now.)

smith I kinda feel like you're ignoring me and it's making me sad. Talk to me?

[plantsy]

On that day, on that hour, what was your read there

Weak scumlean. Why that slot/timestamp?

[plantsy]

On that day, on that hour, what was your read there

Weak scumlean. Why that slot/timestamp?

Self reminder to reply to this

I find that read on itle to be not genuine at all. The reason I quoted the post I did was because I did not want to quote the actual post that caused me to look into your iso.

The actual post that caused me to look into your iso is the one where you townread Ramicus for his "slip".

@mods

does flavor is alignment indicative? If that's a secret, i will understand

Just because of Keyskiies claimed mainprotagonist doen't mean they can't be scum, but i let it for now

VOTE: S&W

I really want more from Gamma, if he's town

I think I'll buy this townslip.

A slip that itlepip had already made way before Ramicus ever made that post. A slip that a couple of people discussed in the thread (myself included). A slip that you acknowledge itlepip making in 683 calling it a townslip. Now, you townread itlepip before his slip and then you call that act a townslip, so where does the scumlean come from?

Arguably, if you look at both slips Ramicus should be the one that is immediately suspect considering he made the slip after itlepip and saw that itlepip was getting townread for that slip. That makes it much more likely Ramicus could have fabricated the slip. However, at that time, you run against that line of thinking with the townread on Ramicus and a scumread on itle out of seemingly nowhere.

That all looks like theater to me and you are not really attached to your reads.

VOTE: plantsy

We both initially townread itlepip's townslip but by the time of that post, nancy was having misgivings about itlepip's townslip because of the rest of his play. I initially townread both itlepip and Ramcius for the townslips but itlepip overplayed it, and when he was corrected and told that the number of scum were in the OP, he seemed to ignore it and continued to act like we still couldn't know how many scum were alive to the point that it stretched plausibility. Ramcius' townslip was different in nature; his was less about not reading the OP and pretending not to know how many scum there were, which is an easier slip to fake, and more about the way he was pushing Imperium based on his understanding of the OP. I also liked Imperium's take on the Ramcius townslip.

While I still had a "town? ish?" read on itlepip on Saturday at the time you were talking about, I've been coming over to nancy's view about him because I just don't like what he is doing this game. I don't like how when he pushes on us it's this really tentative and cautious push like he doesn't want to anger us (-437, -1337). I don't like the way some of his reads don't make sense, for example people he talks about as if he's scumreading them are suddenly town on his readslist, like:

Jae -912 +916
Mastina -914 +916 and -1337 pinged me as well because he's thinking in terms of how hard to lynch certain people are, and while he's trying to put a townspin on it, the underlying vantage point isn't a town one.


Ramcius, meanwhile, continues to feel like a low charisma lynch.

I like that you feel like you found a smoking gun on us, though, and I hope it helps you to get a foothold into the game and find some more pushes that you believe in.

[plantsy]

I might've should've reread it more carefully to see that you were referring to the "not knowing Sora is in the game" townslip instead of the "pushing imperium for being a gladiator because that's almost like a bookie" townslip. But I stand by the rest of the post

[plantsy]

@plantsy: your quoting of this reads like a +1. What in particular makes you think that I'm ignoring Jae, and what in particular would you expect me to be talkign with them about?

Sorry no, I was saying it for myself. Say hi to me!

[plantsy]

Well that's not going to happen. He's not lynching you. You protect the conftown, I'll ensure you have the wall up by n3. Sound good?

I really don't think that just "protect the conf!town" is the best play here. Protection shouldn't automatically just go on conf!town and I hope anyone who is protective knows that especially looking at this table.

[plantsy]

(snip)

Are you genuinely trying to sort me here or are you just trying to find fault with something? It feels like the latter to me right now, you have made a great deal of assumptions in your post and this whole argument feels kind of fabricated. Sorry if it's not. I don't think that a read changing is a sign that I am not attached to my reads, and I don't think that not being attached to reads is scummy, even if it were true? So I am not sure what you are pushing on here. You actually quoted a post by Plotinus there, by the way. Plotinus had him as townish for the slip but now thinks that he overplayed it (which I agree with). Also, I am not townreading Ramcius and neither is Plotinus. Please let me know if that doesn't address your confusion.

[plantsy]

Im standing by what I said before about what I dont like of your play, Jae, esp wrt Leon analysis, who i forgot to put in my townlist but should be
mastina is maybetown so Oversoul goes in the scumpile. Creature and pip are obvtowning, FA was town so Shiro is town.
I cant remember why Im townreading Titus specifically but I dont want to go back on it rn when she's a slot I know Ill just go back and forth on. Im fine to work w her rn
Actually not SRing NM on a second look, I didnt like 979 but thats it

These reasons really are not enough. I disagree with almost all of your reads... Can you say more? Please finish catching up as soon as possible.

[plantsy]

Vote Count 1.23

mastina [2] - Titus, SlySly
plantsy [1] - Oversoul
Oversoul [1] - Leonshade
MaxwellPuckett [6] - Ramcius, plantsy, JaeReed, Creature, mhsmith0, Shiro
mhsmith0 [1] - Not_Mafia
itlepip [1] - Steven Quartz
JaeReed [1] - MaxwellPuckett

Not Voting: Imperium, mastina, KeySkiies, itlepip

9 to lynch
Deadline: (expired on 2017-07-01 14:42:16)[/color]

Maybe you hate me for being someone to ask this, but... what is the lowest level you have beaten Sephiroth in KH2?

[plantsy]

Hi mastina <3

[plantsy]

Conftowns are, like, scum's top target 99 % percent of time.

I don't think you are familiar with Boonskiies?

[plantsy]

nancy you're not allowed to tell her either!

Tell mastina? What am I not allowed to tell mastina?

[plantsy]

His playstyle doesn't matter. The very fact he is conftown makes him a target regardless of the way he plays. Take it from me, one of the worst players on site, and yet I happened to be one of the first player killed. Because I was considered conftown. Then another conftown got revealed. They got killed as well as soon as scum were able to do so.

Conftown=target

You don't know Boonskiies. Let me put it this way. I don't know how to be polite here. If Boonskiies is conf!town, he is a good vig shot. No smart scumteam would ever kill him.

[plantsy]

[plantsy]

Here is a quiz for you

1. A player is IC/near IC
2. A player is deemed 'unkillable' by scum by one or more players in a game
3. Scum kills that player anyway

Question: Why did the above scenario occur?

That would depend on whether someone said that because they had personal feelings that were clouding their judgement or whether it was an accurate assessment. Scum lost SU2, right?

[plantsy]

Yeah, dismiss my argument entirely even though it's rooted from experience. I may not know a player, but I know the fate of all ICs.

Here is a quiz for you

1. A player is IC/near IC
2. A player is deemed 'unkillable' by scum by one or more players in a game
3. Scum kills that player anyway

Question: Why did the above scenario occur?

I was an uncounterclaimed mason in a game with an open setup and I was left alive until 3p lylo because I wasn't having a good game.
In a game I backup modded for Frogger last year, Denmark mafia, scum left an innocent child alive until the very end (3p I think?) because she was also having a bad game.
So my opinion is also based on experience.

Often, the confirmed town is the right kill, like you say, but not always. It would be good for the doctor-or-whatever to not say who they are protecting but to say they are going to protect at random between 2-3 players so that scum won't know who is protected and who is not. So they say "maybe i will protect keyskiies or maybe i will protect imperium*" and then scum can't shoot either of them because the doctor might be protecting them.

*if they gladiate scum today and are not macho. Some other players could be in that list instead if they are macho.

pedit: we don't have to talk about it further, I'm fine with agreeing to disagree.

[plantsy]

I just want a good protect. That's all. I'll stop talking about it.

[plantsy]

nancy

Town:
KeySkiies
JaeReed
Imperium
Steven Quartz
Titus
mhsmith0

Nullish / to sort:
Not_Mafia
Ramcius
Oversoul
SlySly

Scum:
mastina
MaxwellPuckett
itlepip
Creature
Shiro
Leonshade

Plotinus

Town:
KeySkiies
JaeReed
Imperium
Steven Quartz
Not_Mafia

Nullish / to sort:
Ramcius
Titus
Shiro
Mastina
OverSoul
mhsmith
SlySly

Scum:
Creature
MaxwellPuckett
itlepip
Leonshade

middle ground

Town:
Keyskiies
JaeReed
Imperium
Steven Quartz

At least one head is townreading:
Titus
mhsmith0
Not_Mafia

Null:
Ramcius
Oversoul
SlySly

At least one head is scumreading:
mastina
Shiro

Scum:
Creature
MaxwellPuckett
itlepip
Leonshade

[plantsy]

level negative 900 million

my kingdom hearts skillz are unequaled

I thought you might say something like that. I <3 Sephiroth. So many special memories, I just love reflecting on all the time we spent bonding together over meteor showers.

