Mini Normal 1920 (Game Over)

[Fro99er]

hi guys, I'm on V/LA for the 4th -- I'll be back on Thursday!

[Fro99er]

@Mod V/LA until Thursday

<<< This was acknowledged. >>>

[Fro99er]

Hey y'all I'm here. You lynched while I was on V/LA. Going to catch up now.

[Fro99er]

Off of my having skimmed

most

of the game, here's what I feel so far (I don't have a handle yet on replacements and such, just that I replaced MMM, so mind the names if they're wrong):
LUV town
Mulch scum
Eevee Town

I don't have my notes in front of me right now, so more to come later.

Mulch, you voted me based off my read list, know that I have not fully caught up yet? Not a very towny move. I promise to ISO you a bit when I have properly caught up though to get a better look at you one way or the other. However, you understand that I can't just take your word on this being your best towny game. It just seems to me that you're doing a lot of awfully anti-town things for this being your best towny game.

Mulch is town. That's not a scum-scum interaction. A cross-bus would Chick would more likely be calling Mulch scummy than anti-town and "not towny" and the promise to come back and look at you is so fake.

[Fro99er]

FF is prob town for pushing the Chick lynch, while Chick was just half-assed about the FF lynch.

If it was two caught scum, I'd expect both to be either bussing hard, or half-assing votes on each other once two scum guilties were outed.

[Fro99er]

Twenty-ninth Votecount

:

(First Votecount D3

)

Formerfish - 2 (GreyICE, aronagrundy)

Not Voting - 7 (EeveeLution Army, Fro99er, ReplacedIn, iDanyboy, Mulch, Formerfish, massive)

arona why are you voting FF?

[Fro99er]

Doesn't yours just mean chick isn't a vt tho

Mulch, chick claimed vt

realizes chick isn't a VT despite claiming VT, yet pushes for a FF lynch because...

Ok here's the thing. We have two claimed guilties. One of them is getting lynched.

I refuse to have the WIFOM claim bullshit going on with a claimed cop last for more than this day. We figure out if the CLAIMED COP is lying today

Makes no sense. What does figuring anything out about the claimed cop have to do with this. What about the macho Neapolitan? This isn't even a reason to go for FF, yet today arona is back on the FF train after actively trying to push for former for reasons that aren't even reasons.

Just conveniently ignores the whole Chick got caught claiming VT, yet can't be VT thing to push the other guilty for a worse reason.

VOTE: Arona

[Fro99er]

if you think they're both lying why does it matter lmao

oh my god mulch you just said that they're both scum

frustrated scum is frustrated that mulchy is considering that the Chick guilty is a solid guilty, while the FF guilty could have a roleblock.

1618 Arona.

what happens if chick flips town?

Pointless.

If chick is the lynch that's fine tbh

This day needs to end. Any objections to me hammering?

Then is suddenly half baked about a chick lynch and asks to hammer when it's inevitable

[Fro99er]

I doubt GI is scum here faking a guilty on FF though.

If he's scum he just says he was roleblocked as loyal and fakes a guilty, but then his doubt about being roleblocked today just to say he successfully targeted iDanyboy today makes no sense if he's continuing on a scum gambit. He'd just reinforce he was roleblocked D1, but now he's considering he might not have been. It's too paranoia-ish to be scum.

Maybe scum has an odd-night or non-consecutive roleblocker?

[Fro99er]

massive is scum too

Pushes MMM, but then says "they've given enough" of chicks slot. If you think they are scum, push that harder. Convince others. Do something.

Then the guilty on Chick happens and suddenly no vote, but starts asking LUV if he breadcrumbed and "WIFOM" in my head.

Gonna vote FF because I feel like I know what GreyICE gambits look like but I also feel like there's gotta still be other things to do today.

never follows up on this.

There's no desire from massive to find scum, period.

VOTE: massive

[Fro99er]

lol that's all it took?

GI -- talk to me about FF vs. Chick interaction. I don't see that as scum v scum.

pedit: hi arona

[Fro99er]

@arona -- and you're just willing to go along with the result instead of figure out if the result is valid or not?

how was FF flailing? Just because you townread GI means he's got a confirmed guilty? No. Chick was far more a confirmed guilty. Claimed VT, LUV's result said not VT. So unless you thought LUV was scum gambiting to get Chick lynched, then you fail there. And that wasn't the push you made.

[Fro99er]

arona thoughts on massive please.

[Fro99er]

I just see massive and arona yelling at each other about activity, but no attempt to actually sort each other.

