Micro 728: Perfect Blue Mafia (GAME OVER)

[Prism]

Hey everyone.

I'm a miller. Hip hip, hooray!

VOTE: Aristophanes

If you're town make it obvious and let's dance

[Prism]

Good thing we've got more than a few more days to think about it then!

[Prism]

So Aristophanes, now that Nacho isn't here for me to use as a crutch-how the fuck should I read you?

[Prism]

Like, what are some things I should be looking for in a town Aristophanes?

[Prism]

Nope-I said it near the end of Buttersnap!

Activity is the big one I've seen but you actually managed to get halfway there last time. It appeared previously that Nacho and Shadoweh were able to parse scum/not scum posts out of you rather than sheer activity.

I like you so far though and think you're right.

VOTE: Dunnstral Too cheeky, doesn't feel like a legitimate town entrance.

[Prism]

I get the feeling Dunnstral's going to be a hard read this time around. Last time he basically gave it to me on a platter by mistake and I feel like I can't expect that to happen again.

I generally think hiding reads is silly but earlygame, near RVS I can see the intent.

[Prism]

I'm good with this.

VOTE: Schadd

I liked Tarkus's answer about Creature.

[Prism]

That DarkHorse/massive interaction was just dumb. Dark Horse was in the right here as far as I could tell, and his vote on massive was fine.

I take it you'd rather target one of the LESS active people in this game for an early wagon?
VOTE: Dark Horse

Like, massive said this like it was a bad thing. Spurring activity is powerful is typically the intent behind town naked votes (And is the reason I joined the schadd wagon) This is some grade-A bad posting despite me not finding it scummy, just annoying. Dark Hose's #80 is overly forceful for my taste and doesn't read great, rest of it is just him correctly calling out massive for ego/overreaction.

Schadd's reaction isn't great in my opinion so I'll keep my vote for now. I guess nothing he's said has really been wrong (Maybe considering my playstyle is town?) but not really sure where else I'd throw my vote right now.

I get why people say there's an obvious difference between Aristotown and scum now. This is already so much better than what I've seen of his scumgames.

[Prism]

Actually I will vote Dark Horse here after all.

VOTE: Dark Horse

I really didn't want to at first because I didn't want to validate any of what I think are poor posts from massive but that's really dumb.

[Prism]

aristo

boy

tonereads are one thing but what on earth is that

[Prism]

VOTE: prism you sound extremely manipulative

Feel free to quote something you think is underhanded or manipulative.

Possible pocketing of Aristo is a good candidate that I won't knock you for using, though I think that's a lot more straightforward than what you're suggesting here.

[Prism]

Saying that could be an interpretation of our interactions, I'll have more to comment after he answers. I probably shouldn't have given him a freebie and seen what he came up with himself but that's okay.

[Prism]

I was just about to ask again for something specific.

That was a really good post. I'll answer it.

[Prism]

So Aristophanes, now that Nacho isn't here for me to use as a crutch-how the fuck should I read you?

Tone is off af on this one, pings my tone radar, also its kinda similar to your next post i dont like which is

I'm experimenting starting by simply asking players what I should be looking for in their alignments. Here, I picked Aristophanes as I've been in a few games with him but haven't really ever interacted with him. Specifically, I have used Nacho as a proxy to read him every game.

I get the feeling Dunnstral's going to be a hard read this time around. Last time he basically gave it to me on a platter by mistake and I feel like I can't expect that to happen again.

I generally think hiding reads is silly but earlygame, near RVS I can see the intent.

This post sounds like the stuff i say when im scum and trying to set the tone of the game when im playing with someone i played earlier or recently, i talk about the last game and how my reads should be different because my alignement is different and what not.This is how i feel when i read the post, scum also tends to say half-truth or half-statement because its easier to not contradict yourself. Thats why it kinda sound manipulative.

My statement has to do more with the way he handed himself on a platter than a broad statement. He made a kneejerk, one line small defense of me that I correctly discerned was bullshit (or perhaps just happened to be right), and I tunneled him to death for it. He's not making the same mistake twice.

"I generally think hiding reads is silly but earlygame, near RVS I can see the intent." <- this sentence looks useless and manipulative to me, as if you wanted to voice an opinion that is just not needed or even pertinent there aka appearing to say something looks more important than the quality of what you say, it looks shallow

Was really just my attempt at giving my thought processes openly, but I think you're also missing that I think it's a slight towntell.

