Mini Normal 1920 (Game Over)

[mastina]

Formerfish is at L-2!

Thirtieth Votecount

:

(Second Votecount D3

)

Formerfish - 3 (GreyICE, aronagrundy, iDanyboy)

massive - 1 (Fro99er)

Not Voting - 5 (EeveeLution Army, ReplacedIn, Mulch, Formerfish, massive)

With

9

alive, it takes

5

to lynch.

Formerfish is at L-2!

Day 3's deadline is Monday, July 31st, @ 09:00 PM PDT: (expired on 2017-08-01 00:01:10).

V/LA Notices/Mod Notes:

• mastina, the moderator, is V/LA over weekends.
  
• nancy, the backup moderator, is V/LA.
  

[GreyICE]

Aka, player A is a Jailkeeper (No modifiers, normal rules). Player B is a roleblocker, no modifiers, normal rules:

Player A submits: jailkeep player B
Player B submits: roleblock player C

Is player C roleblocked?

<<< Answered in 1933. >>>

[ReplacedIn]

At this point I don't know if it's better for me to fight you all tooth and nail each day phase until we lynch scum like we did yesterday, or to fall on my sword so you guys can get over this tunneling.

So everyone thinks that I spearheaded the lynch on Chick to just save myself for a day?

Fuck it, lynch me and then try to find your asses with both hands town.

This shit needs to stop. If you're town you need to actually realise and acknowledge the fact that GreyICE targeting you N1 with no QT created and him targetting iDannyBoy N2 and having one isn't something we can "ignore" and stating "framed!" doesn't do anything for me at all, nor does "I pushed on Chickadee" which is meaningless given you'd have had no real other alternative and you

not

pushing her if you're partners would make the other look even worse post-flip. So if you're town stop focusing on yourself and focus solely on finding the mafia here and interrogating iDannyboy is not a good start to that.

[mastina]

Mastina/Nancy: What are the rules on dueling roleblockers or roleblocker/jailkeeper interactions for this game? Are we following NAR, or are roleblockers immune to being roleblocked?

Normal Games have specific natural action resolution which this game follows. So in the case of a jailkeeper vs. roleblocker, roleblocker > jailkeeper.

[GreyICE]

Mastina/Nancy: What are the rules on dueling roleblockers or roleblocker/jailkeeper interactions for this game? Are we following NAR, or are roleblockers immune to being roleblocked?

Normal Games have specific natural action resolution which this game follows. So in the case of a jailkeeper vs. roleblocker, roleblocker > jailkeeper.

In light of the fact my action resolved, and that a roleblocked roleblocker would NOT block me, does any townie - like, say, Mulch - have something to claim that might shed some light on this?

[Formerfish]

At this point I don't know if it's better for me to fight you all tooth and nail each day phase until we lynch scum like we did yesterday, or to fall on my sword so you guys can get over this tunneling.

So everyone thinks that I spearheaded the lynch on Chick to just save myself for a day?

Fuck it, lynch me and then try to find your asses with both hands town.

This shit needs to stop. If you're town you need to actually realise and acknowledge the fact that GreyICE targeting you N1 with no QT created and him targetting iDannyBoy N2 and having one isn't something we can "ignore" and stating "framed!" doesn't do anything for me at all, nor does "I pushed on Chickadee" which is meaningless given you'd have had no real other alternative and you

not

pushing her if you're partners would make the other look even worse post-flip. So if you're town stop focusing on yourself and focus solely on finding the mafia here and interrogating iDannyboy is not a good start to that.

Except he's a cop. Not a neighborizer

[Formerfish]

Also, fuck you, lynch me.

[GreyICE]

Also because if there is a town jailkeeper and we're down to one scum, we can clear at least two townies if we coordinate. Guaranteed. A block of 3 cleared townies is unwinnable for the scumteam here

[mastina]

Aka, player A is a Jailkeeper (No modifiers, normal rules). Player B is a roleblocker, no modifiers, normal rules:
Player A submits: jailkeep player B
Player B submits: roleblock player C
Is player C roleblocked?

In this case, no. Player C is not roleblocked. Player A jailkept player B, and player B did not roleblock Player A. Thus, Player A's jailkeep causes the roleblock to fail.

It is only when the roleblocker and jailkeeper block each other that it is necessary for rules to be used. If Player B had roleblocked Player A, then Player A would be roleblocked and Player B would not be jailkept.

[ReplacedIn]

This is pretty good indication to me that Massive/MMM are probably not scum together. Bussing happens, but bussing tends to not happen like this. MMM's reasoning was bad, Massive rightly votes him for it, MMM goes "why me?"

Why me = fry me FYI. That's a good rule of thumb in mafia.