[Fro99er]

also why the hell are we claiming that formerfish is town for pushing chickadee? What else was he supposed to do? The fact that luv guiltied her before formerfish said anything about her negates any talk of intiative tbh

It's not that he pushed for her. It's the *way* he pushed for her. It was different. He pushed hard. Chickadee half assed voted FF. A scum scum interaction is almost always either two half hearted ones because they both got guiltied, or at that point you try to bus the shit out of each other.

FF pushed Uzi to get on chick, even after Uzi said he knew chick was scum yet hadn't voted her. FF could have spun wifom, could have tried to propose things around setup spec. Nope, he went for Chick.

Chick folded and just plopped a vote on FF.

And massive was like "WIFOM I'm confused"

[Fro99er]

@arona -- and you're just willing to go along with the result instead of figure out if the result is valid or not?

how was FF flailing? Just because you townread GI means he's got a confirmed guilty? No. Chick was far more a confirmed guilty. Claimed VT, LUV's result said not VT. So unless you thought LUV was scum gambiting to get Chick lynched, then you fail there. And that wasn't the push you made.

how do you suggest figuring it out?

I've given some thoughts. Maybe scum have an odd-night roleblocker, or a non-consecutive one. Maybe town has a rolestopper (wouldn't be impossible given we have a confirmed macho role and a claimed ascetic) and chose to rolestop FF for whatever reason (if this is the case, do NOT out this). Maybe GI is scum (again, this is highly unlikely).

But you're putting no thought into this and just saying "FF flailed" and "there's a guilty"

[Fro99er]

Also I null read massive. I still have a gut feeling about scum lurking, but his posts do seem genuine

that's it?

Are you even going to try?

[Fro99er]

Really? Because FF pushing to lynch MMM without a claim and then immediately shutting up/backing down with minimal wagon organizing was one of the things that triggered my "this is a bus" sensors that lead directly to the investigation.

Where was this?

[Fro99er]

I've given some thoughts. Maybe scum have an odd-night roleblocker, or a non-consecutive one. Maybe town has a rolestopper (wouldn't be impossible given we have a confirmed macho role and a claimed ascetic) and chose to rolestop FF for whatever reason (if this is the case, do NOT out this). Maybe GI is scum (again, this is highly unlikely).

Town Jailkeeper also possible (also should NOT out).

[Fro99er]

tbh town JK makes the most sense given macho. Or a rolestopper, but I'm not sure why a town rolestopper would target FF unless they strongly townread them.

[Fro99er]

If I was scum I'd be damn sure to be as careful as hell, I agree.

But nah, I'm taking the contrarian view, the less popular view, and sticking my neck out there as scum, and being lazy about it. Got it.

[Fro99er]

Tell me why arona is town. Because he's riding your coattails to an FF lynch? Because he's putting in no effort in sorting massive? Because he's sat there and vote parked all game?

[Fro99er]

I am nothing but a fucking distraction at this point. Grey is never going to believe he is wrong here and I would love to know what his moves are after I flip town, because it's going to happen.

How many people pointed out there was no reason to make the play I did yesterday. Grey wants everyone to look at the most likely scenario but ignores all the easy ones that explain my play.

So here we are. Fuck all of you. Lynch me.

^this is exactly how I play when I get incorrectly guiltied. Case in point, this game: viewtopic.php?p=8922591

[Fro99er]

I really think FF is town here guys

[Fro99er]

scum doesn't want to be lynched here. Scum can't afford to go 2 down at this juncture. There's no way FF is scum here.

[Fro99er]

If I was scum I'd be damn sure to be as careful as hell, I agree.

But nah, I'm taking the contrarian view, the less popular view, and sticking my neck out there as scum, and being lazy about it. Got it.

Well that's a convincing argument as to how you're not scum. But lets run with it. Out of curiosity, suppose there was a player who had made all of four posts in a game, which were quite scummy. And then he flaked. His replacement replaced in and didn't post a single game-relevant thing over the course of day 2. We then lynched a cop guilty day 3 while this player contributed nothing of value. The guilty flipped scum, giving us two dead scum going into day 4.

Now approximately speaking, what are the odds of our hypothetical sir-lurksalot surviving through LyLo? Roughly speaking? Just toss a number out there, what's the odds that no one lynches the lowest, worst-content slot in the entire game when the town has lynches to spare?

I can't speak for my predecessor. I can speak for myself. Mastina posted on June 29th that she had a replacement for LMK. I actually PMd her the 28th. The game went into fucking night phase and came out of it while I was on July 4th vacation. I FUCKING WASNT HERE on Day 2. Period. I didn't read the game *before* telling mastina I'd replace in, because there was no guarantee I'd replace in and I'm not going to sit here and read a 55 page game I'm not involved in. So if you're painting me as some lurksack, you're wrong as hell. You've never fucking played with me. I'm one of the most high volume posters on site, and I can damn well tell you I'm part of the reason mods are putting in posting restrictions for posting too much. I'm here now, and I'm not going anywhere anytime soon. So painting me as a lurksack who didn't do anything D2 is a bullshit argument, because I fucking was on vacation over a national holiday.