[snipping my quotes here for size]

Your are saying that their interactions was just dumb, but why? Then you are saying that dark horse is right and his fos is correct even tho you dont personnaly scumread massive for it. So youre saying that dark horse thought process if fine and valid for voting massive even if you dont, yourself, fos massive which can be fair

I agreed that Dark Horse's vote seemed to just be trying to spur activity from massive rather than anything blatantly malicious. He's right on several other things as well, such as that massive focusing on "people not backing Dark Horse up" when they're the only ones posting was really fucking dumb.

I

don't,

however, think that massive is scummy nor agree with Dark Horse that he is. Dark Horse pointing out massive having a massive ego and making visibly dumb, ego-driven statements from someone who clearly thinks he's legitimately right doesn't make Dark Horse town, nor massive scum. On the contrary, I think massive's statements are NAI

at worst

, and I think Dark Horse's reaction to them was unnaturally strong, in particular actually scumreading massive and saying he needs to be pressured more. massive's play so far is poor, not scum, and calling for more votes is just hoping for more cases where massive is simply wrong or misinterpreting the air.

i might stretch it a little but i feel like you are being apologetic about your play and passively trying to justify what you do and doesnt do, which is what self-conscious scum does
->"not really sure where else I'd throw my vote right now."
->"Actually I will vote Dark Horse here after all"

This sentence again sounds manipulative to me and again, is about meta and past game

To clarify: I originally didn't want to vote Dark Horse because again, I think massive's posts were bad, and I don't agree with them at all. That doesn't mean that Dark Horse is town, though, and I should vote him even if I don't necessarily agree with the other person voting him as to why.

aristo

boy

tonereads are one thing but what on earth is that

Again i dont like the tone and the word used, you just discredit w/o actually asking aristo why he said that. You also implied that you thought he was town in your last post yet you are quick to 180 on a single post that could be very very well be coming from town, i dont personally scumread aristo's post about the towny stuff, i hate that post

I still townread Aristo, I would have been a lot more serious if I scumread it. He was trying to explain and really didn't word it well. "being town oriented" can mean A) literally "I townread him because he is town or B) (Approximately) His ISO seems to be generally and repeatedly coming from a town perspective. A) is like lol, B) is likely what he meant but it was worded really poorly and I honestly don't see anymore of it in schadd's posts than I would any random player.

Formatting fixed according to player request - Leon

[Prism]

Not all of those really merited responses in a "defense" sense; a lot of those responses are simply giving more background to help with subjective measures.

[Prism]

Of all the people on the table, you are the first to ping me, you also even lowkey discredited my vote before i explained myself, which is again manipulative

Yep, giving you a free answer was a mistake regardless, which is why I regretted it. It influences your answer and changes it, and if you had given the point I made yourself I could view this as a legitimate, likely interpretation to hold as town. By giving it to you I negated anything I could have gotten from you had you thought of it independently, as I would no longer be able to tell. It was 100% stupid and more of a pride move than anything else, demonstrating that I was aware of how I could potentially be perceived over just getting actually useful information.

[Prism]

Reasons I demanded specific quotes from you and was about to do so again; obviously I'm curious and it's a chance to both defend myself and discern something about you, but there's a bit of a history. In Aristophanes' British Monarchy mafia, you as scum justified your scumread on me by vaguely pointing to tone:

Prism looks extremely self-cautious

Having read prism first 4-5 post i think is tone is off and i dont like his reads

I dont like prism posturizing pretty much and i dont want chara from the little i convwrsed with her

Because of this I wanted specifics as soon as possible and you gave a ton of them pretty quickly, so great job.

[Prism]

Oof, I messed up the quote tags there and a lot of my responses, particularly relating to DH/massive, seem like part of CK's:

@Leonshade:

Mind fixing them if you're eager for something to do? My apologies.

Ask and you shall receive - Leon

[Prism]

Did you ever have a boyfriend who would say nice things to you and in the same sentence just tear you down so you felt like only HE was ever going to say nice things about you? Me either but I bet if I did it would be Prism.

Ah, yes, making a joke betting that I would make an emotionally abusive life partner. Very funny.

[Prism]

Rereading Schadd he hasn't really done any convincing of me yet. His part on Dunnstral had potential but until saying you have something before using it typically winds up being NAI.