[plantsy]

FUCK YOU JAE*, THAT'S PLAYING DIRTY.
*Quite literally. <3

You poor thing. (I knew all along.) <3

[plantsy]

Actually, this isn't true. The original bet didn't include today, and you slacked off both this morning and last night by chatting to myself and nancy instead of getting stuff done, despite my warning you that today is going to be busy. :3 You got distracted.

We both warned her.

[plantsy]

Also, my mind is doing all sorts of things re: mastina, Jae, and nancy, and Im not sure how I feel about it.

*cough*

[plantsy]

Maybe you hate me for being someone to ask this, but... what is the lowest level you have beaten Sephiroth in KH2?

Are you kidding? I love you for being someone to ask that! <3
I don't recall exactly when I did it on normal but it was in the high 60s. I'm not that far along on my critical run, I'm just now to my first Beast's Castle visit, so maybe I'll do better this time! :3

I was a little disappointed when I did it because I thought Fenrir would be an extra kickass keyblade but it ended up not being any better than the Ultima Weapon I already had at the time. Still, he was a pretty satisfying boss to beat since it took me a good amount of tries. I messed up that reaction command that parried his multi-hit attack more than I care to admit. >.>

Omg! Now I want to teach you! (Fenrir is actually the

worst possible

keyblade to be using against Sephiroth *unless* you're going for a style where you want like a 3-hit combo breaker which is a thing but not my favorite. Ultimate Weapon is probably best if you're high level but if you're low level the best one is probably... fuck I forget what it's called now it's been too long but whichever one gives you longer combos, basically with Sephiroth you want your combo break to be as delayed as possible (but not past like... 8 hits I think? because then he'll recover) and you need a ton of MP and MP potions because Reflect combos are kind of essential - so is dodge fly.) The lowest I've done it was level 12 with Kingdom Key and I basically just relied on Reflect and fly (I can't remember where you get the upgraded dodge fly thing but that is obviously essential to stop Heartless Angel and evade Meteor), you can really just wait through his combos with Reflect (get close to him when he does Firaga Wall and sit through it with I think 4 or 6 Reflects? can't remember exactly the number but when it finishes he'll take a boatload of damage, Meteor you can just dodge by flying, Omnislash you can defend with good timing and hit him with a riposte if you have that ability equipped or just use Reflect (later on when he's powered up you can't defend it so just use Reflect or jump dodge), against Shadow Flares use one or two Reflects (you really have to space out your Reflects to conserve MP) and that's pretty much it, the rest is just about timing and learning his patterns. Don't do the Reaction Command ever ever ever, it's awful and just wastes time where you could doing actual damage to him. <3

[plantsy]

The lowest I've done it was level 12 with Kingdom Key and I basically just relied on Reflect and fly (I can't remember where you get the upgraded dodge fly thing but that is obviously essential to stop Heartless Angel and evade Meteor),

You get glide by leveling up Final Form and the double jump thingy by leveling up Master Form. I'm impressed you could beat Sephiroth at level 12 with just the Kingdom Key! @_@
I did use reflect to deal with those dark orbs he used from time to time but I didn't think to use it on the firewall, I just ran away when he did that. I'll try that next time. Thanks for the tips. ^_^

You can actually just beat him without even attacking once (and use the high MP keyblade) because Reflect does so much damage to him, it's kind of funny. With the Firaga Wall you just let yourself get sucked in so once it's over he's basically just Firaga Walled himself. But if you keep Reflecting after he's done then he won't take any damage cause the Reflect won't discharge. Also I remembered you don't actually want long combos necessarily, what you want is multiple combo finishers.

NERDS

Unapologetically.

[plantsy]

Tammy, we miss you...

[plantsy]

I was going for an alternative tactic to sorting you, but that's been impossible due to my inactivity here, so: why do you want me gladiated? I know that you're scumreading me, but I want to hear why, and why to the extent that you'd have me gladiated, instead of the player that the town majority agrees on.

@plantsy

You're my strongest and most stable scumread, that's why. There has never been any point where you were above null. At most I have felt that some of your posts were vaguely towny but overall I just haven't felt any life from you at all. I think it's natural to want our strongest scumread gladiated? Do you disagree?

What was your alternative tactic for sorting us?


Sephiroth is most fun at lower levels, I think. At higher levels it just becomes a marathon, how long will it take for me to slowly whittle him down. At lower levels you need perfect feeling for his movements or you will instantly die, it's very thrilling.

[plantsy]

Well, at least in part because of the kind of posts you're making right now, where I can't see what kind of sorting value your inquiries have for you at all. I mean, what did you hope to get from askng why we want you gladiated? The answer should be fairly intuitive, so unless you're actually leading somewhere with this or there was some very specific and personal concern you had that you were trying to resolve (and you haven't interacted with me before so I don't know why that would be in any case) I just don't see what you're doing. It feels rather phony.

[plantsy]

VOTE: Oversoul

That mastina post got me to ISO Oversoul, as I hadn't paid attention to him yet, and his ISO is not good. Oversoul has mostly spent his time asking irrelevant questions with little follow up, or making points that have nothing to do with alignment, like correcting itlepip on his mistake about the amount of scum in the setup. These are not bad on their own, but they form pretty much his entire ISO, while he's still on what appears to be his RVS vote. I think it shows that his motivation is to look active, rather than to read people.

Oversoul, do you scumread Statler & Waldorf? What are your reads?

It's posts like this that make me scumread you. The most basic way to describe this post for me is that there's nothing between the lines. It's a neatly justified read, it has all of the stepping stones to arrive at the vote, they all seem good, you even have a little bit in there about what you think Oversoul's motivation could be and some follow-up questions. But there's nothing in this post that tells me that you have actually sorted this read. There are none of the breaks and skips in reasoning that almost always exist as a result of a natural town thought process. It's flat. There's no depth to it. There's no drive.

[plantsy]

HI JAEREED

[plantsy]

hi Tammy!

[plantsy]

@Leon: I'm not nancy, but can you see how if you put "leon's scumgame is weak" together with "leon isn't doing anything interesting this game" a reasonable person would wind up with "therefore leon is probably scum"?

I went back through our hydra PT and whichever scumteams we were thinking of, you were always in them. A lot of our reads have changed over the course of the game in response to new information and we reset a few times rereading the thread but our read on you hasn't. I guess that'd mean we'd get less information from your flip because you've seemed to be scum with almost everybody at various points in the game. But we're lynching scum not for information so.

If you're town after all then you need to put some effort in this week. The day phase ends a week from Saturday so the gladiate will start no later than next Wednesday.

[plantsy]

I am liking Max a lot more and plantsy a lot less in the last few pages.

where is your vigour? whenever you push us, it's always these weak little pushes like you're scared we'll push back.

[plantsy]

Instead, your wish is to use the gladiate as a tool to force the lynch of your own scumread. I probably wouldn't be today's lynch by regular means, which is why a gladiate is the best way to get me lynched. This worries me, as the nancy-head of the hydra should know that my scum game is not that strong, while I can be pretty damn good as town once I get going. Scumreading me early on is easy, especially when I've been inactive, but it becomes increasingly harder to lynch me as the game keeps going and people start to see my scumhunting in action. That is why your call for my gladiate worries me. I would expect nancy to know that it's not difficult to lynch scum!Leon later, whereas gladiating me is the best chance of scoring a mislynch on me.

I'm not going to say I know what optimal use of gladiate is but I'd guess that using it on a consensus scumread is not optimal? Like, why gladiate someone who is already going to be lynched without it, unless they just want the investigative? I don't actually think your scumgame is that weak, I've seen better examples of your scumgame than Girls ♥ Girls 1 and you replaced into a weird situation there. I'm not an expert of your meta but I do know from Civ that you can get good reads as town, I just haven't seen anything that feels town from you so far so I don't feel like BoP is enough for me to hold off. I haven't been actively pushing you because I wanted to give you space to do things, because I don't want to influence other people's reads at this point in the game if I can avoid it and because I much prefer to be passive in thread early rather than making the pushes I want because my reads develop much better this way. Sorry if you feel neglected.

