Open 694: Friends and Enemies (Game Over!)

[jjh927]

Why are you still vanity voting Connor

PEdit: Late to the party

[ConnorJC]

I don't like wave's reads, as their all based on his assumption that Sun is scum. I made this mistake in my newbie game, basically used one read to solve the whole game, and I was dead wrong.

@wave you've been eerily silent on Trans, except to call people scummy for voting him. What are you thoughts on Transcend?

[wavemode]

@jj Because Im not convinced he's town, really.

@Connor well this is the wagon I back at the moment. If we take him down and he claims mason or he dies and flips town then obviously I'll need to re-assess.

[ConnorJC]

@wave you've been eerily silent on Trans, except to call people scummy for voting him. What are you thoughts on Transcend?

[wavemode]

I have already given my thoughts on Transcend. Check my ISO.

[ConnorJC]

Just did, your ISO just says that Trans is playing like a fool. Are you saying he's town because of that?

[GameNBurger]

I meant he grew on me as town. I always assumed "grew on me" was a positive phrase but that's my bad I guess, sorry about fhat.

Wave your intentions are probably not just "I won't tell until everyone tells" and yes you do seem to have some internal motivation that's logically sound but in games like these what matters is what you're getting across, and while you stand to benefit from it, the town does not. All the town gets is not knowing your opinions until a slow user (me) catches up thru 11 walls.

Gotta be honest waves vote evening up sunchilds wagon after I put transcends wagon at 4 just makes me feel ever so much more right about wave transcend being scum buddies

Plus as Connor points out, there's a real noncommittal criticism of Trans, while I don't agree that every criticism necessarily implies a vote should follow, I do think a possible reason for this is friendly scum bussing.

[GameNBurger]

Oh I didn't think anybody would have to wait for you, I was just making fun of wavemode because he apparently needs everyones opinions before he can spill his own.

More like wants my vote I think

Also why is my opinion so important over jh's opinion

Also wavemode maybe just give me an indication that I'm wrong about you right now

[GameNBurger]

You gotta get your lynch through somehow

What is this referring to/ responding to?

[wavemode]

No, look further back than that. I was the first person to vote Trans. Look at why I unvoted him, and my response to bombcat. My thoughts on him have not changed since then.

Sorry, on my phone or else I'd pull this all myself.

[wavemode]

Game because I asked you a direct question? You specifically said you would join the game but were still lurking.

[GameNBurger]

I hate Transcend's play and most (all?) of his reads and logic, but he's not scummy atm.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: ConnorJC

I hope this isn't what you're referring to. There's not much here as to why Trans behavior is more town than scum, and then a naked switch.

Also since when did "first vote credibility" come back in style?

[wavemode]

Alright back on my computer. Yeesh, I forgot how lazy some players are... scroll down like two inches in my ISO and you see this.

I hate Transcend's play and most (all?) of his reads and logic, but he's not scummy atm.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: ConnorJC

I think it's pretty scummy. Do you think all his reads are substantiated in his own head?

If the reads are fabricated, what was his plan? What's the play? To draw a bunch of attention to himself and get lynched?

My thinking has not changed on Trans since I posted this. He has not really struck me as scum and, frankly, I agree with him on his Sun read. So yeah, I consider him town at the moment.

[wavemode]

All the town gets is not knowing your opinions until a slow user (me) catches up thru 11 walls.

I disagree with this sentiment, since I am always been open to questioning if anyone is curious about anything about me. Just ask.

Like, would you rather I just lurk the game away like Sesq? She and I are the same in that we don't post everything that's on our mind all the time. The difference between me and her, though, is that I try to question people in the meantime, since I believe it helps the town. I don't really see anything wrong with that.

[wavemode]

Re: #92... I forgot this before but Connor directly responded to this post! Yet now seems to have forgotten it exists...

I don't know, I still just think you guys are lazy. This is NAI.