I still like AronaGrundy, although review shows his activity is mostly null. Lots of townie-sounding stuff around votes at non-critical times, not a lot of moving the game forward during decision points. It's a bad combination. I'd be fine with him hanging, although I don't know if it's a scumflip.

Mulch remains psychotic town.

I'm starting to feel a lynch order of:

Fro99er (general principle - this level of not playing mafia is not acceptable, and gosh I wasn't impressed by LMK's 4 scummy posts. Do you really want this guy of all fucking players to be the scum who wins the game? I'd rather give it to literally anyone)
If game still ongoing: Eevee
If game still ongoing: Arona

I don't really agree with the "Massive/MM interaction = not W/W" thing at all? I'm looking at that pretty differently than you. I actually find a lot of Massive's push on MMM and the confidence behind it to be overblown and think it's more of a point towards them being partners than against, we can discuss this more soon, I've got today off work so will be doing a lot of ISO'ing. Your confidence in Eeve being town seems to have dropped, you dislike her recent interaction with me too?

[Formerfish]

I am nothing but a fucking distraction at this point. Grey is never going to believe he is wrong here and I would love to know what his moves are after I flip town, because it's going to happen.

How many people pointed out there was no reason to make the play I did yesterday. Grey wants everyone to look at the most likely scenario but ignores all the easy ones that explain my play.

So here we are. Fuck all of you. Lynch me.

[ReplacedIn]

Except he's a cop. Not a neighborizer

Difference is negligible when it comes to the point I was making.

Also, fuck you, lynch me.

You're being childish. If you're town actually fucking devote time to reread the game and state your reads on players.

[Fro99er]

I am nothing but a fucking distraction at this point. Grey is never going to believe he is wrong here and I would love to know what his moves are after I flip town, because it's going to happen.

How many people pointed out there was no reason to make the play I did yesterday. Grey wants everyone to look at the most likely scenario but ignores all the easy ones that explain my play.

So here we are. Fuck all of you. Lynch me.

^this is exactly how I play when I get incorrectly guiltied. Case in point, this game: viewtopic.php?p=8922591

[Fro99er]

I really think FF is town here guys

[Fro99er]

scum doesn't want to be lynched here. Scum can't afford to go 2 down at this juncture. There's no way FF is scum here.

[ReplacedIn]

Yeah, if we've got a jailkeeper them claiming today and us lynching mafia is pretty much a locked win.

@Frogger - Your reads on both Massive & Arona seem to be based entirely around the world of FF being town, really don't understand the sheer level of confidence behind you having that read at the moment; there's parts of his reaction towards this entire event that read too far to be mafia and there's a small post from Chickadee herself that feels like he could be town but I'm not grabbing your confidence here so explain it to me in more detail. Frankly you'd have to acknowledge the odds of mafia having exactly an odd night roleblocker (or a similar role) and having targeted GI N1 are lower than the odds of FF just being mafia. So you're really really really going to have to elaborate this in real detail for me. Also, if FF's actually mafia how does that effect your reads on Arona/Massive etc?

[Formerfish]

Except he's a cop. Not a neighborizer

Difference is negligible when it comes to the point I was making.

Also, fuck you, lynch me.

You're being childish. If you're town actually fucking devote time to reread the game and state your reads on players.

Hey Dr. Phil, go psychoanalyze someone else.

Difference is a bit more than that, but you keep telling that story. And why the fuck am I going to devote my time to explain to a bunch people who dont give a fuck to look below surface value on anything.

These fucks act like they have never seen a set of roles that directly interact with each other for ways to make this game harder. Have a tracker? Throw in a ninja. Got a Cop? Throw in a Godfather, or a Miller. I mean for fucks sake that is the exact thing those roles are made to do. If all we do is follow the cop then fuck this game.

[GreyICE]

How many people pointed out there was no reason to make the play I did yesterday. Grey wants everyone to look at the most likely scenario but ignores all the easy ones that explain my play.

I mean yes, that's how mafia is supposed to work. I get a read on you, you deflect. I try to build a wagon, you dissemble. You shoot me at night. You explain things away.

I like to think that was I a VT and were I trying my hardest, I could have gotten you lynched day 1. Although I might have swung it onto MMM rather than let others push that lynch. But I'm not a VT, and thus I don't need to explain your play, to build a case, to try my damnedest. All I have to do is tell people what's in my inbox. This is the drawback of PR fests.

I happen to think this setup is crap too, for the record, because I'd have rather locked horns with you a different way. I play to win, not to win elegantly.

[Formerfish]

And im going to flip town man. Thats one of the reasons I just want this to be fucking over for me. You have dug your heels in and are not going to budge. I hope your scum and thats your plan all along, because if youre not then this is going to be the game that fucks you up for a bit.