This is why I consider the call for a gladiate to make more tactical sense from scum!nancy than a town one. Combine that with the fact that you were calling for it without explaining your top scumread until specifically asked (and using the post asking why as an example to scumread him), and I see more scum motivation than town for your actions. There is also my alternative tactic for reading nancy I'm looking at, which requires more time, but isn't pointing town thus far.

I don't think that reading people off how they treat your slot is exactly an alternative tactic? But okay, that's not really going to be fruitful to get into so I'll just leave it. It was Plotinus who posted in thread that they wanted you gladiated, by the way, not me. Imperium is also the one who controls the gladiate, we mentioned our preference once I think, we've barely pushed on you, Imperium was already scumreading you, so I don't really get your angle here, sorry.

[plantsy]

Anyway I will be active here from here on out. I'll try to get some real barrings in this game in the next day or two!

Yay! <3

[plantsy]

There was a lot of buddying going on between mastina and plantsy early game that I think leads more to being a not-partners set of interactions.

Wait was there? I don't even remember that.

I agree it's unfortunate how weird the gamestate is with the Gladiate, I do think we got some good information from the Maxwell wagon though. (Can't tell if that actually spurred them to catch up or not.)

VOTE: Leonshade

[plantsy]

Not flirting, buddying. Diff things.
From my notes in 635 if you want the plantsy to mastina side of it that I was concerned about before our meltdown. But during mastina's catch up after my entrance there's a lot of points where she agrees with you on me that could be the flip side if she's scum.

I know you didn't meant flirting. I just assumed subconscious by me. I guess I find it weird that you think I was buddying mastina because she's been south of null for me the whole game. I never really understood how you got buddying from the posts that you listed there since it was just me talking about reads, but I guess I can kinda see it at a stretch. (Incidentally, I was also scumreading for those notes back then because I just thought they were bs. )

[plantsy]

Also to the later post, basically I think the scum reads have bled town and the townreads have done literally nothing. How the hell do you scumread Leon and Creature but townread SQ and SW.

I'm not townreading SW personally but I liked the aggressive self-meta from SQ at the start of the game and I've liked their thread presence since then. They feel pretty no-nonsense. This is more of a Plotinus read that they've talked to me about and brought me around to agreeing with but I did really like the interaction we had earlier around who to use protection on. I also have to admit that the softclaim definitely factors into the read, but they'd probably still be a townread regardless.

[plantsy]

Anyway, Plotinus thinks there's a chance we may be conf!biasing on our Leonshade scumread the way we did with JaeReed (and it's something that kind of popped into my head too at moments) because of his scummy opening and we just need him to do something really blindingly town to snap us out of it but I've never had any of the same feelings about that read the way I did with JaeReed so I don't know. I'm going to trawl through his ISO later all over again from the start and just talk about everything I like and don't like and hopefully from that people can tell me if I really am conf!biasing or not.

[plantsy]

Leonshade! We really liked your recent posting! I'm super tired right now and I need to sleep but you've inspired me, I'll go through your ISO first thing when I wake up!

Can I ask why you have itlepip as a townlean?

[plantsy]

idk why mhsmith0 seems to be lurking this game.

Hi Creature. I don't think there's a wagon on you right now and we'd really like to be giving you space to do things so we could feel better about your slot but so far we haven't seen you do many things and it's making us a bit sad. Do you have any reads you feel conflicted on right now? Is there something you would like to talk about or some way we can help you get motivated?

[plantsy]

You mean reads I'm unsure about?

What do you think about Maxwell?

Yes, reads you're unsure about or want someone to talk about to bounce thoughts. We liked Maxwell early on but then the slot took a bit of a heavy dip for us with some of their posting while they weren't quite catching up and not really making any attempt to catch up. Since then we've liked them more as they've caught up and I like their progression on JaeReed in particular so it's a slot that I think we're both starting to feel a little better about but we're still not sure and we're waiting to see from them. Hopefully they don't just recede back into inactivity now that they aren't being wagoned. What are your thoughts?

[plantsy]

hi nacho!

[plantsy]

Hi Tammy! (Wait, is it Nacho?)

pedit I knew it!

[plantsy]

Tammy do you have anything you want to talk about for 10 minutes before I go to sleep?

[plantsy]

oh, i thought Tammy used capital letters on her sentences. Sorry, Tammy! It's good to see you!

pedit: also sorry if it's confusing that nancy and I are typing at the same time.

[plantsy]

No no, Tammy doesn't capitalize, neither do you, Nacho capitalizes and so do I! It's easy!

[plantsy]

OK. There is a lot of noise from emotional things, so good luck wading through that, try not to get bogged down and we'll be here as you catch up if you have anything you want to talk about along the way.

[plantsy]

Well, it will just be Plotinus now, for the next few hours. Goodnight! <3

pedit I know you do! There are other ways to tell you two apart too! I think I can do it because I caught you both as alts pretty quickly! <3

[plantsy]

I do capital letters sometimes!

pedit: Good night friend nancy!

It's easier to tell friend Imperium apart when they are writing more words than they had at that time written.

[plantsy]

Oh, we were going to move our vote.

UNVOTE: Leonshade

[plantsy]

I don't like the way some of his reads don't make sense, for example people he talks about as if he's scumreading them are suddenly town on his readslist, like:

Jae -912 +916
Mastina -914 +916

This is straight up false? In 912, he talks about the point where he switched from a scumread to a townread, a point which closely parallels my read progression on Jae. In 914 he says that he was paranoid of the role, but townread mastina's play. Both of these read progressions are also clear over their ISO. You're cherry picking two posts that could be misconstrued as supporting the point you're making, when the point is clearly false if you look at the larger context. It looks like you're trying to come off as having put in more work into your reads than you actually have. It's a neat narrative, but the substance doesn't add up. It really is theater.

Okay, so I went back and looked at reread 912 to see if I'm misreading it and now I am misunderstanding something, so let me try to figure out what's going on. If I write line by line what I think it's saying, maybe someone can correct me because I thought in 912 he came to the conclusion that Jae and Mastina are scum.

Mastina: tried working on Jae (TLDR: iso sucks up till the mastina explanation then everything is good and it makes me sad) and everything flows through Mastina.

Itlepip, talking to Mastina, says that he tried to read Jae's ISO. Jae's ISO sucked until he read her explanation about mastina and then everything is good and it makes him sad? is itlepip sad that he thinks Jae is scum or? why would he be sad that she was town? but then why is everything good if she is scum?

I don't think I am going to really sort this slot but going to try.

Are we still talking about Jae? or maybe about Mastina now?

Spoiler: mastina quote

I'm loved so I belive mhs hated claim - and mastina said she believe mhs hatd claim so I made a "hmm?" and she wrote an ssay about how it could be anything - so I made a comment about how It felt forced.
explain why and how you compared this to code geass?
#Rylai

Also for the record I maintain that hated/loved both in the same game would not be on a scumteam together because cutesy shit like that I just don't see as being done, even with the influence of TTH. It'd either be one town/one scum or both town.

Further, I would like to say that while I'm not sure he's town for it I at least really like mhsmith's posting on the page (he's asking a lot of good questions which seem to have decent drive behind them), and in contrast nothing Frozen Angel is saying is giving me warm fuzzy vibes.

The hated/love thing is a more towny mindset, not overwhelming though

itlepip gives mastina some town points.

Spoiler: mastina quote

Oh, look, they are loved. We can actually test it out now. Shall we test it out?
Actually, I believe it without it being tested out do to the friendship KH theme pushed into this.

There's really no reason to doubt the legitimacy of the claim.

They are truthful no matter what.

There is however reason to doubt the timing/way of claiming.

I don't get what is wrong with the timing of the claim and the fact that Mastina doesn't explain it isn't great, probably NAI.

Itlepip disagrees with mastina and wishes she would explain something but gives neither townpoints nor scumpoints.

Spoiler: mastina quote

Mastina said they can't vote in any day but mylo/lylo
#Rylai

Yes which makes me wonder why the fuck the hated/loved claims made no mention of this in their claims because that's a really fucking important detail which I can't imagine is absent from their role PMs. I really don't believe that my voting-related PM shuts off at mylo/lylo and yet theirs do not.

okay yeah so the there probably is something here, though a day vig by voting?? (that would be a horrible role) would make this work I see what people meant about Mastina's claim. I still think it is probably a lie that still shuts off at lylo so it would be gamebreaking during lylo. I feel like most of those roles would be scum so this is a point against mastina iff she is actually lying.

Itlepip thinks that if mastina is lying about her role, then she is scum.