If you're saying I'm contributing nothing of value today, then I can't help you.

[Fro99er]

Yeah, if we've got a jailkeeper them claiming today and us lynching mafia is pretty much a locked win.

@Frogger - Your reads on both Massive & Arona seem to be based entirely around the world of FF being town, really don't understand the sheer level of confidence behind you having that read at the moment; there's parts of his reaction towards this entire event that read too far to be mafia and there's a small post from Chickadee herself that feels like he could be town but I'm not grabbing your confidence here so explain it to me in more detail. Frankly you'd have to acknowledge the odds of mafia having exactly an odd night roleblocker (or a similar role) and having targeted GI N1 are lower than the odds of FF just being mafia. So you're really really really going to have to elaborate this in real detail for me. Also, if FF's actually mafia how does that effect your reads on Arona/Massive etc?

No, my reads on Arona and Massive are based off Chick's flip and my intuition that FF is town.

I've been in FF's position before. This is EXACTLY how I reacted. I got guiltied as scum before and gave the fuck up, just like Chickadee did.

It's far more natural for town to be incredulous about a wrongful guilty on them.

And I have no knowledge of the setup. It could be odd/nonconsec roleblocker. It could be town rolestopper or jailkeeper. I'm just showing reasons why FF isn't lock scum.

[Fro99er]

I'll agree if there's a town jailkeeper they should out. But not a town rolestopper.

Macho and ascetic would point to at least one of those roles existing, with the presence of a scum blocker to prevent follow the cop.

[Fro99er]

So again, if FF's scum here how does that change your reads on them?

If FF is scum, I'll reevaluate those slots like I always do. I play this game on preflips. Always have, always will. Need examples I can give you a million. I've been very right (see my best town performance in MAFIACEPTOIN) and it was me pushing these preflips. I've been very wrong. But we also have a scum flip to work with which gives extra confidence. Add in that chickadee stuff and it's pretty clear both are scum.

If you ignore FF"s alignment entirely what's your reads on the playerlist entirely?

Town:
iDanyboy, Grey, FF, Mulch

lean town:
you

null:
eevee

scum:
massive, arona

[Fro99er]

Town rolestopper is such a high level of negative utility that I would hope that such a player would no-action every single night.

how is a town rolestopper neg utility?

It's a protective.

[Fro99er]

VOTE: arona

[Fro99er]

FF I'd rather vote massive

[Fro99er]

alright i have some explaining to do

Lucy, you got some 'splainin' to do!

[Fro99er]

UNVOTE:

[Fro99er]

if there's a RB then FF also isn't confirmed scum.

[Fro99er]

I'm VT

[Fro99er]

i kind of feel bad because the last game i completed had all the PRs claim spontaneously for shits and gigs (cough frogger cough) but the wifom was making my head hurt

I know nothing of what you speak of

[Fro99er]

So, am I confirmed town?

pretty much

are you going to claim or not? Because I want to say something to eevee, but I don't want to say it without knowing what you're going to do.

[Fro99er]

I want to bite my frog tongue a bit until Mulch confirms if they are claiming or not. Because I don't want to lead eevee one way or the other with what I want to ask them.

[Fro99er]

Why? Who's going to jump on my lynch at this point? Eevee? Frogger? Mulch? Let it sit and see what happens.

Ain't gonna be me dude

[Fro99er]

VOTE: Massive

@Eevee -- why didn't you vote your highest scumread, massive, as you state.

pedit: hi FF

[Fro99er]

Also retract my statement of Frogger-Massive being unlikely as a pairing, Froggers "want to question Eeve after Mulch claims" rather than voting Massive, his strongest scum read at a time where the claims and results should increase the strength of that read feels...ugly.

No fuck you, I was always voting massive. You yourself said we were waiting for the massive claim. You trying to put this on me is actually pretty sketch because I was holding my vote to wait for the mass claim AS WAS YOUR FUCKING WISH

[Fro99er]

mulch claim

I'm so pissed I can't get M names straight

[Fro99er]

Loyal Cop, Neapolitan, Weak Doctor, Ascetic v Goon + 2??? is the setup barring iDanny claiming a PR which I don't think he will.

So yeah, all of [Arona/GI/Mulch/iDanny] are confirmed town officially.

Really think Massive is the play.