[Flubbernugget]

I don't like wave's read on sun

If sun is a mislynches, basing the entirety of his reads around sun's interactions sets him up to look town while doing nothing useful d2.

[Flubbernugget]

Sun is most likely to be scum here, that much is clear. He doesn't really have reads, he just has insults. Yes, we know Transcend is acting like a fool. But give us more than that. (I didn't really bother reading through his meta dive since meta is stupid and just feeds confirmation bias.) His scumread on EchoVision similarly hinges entirely on insulting his play rather than pointing out things that actual scum would be trying to do in a game like this. Furthermore, his pushes on Trans and Echo make perfect sense. In his own post, he expresses confusion as to why we aren't voting Trans. He thought Trans and Echo were safe places to attach non-sheepy votes because he expected to get more support, because of how ridiculously they’re playing ( no offense, guys <3 ).

Even looking orthogonal to this, Sun’s play in general has been awful. Meaningless shade thrown left and right and confirmation bias in the extreme. He also seems to have started the game with some joke posts then lost all sense of humor by page 3, lol. His anger feels forced. If it’s not… lighten up buddy, it’s just a game.

-> Discrediting meta dive strictly for play style, and then saying you shouldn't read off of good/bad play

-> Second paragraph scum reads Sun's bad play

-> Trans and Echo votes are both safe votes yet also make perfect sense

-> Sun trying to get his desired lynch through is framed as confusion as to why people aren't voting for it

Also there's nothing really in here to have to have waited to make a post for

[Flubbernugget]

You gotta get your lynch through somehow

What is this referring to/ responding to?

People keep criticizing Sun's solicitations to join the Transcend wagon and I don't get why.

[ConnorJC]

Alright back on my computer. Yeesh, I forgot how lazy some players are... scroll down like two inches in my ISO and you see this.

I hate Transcend's play and most (all?) of his reads and logic, but he's not scummy atm.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: ConnorJC

I think it's pretty scummy. Do you think all his reads are substantiated in his own head?

If the reads are fabricated, what was his plan? What's the play? To draw a bunch of attention to himself and get lynched?

My thinking has not changed on Trans since I posted this. He has not really struck me as scum and, frankly, I agree with him on his Sun read. So yeah, I consider him town at the moment.

So, just to clarify, you think Trans is town because:
- You can't figure out why he would draw himself attention as scum
- You agree with one of his reads

I've already responded to how attention doesn't mean getting lynched. Additionally, not being able to figure out someone's plan as scum could just make them good scum if they are scum (aka the point is meanigless).
Also, you're almost guaranteed to agree on reads with everybody. I agree with some of Transcend's reads, and he's my top scum right now.

[wavemode]

-> Discrediting meta dive strictly for play style, and then saying you shouldn't read off of good/bad play

-> Second paragraph scum reads Sun's bad play

Yes, I scum read how Sun's entire case against Trans and Echo (besides meta) is based on insulting their play, while he himself is playing quite poorly.

Trans and Echo votes are both safe votes yet also make perfect sense

Uhhh... yes. As scum he considers the two lynchbaitiest players to be safe, justifiable votes that will seem non-sheepy to push for, so it makes perfect sense that he is doing just that.

Sun trying to get his desired lynch through is framed as confusion as to why people aren't voting for it

Maybe confusion was the wrong word... but uncertainty. He spent several posts specifically asking people to explain to him why they weren't helping him on his lynch. Implying that he considers the lynch to be common sense, and that people should naturally be getting behind him. That's not scummy in and of itself, mind you. I simply mention it within the context of everything else.

If sun is a mislynches, basing the entirety of his reads around sun's interactions sets him up to look town while doing nothing useful d2.

This is sort of pointless to say here... we all know that if it's a mislynch then we need to re-assess everything. But I don't believe it will be a mislynch, so why not get a jump on analyzing the game? I might not be alive tomorrow to say all these things...

