I asked nexus about this several weeks ago and said it seemed right (what mastina's saying)In post 9, RadiantCowbells wrote:If you bring it to Nexus and he okays it I'll go with it but I really, really, really don't think this belongs in the normal queue.
Fro99er/Alisae's Large Normal
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"I officially announce Fro99er the king of guilties because this is the second time he has guiltied a slot I was really unsure about.
Heil King Froggo.
Ribbit ribbit." -Transcend-
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that's not a recruitment thoughIn post 10, RadiantCowbells wrote:In fact it's not technically normal.
This should take precedence. Most players' idea of what normal is would have this take precedence.cannot be recruited to join the rest of the Mafia team
when the traitor-enabler dies, the traitors are then goons, so it's not a recruitment of a traitor, but the traitor losing it's abilities"I officially announce Fro99er the king of guilties because this is the second time he has guiltied a slot I was really unsure about.
Heil King Froggo.
Ribbit ribbit." -Transcend-
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Anyway, here's also what mastina said when I asked about this a month or so ago
mastina wrote: However, if the Mafia Traitor is just a Mafia Traitor, and your intention is in fact that upon the death of the traitor enabler for the traitor to stop being a traitor, then I believe the traitor would join the mafia team and become a goon. I mean. Alignment changes aren't allowed in Normals, so it's not like the traitor can become a vanilla townie upon the death of the traitor-enabler. Yet the traitor's abilities are:
-Not being able to kill (natural immunity to gunsmith)
-Not being able to communicate
-Being endgamed if the last scum alive thanks to not being able to kill
-Knowing who the scumteam are.
These are the things which I think of as being enabled by a traitor-enabler.
So upon the death of the traitor-enabler, all but the last would go away I'd think...leaving a traitor who is, in fact, now a Vanilla Mafiate...aka, a Goon.
tl;dr: Ambiguous, but if it's what the mod wants, the answershouldbe yes."I officially announce Fro99er the king of guilties because this is the second time he has guiltied a slot I was really unsure about.
Heil King Froggo.
Ribbit ribbit." -Transcend-
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Fro99er wrote:Hi Nexus!
Apologies if I should be asking someone else this. I'm thinking of running another large normal after the current one I'm running finishes, but before we ever put it in review, I don't want to do that if the way this works isn't what I'm thinking of.
Let's say we have:
Mafia Goon
Mafia Traitor-Enabler
(these two in the Mafia factional PT)
and also awho -- as normal rules dictate -- knows who the other two mafia are, but the mafia doesn't know who he/she is.Mafia Traitor
All three of these are perfectly normal roles. But my question is this:
If the Mafia Traitor-Enabler dies, then the Traitor no longer has traitor abilities, which means he's then known to the goon and joins the main Mafia PT?
Is that correct?Nexus wrote:Er. I think so?"I officially announce Fro99er the king of guilties because this is the second time he has guiltied a slot I was really unsure about.
Heil King Froggo.
Ribbit ribbit." -Transcend-
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not at all what I saidIn post 24, Nexus wrote:wait so what is the problem
you want a traitor enabler which would make a traitor a 'mafia x' if it dies?
no.
a doctor-enabler when he dies, the doctors no longer have doctor abilities
why wouldn't a traitor-enabler when he dies, mean the traitor no longer has traitor abilities?"I officially announce Fro99er the king of guilties because this is the second time he has guiltied a slot I was really unsure about.
Heil King Froggo.
Ribbit ribbit." -Transcend-
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Again, mastina's interpretation, with abilities bolded.
[/quote]mastina wrote: However, if the Mafia Traitor is just a Mafia Traitor, and your intention is in fact that upon the death of the traitor enabler for the traitor to stop being a traitor, then I believe the traitor would join the mafia team and become a goon. I mean. Alignment changes aren't allowed in Normals, so it's not like the traitor can become a vanilla townie upon the death of the traitor-enabler.Yet the traitor's abilities are:
-Not being able to kill (natural immunity to gunsmith)
-Not being able to communicate
-Being endgamed if the last scum alive thanks to not being able to kill
-Knowing who the scumteam are.