I'm starting a town club, no cost to join, just a vetting process. Membership is for life.

The first unqualified offers of membership I'm pleased to present to CloudKicker and Aristophanes.

Dunnstral has been extended a qualified, provisional membership, with the possibility of future permanent tenure.

[Prism]

I said your posts on a page were bad egoposts.

On the other hand saying "It's not a joke" in response to implying I would make an abusive romantic partner is ???. I got the point you were trying to make but

1) There were better ways to say it that don't imply I am abusive in my personal life

2) Responding "it's not a joke" to my concern is either missing the point or giving me all the more reason to take offense

I don't think you actually are meaning to accuse me of being abusive in my real-life relationships here. This is mafia and that would be stupid. If that is indeed your real intent and this is not an accident, tell me and I can replace out.

[Prism]

I didn't finish that first paragraph out like I meant to.

All I've said was "I disagree with massive and think his posts were bad/egodriven, but I do think Dark Horse is scummy." That is literally it. It is not extrapolated to every game you play, your innatevalue as a player, whatever.

[Prism]

And I did it thrice-once to start, second to further explain to CK when elaboration was necessary, third just now to you. It's not like I'm returning to it constantly or of my own initiative.

[Prism]

I think he's being honest but I don't think it's really AI.

#174 is rational to feel regardless of what he is, as does most of #178.

[Prism]

I'd rather there not be a hammer until I can get around to this again (~2 hours) and hopefully hear more from schadd & Tarkus

[Prism]

Aristo while I'm doing that get in here and keep doing shit I know you're around

[Prism]

schadd is mafia because this isn't how town!him plays. He has only five posts this game and his posts don't seem to reach anything.

I concur that he hasn't reached much yet at all, and want more from him.

That said the first sentence really bothers me with its vagueness. Schadd played similarly, post-frequency wise, as town with me in Buttersnap early on. It seems plausible that it takes him time to really kick into gear or give good reads. Is there a specific game you have in mind here?

[Prism]

If I had to make a list right now off the top of my head. Ordered town to scum within tiers.

Town club: CK, Aristo, honorary member Dunn
Would rather not lynch right now pile: Tarkus, I guess Massive
No idea but probably wouldn't cry: Creature
Sure I can see myself lynching them: Dark Horse, Schadd

[Prism]

Looking through Butter it looks like he posted more frequently than I thought, so scratch that.

[Prism]

I can definitely see the difference just skimming the first few posts between this game and 712. Really fucking stark contrast.

I'll try and go over some scumschadd games when I have time.

[Prism]

Brother Aristophanes that is not real content

[Prism]

While your membership in the club is permanent, please work to the benefit of the club and remain active

[Prism]

Physically exhausted beyond belief, will review when I can

[Prism]

Everything schadd just posted is somewhat reasonable/believable but not really giving me a strong feeling of "this is town thinking". Similar to Dark Horse I guess but I actually still lean scum on DH.

To answer your question schadd I think you could, which is why I want to dig up some of your scumgames to compare. Aristo for example is completely able to post as scum but for some reason generally chooses not to, making it a pretty big tell even if it occasionally happens as town.

This game is suffering from a real lack of energy.

[Prism]

I've fine giving him more time or for more people to kick into gear. I'm going to try to inject some energy personally but that takes me getting myself ready, and you never know when anyone else will intervene to do the same.

I've always been a fan of longer days and have never really gotten the need to rush.

[Prism]

Probably in prod range-I'll be here starting in about 6 hours.

[Prism]

I'm here, trying to catch up while I can. I've been really down and unmotivated lately so I'm sorry. I don't think it's fair to anyone else, but I especially don't think it's fair to myself, as someone who considers it a failure if I do anything less than my absolute best.

[Prism]

Have skimmed. Going to try to keep it brief to maximize use of the hour. I'm just glad I came back before it was too late even if basically anything I say is going to be near-worthless and just for the sake of saying it at this point.

Tarkus seems okay and not my first choice, doing a more indepth read on him as soon as I finish this first post.

Dark Horse's defense of Schadd on page 13 came across really poorly to me. Relatively weak read, unnaturally fleshed out argumentation and confidence in it. #349 is also more weirdly aggressive bullshit that I doubt he actually believes in.

Creature is a huge ??? still. Continuing to hide reads ("I have a good idea of who to lynch tomorrow if [someone] flipped town") is still weird.