Also there's nothing really in here to have to have waited to make a post for

Eh, you are free to feel that way, my man. I said I'd wait for some people to answer my questions, and then make a post, and that's what I did. If you still feel that me waiting a few days is some sneaky scum strategy then I don't think arguing about it further is going convince you otherwise...

[wavemode]

So, just to clarify, you think Trans is town because:
- You can't figure out why he would draw himself attention as scum
- You agree with one of his reads

I've already responded to how attention doesn't mean getting lynched. Additionally, not being able to figure out someone's plan as scum could just make them good scum if they are scum (aka the point is meanigless).
Also, you're almost guaranteed to agree on reads with everybody. I agree with some of Transcend's reads, and he's my top scum right now.

You're thinking about all of this wrong.

Like, I don't read trans's posts in and of themselves and say, wow this guy must be town. No, I just

don't

read them and think he's

necessarily

scum, for the reasons I gave. That's what's called null.

Okay, now, I currently believe SunChild is scum. So, assuming he is scum, then someone I'm currently null reading who is leading the lynch on Sun looks pretty good to me. Guess who that is? Trans. If Sun flips scum, Trans looks like TownyMcTownerson. Not confirmed, of course, but he would look pretty good. And that's my current expectation. So... yeah.

[Sesq]

ive made up my mind

VOTE: wavemode

if i havent already

wave was pansyfooting around before told against it by me. could be confbias

rest of play seems contradictory and sun is town

[wavemode]

wave was pansyfooting around before told against it by me

Hm? When did you tell me to stop pansyfooting? Or, what are you referring to here

[GameNBurger]

All the town gets is not knowing your opinions until a slow user (me) catches up thru 11 walls.

I disagree with this sentiment, since I am always been open to questioning if anyone is curious about anything about me. Just ask.

Like, would you rather I just lurk the game away like Sesq? She and I are the same in that we don't post everything that's on our mind all the time. The difference between me and her, though, is that I try to question people in the meantime, since I believe it helps the town. I don't really see anything wrong with that.

You sure are reading a lot into what I was pretty damn sure was simple clear as day sentence

I'm talking about the fact you turned down questions about your reads saying you were waiting for me to comment

I get you want to get a full scope of the players before you give your views but refusing to talk about general reads you have at the moment is just detrimental to town, whittling down the clock.

I never said anywhere you should lurk. Quite the opposite actually, I wish you talked more earlier. I would give you the Benifit of the doubt and say you're just grossly misreading my post but the misdirect to another players behavior just gives me terrible vibes.

[wavemode]

This sun lynch is feeling really,

really

good at this point. There have been lots of votes in this game and not one has gotten this much pushback. Like, game, flubber, connor, why are you so concerned about Sun's well-being? Flubber in particular, you're going WAY more in-depth and putting in WAY more effort to discredit my read on Sun than anything you've done this whole game. Like, if you three are town, you don't really know for a fact that Sun is town, do you? Why fight so hard? I'm free to scumread him if I so please. If you think the real scum is Trans then go argue for that rather than ganging up on me.

Like, it is actually so telling that after one read onto Sun I am suddenly public enemy number one. Lynching correctly on day one is so difficult for this very reason. If I just helped along the trans or echo wagons nobody would look twice at me. Hell, I had a vote on connor this whole game and nobody gave half a flying fuck about it lmao. (That's kind of improving his image in my eyes.) Then suddenly I switch onto sun and, holy shit, here comes the cavalry. Like, me helping you guys kill Trans or Echo, and nobody really saying much about it, and everyone just kind of going along with it? That reeks of Town vs. Town. But this? This is the real shit. There is scum at work here to derail this wagon and it's so obvious. I just hope I live long enough now to laugh about it.

PEdit: ^ oh wow what is thiiiiis. "grossly misreading" "misdirect" "terrible vibes" sweet jesus this is the motherload of newbscum. Word of advice, brother, that was a purely innocent post and I was just explaining my playstyle. You're trying

way

too hard to throw shade there.