These are the things which I think of as being enabled by a traitor-enabler.
So upon the death of the traitor-enabler, all but the last would go away I'd think...leaving a traitor who is, in fact, now a Vanilla Mafiate...aka, a Goon."I officially announce Fro99er the king of guilties because this is the second time he has guiltied a slot I was really unsure about.
Heil King Froggo.
Ribbit ribbit." -Transcend-
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we'll scrap the game but I expect this to be addressed by normal guidelines in the near future, because it's explicity normal yet people are arguing it's not."I officially announce Fro99er the king of guilties because this is the second time he has guiltied a slot I was really unsure about.
Heil King Froggo.
Ribbit ribbit." -Transcend-
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I'm not trying to "push the boundaries"
I'm trying to create a setup that's within the guidelines. I didn't set out to think "this will push boundaries". I set out to create what I thought was a cool setup that needed some help with balance."I officially announce Fro99er the king of guilties because this is the second time he has guiltied a slot I was really unsure about.
Heil King Froggo.
Ribbit ribbit." -Transcend-
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I'd be happy to join the NRG, because I basically live in the normal forum.In post 39, Nexus wrote:I don't know what to suggest. I can only apologise for misleading you with my response - I responded via my phone and obviously didn't think i through.
I was going to invite you to the NRG anyway, so if you want to join, you can join and bring this into it as your first order of business."I officially announce Fro99er the king of guilties because this is the second time he has guiltied a slot I was really unsure about.
Heil King Froggo.
Ribbit ribbit." -Transcend-
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I'll think of a new setup since this mechanic seems to be a no-go for now. Give me a day or two (Alisae's on vacation, and I did most of this setup anyway, so I'm sure Ali won't mind)"I officially announce Fro99er the king of guilties because this is the second time he has guiltied a slot I was really unsure about.
Heil King Froggo.
Ribbit ribbit." -Transcend-
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NEW PROPOSED SETUP
Mafia Bulletproof Traitor
Mafia Cop
Mafia Goon
Mafia Goon
Bulletproof Ninja (SK)
Town Bulletproof-Enabler
Bulletproof Townie
Town Tracker
Town Neapolitan
Town Roleblocker
Town Doctor
6 VTs
Let's use this as a starting point. Thoughts: Mafia cop gets a NOT town on the Traitor and the SK. Could change the Neapolitan to Vanilla cop if town is too OP (but I think not)"I officially announce Fro99er the king of guilties because this is the second time he has guiltied a slot I was really unsure about.
Heil King Froggo.
Ribbit ribbit." -Transcend-
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I rushed to put that together, but some things to think about
Endgame rules (esp involving traitor)
Scum kill and use ability (I say no, if it comes down to just scum cop we're pretty far in the game anyway)
Should I nerf the scum cop to X-shot?
Should I nerf the tracker to X-shot?
Should I give mafia day talk to discuss the traitor role?
Anyway, that's what I get for rushing this setup through, but I didn't want to leave this stale for a while"I officially announce Fro99er the king of guilties because this is the second time he has guiltied a slot I was really unsure about.
Heil King Froggo.
Ribbit ribbit." -Transcend-
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Yeah I think gating the cop to like 2-shot makes sense on the scum side, and maybe either the tracker or Neapolitan on the town side if necessary.
Pedit: why is the BP ninja silly? I've used it before in a normal."I officially announce Fro99er the king of guilties because this is the second time he has guiltied a slot I was really unsure about.
Heil King Froggo.
Ribbit ribbit." -Transcend-
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it's pretty strong, but there's a bulletproof enabler so when that dies the SK is no longer bulletproof, plus scum can kinda guilty the SK"I officially announce Fro99er the king of guilties because this is the second time he has guiltied a slot I was really unsure about.
Heil King Froggo.
Ribbit ribbit." -Transcend-
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Holy shit I just realized I have 6 VTs and I meant to have 7 -- town only adds up to 12 players, not 13 (I can even see an argument for 14 in this setup)"I officially announce Fro99er the king of guilties because this is the second time he has guiltied a slot I was really unsure about.