Spoiler: mastina quote

I don't understand why ppl are TRing her.

Neither do I to be honest.

The reaction I was expecting was for people to be scumreading me.

My change in playstyle is still relatively new. And this game is filled to the brim with players who have experience with me--most of them not having encountered this change at all or if they

have

encountered it, in the game it came from where I was scum (that is, as House Bolton).

Yet I'm not getting those and it's not something I can make sense of. I'm not scum so I have no scumbuddies. Even if I were scum the absolute last thing I'd do is tell them to defend me; quite the opposite, I'd absolutely above all else insist they NOT defend me. (Because I am fully confident in my ability to defend myself, and IF I fail, I don't want them to go down because of it; if THEY go down, I don't want to go down because of their incompetence in having defended me when I needed no defense.)

But the people who are defending me are, by and large...not people who I'm scumreading. The obvious simple answer to that would be the townreads there are wrong, of course, since I'm not perfect with my reads especially not so early--yet. I honestly don't think this is scum white knighting? I tend to be reasonably good at identifying scum trying to pocket me. I tend to be reasonably skilled at identifying scum buddying me, buttering up to me, defending me when I need no defense.

...But the defense I am seeing of me is, by and large, with the possible exception of Frozen Angel...not looking like that. It looks like town players defending me, and I'm still trying to figure out how that happened since that kinda fucks with my style for random town players I've never really had synergy with to be strongly townreading me.

A long post about how the game is going if you are scum and the general weirdness of this post is kinda scummy.

Itlepip assigns mastina some scumpoints.

Spoiler: mastina quote

Can you talk about your FA read more?

Well for a start?

For someone who called me out on my content being forced...

...Her content looks an awfully lot like it is fucking forced.

Beyond that, there's all the things she's doing--rather, not so much doing, as not doing. Her posts have callouts which ring as hollow and empty. She asked about my questioning of your hated claim...and did nothing with my answer.

She called my posts as being forced.
She did nothing with it--no vote on me.
She explicitly avoided taking a stance on me in fact.
While still casting shade on me.

Her vote on RC/Titus feels like it's a vote placed which she is "supposed" to make, not one which she would naturally make.

It's little stuff. Just added up. I don't see passion. I don't see desire to gamesolve. I see posts. I see things which are meant to look good. I don't see anything which looks like it is actually driving the game forward in a pro-town direction. She's largely reactive, rather than proactive. She's not aggressive. She's just...too passive.

I mean that early in the game this is almost certainly a stretch although I do agree with it about FA early seeming off. Most of Mastina's posts I agree with but are streches, which is hard to decide how to read.

itlepip is on the fence.

Also there is how fake the voteless claim feels, then the oversoul scumread which is yet to be explained by 290

Itlepip gives mastina some more scum points.

300 really isn't WKing,
311 This is the waffling that liked so much, Jae has better meta so sure? it will be towny, Really like 313 btw, 311 is just kinda a worse version. 313 is a lot why I didn't ever look into voting Mastina.

itlepip likes some of mastina's posts.

I really agree with Mastina's opinion of Jae's entrance, especially on rereading both.

Itlepip agrees with mastina's opinion of Jae's entrance: that Jae is scum.

743: love this post, but I am also super scared by Mastina from it, if I switch my opinion and want to kill her later this sort of posting is going to make it impossible.

Itlepip worries mastina will be hard to lynch; this feels like more of a scum worry than a town worry.

760: this is one of those times where town doesn't see that they could be scum from a weaker player. Based on the quality of play so far I feel worse using that read though... I really hope my read on Mastina's role is wrong and killing her doesn't become super important later. However I am liking this slot right now.

itlepip is still on the fence about mastina.

811 makes no sense to me.

819 is pretty solid and I will probably have some convoloted reason why the gamestate shifted far enough from a jae lynch that mastina shifted, but this is the exact waffling that Jae pointed to early to make Mastina town. (Also to be clear this post also made me feel better about Jae the same why Jae did about Mastina, so unless they are both scum together if I am wrong on either one of you it is the other's fault )

I can't tell if he's saying they're scum or town here. it seems like kind of both?

Overall a slot that I will not lynch today dispite huge reservations over their role. If they don't vote in the next 2-3 days I will PL, but right now a fairly slot right now. Same thing applies to Jae (have a draft I might come back to but most of it just how good the progression on Mastina is).

He doesnt want to lynch her but he doesn't want to call her town either.



I wanted to look again at the other couple posts there but I can't tonight, my language processing isn't up for this right now.

[plantsy]

I thought Jae was scum until I saw her explanation of her Mastina read, then the progression from her original townread to the explanation was very good in my opinion. Thus for me sorting Jae was more about whether or not I believed that read on Mastina, if I did then Jae is a townread, else she isn't. Also I am sad because I don't feeling like I was wrong about reads. Scum Jae was my strongest read until that explanation. By 912 I had a strong townread on Jae and a medium townread on Mastina with some reservations about her role.

Thank you, that helps. I will update my numbers thing. I've been a bit sick these past few weeks, thought it was food poisoning but it's 12 days later so I don't know what it is but I've been making most of the ISOmaps on paper while reading on my phone and then typing them up later when I feel up to it, and I feel like I'm missing nuances as a result.

I'm going to guess -914 is probably going to become +914?

Trying to figure out who is talking in KeySkiies at any given point is too much effort to try to sort such a nonfactor slot. Probably not in favor of a lynch there though today. They need to do way more for me to actually not want them dead. Looking like a mild slot that just kinda dies halfway through the game right now.

Pedit: I know, this was mostly for myself so I'm not sure the logic went through. Basically she knows in her role that shutting off at lylo is explicit, which means she has access to a role that shuts off near mylo/lylo with some interaction with voting. Either she is telling the truth, in which who cares; otherwise in the lying world either she has a fake voteless claim from the mod or! Her role also shuts off at lylo.

The roles that would need to shut off at mylo/lylo are mostly scum and all really powerful the day before. Therefore this fact made me more scared of Mastina's role despite my read of the slot.

I think why I was marking this as a scumread/push was that you're focusing in on the possibility that she's lying (+I think i missed the word despite).


You have since gotten tired of not proving her role, though, right? I have -1130 and -1337 which from memory was probably on the subject of mastina doesn't want to vote yet.

I feel like I've seen Mastina being coy about her role and gambitting with roles and Mastina coming up with Plans^TM enough times as town that I don't really care about it except that it feels like a giant distaction that's eaten half the game.

[plantsy]

Good night, friends!

and frenemies

[plantsy]

@nancy can I talk about this with regards to the emotional stuff? I don't like not being able to explain my read.

If it's going to be an issue for people then I suppose yes? I mean, as far as the game is concerned it's essentially just AtE, so while it is extremely personal I don't think that it's particularly relevant to them? But you can talk about it in paraphrase if you need to.

From my perspective it's... JaeReed was going through some stuff IRL that affected my read on them which I didn't take into account, and I pushed on them. So they thought that I was scum taking advantage of their weakness. When they said so later I was really hurt that they could think that I would do that and at that point they were a super strong scumread for me so I thought they were being manipulative because of that and that made it worse. So I poured out my emotions to them in the spoiler. Later JaeReed opened up emotionally as well in a spoiler and basically from that I realized what had happened and we both apologized and resolved it. Bringing RL into games is bad and messy and we should have set up boundaries before the game but I didn't expect anything like that to happen so I didn't think it was necessary. Sorry for that everyone.

Feel free to clarify in any other ways that you feel you need to JaeReed, that is a fairly basic overview. Hopefully we don't have to keep bringing this up over and over again.

[plantsy]

This game however is...harder.
I just am not having that same joy.
Instead of having a role I adore, I hold a role I absolutely loathe.

mastina I have been ignoring you most of this game because you have been below null and I haven't felt like you wanted to be talked to. You've been going on mini rants about your scumreads and I haven't really gotten the sense that you wanted to talk to anyone about them so much as just... talk about them. If you do want to talk then you know where to find me but I need you to make that step because right now I'm not feeling it either with you. The second part to that is that it's day 1, I haven't fully found my feet yet, and right now I'm waiting for you to catch up so that I can begin to get a better feel for my read of you because it went from about 30% to about 50% with your last catchup and I'm waiting for it to get to at least 70% so that I can feel comfortable engaging you. You also *have* been really inactive here and I can't do anything with someone who is first of all in perpetual catchup and second of all not here to talk when I want her to be. I really wish you had reached out to me at some point because I was waiting for it but I just don't know if it's going to happen at this point so here I am having to do the reaching out. Come talk.