[Fro99er]

If I was scum I'd be damn sure to be as careful as hell, I agree.

But nah, I'm taking the contrarian view, the less popular view, and sticking my neck out there as scum, and being lazy about it. Got it.

Well that's a convincing argument as to how you're not scum. But lets run with it. Out of curiosity, suppose there was a player who had made all of four posts in a game, which were quite scummy. And then he flaked. His replacement replaced in and didn't post a single game-relevant thing over the course of day 2. We then lynched a cop guilty day 3 while this player contributed nothing of value. The guilty flipped scum, giving us two dead scum going into day 4.

Now approximately speaking, what are the odds of our hypothetical sir-lurksalot surviving through LyLo? Roughly speaking? Just toss a number out there, what's the odds that no one lynches the lowest, worst-content slot in the entire game when the town has lynches to spare?

I can't speak for my predecessor. I can speak for myself. Mastina posted on June 29th that she had a replacement for LMK. I actually PMd her the 28th. The game went into fucking night phase and came out of it while I was on July 4th vacation. I FUCKING WASNT HERE on Day 2. Period. I didn't read the game *before* telling mastina I'd replace in, because there was no guarantee I'd replace in and I'm not going to sit here and read a 55 page game I'm not involved in. So if you're painting me as some lurksack, you're wrong as hell. You've never fucking played with me. I'm one of the most high volume posters on site, and I can damn well tell you I'm part of the reason mods are putting in posting restrictions for posting too much. I'm here now, and I'm not going anywhere anytime soon. So painting me as a lurksack who didn't do anything D2 is a bullshit argument, because I fucking was on vacation over a national holiday.

If you're saying I'm contributing nothing of value today, then I can't help you.

[Formerfish]

You dont have a guilty, you have an absence of anything. If you had a guilty then id be hung already.

You want that absence to be something its not and you cant pull your head out of your ass long enough to see that.

Why does Aron ask you 3 minutes into the day phase what you did? Is there anyway in hell you dont say what you did in your first post after being a claimed cop on day 2?

[ReplacedIn]

Hey Dr. Phil, go psychoanalyze someone else.

Difference is a bit more than that, but you keep telling that story. And why the fuck am I going to devote my time to explain to a bunch people who dont give a fuck to look below surface value on anything.

These fucks act like they have never seen a set of roles that directly interact with each other for ways to make this game harder. Have a tracker? Throw in a ninja. Got a Cop? Throw in a Godfather, or a Miller. I mean for fucks sake that is the exact thing those roles are made to do. If all we do is follow the cop then fuck this game.

Difference really isn't any more than that, GI knows either a) Player is town or b) Player is mafia or he was roleblocked, he got a) on DannyBoy, he got b) on you, this means either you're mafia or mafia blocked him N1 and not N2, is that possible? Sure. Is it the more likely situation? Not really.

Am I willing to entertain that it's happened here? Yes? I'm here actually y'know reading your posts, so if you're town the best thing you can do is focus on scumhunting and actually stating reads rather than just turning this into a feud with GI. I've understood your point re; Arona, would like your thoughts on other players.

[Formerfish]

(This is to Grey about Aron)
He's fucking posturing, and your bullshit is allowing him to.

My death and town flip almost assuredly means you die tomorrow. You good with that as town?

[Fro99er]

Yeah, if we've got a jailkeeper them claiming today and us lynching mafia is pretty much a locked win.

@Frogger - Your reads on both Massive & Arona seem to be based entirely around the world of FF being town, really don't understand the sheer level of confidence behind you having that read at the moment; there's parts of his reaction towards this entire event that read too far to be mafia and there's a small post from Chickadee herself that feels like he could be town but I'm not grabbing your confidence here so explain it to me in more detail. Frankly you'd have to acknowledge the odds of mafia having exactly an odd night roleblocker (or a similar role) and having targeted GI N1 are lower than the odds of FF just being mafia. So you're really really really going to have to elaborate this in real detail for me. Also, if FF's actually mafia how does that effect your reads on Arona/Massive etc?

No, my reads on Arona and Massive are based off Chick's flip and my intuition that FF is town.

I've been in FF's position before. This is EXACTLY how I reacted. I got guiltied as scum before and gave the fuck up, just like Chickadee did.

It's far more natural for town to be incredulous about a wrongful guilty on them.

And I have no knowledge of the setup. It could be odd/nonconsec roleblocker. It could be town rolestopper or jailkeeper. I'm just showing reasons why FF isn't lock scum.

[Formerfish]

I am trying, but he is making it very easy for them to hide. The post from Aron which ive pointed out twice now is scummy as fuck. But no one wants to talk about that and half the list isnt going to listen to me until I am dead, and fuck that shit.