Heil King Froggo.
Ribbit ribbit." -Transcend-
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NEW PROPOSED SETUP
Mafia Bulletproof Traitor
Mafia 2-shot Cop
Mafia Goon
Mafia Goon
Bulletproof SK
Town Bulletproof-Enabler
Bulletproof Townie
Town Rolecop
Town Gunsmith
Town Roleblocker
Town Doctor
7 VTs
Let's do this instead...I like this better...removes the ninja from the SK, and the rolecop doesn't actually guilty anyone except the traitor (SK and the Bulleptroof townie would both just show up as "Bulletproof" so a rolecop is not a direct guilty on SK). Also, the gunsmith gets a false guilty on the rolecop and a false inno on the traitor."I officially announce Fro99er the king of guilties because this is the second time he has guiltied a slot I was really unsure about.
Heil King Froggo.
Ribbit ribbit." -Transcend-
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(If we need to add 1 more town player for balance for 14:4:1 instead of 13:4:1, I have some ideas on that too. An Innocent Child that reveals when it wants would be interesting, and would give a clear to the rolecop in contrast to a scum guilty with the traitor)."I officially announce Fro99er the king of guilties because this is the second time he has guiltied a slot I was really unsure about.
Heil King Froggo.
Ribbit ribbit." -Transcend-
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fuck it...just remove the SK and this works at 13:4
I might have to nerf the rolecop or gunsmith in that case, but let's just roll with that (sorry, this is me working through a setup on the fly).
FINAL PROPOSED SETUP
Mafia Bulletproof Traitor
Mafia 2-shot Cop
Mafia Goon
Mafia Goon
Town Bulletproof-Enabler
Bulletproof Townie
Town Rolecop
Town Gunsmith
Town Roleblocker
Town Doctor
7 VTs"I officially announce Fro99er the king of guilties because this is the second time he has guiltied a slot I was really unsure about.
Heil King Froggo.
Ribbit ribbit." -Transcend-
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OK I can kinda see why...In post 69, Alisae wrote:Personally I want to get rid of the doctor
what if we changed it to a bodyguard? then we don't need to make the gunsmith macho"I officially announce Fro99er the king of guilties because this is the second time he has guiltied a slot I was really unsure about.
Heil King Froggo.
Ribbit ribbit." -Transcend-
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Yeah I think I'd like to avoid going the strongman route since I want to stick with the traitor route, which has vulnerability to the rolecop already.
The bodyguard route works, or the macho...either way. If Alisae prefers not having a doctor I don't mind going the bodyguard route."I officially announce Fro99er the king of guilties because this is the second time he has guiltied a slot I was really unsure about.
Heil King Froggo.
Ribbit ribbit." -Transcend-
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so scum don't accidentally kill the traitor off the start. it works with the bulletproof enabler tooIn post 83, Alisae wrote:Why is the traitor bulletproof if there is not SK?"I officially announce Fro99er the king of guilties because this is the second time he has guiltied a slot I was really unsure about.
Heil King Froggo.
Ribbit ribbit." -Transcend-
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you know I despite JOATsIn post 84, Alisae wrote:Also if you want to keep the traitor bulletproof give town a vigi?
Like, if you want to do that, you could make it in the form of a JOAT if you wanted to change things up a bit.
1-shot daykill
1-shot desperado
1-shot night vigi
The JOAT would be able to use only one of it's abilities every day/night cycle.
But I don't think that's normal?"I officially announce Fro99er the king of guilties because this is the second time he has guiltied a slot I was really unsure about.
Heil King Froggo.
Ribbit ribbit." -Transcend-
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it does but I don't really want to make it as swingy with a vig.
I can get behind the BP-bodyguard. We'd have to change the town bulletproof to something else."I officially announce Fro99er the king of guilties because this is the second time he has guiltied a slot I was really unsure about.
Heil King Froggo.