Don't know if I agree with CK's reasoning on Creature in #355 but it seems legitimate and comes from a great place. Will look more into the tell itself to see whether or not I agree later but yeah, I'm really comfortable calling CK town here.

No clue on schadd still. Don't really like most of his reads but his Aristo one is good?

Really no one here I want to vote besides DH and that's not happening.

[Prism]

Tarkus, you here?

[Prism]

Can you name claim?

[Prism]

Would be a really weird role for a BP bodyguard. He's just someone who heckled Mima at a concert then was murdered shortly thereafter. Town-aligned for sure, but that's it.

You sure you're not Uchida, who went out of his way to protect the "real" Mima and survived a blow to the head with a hammer?

[Prism]

Why do you prefer Ari to Creature Tarkus?

[Prism]

He's town

Why do you think so? His tone is okay but that's really all I can see taking a closer look. Meta stuff is weird; acknowledging that your meta is wildly different and making the "different games" argument is really all you can do regardless of what it is. The kicker though is that it's usually not the correct explanation, despite being plausible. The correct explanation is typically different alignment.

[Prism]

I hate to play "outguess the mod" here because I know that's a fucking trap but sometimes you really can't resist. That really sounds like his powers are legitimate but that he's lying and is really Uchida (who to be fair could be town, it's kind of unclear who exactly

do

comprise the town, but Takeshi is almost certainly town while Uchida is pretty likely to be mafia)

[Prism]

I believe his claim unless another protective role steps forward. He's probably telling the truth and I feel like killing off our protective is a big mistake

Okay, but why? This doesn't tell me anything about why he's town or why you believe the claim.

[Prism]

Can get Creature/Schadd I guess but Ari and CK are both likely town.

Ari's dropped off a bit from his earlier activity but he seems to have a valid reason to be gone for now.

Takeshi is a muscular heckler at a concert. He harasses the main character, a pop star, and is later killed by her stalker/rabid fan (Uchida or Rumi, can't remember which). He's a very minor, one-off character likely to be town based off his lack of involvement in the ambiguity of the series alone.

[Prism]

Mafia roles are likely to be one of two possibilities:

1) Uchida/Rumi: Weird creepy stalkers out to kill and protect the "real" Mima, which is just an ideal of the MC pop star.
2) Director/Photographer characters who are the ones who "corrupt" Mima and encourage her to do salacious things, ruining the image of the above

P-Edit: Meant "can get" as in "I understand you here" not "Can lynch"

[Prism]

I don't know this whole townread on Tarkus seems weird to me. None of the posts really stick out to me as particularly town. 309 did at first with being seemingly complex but a second look makes me think he's just coming up with a reason not to change his mind on schadd. He gives DH as a schadd-partner but has basically never really followed up on that as far as I can skim.

[Prism]

This is actually like a 0 chance of flipping elsewhere; the only other potential lynch is Creature who all of me/Dunn/Tarkus need to swap to. I don't really see myself going him over Tarkus so far.

I'm almost certainly going to hammer Tarkus at this rate

Tarkus step up to the plate and sell me on you and your reads, 20 minutes or so on the clock to give us 10 minutes leeway.

[Prism]

Creature really needs to elaborate more on his reads goddamn, there's a lot of lines like "I'm townleaning on a lot of people" but it's unclear who they are and they tend to swap at points (ex. DH/massive swap with CK/Dunnstral at some point for being non-townleans). He really needs to start explaining his reasoning behind those townreads.

[Prism]

I'm not voting Ari.

[Prism]

I'm almost certainly going to hammer Tarkus at this rate

You understand that if tarkus is a town bp bodyguard and he is hit at least once it negates the nolynch

I don't think he's town. He's my second pick behind DH.

[Prism]

His last post is pretty okay actually but ehhhhhh this is tough and why I needed to get off my ass more than an hour before deadline and actually push my main scumread over bullshit

[Prism]

Interactions with massive were all fucked, defense of schadd was really strange to me even though I don't think they're partners or anything, relatively weak indicator that seems to have actual knowledge backing it. #349 was garbage.

[Prism]

And yes Tarkus is right in that he did fight people at the shows, but where bulletproof comes in other than his size is ???. He was literally the first person to die.