THIS IS SO FUCKING MISLEADING

Loyal cop, weak doc, macho Neapolitan vs ascetic goon goon is balanced too

holy fuck RI might be fucking scum

UNVOTE:

[Fro99er]

would make sense given the investigatives, they all get a no result on RI

macho can't be protected by doc

[Fro99er]

Frogger, your sort of sounding logical right now which gives me pause because I know you said in Large Normal 203 that you take great pride in your scumgame. In that game, you were sorta OMGUSey and angry and had huge passion, which sort of got you scumread, but it feels like your making more of an effort to seem solvey.

What do you think of this?

Because the only fucking people who have scumread me are GI and RI and that's fucking it. And GI is basically conftown and now RI is pulling shit asking people to wait for a massclaim now telling me I'm fucking scum.

[Fro99er]

I'M FUCKING ANSEWRING MUCLH JESUS FUCK GIVE ME A MINUTE

[Fro99er]

I'M FUCKING ANSEWRING MUCLH JESUS FUCK GIVE ME A MINUTE

Feels a little fake, idk

Whatever.

[Fro99er]

You realise in the setup you're proposing that FF would have to be mafia, right?

Yes, obviously

that's why I unvoted

[Fro99er]

Your over-reaction here is pretty mind-boggling. Like, not even remotely understanding how you can be frustrated here.

You've never fucking played with me, obviously

[Fro99er]

Was waiting on Massives claim to talk about the setup speculation completely, not to vote. If you'd actually read how the day has played out I'd voted him before he actually claimed. And by "Put this on you", you mean not entirely rule out Massive-You being a pairing which I'd previously done so? The whole "Going to ask Eeve a question" felt like a set up to vote there over massive, obviously not what you've done but reading it at the time was something that I'd contemplated.

Not a setup, it's me trying to tie eevee to either massive or FF based of their reaction to my Q but alls lost now.

I BASE my game off tying people together. That's how I won best town in MAFIACEPTION. I drove that town because I tied titus to pepto.

yeah I preflip associate. I self-meta. That's my fucking game and I don't give a fuck if you all think it's bad. It works for me.

[Fro99er]

I self meta every game

[Fro99er]

Every. Fucking. Game.

I actually use it as a scumhunting tool, and mulch is definitely town for how they talked about it.

[Fro99er]

@Mulch examples

When I self meta and people accuse me of being scum for it, they are almost always scum:
viewtopic.php?p=7299362#p7299362 (BBT called me out for self-meta/WIFOM...BBT was scum)
viewtopic.php?p=7185807#p7185807 (Aero calls me out for self-meta...Aero was scum)
viewtopic.php?p=7233708#p7233708 (Sakura calls me out for self-meta...Sakura was scum)
viewtopic.php?p=7387205#p7387205 (Prozac calls out self-meta...Prozac was scum)
viewtopic.php?p=7405616#p7405616 (Titus calls me out for self-meta...Titus was scum)
viewtopic.php?p=7338212#p7338212 (Fire calls me out for self-meta...Fire was scum)
viewtopic.php?f=84&t=70624 (my own scumbuddy called me out on it)
viewtopic.php?p=8922516#p8922516 (Alisae...MY OWN SITE BFF calls me out for self-meta....Alisae was scum. I hadn't used the trick on Ali yet at that time)
this was ME as scum calling someone else on the WIFOM/Self-meta (viewtopic.php?p=6995964#p6995964) ... see...I even did my own scumtell in my very first scum game.

when I self meta and people try to understand what i'm doing, they are almost always town.
here: viewtopic.php?p=7262038#p7262038 (not called out on it)
here: viewtopic.php?p=7135564#p7135564 (not called out for it)
You here -- you're trying to figure out what the deal is, not just accuse me of being scum for it.

And usually I'm not called out for it by town. But if they do, it's in an analytical way, like you're doing here, which is why my town sample size is so small. My hypothesis is that it's so easy for scum to latch on to and call it out as scummy, whereas town just take it as part of the analysis.

I obviously can't use the self-meta tell with another player more than once, because then they know what's up. But nobody in this game I have I used it with before.

[Fro99er]

how he's talked about self-meta is not one of the reasons though.

Based off my experiences, yes it is.

[Fro99er]

I think making a case by tying X to Y pre-flip is bad play.

Then you're never going to like playing with me.

[Fro99er]

but you know...call me out for bad play

[Fro99er]

People telling me I use "bad play" happens all the fucking time, but it's how I play, and it works.

DGAF what you think.

[Fro99er]

People telling me I use "bad play" happens all the fucking time, but it's how I play, and it works.

DGAF what you think.

@RI

[Fro99er]

Going to bed. Be happy. This is my retirement game.

I'm done with this site for so many reasons.

Mulch you're fantastic. I've enjoyed every game I've played with you.

[Fro99er]

Arona is awesome too

[Fro99er]

I haven't seen ornplayed with anyone else soni can't comment on the rest of you