Ribbit ribbit." -Transcend-
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also that doesn't solve the follow the gunsmith issue if we go with a bp-bodyguard. Then scum need ot take out the bp-enabler before taking out the Bodyguard.
so we'd still have to make the gunsmith macho"I officially announce Fro99er the king of guilties because this is the second time he has guiltied a slot I was really unsure about.
Heil King Froggo.
Ribbit ribbit." -Transcend-
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conditional asceitc is pretty far outside normal rulesIn post 90, Alisae wrote:but swing is exciting! Just think of railgun
Bad joke is bad
Turn the BP townie into an Ascetic enabler?
You can make one of the goons a conditional ascetic (ascetic deactivates upon preforming the kill) and make one of the investigatives ascetic.
Don't think two enablers is needed as well
I think
Mafia BP Traitor
Mafia 2-shot Cop
Mafia Goon
Mafia Goon
Town Macho Gunsmith
Town BP-Bodyguard
Town BP Enabler
Town Roleblocker
Town Rolecop
Town something
7 VTs
is probably pretty balanced...just need to figure out the something"I officially announce Fro99er the king of guilties because this is the second time he has guiltied a slot I was really unsure about.
Heil King Froggo.
Ribbit ribbit." -Transcend-
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Sure but it's pretty contrived and has two different enablers and a non-normal role (conditional is not normal). I'm just not a fan.In post 93, Alisae wrote:Pedit: BUT FROG!
It works well with the setup and solves the follow the gunsmith problem
Let me check the conditional thing real quick tho actually."I officially announce Fro99er the king of guilties because this is the second time he has guiltied a slot I was really unsure about.
Heil King Froggo.
Ribbit ribbit." -Transcend-
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Scum don't need a ton of power, they are the informed minority.In post 95, Alisae wrote:Give scum a jailkeeper?
The 2-shot cop tbh isn't really much power for scum.
13:4 is a bit scumsided normally, but making one of them a traitor (albeit that can't be killed early on) and giving them only a 2-shot cop helps limit making it too scumsided.
We don't have to power town up with a shit ton of PRs either if we can limit scum's power"I officially announce Fro99er the king of guilties because this is the second time he has guiltied a slot I was really unsure about.
Heil King Froggo.
Ribbit ribbit." -Transcend-
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I have an idea
Mafia BP Traitor
Mafia 2-shot Cop
Mafia Goon
Mafia Goon
Town Gunsmith
Town Jailkeeper
Town BP Enabler
Bulletproof townie
Town Rolecop
Town something
7 VTs
jailkeeper combines the doc/roleblock, but also prevents follow the gunsmith (because gunsmith wont use ability if jailed)."I officially announce Fro99er the king of guilties because this is the second time he has guiltied a slot I was really unsure about.
Heil King Froggo.
Ribbit ribbit." -Transcend-
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The rolecop being a full rolecop worries me a tiny bit if they hit the traitor then the cop. that would be like 2 guilties, plus the gunsmith can get a guilty or two. Could might nerf one of them and then adda mediocre town power to the "town something""I officially announce Fro99er the king of guilties because this is the second time he has guiltied a slot I was really unsure about.
Heil King Froggo.
Ribbit ribbit." -Transcend-
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Mafia BP Traitor
Mafia 2-shot Cop
Mafia Goon
Mafia Goon
Town Gunsmith
Town Jailkeeper
Town BP Enabler
Bulletproof townie
Town Rolecop
Town Macho IC
7 VT
then we just need to decide if we need to tone down rolecop/gunsmith and I think we're in good shape
pedit: god damn I wish I heart gladiators"I officially announce Fro99er the king of guilties because this is the second time he has guiltied a slot I was really unsure about.
Heil King Froggo.
Ribbit ribbit." -Transcend-
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Actually before we finish the role PMs I have a question
The jailkepeer can still jail the Macho IC, right? From what it looks like, Macho only doesn't allow protection from doctors and bodyguards: https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Macho
if that's the case, maybe we change bulletproof townie to bulletproof bodyguard so that it can't protect the Macho IC, and Jailkeeper to roleblocker (and limit the roleblocker shots if necessary)"I officially announce Fro99er the king of guilties because this is the second time he has guiltied a slot I was really unsure about.