On the other hand there's Uchida who A) Views it as his god-given mission to protect the real Mima B) Survives a blow to the head with a hammer C) Is likely mafia

[Prism]

VOTE: Tarkus

If you're town get in here and talk with us for a bit

[Prism]

Yep, sorry.

Anything you want to say before your 13 minutes of life are up?

[Prism]

It's done. I don't care. Forget me. Do you have anything you think can help you win the game?

[Prism]

Like I apologize for being late but we're 20 minutes to deadline and lynching is by far optimal. The only way it evens out mechanically is if A) You are town B) You defend correctly to dodge a bullet and I don't bet enough on A to bet on B

[Prism]

Glad to hear it, will do my best from here on out.

[Prism]

If DH were town I'd probably have to look more on massive, who I haven't really looked much at, and schadd. I don't think DH town->auto Schaddscum or anything like that, the defense just felt more scum protecting town to me than town protecting X.

Schadd would probably be looked at just because I still have hardtown on CK/Ari and that means people I'm "eh" on become a lot more likely scum. Those Ari/CK reads aren't moving.

[Prism]

So I'm almost certain there was scum on tarkus wagon. 5 townies don't suddenly change their mind on who they want to wagon so close to the deadline.

Out of those, cloudkicker was the only one to show a coherent thought process before voting him, while prisms vote seems to be focused on preventing a no lynch. Ergo I think there's def scum in creature/aristo/schadd.

Why is my vote preventing a no lynch being used as a reason to exclude me here?

I showed up an hour to deadline to lynch the already-claimed bulletproof bodyguard, and again Tarkus was my second choice anyway after reading.

(Why you don't try and outguess the mod, I knew not to and got burned anyway)

[Prism]

Like, if that doesn't set off alarm bells for you somewhere, your alarm bells are broken

[Prism]

Really don't like that Dunnstral claim without giving the report for reasons basically listed by CK. I think it's a really silly move that serves more as a distraction than anything useful.

I don't actually scumread it but it did make me wary for a bit because Dunnstral fakeclaimed watcher, without outing the report, then guiltied his counterclaim in Evoker.

[Prism]

That's a pretty good question, but I've also been absent so can't say much.

Do you think Prism guessed Dunnstral was cop?

My claim was literally the first post of the game.

[Prism]

My stance on Dark Horse is well known. His answer about me didn't line up anyway (Really? Scum is 100% of the time just going to let it go to no lynch?)

I'll give the day more time but I don't mind a hammer. I'm not autolynching anyone tomorrow.

[Prism]

I really should have been here earlier and shoved that harder Day 1, because I knew that he was really off.

I don't really think I would have succeeded in getting him lynched anyway, as most people seemed to think he was town regardless, but just kind of a "See what you could have done better" type deal.

I'll reread Schadd during night but just staring at the names he'd be my top pick next to Creature. Creature isn't fantastic but does look better after today.

Dunn/CK/Aristo are the TOWN BOYZ and we're taking that shit to the bank

[Prism]

Dunnstral, my friend, I have wronged you.

You're still on provisional status only.

On this day, on behalf of all of Prism's Town Super Friends, I promote you to the position of full member, with tenure. I'm sorry it took as long as it did.

You are further awarded the Distinguished Service Award for your contributions and continued selfsacrifice to the town. We weren't lynching this guy anytime soon without you. A monument will be erected outside the clubhouse for all to see, and it's a shame you likely won't be there to see it. You will be sorely missed.

Spoiler: Here's the sketch.

[Prism]

1. e4

[Prism]

TOWN SQUAD REPRESENT

TEAR DOWN THE DUNN STATUE HE LIVED PUT MINE UP INSTEAD

Really well played by all of the town. Great job getting set up early and not blowing it through the endgame. Apologies to Creature, who I wasn't able to get a solid read on despite having great reads himself, to massive, and to Tarkus for the mislynch.

Special shoutouts to the T O W N S Q U A D CK/Dunn/Ari who all made themselves obvious town and made this an easy game. A+ work towntelling, A+ check by Dunn, A+ lynch work.

[Prism]

oh but i'm ascetic but also that is a dumb idea anyway

keel prism

As Mima Kirigoe has died, you are no longer Ascetic, starting from Day 3 onwards.

Dead, this was golden.

[Prism]

Also slightly confused-you told the scumteam that their fakeclaim PMs wouldn't flip, but subsequently gave DH's fakeclaim with the flip. Was this just because it wasn't used or?