[plantsy]

(I didn't forget you!)

Spoiler: @Leonshade

VOTE: Statler and Waldorf

Two second gen Pokemon avatars, neither of them Cyndaquil.

Slightly awkward RVS entry? Weirdly specific, so it feels a little too thought-out.

My first impression was to like Gamma's reasoning for his R&L vote, but it's true that he made the connection between FA's post and FA being a mod in Code Geass really quickly. That said, I think it's likely that Gamma as a player would remember something he got caught for previously, and use that in his own scumhunting. So I don't consider him using that tell on FA artificial, but as it strikes me as something he's aware of, I think it's null in the end.

So what bothers me about this is the way you make assumptions about other people's thought processes here in order to support your conclusion, and how you are not really seeming to do anything with this information. If you are really sorting Gamma here, why do you just decide that he would remember that? Why do you like the reasoning in the first place? What conclusion do you draw from the speed at which he made the connection? I just feel like you are being really surface level here and not really digging in to sort Gamma.

This is a nuanced and reasonable stance. FA notices something about mastina's playstyle, but tries to figure her out, instead of simply pushing her on account of the difference she notics. Townpoints for R&L.

Here again I don't feel you are doing anything with this. It comes across as commentary. I don't see why town makes this post? Maybe it's playstyle, but I don't see why you would comment on every post you think has a reasonable argument just to say so? So again, since you haven't really done anything with this observation, it feels a little like an easy way to give and get townpoints.

You can also get some townpoints, original target and the level of aggression.

Again, it's surface level. Scum can have original targets, scum can be aggressive. So this doesn't feel like real sorting to me.

You could've just said "this is a gambit" and achieved the same result. The effort to prove your claim is minimal, so your refusal to do so makes it obviously false.

Don't really feel you are making genuine attempts to sort mastina here. I feel like you are assuming the worst here just like you assumed the best before, to support your conclusion. Why is it obviously false? Why do you assume that it's a gambit? How did you reach these thoughts/conclusions? I just don't see the work.

I don't know enough about FA's play to know if the meta is compelling, but this is compelling reasoning.

Okay, but why? I don't know where to find what work you are doing with any of this. It's around here that this develops more into a scumread (as much as it can be by 10 posts), not because you've done anything actively scummy, but because you're just kind of... lifeless.

Wow is this a bad reaction to two STRONG posts mastina made. Not just this post, but your entire reaction to it. You go out of your way to dance around her points, not truly responding to her, and you downplay her expressed read as mere paranoia. Your only defense amounts to "why would scum!Jae act scummy?".

I don't really like this post because I don't really feel this is sorting Jae, in fact I don't know what purpose this post has aside from commentary. You don't do anything with it - you don't seem to want to talk to Jae to understand them, you don't offer any insight about Jae's behavior if the post is intended for other people, so the post just kind of feels like it's sitting there for nothing.

Is this vote based on nothing but her using the term "soulread"? As she explained her reasons for scureading RC.

I explained my reasons much later. Here I don't really feel that you are interested in communicating with Ramcius, just saying something about what is happening and asking a question that doesn't really have any trajectory.

Page 18: Still liking itlepip for town. I want to see more from Creature, I feel like claiming to be bored could be an excuse for his scum play.

I wish this post had any meaningful thought in it. By 18 pages I would have really hoped for some original content from you... I don't think you ever mentioned itlepip before this.

Trying to build a wagon on me, still with no reasoning given. Worse, this post is straight up misrep, as my vote on S and W was an RVS vote. This is inherently manipulative, trying to use anything possible to get people to vote for me.

I don't understand your point about your RVS point, I don't think JaeReed was voting you because you were on that wagon? I don't know. This feels kind of stretchy from you but I understand the JaeReed scumread entirely and why you might feel inclined to just attack them there (I did the same thing).

My catch-uo is still ongoing, but now that you're here, let's talk. Why did you place that vote on me when you did?

I'm phneposting on a train, so I'm keeping things brief.

I like that you are trying to talk to JaeReed here, but I don't really think foneposting makes a difference? Maybe it's just because it doesn't seem to for me and I shouldn't expect others to be the same. (The only thing I really have significant trouble with when foneposting is connecting different posts that I've seen, and formatting.) Idk this is like a nothing point but basically I'm not just going to cut you slack because you're foneposting.

I want to know why you're going out of your way to not be transparent, if you're town. We both remember Civ Mafia, you spent all game tunneling me, and you largely spent that time pointing out posts that might look scummy, instead of truly interacting with me. Jae was scum fir those of you not in that game.

I'm not sure why you'd try that play twice, as you failed to mislynch me in that game (though discrediting me and my reads did help that scum win a lot). However, your play thus far is reminding me more of Civ Mafia than our other games together.

Again, I like that you are trying to engage JaeReed and get something out of them, but I guess I have mixed feelings about how heavily you are referencing Civ mafia because it feels kind of arbitrary and weak. Maybe that's just a disagreement on how to use meta, I don't know.

And I won't townread you just because "scum wouldn't do the same thing twice", that's a good way to get away with the same trick again. If you want me to believe that you're town, I want you to actually talk to me, not past me. And this vote won't come off until you do.

VOTE: JaeReed

I remember thinking at the time this felt like scum posturing, but I can also see it now that maybe you were genuine? I don't know, there seemed to be something that didn't add up with how you expressed your scumread, like how you just attacked them earlier, how you were treating your other reads earlier, and how you seemed to be so ready to believe that they were town despite the scumread here. That's more of a weak sense, though. I still don't really like the reliance on Civ mafia meta and how your read seems to revolve around that, and how you're kind of discrediting them with it. I wish I had more of a sense from you that you were trying to dig into JaeReed's motivations here in this game rather than drawing on meta and making abstract comparisons.

I'm trying to engage with you right now. This all started with a naked vote from you onto me, waiting for me to come in before explaining any of it. That's not inherently scummy, and could have been a vote for the sake of reactions. But you tried to build a wagon on me with manipulation, all while reefusing to explain why people should scumread me.

I wish this felt more like trying to find motivation than just giving commentary. I don't agree that there was manipulation, but even if there was I don't see what you are doing with that except to discredit? Like, if it was manipulation why was it scummy? And why is trying to wagon someone scummy just out of RVS? I don't see you really trying to parse that. I just kind of see you pointing out behavior and assuming that other people will find it scummy, rather than truly scumhunting. I like that you seem frustrated by the lack of engagement from JaeReed, though.

Oh, you mean this one? I was never on "the wagon", S&W was pure RVS.

P-edit: I've never pushed the wagon, and I'm currently voting for Jae.

This was my vote. I think this is the only comment I've made on the slot.

I guess I kinda like how you are insistent about feeling misrepresented and trying to correct that?

Ok, Jae is town. There's zero chance that comes from scum.

UNVOTE:

Also thinking about TRing plantsy by proxy of Jae's interactions with her, nut that's too personal and emotionally charged for me to wade into.

I really don't like the sudden swing here and it kind of plays off my feelings earlier that you were kind of soft-pushing on JaeReed to try to give an appearance of sorting them without really wanting to commit to a scumread, and leaving yourself open for the townread when they started to be obvtown. I just don't get how you are so freely giving this townread to someone you had real suspicions about, even to the extent that you would townread me from it.

She's been active in other games. I don't know what her ignoring this game says about her alignment, if anything, but it's worth noting.

Is it really, though? Anyone who has played here for a decent amount of time should know that selectively paying attention to games doesn't mean much, unless it's specific to someone's meta maybe, but even then it's kinda sketchy for this to be the focus and I don't think it's AI at all. In mastina's case, it's absolutely not AI because if mastina is intentionally lurking one game she will lurk in all games. And again, just considering your post, you haven't done anything with this information, it's like you're saying it just for the sake of saying it. (The same feeling I've gotten from so many of your posts by this point.)

Having thought it through, this is a situation where town is more likely to lie than scum. mastina claimed the role right off the bat, which would've opener her up to a counterclaim if there actually was a voteless in this game. The extra attention is obviously more dangerous for scum than town, so if he's lying, I'm more inclined to think she's town. There's also little scum benefit in trying to pretend that you're voteless, besides perhaps the WIFOM element of "scum wouldn't do that".

The above does also make me more inclined to believe her claim, even if it's still weird that she won't simply prove it (unless voting would receive a mod punishment?). The role itself is obviously null, so there's little point in trying to read mastina off of it.