Heil King Froggo.
Ribbit ribbit." -Transcend-
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ok cool...wasn't sure what normal rules stipulated there w.r.t. macho and jailkeeper since it wasn't explicitly laid out. We'll keep it and get to work on the PMs
Does the ruleset look ok?"I officially announce Fro99er the king of guilties because this is the second time he has guiltied a slot I was really unsure about.
Heil King Froggo.
Ribbit ribbit." -Transcend-
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PMs:
You are a Citizen
You aren't special. You only have your voice and your vote.You win when all threats to town have been eliminated| Gamethread | Please send your Role Name as confirmation! And lastly, have fun!
You are a Jailkeeper
During the night, you may target one other person that is not yourself. If successful, they will be protected from all kills, but will also be roleblocked.You win when all threats to town have been eliminated| Gamethread | Please send your Role Name as confirmation! And lastly, have fun!
You are a Bulletproof-Enabler
You enable bulletproof roles to exist in this game. If you die, all bulletproof roles (if any exist) lose their bulletproof vest.You win when all threats to town have been eliminated| Gamethread | Please send your Role Name as confirmation! And lastly, have fun!
You are a Gunsmith
During the night, you may target one person. If successful, you will learn if they have a gun.You win when all threats to town have been eliminated| Gamethread | Please send your Role Name as confirmation! And lastly, have fun!
You are a Rolecop
During the night, you may target one person. You will learn their role. This may only be used twice per game.You win when all threats to town have been eliminated| Gamethread | Please send your Role Name as confirmation! And lastly, have fun!
You are a Bulletproof Citizen
You have a bulletproof vest that will protect you from kills.You win when all threats to town have been eliminated| Gamethread | Please send your Role Name as confirmation! And lastly, have fun!
You are a Macho Innocent Child
You cannot be protected. However, at any point during the game (day or night), you may PM the moderator to have your role revealed. When the moderator receives your PM requesting your role reveal, your whole role and role PM will immediately be revealed in the game thread.You win when all threats to town have been eliminated| Gamethread | Please send your Role Name as confirmation! And lastly, have fun!
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You are a Bulletproof Traitor
You knowX, Y, Zto be mafia aligned, but your mafia identity is unknown toX, Y, Z. You also have a bulletproof vest that will protect you from kills.
As a traitor:- If you are the last surviving member of your team, you will be automatically endgamed.
- You may not submit any factional kills.
- You return "Not Town" to Cops, "No gun" to Gunsmiths, and "Traitor" to Rolecops.
- You do not have access to the main Mafia PT.
You win when your faction controls 50% of the votes.| Gamethread | Please send your Role Name as confirmation! And lastly, have fun!
You are a 2-shot Cop
You are aligned withX, Ywho areRole X, Role Y.
You may talk in your factional PT here at night.
During the night, you may target one person. You will learn whether they are town aligned or not. This may only be used twice per game.
You also know there is one Traitor in the game who you are aligned with.You win when your faction controls 50% of the votes.| Gamethread | Please send your Role Name as confirmation! And lastly, have fun!
[/quote][/quote]You are a Goon
You are aligned withX, Ywho areRole X, Role Y
You may talk in your factional PT here at night.
You also know there is one Traitor in the game who you are aligned with.You win when your faction controls 50% of the votes.| Gamethread | Please send your Role Name as confirmation! And lastly, have fun!"I officially announce Fro99er the king of guilties because this is the second time he has guiltied a slot I was really unsure about.
Heil King Froggo.
Ribbit ribbit." -Transcend-
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Just realized daytalk is in the rules, but we didn't specify daytalk in this new setup. I tihnk we should still give the scumteam daytalk given there's a traitor"I officially announce Fro99er the king of guilties because this is the second time he has guiltied a slot I was really unsure about.
Heil King Froggo.
Ribbit ribbit." -Transcend-
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Fro99er Survivor
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Fro99er Survivor
- Survivor
- Survivor
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Fro99er Survivor
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 16952
- Joined: April 2, 2015
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