I just don't know what all of this accomplished. It feels like busywork. You're not really taking any stance here with this or doing anything with it.

I don't really feel comfortable trying to read FA's alignment due to the strong emotions, and she's not around to answer my questions. I'll note this and move on.

I don't like this, feels like a cop-out, sorry.

Wait, now I remember you, you quickhammered town D1 in Normal Idea Mafia.

Could you explain why your ISO here was so brief, and why you're putting in so much more effort here?

This is okay I guess, wanting to understand some broader change in meta can be helpful to get a read on a slot. I just wish you were doing more, and picking at things that are actually in this game.

This seems like a town claim. Not only is this the most pro-town claim and use of the PR, it's also the worst for scum (giving them less control over mislynches, putting the gladiator at risk if they choose poorly). All of this is claimed unpressured, from a player/players (don't know about Tammy) with confidence in their scumgame. Literally the only reason for scum to claim this now would be for the towncred, and I don't see Nacho putting scum in a worse position for towncred, when they could just play their usual scumgame and save the role for when it serves them better.

I don't know, it just feels so showy. I mean, this is really really obviously a town role. If they are scum they have absolutely no way to justify staying alive with or without the macho modifier, so... I guess it feels like kind of unnecessary talk.

I forgot about the bookie role, that makes the D1 gladiator hard town.

Why should that make a difference? I don't get it.

I caught up, then interacted with, suspected but eventually townread Jae. I now have townreads (Jae, Imperium) as well as a townlean (itlepip). I don't currently have a scumread to push, as I just lost my previous one. The people I feel worst about are people like Creature and S&W, but solely because they're doing less than I would expect them to. But this game has been pretty toxic, so it's hard for me to say whether the inactivity is due to alignment, or simply people avoiding this game.

I don't have a read on mastina yet, but I have no reason to scumread them. I don't think wagon speed is an accurate way to read anyone's alignment.
I think the game is static because it's still young, many are lurking and the most active people have been struggling with personal drama that is turning others off this game.

I wish you had anything substantial to say by now...

I don't want to push Creature yet, despite suspecting that he's scum, as I feel the pressure might just demotivate him more, if he's town. I'll give him time to get into the game, it should eventually become clear if he's town.

I do like this post though. I feel like scum!you would probably be more interested in pushing Creature and calling him out for lurking rather than just recognizing his behavior and trying to let him do his thing? Especially since you probably would like something to push right now, if you're scum, to seem busy?

VOTE: Oversoul

That mastina post got me to ISO Oversoul, as I hadn't paid attention to him yet, and his ISO is not good. Oversoul has mostly spent his time asking irrelevant questions with little follow up, or making points that have nothing to do with alignment, like correcting itlepip on his mistake about the amount of scum in the setup. These are not bad on their own, but they form pretty much his entire ISO, while he's still on what appears to be his RVS vote. I think it shows that his motivation is to look active, rather than to read people.

Oversoul, do you scumread Statler & Waldorf? What are your reads?

I've already talked about part of why I don't like this post. I'm unnerved that it kind of comes out of nowhere, since it's kind of convenient timing when you didn't have any scumreads, but I could just be playing that up too much in my head. More so I don't like the way you've expressed the read, it feels so A+B=C and I don't think you are genuinely looking at what he is doing so much as taking what you can work with and pushing on that. Feels like a really easy target, and I'm uneasy about how you seem to treat mastina without paranoia and as if she is a townread despite not having engaged with her and having said before that you can't sort her. (I'd say right here is where you become a solid scumread enough for me that I'd want you gladiated.)

I'll get ahead of the setup spec and say that TTH does like including scum who's informed of/linked to the conftown player (my role in Spyro, the game Magna linked in Spyro once I claimed that). For the same reason, it's possible that SlySly is town here, to subvert the mod meta. Thus I read the claim as null.

Plotinus was thinking at the time that if you are scum, SlySly is probably more likely to be town from this. Because you are just so noncommital and uninvested here. You don't seem to care much at all one way or the other. You haven't dug into it, haven't done anything with this information, just call it null and move on, I feel like you really should care much more and be trying to take different kinds of angles if you are town trying to grok this claim.

That's certainly odd, but why do you consider it scummy? Sly has a quirky playstyle anyway, but even disregarding meta, SlySly used his vote in weird ways and was transparent about it.

There have been some interactions with you and itlepip that have felt weakly like partner interactions (you have more knowledge / familiarity of each other than you let on), and this one also feels just slightly like that. I just don't get the sense that you are really trying to understand him, and your reasons feel more like justifications in a kind of ad-hoc way than the result of you continuously sorting Sly. I also don't see how Sly was transparent about his votes, or why you are soft defending him here when you have had no interactions with him at all in the game so far.

Sorry if it seems rushed... because, well, I did it in a rush. I didn't get to finish it unfortunately but I have to go because my girlfriend needs me, so I'll do the second half tomorrow.

[plantsy]

Foneposting but Shiro I don't think that nothing really matters? Why do you think everyone thinks that? I don't like you saying that very much to be really honest because you have done nothing at all since FA left and I'm sorry but blaming another slot is a really sketchy approach to the gamestate / your inactivity.

@Jae no I don't think you were right there but I understand how you'd see that.

Ours.

I haven't been inactive and I have done stuff, I am not one to defend myself when I have done nothing and this game isn't it >.> I am saying so because pretty much I get the feeling we are circling conversation.

Like seriously, excuse me for not being able to match FA volume and in comparison it seems like I am doing nothing

It's not a matter of volume. You can contribute without spamming the thread. You haven't. You do have 49 posts, which surprised me you had that many because you aren't leaving an impression on the game. Your posts are lifeless and dull. Since Monday you've only had 3 posts that were about something, an empty wall on Max in 1401, some talk with Titus about Max in 1433, some talk with Titus about Mastina and Max on Tuesday in 1436 and nothing much since then.

Which of your reads do you care the most about them?

[plantsy]

Mastina, if Titus is keeping you out of the game, put her on ignore for a while and sort the other 15 slots. You being here and posting is more important right now. If you have to skim past her posts to read the rest of the thread then do that and come back to her when you've found your footing.

[plantsy]

Also, mastina, it could be worse, instead of voteless you could be a dayvig voter.

pedit: she might see it in a pedit though!

[plantsy]

Shiro, can you do a reads list with tiers?

Also it maybe true that I'm holding you to a higher standard than Oversoul, Not_Mafia, and Yume, but I remember how much more present you were in WiFoM city and I know it was a long time ago and I don't have anymore more recent on you than that but it felt like you were here, there, in a way that you aren't here, here, if that makes sense. I do expect more of you than what you are doing here.

As for Max, nancy did kinda like his more recent posts I think but we also want him to be doing more than he is.

As for Imperium yeah I've been pretty sad about their lack of presence because they're the reason I signed up to play at all and I had such high hopes of being in-thread-masons with them again but them not being here isn't an excuse to do nothing and it looks like that's about to change and they're almost certainly town here so whatever. And the timing for jumping on them when they've only got half the thread read is weird? Like they prodge for two weeks and now they're here and you want them to gladiate before they finish reading the thread?

complaining that other people are also coasting doesn't resolve you of the obligation to do stuff.

[plantsy]

I guess you're not my secret scumread anymore.

VOTE: Shiro

[plantsy]

Why do you have imperium as almost certainly town?

Their role and the way you're using it + The early claim + I feel like with both heads prodging it is somewhat encouraging that Tammy's taking point + 597 felt towner than not. I like the tone in which Nacho talked about his reads. I don't have him as locktown (though nancy does) because I need more data; I feel like Nacho can go for a while without dropping the tells I have on him but he can't go forever without it and if he had more than that one spurt of posting eleven days ago then I'd be sure by now but I'm not.

+ some other things.

[plantsy]

Thank you for the reads list, Shiro. It's possible I'm misremembering WiFoM city or confusing you with someone else. I didn't go look it up and had forgotten you replaced in so late.

I need to make lunch now.

[plantsy]

Hi Tammy! Jae's probably asleep but here's a post from nancy and another from jae where they explained it to someone else recently.

Spoiler:

@nancy can I talk about this with regards to the emotional stuff? I don't like not being able to explain my read.

If it's going to be an issue for people then I suppose yes? I mean, as far as the game is concerned it's essentially just AtE, so while it is extremely personal I don't think that it's particularly relevant to them? But you can talk about it in paraphrase if you need to.

From my perspective it's... JaeReed was going through some stuff IRL that affected my read on them which I didn't take into account, and I pushed on them. So they thought that I was scum taking advantage of their weakness. When they said so later I was really hurt that they could think that I would do that and at that point they were a super strong scumread for me so I thought they were being manipulative because of that and that made it worse. So I poured out my emotions to them in the spoiler. Later JaeReed opened up emotionally as well in a spoiler and basically from that I realized what had happened and we both apologized and resolved it. Bringing RL into games is bad and messy and we should have set up boundaries before the game but I didn't expect anything like that to happen so I didn't think it was necessary. Sorry for that everyone.

Feel free to clarify in any other ways that you feel you need to JaeReed, that is a fairly basic overview. Hopefully we don't have to keep bringing this up over and over again.

Specifically the thing that I don't think nancy would have done as scum knowing I'm town is tell me she thought I was lying about feeling hurt/betrayed. Because as scum she'd know it was true.

Like you can believe what you want there ofc especially since the read is tied to my own alignment I just don't think she'd do that to me as scum.

So that's why I think plantsy is town anyway.
As for their reads, I can see the mastina scum read and leonshade scumread because of WWF which was partially what I was comparing to as well. I thought mastina was an SK in that originally instead of paired scum though so :c broke my heart again.
Steven Quartz is also a town read of mine so I can see that as well because of the initial push on mastina + chat with Titus about stuff + protective talk with plantsy/boon. It all felt super super genuine.

I should be asleep too but it's too hot

[plantsy]

He seems to be doing better but I'm scared to jinx it by declaring him cured but he hasn't had uti symptoms for a few days now and he's doing OK on the

expensive

special bladder stone dissolving food. And I got some probiotics for myself and I can't think of a non tmi way to end this sentence but I think I'm getting better too.

[plantsy]

I thought it was food poisoning because it started after I went to the free concert in the neighbouring village but that was two weeks ago so probably just a coincidence but today and yesterday has been better on that front at least.

I really liked that Jae post too about you guys.

mine

[plantsy]

When I, Plotinus, said "don't do that" it was @rc who was upset that nancy and jae were starting to town read each other and said that whatever nancy had written in the spoiler was no reason to town read her. So I said don't do that because he was trying to bring back the toxicity. It's one thing to scumread someone and another to fan the flames when people are hurt for real.

But he was probably town after all.

Pedit: oh,

that

"don't do that". That was nancy, Jae.

[plantsy]

Radiant cowbells, who we were scumreading even before that bit, I think he was town in spite of being being a jerk there.

[plantsy]

Sorry for being unclear.

Would you mind talking about why you think Titus could be town? I thought RC's push on FA sucked (it was a good case that didn't actually follow what happened in thread which is good scum play 101 + terrible town play 101) and I thought he could very possibly be scum from it.

...and I know you felt similarly so I feel like hearing why you changed your mind on the read could help me too.

I want to reply to this properly when I'm awake but I'll try to do the almost 2am typing on my phone version now and but it's hard because a lot of it is gut but:

His push on fa was terrible and fa's response was also a little off like we were reaching out to her and she ignored it and that worried us a little at the time and more later but still we didn't think rc really believed that push... But I've seen him fake reads as town to see how scum will react or whatever. In That Awful Blitz^TM he tunnelled the shit out of me for forty pages before admitting he'd never scumread me at all.

nancy did a reset on Titus at one point but for a while I felt like she was trying to make friends but

thinking back on rc's replace out it felt like he was angry that nancy misread him.

It's not a read I'm very confident of which is probably why this all sounds like more of a scum case than a town one.

I liked Titus' interactions with Steven Quartz. I am sorry this isn't very coherent. I'll try again tomorrow.

[plantsy]

Like no OK, when half the game has been circling about and half the game being none existent(max,over,not mafia, imperium, yume(though from.the little she has I do think she is town),creature and to some extend mastina and mhsmith )you don't come to me and tell me I am doing fucking nothing >.>

I am sorry if you feel it was unfair, but I called you out because you complained in a way that I felt was trying to put blame somewhere else. Those others have not complained, I do not think, although I have already called out Creature and Maxwell, before you, so I don't know why you say that. You have posts, yes, but I don't feel that you have done anything really substantial. Your push on Maxwell... Max is below null for me, yes, but your jump on that wagon felt scummy to me, and it came after everyone else. So I am at a loss as to what you have done with your own initiative that is pushing this game anywhere. If you are sorting players passively and following the game, that's great. But I don't understand the purpose of trying to blame Imperium for inactivity. You can do things without Imperium. I understand that because I am scumreading your slot I am more likely to think that your motives are not good. So I am sorry if I am misreading your intentions. If it's just your frustration? Okay, I get it. I've been there. If that's the case, feel free to come talk to me if you like, maybe I can help you feel better and more involved.

[plantsy]

I am still going to finish the second half of your ISO after I finish catching up but I want to comment on this now.

Meanwhile, after plantsy & Jae's explanation of their argument, I'm willing to tentatively call plantsy town over it.

{KeySkiies, JaeReed}
{Imperium, itlepip, Ramcius, Steven Quartz, Maxwell, plantsy}
{Not_Mafia, Titus, mastina, Shiro, SlySly}
{Creature}
{Oversoul, mhsmith}

Why are you willing to tentatively call me town over that? I don't know, it feels like a soft way to back off a scumread and an easy way to ignore the rest of my content? Also, your reads feel very strange to me. Why are you townreading Maxwell, Ramcius and itlepip? What makes Titus null? I am really uncomfortable how you have Shiro and mastina in null because you say you don't think you can parse FA emotion and you were pocketed by mastina before. I mean, I understand the feeling when you are basing your read on someone because of false meta from an ongoing game where you had the wrong read but I feel like putting mastina just null from it without trying to go any further is just really easy and I wish you did not feel so blasé about your reads.

[plantsy]

I'll also reply to this now...

@plantsy:

I've read your ISO of me, seeing your detailed thoughts has made me more convinced that there's actual substance behind your reads, it's another reason why I've started townreading you. I'm not sure whether you meant your questions as rhetorical or for me to answer, let me know what you want answered.

Okay... but that's all you have to say? They were mostly rhetorical, but I was also interested to see whether you engaged with them and to what extent. I am sorry but I am so underwhelmed by this response from you...

[plantsy]

me: nancy knows I've been dissociating irl and pushed on that therefore she's scum
Plot?: Don't do that

That was me, not Plotinus.

I wish you could read me...

[plantsy]

but I'm scared to jinx it

Ffs

[plantsy]

Also, I just realized the reason why I'm not as confident on Plantsy as I'd like to be is because I don't have a strong scum read I'm feeling great about. Thanks to Nacho for trying to get me to figure out where my hesitation is. Lacking a strong scumread always makes it more difficult for me to believe in my town reads.

I don't know about Plotinus for sure but I feel the same way. I have scumreads but none of them are reads I really believe in yet. That's unusual for me (you've seen me deathtunnel scum on day 1 and have 4 correct hard scumreads within 48 hours) and it's making me uncomfortable but I'm hoping that something clicks at some point and the game starts to make more sense for me. Right now I do have 3 townreads that I really believe in and I guess for the time being the best option I have is to talk with those slots to try to get somewhere together. (You being caught up and Nacho coming back will really really help I hope.)

[plantsy]

but it's not really necessary; there's a huge town body of work to supplement this i just think that this sequence actually never ever comes from scum

Nacho are you here? Come talk?

[plantsy]

Sleep well Tammy; I hope your headache gets better.

[plantsy]

Sorry for being unclear.

Would you mind talking about why you think Titus could be town? I thought RC's push on FA sucked (it was a good case that didn't actually follow what happened in thread which is good scum play 101 + terrible town play 101) and I thought he could very possibly be scum from it.

I felt the same. In fact there was very little to townread from RC at all, his refusal to talk to me was what bothered me the most, and if he wasn't RC I think he would have been widely scumread for his play. RC unfortunately does do these terrible plays as town. But I reset the read when RC replaced out. I don't want to go back and read the slot. I don't want to read any more RC posts ever if I can avoid it. My townread of Titus is due to her head. It's my weakest townread and one that I haven't done a lot of work on yet, but it's nonetheless above null. I don't think I scumread anything from her head even while I was scumreading RC, I like her real-time interactions, and she has softed some sort of role that I struggle to see as being from scum. I can talk about this more later (I'm very time poor right now) but that's the most basic overview.

[plantsy]

thinking back on rc's replace out it felt like he was angry that nancy misread him.

I don't really agree with this. He knew that I hadn't locked his alignment. I think he knew why I was scumreading him, too. He was just being obstinate.

[plantsy]

thinking back on rc's replace out it felt like he was angry that nancy misread him.

I don't really agree with this. He knew that I hadn't locked his alignment. I think he knew why I was scumreading him, too. He was just being obstinate.

I've talked about this with nancy this morning and I'm going to trust her on this one because she knows him better than I do; the replace out was null. I do want to reread Titus later but not right now.

The cat is worse today and I'm feeling worse too and I need to disengage for a bit (who knows whether I actually will disengage but I need to.)

[plantsy]

Sorry Leonshade I flat out have no time today, I thought I would but between four girlfriends and everything else things have just piled up so the second half is going to have to wait unless I somehow magically find time in like ~3 hours before bed and delay going to sleep. Know that I haven't forgotten you, though.

[plantsy]

Also mastina's catchup bled town to the extent that I excitedly spammed "mastina is town" like 30 times in the hydra PT but there *were* a few subtle issues with it that I need pick apart when I have more time on my hands.

[plantsy]

It's okay to be paranoid. It won't ruin the masonry. I think you'll be confident in your read on us within the next week, once you get your footing and let things percolate, but take as much time as you need.

[plantsy]

Thanks, Tammy. I hope so too.

Also thanks for the hug earlier, Jae.

[plantsy]

I'm glad to see you caught up Tammy. (Well, mostly caught up.) I'm not sure where my read of Leonshade is right now (this is nancy) but it's somewhere below null and somewhere above the bottom, I think. I wanted to finish his ISO today but I didn't manage to find the time so it will have to wait. There was a little burst of activity from him that Plotinus and I both liked because it finally felt like he had some energy and life to him, but I need to go over those posts more carefully because now he seems to just be back to the flat Leonshade that I saw before. I haven't talked with Plotinus about that just yet, so that will also be helpful when I can do that. But it's not the hard scumread that it was before for me.

[plantsy]

but I'm scared to jinx it

Ffs

The first person I am going to ISO is MaxwellPuckett based on the 6 person wagon on him that apparently fell apart; Tammy wants me to read through Leonshade so I'll do that too but I probably won't start actually reading through the game until tomorrow (stayed late at work & going in early tomorrow and so my window of time to work with is small). If you're around and want to interact in the meantime I'm more than happy to multitask but otherwise I'll be grinding away on ISOs.

I went to bed almost two hours ago but sleep isn't happening. I can't stay up too late because I have to go to the vet in the morning but I'm here and it's good to see you, friend.

I think Max is a good place to start. I think there were some posts of theirs that we liked tonally but there was a lot of emptiness too.

Do iso maps help you on day 1, or do they help you more later on? We don't have a Max one yet but we have a few for some others.

[plantsy]

I have a Mastina one, an itlepip one, a leonshade one and part of a ramcius one. If you want one of those now I could post it. If you want me to prioritise someone before the end of the day phase I can do that too.

[plantsy]

Leonshade 1701

Creature

-551

-749

-+750

-+1103

=1135 =1347 +1691 ==-1696

Imperium

+726

+742 ++749 +1343 +1628 =1689 ++==1696

itlepip

+543

+551 =726 ++==749 =755 =1338 =1340 =1345 +1690 =+1694 ++==1696

JaeReed

+545

-548 =726 ++==749 =755 =1338 =1340 =1345 +1690 =+1694 ++==1696

KeySkiies

=175 +208 =1344 ++1696

mastina

=168 +196 -541 =542

+545

=548 -?705 +720 +742

==749

=755 =1343 =+1569 +1577 ==1696

MaxwellPuckett

-1340

-+1347 -1570

=1573 +1577 =1580 -1690 =1691 +-1692 =1695 ==+1696

mhsmith0

=175 -1343 -1344 -1569 -1571 -1577 -1689 v--==1696

Not_Mafia/S&W

v40 +-+=168 =552 +610 =611 -726

-749 +755

=1343 R =1571 -1691 ==1696

Oversoul

v755 -1104 -1135 -1338

-1347

-1577 -+-1689 +1690 --==1696

plantsy

=196 =208 +547 +554 +702 -1570 -1577 -1618 -1621 -1628 -1690 =1691 -+1692 +1694 =1695 --==1696

Ramcius

+196 -547 -1691 =1695 ++==1696

Shiro/R&L

-168 +175

=+196 +208

R -544 =705

=720

-1340

-1570

=1619 -1691 ==1696

SlySly

-?175 +-=1104 +1340 =1343 -1344 +1345 ==1696

Steven Quartz

=208 =1343 +1689 -1691 ++==1696

Titus/RM

-240 +=544 =547 =607 =610 R =742 =1338 -1569 =1570 =1571 =1573 ==1696

Bolded are posts that I cared more about when we were scumreading him but anyway. I've really liked his posts on Friday.

[plantsy]

Nacho as you can probably tell the latest team I had for Leon was with shiro, creature with a few other possibilities (that's not the only thing bold means but it sometimes is.) but we at one point had him as scum with jae or with Titus and some others at various points and at some point we said wait maybe all these associatives with people we no longer think are scum is not so damning.

Pedit: Titus, mhsmith, ramcius, creature. I think. Those are people we've had some trouble with or scumread but changed our minds and then sometimes changed them back again.

[plantsy]

Is there anything I should be looking out for when reading through Leonshade?

The bolded posts were interesting and noteworthy for various reasons.

Then on Friday he had some nice paranoia towards us and talking about the gladiate and nancy is underwhelmed by his latest stuff but my impressions have a longer half life than that.

[plantsy]

Titus, you weren't posting much in radiant moonlight. Some, yes, but you were taking a back seat. Was this a planned strategy with rc that he'd take point on day one?

[plantsy]

I think that looks very town.

thanks. I was having trouble getting past being upset that two town players were town reading each other.

[plantsy]

Titus, you feel like a caricature of yourself.

[plantsy]

I think that looks very town.

thanks. I was having trouble getting past being upset that two town players were town reading each other.

People get frustrated at things they find as cheap or poorly balanced regardless of whether it benefits them or not; I wouldn't be particularly happy if the scumteam quoted their role PMs and got themselves modkilled, and that'd be a frustration regardless of alignment.

Oh. Like in gossip girl when we were all wrong about what happened.

That makes sense.

[plantsy]

Can you talk some about the strategy and the reasons behind it? Aside from the real life stuff, I mean.

[plantsy]

[quote="In

Titus, you feel like a caricature of yourself.

Ok, I don't really care plantsy.

Well, I do. You feel like you sat down and said "ok what would townTitus care about? Votes! Town Titus would care about votes. I don't know anything else about what town Titus would think about this game but definitely the votes thing."

You're better than this.

[plantsy]

All this has been Plotinus and I'm sorry for not reaching out to you more. I'm a bit lost in my own stuff at the moment but I'll try, Jae. Probably falling asleep soon though.

[plantsy]

Can you talk some about the strategy and the reasons behind it? Aside from the real life stuff, I mean.

Titus, I care about this question more than I care about whatever it is we're circling the drain about.

[plantsy]

Can you talk some about the strategy and the reasons behind it? Aside from the real life stuff, I mean.

I like hard data scum cannot run from. There is none on d1. Too much grandstanding and kissing ass and drama that eventually turns into luck.

Thank you, Titus. I think I originally misglossed this as a reply to our caricature conversation.

[plantsy]

@Jae:

[plantsy]

This would be NAI even if it were because I've known Titus to tell her hydra partners she doesn't want to participate much if at all on D1 before they had role PMs.

Titus said in signups that RC would not be posting much at all.

[plantsy]

I rarely ever agree with nancy in games, we don't have natural synergy ever.

We synced up in Democracy.

[plantsy]

Jae are you around?

I have a headache and feel braindead on top of that but I feel like talking.

[plantsy]

Want to talk about reads?

I feel like we've been really quietly in sync this game.

[plantsy]

I think you might be surprised? How long will cooking dinner take? I need to shower at some point.

[plantsy]

I mean, I want to talk about all of the reads. Like, we've had the thread to ourselves for a while. But that was a few hours ago and I'm feeling tired now on top of the headache and stuff so.

Anyway what are your current reads?

[plantsy]

You said you were feeling paranoid about Imperium earlier and I've been feeling paranoid about them too and Plotinus tells me not to worry but I can't help it.

[plantsy]

There's also the read on me and I can't really explain it but it was the emotional reading post about me that felt off.

What do you mean by that?